One, two, three. Sound check. One, two, three. If I can call this meeting to order. Um, good morning. We have quorum present. The meeting has been called to order. We have councelor Tatis and councelor Clark in person online. Councelor Morin Wilson, councelor Alex Wilson, councelor Wang, councelor Cooper, councelor Crutch, um, and myself who will be chairing today. There are no ceremonial activities. Um, as you all know, turn your electronic devices to non-audible function. And I need a mover in a second to approve the agenda as presented. Councelor Tison, Councelor Clark. Thank you. Are there any amendments to the agenda from committee members? Seeing none, show of hands, please. That carries. Thank you. Moving on to declarations of interest. Any declarations? Seeing none, we'll move on to the approval of minutes of the previous meeting. 5.1 July 30th, 2026 and 11.1 close session minutes from July 30th, 2026. May I please have a mover and second to adopt the open and close minutes of the July 30, 2026 meeting. Councelor Clark, Councelor Tison. Thank you. Um, no discussion. hand vote and that carries. Just give us one sec. I'm going to move my seat here so I don't have to keep turning around and look at the screen. That's better for me. People at home are going to be disappointed they can't see me. Oh, they still can. That's too bad. Too bad. Moving on to delegations. Item six. Members are reminded that questions of the delegation are for clarification purposes only and not for de debate. Just want to confirm that we have our delegate online. We do. 6.1 is Rachel Row. Hopefully I didn't butcher your last name. If I did, I apologize. from Rosewood Equestrian uh respecting a request to have the seized development charges bylaw amended to allow for an agricultural use development charge exemption without a farm business registration number if there is an Agric exemption for startup farm businesses. That was a long one. Rachel, whenever you're ready, you'll have five minutes. Please go ahead. >> Hi. Yes. So, I've been discussing with Agra Corp uh back and forth for quite a few months now. Uh my fiance and I purchased our farm in December uh 2025. So of course we were unable to get the FBR at that point. Um we have been back and forth with Agra Corp about you know getting the exemption and everything like that and we've been doing different things to kind of get that going. Um one of the things that you know we know that isn't included in agricultural licensing is uh horse boarding. So we have bred our uh one of our mayors and we would like to open up a brood mare facility. However um you know the thing is is with the uh exemption or without the without the exemption being honored uh it's hard to provide a big like facility and stuff to be able to do that kind of stuff. as well as we have gotten a lease for 10,000 with um another farm to use our hay. We have 66 acres on our property and about 35,000 or 35,000 35 acres of um hay. So, he has leased that out. So, the thing is that we can't get our FBR until next year because they only do it once a year. So they had mentioned to us with section 27B that the it should be applicable without an FBR if there's an Aggro Corp exemption for a startup farm business. Um which we are. So >> that's what we like. >> That's what we would like. >> Thank you uh Rachel for your delegation. Um just going to look around to see if there's any questions from any of the members. Yeah. Councelor Wang, please go ahead. Hi, thanks Rachel. So, um, just give us a little bit of a history on your plot of land. So, it's, uh, you have 66 acres. What was it before you purchased it? And now that you're starting this up as a farm business, what's the what was the previous use, if you could? >> Uh, it was a hobby farm. Uh, they did use the fields that we are currently using for hay for soybeans. Um, so there was a farmer that used to do all of that and now the farmer that used to do it has given us uh a guy for hay, his number. Uh, so I have spoken with him about doing the lease for the land for 10,000. Um, and it was just like a hobby farm as well for like goats, pigs, sheeps, and stuff like that. So, >> okay. So, I'll ask a couple of questions to staff at that at the appropriate time, but it sounds as though if it was a hobby farm previously where there was animals, there was some sort of stabling um but maybe not for horses. Um, so I'll have to I just wanted to get a better sense as to what it was previously. And so, when do you expect to get your farm business registration, your FBR, right? Is that what that stands for? >> Yes. Yeah. so that they give out the first or they typically say you have to make $7,000 the previous year in order to qualify for the following year. Um we had originally wanted to kind of get all this done in the fall. Um and now we're kind of headed into winter. So we would love if the exemption could be honored because then we can get this all done prior to the winter. Um the previous owner did have an FBR uh as well but I have learned that that is per person not per property. So >> Oh I see. And then so what is your through you chair just a question around the development charges that you are seeking for that exemption? Uh what were you quoted at if you don't mind sharing? >> It was $455,000 and and change. >> Thank you very much. Thank you for your delegation today. Thank you, Chair. >> Thank you, Councelor Wang. Councelor Alex Wilson. >> Thank you. Uh appreciating your delegation. I just have a couple questions to clarify uh some of the some of the information shared and just get a better understanding of the resolution you're seeking. So, when you said um they said that this could be done via um a kind of a startup business exemption, who is the they? Was that the kind of the provincial farm business registration people said that or I'm just trying to understand who directed you? Was that city staff saying, "Oh, we could do that and we'll make an amendment." I'm just trying to understand kind of that pathway. >> So when I was discussing with Agric uh we had talked to a couple different people there. Um so they had said it as well, but as well Kendall from uh she's a senior financial analyst from the city of Hamilton. when I was speaking with her, she had mentioned that when she was kind of going through everything, she's like there's kind of a gap in the system where there's not really an exemption like that you can't exe ac accept an exemption and everything. Um, so then she had mentioned to me that speaking with her boss, they were kind of like this has only happened once before and those people ended up paying the permit. Well, the structure itself is costing like around 500,000. we can't just bring that all the way up to a million dollars just for the permit. Um, so both of them had mentioned that there's not really something specifically stating that you cannot accept uh an exemption and that there's a gap. So then I had asked I'm like well if this excuse me continues to happen like you know are you guys going to put that article in there? And she said if it does happen we'll have to revisit it. So my kind of question is why can we not revisit it as I'm see searching for that? >> Well, thank you very much for that added clarity and just so I better understand the the barrier here. It's largely a timing and maybe a flow of income issue for you. So you're trying to set up a farm business where there's previously been a farm business and appropriately zone land to have a farm business. But in order to run the farm business you would like to run, you have to do some development on the site. You have to get a building permit. Um, and so rather than operating a farm business that could happen on the site as is, getting a registration for getting $7,000 of income in year one, then going through the development process, and then in year two or three being able to start maybe more the business you're seeking by getting that waiver, you're saying, "Hey, why can't the business I'm trying to build that this building is associated with get that exemption?" So, is it a timing issue? Whereas, if you had run a farm business here, already had a registration for you, you would be exempt. But you're trying to maybe get these things. So, you're not uh just doing $7,000 to say, "Hey, you're cash cropping on the existing. You're trying to move forward with the farm business you're trying to Is that kind of why you're hitting this barrier?" Is reasonably so. You're trying to move forward and kind of getting at the farm business that you would like as opposed to the farm business that's maybe historically been there and that transition time is causing you to be in this gap. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. I through you um chair I'll just say I I'm in a bit of a gap here. My understanding is that one of the reasons for the registration um and I'll ask this is a question to the delegates to essentially prevent someone from saying hey we're going to set up this business give us free development charges and then them not doing that business or them using it for another site. Do you I'm in the community I think you can understand there's probably a need to balance. Do you think there's a way to kind of meet that balance differently um given your request? So you're saying, hey, there should be a process. There should be some way um basically to not just take people at their words maybe, but to be able to exempt people who are really trying to set up a business in the community and not just kind of saying they are. Do you have some thoughts on how we could explore that exemption? So we can still protect rural farm uses. We can still make sure we're collecting development charges and not just people saying, "Well, it's a farm business. I don't have to pay." Um how but understanding that you're asking for flexibility in a reasonable way. How do we maybe do you think how do we approach that conundrum or how do we approach that difficulty >> that difficulty >> and it's okay if you don't have I'm just kind of framing that to you >> sorry are sorry me >> yeah if you >> sorry I thought you said somebody else's name >> yes >> sorry uh just through the chair is the formality that's all apologies >> okay sorry um very sorry so yeah I mean we have our um structures. We have everything currently with our contractor um stating out. Now, I do fully understand that, you know, it doesn't always kind of seem like it might be on the property. We do currently, we have created um an outdoor arena on our property as well. We have staked out currently where the barn structure is going to go um where both structures are going to go. We have our current manure pile out. you know, I've created all these different things for um future for different things like brood mares and um spoken with my the hay guy as well about um all that kind of stuff. And considering as well we do have our um agreement with getting the 10,000 for the hay and everything. And speaking on storage, that's where that storage will be as well as like our tractors and all of that kind of stuff throughout the winter. taking people at their work. >> Thank you so much. I really appreciate uh both your delegation and some of the clarity you've added as to kind of some of the barriers we're facing. Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor. Councelor Clark. >> Um Chair, can I ask does the delegate have all of the interactions, the emails back and forth when she was trying to get the FBI? Does she have copies of all those emails that we could see? We do have a copy of >> I do. Yes, I have copies. I'll just have to quickly Most of our um communication was through um sorry, it was through phone call. I do have the >> And to clarify, you can't get your farm business registration because they only hand them out once a year. Is that what you were told? >> No. Uh, it's basically that you have to make $7,000 the previous year. >> Yes, I know. >> And then the following year you Yeah. Then the following year at some point you can get your FBR. >> Okay. So that's the challenge. You haven't made $7,000 yet. >> Correct. Because when we had moved in last year was December 12th. So >> Okay. Well, chair, at the appropriate time, I'd like to ask some questions of staff. >> Thank you, councelor. Any other questions for the delegate? Seeing none, uh Rachel, thank you for coming in today. Um if you want to step off and then sign back in to hear some of the questions that are asked to staff, you can do so. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Um move her and second to receive the delegation, please. Councelor Clark, Councelor Tatterson. Um, that'll be a show of hands vote. Thank you. Um, do committee members want to ask staff questions now in regards to the delegation? >> Perfect. Uh, councelor Clark, you could start and then we'll uh councelor Wang and councelor Alex Wilson, you both want to be put on the list. No, just Councelor Wang. Perfect. Councelor Cart, go ahead and then we'll follow Councelor Wang. So, I'd like to start by asking general managers Garrick, you heard the request. I think it's a little bit unusual, but um can you give us some guidance and input through the chair? Uh Mike Garrick, general manager, finance, corporate services, acting city manager. Uh agree that these are unique uh circumstances. um our development charge bylaw in order to qualify for an agriculture exemption. Uh the development charge bylaw does require a farm business registration number and you heard from the delegate uh as a startup. They don't meet the requirements currently for our farm uh business registration number. Um and recognizing the intent of our development charge exemptions is to support and encourage agriculture development. Uh one option for committee beyond the option of receiving the delegation. Another option is to direct staff to report back uh with options in terms of amending the development charge bylaw to uh capture startups, agriculture startups who may not meet the current requirements and that is to have a farm business registration number. and listening to the delegation uh this morning, it sounds as if they will not qualify for a farm business registration number until the winter uh or after. Um we as staff can look to rep bring a report back in October. Uh and so that may help to speed up or facilitate the development charge issue and allow for the pulling of a building permit rather than waiting for a winter or subsequent uh delivery of farm business registration number. Thank you. Um, can I ask in that report back if we request that as a committee, um, can you include also um the potential ramifications of us making the amendments to the bylaw? What what's the risks therein? through the chair. Uh we can in terms of the financials, but beyond the financials, how do we ensure that it is truly agriculture activity outside of the urban area and uh as well uh that uh if it captures residential uses or other uses, how do we isolate as it relates to uh agriculture uses? So we can we can uh work towards achieving that in a report back. I'd like to hear from the rest of my colleagues, but the concern I have is that, you know, in the province of Ontario, it's always been you you have to verify that you're a farm. So, you get a farm business registry number, but only after you've proven that you're actually farming and making money as a farm. And um my colleagues laughing because we know farmers who barely make enough money to put bread on on the table. Um but I'm I'm trying to understand how we do this in a in a manner that is consistent with that policy that has been there for as long as I can recall. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Clark. Councelor Wayne, please go ahead. Thank you. I appreciate councelor Clark's line of questioning because it just strikes me that we're we might be doing things out of order. Um so through you chair 2 GM uh city manager Zagaric if we were to make this exemption what is the time frame on us opening up the DC bylaw doing the necessary studies to to do that work to actually get this exemption put in or or am I just missing out on a or have I just missed the the process? There's a way to do this quicker. acting city manager through through the chair. Uh because this is a reduction to the DC, it would go through the simplified process if we' uh we would forego the 60-day requirement process, >> counselor. >> Okay. So then what would that look like then? What would what is the simplified process and if you could >> through the chair? The simplified process is we would present options to committee. Uh again, we would look to try to have this turned around for the next committee date uh start of October and then it would be uh subject to the deliberations of committee and council in terms of the options uh and effectively the decision of committee and council would would inform um the potential for a development charge exemption. >> Okay. So, I'm also mindful that after today, we only have one more committee meeting followed by one more council meeting before we're in our election blackout. So, um should this not happen, then we're really looking at December being the first one with new council. Is that right? >> Through the chair, our our intent is we will work towards a October date. If we cannot achieve that, we'll work with clerks to see what our options are. But our intent is to work towards bringing this uh report back if directed today to the October committee meeting. Councelor Wayne, >> I'm at a bit of a loss because um we're coming at the end of our year. Um and just as councelor Clark had mentioned, this is the this is where I think that we're we're trying to figure out um getting like following through with the regular process with the farm business registration. So, I think I will just leave it at that. I think I just need to noodle on this a little bit more. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, counselor. Uh, councelor Tatison, >> just wanted to ask uh our bench, the $7,000 is there for a reason. Can you can you expand on that reason why there's a $7,000, you know, you have to make that the year before you apply and get a farm business license or >> someone have the answer to it? >> Through the chair. I don't know why Agra Corp requires it. I don't know. I don't know that any of staff know the reason why Agra Corp requires that uh that financial threshold in order to qualify for a uh business number. Okay, I'm just going to throw this out there to the benches as well. I know that through the um rural Ontario development grants process, we're looking at ruralwide city improvement areas for rural farms and businesses. Could this become part of that larger scope >> through the chair to create a sea would require public consultation and it's a more involved process to create a community improvement sorry for the acronym a community improvement plan area. Um I sense the time sensitivity as it relates to this particular uh it is staff's recommendation that staff report back with options for committee to consider uh and for future discussions if there's an interest to create a sepa I would suggest that would be for future conversation >> counselor. >> Okay. And then I would just like to request that in that report, as councelor Clark stated, what are the risks for us opening this up in light of like other people in rural areas that have similar situations? And um is there a risk to us as a city if we give one exemption? So counselor when we get to a point that someone asks for a report back then you want that added in >> I bet. Yeah that's okay. Yeah. >> All right. Well we can do that. I don't we have to I I would say we would need direction to staff. So if that direction is provided and uh we can add it in and then approve then staff will I'm sure be able to bring that back. >> Thank you. >> Councelor Clark for a second time. Any other first time speakers? Good morning councelor Paul's welcome. Uh, council clerk, go ahead. >> Thank you, chair. So, this is an agricore policy. It's not a city of Hamilton policy and we require an FBR for discussions with regards to development charge exemptions. Is that a fair reconciliation of the process? through the chair. That's correct and accurate. >> And I understand um the urgency for the resident um to answer councelor Tatison's question and I think councelor Alex Wilson would be the only other one that would have this situation. Um, we have many residents living in who have moved to the rural area that weren't born in the rural area and quite frankly many of them don't understand agriculture because they've never had to deal with it. But they would love to have the exemptions. You know, they want to pay less taxes. They argue they're a farm. It's a hobby farm at at best. um and they want development charge exemptions to build incillary buildings on their property. Um, I worry that if we change our policy to we would consider developing charge exemptions on farm businesses that have not received the FBR that we're really going to open ourselves up to a plethora of applications that in the normal process would not be approved. So, I'm truly concerned about this and I I don't want to have our staff go away and bring back a report um that we know is going to be challenging for the city of Hamilton. It's not our process. The FB number is provided from Agricore. when Agricore provides it, then the resident can come to the city and request the exemptions. Um to do that before that point, um we're taking on some significant potential liability. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Clark. Uh any other questions? >> Councelor Tison, go ahead. I really I'm just wondering if this is a situation that the egg and rural committee would need to um would you think that councelor clerk? I'm just wondering if anybody on the bench would or the clerk would know when our next egg and rural meeting is correct >> through the chair. I believe the next egg and rural committee meeting is the 23rd of September. >> Councelor Tatter. >> Well, I'm just thinking on the fly here and just wondering if this is something that we could and I'm guessing the word is defer to to that committee for consideration. >> You want to refer the delegation to the subcommittee? I don't know that we can. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, through the chair, there's nothing to refer because it was a verbal um understoodation. >> Okay. I'll just leave it at that then. I'll uh retract what I've just said and talk per in personally to them. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor Crutch. Go ahead. >> Sorry, I might have just been resolved. I was going to suggest that perhaps the person's counselor can bring this information forward in terms of a motion at a future meetings. We're not trying to do motions on the fly in response to delegation, something we've really committed not to doing at this term of council. So, whatever the resolution is, I think there is a resolution here potentially. There's some policy review that's needed. There's a place to do that. I'm just suggesting that the person's counselor or those involved in the rural community could bring this forward at the appropriate place in time in the form of a motion. Thank you. Thank you. Seeing no other speakers, we've already move received the delegation. So, we'll move on to items for information. Uh I'm looking for a mover and secondary. And we're going to do all these items at once. Councelor Alex Wilson, Councelor Wang, we good? Okay. First item 7.1 PW24070B water meter program audit and water billing service transition project. Any questions for staff on this report? Director Winters is here. Councelor Wayne, go ahead. >> How are we doing? Um because I still receive a significant amount of complaints around some of that transition time. So I wonder um actually I probably should have followed up a little bit further, but yeah, I think like if how how are we doing with it when it comes to the water billing? Because I still get a lot of concerns about that. Director Winters. >> So through the chair, Nick Winters, director director of the Hamilton Water Division, uh to the councelor, uh the report, the information report here in front of you is in response to an audit uh from the corporate uh auditor a couple of years ago uh with management recommendations and it's specifically related to the meter program um supporting that. Uh I believe that what you're referring to is the Hamilton utility billing transition. Um taking water billing from electric utilities into the city. Uh and there is a report later on the agenda about that from the hub team. Um so suggesting that probably questions about that would better align with that report. >> I mixed up my items. Sorry. Very. Thank you very much, director. >> Anybody else on this report? Seeing none, director, thank you. Uh, next up, PW24071B, storm water asset management, investigation of recent sewer sewage leaks audit. >> Ala, councelor Wilson. >> Thank you. Through you, chair, just one question in response to uh recommendation one page three of appendix A. It mentions that uh 104 102 uh sites were identified for sampling. 60 samples were taken back. I'm just wondering if the results of that sampling have been previously reported to council and if I could be directed to where that reporting of the results was if that's been um presented. >> Director Winters. >> So through the chair um I'll lean on uh Shane McCaulay, director of operations uh who's uh with us here virtually. Uh I do recall that we've reported results of that program in an independent annual report about um our enhanced sewer inspection program but uh Shane if you could provide some more information >> sufficient I can follow up from there. I can I just wanted to make sure I that the results were there and if I wanted to find them I could so I can look at the annual report then that thank you. >> Thank you counselor. Any other questions on this report? Seeing none, we'll move on to 7.3 FCS26042 2025 development charges exemptions. Any questions? Councelor Clark. So, we have this report, $78 million in development charge exemptions, which supported the development of 3600 residential units and 1.7 million square ft of non-residential development. Do we ever have a reconciliation as to whether or not this actually provided benefit to the taxpayers of Hamilton? 70 $78 million. It's a lot of money. And if you equate that to tax increases of 1%, you're above five. So I'm I'm trying to understand how we justify I guess is the question through the chair. I don't recall um the city ever undertaking a broad economic assessment in terms of the direct or indirect benefits of our development charge exemption. As the council identified, it does facilitate um some development uh as well as employment lands. In many of the cases, there are statutory. They're not discretionary exemptions. Uh so uh with respect to the city's uh flexibility to um step out of that space there is no flexibility notwithstanding the understanding what the benefits of those statutory exemptions are. So uh again in summary we haven't undertaken a broad review. Um to undertake a broad re review we would uh need to partner with our colleagues in economic development and do some surveying and some assessment. Um again the ability for finance to assess it is principally in terms of the development activity that stems from um the statutory and discretionary exemptions. It would be possible to in that type of study indicate which were the DCs that were mandatory if if I can use that terminology, prescribed would be a better term from the province of Ontario to municipalities. But all of the other DC exemptions which are discretionary in nature and we believe anecdotally to be creating development. We have no way of knowing that >> through the chair. Uh we do know in terms of the development activity that occurs, but we don't know what the direct the spin-offs of that development activity. Of the 70 just short of $78 million, the majority about $63 million is tied to statutory exemptions. 14 million are the discretionary exemptions. Um there are some tools simple tools that uh that we could employ to say for every unit it creates certain number of jobs, direct jobs, indirect jobs. I know those tools are available but those are just very broad sectorwide. They are not Hamilton specific assessments. >> Um chair I think I'll take it offline with general managers a Garrick. um even the discretionary ones still represent a 1% increase in our taxes every year. And so, um, there should be some way of doing an economic study and it may prevent or may cause the province of Ontario to re-examine whether or not the mandatory prescribed exemptions um are actually having an economic spin-off, an economic benefit to the community. because as it stands right now, property taxpayers are paying the bill here and it's a lot of money. Thank you. Any other questions on the report? Seeing none, we'll move on to 7.4 FCS 26038 community benefits charges reserve status report as of December 31, 2024. Any questions? Seeing none, 7.5 FCS26039 Parkland dedication reserve status December 31st, 2024. Any questions? Seeing none, we have a mover and seconder. Uh, this is a show of hands vote. Pleased to receive items 7.1 to 7.5. That carries. Thank you. Moving on to items for consideration. 8.1 HUR26002 standardization of Parklane Systems Inc. Mover and second to approve the recommendations in the report. Somebody, anybody? Uh, councelor Paulus, councelor Crutch, any questions on this report? Councelor Clark, please go ahead. So, this is standardization. Um, I've raised concerns in the past about the potential economic cost to the municipality through standardization. So someone explain to me why they believe this is necessary. >> Director acting executive director of human resources Yakov Slankov. Um we've been using this particular tool since 2010. Um we've got a lot of our employee data. The tool has been proven very effective and very costefficient and uh is used by over 300 other organizations uh in in Canada um and we believe provides very good uh value um as we provided for in our recommendation um with 12 month uh before the expiry of this standardization we intend to undergo again a comprehensive review of whether uh going out to market and going for an RFP is appropriate. Um, hopefully that answers your question. >> How much does it cost us annually? >> Without the uh through the chair, without the additions that we're asking for is $67,000 a year. >> And so when would the review occur? In essence, look at whether or not we go out to market >> through the chair. Uh so 12 months uh within 12 months of the expiry of the 5 years we will come back. >> So 5 years from now >> from four to 5 years from now because we would come back uh within 12 months of the expiry. >> Um thank you. I I still we keep doing this and I've not seen any economic justification for standardizing we should be looking going to market as fre frequently as we can. I consider um the work that conservation authorities do and every time they spend money and I'm not talking about buying coffee for a meeting but when they're spending and and um requisitioning a significant chunk of change it goes out to tender three bids are required and then the CA makes a decision. I know it's a it can be aggravating for procurement um but I don't think we're getting the best bang for the dollars for residents if we are not going out to market on these things more frequently that is than is being proposed. So, um I'll support this one um as it goes through because in 5 years, four to five years, you're going to do that. But to to the senior bench, we we have to require more frequent market justifications for these these costs because what I'm seeing is when we standardize, costs go up. and they can do it because they know we've standardized. So, we have to be careful. Thank you, councelor. Uh, no one else on the speaker's list. This is an electronic vote. Uh, so we'll go to the vote now. Thank you, councelor Pauls. Councelor Cooper, we can't see you. If you could just verbally let us know if you're in favor. >> I'm not there. >> You are also muted. So, you may have to unmute yourself. >> Yeah, in favor. Can you hear me? >> Yep. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And that carries 8 to one. Thank you. 8.2 to HUR26010 standardization of e-learning authoring software citywide mover and second to approve the recommendations in the report anyone councelor crutch councel Wang councelor Clark similar to the last one do you want to >> y >> all right go ahead >> oh I've already made my comment so I'll just have my vote and be silent Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, let's go to the vote. >> Councelor Cooper, are you in favor? >> Favor. >> Thank you. >> That carries 8 to1. Thank you. 8.3 FCS26067 2024 city of Hamilton external audit planning report going to call on the acting city manager for the favorite part of the day um GM Zagaric city manager Zagar go ahead >> through the chair uh thank you uh it was just in June that uh Paul Chapana from KPMG uh and and I'll be corrected I'm sure if I pronounced that incorrectly so apologize to Paul in advance. Uh presented our 2023 audited uh financial statements. Uh Paul's here before audit finance admin committee to present our to the committee today. Happy >> run through it. Uh just as a high level um happy to be back so soon from your end. I know uh when we presented in June. >> Paul just one sec. >> Yep. >> I seen a message on there. No, can the people online hear us? >> Can someone just confirm? >> We we can now. Uh thank you. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> Perfect. Um I don't have control of uh the presentation. So do you want me to just say next slide? Okay. Perfect. Um so yeah, like I was uh like I was saying uh nice to be back so soon from year end. I know when we presented back in June, it was a few years since we presented a plan. Um so happy to be here getting started on 2024. We have started 2024 which is great. Um, and we're making uh great headway and great progress as we make our way through. So, as required by the Canadian auditing standards, we're required to share with the committee our audit plan um and open it up to any questions or concerns as a result of that plan in terms of our KPMG contacts. So, the next slide, our team has stayed relatively the same. Um what we have included again for this year is additional uh resources from the IT and cyber side um as well as actuarial um support uh from Greg Winston and Luke Prawn on the audit highlight slide. So page four at a high level um our scope for this audit plan is the consolidated financial statements. So this audit plan is not for the specific underlying standalone audits but for the consolidation as a whole. And you'll note that as we go through uh the the planning report, materiality has been set preliminarily at 67.7 million. Those are based on 2023 actual numbers. Uh so when we're doing developing this plan, um obviously 2024 numbers are not yet. Um well, the trial balance has been received by us, but we haven't audited them. So we'd like to use what's been actual from the year before uh to provide those numbers and set that benchmark. Uh from a total consolidation perspective, we're testing 100% of the total assets and 100% of total revenue. Um on further slides, you'll note some of the out of scope areas, but those are not material for the uh entity as a as a whole. We also outline uh as per the Canadian auditing standards risk of management override of controls um presumed fraud risk from revenue recogn recognition. Those relate to government grants and development charges. And then other significant areas that we look at are operating expenditures and asset retirement obligations. If you'll recall 2023 um there was the implementation of the new standard for asset retirement obligations and we're continue to work on that for 2024. So really what's going to change in 2024 is the assumptions um any actual information that's been received that could update any of the estimates that were created for 2023. And then other risks and material misstatements include uh investments and related income, employee future benefits, tangible capital assets, salaries and benefits, and accounts receivable. Next slide. Uh we're looking at updates for the current year in terms of accounting standards and auditing standards. So obviously, so not as big as a lift in 2023, but for 2024, there are some new standards that are coming into play. Uh that's PS3400 uh the new revenue recognition standards um intangible assets so purchased intangibles public private partnerships and accounting for those um those are all being worked with with city staff and management to see how they would impact the financial statements. Um on first blush what we're seeing with a lot of our municipal clients is not too much of an impact. Um I would say revenue would probably be the largest that may impact but again not nearly as big as um the financial instruments or ARRO standards from prior year. And then auditing standard wise there are changes to uh the consolidation um or the audit of group financial statements. Uh city staff should not feel any of these uh impacts or changes. Um it's really just for us internally in our documentation and beefing up some of our our um our documentation in the file. on slide seven. So the materiality slide, uh I would just like to highlight again as I mentioned is 67.7 million. We're required to look at a few different benchmarks. So we've looked at total revenues, total assets, and total expenses. Um you can see they're relatively in line with where we would have been in the prior year. Um this year, consistent with last year, we selected total revenue as the key benchmark. Um so we're at 2.8% 8% of total revenue from the 2023 actual results. This is in line with the Canadian auditing standards requirements and uh um and ranges. We also note at the bottom of that slide the component materiality for the city of Hamilton non-consolidated um as this is also required a required disclosure for the committee to understand that uh when we audit the city stand alone it's at 60.9 million as opposed to the 67.7 million. Next slide is the involvement of others. Um so here we're relying on management's experts for the employee future benefits and actuarial results. uh we then engage our own internal actuarial specialists um to look at those assumptions um that they've built into their models to make sure that they're appropriate and then from our KPMG involved professionals as I mentioned our own actuarial um specialists and our IT cyber security specialists. So 2024 was the year of the cyber attack. So again we need to really involve um our IT and cyber team. Um but at the end of the day, our approach is going to be relatively consistent to 2023. So it's going to be a fully substantive audit. Um we've elevated the risks associated with various accounts that have been impacted by the cyber attack resulting in additional sampling and scope of work uh from a substantive approach as opposed to relying on any controls. Slide nine is the group scoping. So here you'll see all the entities that make up the consolidated financial statements. Um what allows us to um get through uh that consolidation relatively quickly is the fact that we audit a lot of the uh standalone entities as well. So allowing us to rely on those audits and roll them up into the consolidated statements. So really what we're working on right now is the standalone audit for the city um and making sure that those get complete um and then we can roll in all the different uh all the other entities that roll into it. On the next slide, slide 10, you'll see the composition of total assets and total revenue just to show that we are getting that correct coverage. The next slide on slide 11 is your risk assessment summary. There's been no change to the prior year um as a result. So, if you were to compare this to 2022, you would see a lot of base risk associated with um these different uh accounts. And what you're seeing in 23 and 24 is the elevation of those risks. So what that means for us is just additional sampling um in order to get comfort and to issue a clean opinion on the financial statements. And I'm not going to go through the the following slides. Those ones really just go through um our approach for the different areas and and key accounts. Uh what I did want to go through was slide um slide 20 which is required inquiries of the audit committee. Um I'm not going to go through these questions during the meeting right now but I would like invite um any members of the committees that could have potential answers or comments that they would want to make to me directly understanding that there may be sensitive information. Um, if city staff is not aware of anything that maybe I should be aware of, I invite you to reach out to me just to let me know if there's anything that could impact our 2024 audit. The next slide goes through our key milestones and deliverables. Um, as I mentioned, we've started our planning and risk assessment. Um, hoping to wrap that up um, shortly in the next week or so to get through the planning and risk assessment stages. And then as we move into September, uh we've received a lot of information from staff, a lot of reconciliation and uh listings, and we're going to start pulling samples and start sampling uh as as we make it through the next few weeks, hoping to then uh move into uh the completion section and stages as we near year end. Um so to Mike's comment, uh the goal is to get 2024 wrapped up in the next uh in the next two months. The next few slides speak to KPMG's uh um attention to audit quality um and also our independence uh where we maintain our independence of the files. And then from an appendix perspective, we've just included some additional information that would be relatively consistent to what you would have seen in 2023 um for um any updates in uh standards or any changes to accounting methodology that would be uh of uh importance to the committee. So I'm not going to go through those. Um you guys have the report if you want to look through it, but I think I highlighted the key issues in terms of the audit audit planning report for 2024. Thank you. Thank which handles invoicing and payments and was identified as unreoverable requiring management to implement temporary processes for invoice receipt processing or payment. How do you audit something that is done? afterwards they didn't have the records so they had to create the records. >> Exactly. So what we do is we look at the book ends. So that's why 2023 was so critical. So what we'll be looking at is the ending 2023 balances which we've audited and then we'll be relying on the city to show us how they've created a complete and full listing similar to what we did in 2023. And then we would then go back and see what the city recreated and audited it and compare it back and audit it and compare it back to um bank statements um third-party support. Um we'll look at invoices. So what we've found that the city's been able to do is go to vendors, go to customers, get that third party third party support that's been lost and rebuild the data and information. So nothing we're looking at is just internal. Everything that we're looking at is third party. >> Okay. I suspect you need a lot of Tylenol on that one. Um, separating liabilities into financial liabilities and non-financial liabilities. Can you help me? cial liabilities. Okay. Um the next one it says a new provision whereby an entity can use an amended budget in certain circumstances. >> So when I'm reading that that >> Sorry counselor, I'm going to stop you for a second. I think we might have lost connection. If you can just hold. We're going to double check our connection now. Sorry about that. Always happens when I have the perfect point. >> Yeah, I know. >> We can see I can see you now, but it keeps cutting in and out. So sometimes the video will cut out, then audio cuts out, and then audio comes back, then video comes back. So it's a very unstable connection coming from >> We're We're working on it. Just give us a sec. >> We haven't audited that yet. Okay. Um, we're going to try to move forward here and if it cuts out then maybe we'll take a recess. You can hear us online. Just a thumbs up. Perfect. Councelor Clark. Uh, hopefully our our little trick there worked. But go ahead if you didn't forget. >> Oh, I didn't forget. Um, under summary and implications changes in accounting standards. It it struck me as odd a new provision whereby an entity can use an amended budget in certain circumstances. So my mind we approve a budget. We go through a budget process. We approve the budget. It's signed off. That's the budget. >> Correct. >> You can't amend the budget. The budget stands. you can demonstrate what you're spending or what your what your revenue is as to reconcile back to the budget, but the budget numbers don't change. >> So, so how I don't understand why this would be even a possibility and if it is a possibility, are we using it on city budgets? So through the chair um when you think of the public sector standards it goes a lot broader than just municipalities where what happens is even municipalities though in some circumstances they'll approve a budget but let's say something significant happens during the year that significantly impacts those approved budgets and there's an additional opportunity to change or amend the budget to better track or better facilitate what's happened throughout the year. you're allowed now under the new standard to use a more upto-date budget um if that's happened or if that's occurred. So there are other organizations outside of municipalities that aren't as strict on the on the budget approval side that where we've seen a more upto-date or more um uh important a more um I would say uh realistic budget for comparing it to actual results because sometimes when a budget's made too soon things happen and then those budget amounts don't translate to the actuals that have incurred and you'll see huge swings between the actual and the originally budgeted numbers. Have we done that in or are you considering that in the 2024 budget and your audit of the budget and the spending and the revenue? >> So, I've not considered it. that would be more of a management's decision if they feel that an updated budget or a reapproved budget would be more applicable to the financial statements. And then at that point, we would then engage in discussion to see if it makes sense to use that different budget. But typically what happens is the approved budget is the approved budget and that's what you see in the financial statements. >> May I make you an inquiry of staff? >> You can. So you heard my inquiry to Mr. Chapana. H have we or are we going to see a modified budget >> the original that was approved. Sorry for cutting off councelor clerk through the chair. We did not amend our budget in 2024. In my 25 years at the city of Hamilton we've never brought forward amended budget to council. I would imagine there would have to be catastrophic circumstances for a municipality to amend the budget. You can imagine the challenges of of amending the budget, sending out revised property tax or water rate uh bills out to property owners. Um I don't know of a municipality, but not saying that it hasn't happened, but I would think it would have to be catastrophic. Now, we do council does in year make amendments in terms of investment strategy, but you typically do that through reserves that do not amend property taxes or water rates. It doesn't require a change to the budget, but uh again um my 25 years here, council has never been asked and staff have never recommended amending a budget in here. >> You can understand my inquiry given that we just experienced a catastrophic issue with our finances. And so it's there's tremendous um trepidation in the public because we're going into an election and we don't even have the audited financial statements for 2025 and we're now going through an audit for 2024 and we're having a 2026 election. There's a lot of suspicion as to why that is happening and as a incumbent counselor I'm having challenges explaining the rationale for all of this and why we don't have this information. So when I read here that there could be a revised budget after the fact um that just added to my nervousness. So, can you address some of those issues because the res residents are very seriously concerned about this >> council? I'll put you on for a second time. >> Yeah, I'm done. >> Thank you. Go ahead. >> Okay. >> Through the chair, I appreciate the challenges for for committee as well as the public with respect to our lag as it relates to providing financial reporting. Uh I will say we provide some financial reporting in terms of variance reports but I understand we haven't been in a position to present our auditive financial statements. we have a a a pathway going forward, but that still uh means a delay until 2027 2028 when we're back into a typical uh reporting period. with respect to the additional risks as relates to the cyber incident uh needing to ensure that uh there is a independent assessment in what you've heard from KPMG is they've expanded their scope for 2024 as they did for 2023 to do a more wholesome assessment of the city's financial statements. Um again, Paul is here before committee to hear from committee to answer any questions from committee. Uh it is not staff's role to intervene in those those discussions. And so I appreciate Paul being here today. Uh again, Paul has extended out the invitation. If there's any committee members who want to reach out directly to KPMG, they can do so and we we respect that and honor uh that uh that relationship. But to the general public's um concerns with respect to uh the state of our financial statements, again uh I can understand uh the frustration. I can understand the confusion. Uh we do have a pathway forward. I would uh just ask for some continued patience as KPMG and the city work towards the delivery of the 2024 2526 statements. uh we do provide some financial reporting that is public financial reporting as it relates to uh variance uh statements but I appreciate those aren't audited by an external auditor. Um so so through the chair u I hope I've answered the question but if there's any subsequent questions happy to try to answer those. Thank you. >> Thank you councelor Wang. Um, we were having some audio connection issues. I I think maybe councelor Clark had asked that question around um the uh we have cyber, but I think just as GM Zigar has said they're doing an extended audit of all of the third party vendors. Did I catch that correctly? >> I believe you did, but I can ask for confirmation >> through the chair. Um it's an extended audit of the city financial results specifically. But what that entails is an addition an additional sample selection. So an IND uh increase in scope that could result in um additional vendor support. >> So not the we're not auditing the vendors. We're just increasing the scope of the information that we're auditing internally for the city. >> Okay. >> Councelor, >> thank you. I think so. Then um how does it work then? Because we've outsourced a lot of our finances out to other vendors. So if we're not auditing the vendors and their processes, you're asking for additional samples then to to get a more wholesome picture as to how 2024 rolled out because I'm thinking about like Deote did a lot of our stuff. Um so how do we how do we map that to our 2024? um given that we had that big cyber security incident >> through the chair uh councelor Wang. So um although Deote manages the process, city still has oversight and responsibility for that information. So it's still up to city staff to pres um provide that information um and give us the support that we need. Obviously, Deote is involved in obtaining that support and helping with reconciliations, but at the end of the day, it's all going through city staff um and understanding those internal processes. >> Thank you. And uh Mr. Capana, when you were doing your presentation, you specifically highlighted slide 20, which was the required inquiries of the audit committee. Um there are a lot of questions on this particular slide. So, what is the best way to engage on this? Do you are you is the expectation to have one-on-one meetings with us or are you just waiting for us to get a hold of you? Like what's what does this look like >> through the chair? So, typically um I engage in many conversations with city staff uh city auditor um and other individuals within the the city team. Um, as I mentioned, if there's anything that maybe the city manager um or city staff would not be aware of or, you know, would not be aware of, that's where I would open it up and say, "Please reach out to me, send me an email, call, whatever. I'll be available." Um, but for the most part, what we typically find is city staff is aware of that information and has um already provided the information to me. As I mentioned, I do meet with the city auditor regularly just to understand what's in the pipeline, what's coming up. Um, and the city and we also have meetings with city solicitor as well just to make sure that we have the most up-to-date information possible that could impact the 2024 audit. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for your uh for your presentation and also all of this hard work because it's a lot. So, and also you're going to get this done in six months time. >> We're hoping before your end is uh is the goal. So, uh we're in a good on a good track record right now. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council. Thanks, Councelor Wang. Councelor Moren Wilson. >> Thank you. Uh I appreciate the questions of my colleagues but I'm sorry I am going to uh have to burn up a little bit more time here with a repeat from the uh auditor um two questions. Could you just please once again review um that your extended audit as a consequence the extended scope as a consequence of the cyber does that um practice um ex go to the 2027 point or is it or is it complete after this one? I just need confirmation. Thank you >> through the chair. The expectation is that the expanded scope will continue for 24 and then 25 will reassess and hopefully be able to reduce the significant risk levels down to more elevated or base levels which is more consistent with other municipalities. So, uh to answer your question, um we're hoping it's just for 2024. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, and if you could once again uh from a high level characterize what that means in in relation to the um external uh vendors and what your relationship with them. You're you're doing just sort of variable um assessments and assurance counts or could you just once again repeat that process? Thank you. >> For sure. Through the chair. Um essentially the audit that takes place is we'll select samples from different account balances. So various invoices or um what other what other sort of information is built up into the GL systems. Um what the expanded scope means is now we have additional samples that we would need to select. So let's say there's a balance of $100 million. Typically we would test 100 invoices. But now that there's a significant risk associated with it, we might test 250 or 300 invoices. Um, and then because the information was lost via the cyber attack, city staff, actually for 2024, there should be all the support there. But for instances where support is not available to councelor Kark's question, city staff is going out to the vendors and requesting that that third party support just so we can validate it. >> Thank you for clarifying that for me. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you, chair. >> Thank you, counselor. Any other questions? Okay. Um, we are done. Do we have a mover and second? We do not. Mover and seconder, please. Councelor Wang, Councelor Alex Wilson. Uh, where am I here? Got to receive the presentation and approve it. So, we'll go electronic vote, please. The vote is up. >> Councelor Pauls, are you in favor? >> Thank you. >> And that carries 9 to zero. We are moving on to 8.4 4 FCS 23063C revised tax and rate operating budget variance report as at December 31st, 2023. Mover and second to approve the recommendations in the report. Councelor Crutch, Councelor Wang, questions. Okay, seeing none, we'll go to a electronic vote and the vote is up. Councelor Pauls, are you in favor? Thank you. >> That carries 9 to zero. Thank you. 8.5 FCS26069 tax and rate operating budget variance report as of May 31st, 2026. Mover and second to approve the recommendation in the report and receive the correspondence. Councelor Crutch, thank you. Councelor Paul's, any questions? Seeing none, we'll go to the vote. The vote is up. >> That carries 9 to 0 8.6 6 FCS26066 2023 city Hamilton trust fund financial statements. Mover and second to approve the recommendations in the report. Councelor Tison seconded. Any questions on the report? Seeing none, we'll go to the electronic vote. Vote is up. That carries 9 to 0. 8.7 FCS 211082N hub operational stabil stabilization and customer service support measures. Mover and second to approve the recommendations in the report and receive the correspondence. Councelor Wang, Councelor Crud, thank you. Councelor Wang, you want to speak? Go ahead. >> Thank you. Um, this was my original question which was how are we doing? because we do have an outsourced customer service team that is with Optima. Um, I'm still getting a lot of concerns and questions and resident uh complaints about uh the customer service here. So, I wonder if I could have just a quick overview as to how Optima is doing and um how long we planned on continuing to use them given that the correspondence is also asking whether we could consolidate some of our customer service teams. So, uh, through you, chair, not sure how, uh, who to direct that to. >> We're going to start with the acting city manager and the GM and all those other things he's got going on. Go ahead. >> Thank you. Thank you. Through the chair, and then I'll invite manager Farooq if there's some additional information to share. uh staff recognized that the transition from Electra to the hub team has caused some disruptions and there's still a backlog of some of the customer service calls. And to that point, staff are recommending that we extend waving the penalty and interest as it relates to water billings from September 30th through to January 31st. Where we are, we are trending in a positive direction. We've uh provided some additional uh support to Optima to address the backlog of calls as well. City staff have taken on some of the back office uh functions in order to alleviate uh some of the demands on Optima to allow Optima to address uh current issues and try to resolve those issues in a more timely response. With respect to um continuing to have a partnership with auto or with Optima, we are continuing to have a partnership with Optima. We expect to continue to have a partnership with Optima to uh transition off of Optima and bring the service inhouse would be beyond just a human capital requirement. there would be a technology requirement uh that the city would have to embark on and that would not be a simple requirement that would take some time and effort. We did go through a RFP process as it relates to this work and the city's internal uh team did bid on that process. uh that process was open, transparent, came before committee and the public. And uh with respect to going forward, we'll continue to assess the relationship with Optima, assess our service standard with Optima. If staff identify a need to transition away from this relationship, we would report back to to committee and council. >> Councelor Wang, >> thank you. Could you remind me again of how long our contract is with Optima, please? uh through the chair. This I will have to refer to manager Farooq if uh manager Farooq can remind me. Thank you >> manager. Whenever you're ready, go ahead. >> Uh through the chair, the Optima contract is for two years and we are continue renewing it on a yearly basis. So their next renewal is uh on May 1st, 2027. >> Councelor Wayne, >> I truly appreciate Manager Farooqia has been very very responsive to a lot of my resident inquiries as well as spending the time um chatting with them. I think that my concern is that um it's been it's it's kind of gone through a bit a couple of cycles now. um residents are still telling me that they're on the phone and waiting for like anytime anywhere from between 40 minutes and 4 hours. So it's it's something that like what is our mechanism to give feedback to Optima um because residents are still very concerned about one they don't feel that they're getting the right customer service that they're looking for. Two, they feel that the the customer service they are receiving requires a lot of back and forth and a lot of bouncing. So there doesn't seem to be enough of a knowledge there. So uh so what is that mechanism for feedback to give to optima? Are you chair? >> So through the chair maybe I'll start and then I'll ask manager Farooq to speak to the details of the regular interactions the city has with with Optima. Uh the city does recognize the disruption that this has have this has had on rateayers and we apologize uh to rateayers. Uh we have worked with Optima to provide some additional targeted resources to improve the response time. As I mentioned previously, city staff took on some responsibilities, back office responsibilities to allow Optima to focus on the customer service experience. uh but I'll invite manager Farooq to speak to more of the details but uh I can assure committee that there is frequent and regular uh interaction between the city uh assessing the performance of Optima and working with Optima to try to address some of the performance issues. Thank you >> through the chair. So uh we do have with Optima uh leadership meetings. We have it at least twice a week with them. We do have regular daily meetings with Optima to monitor their stats and provide them guidance how to uh redeploy their staff to ensure that we provide the best customer service. We do have quality assurance calls as well that we monitor. So we are targeting to do at least uh two hours of quality assurance calls with them to ensure they're providing the best customer service. uh we have increased their staff to see how uh we can monitor the calls and ensure they have been taken uh the calls on a timely basis. Addition to that we have also added FAQs on the um IVR messages to ensure if the residents are calling they do get their answer. We are also sending FAQ letters to the residents along with their invoices. >> Councelor Wang a final question. >> Yes. My last question is around how are we doing that customer service feedback amongst our own customer service teams um in particular I know um we had a walk-in that not to ward 4 but to the counselor offices where the resident had experienced a significant error on their hub billing but was bounced around between our customer service to the hub team to and ultimately it was just a poor for um reflection of how we are dealing with customer service. So how are we also integrating that Optima experience, our own customer service teams, our own frontline staff and ensuring that the resident experience is something that is um higher quality and and related back to a good level of customer service. >> Manager >> through the chair. Um a very good question. So you know as you know it's a it's a very large transition that we have done from electra to inhouse. A program like this does take at least minimum of six months of stabilization. So we are constantly ensuring uh that we have lunch and learn meetings with our council staff members to ensure that you know we do get the feedback from the residents what exactly challenges they are having so we can improve that. Uh we are constantly reviewing uh FAQs. uh we are constantly asking optim as well the questions that they have uh been uh receiving from residents to ensure we can incorporate that. We're also working on some uh portal videos that we have seen like identified challenges to ensure that we can have that on our website and those can uh assist the residents to ensure how to log in, how to check their accounts. So we are making some changes and we are taking that feedback very seriously. But having those lunch and lunch sessions have improved a few of our concerns within our internal staff when a resident is coming to front office or they're calling the council how to answer those questions. >> Thank you. >> Councelor Rang, do you want to go on a second time? No. Okay. Uh, councelor Clark. So before I forget about it, the question that councelor Wang asked with regards to the individual that showed up at the office here and a significant amount of money was taken out of his his or her bank account and they called Hub, waited online for the crazy period that you have to to get to someone and no one in Hub was seemingly wanted to deal with it. And so it got elevated to the manager, then it got elevated to financial staff before it could be corrected. Why is it that the hub office seems to think that everyone that's calling in that says their building is incorrect, they seem to think that that person that is making the call is incorrect. Why don't they look into the billing to see if there's a possibility that yeah, something went wrong here? >> It's a serious question. I'm I'm not I don't make things up. This actually happened >> through through the chair. I'm happy to start and then if if manager Farukq has anything to add. Uh we do understand there have been problems with with the transition and the hub team have um identified where from time to time there could be a error with respect to reporting and where a particular billing cycle was duplicated. And we look to improve processes to avoid those types of issues on a go forward basis. and there is some sampling and some assessment to try to mitigate those circumstances. Uh, and we truly do apologize to all property owners. I can appreciate if someone has their water bill withdrawn for uh on on two occasions for a month that could have a very material impact and we look to mitigate that. If if a property owner has non-sufficient funds now as a result or charges, we look to compensate the property owner for that notwithstanding the stress that uh that that experience may have. That's an example I know of where uh staff where we made an error with respect to the cycle. Uh that was one occurrence, but we look to mitigate that going forward. I will say uh from time to time um elected officials do forward on uh issues to to staff. We look to turn those around in 24 48 hours in terms of resolving those. Uh but again uh our our assumption is not that the property owner is trying to um do any fraudulent activity to the city. We understand this has been a a challenging transition and we are learning through the transition as it relates to errors that that we've committed. Uh but as well trying to help property owners through some of the the tools that manager Farooq spoke to including the FAQs. Um because we do understand property owners are trying to reach the city through multiple channels. They'll call Optima, they'll call the customer contact center, they'll call elected officials. And so we can understand that uh one issue can evolve into multiple interactions between the rateayer property owner and the city. So in the report chair it indicates that there are 160,000 water race waste water accounts across the city and in the transition it was 800 to 900 calls a day and then it's now dropped to 800 on average over 3 and 1/2 months. So, we're looking at between 80 and 95,000 calls coming in on 160,000 accounts. So, do we have any statistical data as to whether or not those calls are repeat calls from people trying to resolve it because they couldn't get it resolved the day before and they keep calling or um can we somehow identify them as specific to the account and how many times they have called? It's difficult from these statistics to ascertain whether or not there's a real issue. And these are 80 to 90,000 unique individuals who are calling in with concerns and complaints about the hub building or whether or not they're 80 to 90,000 people who are calling and calling because they can't get through and they're online for an hour or more waiting. through the chair. I'll I'll start and then manager Farooq will provide uh more meaningful detail than I will be able to. Short answer is yes, there will be repeat and not only to the hub team but to then to the customer contact center to elected officials. uh we do look to uh try to identify if there's some common themes and then we enhance our FAQs and we direct property owners to other ways of of educating themselves informing themselves to try to alleviate the demand on the hub team and our customer contact center and elected officials and then maybe I'll invite uh manager Farooq to speak to um more specifics uh specific ific evidence as relates to repeat calls and how we are trying to uh mitigate the number of repeat calls. Thank you >> through the chair. Um so um as of April 13th when we launched the program we were receiving for the month of April we were receiving around 444 calls in an average that calls increased to 983 averagely in the month of May. And then as of uh July we have seen a significant drop which is 550 calls averagely on a monthly basis. Sorry on a daily basis we are receiving 550 calls for the month of July. Having said that because now we're in the fourth month it was a transition. It was a transition for the residents to understand how to read their bill how to register for their bad how to log in for their portals. So we have seen a significant drop from the day we started and this time we are at four months of our billing cycle. Having said that um we have seen there have been repeat callers um which we are constantly monitoring to assess how we can rectify their issues or concerns. uh one of the themes that we have seen for these scholars are for pre-authorized debit and that's where we are working on a uh portal video for our residents that we are targeting to have it completed uh by end of September to ensure that is available for residents to log in how to log into the portal and they can see their bills. So we are making those changes to ensure these call volumes would drop off but we have seen a significant improvement from the day we launched to as of today. >> Thank you. >> So when you're indicating that there's been an improvement, how are you ascertaining that just because the numbers on phone calls have dropped? Cuz that may not be an indication that you've resolved anything. That may be an indication that they're exasperated and gave up >> uh through the chair. Uh yes it's a very good question. Uh absolutely you're right that maybe they have been not getting the answers but we are doing quality assurance for optima as well. So when we see those quality asurances when we hear the customer service rep uh connecting with the residents we do see they have been resolving their issues. Example, if someone is calling to ask them how would they like to register for PAT, they do walk them through or we are trying to uh when we respond back to the residents, we do hear back from them that their issues have been resolved. So those are the facts that we are looking at in order to identify if their issues have been resolved or not. Thank you. If through through the chair if I can just add the other metric we look at is the number of accounts that are in a rears and the trending down of accounts in a rears would suggest that uh customers are becoming more familiar with respect to the transition or that we are resolving issues but that's another meaningful metric to to assess. If customers continue to be in a rears then that would suggest that there's an ongoing issue with that particular customer. Um my last question is more of a statement. I I am disappointed that we did not have the automated payment program ready and we had so many issues implementing it and we are just now creating the portal for people to go in and see exactly what's going on. We had years knew this was coming. Like I I don't understand. And I I'm I'm struggling here to figure out what exactly Optima was responsible for and what staff was responsible for. And I don't have answers to that question, but um I will be having additional discussions with staff. Um it it it I don't think the customers have been well served in this process to date. Now it may be improving um but it should have been improved uh in the very beginning because this is not our first foray into that type of billing system. Thank you. >> Thank you counselor. No further speakers on the list. So, we'll move to the electronic vote. That vote is up. That vote carries 8 to 0 8.8 CM26017 Build Community Strong Fund Program 2026 intake applications. Mover and second to approve the recommendations in the report. Councelor Wang, Councelor Crutch, thank you. Any questions? Seeing none, we'll move to the electronic vote. Vote is up. That carries 8 to 0 8.9 GSC26-003. Mover and second to receive the grant subcommittee minutes from the meeting held on August 26, 2026. Approve the recommendations contained within the minutes and receive the correspondence. Councelor Crutch, thank you. Seconder, Councelor Wang, thank you. Any questions? Seeing none, we'll go to the vote. Electronic vote is up. That carries 8 to zero. Moving on to motions. 9.1 Compassionate Grant flooding from rainstorm events. Councelor Tatison, introduce your motion and your second, please. There were two and there was one earlier in the meeting. >> So through the chair the correspondence was received as part of the report. So the chair did ask for a mover and seconder to u approve the recommendations within the report and receive the correspondence. >> Thank thank you clerk. Councelor Tison go ahead. Thank you, chair. This motion is moved by myself and it's seconded by councelor clerk. It's a compassionate grant flooding from rainstorm events. Whereas residents of the properties in the city of Hamilton have experienced flooding as a result of rainstorm events occurring on July 21st, 28, 2026 and August 2nd, 2026 and have incurred cleanup costs and property damage or loss. Whereas council desires to provide a compassionate grant of up to $2,000 for resident losses due to water damage and basement flooding for residential properties affected by this rainstorm event. And whereas the compassionate grant will rely on the eligibility criteria as established and attached hereto as appendix A. Therefore, be it resolved that a compassionate grant be established for the rainstorm events of July 21st, 28th, and August 2nd of 2026 for all affected properties within the city of Hamilton. that the eligibility for the grant be determined under the eligibility criteria as attached at appendix A. That the compassionate grant be payable in amount being the lesser of $2,000, the level of the resident's insurance deductible, or the resident's actual expense and loss incurred as a result of flooding. The payment of the grant be based on compassionate grounds only and not to be construed as admission of liability on the part of the city of Hamilton. that the costs associated with these grants be funded from the Stormwater Reserve 108010 and that staff be authorized, if required, to retain an independent adjuster for the administration of claims under the compassionate grant and that these administrative costs be funded through the storm water reserve 108010. So, chair, I'm aware of about a dozen families that have made claims, and I'd like and I would think that there may be several dozen more that this motion could help in a small financial and compassionate way based on the paths of the storm through our area this past summer. Many of the families have insurance deductibles in the thousands of dollars and and top limits on their insurance which don't cover losses beyond 20,000K or 25K. I'm aware of several families looking at costs between 50,000 and 100 thou 12,000k losses for their flooded basements. The compassionate grant is very specific and limited to essentials destroyed as listed in the appendix attached. There is a precedent for these compassionate grants for flooding in other areas of this city that we have supported this term. And I would like to thank staff for their quick turnaround and support in drafting this compassionate grant motion. I thank committee for their consideration and recognizing these efforts by the city will be appreciated by these families. >> Thank you, councelor. Um, councelor Clark, >> I thank Councelor Tison for drafting up um this motion and sharing it with me early in our discussions on it. And I seconded it. I second it knowing full well that there are several residents in our community who that $2,000 um is a neg negligible or nebulous amount of money compared to their actual losses. I have about a half dozen residents um who may have their first claim. I'm not sure whether or not they have a $2,000 deductible or not. Um, the insurance companies have changed it dramatically in recent years and increased deductibles into thousands of dollars, not just 2,000. Um, I have residents in my ward who cannot get flood insurance now because the floods have happened time and time again. And I understand that the city can argue through their claims process that uh the city has no liability. Um but I would suggest in the rural communities there is liability if we have not cleared out the swailes along the sides of the roads. If we have not cleared out the culverts and the pipes going under properties which create backlogs that create significant floods, then we have culpability. Um I guess under common law the argument is municipalities don't have that that um liability. Uh, but when I'm looking at at least two houses that have been virtually destroyed by flooding and they're on a flood plane and they were approved to be on a flood plane and when they bought their properties, they didn't know they were on a flood plane and the property owners before them didn't know they were on a flood plane. And it goes down the line. Um there seems to be a need for this municipalities and others to uh communicate directly with insurance companies and the provincial government with regards to transparency on these things. If you're buying a property, you should be able to find out that it has been flooded and it it's doesn't seem to be a requirement. And so I'm struggling because I can tell you walking over to two residents who had their homes destroyed and saying, "Well, I can get you a $2,000 check." Oops. No, sorry, I can't because it's for the deductible that you don't have. Um it it really will be heart-wrenchingly disappointing for them because they're looking at a catastrophic loss in both houses without any insurance coverage. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Clark. Councelor Moren Wilson. >> Thank you. If I could ask a question through the chair to staff. Um how does this how would individuals who uh have been affected by a flood whether um from significant and quick rainfall andor a break in a a large break in a water man in a residential neighborhood? How are they notified of uh grant any grant program such as this? through the chair. Um, I'll have to confirm whether or not uh we typically provide a media release uh whether we post it onto our risk management or city website. I apologize. I don't know specifically what the communication strategy is, but happy to circle back with staff and share that with all of council. >> Um, thank you. If I if I could just leave the following suggestion perhaps for further expl exploration and I'm apologize to the mover of the motion. My experience uh with this in relation to um a water mane break for example was um there wasn't an official city of Hamilton notice that I could provide. It was very um it it almost looked and I can't recall the specifics. I apologize. It almost looked like it was a an external vendor who was seeking to engage with the resident. So I ended up going doortodoor to door every door in the neighborhood and attached my business card just to give folks a piece of mind that this is what not someone soliciting services. And the response that I I received back was um some didn't um in the absence of that business card, they just thought it was a a door-to-door sales uhtick. So I would appreciate I think um if we could give some thought um to how we are uh distributing and um the how it's framed that in fact this is clearly from the city of Hamilton this opportunity for a compassionate grant um because it you know it does put um it it may be deterring people from participating in it if it's not clearly uh indicated where it's coming from. Thank you. I'll leave that with you. >> Thank you, Councelor Wilson. Any other questions? Councelor Alex Wilson, go ahead. >> Thank you through you, Chair. What's the funding source for the storm water reserve? How does money go into that account? >> GM Zigerk through through the chair. uh typically through year-end variances uh in water and more specifically wastewater billings. >> Thank you. So it's a rate funded reserve >> through the chair. That's correct. >> So rate payers are the funding source of that reserve. Are all Hamilton residents rateayers >> through the chair? Uh no, not all uh Hamilton residents are connected to the water andor wastewater system. >> Thank you. Um through you, chair, could you comment on if this is an appropriate funding source given that nature? Um should it be tied to only rate connected properties? Is the general levy I'm not opposed to providing flood relief if that's what we want to do as a council. I am incredibly opposed to funding it from a stormwater funding account that we already know doesn't have fair or stable funding to it. Um so to further kind of this when we know it's already not a fair system. Um I think I have a deep issue with and if we want to do this I think there's better funding sources. But I'm just wondering from the GM's perspective where we do have reserve purposes um if there could be some commentary either from the GM or the director of Hamilton Water if this is an appropriate use of the reserve or if there's maybe a more appropriate reserve that could be substituted. And again I I'm not trying to ask them to opine but I am trying to does it match with the reserve policy. If they're indifferent that's a fine answer. Um but just trying to get that opinion. >> Jim Zerk if you want to start and then if Director Winters has anything to add. Go ahead. >> Sure. Thank you through the chair. uh not knowing the claim claimments and whether they're connected to the water and wastewater systems, uh I would suggest it's an appropriate reserve for today. If we discover that uh the claimments were not connected, one option is for staff to report back and amend the financing strategy to be our unallocated capital or tax stabilization, one of our discretionary tax levy reserves. Councelor Wilson. >> Thank you. If there's no additional commentary from staff, um I'll let others if there's anyone else on the speakers do that, but I' I'd seek to actually move that amendment today that we just go to the um sorry, the general t um the general reserve that was mentioned that we often use. I think that's a much more appropriate source given that this isn't currently relief isn't part of our typical storm water program. I think if we wanted to amend our storm water program to say 1% of all storm water fee goes towards a reserve for relief and then everyone kind of is paying into it so we know that reserve exists but I worry about using a reserve when we're not paying when we're not budgeting into paying into the reserve to make sure that there's that amount and so for this instance it's not going to be a big a big dip but if we did this every year for every flood um we're not paying into it at the same amount we should be and so if this is truly a one-time thing I think we have one time reserves. Um, and if we want to make this a more core purpose of this account, I think uh that could happen uh via direction. Um, so I'd like to move and if I could just apologize and ask Jim to Ziger to repeat the heat the general reserve, but I'd like to move an amendment >> through the chair. If it's the will of committee to uh fund through a levy funded reserve, uh I would uh offer up the tax stabilization reserve. Okay. So, councelor Alex Wilson, you're moving an amendment to councelor Tatison's motion to change it from storm water to tax stabilization. Would you have a seconder for this? Councelor Crutch. Any discussion on the amendment? Who's going first? Councelor Clark. So, I'm I'm struggling to understand the rationale. The storm the flooding came directly from storm water. And so the storm water grant or the stormwater fund would make sense. The the tax stabilization fund, I don't see the rationale as to why you would take money out of the tax stabilization fund um for this type of event. I I honestly don't. Councelor Tatison, >> I'd just like to ask the uh the bench uh starting in January uh will the storm water I guess fund reserve will that be funded by all residents in Hamilton? >> Jim Ziger >> through the chair. No. uh there are exempt uh residents and those are legislatively exempt >> and can we have a better understanding of who is exempt when you say they're exempt residents? >> Uh through the chair it is uh principally farmland and managed forests that under provincial legislation would be exempt. >> Okay. So farm farmland and other specific areas but what about the residents that live on rural roads? Will they be part of the storm water um payments come September? Most residents on rural roads that currently aren't part of that storm water reserve tax base >> through through the chair if they are rural residential. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. So, I'm not supportive of this recognizing the way that the city is moving forward that this I think this is still an appropriate um source for storm water reserve. >> Okay. Any other speakers? Uh councelor Moren Wilson. >> Thank you. Um through the chair. So that last bit of clarification is a consequence of provincial regulation and uh I think this committee uh deferred the decision on the storm water financing scheme to January but has it been deferred further than that or perhaps I'm not remembering correctly. Thank you >> Jim Zerk through the chair. Uh, council has approved a January 1st, 2027 effective date. >> Oh, thank you for correcting me. I appreciate it. >> Any other speakers? So, we have an amendment. It's moved and seconded. We will go to an electronic vote and then go back to the motion. And that uh amendment is defeated. 3 to five. We're back to the um original motion and we're going to go to electronic vote. The vote is up. That carries 8 to zero. Thank you. Uh, any committee members have a notice? I have one. I won't read it out. It's 10.1 improving the city of Hamilton's procurement process. It is staying as a motion and will be discussed at the next AFNA meeting. Um, if there are no other notices, we will move to private and confidential, which is item 11. And may I please have a mover and second to move into close section respecting item 11.2? >> No. Yeah. Councelor Wang, Councelor Moren Wilson, pursuant to section 9.3 subsection EF of the city procedural bylaw 21-021 as amended and the section 2392 subsection ENF of the Ontario Municipal Act 2001 as amended as a subject matter pertains to litigation or potential litigation including matters before administrative tribunals affecting the city or a local board and the receiving of advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege including communication necessary for that purpose. Please indicate your vote by a show of hands now. And that carries. Uh members of the public, the meeting will continue following the close session portion of the meeting. When you see the members of the committee, rejoin the meeting. Committee will wait up to 5 minutes upon reconvening and open session before proceeding with the meeting to provide members of the public and the media time to return. >> Five minute. >> Yeah. Uh before we move into close session, I would ask all members of the public to please exit council chambers and the WebEx meeting now. Any staff that are not directly related to the in camera are asked to please exit the meeting now. As well, a reminder to all members of committee to please ensure you move into close session portion of escribe. Reminder members of committee that as per section 8.7 of the procedural bylaw, the use of personal electronic devices during closed meets is strictly prohibited and the use of city electronic devices during closed minutes meetings are limited to text communication only and not as a telephone, recording device or camera. Staff from the office of the city clerk are exempted from subsection 8.7c when using electronic devices for recordkeeping purposes. Uh for the members online, we're going to be about two minutes. Thank you. Okay, we are back. Um 11.2 to LS21042 settlement of development charge complaint citywide mover and seconder that the following direction provided to staff in close session respecting the report LS21042A be approved in the report be received and remain confidential mover seconder councelor Wang thank you anyone else councelor Moren Wilson thank you uh show of hands And that carries. Thanks everyone. It is 11:35 and we are adjourned. Have a great rest of your day.