Check. One, two, three. everybody to the accessibility committee for person with disabilities um October 13, 2026 meeting. Um we'll now commence a roll call. Uh please indicate your presence when I call your name. Cara Hernold Levi Janosce. >> Yeah. Thank you. Uh, Leap Johansson gave regrets. Hargan Carr hearing none. Paula Kilburn. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Jake Maurice. No. Uh, Mark McNeel. Kim Nolan >> here. >> Thank you. Tim Nolan >> here. >> Thank you. Robert Westbrook >> here. >> Thank you. >> Councelor Mark Tatterson >> present. >> Thank you. And James Kemp, I am here. >> Who did? >> Cara. >> Cara. Hello. Cara. I will mark you present. Uh, would the staff who are present please introduce themselves with name and position? Beginning with Carrie. >> Carrie Macintosh, legislative coordinator. Demi Bluon, legislative assistant. >> Sunil Lang, staff leaison. >> Michelle Martin, manager of accessible transportation services with the transit division. >> Thank you. >> Owen Quinn, project manager, accessible transportation services. >> Thank you. Are there any other staff present? >> Perhaps John. Apologies. John Kohich, operations manager, Darts Transit. >> Thank you very much. Uh, are they standing or they staff? Darts. >> Well, Darts is not city staff. Yeah, John is operations manager for Darts. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, okay. I will now call this meeting to order. As we have a quorum present for today's meeting, I'd like to call the meeting of the accessibility committee for person with disabilities to order. As well, a reminder that all electronic devices are to be switched to a non-audible function. Committee meetings. Uh, ceremonial activities. LC Mintosh will now read the Hamilton land acknowledgement. >> The city of Hamilton is situated upon the traditional territories of the Eerie Neutral Honot Harosani and Missagas. This land is covered by the dish with one spoon wa belt covenant which was an agreement between the Harosani and the National to share and care for the resources around the Great Lakes. We further acknowledge that this land is covered by the between the lakes purchase 1792 between the crown and the missagas of the credit first nation. Today, the city of Hamilton is home to many indigenous people from across Turtle Island, North America. And we recognize that we must do more to learn about the rich history of this land so that we can better understand our roles as residents, neighbors, partners, and caretakers. >> Thank you, Elsie Macintosh. Approval of agenda. May I please have a mover and a seconder to approve the agenda as presented? >> Thank you very much, Kim. Seconded by >> Tim. >> Tim. Thank you very much, Tim. Uh, are there any amendments to the agenda? I'm hearing none. Are there any >> Pardon me? Are there anybody opposed? Hang on a second. Just a technical issue. No, that's okay. Uh, is there anybody opposed to the agenda as presented? I'm hearing none. That's carried. Thank you. Declarations of interest. Are there any declarations of interest? I'm hearing none. Uh, adoption of minutes of the previous meeting, 5.1 August 11, 2026. May I please have a mover and a second to adopt the minutes? Moved by Thank you, Tim. Seconded by >> Kim, thank you. Excellent. Uh, is there any discussion on the minutes? >> I'm hearing none. So, is there anybody opposed to adopting the minutes? I'm hearing and seeing none. So, that's carried. Thank you very much. uh delegations. We have a couple of delegations today. Um so first is 6.1 Sueello Ontario College of Social Workers and Social Service Workers respecting the importance of members of the public pardon me having an ethical and professional social worker or social service worker. Um welcome delegate. You will have five minutes to complete your delegation after which members may ask you a question about your delegation. Thank you for Thank you for having me here today. I appreciate the time. Um I know I'm strict on the five minutes, so I'm going to read more of my information than speak openly about it, but I'm open to questions of course. So my name is Subatelo. I'm a professional practice adviser with the Ontario College of Social Workers and Social Service Workers. The reason I'm speaking to you today is to just let you know and share information about the regulatory role of the college when it comes to services provided by social workers and social service workers. I understand that a lot of individuals of in your constituents have uh likely had services from social workers and social service workers. We have 35,000 registrants in Ontario and most of of the mental health services provided in Ontario is by social workers and social service workers. Just want to go through a little bit about what we were about so you can share with your constituents. Uh we exist for the fact that we know there's a risk of harm to individuals receiving mental health services and other services provided by our professions and we are there to ensure that they have a people have a voice to contact the college and to inform us of any concerns of the conduct um that they might have experienced with a social worker or social service worker. We ensure that the uh public is um protected from unqualified, incompetent or unfit practitioners. And we also have what's called title protection. So if you're not registered with the college, you can identify yourself as a social worker or social service worker. It's a protected title and there's actually a consequence a financial fine uh for individuals who use that title without being registered. We also have a public register that is on our website. So you can go there to see if the people that um are providing these services are in fact registered. And we make sure that we have um a clear idea about registration because we set minimum standards. We credentialize people to ensure that they're providing quality uh service and that they're following the standards of practice and the college regulation and legislation. Uh we provide oversight and maintain rigorous complaints and discipline process as well. And we ensure that our registrants get some continuing competence or professional development so that they can continue to provide good quality care. So there is the online register that you can find on our website. Um the other thing I wanted to just indicate again for information purposes only but you are absolutely welcome to share and discuss with your constituents and others throughout the city of Hamilton is the fact that um we have certain things that come up to us in terms of complaints and discipline. And I'm just going to name them really quickly, but just put a little bit of effort into the fact that we have our sexual misconduct uh regulation. And in 20125, we had over 450 new referrals for that complaint. And many of those that have allegations of sexual misconduct go to our discipline uh committee. And we um have noticed that it's both virtual and nonverirtual accounts of alleged sexual misconduct and that a lot of these um allegations occur in a psychotherrapeutic setting. Um the other areas that we see come up when in professional practice and we get these consultations, we get about uh 3,000 a year in terms of consultations. We get them from registrants and members of the public. So again, if you have people who want to check us out and talk, we are available for that. So other areas that may be of concern are the ways that our registrants uh document um how they advertise, if there's conflict of interest um in their practice, if they have any dual relationships, um how they're practicing their scope, how competent they are, um anything around termination of services, and also anything around confidentiality and consent. So I want to stress that it's not just psychotherapy, although we can provide psychotherapy, but it's a variety of services as I'm sure you are aware. social workers and social service worker work in shelters. We work in case management um a broad scope really uh along along uh the province and I'm a registered social worker myself I should add. So in terms of our oversight and discipline function we do ensure that we have a process in place. We have to uh review every complaint or report. Now a complaint can be from a a member of the public. A report can be from a professional. Um, and so people can choose to provide this information to allow us to investigate. It is a driven model that way. It's a complaint driven model. So we don't initiate that unless we are informed about it. That's all I have to say about uh the college. I'm talking really fast because I want to make sure that I covered everything. But I do thank you so much for your time. I think this is an important um group to to chat with about this. I've worked in the field for for many years and have worked with persons with disabilities and people with cognitive and developmental disabilities as well as children's and adult mental health. So I'm familiar with the kind of services that are provided and sometimes our registrants um may not be conducting themselves appropriately and that's why the college exists. So with that um I'd just ask if there's any questions. >> Thank you very much for that. Uh so are there any questions for the delegate? Seeing none, uh Paula, can you take the floor for a minute or take the chair for a minute? Sorry. >> I will take the chair, sir. >> Thank you very much, Paula. Um Sue, uh just uh just so I'm I'm clear. Um because social worker to me is a very broad term. Um what exactly umbrella of uh different specialties does social worker um encompass? It's a good good question because there are a lot of tasks and responsibilities that appear to be like what we call the public domain. Um and so we do identify that if you are educated in social work, social service work, masters, bachelor's, college diploma that you have um you're working with individuals for the enhancement and betterment of their psychosocial functioning and the community as well. We do community development. Um and so it's looking at either looking at you know not psychotherapy per se but on some mental health intervention assessment we call it social work diagnosis um we also talk about things like helping people with daily living um uh group skills um coping strategies and we talk about research education educating uh the profession like people are coming through the the postsecary institutions um providing policy and planning for community, you know, housing and that kind of thing. So, it is uh very particular in terms of that list. We have our scope of practice on our website, but we understand that people may um act in those ways without being registered. So, what we like to tell people, particularly if they're getting like mental health services to check because if you're not registered, then you don't follow a code of ethics or standards of practice in the way that our 35,000 other registrants do. And also there's a there is a path for people to contact the college and complain or have concern. If people aren't registered then they can't be held accountable for some of their um actions or all of their actions that may um not comply with the standards. So it's a it is a scope that we do have but there are people out there and I know working in the field people call themselves case managers or you can even call yourself a therapist. um those aren't protected titles, but if people are using the title and they're kind of kicking it around, I'm a social worker. They aren't able to do that unless they're registered. So, that's our way. It's just like if you're you go to nursing school, um and then you start practicing nursing. You can't actually call yourself a nurse unless you're registered with the college of nurses. Same with anything, teachers, doctors, etc., massage therapists. So, we really want to push the fact that as social workers, we are also uh professional and we're accountable and we want to empower people to be able to contact us if they have any problems with their um with their profession in terms of social worker and it can be limiting if they're not registered and they reach out to us. So, that is unfortunate. So we always tell people make sure you check your public register and make sure that the people who are acting as a social worker are held accountable and also should be registering with the college. >> Thank you very much. Uh one followup question. Um you're mentioning um training out of school and whatnot. I know that um most programs have an internship or some sort of on the onsite training. Uh does your college have some sort of connection for people to um to connect with agencies that they would get the proper sort of u internship from? >> I mean not not off the like right off the bat. We don't have a list of that kind of thing. So people who are in postsecary they typically have placements that they can find or locate through their postsecary institution. And then there's the Ontario Association of Social Workers. So we advocate for public protection and the OASW advocates to be the voice of the social worker. So they may have a list of individuals or organizations that can connect people to ongoing learning. There's also something called 211 which I'm sure you're aware of. So 211 is for social services. I always let people know take a look at that. Plop in the category if you want to work with the aging population. There's a variety and they limit it geographically. So you can look at different places that um exist like agencies etc. and to see if there's any placements or practicums. We do offer ongoing competency uh um requirements. So when you're registered with us, you are required every year to get professional development and we do offer resources. We have a number of resources and training modules and webinars that we've done that people can use to build their competence. >> Okay. Thank you, Sh. just a small bit of that. But from what I understand, there's there's a second agency that also works um more on the the education side of things. >> Yeah, the Ontario Association of Social Workers can support uh new graduates and people who are searching and 211 is is another uh like I said, it's a uh what is it? A repository of organizations that you could look up if you're looking for a practicum. >> Excellent. Thank you very much. That's my my last question. And I'll take the chair back. Paula, >> the chair is yours, sir. >> Thank you very much. And now, uh, one last call for any questions for the delegate. >> No. Okay. Well, I want to thank you very much, Sue, for coming out. And, uh, I learned a little bit about social workers today. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Bye-bye, everyone. >> Thank you. Okay. Uh, we'll we'll vote for everybody afterwards. So, uh, next up we have Dez Robinson, YW.CA CA Hamilton respecting an introduction to the opportunities program which provides pre-employment training to people who self-identify with a disability along with occupational therapist support and wage reimbursement for employers. Um, welcome delegate. You have 5 minutes to complete your delegation after which members may ask you questions about your delegation. Please begin. Oh, you're here. I was Good afternoon. Um my name is Dez. I am here with my colleague Amanda. We are both employment counselors and job developers with the YWC Hamilton um the opportunities program. So, as just explained, we do support people with disabilities through employment training, one-to-one coaching, job development, and advocacy along with paid placements with employer reimbursements. Part of our role is to help our clients navigate the pathway to employment. However, we often notice another problem. Um, sometimes the pathway isn't necessarily the barrier. It sometimes can be the job itself. Since the pandemic, we've seen many workplaces change the way jobs are structured. So, roles have been combined, responsibilities have been expanded, and one position can sometimes require a person to be a cashier, stock shelves, clean, answer phones, use an inventory computer systems, and provide customer service all at once. Even our own roles as employment counselors and job developers used to be two separate positions, and now they're one. um for someone with a disability that can um turn what might have been an accessible role into an inaccessible one. We often talk about whether a person with a disability is ready for work, but I think we also need to ask whether the job itself has been designed in a way that allows different people to succeed. For example, when thinking about the way a role is designed, we should consider um are there multiple jobs being combined into one position? Is there a long list of essential and non-essential duties? Does it involve constant multitasking? Is there little predictability? Is there an inflexible schedule? Are there physical requirements that aren't actually essential? And is there a heavy reliance on technology or rapid task switching? We need to consider if we are creating barriers in roles instead of reducing them. The second problem we see frequently is that even when a role can be accommodated, attitudes can become another barrier. In many cases, employers hear the word disability um and they run away from us personally um and interpret that as a lack of ability. they can view an accommodation as an inconvenience or they focus on what a person can't do rather than asking what they can do with the right supports. Um so to address these concerns we would like to discuss some recommendations. Our first recommendation is to look more critically at job descriptions. When we see a job description with 15 or 20 responsibilities, we need to ask ourselves, are all of these truly essential? Or have multiple roles ga gradually been combined because workplaces are trying to do more with fewer people? Making a job accessible doesn't necessarily mean lowering the standards. Sometimes it means identifying the actual essential functions of the job and removing unnecessary barriers. Our second recommendation is to think about the job design more creatively. For example, instead of going in with the mindset, this person can't do X, Y, or Z, so they're not suitable for the position, can we ask, what parts of this role are they particularly good, particularly good at, and can the job be structured around those strengths? For example, someone may be excellent at organization, preparation, detail oriented work, or hands-on tasks, but struggle with rapid multitasking, unpredictable environments, or certain physical requirements. That doesn't necessarily mean that they can't work in this position or this role, but we may just be putting too many different functions into one job. Lastly, our third recommendation is that we recognize attitudes as an accessibility barrier. A ramp can remove a physical barrier. Accessible technology can remove a technological barrier. But what removes the barrier when an employer assumes that someone with a disability won't be capable before they've even had the opportunity to demonstrate their skills? Accessibility has to include expectations, communications, and workplace culture, not just the physical environment. Our request to the committee is to consider employment accessibility not only from the perspective of getting people into the jobs but also into the perspective of how many jobs themselves are designed. Sorry, how the jobs themselves are designed. We would encourage the committee to explore opportunities to bring together people with disabilities, employer and employment service providers to examine how job design, combined roles, and workplace attitudes can create barriers to employment and what practical changes can be made. We've spent a lot of time asking people with disabilities, how can you prepare for the workplace? But I think we also need to ask employers, how can we prepare the workplace for the people we want to employ? Because employment accessibility isn't only about make sorry isn't only about making the person fit the job. It is also about making sure the job leaves rooms for the person who actually wants to succeed. Thank you for your time. And do you have any questions for us? >> Thank you very much. So I'll ask for any questions of the delegates. I've got Tim. >> I've got Tim. Tim, >> go ahead. Tim, it's on. >> It's on. >> It's on. Okay. Um, uh, do you work with people with professional degrees in helping them to look for work? >> Um, we have, yes, we've had a variety of um, different participants that we support. >> So, I'm thinking about somebody who has a master's degree in social work. >> Okay. notwithstanding the previous speaker's uh uh kind of interesting but >> yeah somebody with uh a disability she doesn't live in Hamilton she lives out in in the outskirts of Hamilton but >> uh you know she wants to live in Hamilton I think so >> absolutely I think that we're having a good program conversation in terms of like promoting and maybe we could help this person specifically um but we could provide you with our contact information. We could chat more about that. >> Great. Let me give you that. >> Thank you. >> You know how to reach out to me because uh she's reached out to me. She's a former student of McMaster. I worked at McMaster for many years. >> Okay. >> And uh she's a grad of McMaster and now has a master's degree and is still having a hard time finding work. So, >> absolutely. We will reach out to you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks very much, Tim. Uh and Paula, I believe, is next. Okay. Um, how can we help if in any way you change the attitudes of employers? They're they're the biggest barrier to start with, not the disability, it's the employee employers that have the is the barrier, right? So, how do you think this committee could help with um you know breaking down that barrier? >> Absolutely. I think that that is like group conversations as well because we have explored different areas that we've tried before and we haven't seen that necessarily work. Um so it could be like a bigger conversation and kind of cloud talk of how we could try to do that potentially. I think also maybe education and training in the workplace too. um could be really great just I think folks even just understanding like invisible disabilities and visible disabilities sometimes there's like a stigma if like you can't see it then it doesn't exist and I think increasing the education around that um >> and maybe even education around accommodations and like an accommodation isn't always going to be something that's really expensive >> um or inconvenient some sometimes it can be something very simple like breaking down task a little bit further Um so maybe just exploring that more with like especially the leadersh >> um of departments so that it can be trickled down >> right I know when I worked um they knew I had a disability I have visual disability I was capable of doing the job but I was treated totally differently uh because I could multitask and the other people that I was working with couldn't so I got blamed for their inadequacies And you know it's it's not right. I was spied upon by the staff and you know it was it was horrible. >> Yeah. >> So uh you know it it it's it's a big bar and it has been for well I was 40 then god that's 37 years ago. That's a long time ago. So >> you know it's not changed. >> No. >> Yeah. That's been our similar experience as well. >> Okay. Thank you. Thanks Paula. Any other questions? >> No. Paula, could you take Oh, sorry, Tim. Go ahead, please. >> So, this is a question through you, Mr. Chair, to maybe Sil. Um, do you know if the city of Hamilton still keeps uh uh statistics on its employment of people with disabilities, among other uh designated groups. Does the city still do that? And do you know if the city has a uh some kind of program to actively pursue the employment of people with disabilities? >> Uh I don't have that information uh off the top of my head, but I can certainly look into that for you and and follow up with you about that. >> Okay. I I you know I think I mean that's an important thing that this committee could be asking about more often than we do. Um and you know the Y I'm sure has a whole whack of people with disabilities who might just be right for filling a job at the city of Hamilton somewhere. So you know maybe that's something this committee might consider uh addressing more frequently. Um, and I don't know again through you, Mr. Chair, to councelor Tison, but I don't know to what degree, if any, uh, conversation is had around the council table about employment of people with disabilities. And if not, maybe that's a conversation that could be had at the council table. >> Okay. Thanks, uh, Tim. I'm going to uh have any other conversation on this after we have the delegate. So, this is question time for the delegates. Uh okay. Any other questions for the delegate? No. Paula, could you take the chair for a moment? >> I take the chair, sir. >> Thank you. Um I actually wrote employer is a barrier here. So, Paul already got that for me. Um I'd also posit that employment is is a barrier itself. Um there's a lot of people that are um well trained and well educated um that can no longer uh work for an employer. Uh whatever their disability now becomes their their boss. >> Um so I I think I've asked this before, but I'm going to ask this again. Um are you aware of any provincial programming for uh small business or entrepreneurial programming for people with disabilities? Um so those people can fill that that gap as well. um our program, not specifically, but the YW.C.A. in general does have um entrepreneurship programs that we can refer to and partner and collaborate with. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Um I think that's it. Uh so I'll take back the chair Paula. >> You have the chair, sir. >> Thank you. And so uh before um I say goodbye, is there anybody else that has a question for the delegates? No. Okay. Thank you very much. Um, so I am going to ask for a mover and a seconder to receive the deleations. Thank you very much for coming. >> Thank you. >> So mover and a seconder. I see Paula's hand up and seconded by Levi. Thank you. Now a discussion Tim was bringing up having us um have this conversation more and and talk more with the city about employment of people with disabilities. I think that's a great idea. Um uh we we also talked about um bringing back um regular um AODDA complaints and whatnot to the to the committee as well. So perhaps we can wrap that all into the same a regular reporting structure. >> We certainly can do that. >> Thank you. Um okay, any other discussion? Anything else you' like to add on that, Tim? Um no. Okay. Excellent. Uh anything else? Anybody else could add or add before we move on? >> Uh James, >> yes. >> Uh as Tim would know, uh years ago we used to have Maxine Carter and we did talk a lot about uh training employment for people with disabilities. Um they did have accessible computers and things like that in the building. I don't know whether they still do. um they had lots of equipment that people could use like for hearing loss and other things. So um I don't know whether that is what you're thinking about but I know years ago we did discuss it a lot but it seemed to have fell by the wayside. So I think it's great that uh if you want to bring it back those discussions I would be in favor. And just to clarify, you're talking about bringing back discussions of what equipment the city has available for people with disabilities >> and how they train and how they um um uh how they uh oh, what's the word? people >> uh interview the all the interview everything from a person applying that has a disability cuz we did it once before so I know it's you know it's out there somewhere in in the city but it was started from the uh application to the interview to how they could accommodate and everything so >> um then might I suggest we ask uh HR to attend the meeting to um bring us up to date on some of these issues if that's possible. Yeah, I think we can do that. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> See, that's that's good information to have. >> Okay. So, do we need a we need a motion or we just going to put an in No, we're just going to put an invitation. Okay. Yeah, we're just going to put an invitation to HR uh in in the future to talk about that sort of thing. >> Okay. Thank you, J. >> Good suggestion. Thank you. Okay. Hey, is there any other discussion on this before we move on? >> No. Okay. So then uh is there anybody opposed to receiving our delegations? Seeing none, then that's carried. Thank you very much everybody. Okay. Uh items for information. In the interest of time, we're going to hear all the items. Information 7.1 to 7.8 and then receive them together at the end. 7.1 accessible transportation AUD260001 response darts video privacy breach uh Michelle Martin will deliver the pardon me deliver the presentation thanks to the chair I'm just going to share my screen. Okay, good. So, uh, accessible transportation services was asked by the accessibility committee for persons with disabilities to summarize our response, um, and the response the contractor to the video privacy breach that took place in late 2024 and early 2025. Here's the uh background. though we have had discussions um at at uh committee uh before uh on about our early response to the matter. Um but for the benefit of everyone here, in November of 2024, accessible transportation services received notice from an individual stating he was in possession of vehicle security camera footage from a dart subcontractor and was planning to post them to YouTube. Police report was filed immediately. The information and privacy commissioner was notified. Cease and desist letters were sent and the office of the auditor general began an investigation between November 2024 and May 20th uh 2025. 36 videos impacting 22 unique individuals were posted. Um accessible transportation services staff used trip records to identify the individuals in the posted videos. These individuals were phoned and were then notified by letter. uh following complaints to YouTube from some individuals in the videos. As of May 2025, so over a year, all content from the channel was removed. No videos have been posted since and accessible transportation services staff cons continue to monitor the channel daily. So in summary uh the office of the auditor general and the link to the report is there uh for those who wish to read read the detailed report. Um the office of the auditor general uh report contained nine recommendations. So the first two recommendations had to do with proper installation and configuration of video surveillance equipment specifically by individuals trained to to install. Recommendation three um had to do with standardization of equipment uh with the same equipment that is being used by the transit division. Recommendation four uh spoke about uh a recommended monthly inspection of video surveillance hardware and software. Recommendation five uh recommended improved contractor procedures for securing and accessing digital video recording devices. Recommendation six spoke to the protection of invehicle stored videos with password and encryption protocols. Recommendations seven and eight um spoke to the revision of video storage from local that is on the device storage on the device to cloud-based with encryption using a VPN a virtual private network to ensure security during transfer from vehicle to storage point. And um recommendation nine uh spoke about the review of video records that were forensically retrieved from uh one of the vehicles in question to assist in identification of the individual responsible for the unlawful access of the videos. So here is uh the progress to date um steps that are fully completed. video surveillance equipment hardware and software specifications have been standardized. Um, this was done uh fairly quickly. Uh, the the contractor DART uses the same system as HSR and all subcontractor vehicle surveillance systems were replaced with the same equipment in 2025 and that is Seon CON cameras. Darts is now using a tool for the monthly inspection of video surveillance equipment accessible transport and that's part of their monthly uh preventative maintenance um inspection of each vehicle. Uh accessible transportation services is now using an internal tool to doublech checkck digital video recorder functioning. Whenever we review video as part of incident uh investigation ourselves, we double check the metadata in the video to ensure that it is um accurate and that the software has been properly configured for the digital video recorder. In early 2025, Darts took immediate steps to ensure digital video recording device security, including key control, software password installation, and a process for internally auditing their own and their subcontractor's controls. DART has provided ATS, and this was in 2025, with their comprehensive manual of video surveillance procedures and the related forms and signoffs for um relevant staff. Darts implemented password access for downloading of footage from digital video recorders and they verified this installation with an audit of all digital video recorders on vehicles used in service in April and May of 2025 and password access is limited to authorized dart staff only and that's recommendation six. Um, speaking to re recommendation nine from the office of the auditor general, staff completed a limited targeted review of forensically removed videos and those videos are going to be retained for as long as they may be of use to Hamilton Police Services. There's a large volume of footage to go through and so um, uh, we weren't able to determine any definitive information through the targetive review we completed. So, we've just uh we're just holding them secure for as long as they may be of use. >> Excellent. >> Thank you very much. >> Oh, I'm I'm not sorry. >> Sorry. >> Sorry. Through the chair. So, um now we have steps that are in progress. So, Darts is working on implementing and documenting a train the trainer model for installation and configuration of the digital video recording equipment um according to direction from the original equipment manufacturer and this resembles the training model that is used by the HSR for camera installation and that speaks to recommendations one and two in the auditor's general auditor general's report. Uh, accessible transportation services has investigated options for the secure wireless transfer of video data and will work with the contractor to implement. Um, there are concerns with using the cloud, but there is an option for uh wireless uh um video transfer that just goes directly from the device um to uh the shared network. Uh, and that's how it's done on the HSR. Um so we're investigating that imple implementing that with the darts vehicles. So right now we are um still uh completing transfer of video for the purposes of investigation via encrypted and password protected USB and this is acceptable as a a best practice but it is timeconuming and cumbersome. So, uh, next I'd like to speak to, uh, transit's enforcement of contractor privacy requirements. So, the current contract for service has been reddrafted and it includes language to address, um, uh, recommendations. Uh, oh, I don't know why it says both. All, it should say all recommendations from the office of the auditor general. Uh, and language related to the above recommendations will be part of any contract for service with any provider. uh related to the above uh uh I always state uh uh whenever speaking to management response to auditor general um recommendations that the office of the auditor general has not completed any work to validate the current status of the management response to the audit. Are there any questions? >> Sorry, jump you give me that look there. I just uh looked like you were finished there for a second. >> Sorry. >> Okay. Uh is there any questions for Michelle Martin? >> Yes. Um question. Other than the u the investigative uh use of the material, how long generally do you save the video? >> So video is currently uh available on the DVR for 30 days before it is overwritten >> unless some sort of investigation is warranted. >> That's correct. In which case then um the uh retention bylaw of the city would apply to the records. >> Are there any other questions? >> Yes, Tim. >> Just out of curiosity, is there anything that would prohibit uh uh a subcontractor from installing their own video device in their vehicle? besides that which is required by the city. I mean, is there anything prohibiting them from actually doing that? And how would anybody know if they did that inadvertently? >> So, I'm going to uh let the manager of operations for darts uh speak to that question, but I will say that um if you're an employee, then you are to be using the authorized equipment to accomplish your job. and um you would be um in breach of the law if you were secretly recording um people that you were providing service to as I understand. Um but I'm going to let John take over. Uh John Kitchen. >> Thank you Michelle. Uh in regards to your question, we do have a strict policy on the contractors using the equipment that has been specified inside the vehicles for the camera and the DVR equipment. We do have a hands-on uh audit program that our continuous improvement and compliance coordinator visits the subcontractors on a monthly basis and records all the findings. And if there's anything outside of that boundary, I'm notified and we'll address the issue. We haven't come across any additional video cameras or any other equipment. Just making tweaks or adjustments to the cameras themselves, particular particularly around the camera angles. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anything further, Tim? >> Mark again. I got Mark again, please. Mark, go ahead. >> Yeah, John, I was just wondering, do does an employer or contractor have to sign some sort of attestation that they will not use their own or a third party camera involved in a transportation or in in the unit itself? Like when they sign up for work, they have to sign that as part of their employment agreement. Thanks for the question, Mark. Uh, we do have a confidentiality agreement with every employee, the vehicle, and uh, the equipment in the vehicle. As far as specifically signing off for a camera or recording, I'll have to get back to you on that one. Confidentiality uh, policies in place. >> That should cover it. Thanks, Mark. Next up, we have Paula. >> Hi, John. Um, what is the policy for personal iPhone or um Android phones that can record and video? >> The policy is not to use any of those devices while you're in the vehicle performing your job duties. And again, that falls under the privacy uh policy that they sign off before they actually start uh taking on passengers within the vehicle. It's a part of their onboarding and training process. >> And is there anything to the passengers from recording in the van in the vehicle? >> I'm sorry, I couldn't quite hear you. Could you please repeat that? >> Sorry. Uh, is there any policy or procedure or anything to stop passengers from recording in the vehicle? >> Regarding passengers, I'll have to send that back to Michelle to answer that question. >> Thank you, John. >> So, uh, through the chair, we don't have a posted policy about recording on board the vehicle. Um but thank you for raising that question and we will take that back internally to consider. >> Thank you Michelle. >> Thanks Paula. And I see Mark for a third third time. >> Yeah Michelle in the absence of a policy only one person has to have knowledge of that camera. So they could use their own device without getting the permission of anybody else. So, it might be a good idea to develop a policy that would impact passengers >> uh through the chair. Thanks, Mark. Um, and absolutely uh we're going to look into that um right away. Uh I've never encountered it truthfully. Um that's not to say it hasn't happened, of course, right? Um but I understood the one party knowledge had to do with um audio recording. So, uh, I will look into that with, uh, the relevant city staff for for, uh, good direction there. Thanks. >> Thanks very much, Mark. Uh, any other questions? >> Tim, >> yeah. Um, further to Paula's question, I would be concerned if the city doesn't have a policy around passengers traveling aboard conventional transit to prohibit them from using cameras or recording devices on their own personal uh, mobile devices. I would be concerned if we tried to implement something like that for DART's passengers. Um, people need to be treated uh the same regardless of which service they're they're taking. >> And through the chair, to your point, Tim, I will be looking into that uh with relevant city staff and with HSR operations. >> Thank you. Uh, anything else? >> I'm seeing none, uh, I want to thank you, Michelle, for bringing us that report. Um, I'm sure people feel a little more secure knowing the the response. Okay. Uh, next up is 7.2. I am going to relinquish the chair to Paula >> again. Okay. I have the chance. >> You're going to have it for a while. So, >> I know. >> Okay. Uh, so built environments. Uh we met September 29th with Peter Seolles um regarding snow removal because we're just about to come up to the snow removal season. Um there were some significant concerns with last year's snow removal. Uh there was a slide deck put before council. Um and uh so we wanted to actually meet with roads and ask them what their response was and moving forward. Um when we met with Peter uh he uh explained that um they they agree with a lot of the issues we had. Uh they've taken a lot of the complaints and the uh slide decks from the previous couple years uh and put it towards coming up with a new contract with a new contractor. Um, unfortunately, it takes a couple of years from the time that they get a new contract to having the new contractor um, build the equipment required because as far as I understand, they're they're individualized uh, plows depending on what they're being asked for. So, um, they they have made some recommendations to their current contractor for the next year, uh, especially around things like bus uh, stops and whatnot. um but they really can't um say that they're going to be any major changes until 2028. Uh so unfortunately um we're going to see a similar snow removal this season. Uh another change they made is they've switched to a green salt which is a magnesium laced salt which burns all the way down to minus 18. This year we had some issues with the um polar vortex literally freezing things in place. Uh so hopefully this will help address some of the issues. Um as far as future meetings, we're still trying to um get uh construction redirection uh conversation going. Um there's a lot of construction redirection going on. A lot of it's being done poorly. Um there needs to be a standardized policy. Um and we've been chasing built uh we've been chasing uh public works on this one for a while. So hopefully I have some information soon. Um further uh we should hopefully have more information the next meeting, but the uh seniors advisory committee asked us to um track their snow removal motion u because they're going to be changing over from a volunteer advisory committee to a community liaison group and they want to make sure that it's still followed through. So that's built environment. Any questions on that? >> Do we have anybody with questions? I don't see any, James. >> Okay, then uh we can move on. >> Okay. >> Uh housing, uh there's two housing meetings here on the thing. Um on the agenda, I should say. Uh so the first one we met August 18th, and we worked with uh Cynthia Candy, who's a volunteer uh working group volunteer. uh she wrote an excellence um well what started out as a letter is turning more into a report on um social assistance rates and housing. Um and so we're still working on that. Um it's in a currently in a shared um folder form so people can add to it and we will get back to it at the next housing meeting. Uh next housing meeting we met September 29th. Uh it was just Robert and I. Um we we discussed some of the recent events in housing. Uh I also updated uh Robert that we're going to have to move this month's housing meeting um because at the same time period I'm attending a rent safe intersectoral round table on climate resiliency in existing housing stock and that's quite a mouthful on the 19th and 20th. So uh housing and outreach are going to have to move a little bit. Uh on October 28th, uh housing is meeting with Pillar Homerston regarding uh RCF modernization. Um they're going to bring uh terms of reference for um stakeholders or equity seeking groups. Uh and in November, we're meeting with Adrien McKenzie from city housing. Uh also met with the extreme heat working group this month um to review the last year's uh heat response. Um we're still working on uh better social Okay, we're back. Um, so I was uh working through the housing. Um, I have one last piece of business. I accidentally missed my first note. Uh, tomorrow I'm attending the housing services RCF modernization conference um of the different stakeholders and equity seeeking groups. Um, but I will have to leave early in the afternoon so I can go and attend the HSR accessibility event. So that's it for housing. If anybody has any questions, sorry, I know it's kind of split up because of the pause. >> I don't see any question. >> Okay. >> Okay. Outreach next. >> Outreach next. Uh, so we had a we had the accessibility fair and the awards. I thought it went really well. Um, we did our uh postevent wrap-up which is in the notes. Um, let's see. Uh, I I said thank you before, but I want to thank everybody again, the volunteers, the members, staff, um, exhibitors, contributors, um, people that attended, uh, my family, all of you, especially Lauren. Lauren um really really made sure things got going. So, I really do appreciate Lauren and all her efforts. I know she's not here at the meeting at the moment. Um we had some very brief discussions on the new fair. Uh next next meeting we're going to have to um set a date. Uh we'd also like to redesign the branding so we can move away from the blue and yellow bubbles. We've been using them for quite a while. Um, Lauren, I'd also like uh Comm's and ACPD to um be more combined going forward um so that we can work together for consistent branding um so that they're comfortable using stuff that we produce. Uh what else? Uh, Center 4 has reached out uh and would like uh to set up um a visit to their facilities, their printing facilities to um have us make suggestions to make it more accessible. Um they've invited uh Iris and myself to uh attend um a visiting artist in November uh so that they can explain what they what they have in mind so that we can set that up in the new year. And uh we have um an offer from um uh I can't think of his name at the moment. Um from McMaster Wilton, I can't remember his first name at the moment. Uh I think it's Rob Rob Wilton. Yes. Uh has offered us uh fourth year MAC research students um to work on accessibility projects. I'm not entirely sure what they're looking for as far as um research projects, but I'll be meeting with them on the 26th to find out more uh give them some background on the ACPD and I hope to have more information the next ACPD on that. That's it. Any questions? >> Any questions for James? No, >> I don't see anything. Nothing from the strategic planning, right? >> Okay. Strategic. Well, I do have a brief um I know that I know that some staff and clerks have been discussing uh the terms of reference and procedural guidelines um and and things that need to be changed to allow for training sessions or team building events. Um so hopefully we'll have um we'll have some work on the tour very soon to have SPWG meet and discuss and put in our input and feedback. >> So that's the update I have on strategic planning and that's it. >> Okay you can have the chair back. >> Thank you very much. I will take back the chair 7.6 transportation working group update. We have accessible transportation services poly review working group meeting note September 25 2026. Anything to add to those Paula? >> It wasn't me. It was >> to add to those Tim. >> Um >> I'm not sure what was sent out other than uh what Michelle sent out. So, I don't know if if uh the additional notes that I uh shared with Michelle were were shared with the group. I don't >> Yes, they were. >> Yes, they were. Kim, >> but the Sorry, I have to say that they're not on the agenda. All I have is the ATS policy review working group meeting. >> I think it was put at the bottom of Michelle's um I'm not sure. She did say she'd added whatever was there, didn't we, >> through you, Mr. chair to carry. Were those additional comments that I shared with Michelle, were they sent out as part of the package? >> No, they were not. >> Okay. >> So, then they should go out for the next month because I know Michelle uh amended her original notes, but um I think the additional comments should be shared. So, >> okay. So, we'll add those to the next agenda. >> Yeah. Okay. So, anything else to add? Um Paula on transportation? >> Not as far as I know. No. >> Okay. Uh then, uh open spaces and parklands working group update. Is there a verbal update? >> No. >> No. Okay. Then we're on to 7.8 accessible transportation services performance review Q2 2026. Michelle Martin will deliver the presentation. uh through the chair I have Owen Quinn, project manager Owen Quinn, who will deliver the presentation. I'm just going to share my screen and put the slides up for him. >> Thanks, M. Welcome everyone, uh members of uh committee and staff. I'll I'll try to keep this brief. Um I believe it was presented at the transportation working group, but uh yeah, thanks Michelle. Um so this report is for the second quarter of 2026. It's it provides information on year to date as well as specific to each quarter. Um the first figure on this report um it looks at system demand by mode. So typically the most of the demand is for the darts transit service. Um and taxis script uh is less of course. There was a growth though in taxis script um requests um it was actually as of Q2 2026 taxis script request um system by demand was 3.1% compared to 2.5% the previous year. So although dart still um is the majority of the uh demand uh for transportation um by mode there has been an increase in taxis grip. Figure two uh yes trips denied. So what we've seen um 2026 uh trips denied um there was actually in Q2 of this year 2026 trips denied was slightly less than Q1 2.9% compared to 3.0% but compared to 2025 trips denied is slightly higher um uh in this year. So uh next slide please. applications approved for service. This has been consistent um across the the periods uh the two years 2026 2025 applications approved around 90 to 92% respectively. Um it's it's been consistent with 2025 the figures we're seeing as I say around 90 to 92% of applications are approved. Um, next slide please. Sorry, Michelle. Back. Uh, number four. Um, figure four. This is calls answered by Darts. Darts service um level in terms of the booking center when a client calls Darts. How many calls are answered within five minutes? um what we've seen this year to date Q2 2026 it's between 75 and 80% of calls are answered within 5 minutes so this has been consistent with 2025 so it's um not much change there next please um in terms of calls abandoned by customers so this again when a customer a passenger calls he darts um a booking center. Um what we've seen is um in Q2 Q2 of 2026 there has been a reduction in number of calls abandoned. So um compared to Q1 of 2026 and also compared to 2025. So we're seeing less calls abandoned which is good. Um next figure is late trips. So late trips now there has been uh 2026 year to date there's been an increase in late trips um when compared to 2025 2025 in Q4 late trips were around 3,000 trips total. Um this has continued this trend has continued into 2026 where we've seen um in Q1 3,69 trips were late compared to Q2 347 trips were late. So there's definitely been an increase in late trips since Q3 of 2025. So that's something that we're hope is going to improve. Um on time performance ontime performance for darts um for this year for 2026 it's been about 98% all trips are on time. Now in um 2025 it was around between 98 99%. The industry best practice uh recognized by the Canadian Urban Transit Association is 99%. So darts you know was almost there. they were there last year. Um the minimum goal is 95%. That's the minimum goal that is established um in terms of on-time performance. Uh next, uh this is something we recently added this year as a request from members of the ACPD. Uh members wanted to know how many trips were greater than 60 minutes on board. So this is where the clients or the passengers on board time is on board the vehicle is greater than 60 minutes. So what we've seen ATS we looked at the data for 2025 compared it to this year. So for Q1 and Q2 of this year 2026 about 3.2% of all trips were longer than 60 minutes. When we look at 2025, um Q4 of 2025 was higher. It was actually 3.4% of trips were greater than 60 minutes. But there's definitely been an increase since Q1. Q1 of 2025 where trips greater than 60 minutes was only about 2.5%. So that's something um you know we're hoping is going to improve and that's something we monitor with darts. Uh next uh slide please. And this is the last one. Um this one this one just shows commendations um like compliments and complaints per thousand darts trip. So accommodations has been consistent. Uh when we look at when we look at Q2 2026 year to date compared to Q2 2025 year to date accommodations are 6. So it's been it's been consistent. However, however, with respect to complaints, complaints for Q2 2026 year to date are higher than complaints for Q2 2025 year to date. So, the complaints this year, uh, we're seeing an average of three complaints per thousand trips. Last year, 2025, we were seeing 2.5 complaints per thousand trips. So, there has been an increase in complaints. Um the industry best practice is one complaint per thousand trips, but I know from research and data we analyze, um the industry average in Ontario, probably across Canada for for specialized transit systems is about two two to 2.1% um complaints per thousand trips. So that's sort of the average that uh across the uh the country. So, but uh that is it. Thank you for listening. Um if there's any questions, um myself, Michelle would be, you know, happy to answer. Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Owen. Uh Paula already has her hand up. >> I do. I do. Can you hear me? Sorry. >> Y >> Okay. Um the late pickup, the time on board. Um would that have anything to do with all the construction accidents and that we've had through this summer? It can certainly um with respect through the chair um respectfully it could certainly be that does when you look at the policy for on board time it does specifically state that you know the contractor tries to min achieve the 60 minutes on board maximum but however weather traffic conditions etc exactly can uh have an impact on that that would also have could have an impact on late trips as well. So, thank you Paula for raising that. >> Yeah. And and is there any way we can figure that out? Because it it kind of muddles the waters when you don't know that the reason that you know they're late or they're on board too long. uh through the chair. Um I think we can probably uh take a look back at um late and onboard time data uh within date ranges tied to specific traffic events that we knew about or um ex you know large construction disruptions. Um we can do that sort of deep dive. Uh and uh I think I can um I can pass that over to Owen. I think that that's doable. and within the next few years it's going to get worse with the LRT and the construction. So I don't know um don't how we solved that problem. Michelle >> through the chair we are actually um we've already started tracking that we've started tracking um we've uh we are establishing a baseline for late uh trip data along the construction corridor and uh we'll be watching that closely. >> Oh, great. Thank you. Thanks Paula. Any other questions? I am not seeing any. Okay, then. Uh, thank you very much, Michelle. I appreciate that. Um, so may I have a mover and a seconder to receive items 7.1 to 7.8? Oh, sorry. We have a Oh, sorry. Are you putting your hand up for a question or are you moving? >> I'm with moving. >> Moving. >> Yep. >> I'll second >> and seconded by Levi. Thank you. So, is there any further discussion? >> Not seeing any. Then, uh, is there anybody opposed? That's carried. Thank you. Uh, it says relinquish chair. Oh, right. Because we're in the motions. So, I relinquish chair Paula. This is the terms of reference review. >> No, this is 9.1 advertisement campaign for the accessibility committee for person with disabilities. >> What about what happened about the >> We don't have terms of reference >> 7.9. >> We don't have terms of reference on our agenda, Paul. I'm sorry. >> Oh, well, this is the one that Okay. Okay. >> All right. >> Go on. >> Maybe you got to the wrong one. Sorry, Paula. >> Okay. >> Uh, so this, uh, motion, um, just to give some background, this is a leftover from the, uh, volunteer recruitment drive. Um, we purchased a three-month campaign. Uh, it was really good. We had to pause it after two months. Uh, the person that we were working with, the salesperson, retired, and so we kind of lost connection with Metroand. Um, and while we tried to reconnect it to advertise for the fair and the awards, uh, they didn't get back to us till just about the beginning of the fair. Um, so they told us that we still have a month left over, we need to use it up by the end of the year. Uh, it's already been paid for. Um, so, uh, the motion reads, uh, whereas the accessibility committee for person with disabilities previous purchased from Metroland Media Group a three-month advertising campaign for the working group volunteer recruitment drive as that was the minimum purchase. Whereas the committee found the campaign so effective they asked to pause after two months and this still has a month's advertising needs to be used by the end of the year. Whereas a new membership for the committee will be selected with the new term of council and an advertising campaign may be able to garner additional interest to provide a robust pool of applicants from which the selection committee can choose. Therefore, be it resolved that the accessibility committee for persons with disabilities request that the outreach working group work alongside of the SNAP leaison to put forth an advertising plan for Metroland media group to create a month's campaign to share information about the ACPD and the different disabilities the committee represents ahead of the recruitment by the selection committee for the new term of council. >> Okay. Um, who seconded this motion? Jame, >> I don't have a seconder yet. >> Okay. Can I have a second though for this motion, please? >> Thank you very much, Kim. >> Thank you, Kim. >> Okay. Sorry. So, I'm what? Moving to accept >> uh Yeah, moving to uh accept the um outreach working group work with staff to um to work on a advertising campaign for the ACPD. >> Okay. So, you've heard the motion. We have a first chain motion seconded by Kim. Uh any questions about the motion? Nope. Okay. So, can I have uh I guess we need show of hands or anybody against the motion that that it might. >> Nope. Okay. Motion carried. Okay. >> Excellent. Thank you very much, Paula. I will take back the chair. >> Your >> uh so there's uh no notice of motions. Um the 11 general information, other business. Is there any general information or other business people would like to bring up at this time? >> Yeah, >> I have one. >> Okay. Uh Michelle would uh has has a piece of information. Can we do Michelle first? >> Yep. >> Please. Uh Michelle, >> thank you through the chair. It's just a question for uh the accessibility committee for persons with disabilities. Darts does have a vehicle that they would like to show the committee members uh to have them try out and and provide feedback. Um in the past, we've done this at the transportation working group going back years now when when the working group was meeting in person at city hall. >> Um and so I don't know what the best option may be. Uh so just putting it to the accessibility committee um to consider you know uh how we can best support their uh providing feedback to darts on the vehicle. >> How soon does this have to be done? Michelle >> through the chair. I'm going to ask uh John Kohich uh for a timeline there. >> Thank you Michelle. We are looking at uh a new vehicle with a rear lift. Before we make that decision and moving forward, we'd like to have the feedback from the ACPD committee to look at the different option knowing it's a completely different style from a ramp rear lift. The reason for this is to go to a larger size lift so we're future ready for any oversized equipment as well. So, we would like to have this on-site demo vehicle by the supplier within the next month if possible. So, any available dates would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Back to you, Mr. Chair. >> Uh, any Sorry, James. Any chance that Darts could get a van and get people down to the dock office to look at the >> vehicle? Sorry. >> I think we could have >> Yeah. >> try and arrange. I think we can try and arrange to have uh the vehicle brought to a central location uh for people to uh visit. Even if is it possible we can set up in two locations to try and get uh are we able up the mountain and down the mountain perhaps or something like that? That's possible. >> Absolutely. We can look into both options, Mr. Chair. If there's some dates provided, I can reach out to the supplier and see if it's feasible to have it done uh within the same day or perhaps as two separate days. >> Then might I suggest that we pull the committee um and and see when everybody is available over the next month? I believe Tim, you have a question, >> question and a comment if I may. Um the question is might it be possible to ask some people with disabilities to take a test drive in such a vehicle because it's not just boarding in uh a lighting that's part of the issue or the space inside but it's the actual trip across city roads with plenty of potholes >> and uh people being bounced around all over the place. So um I think if if if ATS and darts is amenable, I think it would be better just simply test drive it. Don't just don't just show it. Um but that's my that's that's a a a comment or a question, I suppose. I have a comment. Many years ago, this advisory committee was consulted by ATS and Darts and this committee put forward a motion to council that we would never again buy a Lift device. Never. Period. Full stop. This committee was not consulted in the purchase of such a vehicle. Um, lift devices were banned by this city for the specific reason that people can't spend all kinds of time outdoors trying to board and and and alike the vehicle and lift devices uh cause a much much longer boarding and deboarding time. um uh with appreciation about size of vehicle and so on. Darts used to have vehicles that were large that uh had ramps. Some were at the back, some were at the side, some were both. Uh I don't know how we've I don't know how we've gone backwards by by allowing the purchase of lift device vehicles. Um it it's just it's it's beyond my comprehension that we could actually go backwards in time. Um it's regression at its best and I I'm if there's a question of do we accept them or don't accept them, I would be adamantly opposed >> uh through the chair. Um the point of the exercise is to provide u an opportunity for the um members of the accessibility committee for persons with disabilities to experience uh this model of vehicle. Many years have passed. Things have changed in terms of how the lifts operate as I understand. Technologies evolved. Um it is very much a concern um getting um oversized mobility devices onto the vehicle safely and so uh the lift is always um something that is a a possible consideration in terms of planning to make sure that we are able to safely service u members of the disability community who who um use larger mobility devices. So, uh, you know, the plan is to bring the committee to the vehicle or the vehicle to the committee, however, you know, we work it out. Um, and, uh, we can leave it to I'll I'll I'll maybe pass the baton over to John to talk a little bit about what might be possible in terms of arranging um, viewing the vehicle and possibly having a trip on the vehicle. Thank you, Michelle. Uh to clarify, it's on an existing Dodge ProMaster, which is the majority of our fleet. It's just that it's a different option to move away from the ramp where there are some restrictions, have a test vehicle brought on site, a demo vehicle. Nothing has been purchased at this point, but we just wanted to revisit this option with the ACPD to ensure that they're comfortable with it. Again, it gives us more flexibility to go from a 34-in wide device or ramp or lift to a 37in wide. It gives us more flex flexibility with oversized equipment uh which we do have a handful at the moment but again we would like to ensure that we're prepared for the future as we notice equipment is getting larger. So the intention of the demonstration was to have your feedback of the entire committee and see if it's a feasible option. >> Go ahead Tim. So if if I I have a question. If if a 37in wide opening is required, you need the 37inch wide opening for a lift device opening. You'd need the same uh dimensions for a a ramp opening. Um I don't know if you're aware but there will be a webinar on Thursday uh uh uh being presented by an organization called Aging Well um showcasing the recent research undertaken by CSA uh by the BC Institute of Technology on behalf of the CSA promoting wider ramps as opposed to any other uh design for entrance and egress of uh uh specialized vehicles. So um uh the upshot of that recommendation is those ramps be made wider for the benefit of all people with disabilities traveling on uh any kind of uh accessible transit vehicle. So I I I I still I I'm you know and I appreciate you know you're trying to look at other options but in this climate this climate is not made for lift device vehicles. Kim a couple of weeks back was taking a go bus and the only vehicle that she could travel on was a lift device go bus. And when the operator got the vehicle to Hamilton and tried to uh help Kim a light from the lift from the bus, uh the lift didn't work. It didn't work. >> And the driver had to literally throw the controller onto the sidewalk. Literally smash it on the sidewalk in order to get the lift device to work. And if the lift device had not worked, Kim had no way of getting off the vehicle because she was in a power wheelchair. So, uh, lift device vehicles is a regressive move. Ontario is moving to make all vehicles low floor with ramps because if a ramp can't be deployed automatically, at least there's always a manual option to deploy it. If you're on a lift device, you're stuck. You're out of luck. So I, you know, I'd be prepared to put forward a motion from this committee stating that we uh are adamantly opposed if we can get uh agreement from majority of members around this table that we are adamantly opposed to lift device vehicles for specialized transit or any other transit uh uh provided by people with provided to people with disabilities in this city. T. >> Thank you, Tim. Councelor Tyson, >> I appreciate very much uh the expertise that Tim's bringing to the table. However, I would I would prefer that the members of the HCPD actually see the device first before considering that motion. Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Councelor Tennison and Paula. I agree with the councilman. I think you got to give it a fair shake. Also, I'd like to know is this m this vehicle going to be reviewed by any other agencies with people with disabilities? >> Go ahead. >> I can Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh I can answer that for you your question Paula. Uh ACPD was the first committee on our agenda to review the lift option with and just to address some of your concerns there Tim uh I've reached out to the provider they have notified us that in harsh weather climates uh it comes down to the maintenance of the lift as well and there is a manual backup as well. So if anything happened with the mechanism or the power to the lift that there is a manual way to crank down the lift to allow the passenger to a light. So we we have looked into those options and again going back to the original request it was another option on the table for us to be future ready going through ACD ACPD first. We have not purchased anything at this point. So, I would welcome the opportunity to bring the demo down and show it to the committee. Thank you. >> Thanks very much, John. Are there any other questions or comments? >> Go ahead, Kim. >> Um, we also have buses right now. The whole back goes down and it's a big ramp and anybody can take their chair up the back when the buses the whole back goes down and it's a big ramp. uh through the chair. Um I'll let John speak to this in greater detail, but the other consideration is that um in many cases um the large mobility device has to be physically pushed up by an operator up a longer ramp. And so that is also a concern if John wants to speak to it. >> Uh thank you Michelle. Yes. Uh great point. There are concerns with larger ramps as well. I've reached out to multiple different providers and having something at that size of a 36 37 in is difficult for their engineers to come up with that. We do have a handful of vehicles with rear lifts that are currently 36 in. However, we're looking at widening that to 37. At this moment, the lift provides that opportunity. And as Michelle mentioned, we want to take into consideration the safety of the uh operator driver with the oversized equipment manually pushing them up the ramp. So we're looking at it from both sides, from the passenger sides as well as the operator. Thanks, John. Are there any other questions or comments? I'm seeing none. Uh okay. Um so then we're going to need to arrange for uh a meeting to visit the vehicle to arrange for test drive. Um Paula, you're the chair of the transportation working group. Would you like to organize this? >> Yes, sir. >> Yes. Okay. >> I'll get in touch with John and Michelle. >> Excellent. I'll I'll leave that with you. I'd be interested to tour and test drive if that's possible as well. >> Okay. I will send out a an email asking who's interested. I will get dates from John and Michelle and places where they're going to be able to uh where we're going to be able to review it. So, >> excellent. And then after we also get a chance to see it, then we can discuss further options for the ACPD. >> Exactly. We can't do it unless we've seen it. >> Yeah, I agree. Okay. Uh so, is there any other u discussion on this particular matter? No. Okay. Then we can move on to uh further other business. Now Michelle went first. I believe Paula, you had other business. >> I did. I have a question. Um I want to know the status of the trans of the transcription software that we were supposed to get I don't know maybe a year ago, year and a half ago, maybe two years ago. um what is the update on it and is it even going to happen before we change over because you know there's an election and then we have to reapply and all that kind of thing. So it would be nice to know if we the working groups will have some kind of transcription software to to help out with note takingaking >> through the chair. Um, I have no good answer at the moment. It is still moving through things, but I don't have a specific update at this time. Um, but I will inquire and I I can follow up >> and I have offered to pay for it if that is a problem. Okay. And the city can pay me back because that seems to be a a thing that that seems to be holding this up is how we going to pay for it or who's going to pay for it. So, it's out on the table. I will offer to put the money out there for >> Thank you, Paula. That's not necessary, though, but thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you, Paul. Uh, any other business to discuss at this time? I have a couple of things here, so if you wouldn't mind, Paula. >> Okay, I will take the chair. What are your questions? Uh tomorrow there is the HSR accessibility event um at the uh Marriott on Upper James at 6 p.m. Um everybody's welcome to attend to uh get updates from the various staff departments uh as well as ask questions. If people can't attend but have questions they like to ask, by all means uh send them my way and I will add it to the grilling that I give HSR every year. Uh, also, uh, accessible taxis came up, uh, beginning of September, late August. Um, accessible taxis, uh, are still not, uh, being addressed at the, um, bylaw department yet. Um, so we're still waiting to hear back on that. I just wanted to update people that, uh, accessible taxis is still working its way through. >> Okay. I will take over that one, J, too. >> Okay. Uh so that's it and I will take back the chair. >> That is sure and yes I will take back uh um the accessible taxes for TWWG. So >> okay thanks very much. Uh and so that's it for me for other business. Uh so now I think we're on to adjournment uh which is uh there's no being further business. This meeting is now adjourned at 5:46. So I want to thank you all very much. Uh it was a good meeting and I'll see you all next month.