Transcript: Financial Plan Warns of Tax Hikes - Committee of the Whole Meeting - Wednesday, March 4, 2026 - 9:30 a.m. - City of Richmond Hill | Summary 99

Financial Plan Warns of Tax Hikes - Committee of the Whole Meeting - Wednesday, March 4, 2026 - 9:30 a.m. - City of Richmond Hill

Yeah. Good morning everybody. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Welcome to everybody in chambers and watching us online. I am councelor Karen Silvas from Ward 5. I am currently uh your chair for committee of the whole meetings. Welcome again. Um do we have any council announcements? Mayor West. Uh thank you very much. Uh first of all, happy Purum for all those that are celebrating. Uh it's a nice time of the year for a a celebration like that. Uh I also wanted to just give a shout out to the David Suzuki Foundation and on the weekend we had uh both Dr. David Suzuki and Dr. Tara Cullis. Um first of all at the Richmond Hill Center for the Performing Arts um uh performing a little show that they put together called uh what you wouldn't do for love. And it was really actually quite an an interesting uh show. But on Saturday, they also hosted a get together with a number of environmental leaders in Richmond Hill. Uh, and I got to tell you, I was really, really, really proud to see so many people um speaking so highly of the work that is being done here in Richmond Hill. Not all of it that we're doing, but but uh environmental groups as well and the work that the city of Richmond Hill is doing. Um, I I can tell you I was talking to Dr. Suzuki for a bit and and he seemed quite impressed with the uh the work that we're doing and and nothing makes me more proud to know that we're being good um in stewards of our natural environment and coming from somebody like him uh that was quite uh quite the compliment. So I was really pleased to see that. Uh and actually I don't think these are necessarily related but um the Richmond Hill Fire and Emergency Services are going to be highlighted on the nature of things tomorrow night. Uh you can watch that on I think it's on CBC GEM at 9:00 on March the 5th and it's a little segment about decisionmaking and um and the decision making that you need to go through in times uh of crisis and so on that uh the firefighters would be would be doing. So I'd encourage everybody to watch that. I'm I'm not available at that time but I will be uh pvring it. So um anyway that that's it for me. Thanks very much. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Is there anybody else on council? And we have a full compleiment of council today here in person in council chambers. I would also just like to say um Sam to everybody celebrating the wonderful um Jewish holiday of Purim and also to all those celebrating happy Holly. Have a wonderful celebratory time. Okay. Are there any introduction of emergency or timesensitive matters? Seeing none, so I'd like to move for the adoption of the agenda. Member of council, please. Thank you, councelor Davidson. Are there any disclosures of pecuniary interest and the Oh, I'm sorry. I always forget that. Could we could we vote on that, please? Adoption of the agenda passes unanimously. Thank you. um disclosures of pecuniary interest and the general nature thereof. Seeing none, are there any um items requiring separate discussion other than those that are already bolded on our papers that show that they will be discussed? Councelor tree, I won't extract 11.6 if it's not on agenda. Oh, it's there. It's on the agenda. Thank you so much. Good. Anybody? Okay, seeing none. So, we have the agenda items on file. We have 11.1, 11.2, 11.3, 11.4, and 11.5, and 11.7. Correct, Mr. Clerk? Thank you. Okay. Um, could I have someone? Yeah, could I have someone move? Thank you. Uh, Deputy Mayor Godwin Chan, thank you. Has moved that. Um members of council, how do you vote? Thank you. All approved unanimously. Thank you. Okay. So now we can move on to the business of the day. There are no public hearings and we have two presentations. The first presentation is a presentation by Daryl Gray, director education and training and Dr. Victoria Konowski, senior manager, government and community relations Pel York wersheds TRCA regarding an update on TRCA projects and programs in Richmond Hill. And please note this is a 20inut presentation to committee. Welcome. Please step forward. You have the floor for 20 minutes. Great. Thank you. And uh good morning. Uh morning. So, apologies. Victoria has come down with the flu and is not feeling well. So, unfortunately, you're stuck with me this morning and get the B team. So, I'll do the best I can to walk through the various slides. Uh, it's a real pleasure to be here in the city of Richmond Hill um at the uh sorry, I just make sure I get this um at the confluence of or the headarters of three of our uh nine wersheds. So, I'll talk a little bit about the conservation authority. walk through some of the programs that we have in partnership with the city of Richmond Hill and talk a little about some of our outdoor programs in the northern portion of your city that have a particular impact on the communities that we serve together. So, uh, as many of you know, uh, we are, uh, a conservation authority enabled under provincial legislation. Um, we're one of 36 across Ontario. As I said, we have nine watersheds that we're tasked with managing on behalf of the residents of the of the communities of the GTA. Uh, Richmond Hill is in the headarters of three. um Humber, the Rouge, and the Dawn. And it's an important part that informs our work together as uh partners in conservation. The funding for conservation authorities and TRC in particular comes from a mix of municipal funding primarily through our regional partners in the city of Toronto as well as other partnership programs like the ones we have with the city, grants, and other sources of re revenue such as user fees. We our budget is in and around $194 million if that helps give you some scale. Um so some of the projects and programs in uh Richmond Hill obviously the first one we want to highlight is the partnership for the work with uh the city at David Dunlop uh park. Um this is an important part of the broader agenda related to restoration activities within the city is helping improve the e ecological integrity of our communities and the the natural spaces that are within those. You'll see some great statistics in there in terms of some of the work we've done together with city and city staff and woodland restoration uh the creation of new woodlands. some of the uh new meadow creation that's taking place now. Um as well as continue to design and plan for the next phase of our work together over the next four years. Obviously, we know that that particular piece of land within the heart of Richmond Hill is an important part of your city and what makes it so special and so unique. So, we're pleased to be part of that partnership project with you. Uh the next couple of slides will touch on some of the challenges we face with u restoration and invasives management. Obviously, uh, fragmitees is a is a a real threat to our wetlands and our, uh, storm water ponds and other parts of our wersheds. So, we've been taking an active approach to managing that, uh, working closely with the city and other partners to do fragmmones removal or managing some of the interventions that do take place within some of those sensitive ecosystems that we're responsible for managing, particularly in the headarters where we're seeing some of the degradation of those features. We've uh, managed 1.4 four hectares of fragmatite removals which ties into our broader species in invasive species management program. Two key projects that we're working with the city on is the Taparoski stream restoration project which is really looking at how we make sure that that resto we restore some of the natural function of that particular reach of the wershed and looking at the headwaters of the rouge and looking at some of the areas what are particularly degraded um some of which as a result of historic land management practices uh and and uh restoring some of that that uh natural function that had been there prior to um uh use for agriculture and other types of um practice. A big part of that throughout our wersheds and in Richmond Hill in particular is management of hazard trees. We're seeing more and more and this is a challenge we're facing continuously is the dieback of trees as they reach the end of the natural life cycle or as invasive species take over. Um so that's a a fairly large part of our work to make sure that our communities are safe when they're accessing these natural spaces. From the erosion risk management perspective, we're seeing this as a particular challenge given the changing climate that we're living in these days and the types of uh weather features that are rolling through our city region on a more frequent basis. Uh higher, more frequent storms are impacting some of those local uh reaches of our wersheds. So, we're having to do more of that erosion risk management uh work to protect uh those wersheds, but also protect our communities and the infrastructure. So there's a number of those projects that are underway right now including German Mills Creek stream erosion uh which is an important one for us to protect some municipal assets and then another one in the Dawnhead East channel improvements which is primarily coming up in the next couple of years as funding becomes available to do restoration and erosion risk management on a storm water management pond feature as well as the outlet and tributary around that. Um you'll see on the construction side of the South Richvail sanitary lateral protection project a lot of what we do is work closely with other levels of government make sure that their infrastructure is protected. So sewers, water lines, uh gas lines, etc. which uh do sometimes become under threat because of erosion. One of the areas where Richmond Hill has been a particular leader is planning for natural heritage and natural areas working. We've been always been really pleased to work with the city on finding ways to lean into some of our joint strengths, which is planning for the future restoration of areas within our your city together. Um, so part of what we do through our ecology team is we're out there every day doing ec uh the inventories to see what types of species are living or uh growing within our wersheds and within your community. So we've done tremendous amount of work when it comes to natural cover surveys. We found 975 species observed through the flora surveys and the natural heritage strategy uh really informs our work together in terms of potential restoration opportunities in Richmond Hill and you can see on that map the various areas where we think there's some priority or some opportunities lots of opportunities particularly in the northern portion of the city where we've got the ochres marine corridor where we've been doing some work for the last 20 years to restore that particular piece of um our geography. That takes us into the next couple of slides which really is focused on the Oakidge's corridor conservation reserve which I know many of you are well aware of and some of the challenges we face there but also the opportunities and so many of the positives that we see through that particular piece of um real estate that was undertaken through a partnership between TRC and the province the city and the region. So this is an enormous piece of land that extends from Baist all the way over to Lake St. George and Swan Lake on the eastern boundary. Um it's about 600 hectares uh with a long spine trail that runs from east to west. It does connect a number of communities. Um, primarily it's owned by the province but managed by TRC under a management agreement from 2007 which is coming up for renewal and some work is ongoing to make sure that the next generation of that agreement does meet the needs current and future needs of the city TRCA and the residents that live in the area and come to that park. Uh, we spent a fair amount of uh uh in put a fair amount of investment into the restoration work on that. It was historically agricultural lands. Um, as I say, there is a number of spine trails and connecting trails within that um, park that ensure that residents can access these amazing natural features, including three kettle lakes that uh, connect across the marine four kettle lakes, sorry. Uh, some of the collaborative efforts that we've had is obviously some challenges stemming from the pandemic onwards and I know that a number of counselors and the mayor have had meetings with TRCA to make sure that we're continuing to stay on top of things. We have staff out there regularly during the busy season to make sure that we're picking up the litter and making uh ensuring that it's clean. We are having obviously some ongoing discussions around how we manage those negative uh activities from a legislative or from a statutory perspective. Um some of the challenges around that is that because we don't own the land, it doesn't allow us to apply some of the conservation authorities act um regulations that we have to to manage negative use on our own properties, but we're working with the city and the province on that. Um and then obviously continuing the compensate or the restoration work about restoring some of the meadow habitat that you see within the corridor park. Uh a big part of what we do see from a positive perspective though is we have thousands of people coming to a natural area because they want to be there. So how do we focus those interests in ways that allow us to manage not only the use of the property but also build u a coalition of champions and people that are interested in participating more deeply in the work of conservation. One of the other pieces associated with this is, as I said, we've done a fair amount of work on the trails is continue to connect the communities around uh our communities uh and around the corridor park to that park in particular so people have ready access to passive recreation and they can explore this natural asset in ways that's meaningful to them. That includes, you know, the 800 meter trail that's connecting Mloud's Landing Park. um doing some additional erosion remediation, installation of some storm water management to make sure that we're not uh having continued negative impact on the natural environment or potentially risking putting some of our infrastructure at risk and looking at interpretive signage and trail heads that we're able to share the story of the corridor park and our work together with Richmond Hill in this particular area. That's all part of the more positive approach that we're trying to take with the corridor park is engaging people in programs and services and helping them understand what this means to our community as the headarters of the GTA as well as also the rain uh the rain barrel of the GTA. Shifting gears a little bit into some of our community based programs. So we have an amazing partnership with the city on climate ready homes and you were the early champion on this uh really about driving the adoption of sustainable practices more deeply into the residential sector. It's building on our 20-y year history with our sustainable neighborhoods program where we've been going uh in looking at the catchment scale implementation approach to wershed management uh really at the residential level. So engaging homeowners in things like energy conservation, water conservation, uh um uh greening of their property um looking at how they can become more healthy and uh healthy and engaged in the community and being prepared for a change in climate. So that work is ongoing. uh we have since been able to attract other funding from other private investors to help us grow that program including um the Peter Gilan Foundation and RBC have come to the table as well as some of our other municipal partners. So we really want to thank the city for taking that early step and helping support us get this moving and engaging your residents in it. Again with residents uh we uh we know that conservation is best served at the local level and and that's seen in the number of people that are coming to us for tree planting programs or some of our stewardship activities. They really want to be engaged in making sure that their community reflects what they want to see and reflects your vision as well. So our community stewardship program has been wildly successful the last 70 years, but more particularly the last 5 to 10 years. We've continued to see growth in people's interest in that. And you'll see the number of trees on the slide, as well as the number of residents and participants that have been planting those trees on an ongoing basis. 45 events since 2007. and that's animating your community and not only engaging your residents but ideally bringing other people from other communities and having an economic impact. One of the things and this will be the last one before I switch gears to some of the facilities and we have in the northern portion of the city. Uh at the core of conservation authorities is effective planning and our wershed planning program has been around since the inception of conservation authorities. So we are in the process of updating the Humber and the Rouge River wershed plans, both of which are really built on the input of communities and municipalities to make sure that reflects not only what's taking place right now, but also what our wersheds need to look like into the future. So big part of the work that goes into that prior to our engagement is all the science of conservation and making sure that we have that accurate information that informs the wershed planning process. So over the next little while, you'll see that public engagement part taking place um over to make sure that we're reflecting the interests, the needs, and the wishes of our community and their voices heard in the work that we do together. Um some of that started in late 2025 for Lar Rouge and some of it will be taking place coming up for the the Humber Wershed Plan. And the last thing I'll talk about are two areas in particular that I know that are really popular with the communities and have been around for a long long time in meeting the needs not only of local residents but local schools. Lake St. George Field Center is uh one of three overnight education centers and one of nine education centers that TRCA operates across the GTA on the shores of Lake St. George a really important kettle lake within the Oakidge and Marine ecosystem has been providing education programs for 45 years and we see over 5,500 people annually. We are in the process of looking at what the future of Lake St. George is in terms of meeting community needs given that we're reaching the end of some of the functional lifespan of some of the physical assets. So part of our conversations with staff of the city and with all of you is to make sure that we're reflecting as as we do with the wershed plans future needs. It is a hugely active site. So in some ways we're building a car as we're driving it. But we do want to make sure you're getting in we're getting your input on this. Um there's a couple features that are particularly unique is one is it's one of the few places where people can get to the shore of a kettle lake and really experience that. It also has some important uh cultural heritage resources with Davies Hall and some um historic buildings on site. So we want to make sure that those pieces all tie together. Um, I think I've gone through most of this, you know, really making sure that we're we're leaning into some of the strengths of the site and and as as we've said is, you know, looking to have an impact local economic improvement as well and attracting the right kind of visitors that help build Richmond Hill into the community that we all know it is and can be. So, uh, and the last one is the Dave Barrow Center for Conservation at Swan Lake. So, this is a center that opened 10 years. We're actually getting ready to celebrate the 10 year anniversary of the partnership with the York Region District School Board. Uh it's on the south side of Bethesda for those that know it. It's the old stone house, really the only one on the south side. Um it is a really special place for us and has been an important part of the education system for the York Regist School Board. Again, we're looking at the next generation of programming there. Post pandemic and during the pandemic, we'd moved a bunch of staff in there just to be able to meet some of our objectives around staff office spaces. We're starting to look at how it continues to be uh a community hub, which was really the vision for it in the first place. Um, so we're engaging with city staff and with all of you to make sure that that uh meets those needs. We have a number of different ideas that we're looking at that will allow us to introduce the next generation of uh young people into that space so that they can become community champions in the future and conservation champions. But uh definitely an important part of our consultation. The one thing that we are looking at and I know that staff have been in touch with city staff as well is the municipal water connection. Right now it's on a well so we're looking to make that connection now that the servicing does go across Bethesda. So that's a piece of action on our side. And then just to reiterate just how important the partnership is with the city and with TRCA. Um we have been fortunate I was talking before this uh fortunate to have a representation from the city on our board of directors for generations uh with Mayor West and Mayor Barrow before that and others. And I think this really is a lot in a lot of ways sort of the nexus of our work. It's as I say where three watersheds come together. It's where a lot of the heart of our work comes from in New York region and in the GTA. So, I want to thank you so much for that. We recently signed theou and continue to work on ways for us to build that that fibrous network between the two of us and the neural pathway so that we're working truly in lock step uh with the city and and helping you achieve your goals as we make a more conservation focused and conservation uh ready community. So, thank you so much for your time and I'm happy to answer any questions on this. Thank you, Director Gray. was a fabulous informative presentation. Uh so I would like to have a member of council to please move this presentation forward to the floor so we can have a discussion and have any uh questions directed to director Gray if necessary. Councelor Davidson as our ward one oak ridges counselor. Would you like to move this with pleasure? I'm happy to but I have to admit the mayor and councelor tree beat me to it. Oh okay. I was not looking left. Okay. Um I'm going to go with Mayor West who sits on the TRCA board. Well, thank you. Um so thank you very much uh Darl for for being here and um it's uh I I really am quite proud to sit on the TRCA board. It it's the work that TRCA does is incredible and it's I mean you know the the the kind of premise of having conservation authorities in my mind is to was to you know protect people from flooding and that's really important. In fact, that was one of the the uh things that came up at the the David Suzuki event that I had referenced earlier. And by the way, TRCA was one of the participants uh in that in that uh thing as well. But um but the work that you do that's really um uh front-facing to the to our residents is also quite amazing and and you outlined a lot of that in the presentation. Um, I I I do just want to touch on the the things that you're talking about with Swan Lake and Lake St. George. That's very exciting because I think I've always thought that both of those facilities, if there was any way to get more people to that those facilities and get more people to enjoy them, those are real jewels in Richmond Hill. And at the present moment, they're not very well known um in the general public. But I think there's a huge huge huge possibility to get our uh community to those facilities to enjoy the the fact that they're on these beautiful lakes. I mean, if you close your eyes, you're you're you know, you're way away from the city when you're when you're there. And um and I I think that there's a real potential for those assets to be leveraged to help people to really um you know, get to know our natural environment and have a place to go that's really within our city boundaries. So, so I'm really excited about that. Um, the what the other thing and you mentioned about the Bond Lake agreement and the Oakridges Corridor Park agreement. Um, you know, we are still working on that. If council recalls, I put forward a motion and we passed the motion to ask the provincial government to see what we could do about Bond Lake and getting it opened up. And it and it really is contingent on the agreement with TRCA and having the province give TRCA TRCA the the resources to be able to open that up and put in some extra trails and so on because as you said TRCA doesn't own that land. They just manage it. Um so that's really important. Um I I would also uh say I the work that you're doing on invasive species I think is also really important and I'm really glad that you mentioned that. I mean, fragmitees are only the the tip of the iceberg. There's there's just an unbelievable number of u invasive species living here that that I mean even I think sometimes I look at a plant or you know and think well it's always been here but it's invasive and you know it's cumulatively affecting our natural environment and changing the environment to something that isn't necessarily as healthy uh and robust when it comes to things like flooding and heat events and so on and so forth. Um you you didn't talk about the uh partners in project green and that's okay. Uh but I'm also I sit on the advisory board on that and the work that uh that's uh be is the work that gets done through um partners in project green is quite amazing and uh it is uh it's happening across the entire region and it is uh work that's being done with businesses and organizations to kind of reduce their footprint and to do good things for the environment and it's all you know really spearheaded by TRCA. So, I thank you for that as well. Um, anyway, that's all I really have to say, but thank you very much for the presentation. I appreciate that and, uh, keep up the good work. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, next on my speakers list is Councelor Davidson. Thank you. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the presentation. All those areas you showed are in beautiful Ward One. Um, I know you know me and uh, I I do think you're talking about the future. I don't see anything but more people coming to these things and coming wanting to be out in nature and they're beautiful. Um, you hear from me often about Bond Lake because there's nowhere to park and people nearby. There's the firecrackers, the loose dogs. So, I guess my question is I know you're not as robustly funded as maybe we would like. Is there, and I'm at, is there any way that a place like the TRCA and Bond Lake could set up any kind of trust so the public that really enjoys this place could help fund some of the issues we have like park oversight? Is there any any mechanism where there could be some kind of a public financial support to get the kind of oversight we want? Absolutely. I think, you know, that's a great suggestion. One we hadn't necessarily considered was some kind of endowment or trust that would allow us to do that. So that and it could be set up through our foundation if there was community support to do that. So we do have a foundation that supports the work of the conservation authority uh in a number of different areas. So that is certainly something that given the right kind of community based support and um some financial investments in it that we could certainly explore looking at and would be keen to have that as part of the ongoing financial model. As I say, we we look at everything from grants to user fees to other types of programs to try try and support this. So everything's on the table if we can get to it to make sure we're meeting the needs of the city as well as the communities. Thank you um through Madam Chair. If that's something you send me information if you want to if you even want me in my newsletter to float the idea um because I do think almost like the autobond society in the US like I do think there's a core group of people who would like to support the places that they that they really like. Um, the other question I have is the city's endeavoring in an EV charging um, strategy and I can't help but notice the two chargers at Swan Lakes parking lot that are locked up all weekend every day after 4 and I've actually asked them, can we charge here because we have electric car and the answer is no. So, I'm wondering if there's any way to make those available to the public. Yep. And I I yeah, I've seen those emails and yes, it's something we're looking at. Part of the challenge with Swan Lake is we've tried to focus uh community use to the parking lot further west on Bethesda as opposed to having that being an open parking lot but yet and those charges are put in with some federal funding. At one point TRCA was the largest installer of EV stations in the GTA and it was part through partners in Project Green which mayor West is part of. So we're acutely aware of creating opportunities for people to access a charging network. So that's something we're looking at at Swan Lake in particular and part of the longer term plans about what does it look like in terms of community based use. As I say, our main concern is protecting the natural habitat of Swan Lake itself and the ecological integrity, but at some point we'll have to reconcile the two and see whether we can open those parking lots. Thank you and you madam chair. Um my last question is about Swan Lake until I guess co it was open to the public and people could go. What's the what's the thinking and because I do get asked by residents why they can't hike around Swan Lake. What's the rationale there? So, Swan Lake was never truly open to the public. It was more open in the sense that we ran more programming there that was available for people to book as public members. When COVID hit, we focused primarily on using it for office space to meet our our distancing needs and ensuring that the schools and students that were coming in there were safe. Our journey is to reintroduce some of that public programming where it's booked. So, they are coming in, they book a program, be a nature hike or other things and that was always the way. I think it felt like it was open. We've always tried to keep it relatively self-contained for a couple of reasons. One is the natural integrity of the site, but also to protect the students that are there because we have school groups coming every day through the partnership with the York Region District School Board. So, it's a bit of a a balance for us, which is why we built the parking lot further west on Bethesda to focus public use to access the quarter park from there as opposed to through Swan Lake. U but as I say, we're looking at what that site becomes over the next, you know, 10 to 20 years and how we meet the needs of our residents. So, it'll be open to a degree in the next year or two for those types of programming, but probably not in the real short term about really open use from the public because we we feel that we've met that need at the parking lot further west. Okay. Thank you. Um through Madam Chair, like those when I go to any of these areas, I'm just you feel like you're somewhere far far away from the city of Chino. They're beautiful. I know you're doing your best. I I just implore the province if they're listening, whoever. We definitely need the money for oversight because the Bond Lake in particular, Lee, is is is very I I feel overused. There's so many people there and there's no official trails. There's nowhere to park. There's garbage. So, I I really hope we can figure out a way for the best oversight possible to keep these forever. So, thank you. Appreciate. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Next on my speakers list is councelor tree. Okay. Thank you so much. Um so as a resident living near living very close to the Oakidge trails I'm just trying to ask a few questions. So the first one is many years ago I engage with TRC trying to set up a signage on those trails because we have too many trails and small pass as well in summer and in fall. So when we leave kids riding bicycles running on the trail we lost our kids. So we send all the parents run wrong run entire trail to find out the kids. Is there any way uh there's going to be signage on the main intersections? So at least the people walking on trails when they see the sign they know where they are. Where is Young Street? Where is the buses? Especially pass bus pass bus pass bus pass bus pass bus pass bus pass bus pass bus pass bus pass bus pass bus bus bus bus bus buses there are too many too many small paths. This is very challenge for us for especially for small family. every day riding or uh walking or hiking there. We cannot find the directions. Is there any way we can build our sanitation on there? Just give a few directions. This is young. This is fastest. Yeah, thank you for that uh through the chair. Yeah, that's that's definitely great feedback. There are we do know that there are a number of informal trails within the quarter park and with any of our green spaces that we try and manage on an ongoing basis to make it easier for people to navigate those those informal trails that are created by community members do help help to confuse situation for people that aren't familiar with it. But definitely the idea of signage we do have trail maps on each of the trail heads at the entrances. But it's a point well taken in terms of how we make sure we're marking those trails for clarity so people can navigate more efficiently. So we'll take that back and talk to our conservation land planning team and see if there's more we can be doing around directional signage on the main trails in in our perfect. Thank you so much because that why I do have signage I asked my neighbor made a lot and then when I talk with TRC said no you cannot put a signage by yourself so it's still in my garage. So my second question I want to echo the mayor also councelor civ gson uh regarding to the bound lake whenever is in summer or even in winter we have a lot of hikers and that around uh walking around the bound lake around maybe 5 kilometers I see a lot of people parking on on the mati plazas there they walking long distance toward the park so I would say the tree the trail and pond is so beautiful we see people boating there swimming They're hacking a lot but probably there are some people also set fires on that pond like so is in the future we have more opportunity funings can support by the provincial government parking definitely is one of the uh uh of the requirement also the environment and also the trail maintenance might be another one because I see dramatic winter hiking people's really whenever minus 30 minus 20 they still walking in the p so hope they're going to be more features in the public accessible for all public. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Next on my speakers list is councelor Thompson. Well, thank you very much uh through you the chair. I'd like to uh thank you for the presentation. I know there was a lot of information that was in here that I'm sure you would have loved to been able to expand on, but you're only given so much time. So, I'm going to take a little bit of an opportunity to talk a little bit more about the climate ready homes program, which I'm sure you could do a presentation on that could go for the full 20 minutes and then some if you wanted. Uh, and of course I'll also take the opportunity to do a little shameless plug for my eco family on May uh May 30th where TRCA will actually be out there uh telling residents more and more about the climate ready homes program. And I really can't say enough about that program. I mean this uh you know you're going to allow residents to know about innovation in water and energy use, waste management, sustainable gardening, available rebates, all kinds of things like that. So uh for those of you who want to know more about uh that program, by all means make sure you come out on May 30th. Um, I also just wanted to uh reiterate the same as everybody else, the Bond Lake, I think we're all looking forward to see something actually occur there um that uh will make it uh good for everybody. So, uh those are my comments. Again, thank you so much and looking forward to uh seeing you guys at my event. Great. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Next on my speakers list is councelor Shu. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for your presentation and your great work. Uh, just a quick question on video park. Uh, as there are several construction projects currently underway, some trees are being removed and some people argued and described what's happening at DDo Park as deforestation. I'm not sure if this is a true statement, but now I'm happy to see uh the TRCA and the city work together on woodland restoration and even creation. So, uh could you please share a bit more details uh how this partnership works at DDo Park? for example, uh the size of the restoration area and what plants and trees are being restored uh or planted and the overall environmental goals at the park. Right. True, Madam Chair. Great. Thank you through the chair on that. And what I might suggest is actually we set up a a specific briefing on it just to give you the kind of details that you're looking for in that. We do know that residents have an emotional connection to trees and sometimes there is a necessary removal that does take place for us to achieve our objectives when it comes to a restoration project or an erosion management project. So we try and work as closely as we can with the community to help them understand what the end state will look like that we're really looking at generating a net benefit to the wershed and to the community through this work and that any of the trees that are removed are restored in some form uh to a greater degree. So that's our general objective around that specifically on that project. I'll have to connect with the staff staff with you and we can set up a specific briefing on that one in particular, but we definitely are happy to do that. Okay. So, let's talk offline. Thank you so much. Sounds good. Thank you. That's all my comments and questions. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Okay. Uh, next on my speakers list for round one is councelor Leo. Thank you madam chair and thank you very much uh Darl for your presentation and uh I'm very glad to see the uh invasive species management um finally taking place um on topi and root rivers um um you know it's this huge concern for the uh residents for the for for two years and uh finally it's getting done very good and I would like to thanks not only TRCA but staff um especially Jeremy and and and Mary and um and Marie um for for for responding to the residents um in the past few years. Um moving forwards um I know that um tree planting will begin in 2026 and um is there any way that um the residents can participate um in those tree plantings? That's something we can certainly look at in consultation with the city staff and our restoration team on whether there's some opportunities for community based restoration activity there. Um it if it was a prime location for that, they likely would have been built into the plan to begin with. But let me take that away and we'll talk to the team about whether that's an opportunity to do some community based engagement there because as you know and as we know people love to be part of the solution when it comes to good environmental stewardship. So yeah. Yeah. Well, sounds good. Thank you. Um not only tree ping but also cleaning, you know, um more than happy to organize cleaning events um you know on on on those uh trails and stuff. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Okay. Is there anybody else who would like to speak who hasn't spoken yet on the first round? Okay. Seeing none, I'll just say a few words uh before I move to round two. Mayor West has indicated he wishes to speak. Um thank you very much for your presentation and thank you for all the work you're doing in Ward 5 um along the along the Dawn and in Richfale. Um greatly appreciated. I have we have I'm working closely with um Jeremy who's on our staff Jeremy Warrenuk and uh we have had some concerns from uh neighbors um or people who back onto those areas about exactly which trees are actually going to be removed. So there's been a lot there has been some backwards and forwards and I really want to thank Jeremy for uh the manner in which he's he's been engaged. It's been very helpful. Um so uh that was all I wanted to say. Thank you so much for all the work that you do with our staff. Um it is greatly appreciated. And with that, I'll go to a second round. Mayor West, you're up. No, thank you. I just wanted to um to deal with just one comment that councelor Tree had made. I and I think he brings up a good point. During the pandemic, my wife and I did a lot of walking uh as did a lot of people. And we we were up in the Oakridgees Corridor Park a fair number of times. And I remember one time we were up there, uh, we did kind of get lost. I mean, we're not really that lost because, you know, eventually you're going to hit one of the major roads, but, um, I think Council Tree makes a good point that a little bit more signage would be a good thing, but the one thing that we learned after that was that there's a whole bunch of different apps that are available. And I mean, everybody has their phone. Um, so I wonder if TRCA could maybe pick a couple and then promote those because ultimately, you know, too much signage is going to, you know, kind of ruin the the the view. But, uh, but if you had an app that people knew about, um, that it would really help you to make sure that, you know, you're on the right trail and if you're not on the right trail, how to get to that right trail. So um just quickly the second thing too and this was just to respond to something that councelor Shu had said um about that there there has been a little bit of talk about um you know deforestation at uh DDO but I I think there's um you know part of what needs to be understood is that the DDO park had almost no trees when it was initially uh you know there it was a farm and and so all the trees that are planted there for the most part are trees that were put in a plantation style planting which is exactly the kind of thing you were talking about that we're we don't want that's not a natural forest and it isn't resilient. So when trees are coming down in DDO park it's a temporary measure to create more resilience in the forest going forward. Um and uh the you know the net new uh areas of forestation that have happened in DDO park have been significant. I mean, granted, those trees aren't very big yet, uh, but I've been on council for long enough that, uh, you know, I've been on, um, you know, planted trees, you know, 10, 12 years ago that are now actually not little. Um, and I think that's important. And the final thing I wanted to just touch on was councelor Leu's point. Uh, if there is any way for uh, the TRCA to include or invite particularly uh, residents that live in the immediate area where tree planting is going to happen. I would highly encourage it because it really gives people uh a sense of like I planted that tree and I am going to protect it. And I think that's something that we need to do. And I mean if if TRCA is primarily going to be doing most of the planting through a contractor themselves or whatever, but there could be an opportunity for, you know, some members of an immediate area uh to be involved. I would I think that's a great public relations effort and I would highly encourage you to do that if it's at all possible. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Is there anyone else on the second round? Seeing none, uh yeah, I agree with agree with you, Mayor West. We um we do a remarkable job at the uh DDO park and our staff is um is very much involved in how we rehabilitate and replant and make sure that those those standing forests whether they be plantation or not are very very well taken care of. And I want to thank everybody uh from from from my perspective uh for all the work that they that they do there. Um, so with that, we have the presentation moved on the floor by Mayor West. And are there all those in favor to move the presentation? Thank you. Seeing none, no one no one disagrees. That is passes unanimously. Thank you very much, Mr. Gray. Okay. Okay. Our next item is um agenda item 9.2, two which is a presentation by Craig Benning partner Himson Consulting regarding the city of Richmond Hill financial plan which is in reference to agenda item 11.6 and I would ask to come to the podium please um our treasurer director Gigi Lee who would like to do some intro in introductions. Thank you. Good morning madam chair and members of council. Thank you for the opportunity to present the city's financial plan. This plan prepared by Hamson Consulting is the next major milestone in the city's multi-year effort on financial sustainability strategy. The plan provides a long-term evidence-based roadmap to ensure Richmond Hill can continue delivering highquality services, maintain critical infrastructure, and support a growing community in a financially sustainable way. The financial master plan is designed to help the city make informed decisions over the next decade, balancing affordability for residents with the need to invest infrastructure, modernize services, and maintain financial resilience. It outlines the challenges ahead, identifies the gaps between current resources and future needs, and recommends practical, achievable strategies to strengthen the city's financial position. Through this presentation, Mr. Dr. Benning will summarize the key findings of the plan, highlight the financial risks and opportunities ahead, and present recommended actions that will support long-term stability as well as sustainability for Richmond Hill. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Benning. Thank you, director. Welcome, Mr. Benning. The floor is yours for 20 minutes. Uh it's a pleasure to be before council um this morning and I would just want to thank your staff for the excellent assistance they've given us in putting this together. I'd also note that my colleague Christopher Blet is here with me. Christopher has done a lot of the modeling here and is available to answer any technical questions that may come up after my presentation. Thank you sir. So, what I'd like to do over the next 15 or 20 minutes is just give you a bit of a background on the financial master plan and then really get right into the model findings and talk about those and and some of the critical things that we're identifying. It's excellent to know that the the city has a really strong financial position that you're starting from. excellent set of policies, but as with almost all municipalities here in Ontario and really across the country, there's lots of challenges that are coming forward and and we're going to identify and discuss some of those moving forward. And then we're going to wrap up talking about some policy recommendations and next steps. So, what is the financial master plan? One of the real benefits of doing this kind of exercise is it brings together all of the good work that the city has been doing. Uh I always like coming into these kinds of studies when a municipality has done a significant amount of background work with respect to financial man master plans, infrastructure master plans, development charge studies, park planning studies, and the city has done an excellent job of doing those. And really what we're doing through this process is bringing them all together, putting them into one model and looking at the long-term fiscal consequences, both capital operating and state of good repair associated with what the recommendations are coming forward from that. and most importantly from your own capital plan. And so really we have two sets of deliverables that um come out of this project that we've been working on with your staff. The first one is a technical model built in Excel by Christopher and it's a really strong tool that will be left with staff and we've assisted and started training them on the use of that model and it is the dynamic part of the deliverable. It should be updated and grow and continue to be utilized by your staff to help consequences of making certain decisions about capital spending, state of good repair and other critical things. The second deliverable is the report itself. And that's part of the agenda package and and together with the staff report. Really, that's saying here we are at this point in time. were reflecting upon the status quo of the city, your good financial position, and then saying based upon all of those documents that I just referenced, and your capital plan, if you executed all of those and tried to deliver all of those, what would be the tax rate implications, and what would be the long-term financial position of the city in undertaking those? And are there any challenges? Are there any opportunities that arise from that? And that's really what I want to talk about over the next few minutes. One of the things I like to stress is that the financial master plan and including the model, it's not a substitute for your annual capital budgeting process or your annual budgeting process. It's actually a tool and a mechanism to help inform those decisions. And so some of the um outcomes that I'm going to talk about are not defined outcomes at this point because obviously it's the annual budgeting process that will execute those. And this is a tool to help answer those questions and help solve some of the spikes that might be seen coming forward. And it pulls together all of those things and ties quite closely with the policies. As I've indicated, the city has an excellent policy base already and good financial practices, but there's going to probably be some things that you need to tweak over the next 5 10 years to reflect the challenges that are going to come forward. So what are some of the key takeaways um from the the master plan itself? So the one thing is as I've already said, you're starting from a strong financial position, which is really good. You've been proactive in terms of planning and having good policies in place. You've been doing all of those good studies that I mentioned. You've um had historically very affordable uh tax and rate increases. uh you've got strong debt policies and you have not had to rely upon any use of debt for some period of time if ever and you've got the debt room um available to you if you need to use that effectively and efficiently moving forward. You've uh maintained reserve funds at uh healthy levels and you've instituted the capital asset sustainability uh levy and and and it's developing a reserve. Could you do more there perhaps? and we're going to talk about that in a few minutes. So, moving away from that strong starting position, as we look at your capital plan from 2027 to 2035, it's a significant capital program that's probably going to test your financial capacity to undertake those and maintain reasonable and sustainable tax rates over time as well as maintaining reserve funds to look after your state of good repair and also operate your facilities. So finally then we say there's going to be some opportunities to strengthen some of those financial policies and practices as you move forward. So as I've already alluded to, the critical thing here is the magnitude of the capital program moving forward. The 10-year capital plan looks to be approaching $2.1 billion. Now some of you may be saying, "Wait a second, our capital budget actually is 1.9 million." The additional 200 million is that there's a report there for your parkland acquisition that says that you'll need to acquire additional parkland and that cost is approaching 200 million. So that's how we get to the 2.1 billion for parks recreation and that park acquisition. It's representing close to 40% of that capital need moving forward. And then also the most significant things is your road, your water, wastewater, and your storm or your engineered services which is over 40% of the capital program. So that's critical infrastructure that's going to need to allow housing to uh be created moving forward. So this is where the challenges comes. You need that infrastructure, you need to deliver it, you may need to maintain it, but it's such a significant capital program. To try to illustrate that a little bit more, what we've done here is we've identified that capital program over the 10 years. The bottom part of the bar, the green portion is the growth related share of that program. That will be largely but not exclusively funded from development charges moving forward. The top part or the gold color is that state of good repair and you can see that it's quite significant and growing reflecting the maturity of the city moving forward. And the one of the things that I want to point out here is that you can see we put a red line there. That's the five-year historic level of spending and that's been about $60 million. The other line above that is the average based on that capital program, which is in excess of 200 million a year. So the capital program that's planned for the next 10 years is three to four times what you've been spending over the last 5 years. And I think you can appreciate that that's going to put some real challenges on your tax rates and your other revenue tools. So, one of the things that you're probably going to need to face is the city has not had to use debt, but moving forward in order to manage um that capital need, you're probably going to have to consider the use of debt. what we've illustrated here and it's illustrative reflecting that if you undertook all of that $2 billion capital program and you utilized some debt what would happen over time and part of what we're showing here is um there's a debt limitation imposed by the province which is 25% of own source revenue I'm sorry if you're all familiar with this I'll just take one moment to explain what that means is that the province says that municipalities your annual debt payments cannot exceed 25% of your Own source revenues. Own source revenues being those that you control, which is pretty much your property tax base, your utility rates, and some other fees and charges. It excludes any transfers that you receive from other levels of government. Prudently, the city sets its own debt policy limit at 10% of own source revenue. So, you have a lower limit that you've self-imposed, consistent with most municipalities. The red line reflects that. And you can see that currently you have no debt. But based on that capital program, if you tried to execute all of that, you would need to use some debt to maintain some tax rates. But by the end of the planning horizon, you would start to bump against that 10% limit that you've imposed upon yourselves. So what we've done here is just tried to illustrate the use of the debt over time. Excuse me for one moment. and the impact on your reserve. So, you've got a healthy reserve fund balance right now, but even with the use of debt, we see that dropping off quite sharply in the short term because of those significant upfront capital expenditures. If you maintain the CAS levy at 1.5% uh you maintain your other uh contributions at the 2026 levels and you debt finance some of that capital, we see it recovering back to the point similar to where you're starting today by the end of the 10 years. recognizing that there's significant state of good repair and capital needs beyond the 2035 2036 program. So that's sort of reflecting um what the scale of the capital program and the impact on your reserves over time. This is a a a chart that probably will cause some pause and I just want to try to explain it. Based on that program and delivering that program, we would look at some significant tax rate pressures moving forward. And you can see that historically you've had about a 2.5% tax rate, real tax rate increase. In the five years, that middle bar, what we're showing is an increase of almost 7.4%. Now, a share of that um just under 2% would be offset by increased assessment from the new households and the new businesses arriving. But there's still a pressure of about 5.7% coming from that capital program and the consequences of operating those assets moving forward as well. Over the longer term, the 10 years, it's a little bit more modest, but we're still looking at a real increase of almost 4 12%. So significantly higher than the 2.5% that you've had moving that you've had historically over the last 5 or 10 years. What we wanted to illustrate a little bit more is saying okay well that's probably not um an achievable thing to increase tax rates at that level for that period of time over the 10 years. So what would happen if you just increased your real tax rates and this is beyond inflation by 1%. And that's what the red line shows and then the the yellow line or the gold line above it shows what we have forecasted of being the levy need. What that means is if you just increased at 1% in a real terms over the next 10 years, you have a funding gap of about 350 to 400 million um from that 2 billion capital, which means that you would need to defer, modify, change or push off your capital needs by 350 to 400 million in order to maintain lower tax rate increases. So that's the the message that I'm going to deliver, but I'm going and I come back to some conclusions in a few minutes, but I wanted to do a little bit of benchmarking and our report includes more of them. Just to sort of put it in the context of where you are relative to comparable municipalities. So as I've indicated, you are in a fortunate position of not having used debt. You've got a good strong debt policy in place of 10% of own source revenues well below the 25% set by the province. You'll see a group of other municipalities here which I think are relatively comparable. Some here in in the same region, some elsewhere in the GTA. You can see that most of the other comparables have been utilizing debt. Um and you can see the level of debt and the and the relative to um the own source revenue. And so from that picture, you can see that many are doing that and almost all the studies that we're doing right now are showing that municipalities are going to have to start using debt or will have to use more debt. I'd like to highlight the city of Missaga on this schedule. The city of Missaga has been a Hemson client for over 30 years. We've worked with them very closely. If I was in Missaga 15 years ago, they would be in the same position that Richmond Hill is today. They did not use debt but they were facing a situation in which they were largely grow um growth was sort of maxing out. It was all infill and intensification. They had utilized development charge monies very effectively but that asset base was aging and they were having state of good repair issues but they were also still facing growth. So what happened is the city recognized that it would have to start efficiently and effectively using debt to manage those capital needs and ensure that there's a generational uh use of um the assets and and the funding of those over time. Just moving on to the asset management contribution side of things. This is the level of contributions on a per capita basis and you can see that um the city is generally in sort of that medium of comparable municipalities and then there's a number of municipalities BMPon Whitby Missaga and Oakville where their contribution levels are much higher. That's a function of a couple of things. One is some of those have responsibility for transit and other services that Richmond Mill doesn't have. So they need to they have a larger asset base. But it's also that they've been more proactive and they're a bit more mature and they've been moving through that process. It probably gives you an indicator where you likely need to be moving in the next 5 10 years. This is a a lot of verbiage on this slide, but it was just to try to give you a sample of the infrastructure levies that are applicable in some of those jurisdictions. your levy at about 1.5% is not is comparable to these, but many have moved them up higher to 3% 2% 3% and there's even some higher numbers across the province and that's just reflecting the different pressures that municipalities across the country are experiencing with state of good repair needs. So just to wrap up with our policy recommendations. So, as I indicated, we identified that there's probably a gap there in terms of maintaining historic levels of tax rate increases, probably $300 to $400 million, which means that council's likely going to need to reassess and prioritize your capital spending moving forward. Um, look at opportunities to defer some of that, change that, modify that, and what the capital spend is going to be. I would suggest that you're probably going to need to use uh consider the strategic use of debt moving forward for key assets u whether that's the northwestly community center the operations center or other capital spends the benefit of doing that is it'll smooth out those increases and also recognizes that those assets have a long benefiting horizon and that there's generations moving forward will benefit from them as well and so it's not it's equitable to spread out the cost recovery over longer periods of time. Um, it also may mean that you put pressure on your CAS level. Um, you may need to use debt to fund some asset state of a good repair needs and then uh fund that through the CAS. As I indicated, you have a good set of practices and policies with respect to financial management and reserve fund. Some of those are not formalized and we would recommend that moving forward you give consideration to um formalizing those and making them a little bit more structured. the practice is good. It's just to put them in a little bit more of a formal state and we've provided some good examples from jurisdictions across the country. And then uh finally just the consideration of increasing that CIS levy. I know it's a sensitive topic and it's one that municipalities all across the GTA are dealing with. There's um a suggestion here that you may want to look at that in the context of the report identifies what the optimal level would be, but recognizing that's quite significant and perhaps moving towards increasing it over time to 3% target would help alleviate some of those pressures that we identified earlier through the process. So through the chair, that's the end of my formal presentation. Myself and Chris would be happy to answer any questions. Thank you very much, Mr. Benning. That was very informative. Um I will go to our budget chair uh regional counselor Joda Power uh to move this forward to the floor with thanks. Okay. Thank you. Absolutely. I'd uh happy to move receipt of the presentation and um and and the report by Hansen it in a lot of ways it confirms uh what what we know here that Richmond Hill is doing an excellent job in its financial management. uh we have a lot of fiscally sound policies in place and it's it's u very encouraging that that the the report confirms a lot of that that that we know uh we've been we've been very prudent uh to to account for our future cap capital needs. But also, we haven't been obstinate and we we haven't u you know made it made blanket statements like we're never going to use debt or or we're not chasing headlines with our tax rate increases. Uh we've had modest increases, but uh we've we've introduced them at the at at the right time. I think I think uh we've done a very good job. I think this report confirms that and going forward we have to continue to look at the capital asset uh strategic levy that that we put out there. Um and it it it it uh needs to be modestly increased. Um, but now that we have a framework and a a financial master plan to refer to, um, I I think we're we're going to be in great shape going forward to get there. Um, I I like the fact that we had a modest introduction of of debt. Prior to prior to this year, Richmond Hill zero. We had we had no debt at all. And I think we're pretty unique in large municipalities in that in that case. But but rather than say we're not going to do it, we understand um the value of spreading out the cost of asset. So like North Lesley Community Center over over time and that's I believe the right way to do it. So thank you very much for the report. Um we I I think what what I hear from the report is continue with doing what you're doing. couple areas to focus on and uh you know to to me it's it's good job Richmond Hill keep it up. Thanks. Thank you very much regional counselor de Paula. Next on our speakers list is Mayor West. Well thank you very much and thank you very much both uh to you and to our staff for all the great work that you do in terms of keeping us uh you know uh in a place where we are in a good financial position in Richmond Hill. Uh that you know doesn't happen by accident. So, I have a couple of questions. Um, what happens to this financial model if the if the provincial government goes ahead and does uh municipal service corporations and takes away all of that infrastructure off of say development charges and out of our responsibility because it looks like there may be a possibility that that will happen. Yes. Through the chair and and mayor, of course, we're hearing the same sorts of things and there could be legislation as early as this spring. um Christopher has structured the model to allow for um the changing of the funding of any water and sewer infrastructure and then depending upon the mechanisms or or if there's a transition phase that can be built in and tested in the model and show what the rate impacts would be if all of a sudden development charge funding was either eliminated, reduced or phased out over time and that would show the rate impacts coming forward and and the increase on the utility levy. Okay. I mean, I have concerns about that whole model, just to be clear, but but in terms of this discussion, h will that help us or will it be more of a neutral situation? Well, in you know, in in my opinion and some of the analysis that we've done in other jurisdictions, obviously um the costs still have to be funded and and and so if you're removing a capital funding mechanism and then putting it on the rates, there'll be a shock to the rates that'll increase. Yeah. from um moving something out of the municipal responsibility into some form of municipal service corporation will have impacts on the debt capacity calculations. Uh one, you lose the revenue source, but you also don't have that debt to fund if if you were going to debt finance it. So depending on the structure and the nature of the municipality, those consequences vary. Uh but that's one thing that you'll want to test moving forward for sure. Okay. Can you go to slide uh two? I want to just clarify something for my own clar clarification this uh sorry slide sorry not slide two slide 11 my mistake okay so the 5.7% and the 4.5% uh you had said that that is contingent on us not taking on any debt. Is that correct? Did I hear that right? No, I'm we have assumed a certain level of debt funding in the model and that's reflected in those rates. Okay. All right. Uh Okay. So, I think that's it for questions. Um you know, I've been saying for a really long time and I've spent an inordinate far more time than I thought possible as mayor advocating for um more sustainable funding from the provincial and federal government. And I I I mean, honestly, every day that goes by and and reports like this come out, it it just increases my resolve that we really do need a different uh set of financial circumstances from other levels of government because it's not just Richmond Hill. I mean, cities, the the reliance and well, and I would say overreiance on property tax, the most regressive form of taxation that we pay is really becoming an affordability issue for our our residents. And I think this is one more uh way of illustrating that point. Um you know I think it's interesting in one of the slides you had said that the 2027 to 2020 2035 capital plan is beyond our capability to fund it the way we're funding it right now. And I mean that just goes to suggest that if we were to fund it without any debt we would have to raise our taxes through the roof. And again, that's that's problematic in terms of raising the taxes, but it's also problematic from the sense that we're raising taxes or a form of taxation that has really nothing to do with your ability to pay. It's it's highly unfair and it really needs to stop. And you know, I I I look to some of the work that's been done with us at the Ontario big city mayors to advocate for that and also AMO uh for their their fis fiscal sustainability review to just we need a new system. We're paying for so many things on the municipal property tax base that has no business whatsoever being on the municipal property tax base. And I would argue that when the the tax system that we're in right now was formed, cities didn't have all this infrastructure. Like a 100 years ago, we didn't have water and waste water infrastructure. That was to the degree and it was never meant to be put on property tax. property tax was only supposed to be a small little bundle that was geographically based. It has gone way beyond that. And every time we add more to that property tax base, we are directly impacting our residents ability to pay, you know, or at least many of our residents ability to pay. It needs to be on other forms of revenue that are more sustainable. And and I you know I won't go into the any further into my rant than that, but I mean ultimately this is an illustration of the game that we're supposed to play because we have to play it, but it isn't the game that we should be playing if you know if the the system was was done in a more equitable way. Um, how much of this is due to the fact that development charges are no longer anywhere close to paying for the full cost of growth? Yes. um through the chair, we we have built in um recognizing especially over the last 5 years and the legislative changes under the development charges act um increase provision for exemptions, discounts, changing of the rules. Um you know, we factored that in and and development charge revenues even under the new rules with the exemptions, it's probably going to be 15 to 20 or 25% lower than it would have been even 5 years ago. But even some of the other rules and the and the removal of some of the services means that um development charges do not fund anywhere near the full cost of development related pressures on prices. And you know, further to the mayor's point, when I started my career 35 years ago here in Ontario, one of my roles and responsibilities was to track all of the grant programs available to municipalities and there were significant funding opportunities for capital infrastructure, state of good repair, things like roads. Well, those have almost all been eliminated. And and when the who does what in the mid '9s came, you know, municipalities took on greater service delivery responsibility. And I would agree many of those services are about income redistribution not about property tax kinds of supported services and Dr. Enid Slack does some very good work in this area and uh I would agree with your comments and hers as well. Well, thanks for making me even more upset. Um but I but I think you know the the point there is that you know it was bad enough as it is but with all of the changes that have happened and and will and are continuing to happen with the pressure on development charges and the complete non-committal of making up the development charges at a provincial or federal level is causing this impossible situation. And I mean that is the problem. And I I said this at the Ontario big city mayors the other day that you know we are we are reacting again and again and again to all the changes that have been you know thrust upon us and but really and and we need to do that but at the end of the day what we need to be doing is is you know recognizing that this is a game that we really can't win. So, um, just in this time I have left, I I do actually, you know, I'm probably going to have to go to a second, um, round for this cuz I've just got a couple seconds left. So, put me down for a second round. Thank you. You are down for a second round. The next person, next council on our speakers list is councelor Davidson. Go ahead. Thank you and through you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the presentation. Um, I don't know a lot about debt financing. I I debt worries me personally and professionally. But what I don't understand is if we borrow money from reserve funds, I guess is how that works. We borrow money from the city basically. Is that right? We don't go to the bank and get a separate loan. Are we not borrowing from money that the city has already? Well, through the chair, actually, what we're talking about here is going out and and getting debt. not borrowing from your existing reserves but actually borrowing money on the markets either through the region or yourselves. So it would be actually just like taking on a mortgage or going out and getting a loan with payments that are due over an amortization period of 10, 15 or 20 years. Wow. To me, Madam Chair, that that's even worse. My problem is if we can't afford what we need with the taxes and the money we bring in. If we can't afford something in 2026 and then we take on debt payments now, where is this extra money supposed to come to ever pay off that debt? Because we can't even afford it now, how are we going to afford it in five years? How do we get rid of that debt once we get that debt? Yes. like through the chair. That's one of the benefits of having the model that we've providing to you because as I showed like with Missaga who never used debt before, but they recognized and they did long-range financial planning and said we've got some of these spikes occurring. We in order to try to fund that capital need next year or the year after, we we couldn't do it. We don't have money in our reserves to do it. We we we would have to have a massive tax increase. If we debt finance it out over 10 or 15 or 20 years, it's going to spread that out and allow us to maintain the tax rates. And as long as we're we're being efficient and effective in the use of debt and not letting it grow. So even they even though they have their 10% their own source 10% limit, they're still well below that. And they monitor it and manage it. And it is a fiscal tool that can be used to help smooth things and recognize that there's generational benefits to the investment in certain assets. Right. Three minutes. Sorry, I I I finance never my best subject, but how do you get rid of that original debt? How do you get rid of that original amount of money whether you can afford the payments or not? And now in addition to the costs of the city running, we're adding, I don't know, say 4% debt on a massive amount of money we just borrowed. How do you ever whittle away the capital of that debt? Yes. So, it's it's not like the federal and provincial governments that run deficits. We're talking about debt. And so you you go out and you get a you've got a a $50 million project. You're going to debt finance and you're going to finance it over 10 years. At the end of the 10 years, you will have paid off the 50 million plus the interest on it. So the payments are embedded in the tax rate, but it there's no more debt after 10 years over wherever the limit of the term is. So you're paying it you're paying the principal and the interest off every year. And then there's the next project that we have to debt finance. So I I don't But I feel we're at a stage where either the province and the federal government start giving us help because there's just no way property taxes can pay all this or we really re-evaluate the absolute necessities that the city or any city has to have and then figure the rest out. I I honestly it baffles me and it worries me. Um but thank you for the explanation. Um through you madam chair. Also on the pigraph I think it was slide three. Where is uh I'm confused about the money for parks. Where are where's their land in the city of Richmond Hill for more parks? Yeah, the park land acquisition almost 200 million. What where where's that land, Christopher? That was identified in the parks plan. The parks master plan was identified as the need and that and that was the cost estimate for acquiring the land. Okay, I guess I missed that part of the parks plan because uh I don't recall the opportunity of the city. Could someone on staff refresh my memory, please? What what what parkland are we opened or available to us to purchase? Do I have a staff member? Director Janetta, thank you. Uh through the chair, we'll get back to you uh councelor Davidson on that. Okay. Thank you. Um, and the last thing I wanted to say like through you, Madam Chair, I know we always talk about we can't raise taxes, but we're in a moment of time where people paid, you know, 2 million, a million and a half. So, they have these massive mortgages and even an extra 1% for the um, capital, the CAS. That's a big deal. So, I mean, we throw around numbers and say, well, we were at 1.5, we needed to get to three. But I I I think this this is a fairly conservative, financially conservative council. It really worries me because I'm already seeing foreclosures in my neighborhood where not only can people not afford their mortgages, they can't, you know, to add taxes on top of that. So I I don't know what the answer is, but thank you for making it ever so clear that we have a lot of work to do. Thank you. Thank you, Council Davidson. Next on my speakers list is Council Tree. Okay. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you so much for sharing this information. we see the problems or the challenges we are facing in next five 10 years my concern same as mayor and also our counselor worth one as well so for now uh the average in the past three years as a matter maybe 4% both for the CS and also for the operation as maybe it's higher than that so if this one bump out 1.5 if I remember correctly from the operation part perspective in next five years the average maybe more than five 6%. If you add them together, 8% or 7%. Plus the uh regional uh rich as well for average families the the income is almost no increase. We all know it right. So for most of the riskman hill if this continue if we don't have any additional resources that fund from uh provincial or federal government and we don't have any other channels to get more income. The problem here is in the five or 10 years every year minimum of six seven% of increasement 10 years later how many residents can afford our property tax and how many people don't live in our city and how many bankruptcies will be happening in our city is this city we're going trying to create for the next five or 10 years long. So remember this is also uh for the population of our seniors uh 23% no 32% reach 255 I'm assuming in next five or 10 years lot of reach 265 or the income they come from from their pension balance how much the pension for for those type of pressures only for property tax and also we have a lot of young kids here as well maybe in the future there are more affordability for housing they can have more condom mediums but the prop tax is extremely huge and heavy how many res going to live in our city in the future I'm I'm just throw this one from my personal observation and feelings from uh residents so this is not I'll say very optive I think it's very negative for us so as council general members I think we all have to look at either we cut off certain of We project maybe is not high priorities we have cut off on second one we're looking for more additional income maybe that is one of the options or maybe fundings from whenever companies or uh the federal government or provincial give us then next might be cut off whenever is layoff whenever is budgeting cough or whenever it's project putting lot of pressures on the residents might lead to a big challenge because we don't want to see bankruptcies. I forgot how many bankruptcies in in the 2025 across inter Ontario but see the number is huge right we don't want to see next five years more houses from city bank hill going to put on the banks auctions that is not we are trying to see I know we have a lot of middle class workingass families a lot of pressure on them already in next five years going to be six 7% of property tax will be a huge deal for them I just don't echo here. So let's figure out is any other alternative or solutions or plans ahead of us for next five or 10 years. Thank you. Uh Mr. Benning, do you want to comment? Um I mean I think through you all of those are valid comments and we just said, you know, municipalities have limited revenue raising sources to them. Uh and some of the pressures you're under are um beyond your control. But I to the mayor's point, I think it's good that you're doing this study that municipalities across and the more that the province sees that municipalities are fiscally trying to plan, but these are the pressures um that that in response even to the development industry suggesting that you have the capacity to build infrastructure with no development charges. Well, it's just not true and and you need either other revenue tools or you need the uh other levels of government to continue to uh support municipalities. Excellent points. Thank you very much. Um, councelor tree is are you done? Okay. Next on my speakers list is uh deputy mayor and regional counselor uh Chen. Thank you very much. Thank you for the presentation. I'm sure lots of modeling work um behind this. Um we at regional council we spent almost all morning last Thursday talking about the vandable charges and they keep evolving situation. So I completely echo the mayor's uh frustration so to speak and uh and you're absolutely right your last statement. Thank you, Madam Chair. By the way, um that province not just need to listen to really act as well as a federal government. I think there has been some kind of uh noises that federal might step in doing something charges. Let's hope that's the case. But getting back to what being presented, help me understand um now in the um Hamson's report and on page 37 it's already point out among a number of risk that development charge reduction is something happening but how do we kind of mitigate uh maybe you might have said it a report might have it but through you madame chair it might be helpful that we knew we know identifying the swap analysis that is the risk but this is what we're posing in terms of how to mitigate those risk you mind to clarify at least for me or for us through you madam chair Mr. bidding. Yes, I'd be pleased. And I I'll look to my colleague in case I misstate anything, but recognizing that in the model itself um and as I answered in to the mayor where where we anticipate the development charges because of changes to the act or even the slower rate of development occurring over the next 5 years or so, we've accounted for that in the lost revenue or decreased revenue from development charges and effectively have moved that to the tax base in the model. That's part of the pressure you're seeing on those tax rates is where we have estimated revenue DC revenue losses associated with legislative changes, we've shifted it to the property tax base to fund in the modeling. Thank you. And um and also help me uh when I'm looking at the benchmarking which is helpful because we are not alone. Richmond Hill is not alone. Um would you mind uh through madame chair uh show me this slide again that what's been collected by other comparable municipalities in terms of the um capital asset search charge or levy not this one the one the table showing that we at 1.5% someone else like Maka is 3% I think there's a slide I I forgot to jot down the slide number 16 I believe if you don't mind to show the slide. Okay. Right. Thank you. Now, interesting. I noted that um particular I pay my attention or draw our attention to Oakfield is charging 1.1%. And relatively speaking, our population is very much alike. I mean there might be other factors not identical. Um and I look at um both in the staff report and also in the hamster report table three indicated while Richmond Hill at this point in time 0% at the that level Oakville is at 2.6%. Right. And also represent the other slide page uh 11 of the staff report as well. All those are fine and dandy. Now the challenge I have is maybe help me understand Oakville is charging 1%. Um and we have been trying 1.5% maybe get us okay until now. Um maybe I miss it somewhere in the report and would it be helpful if madame chair uh please inform us as to when Oakfield may be starting that that servicing. So they give me in my mind anyway some idea they have been starting service that servicing from this time on so they can afford to charge only 1% up to now through you madam chair Mr. Benning. Yes. Um through the chair um Oakville's not one of our clients so I I don't have all of the background um to some of those things. One of the important things to note is that Oakville was very early in establishing their asset levy back to 1996 before many municipalities. So they they were proactive in that sense and that allowed them to accumulate a very healthy reserve. Um and then their their use of debt has been somewhat strategic. I'm going to look to Christopher in case he's got any other insights. Go ahead, sir. Sorry, I just wanted to flip back to one of the one of the slides, but on slide 14, it does show the uh the current debt levels that Oakville has. they're relatively comparable to sort of the other municipalities and they are on the lower end. And back to m Mr. Benning's point in and that they established that levy way back in the 90s, it has allowed them to kind of keep their debt levels not low per se is not the right word, but relatively controlled in terms of how they use that because they've amassed that fiscal capacity to undertake that state of good repair work over time. Thank you very much. And I I think if I can my take away from the comments and all that hopefield started 30 years ago to at the time very visionary this seems the word I'm hearing and and that's why well maybe that's why that's one of the reasons anyway they can keep only charging capital levy at 1% at this time but they start 30 years ago. So assuming council collectively decided either this year or next term started that financing it might take us some time uh hopefully not 30 years before we could either maintain the current 1.5% or even hopefully lower using the oak scenario. That's my takeaway. I don't know how accurate it is, but through Madame Chair, um if I'm totally um only daydreaming, uh please let me know, Mr. Pitting. Yes, sir. The chair. No, that that's exactly correct. And even um some of the modeling that we did here and for others is if if you ramp it up for a period of time to one and a half, two or even three for a period of five or so years at the end of 10 years, you could drop it back down to one or one and a half to sort of get those reserves up to a more sustainable level and then reduce down the the CAS or the funding level. Uh the last comment I have about Opio as a comparison, it just so happens unless you change the numbers uh of uh 2026 poverty tax increase is identical to Richmond Hill 1.96%. Not talking about Levy. So it it's really interesting uh as a comparable. Um but getting back to the report itself I also noticed in the Hamson report on table two um and that bothers me a lot and it is not just now comparing to all the manip report um Richmond Hill we rely on our revenue property uh tax revenue 90% 90 from residential category and which means that heavily rely on any tax rate changes increase levy would be on the residential whereas any other ministries on that table would be much less than 90%. I I that's a comment. I don't think we can do anything about it, but I think that um I I I draw that out because it really means from an economic development standpoint that Richmond Hill needs to meet much much much better in terms of we're shifting the balance and and that's a comment for us to think about collectively, not so much on this, but but that table uh really uh got me worried in the longer run. So I might come back on the second round because I'm out of time already. Thank you um Madame Chair but also to the presenters and Hamson experts. Thank you for confirming had we started 30 years ago we might maintain not only 1.5 but even lower in the lavi. Thank you very much. That's my point. Thank you. Next on my speakers list is councelor Shu. Thank you madam chair and thank you Mr. Bing for your report is very comprehensive and informative. Thank you for the great work. Uh I fully understand that increasing the uh CAS levy and also the external debt financing would help uh support the capital budget. So just want to clarify are we planning to use both at the same time in future years or just an option for either one? Mr. Benning? Well the the model allows you to test both things. We've kept the the uh in the one scenario just the CAS at its current level and then use using debt. There's other scenarios that we've run where we increase that and that then allows you to modify the use of the debt. Uh but the two likely will be used in tandem. It's just whether you maintain the current level of the CAS or whether you increase it and then there's that interreationship between then your your need to use debt or how the debt is funded. Okay, I see. So uh this plan suggests increasing the CS levy from 1.5 maybe up to two or 3% gradually over time. So do we know what the yearbyear schedule that the increasing would look like? True, Madam Chair. Um as I said, we've we've set that up in the model to allow it to be tested. For now, we we worked with staff just to look at a few options. uh but rather than sort of come forward with a specific one, we've just left that together with staff to say that a gradual increase and they they have the model can test what that would do over time. Okay, I see. One moment, councelor Shu directly. Yep. Uh through the chair to councelor Shu. So essentially the report highlights the long-term sustainability and it requires balancing the different tools that we just talked about and through the future budget process is where we'll bring everything back to council to make those decisions and to have those discussions. Okay, I see. Thank you. I think this question may be too early. So just want to clarify is the 3% expected to be enough to fully cover the 24 million dollars annual gap? Is it the 3% is good enough to cover the annual gap? Gentlemen, I can certainly respond to that. Um, so the the 3% is a more um sort of more practical approach in terms of beginning to cover the gap. The in and the short answer is that does not cover the gap. We tested a variety of scenarios uh in in bringing in the uh the findings of the asset management plan which proposed um undertaking the backlog over a much longer period of time than just the 10 years that you saw in the in the analysis there. That uh gap undertaking the backlog as well would be upwards of 7% uh what the cast living would need to be in order to do that. Obviously that's a significant uh amount of of uh tax dollars. So we tapered it back to to a more practical approach. Okay. That's really tough and set. Okay. And my next question is the current model is uh based on a constant 2026 and doesn't count doesn't account for it in inflation over the 10-year forecast period. Am I correct? So that the gap might be much more than expected. Right. Just depending. Yes, that's correct. We we have not um that there's a toggle in there that inflation can be added. It's just making sure that everything is comparable in terms of those and that's why we keep it in the 2026 dollars. Also, one would anticipate that at some point there will be a reassessment of the of the tax base as well from the 2020 2016 base which influences things. So, we we just try to be consistent in the application of those things. The model can allow for some testing of inflation. Okay, that's really sad. Okay. Um so has the city or your team explored any other option like issuing municipal bonds? Uh is our credit rating high enough to do this? We we have not that was not within our scope. We have not examined that. Okay. Yes. Do you think would it be possible to issuing any municipal bonds directly? through Madam Chair to councelor Shu. So Richmond Hill being a lower tier municipality we do have to work with the region say they they do um represent us in that matter. So essentially we are not able to go to acquire bonds on our own. So any debt financing would require our council approval and it will have to go through the region's processes as well. So is there any place uh is any plan in place that the city will go to talk to the region for any possible to have a municipal bonds for that level through madam chief directly through the chair. So we do have regular contacts re with regional staff with respect to the city's debt financing needs. Um so we we do that on a regular basis. We I would suggest that we're we're not at that point because we're bringing this report forward for discussions with council. As I mentioned earlier, it's one of the a few a number of financial tools that we're going to utilize over the next little while. Um but you know, rest assure when the time comes we'll be having those conversations with regional staff. Okay. I see. um through madam chair as as I understand some cities borrow from their own reserve funds and they pay the interest back over time instead of just using the funds outright. Do you think this way help our budget book through madam chair directly through the chair to councilor she that that is definitely something that staff would consider and you may recall through the 20256 budget process um staff did recommend and council approved internal financing for storm water related assets so that it's already in place. So it within that process uh we borrow against our own reserves and we pay back principle as well as interest. Yeah, this might be a good way. Uh my last question might not be so popular because it's it's about AI. I think AI is a trend. Do you think AI might help on our capital budget like using AI instead of real manpower? I know this is not a popular for our staff, but just wondering if the trend for the AI might help our budget book. Yeah, Madam Chair, I'm not in a position to answer that question. It's not an area of my expertise and I haven't studied how it might be utilized in the municipal context. Okay. Ger crystal ball. Yeah, we don't have a crystal ball to see the future. Yes. So, that's all my question for this round. Thank you madam chair. Okay. Thank you very much councelor coun councel you you indicated you have to leave so okay no problem. Next speaker is councelor Thompson. Thank you very much through the chair. Thank you for the uh presentation. Um I I uh concur with the uh the mayor wholeheartedly. I mean if the revenue streams were different we would you know not be in the situation that we're in today. But the the problem is we do have to make difficult decisions based on the information that we have in front of us. Uh and right now we have to make those decisions based on the revenue streams that we know to be true right now. Um, so yes, debt financing is a concern, but I think what we're really looking at here is whether it is more responsible to gradually introduce disciplined uh policybound debt for uh for long life infrastructure or avoid debt entirely and either spike taxes dramatically and possibly deplete our reserves. Would that be a fair statement to say in our current situation, Mr. Bidding? Yes. Through the chairman, that's that's what I would refer to as efficient and effective use of debt to help um mitigate some of those spikes and and ensure that you're not sort of depleting the reserves too extensively. And if I understood correctly, then the current 1.5% capital levy is simply not enough to sustain uh infrastructure renewal long term. But if we refuse to use debt, then the levy would need to increase sharply and again the depletion of our reserves would also be on the horizon. Would that be a fair statement, Mr. Ming? Yes, that's correct. Okay. um in the modeling and I I'm not sure maybe I'm confusing it with the report um but were we the the model was assuming a 4.5% borrowing if I'm not mistaken and u and I can't remember if that was a presentation of the report but if that's the case I guess I'm wondering are we doing any sort of sensitivity analysis uh at higher interest rates like because that would have a huge impact if we all of a sudden we're talking six or 7%. Heaven knows where we'll be with what's happening globally. Go ahead Mr. Bing. Yeah. Yes. We we have not run that sensitivity but that's an easy one to run through the model. It's simply changing the assumption there and it can be changed uh you know in a subsequent year and keep it at four and a half and then assume a higher rate in in years to come. uh you know up until the the most recent world events I think generally the pressure was on interest rates coming down rather than going up. Um but as you say the current state uh and and it certainly that's what the the model can allow staff to do is if if they want to test what that would do it will show through relatively quickly. Right. And of course uh if the uh DC uh development charge uh you know reforms erode any further then we have those risks that we're running as well. Correct. Correct. And once again the model is structured to allow um that we've already got it built in offsetting the development charge revenue losses and if they're higher there's toggles in there to to increase the amount of DC revenue loss associated with legislative changes. Um this next question may be more for staff, but would it be reasonable to expect that uh we'll be monitoring debt to revenue um you know so that we can see this as part of our annual uh reporting directly through the chair to councelor Thompson that would be correct. Yeah. Okay. Um, and and I guess the other thing is just I want to make sure we're only talking about capital projects here. This would in no way, shape, or form ever uh parlay into operating at all. Correct. Mr. Bennings. Yes. No, there's no assumption of use of debt for operating. It's all capital. Right. Right. Okay. Um, I think I'm going to leave that there and um those are all my comments for now. Thank you so much. Thank you, councelor. Okay, that exhausts our round one other than myself. I just have a couple of comments to make before we go to round two. Um, thank you very much. Um, Mr. Bidding, um, like Councelor Davidson, financing and banking and all of that is is not always right up there as my top suit, but the explanations that you gave were excellent, as as director Lee does all the time. anytime I have a question and I go to her, we have a wonderful discussion and she always gives me everything that I need to know. So, I know we're in good hands. Um, thank you to you and and to everyone at HSN and Christopher, thank you very much. Um, I just have a couple of questions. So, talking about the um gradual increase of CAS, capital asset sustainability levy. Um, I do I like the idea of a gradual increase. If we were to go to 3% from 1.5, if you do that gradually over the years, um then I I believe that if we if we inform our residents as to the reasons why and they really know why we have to do what we have to do, I do believe that um the residents of Richmond Hill would understand that. I I I don't see that there would be rioting in the streets um with that. I think that it is once it's explained I think that it's very evident as to where we have to go. The question I have is even if we raise the CAS levy that does not preclude us from still having to go to debt financing. We will still have a shortfall. Am I correct Mr. Benning? Yes. I think our analysis would suggest that it it likely needs the combination of the two, increasing that levy gradually over time, but also utilizing debt to help mitigate some of those spikes and and the spread out the recovery, recognizing that ultimately if it's an state of good repair that you're issuing debt against, you could always use the CAS to offset that debt, those debt payments moving forward. I very much think it's a combination of the two. Okay, good to know. Directly, did you want to add anything? I I I saw you bouncing. Um to the chair, I I agree with um Mr. Pining's assessment. And I would also add it's it's a combination of strategic use of debt as well as gradually increasing the rate and at the same time continuing to prioritize and looking our capital investments as well. So it's like a threeprong approach um that that we would take a look at. Thank you very much. Um, appreciate all those explanations. There's no question as as Deputy Mayor Chen um said that the pressures upon us as a municipality on all municipalities is excessive. And um I I do agree also with the comments made by uh the mayor and deputy mayor about uh and and others on on our bench today about DCS and that the province is I urge the province to step up because there is no way municipalities can deal with this by by ourselves um residents and their municipalities. It's not possible. Um so hopefully we'll be able to see something uh something happen um in in the next short while which will be of great assistance to all of us. Um but I do look at the the gradual increase of the CAS as a long range uh financial planning is a very very good idea and it's very gradual. So I I do believe that that would that would be a very good thing. One more thing I would like to ask Mr. or or to directly by increasing the levy? Possibly by going to debt financing, possibly. Does that preclude the raise the possible or probable raising of property taxes or or one doesn't mean that the other doesn't exist? Do you know what I mean? she want that. I think it's a it's obviously a a combination of those things based on the current capital plan. Even with doing those things, there's going to be pressure on the tax rate. So then it's also looking and trying to prioritize some of those capital needs and seeing if some of those things can be shifted off or reduced to help mitigate the pressure on the tax rate. That's what I thought. Thank you. Director Lee, did you want to add anything? Or are you hiding? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um well that's that's all my comments again. Thank you very much. We'll go to the second round and the first person on the speakers list is Mayor West. Oh, thank you very much. Um this has been a great good discussion again. Thank you. I I I just want to be clear um notwithstanding my fairly negative comments in the first round, I mean like this is a very prudent and wise um uh plan going forward. There's no question in my mind about that. Um and I'll certainly um you know support this but and and I think also you know it I will also continue to to you know uh advocate for the kinds of changes that we need to relieve the pressure on this sit this situation that we find ourselves in as well. Um but I think you know just a couple of things and I just wanted to point this out. Um this is a very complex thing. We've been talking about this item in one form or another for many many years now and and you know we're getting closer and closer and closer to where the plane has to land. And um so I I mean we could I suppose just do without investing in a whole bunch of capital projects, you know, going into the future, but it's pretty clear that that is just not an option because what it ends up doing is degrades the the value of the built things that people rely on in our community to such a degree where it would affect the vibrancy of our community, which people very much expect and and I I think they should expect that. So, you know, the doing without part is really not a viable option. I mean, we can we can push it out further and further and further into the future, which we've been doing over the last number of years that I've been on council, but I think it's really important at that at that say having said that that there's a difference and councelor Thompson touched on this uh versus deficit and debt. Deficit is spending more and primarily from an operating point of view that you that you really can afford to spend. Whereas debt is using that tool to expedite the building of things that you need in the future. Um and and that's that's an important distinction and like I I would say that the there the two things that we've touched on but I just want to emphasize is that that's similar to uh people's household use of debt in when they buy a house. I mean, you could either wait to come up with the $1 point whatever million dollars to buy the house in in which case you'd be without a house for a really long time or you can buy the house earlier and then pay for it over a longer period of time. And that's essentially what we're talking about here. So, you know, even though debt is a four-letter word, it's not really a four-letter word in in, you know, it is something that we could be using and it would actually help our taxpayers and the vibrancy of our community. Um but I also think that that it's important to realize that that when we pay for something today in full um that the the taxpayers at that time are paying for the full cost of that facility. Whereas, if we're taking a facility like the um the new the the new uh uh community center that we're going to build in North Lesley, um we're, you know, the some of the amount is being paid for today, but some of the amount is being paid for for people that don't even live here right now. And that's very fair because in 20, 30, 40 years, that facility will still be serving the public and it needs to be paid for in an equitable kind of way. So regardless of the situation we find ourselves in, uh, you know, it's it would be great if we were flushed with cash and we could buy whatever we want when we want it, but the reality is that never was the situation in municipalities like ours and it certainly more so than ever, not the situation right now. So I think that's something that's important to to recognize if we get questions about this from the public, which I expect we will. Um, so anyway, I think those are the the points that I'd like to make uh at this time. I again I thank you for the for the uh report and and to be clear this passing this report today doesn't immediately like you know we go out and we start debt financing. This is a framework that we're using as a policy tool to make sure that when the time comes that we're going to be doing this that it's done in a in a fair, it's done in a transparent and it's done in a policybased way. And I think that's really important um for for for doing something like this um from an accountability to taxpayers perspective. So anyway, thank you very much. I appreciate the uh the discussion and and uh we'll move forward from there. Thank you, Mayor West. Next on my speakers list for round two is Council Davidson. Thank you and through you, Madam Chair. Thanks again. Um, one thing I just wanted to mention, we were talking a lot about Oakville. Anecdotally, I have friends in Oakville and their property tax bill is substantially higher. Um, just comparing say a 2500 foot house. Anecdotally, they're paying a couple of thousand dollars more a year in property taxes. So the comparisons about what percentage and all that it doesn't necessarily translate on the ground to what people are paying. So just a cautionary note and three you madam chair um I had AI written in big letters I agree with councelor Shri uh Shu it's not it's not even I'm not even thinking about staffing levels. How do we have a forecast for 10 years where we're not looking at the possible implications of AI in terms of efficiency or other things that I can't even imagine AI might be possibly taking care of? Madam Chair, Mr. Benning, do you dare? I mean, I think it's it's a very good question. Christopher is much more in tune with the AI and and you know we are embedding it in some of the work that we do ourselves and some of our modeling and the collection of data and and things. So I think it will have consequences. Um but it's very difficult to build that in. The modeling will allow for adjustments, manual adjustments if there's opportunities and and you begin to quantify what those impacts might be. Um but I think it's too early to tell unless Miss Lee has ideas. Any further comments? No. No, we're good. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, councelor Davidson. Yeah, that AI is a big concern also with me and every time it's comes to the four in a conversation, I I tend to say, has nobody watched the Terminator movies? Do you not know what Skynet is? You know, I just I find it all very terrifying. Okay. Um, my next uh speaker on the list is regional councelor Jan. He's gone. Okay, we'll get to him next. Uh, I will skip over then to councelor Thompson. Thank you very much through you, the chair. Um I I do want to expand a little bit on what uh uh the mayor mentioned and that's about the intergenerational factor here because you know let's face it if we were to avoid debt entirely and then spike the taxes dramatically right now then it's the it's our folks today that are paying for this for something that as he mentioned is going to be around you know 20 30 40 years from now. So I think it's really only fair that you look at, you know, people down the road that should also be contributing to this. So I it took me a while to kind of wrap my head around this whole debt financing, but I'm I'm starting to see where it makes sense in the long run. Um, you know, it doesn't mean that there aren't still some risks here. And and one of the risks that I think about is um you know what a a future council might do. Will they be disciplined enough to stay the course? You know, so that's you know it's something that we can't predict. And so we have to look at it from the standpoint that you know they will be uh uh conduct themselves appropriately because I I agree with the mayor this is a a prudent uh manageable way to uh move forward here. Um and and I and something that you also talked about is is pairing the u uh the debt with gradual strengthening of of the reserves. I think I think that's pretty much necessary. I I you know I can't see you doing one without the other. Um and I I think as uh director uh uh Lee had said um this is a threeprong approach. You got to make sure that you know those uh CAS levies uh do increase that we reserve our policies and that we have our capital prioritization. Uh those things all have to work in conjunction with each other. So uh those are my comments at this time. Um I like the mayor I think you know I I would certainly have to support uh you know when this comes forward. I I know that we're actually I think we're still talking actually about the presentation, but we seem to have morphed into the actual report here. So, I'll I'll just say it now. I will be supporting the motion. Thank you. It's just the report that's being moved. Yes. Yes. It's just it's just the report, but yes, there are actuals that that creep in. I agree. Thank you, Councelor Thompson. Is that all? Yes. Thank you. Deputy Mayor Chan, you're next. second round. I do have you down. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um I just want to we haven't said it enough. Thank you very much uh for the u um this particular study and and also our staff and consultant because uh it's uh speakers before me already said is not uh uni dimension it's a multi-dimension and also there are also incidents uh um or events that may be beyond our control. Uh the most welcome one of course is there in the bins budget. It might be forthcoming maybe surprising good news. to see. Um I I think at the end of the day um the point has been made. It's just that any decision made by council today or next week at council does not mean the forthcoming sudden jump from 1.5% to whatever uh if you eventually go 3%. Um however having said that uh I don't know realistically between now and next Wednesday it would be like a an estimate of forecast timeline maybe it is in the report maybe I miss it is that uh we would eventually increment to increase to 3% over a 10-year period based on the assumption we're making today if there already in the report uh through Madam chair, please advise me. Um, I think that'll be helpful. Directly, it's through the chair to regional counselor Chance. So, what staff are asking of council today is is to receive the financial master plan so we can use it as a guiding framework for future budget, financial planning and policy setting um purposes. So we don't have a percentage that we are proposing but essentially now with with the recommendations being adopted by council we'll take that back to help develop that framework. Thank you. Uh thank you for the answer director Lee and thank you madam chair. So um so I I guess I I I I I can sense a challenge of saying over a 10-year period it'll be gradually from 1.5 to 4.5 and 3%. Uh but so that's not something that it'll be really um how I put it express at this point in time. That's my takeaway, right? But just given the our finance staff team uh the tool if we need it then we can do it as timeline we deal with it later when the need arises and come back to council. Would that be a fair um summation of what um that director is just responding to my previous question through madame chair through the chair that's correct so we'll use this as a policy framework as I alluded earlier like it's a three-prong approach and then Mr. Benning has talked about this model already. So essentially given the the comments and the feedback we're getting from council, we'll continue to work towards the future budget cycles and we'll we'll consider the the different factors before we come back for um a a budget deliberation or consideration. Right. Right. Um I thank you for the answer again. So basically um confirming what I uh my understanding um maybe it's not the time to discuss today um at the end of the day we talk about money here but on the other hand it's a state of good repair and I'm looking to our commissioner uh uh of um uh here and the other end that deals with most of all the capital projects. So somehow Nick need it to be some kind of evaluation or valuation when the capital project must reach that state of good repair to be done regardless of what the money situation is. I'm just I'm don't expect an answer but I'm just raising it's more than money we're talking about there also a technical aspect at some point in time may actually inform or help uh the uh final proposal from finance say hey uh council need to bite the bullet now because this xyc infrastructure must be done within the next couple of years and this is cost you this much and that's where the crunch time comes I I suspect That's how I interpret it. Am I not correct? So, Madame Chair to directly directly through the chair. That's correct. So, essentially that that's what staff will come forward with at the next budget cycle. Okay. Good. I'm glad you two talk. Thank you. Those are my questioning comments. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you for the answer. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, for a wrap-up, I'm going to go to Alvera budget chair. Excuse me. um budget chair depala um and we are only speaking about the presentation right now or do we want to Mr. Clerk, I need your advice. Do we want to go also move the financial plan? Thank you. The report, Madam Chair, I actually recorded in my notes based on the uh regional counselor depala's motion that he was moving actually both the presentation and the staff recommendations as one. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure. Is that correct? That's right, madam. Okay. Thank you. Go ahead. Yeah. Moving the presentation to receive with thanks and and the recommendations going forward. So I'm really happy that we have this this road map this, you know, an overall um a reference point that we can continue to come back to as we plan. Um things things will change. There's there's modeling in here that um you know on inflation rates uh you know with with our revenues it's it the when the con condo market uh whatever the condo market does is going to drastically affect what our what our revenues are going to be. Uh right now it's completely stalled. Uh we have such an aggressive plan in terms of what can be built in Richmond Hill. So th those factors could could change dramatically, but uh nothing um we always have this guide to reference back to as as we make th those changes. When I come in from Oak Ridges, I I know the way very well, but I have to Google map it to city hall every every morning because sometimes Bay View is faster and sometimes less Lesley and rarely, but sometimes it's the 404. So, um, you know, we've got we we know the way and we know where we want to go and this is a great great guide, but we're we're still going to have to uh make adjustments on a on a yearly basis and um you know, from from time to time still have to um adapt to to market conditions and changing conditions, but uh we've got a very sound financial plan in place and I'm very happy to move this. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um I I guess we we just the pandemic taught us that we never know where the next curveball is coming from. So that's always in the back of our minds. Excuse me. Okay. So we have on the floor both receiving the presentation with thanks and also um agenda item 11.6 SRCFS 262 city of Richmond Hill financial master plan recommendations. moved by regional counselor Joe Depalo. All those in favor that passes unanimously. Thank you. Okay. So that all our other agenda items were passed on consent. The next is other business which we do not have. No emergency timesensitive matters. So we can move to agenda item 14, the always popular adjournment. Who do I who would like to do that? Oh, councelor Tree. Okay, councelor Tree has moved for adjournment. All those in favor, anybody opposed? Passes unanimously. Thank you. Thank you very much to Amson.

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