Good evening. I'm calling to order this meeting of the uh a special council meeting on May 26 at 6:30 p.m. And uh Mr. Clerk, do we have any regrets? >> Uh yes, Mr. Mayor, we have regrets from councelor Longo. >> Thank you. Are there any declarations of pecuniary interest or any other interest? >> Mr. Clerk, uh we only have declarations of interest in the matters to be to worked on tonight. So anyway, there's no declaration of conflict of interest. And uh so now uh I'd like to call first 5.5 the um former Oakville Trafoger High School redevelopment and we have a um because we have a delegation and u I would like to ask the clerk to call the delegation please. >> Thank you Mayor Douglas Mccuren. >> Welcome Mr. McCen. Council looks forward to your information. I was prepared to stay here for hours. Thank you. So, my name is Douglas Mckeren. I'm um delegating on behalf of the Trfalga Chwell residents association. Um can I have the first slide, please? So uh we we have sought formal feedback from our neighbors. Um the response so far has been pretty sparse but nevertheless uh uh there is significant consistency in attitudes towards the old uh s building. Um and that consistency is that uh um number one the building is a is an eyesore. It's an embarrassment. And number two that um um we all um feel very strongly that um something needs to be done sooner rather than later. um whatever that done is whether it's demolish it, repurpose it or salvage parts of it. Um when is becoming more important to us than what? Um can I have the second slide please? Um so our formal position is that uh we recommend or we we support staff's recommendation of option number four. Um but we note a few things and um the important point here is that we support staff's recommendation. We um the rest of this slide is is a little bit of bitching. Um um we think that probably uh we residents uh um have contributed to this uh year delay. Um so the main message from this is uh if this ever comes up again as an issue this kind of thing let's do better in the future. Um so with respect to option four we don't see a timeline um costs no costs no risk assessment no plan provided um and that makes us a little uneasy. Um, we want action. Um, um, and one of the things that jumps out at us is that there's no clarity on what council will require of OMDC if it cannot find a joint venture partner willing to engage in the market-based seniors development. um you know what's the plan if uh if we can't find a willing partner? Um and uh option two is a very attractive option but obviously it's uh um it's not being recommended at this point uh for both timing and cost reasons. Um but we've never seen any data with respect to option number two. Um we're not we can't remember any uh any public discussion on the subject. So these are grumbles. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you Mr. McCen. Let's just stop. I think you have questions. Councelor Dudk and Councelor Elgar and councelor Hlett do. Councelor Dick, >> thank you um through you your worship. Uh thank you very much for coming out. Um I'm wearing my heritage act here in terms of you're where it's designated and so that restricts what can and cannot be done unless council agrees to demolish. >> I understand that. >> Yeah. your comment about contributing. I wasn't quite clear about what you were referencing when you said we've contributed to something. Is that >> I I think most people most of the time are too busy in their private lives and um and you know we we've been aware of neighbors ourselves bitching about the building >> but we haven't been engaged in it. Mhm. >> There has been a considerable amount um not in the immediate area but advocating for the retention of Oakville Trafogar High School that it's one of the cornerstones for the community. Unfortunately, we don't have the old one that was where the library is. So, it has significance importance along with the architectural merits from Mr. Molsworth. So, um, I I agree with you. It needs to move forward. I don't think we're realistically going to have anyone who's going to revamp the entire thing. But I'm very concerned about the town being um, what shall I say, put in the same regard as some of the people who buy a heritage home and then have demolition by neglect. And I think we've neglected this. So >> yeah, and I that was to some extent where I was coming from >> with my second slide. But I don't think that it is uh it's a collective mistake. I I you know council, residents, staff, there have been other priorities there. It it is what it is. >> Okay. Thank you for coming up. >> Uh thank you councelor. Councelor Elgger. >> Uh, thank you. You member Burden. Hi, Doug. Uh, glad to see you come out tonight. Doug, I take it you read the report and the and the appendix B to it also with the details of that. >> Uh, >> or maybe you didn't. >> I've read the the staff report. Um, >> uh, there's a one of the appendices is a map. Um and then the uh third appendix if I remember is the OMDC report. >> Correct. Yeah. That the opals MDC own report said that that they they didn't support they're against what's happening tonight because they're say making a reversible decision right now is wrong. They want a proper assessment because even though they're saying it was 10 around $10 million, nobody's been into that school since 2016. So it's 10 10 years out of date with the information. And since we are such uh I guess you call it really concerned about the heritage, how do you think the town and council look if we are dumping deciding okay it's no good. go rip it down and then forcing other people to fix their windows and everything on their heritage properties. Like when I read I I was not I was with you until I read appendix B on what Oakville MDC said. Uh it said separate the parcels. Yeah, you can put a senior's building but leave the school and take another go into it again and see what the what really needs to be done because there's a spread here between 10 million a $10 million spread. the report for some reason says 20 and uh they're saying the last report they had was 10 and they want to go in again. I I just I just feel we're running before we have all the information to make a final decision and as as uh councelor Dudik said demolition by neglect. Yes. And you know we go back to the school was it 1909 is the heritage uh building itself. Uh there's not too many that's been around since 1909. And I have to agree, but uh that $10 million spread, it's not small change for a little counselor like myself. Maybe it is for somebody rich like yourself, but uh I think we owe it to the residents of Oakville, throughout Oakville, if we're really pushing to save heritage homes in Oakville, which I think we do a pretty good job uh to and don't let them get into such fit disrepair, which we have done. So, I I'm kind of kind of hoping that somebody will come up with a motion tonight to refer this back at especially based on the on the report appendix B. It it changed my mind on everything. So, anyway, uh could you have you read in details what appendix B said? >> No. No, I have looked at it, but I I can't argue the point with you. The bottom line from our point of view is do something. Don't just defer it and put it to bed. >> Well, I I agree as we have to do something. I hope that's what uh the counselors in ward 3 will do tonight. So, thank you very much. Nice to see you. Take care. >> Thank you, counselor. Counselor Hlett deal. >> Thank you. Thanks for coming out, Doug. Um, you mentioned you tried to talk to some of the neighbors, but I just from a scope perspective, it wasn't a formal survey. We don't have the the we don't have an a a listing of who's pro and who's con. What you're what I heard you say is that the the core theme is do something. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We've we've uh solicited feedback through our newsletter. Various people have uh have um suggested uh uses for it. Um um you know ranging from uh um some kind of community good like uh um um maker space. >> Linda Michael called me. Do you want to give him a call? Michael called me. Councelor Elgary, your microphone is on and you're sharing your family business with the public. >> Oops. >> Sorry about that, Doug. >> I was being yelled at. Um >> anyway, so uh um so at one extreme people were recommending or uh suggesting um new uses for the property um maker space uh meeting rooms um that sort of thing. Um and at the other extreme people were saying dee demolish the goddamn thing now you know they were and they were fierce. Um so uh um but there is a collective view that just leaving it alone and neglecting it is wrong and we we should do something >> correct and I think my email to all the RAS said so tell me what that is other than just do something but I I I I agree with you it's long past time to do something. Um, but you made a comment in your slide about no timeline, no costs, no risk assessment, no plan. Um, and then you sort of tried to qualify it, but would you agree that as counselors, part of our responsibility is to make sure that we have that that information and that plan so we can finally get on with doing it in a way that gets action and results for the community. >> Yeah. Yes, I do. Um Um You know, this is your job. Um and um >> but you like it. Sorry. I'm sorry. >> I'm I'm just telling you what our view is >> that something has to be done, >> right? I appreciate that. I really do. Um and uh and my sense is that um the do something is you know people want to see a concrete plan that that will make a decision uh responsibly about uh how we deal with the old OT what are those elements what what would what can and would we do um and give the public that information because you haven't had all that information for quite some time. >> Yeah. Look, I'm I'm sounding like I'm arguing with you and forgive me. Um the issue for us is how long is that going to take? >> Exactly. >> And and um so um we option number four is a very clear here's a course of action. Um and uh we see some holes in it. Um, but we're willing to support it because it's it's a plan, right? It's a direction. >> And if we could close some of those holes by July or August, would you agree that with that with some of that additional information? >> Oh, sure. I mean the the issue for us is don't you we're talking about 30 plus years >> and we don't want to see more years go by with a thing just decaying >> here. Here. All right. Thanks very much for taking the time. We appreciate it. >> Thank you counselor. Counselor Chisum. >> Uh thank you worship. Um I guess I've got a personal uh uh connection to OTHS. Uh, I started there in 1914 and graduated in 1972. It took me a long time to graduate. Um, with all due respect, aside from the uh the fun part of it, uh, this this has been an eyesore, you're right, for for many years. Um, I've lived on that area for all my life. And, uh, what I'm I'm saying seeing here, I think we need to do a little bit more work before we get uh, crazy with the hammer and chisels. Uh with respect to this property, it is a heritage property. I'm more in tune to deconstruction rather than demolition. Um I think we really need to understand what we can save and what we can't and how we do that uh assessment. Uh we need to bring in uh the appropriate people to help us out with this. You're right. It's time to move on this uh before the whole thing falls down and we don't want the hap that to happen. Um, if you look at the the school itself, all the windows in the front, I can tell you I've been in every classroom top and bottom um in that high school and uh it has got some features inside that would be very very wellreceived if we could um uh recondition those as time goes on, but I think we really need to do assessment. It is one of the oldest buildings in Oakville and I do appreciate the the report and so forth and the options but I think we still need to do some more assessment on this and move it as quickly as possible. Thank you. >> Thank you councelor Councelor Omeira. >> U thank you your worship. I guess my question really for this uh Doug and I apologize but it's really just like what is the role of MDC here? Why are we not at a place where everybody's okay with what we're doing and moving on here? I I I guess I'm trying to figure out what the role of MDC is and and why we're still not where a place where everybody's okay with what what's happening here. I I I'm I'm you know, we've had this development corporation for years and years and years and we've been looking at what it is they're doing and why they're doing it and how they're doing it and where the return the ROI is. And I I'm here we are tonight and Mr. McCen is here, you know, trying to explain just do something and and everybody's going, "Well, we still don't know what the role is." So, I don't know if somebody from MDC is there, but is there is there somebody who can stand up and say, "Yeah, we got this and we're we're not where we want to be or we are where we want to be and and I I I'm just trying to get a little more clarency on on on what the role of MDC is in terms of delivering something that the community is okay with, the town's okay with, and we can move forward." And I don't understand why we're not where where that is. >> Can I leave? By the way, >> I I don't think the counselor's question was for you. Uh uh but the uh CEO of the MDC, uh Mr. Mark Maner is here to answer. The counselor, >> um the project that we're talking about today is a little different from the other ones that have been given to the Oakville MDC. uh council's direction was for us to look for a partner and the town to manage the uh partnership that might materialize. There's no question that there is support for a senior's facility. There's support for maintaining the heritage uh um structure. There's support for the town square in some in some quarters. The problem is the cost of rehabilitating the uh school and that has impacted our ability to find someone who wants to take on the project. Um, it's just that simple. >> So, we're I mean, is it that the council's directive is too limited then? Is that what it is for the MDC to work within? Or I mean, if the MDC can come back with solutions, here's three options of and here's the best. Have we limited your scope too much that you can't find a viable out with this property or what what what's the what's the glitch here? >> Yes. I I mean that's that's probably the uh best summary is that the direction that was given to the Oakville MDC is to look for someone who would construct a four-story senior's facility uh rehabilitate and maintain the heritage characteristics as defined in the building and to construct a civic square. No one has the financial interest in doing that. And that's why we did a report to the board saying, "Council, you may want to reconsider and give us new instructions because the instructions we have right now have not um encouraged any viable offers. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor Councelor McNiss. >> Thank you." uh through your worship. I just want to remind council at the last uh planning development uh meeting we we passed a motion regarding heritage helping housing grant program and encouraging the province uh to support what the acco architectural cons uh conservative conser acco um you know many places you see schools, churches, things like that being transformed into housing or unique spaces. Um, I don't know why we we can't sort of figure out this site, but there's got to be a solution out there. And, you know, I I certainly speaking from the heritage perspective, it would be a shame if all we get out of it is is a commemorative plaque. Um, so I mean, I I don't know what the answer is, but I would certainly be for uh before, you know, trying to figure out uh some sort of option. many many places do find a way to adapt or reuse um their older buildings like schools, churches, things like that. So, I'm I'm sort of not ready to to give up on the site uh totally. Um you know, and uh just sort of timely that we passed a motion uh that sort of relates directly to this. Now, we know there's not funding from the province to help us just yet. Um, but you know, hopefully one day soon there can be some support from the province or the feds. Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor Mcnes. Uh, councelor Giddings through you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, to Mr. Manari, question regarding the past nine years. You know, the initial look was for seniors housing. Was that ever defined? Senior's housing could most of us in this room are seniors. Uh it could be condos, it could be apartments, it could be a number of different things. Are we uh just some quick questions, are we hung up on seniors housing, meaning some form of care? Uh, I haven't seen an there have been a couple of questions in terms of an up-to-date engineering report. Uh, do we know what we're looking at on this in terms of the status of the building? We haven't talked about the chimney swifts in quite a while. Uh, have we? I don't know the regulatory body behind chimney swifts, but are we able to move them if we build a faux chimney on the side of OTCC or the parking garage? Um, the civic square, could that be internal to one of the buildings? uh we have a lot of moving parts on this. So I'm just curious if there's any ability to look at them in a slightly different way so that we achieve all of the goals along with something that gets us uh the ability to find a partner >> on this project. >> There are no restrictions on the type of senior housing that can be developed on the site. um the options are are left open based on proposals that might come forward from developers. Um it could be long-term care, it could be seniors apartments, it could be um you know a village of some kind. Um as far as chimney swifts are concerned, I think that's this sounds silly. That's the easy part. Um there's been many uh uh opportunities across the province where people have had to deal with chimney swifts and have been able to successfully relocate them. So, we can I I know we can deal with that. Um, with the with the building itself, there are no restrictions on what the um Oakville High School could be used for as long as it's complimentary to the senior's facility. Uh, so there, you know, there is there is an option there as well. Um, you know, come back again. It's it's a question of how much will it cost to get that complimentary use. >> Thank you for that. the forest story. Has that posed a concern or has that have people have potential uh folks shied away from it because they were after a greater height? Mhm. Developers have some developers have asked for additional height which would then be um a financial incentive to uh um rehabilitate the the high school um at a fourstory um level. It's much more difficult um for for the financing of a of of a project for the entire site. But there has been I mean I don't want to mislead there has been interest in a four-story uh facility. um in isolation from the high school. >> All right. Uh thank you for that. There was uh in the report it talked about being declared uh excess to to needs. Uh at some point in time when Midtown gets built, we are going to see a huge influx of residents. And I take it that uh that's problematic holding on to it for that much longer as uh as our friend Mr. Mccuran pointed out. Uh just wondering if that could be looked at as well. Uh if we're successful in referring this back. >> Thank you, >> councelor. Um that would depend on what's in the referral back. >> Yes, >> councelor Elder. Uh thank you my verdant to uh uh Mr. Manari again. Glad to see you Mark. Mark you do stand by your appendix B that's in the report. I just because the Oakville MDC itself said that a new structural assessment is imperative before making any decisions and has anything changed like that we don't that we don't know about >> in in that regard like I thought the appendix B really helped me uh decide where I wanted to go tonight. >> Um I mean you'd have to you'd have to speak to town staff about the you know update to uh the structural assessment. I haven't been involved in that. Um and uh I believe there is there one? There is one. Um I I have not seen it, but there is one. Town staff could speak to that. But yes, I mean the uh structural assessment um that we have, I think, uh um would be very similar in many respects to the one that's just been done. It would just be a matter of whether there's been further degradation since the last time a study was completed >> which which apparently was 2016 according to what I know or what we have in the reports we were provided with and like I I I do think Oak Opal NBC played a very big role. They're saying, you know, uh they're saying document staff attached to support their recommendations actually actually argues against making irreversible decisions right now. >> So, um I I want to thank you for uh having your your your group involved in this because I think at the end of the day, we will make the the right decision. Uh and I think as I think what we have to do, what Mr. McCeren says, not let it rag on for another 10 years, though. So >> I and we'll see where the counselors want to go with the motion tonight, but thank you very much, Mark. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank >> I just wanted to address uh um Mayor Burton the question about the building assessment. The building assessment was initially done in 2016 uh when uh the property was we were looking at the property in terms of setting out its requirements going forward. um we updated that um building assessment in 2025 just to make sure that the building was stable and sound and that there was nothing more that we need to do uh in order to protect its structural integrity. Um so that was recently in 25. >> Thank you, Miss Closey. Councelor Dick, >> um I guess I'm a little perturbed that that review took place but it wasn't shared with MDC. It sort of sounds like one's not talking to the other. Uh I would suggest that's not the case. There's a regular conversation between ourselves and and MDC. Um he was aware that the um uh work was being done and he was aware of the conclusion of the work, but no, we haven't actually passed it on yet. it would be available to um if he's going out again to market the property, it would certainly be part of the package um that he would make available to anyone who is interested in uh acquiring or working through the details on the site. >> And is there an opportunity for us to see that? >> Absolutely. Um those documents um we have a whole package of documents that we have that I know that the MDC has provided to anyone who's interested in the property. So there's a a heritage um uh requirements that's in there, the chimney swifts, the engineering report that was done. You know, there's a whole compendium. I think there's about 15 different documents. Um so certainly we could provide that to council. We have pro provided, just so you know, we have provided out to anyone who's interested in the site on a confidential basis because there's a fair amount of detail in that. So we would provide it to council in the same in the same way. >> Thank you, >> councelor Chisum. Um Jay, is it possible on highlights with uh 2025 an update what the highlights are, what the major concerns are with the with the uh the high school? Do we have any idea what the major stumbling blocks are? >> Uh do you mean in terms of the building assessment? >> Yeah. Yeah. This building assessment, the structure itself, >> is it strong? Is it weak? Is it >> the conclusion out of the out of the study? And actually we have a copy of it up that maybe Paul can speak to directly. the overall conclusion of the building is structurally sound. Um, and so it's it from that perspective doesn't look that great on the inside or the out side, but it's the soundness, it's the engineering component of it that assessed, and that was the overall conclusion. >> Thank you. That's good to know. Thank you. >> So, council, um, it seems to me that you're anxious to have more information and I think you should have more information. I would suggest that uh we uh delay this until June 1st's meeting so that staff can distribute the information that the CEO just described. And at that June meeting, you will then be able to decide whether you're satisfied with the amount of information you have and you can delay it again if you're not satisfied. But on the other hand, uh we won't respond to the request from the community to get moving by delaying for several months. We'll we'll just delay long enough to get you the information that you want if you're okay with that. I'm not moving a motion. I'm I'm only suggesting what you might want to do. Councelor has the deal. Your hand is up next. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Burton. Um, would it be help helpful to the staff for us to be more explicit about some of the things we in addition to the heritage attributes or a heritage assessment and in and the building assessment, some of the other things that we you may have that we haven't had a chance to look at. Would that be helpful to you? Yes, I think you should in the spirit of of uh making sure you have the information that you need to make a sound decision, you should specify the information that uh we can reasonably expect would exist. >> Okay. Would you like me to do that now, sir? >> I it would be in order. There are uh you know when you recognize you have the floor and you and you get to move motions. >> Thank you. Um so um so the chimney swift piece would be nice to have a bit more clarity on from a provincial requirements perspective and I think you you may have that um and it would be very helpful for us to understand um from uh the MDC's perspective um what might be different this time uh beyond just explaining perhaps some adjustments on the civic square. Um, is there is there um is there an opportunity for you to share with us what your marketing strategy might be or to use the delegates uh earlier words the plan um that uh would uh be uh according to the staff report and I apologize Mr. Maneria I would have thought that you had that report. So I it it talks about an open p public transparent process and it would be helpful if we had going into uh the next meeting uh clarity on what that looks like from an M MDC perspective. Does that mean that there'll be decision-making milestones? Um could there be greater uh uh sooner updates to council? What kind of timeline would you be looking at if you've got clarity on uh some of the heritage pieces um and on the civic square and potentially on a broader uh housing proposal? you know, would you um would you be able to give us a a a look at a plan um that that enables you to achieve what I'm sure you really have always wanted to achieve, which is find the partner um achieve achieve the best possible options. So, is it possible to ask for that? I I my intent was not to ask for that for June 1st. Um, I would have liked to have given you the grace of a little more time than that. But, um, if you have that and we could have that going into the next meeting, great. If not, I I would suggest that it is important that we we be able to tell the public there is a plan that moves uh that you have the resources that you need to u address um what is clearly a frustration for all. and Mark is going to the podium. So, so maybe I could begin on that. Um, uh, particularly around the civic square and the heritage building. Um, in the staff report that's in front of you, our intent was to, um, sit down with the mark and the MDC to get a bit of with our heritage staff in hand to get a better as well as our parks and open space to get a better understanding. So, what are the objectives that we're looking for? It's a conceptual plan at this point in time. how far on the heritage side could you look at making some changes while still maintaining the heritage designation. So that detail is the detail that we expected to take away after this meeting to do. Um so the June 1st deadline is difficult to meet because those discussions still need to happen. And I I did want to clarify where the MDC may not have the building assessment. They absolutely have the report that's in front of you today and they were consulted on that report to make sure that the options that we were setting out reflected some of the things that they thought could be potential in the marketplace. So I I did want to clarify that >> that would also there is another report that indicates that you could separate the projects and that you wouldn't want us Mr. Maner to use your words make an irreversible decision. So I I that is uh also true. Um, so to Mayor Burton's comments, some I I listed off a few things that we would like and I'm just wondering about the marketing plan. Again, it um it will depend on what role you want the MDC to play. Um, as I've said, historically, we've played the role as of your broker. We have not gone out to um necessarily negotiate um or enter into any kind of joint venture arrangement. we were to find partners and we would bring them back when we found them, we would bring them back to town staff uh for consideration. Um, and I could certainly give you a description of how that works. Um, if you're interested in the Oakville MDC actually undertaking a project um through a joint venture or a limited partnership, that's a whole different process which in calls an an RFP and an evaluation criteria and a timeline and a and a and a you know a much larger um um basket of information that that we would provide to you. So I mean or I could give you both. You could make a decision. So funny that you should say that um because we perhaps both is what we should see because that clarity just now was actually quite helpful to me um that there are there are two paths here. I had understood that you were actually beyond brokering and so thank you for clarifying that for for us. Um, so, um, Mayor Burton, I I I can forward some written written concepts. Um, but I think I've covered most of it looking for and I I don't want to be unfair to uh MDC in terms of what we would like by June 1st. Um, Mark looks at goes like like that's not really gonna work days. >> Yeah, I I'm with you. Um, and so we had thought that uh they could come back in July uh with all of that information and that uh you know at at the latest August. Um that would then allow us as counselors. We have this information. we can then say here are the next steps as you have just said are we giving it to you to go full boore and and you will have then told us how how how you're going to do that and how quickly you can do that as part of our decision- making. So I'll forward this and um uh to to members of council and and the clerk if if you um uh uh uh for consideration. The the one piece that I have in here that is not related specifically to MDC is uh what councelor Giddings also referenced which is um the staff taking a a bit of time not a long time to just ensure that there is absolutely no need for uh Oakville uh the old OT from a building perspective for community need um given the recognized projected growth in Midtown and the potential delays that could occur for those community services. So, I do have that in there. I am forwarding it now, Mayor Burton, and and um uh for for council's consideration. >> Well, can I councelor Giddings? >> Councelor Giddings, can I assume that you'll second this? All right. So, the the matters on the floor. Um, councelor, I just wanted to ask if you u heard and and uh uh processed that uh Mr. Maneri told us that when he was seeking a partner for us, he was seeking a partner on the terms that council had set that that and that I took from that to mean that we had asked more than the market would give us. And I just hope that that registered because that's Mark's most valuable input here. >> Well, I think he's given us valuable input and yes, I I I fully understand he's he has been uh sticking strictly to the scope in which he has conveyed to us and my challenge is I don't believe that. Well, it would have been nice to have that scope revisited earlier, but I fully appreciate he wants clarity. The public wants clarity. I think respectfully counselors want clarity um so we can do something that's responsible for uh for those uh important lens. >> We may all be on the same page counselor um under our procedure if we refer it to the first and the material is not ready in time it can slip to the 15th. We don't need to throw long. Uh uh we we need to throw just far enough to get what we want. >> Okay. Uh given that councelor Mcnes, do you want to speak to the motion? >> Yes. Uh through your worship, um sort of just along the same lines of what was uh just discussed there, I think I'd like to understand a bit more. I understand we're working with the terms. Um let's say those terms change. if we could understand what that would mean and maybe we don't have the answer by June 1st. Um, the reason I bring that up, I think there's a good point that the surrounding area is envisioned to change probably a lot more significantly than anticipated five or 6 years ago. And when I think of comparable heritage buildings and just thinking of Toronto, there's buildings like Winchwood Barnes that provides a need for that area. And I believe it's artist housing and um a market space for that local community or there's center for social innovation that uses heritage buildings and I think they even have a bond system that that sort of pays for it and it provides office or co-working space uh and other things or artscape things like that. Um, so maybe there's just a different way of thinking about it if we're, you know, before we sort of throw in the towel to such a significant uh, building. But, um, certainly I think that would take the MDC down a much different road. Um, you know, another option sometimes is design competitions and things like that. But if if we could just understand if we're broadening the scope, what does that mean going forward? Obviously, more resources, more time, things like that. But maybe if we could just hear back um not expecting an answer today, but uh either on the 1st or the 15th. >> Councelor, excuse me. We're not we're not voting on any of that. We're voting on uh receiving additional information and taking the matter up again on the 1st or the 15th or whenever. >> Yes. So, I was just trying to add to the list of the additional information that I was uh hoping to get. So if we were to change the terms of what the MDC's been charged with, if we could understand um the impact of that. >> So council set the terms at the first time and correct >> and council is the one who would set terms again. So, I'm sure that uh uh with the benefit of your advice, council will receive from staff on the 1st or the 15th or whenever a recommended set of terms to offer the MDC. >> Okay, >> good, >> Councelor. Uh thank you, Mayor Burton. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just concerned about this date. We're sitting on May the 26th and to throw out June the 1st, I I really think we have to be reasonable of staff's time unless they want to work uh more than 24 hours a day including weekends. But I think that we're pushing a little too hard here and I think we we need the uh Mr. Maner's expertise and uh we have to the feasibility of separating the disposition to get that senior's building built. you know, like may we separate just separate it and cuz that looks like the profitable portion of the whole thing from what I read in the report. So I I I just want to make sure to satisfy Mr. McCirkin that we get this done in this term of council. I just say by August, if we can get everything back by August, we can make a final decision and make everybody happy and everybody content instead of thinking we're trying to ram something through good or bad. So, I I like where we're going, but I do think even tasking staff for something on June the 1 is a little bit unrealistic for them. >> I thank you. Those are my comments. >> Thank you, counselor. I I would suggest to you that if they can't make the first, they might make the 15th. Uh uh the and and uh if not that the next date, but um I don't see any benefit of waiting till August and we become lame duck on August 21st. So, your your uh your August date strikes me as uh kind of it's got a limited uh appeal to me. Anyway, uh it's up to council. Uh we have a motion and uh I think everybody has it. It's quite long. Um >> I'll get to her in a second. Um the uh so if if uh councelor would you like to give a precy of it just rhyme off the seven points. >> Sure. Uh that staff report back uh with a heritage assessment for the former Oakville Trafoger High School including the cultural heritage value and the significance of that building the identification or potential reuse identification or pres preservation of heritage elements. uh a copy of a building assessment or structural engineering assessment on the stability and condition of of the former OT. So, uh, a further understanding of the provincial requirements on the chimney swift habitat, a further explanation of sort of the differences between a townstead town town staffled project approach versus the Oakville MDC model, uh, which allows then MDC to also talk to us about the value added approach that they bring from a, uh, addressing community needs and financial objectives. um that MDC provide uh those details which I referenced earlier proposed revised marketing strategy reflecting an open public transparent with with critical timelines uh decision-m a consideration of public feedback and and confirmation you have the resources to market um and uh get those potential proposals and return with a status update in January of 2027. I also ref referenced that staff look at the potential opportunities for the former OT building relative to either complimentary use of the OTCC or other community needs um and report back on the same um and that staff report back to council with this information. We did say no later than August. I take your point, Mayor Burton. You know, you want something sooner. Um I was just trying to be respectful of uh whether you know how quickly but I mean would I love to see it in in July? Um if it's comprehensive the goal is to enable council to provide clear comprehensive direction regarding the next steps um for resolving this which would be making a decision about MDC. It doesn't say that exactly but you know how are we going to market it? how are we going to receive those development options so that by January of 2027 the do something has really moved us forward. >> Thank you councelor. Um the CAO uh I'll I'll recognize you in a moment. Um it's um I I'm okay if you want to say by August. Uh I think uh I think it would be better to say uh >> as soon as possible. as soon as possible. I mean, the way I would say as soon as possible is June 1st and if not that the next one and if not that the next one. But but uh that's a matter for council to decide. Um the uh and that's all I wanted to say about the about the timing, but you know, I'll support it either way, but my recommendation is uh that uh you get it faster if you ask for it faster. Um, and I'll the chair recognizes the CEO. >> Thank you, Mayor Burton. Uh, we will, of course, put the package together as quickly as possible. It's the information that you require. We are um conscious of the August deadline, so we will try for as soon as possible. Uh, but we'll bring one comprehensive package. I know we could do some of it by June 1st, but that's not a complete package. So, we will do a complete package. The only one I I raise to get some clarity on specifically is on the community use. Um so what we have done is we've looked at all of the master plans that we've prepared and we've just updated all those master plans within the last year or two in terms of what are the town requirements that we need. Um and so we can look at that and get back to you on that. if you're asking for us to look broader in terms of broader community uses out there um that I I I believe takes a longer longer time to be able to do because one we have to understand what are the comm community what um community groups are out there that would be looking at some additional space that's time to go out and search for them I think the other major question to ask a community group is they are they in a financial position to be able to um uh withstand this fairly significant task of the the the high school building. So that component would take a much longer time for us to do. I would suggest that would be well into the future. So if you're asking us to look at what our town needs, we can absolutely do that as soon as possible. >> Councelor, do you want to adjust that part of your motion? Um so I I I respect that you couldn't do a comprehensive um assessment of community partners' needs and as you appropriately say their financial uh health to contribute. Um, it would though be helpful that a fresh set of eyes at least turn their mind to is there a risk that we would be giving up a uh a potential, you know, we only have a limited amount of public land um in the vicinity of Midtown that uh could be uh could be part of uh supporting the Midtown growth. and and you may come back with a report that says uh we don't have enough information or this is the best we can give give you in terms of insights but I would I would appreciate somebody turning their mind to that so we can at least rest assured if if the decision is you know it's all uh housing development of some shape or form um we've considered it >> uh thank you counselor we can we will turn our minds to that to see if we're losing losing an opportunity for town needs. Thank you. >> So, councelor, do you need to adjust your language in the your written language to reflect what you said? >> I think I think I think the CEO is fine >> and and you're fine with her. >> Yes, I'm I'm I'm fine with that direction. >> Okay, then. Councelor Adams, thank you for your patience. >> No problem at all. Thanks very much. Um, I just wanted to help clarify what the um the meaning of each of the items was or the expectations of what we would get back. So, I'm looking at items one, two, and three here. Are these are staff expecting to be providing us existing reports for these three items effectively? Like there's not new technical reports that are going to be provided or we're not going out to get consultants to >> write something new. >> That's correct. It'll be the existing documents we already have. And I I think we've got most of those things covered off in the existing documents, but there's no new research. >> So there's no new research happening. This is providing us information that's out there already or within staff's hands. Okay, great. Thank you. And then four and five, I read those as uh providing better explanation of the of the processes that we've used for other sites already. Is that also your expectation? >> Yes, it is, counselor. >> Great. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, counselor. Counselor null. >> Thank you, worship. Um, with respect, I I support this referral back and with the additional information required because certainly we we do need to have all the details in front of us. Um, I spent 26 years hearing about this school since I joined council a long time ago and I've lost track of the number of times we've this has been before us. One question that I have though is with respect to that 26-year period that I've been here and as long as the building has been um sitting vacant, have we done any actual assessment of uh have we had a third party dispassionate assessment of the potential use of this building for for other use? Because I know that you know there's there's a real pressure in the town in terms of trying to preserve the historical aspects of this property and maybe that sometimes jades our point of view in terms of of where we go with this. Has there ever been a third party assessment done by somebody who has expertise in adaptive reuse um or for that matter the marketing of these sorts of facilities or uh buildings to give us some advice on that rather than just constantly rehashing the same information? Is that information available? Have we done that at any point? I can't recall. I know we had a study for an art gallery at one point and there was a number of things along the way, but I don't know if we've actually ever retained expertise to give us some advice on this. uh not as a third party. You're right on the galleries piece. There was quite a bit of work done actually by the galleries. They looked into it in terms of whether or not they uh and they had brought in an architect at that point in time. In fact, I think one of the board members was an architect who looked at it to see what could be what could happen in the use. They were actually quite excited about it, but again, it was the cost. That was at the time we were applying for some federal um uh funding at that point in time. Um, so that's the only assessment that I'm aware of in the last 20 years on uh on that site. Um, so I'm not aware of any other third-party assessment. >> I tell you the only reason to raise this I'm not trying to derail anything counselor has lethal, but that I I I fear that this was going to come back to us and we're going to have all this data that we have to analyze again and none of us are really experts on on this piece and we're even hearing the MDC saying what do we do next kind of thing. We we're not even sure what we're supposed to do next. So, I'm just wondering if that is something we should maybe consider retaining that kind of resource to to to provide some feedback along with the physical uh assessments of the property as well to give us some insights as to what the market could bear. Like we've got this we've got this view of what we think we want there. We have a master plan this or zoning that actually says is what we want on that site. Maybe we're wrong and maybe we need to re if if our if our biggest goal here is to save this site as a, you know, and I know the housing demands and everything, but if our biggest goal here is to save this site, maybe there's another approach that we're missing because we're sort of so headstrong on wanting to preserve this important p piece of Oakville's history. I I mean, I just I'm not sure because that could delay this even more, I guess, but I I'm afraid we're going to see this and we're going to be back in the same position saying, "Great, we have a lot of facts and figures. We know the building's stable, but do we really have any do we have any greater knowledge in which to make this decision which option is most viable? Like I don't know if we're if we're giving Mr. Maner enough to work with to be honest with you. >> Councelor, let's let the CEO answer your question. >> I just like hearing the sound of my own voice. >> Yeah, we know >> we Well, we we we did hear the question >> through you, Mayor Burton. Um, that is in part why we had thought we should set down some fairly flexible requirements for the MDC because I I think that gets you a a full array of third party to come in to look at the site to see what is what is actually doable in the marketplace. Um so uh the the purpose of the recommendation of option four is to set those basic parameters, give them all the material that we have and we get the benefit of the entire marketplace coming in to look at the site to see what is actually possible within the constraints the council gives it. um because the the options on the heritage piece I think are quite broad in terms of protecting the designation and yet perhaps shifting or removing portions of the building. So it retains the heritage designation but not perhaps every single attribute that is on the site and so it gives us a wider range of third party. >> I appreciate that. I'm going to stop kicking this can right now except to say that I just don't want to be in the position that we are living the Einstein theory of insanity doing the same thing expecting change. >> Totally. >> Um so I just I'm just wondering if there's a new input that we should be looking at somewhere along the lines rather than just relying on the market to do it. I I I have I'm a capitalist. I have full faith in the market, but I'm just you know other than that having somebody with some expertise and I'll leave it there if somebody wants to pick up on it. It's not my ward. Um I'm just like Mr. McGrer was saying, "I'm kind of tired of hearing about this to be honest with you. I just like to get moving on with something that's constructive." >> Thank you, counselor. Councelor Dunick, >> thank you. Um, through your your worship, I think the adaptive reuse of the site is what we're really looking at at that stage. And I guess what might be beneficial is hearing whether it has to be in camera, being respectful of the discussions that have taken place with the MDC. Have they been approached by other people or have there been discussions that have taken place where not looking at a senior facility they said we'd love to do this but and so maybe some of those discussions have already taken place but I do agree with you the adaptive reuse not hamstringing is is very important so whether or not we do that um to if it's possible to come back with that otherwise I don't want to hold it up because again time is of the essence the the only decision that's on the table is whether we delay this uh for the information uh councelor Chisum >> yes thank you your worship um the high school itself and we've spent a lot of money with the coach house down at the museum for we've repurposed that it was a it was a coach house and we have horses it was horses were in there and now we're using it for small rooms and so forth. You got to remember this is an old school. It's partitioned inside their classrooms. So you've really you've really limited your repurposing, but I think there there there could be a marriage to something down the line uh with organizations and I'm just going to use my past history and my work experience is that over the years we have a lot of community organizations unfortunately just don't have the financial where to to get into a partnership or a relationship and sustainable cost becomes very extremely difficult for them. So, I would be very careful. Um, maybe look at the um outside private uh operations and so forth who have that ability to to work with the town, but our community uh groups, it's very difficult uh for that. And knowing that the the purpose of that building is a class, there are classrooms. It's going to make it very difficult to repurpose it in in a way that uh we'd like to see it. But I I agree and maybe it's just, you know, my own top of mind is a spin-off from the recreation center in some shape or form um as part of the recreation uh complex. That's my two cents. Thanks. >> Thank you, counselor. Uh councelor, I was going to put the vote, but uh is this on whether or not to delay? >> No. No, >> it's it's not in order then. No, my comment is uh what my council colleague suggested of adapted reuse, we hoped comes out of having an appreciation of the heritage assessment. Um and I take your point very much. Our intent is not quote unquote the delay. our inqu our intent is a wholesome package which what the CEO is has committed to um and and then making a decision and if the marketplace if that's where we end up can get us uh a multitude of different options that would be where we want to get to. So thank you. >> All right councelor null is this for or against the motion? >> It's for the motion. >> All right. So, I just want to be clear. I'm not suggesting delay. I'm suggesting maybe there was an additional piece of input we could get to help us at the end of this exercise so we can make that decision. I don't want to delay this anymore. I don't want a second generation to have to deal with this. So, um that's I'm support the motion, but if there's some way we can get that additional information along the way, I think that'd be very useful in helping what the ultimate decision uh outcome is. >> Thank you, counselor. Um, is there any objection to Oh, so the the the motion is as distributed by a by August as as you read there. Is there any objection? Mr. Clerk, there being no objection, that carries. Council, we did something. You've put me in mind of the best story Harry Barrett ever told me about um Oakville building things. He was very proud of the centennial project known as the Oakville Performing Arts Center and and he told me how he proudly opened it in 1977. And I innocently asked him, "Oh, was the centennial year in 77?" And he said, "No, it was in ' 67, but this is Oakville, and we like to talk a thing real good before we make a decision." So Harry forewarned all of us about it, I guess. Um, we can now, uh, I think turn our attention to >> consent. >> Consent. If I can unjumble my papers. >> Page 30. >> I'm getting there. I feel like we we spent an hour on that. We need a break. Page three, customer experience strategy. These are the consent items. Uh can I have a motion for the consent items? Uh councelor Elgar, is that a motion for the consent items? >> No, that's for separation of a couple. >> Well, let me get a motion. I'll get a motion and then we'll have separations. Councelor Adams is moving the motion. Councelor She is moving. This is the seconder uh separations. Councelor Elgger. >> Thank you through Mayor Burton. I would like to separate. Well, it was going to be 9.3, but I guess it changed to 3.3 and I think it says is the other one 3.5, please. >> All right. I'm separating 3.3 and 3.5. Any others? Councelor Adams, >> I also wanted to separate 3.5. Thanks. >> It's separated. Sorry. Um, councelor Elgar, was there something else? Councelor Adams, was there anything else? Councelor has a deal. >> Um, I wanted to separate 3.1 and 3.3. Oh, sorry. And 3.4. I have questions on all. Well, the orphan is 3.2. >> Is there any objection to 3.2? Mr. Clerk, there being no objection to 3.2. One consent item has been consented to. Um, let's take them in numerical order, uh, if you don't mind. number is 3.1 customer experience strategy council >> 3.1 >> council has a deal >> no I I have a question with respect to 3.1 >> um sorry folks I've got too many binders on my desk here um thank you for the report uh with customer service and I I just want to say with all this new innovative um programming that you want to do with this the customer service experience and knowing we just had a customer or excuse me our satisfaction survey being so high I'm trying to understand what the correlation or the the connection to why we need to do all this knowing full well our um satisfaction survey is very high. >> Thank you for the question and through the mayor. Um it was very high. You're absolutely right. Uh and it's something to be proud proud of, but it's also something to protect because we know we're in a world where our expectations are exceeding uh rising exceedingly quickly and standing still in that instance would actually be moving backwards. So while nine out of 10 residents are telling us we're doing a great job, we do need to look at that 10% on on uh where we maybe could do things a little bit better. Um it means that there are actually moments and and in some cases there's hundreds of them where we can be cleaner, faster, more connected and more human. And that's really the intent of this work to help us build a little bit of st a little bit of trust and strengthen uh what's already strong. >> Okay. I the other question too is looking at the financial and I'm Scottish and I watch what I do with the money. uh we're talking $350,000 uh for this to go into play. Can we not look at this figure in a more realistic or it seems to be a very high dollar amount for what we want to do here. Can we not internalize some of these costs? >> Uh yes, absolutely through the through the chair. I um am half Scottish too. So uh I appreciate that question. And this was really just a ballpark forecast for us. So that when I had meetings with counselors prior to developing the full strategy, they had asked me to just ballp park what the cost might look like. Uh we still need to go through the budget process for all of that the dollars that are indicated in this report and go and get approval as we do that. So if there other priorities are competing, we will scale back and look at different options for us moving forward. For example, the training, we might looked at LinkedIn learning instead of having a facilitated session, things like that. >> Yeah. It's just the concern is that if we're moving forward on on the this this report, it's looking I think there was two two or three staff people that we we have to hire for this uh program. >> Uh no, no, there isn't two or three staff people to be hired. There's uh a position a uh service building services liaison position that we're piloting that was asked for through the budget for this year and it's actually going to be implemented and we'll test it and see uh through this year how it works and if there is a future ask we would base it on how that pilot um works for us. >> Okay. Uh the motion is to receive not to approve any expenditures. >> Okay. Thank you. I still have questions. Is that right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. Would would you move receipt of the report? >> I move. >> Can I get a seconder? Uh, councelor null. Thank you. Is there any objection? Councelor, are you objecting or just waiting to be called? >> I have a question. I have a question on the item if that's okay. >> You are you are on the floor and thank you. >> Hold on your worship. I still have I'm still not finished with my questions. >> Oh. Um, >> well then please carry on with your questions and then we'll go to councelor Romero's questions. Let's let's uh let me clarify it's not not a qu that is a question on your number two improve service request issue tracking and closure confirmation what and I'm not knowing the status of their request and I think this is very important because it's happening now in real time a lot of the uh concerns complaints that go into service Oakville uh go into and it's this quote from from the residents they go into a dark hole and then the response there's no response or the file is closed and they don't have uh specific information with the follow-up. And I can I appreciate FOIs and everything else. But we've got to come to some uh understanding if you're doing that so the public understands what we can do and what we can't do with respect to information being provided on the complaint or the concern that has been raised by the resident. Um could so could you could you qualify for me that when we get into this program that that will have a little bit more detail on the response rate uh with narrative rather than file closed? >> Uh yes through the chair that part of this uh the strategy is actually looking at a request to resolution review and part of that is uh finding ways for us to improve on how we report out on case closures. So, we're creating tip sheets for staff in program areas so they actually know what kind of comments to put in. Uh, so that they don't close a case without a comment, that sort of thing. Um, and we're looking at ways to keep council more informed on a monthly basis of what's going on in their ward. So, not just complaints, but getting the full picture, how many requests came in, what's the the sort of feeling of those that sort of uh information. So, it's all built into what we're going to do. Um, and some of it's already begun and looking at ways to improve how we actually communicate that information out to residents. I I know the frustration when you get an email saying the case has been closed and you know nothing else is going on. >> Thank you. I look forward to the uh program. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor. Councelor Romera, thank you for your patience. >> Uh no problem. And I just uh to go on the on the pun there. Uh Irish people are just uh Scottish people are just Irish people who couldn't swim. So we're all we're all in the same pool here. So, uh, but but what I really want to ask is is, you know, it just seems we can't keep up with the pace that CRM are moving at. And by the time we get our heads around to what we need to do and what we want to do, it's already jumped the shark and we're behind. So, do we have the processes in place to move at the pace with which technology is moving so that we can keep up with what the demands of our environment are in terms of this program? because I don't think from the outside looking in and being on the inside looking in uh that we can move as quickly as we need to and by the time we do an RFP and by the time we do uh uh you know a soundboard and we we do public consult this it's already jumped on us. So how are we keeping keeping up with the pace of where we are technologically and in a society with what our processes are in place as a municipality. Uh thank you for the question and through the chair. Uh we are exploring options uh modules and lowerc cost items where we can use AI uh to help us uh get a little better at some of those processes as well as our focus on continuous improvement and making sure that you know we're doing endto-end process reviews whenever we can. Um the technology piece is for sure we have to stay on top of it. It's part of why we need this strategy. We did hear from residents that they want more digital services and options provided to them. So we do have to keep ahead of it. There is a cost implication of course with how quickly we can we can do those things. Um and we have to take into account any you know uh the security issues around it to make sure that we're not risking any of our residents personal information. But all of those are on our radar and and for discussion and you know you will likely see some budget business cases this year to support that ask uh coming to fruition for some technology modules. So, I'm hearing we can keep up with the pace with which CRM are moving. >> Well, we're doing our best to try to do that. Yes. Um, you know, it's it's not a secret that it moves faster than than a speeding bullet. Um, and we're government, so we don't tend to move as quickly as say some of the private sector organizations, but we are exploring how we can do that, you know, with within our constraints of of of the budget that we have in front of us. Um, we're we're doing our best. We're exploring right now our staffing models to make sure that we've got the right model of uh the right, you know, number of individuals, full-time versus part-time, our afterhour service. All of those things are are being looked at currently to keep us as current as we can. We do a pretty good job of meeting our service levels generally speaking. Um there are, you know, blips tax time, we get more calls the summer, we get more calls when there's a snowstorm. We get more calls, but generally speaking, we are able to meet our service levels. um which our council approved. >> Okay. Well, generally speaking, thank you very much. I appreciate it. >> Thank you, counselor. Um so, is there any objection? The motion is by councelor Chisum and councelor Null. Mr. Clerk, there being no objection, that consent item is consented to. Uh, I now I now come to I think we're on to 3.3. Parkland cash in l parkland bonus zoning development charges community benefits fund statements. Councelor Elgger, this is your baseball diamond. Thank you, Mayor Burton. I I just want to say I have no concern with the quality of the staff report. It is thorough and professionally prepared. My concern is with what is in it and whether Oakville residents know about it. Most Oakville residents assume that when a new subdivision is built, the developer pays for new roads, parks, fire stations, and community centers that come with it. And that's exactly what the development charges were designed to do, to ensure that growth pays for growth, not the existing taxpayers. However, over the past several years, through Bill 23, Bill 109, and most recently, Bill 17, the province has systematically weakened that principle. They have introduced a new exemptions, frozen the rates developers pay, allowed payments to be deferred without interest, reduced parkland contributions. Each change taken alone may have seemed reasonable, but this report shows us the cumulative effect, and it is significant. The report documents over $74 million in revenue that Oakville has either lost, had deferred, or had to cover from existing taxpayer reserves. That includes $22 million lost in DC rate freeze, $8.97 million in exemptions funded by our capital reserves in 2025 alone, 20.7 million in parkland revenue lost in bill 23. And now a new deferral mechanism under bill 17 where developers don't pay until occupancy without any interest charge or comp or compensation compensate the town. I also want to flag that the fire protection DC reserve is currently an at a negative $4.8 million. That means we are already uh dipping into the reserves to other areas to fund fire services and growth costs. The infrastructure still needs to be built. Someone has to pay for it. Right now that is increasingly over Oakville taxpayers. and site items are for routine administrative matters. This report reveals a structural shift in how the town is funded. Residents have to have to the right to know about it. Council has an obligation to discuss this publicly and to formally tell the province that we are not satisfied and we are being left to absorb these costs. That is why I want to move this item off consent. And I guess I've done my rant, but uh I don't like where this is going, especially for the existing taxpayers, but I want to thank staff for the report and the numbers they provided. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Councelor Elder. Um would you like to move the receipt of the matter? >> Um I Mayor Burton, I I will move receipt, but I wonder we've got to get the taxpayers. They have no idea like how do we get this to them? like that short little basic information I just prepared. If that went out to people, they would probably wake up. I don't think people have any idea what's going on. >> Well, counselor, actually the motion, >> I correct myself. The the motion is to um make this available on the town website to help the public to know it and to also um provide it to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. I'm >> Well, I appreciate that because they the staff did an excellent job in the report. It is so well written. I can't believe it. Thank you. >> So, thank you for that. >> Let me get a second. >> I need a seconder. Councelor Duk, thank you. Uh, councelor has deal. You have the floor. >> Thank you, Mayor Burton. Um, I concur. It's a great report and I want to thank Jonathan for clarifying that the really the purpose of the report is to demonstrate that we are we have committed the reserve funding uh and all of those dollars and we we intend to spend the money um and so we're not sitting on a bunch of cash uh which some people might uh read the report and go we have a lot of money that to spend which we don't and so that takes me two questions um on parkland uh right now the balance uh reported was 101 million and in the report on page nine it goes on to say that 146 million is allocated already to capital projects right straight through to 2035. So my question is um how as council uh can we get some assurance that there will be reserve dollars for purchasing parkland uh that may be necessary in uh some of these SGAAS uh through you mayor Burton. So just to clarify the question a little bit. So we currently have just over hund00 million in our parkland reserve and the commitments that you were referring to are what we expect to spend over the 10-year forecast. So during that time we still expect to collect parkland uh funds uh through those 10 years. And that allows us then to have the funds to use them for parkland whenever opportunities come up. I know that our parks team has certain sites in mind and those are always brought before council for approval. And we also do that through the budget process each year where we consider uh parkland acquisition as one of our our capital projects. So, if tomorrow we magically have a piece of land in uh an area that might cost us $40 million, we would look at the capital forecast and be able to have an assurance that if it was council's will that the money is there from a parkland reserve to be uh approved >> through you, Mayor Burton. So certainly if a parcel came up tomorrow for $40 million, we would then have the opportunity to look at that and say, "We have $100 million in our reserve. These are the pressures that we have on where we want to buy parkland. Does that fit with our parks plan? Does that fit with where we want the land to be? What are the impacts of that decision?" Just like we do for all of our other budget decisions and then we bring that before council. >> So thank you for clarifying that because some of the public had questions on that. And then my other question is just around uh on page nine uh received the reserve balance of 295.2 million with uh 1 almost 1 billion allocated across the capital forecast. Um, and I know that we go through this at budget time, but is there um is there a report that gives us the DC contributions, the provincial and regional contributions that that support uh that 1.1 billion. >> Uh so through you, Mayor Burton. So, in our budget documents, we do outline what our uh expected 10-year capital forecast is, which includes the items that we would spend on growth, and it also highlights the funding sources for those items, including development charges or any other sources that there might be. >> Um, and so specifically, there is on page six, you talk about a specific highway will incur 95% of the co we're going to incur 95% of the capital costs. um which um I'd like to know what highway that is and why we would incur 95% of those costs. >> So I'll get Matt day to come up to answer the detailed question. Um he can probably he has the details better than I do. >> Uh through you mayor Burton. Um so that isn't a specific highway. Our roads development charges are called services related to a highway. So that's just the terminology from the DC act. So that spending of 95% uh the point being made there is in our DC background study we said we were going to spend X. Right now we're forecasting that we'll spend 95% of that because a couple projects have been shifted out due to coordination with other levels of government. >> So it's not on a specific highway it's actually on road >> all of our roads program combined. Yeah. >> I think we might want to write it that way but okay. Thanks very much. >> Thank you counselor. Um, so I uh we have a we have a motion and it's seconded. Any we've got hands though. Councelor Hazat deal. Are you done? Councelor Chisum. >> Thank you worship. Just a quick question on page 43 on the uh bonus the bonus zoning funds available. I see Kur Village has 3,316,000. Will those monies be portioned out for the streetscape? Is that where that money would be dedicated to? uh through you, Mayor Burton. Uh that is an option. So in the official plan under uh Kur Street, there are eligible bonusing items and the money we have collected, we do have agreements for that. Most of them refer to those eligible bonus bonusing items in Kur Village. Streetscape being one of them. So part of our work in in advance of the 2027 budget is to look at the new streetscapes plan for Kur Street uh and what bonusing funds we may be able to use. >> I look forward to it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Chisum. Um the uh item 3 Wait a minute. 3.3 has been moved and seconded. Is there any objection? Mr. Clerk, there's no objection. That is adopted. 3.4 Four, town response to buy Ontario act. I can't remember who separated that. >> Councelor Hlett deal. >> Thank you through you, Mayor Burton. Um, my question on this comes with an example. Um uh as I read it, I thought about the fact that uh some of us take a great deal of make an effort to go to the Association of Municipalities and uh the Federal Association of Municipalities and we get vendors who share with us um all their, you know, their latest and greatest. And um and we often take their cards if it's something of interest. And when we take their card, you know, there's usually a follow-up discussion about how how how does that work? And and the reason we do that follow-up is usually because we're trying to, you know, I think actually councelor Amir said it, we're trying to stay a breast of what's the latest and the greatest that's out there. If we engage in a follow-up discussion following that and we're the ones who who create that discussion, are we in fact going to uh put that vendor at risk to bid on uh a project that they might be suitable for >> through you uh Mr. Mayor. Uh thank you for the question. Um yes, the the updates do have some changes related to that. Uh but I think our director of finance and deputy treasur is probably best positioned for that. >> Through you, Mayor Burton. Uh so I believe council referring to section 13 on the no lobbying requirements that were added to address some of the concerns that were raised earlier this year. And to answer your question about uh conversations with vendors, certainly having conversations with vendors is an important part of of um the work that you do. It's also the work that staff does. The purpose of the section is more about um the consideration of when those conversations lead to things like unsolicited um proof of concepts, pilot projects or trials or things like that that may uh actually put the town in a more difficult position. It can increase our risk profile. Uh it can also preclude vendors from bidding. Uh it can put them in a spot where there is not fair, open, and public procurement happening. And so that is what we're trying to um address to make sure it's done in a proper manner. It's not to say you can never talk to a vendor. >> So as a further example, and it's interesting that this says no lobbying. So when when there some of us were interested in a public registry, um we uh we weren't satisfied with the answer and we actually spoke to other counselors in other municipalities. They sent us to a vendor that they used and walked us through uh their process. And so the vendor was approached by us. And that vendor happens to have a plan that is uh $160,000 less than what we were quoted, by the way. But but the concern was uh when we made those had those conversations, would would they be restricted if public registry ever comes back? And so what I'm hearing you say is those conversations don't count unless the bidding is in the public realm or we're actually in a transactional process >> through you mayor Burton. So there's a couple different uh considerations there. So one is um in this se your to your last point in this section we're also really focused on where there is an active procurement ongoing. So when we're trying to award work, if a member of staff or council reached out to a vendor to to go outside that process, we are now circumventing open fair public procurement. Um and so that wouldn't be an appropriate way for us to conduct business. Um when it comes to reaching out to a vendor to get an understanding of their business, um that's certainly uh an option. Uh but in your example, if you came back to staff and said, "I wanted to have components X, Y, and Zed that are restricted exactly to one vendor." Now you've forced us into one vendor um which would um not allow other vendors to then compete in that process. >> Okay. Thank you very much for that clarification. >> Councelor Romera. >> Yeah, just just maybe to follow from that. I'm just um I'm curious as to so this is provincial legislation saying that we have to have the Ontario first procurement. So if if we are if if there's a Quebec based solution or an an Alberta based solution that gets knocked down the the scale when we go and look for it for for these sorts of things. I'm just trying to understand what the legislation is saying now we must do. That's not Canadianwide, that's now Ontario. >> So through you, Mayor Burton, I'm going to pass it over to Lean Dosta. She's our manager of purchasing and risk management and she can probably better answer that question for you >> through you mayor Burton. Um the by Ontario act uh speaks to capital infrastructure specifically where we are to give preference to Ontario goods and services followed by Canadian goods and services and apply a waiting factor to that. um so that at the end of the um evaluation the highest scoring content of a Canadian sorry Ontario followed by Canadian supplier would get that award. >> So do we know and I and I and I know I read the report and it said that it was minimal cost difference but there's obviously a cost difference if something's Ontario based rather than Manitoba based and and there's a cost factor there. Do we have any examples of of what we might be paying extra or what what the cost implications are of of not taking the lowest bid but taking the Ontario bid. >> So through you mayor Burton there is a calculation that the province has provided for us to be able to utilize um and I can share that with you moving forward but we haven't actually gone to uh purchase any um capital infrastructure using that formula. But in in theory, yes, we would be paying slightly more by utilizing the Canadian and Ontario content. >> So So I I by when you say by utilizing the Canadian and Ontario, is there a difference between utilizing the Ontario and Canadian? I'm I'm I'm I'm just like I have no problem with our Manitoba partners. I have a problem with our New York State partners. and and if we're all of a sudden charging more for Manitoba or Quebec um for stuff, is there a real value difference um between this legislation now than what our taxpayers were paying? uh through you mayor Burton again. Um there is a Ontario component that we're supposed to uh obviously apply first and then secondary we would apply any Canadian content and that formula would then result in the highest scoring Ontario and Canadian content would then be would get the highest percentage and then based on the fact of whether or not it's low bit or not we would have to apply that and they would ultimately get the award based on their Ontario and Canadian content. >> Okay. Well, I I I app I appreciate the I know you don't have the numbers in front of me because we haven't done it yet and we're starting there, but um will you commit to reporting back um and and looking at numbers and and uh and seeing what the additional costs are for buy Ontario to our taxpayers >> through you mayor Burton again. Yes, we have a tracking sheet that we're keeping track of all of those um different scenarios where we've had to pay more or less whether we've had Ontario versus Canadian. And um we also have that uh same program for the the fleet program which is forcing us to buy um made in Ontario vehicles followed by um Ontario vehicle manufacturers. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you councelor councelor Chisum. >> Thank you worship. Uh just a couple quick questions just for my clarity with respect to you're buying Ontario. uh let's go outside of Canada and and the US and I I I understand I think we're we're looking in Ontario first, Canada first, but um what happens with a single source where we don't have that service or that capital in in Ontario or in Canada? Uh can is there still the opportunity to go outside that uh RFPs to uh the states >> through you mayor Burton as well? So this only applies to capital infrastructure and fleet only. So to your to answer your question, yes, where there's still a single source opportunity that is not uh capital infrastructure or fleet, we would still maintain that single source opportunity. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor Chisum. Um can I get a mover and seconder for the recommended councelor Chisum and uh councelor Nanda. Thank you. Any objection? Mr. Clerk, there being no objection, 3.4 carries. Um, now we have uh 3.5 Municipal Election Compliance Audit Committee. Uh, Councelor Adams. >> Thanks very much. Um, I had a couple of questions which I've been going back and forth with the clerk's department on uh over the last day or two. Uh, and I wondered if staff could a go through the memo that you provided, which is now online, uh, which only came out, I think earlier today, that sort of intended to respond to the public, um, uh, letter that came in, uh, last Friday. Uh, wondered if you could walk us through that and and the response to the, uh, the letter from the resident. >> Uh, of course, through you uh, to the mayor. Uh, through through the mayor, to you, Councelor Adams. Just to confirm, you'd like me to first go through the correspondence received. >> Yeah, if you could go through the correspondence. So, there's a number of concerns that were raised in the correspondence. You provided a memo which was intended to uh respond to that. I wondered if you could uh be a little bit more public about that uh for transparency purposes because I'm not sure if people I'm not sure if the residents understood that that stuff was now online. Um and then second uh as a separate issue uh part of the conversation that was going on was with respect to the makeup of the uh the committee and how the membership was created uh and whether it would preclude people who are attached to election campaigns either as paid workers or as volunteers or family members thereof. uh and I wondered if you could provide us some suggested wording to capture that category of people uh to make sure that when a committee gets created it's free and clear of any political um shenanigans that might happen. >> Absolutely. So through you to the mayor. Uh so correspondence was received uh with respect to at at that time it was item 9.5 and uh there was the central concern of the correspondence had to do with a few items. one being the degree of reliance on municipal administration um and another one being uh limited transparency measures identified in the terms of reference. So to that a memo was prepared. It was included in the revised agenda which was published this afternoon uh provided to members of the public and members of council. So a few things that I wanted to highlight in the memo is the quasi judicial nature of the municipal elections compliance audit committee. Uh so I'll refer to that as the committee moving forward. Um I also wanted to identify the administrative role of the clerk in establishing the committee and supporting its work in accordance with the municipal elections act. So as I mentioned uh the quasi judicial nature of the committee. The committee operates at arms length from the town as an independent and administrative tribunal. Its decisions are made independently and are subject to judicial review. It's important to note that clerks and municipal staff do not direct or influence committee decisions or outcomes. Staff support is strictly administrative in nature and includes coordinating meetings, managing timelines, and procuring independent third-party auditors where required. The proposed framework which is attached as appendix A to the staff report uh is the draft terms of reference. Uh additional documentation that is to be developed is the rules of procedure which incorporates administrative practices and procedures along with applicable supporting documentation. All the documentation um developed has been developed with the involvement of external legal counsel at all stages and the importance of including external counsel. Um it ensures that um independent advice is provided um to the structure the processes the doc and that the documentation aligns with uh legislative requirements administrative law principles and procedural fairness. This really ultimately reinforces the independence of the committee um from municipal or political influence. Um also it's important to note under the municipal elections act clerks are responsible for administering municipal elections and safeguarding the democratic process in a number of ways which includes establishing this framework and the committee's creation. So a as identified in the uh in the staff report, the participating municipalities of the proposed joint municipal election um compliance audit committee will undertake a coordinated recruitment process uh for the committee members. Uh this process is administered by a selection committee which is comprised of clerks from the participating municipality m part participal municipalities and they are acting in their statutory role to administer the election framework. uh the recruitment, the evaluation and appointment process will follow the ter the approved terms of reference uh which is before council tonight and the rules of procedure which as I mentioned is developed uh in consultation with external legal counsel. So having these procedures will ensure a consistent merit-based and transparent selection process across all participating municipalities again free from both political considerations um as intended by the legislation. Now uh the the rules of procedure so that includes the administrative practices and procedures as well as any any supporting documentation. So that would include the application uh that individuals will have to complete should they wish to apply to serve on the committee. These documents will be made publicly available and it further sets out the detailed steps for recruitment and selection which includes public notice of vacancies, standardized application requirements, eligibility criteria and conflict of interest safeguards which after I um go into detail about the memo, I do have some further information around the selection um and recruitment process which may address uh your your last question. Um so the one thing that I wanted to speak to was uh while council does retain the authority to establish the committee and approve its governance framework, increasing direct council involvement which um I did I did hear in the correspondence that that was there was a a desire to increase council involvement um in administrative or adjudicative processes such as recruitment or selection details would risk compromising the committee's independence. The legislated model is intentionally structured to separate administrative and adjudicative functions from political decision-making consistent with principles of administr administrative law. So introducing introducing political oversight into these processes could expose the committee's work to legal challenge and undermine political sorry undermine public confidence in its impart impartiality. Um ultimately however as with all adjudicative board bodies established by the legislature like the committee decisions made by the committee as well as how decisions are made are subject to scrutiny uh by the courts. Um so at this point I I'm going to ask my my colleague to share the screen because I did just want to go over the selection the recruitment um process and ways in which um we safeguard um and identify who is not eligible to serve on the election compliance committee. So, I will note that the screenshots that I've included, they are from the 2022 because uh those these documents have not yet been developed um until uh for 2026. I wanted to wait until the terms of reference was approved by council. So, when these documents are uh prepared and finalized, they will again be vetted and reviewed by external legal counsel. So section 88372 of the municipal elections act sets out who is not eligible to serve on an election compliance audit committee. So this includes municipal employees, officers, members of council and any individuals who are candidates or registered third parties in the election for which the committee is established. So an excerpt of this legislation is uh provided on the screen. So moving to the next slide, the committee's terms of reference and rules of procedure further expand on these statutory restrictions. They disqualify individuals who have been candidates or thirdparty advertisers in either of the previous two regular elections, those who have conducted audits or provided financial advice for such campaigns. and any individuals who currently assist or intend to assist a candidate or registered third party, whether as a volunteer or for compensation, in the election for which the committee is established. As part of the application process, applicants must certify that all information provided is accurate. And so you'll see here that relevant excer excerpts uh from the 2022 applications are on the screen. And you'll see at the bottom of the screen um that you uh the all application sorry excuse me all applicants must uh certify that the information contained in their application is accurate and they must sign that off. Um so we have uh we have discussed some amendments uh with respect to uh number 1 C and E just providing some clarity um around the uh the family members. And so there is uh there are amendments that will be incorporated into the revised rules of procedure um which includes this committee application. And so I do have a couple slides, but councelor Adams through you, Mayor Burton, please please ask if you have a question at this point. Um so with respect to the amendment to 1 C of what you just showed us um the the terminology the wording that I saw was to move the um an amendment to include or any family members of same uh at the end of C which would um so A to add or campaign volunteer relationship or any family members of same into one C so that it captures anybody who's not only just employed by the campaign but volunteers for the campaign or family member of of any of those people. >> Correct. >> Um and so how would we make that happen? How do we make sure how does council uh give you that direction? So as uh through you mayor Burton as as mentioned earlier um we have received guidance from external council that is it is important to uh seek council's approval on the establishment of the terms of reference and leave the administrative matters uh for staff with the clerks of the participating municipalities to establish the the rules of procedure. Um, so you're saying this would be part of the rules of procedure and we we have to trust that um staff will do that >> through you, Mayor Burton. Uh, yes, but this these documents will be publicly posted online. >> So the the remedy is um public sunshine on it, so to speak, because that'll be available. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, that's fine. uh you included also a uh a proposed third point for us to pass as part of the memo and I wonder if you can just put that up. >> Yep, absolutely. Um so I don't know if we have the ability to uh to pull up the memo that was included in the revised agenda so that count uh so that council and the public could see it on screen. Uh but it was more so to um staff are recommending this added recommendation just for clarity uh that the clerk be directed to proceed in coordination with the other lower tier municipalities to commence recruitment, selection and appointment to establish the 2026 to 2030 uh municipal election compliance audit committee. And so that gives you marching orders to proceed with the the create not only just the creation of the terms of reference but actually filling the spots in >> well through you mayor Burton through um the terms of reference is attached as appendix A and that really does outline the mandate of the committee and the uh the the the authority that the um the clerks of the participant participating municipalities have in establish in in establishing and recruiting the members. So within the within the appendex which has the terms of reference, it does include a set of um criteria for which committee members um must be procluded, but it does not include the details that you've added to the procedure within um the slides that you just showed us. >> Correct. >> Is this the same set of terms of reference that we had previously? >> Uh through you, Mayor Burton. So again, uh we have engaged external legal counsel throughout the way um in terms of the development of the terms of reference, uh the draft administrative practices and procedures and the staff report. And it was re recommended and this is um in keeping with best practices across Ontario um to keep the terms of reference more broad um to to establish the mandate uh to establish comm uh the composition and and have it align with the municipal elections act. >> Okay. So the extra preclusions, >> yes, >> are they're not in the terms of reference, but they're being added by way of um the administrative allowance for staff to do. >> Correct. >> And so I'm I um I'm just trying to figure out how do how do we how does the public know that that's going to happen because it just kind of happens. Uh but there's no direction. uh if we if we do look to best through you mayor Burton uh looking at what we've done in past elections we've include those uh restrictions in the past and so we are going to look to not only best practices which um most municipalities do have similar restrictions but we are also going to see look to see what we've done in the past and and those restrictions were there um including the amendments as I mentioned uh with with to what we're proposing >> okay I'm going to leave off there I know councelor there's a couple of other counselors who have some questions So, let's hear from them and then see where we go. >> Thank you, councelor. Councelor Miler. >> Uh, thank you, Thor Burton. U thank you very much for for being here tonight, Andrew. And so, I I guess I look at this and I see this as a quasi judicial body that determines whether to order compliance audit of elected candidates and and whether to commence uh legal proceedings against them. So when I look at section 7 uh first um it defers the actual procedural rules, how hearings are run, how conflicts are handled, what the evidentiary standards are entirely to the clerk's department to develop later outside of council's view. Uh the same section allows the clerks to amend those terms of reference without coming back to council as long as they are uh consider the changes administrative. There's no defined limit on that. And third, while eligibility restrictions are meaningful, there's no defined consequences. If a conflict of interest arises during the committee's term, there's no removal mechanism or no reclusal uh procedure with teeth. Like should that just be all the should that really be on the clerk only or should not council be involved in some of this stuff to at least approve it? >> Through you, Mayor Burton. Um I I do want to I'd like to reiterate in in answering your question, councelor Elgar, um that clerks, they do have uh the authority and they are responsible for administering municipal elections and safeguarding the democratic process. And we do that in a number of ways. One being the establishment of the framework and the committee's creation. And um >> I guess my question would be can that be done prior to September the 1st so that at least uh all counselors have got their DNA on it agreeing to it >> through you mayor Burton. Uh the committee does have to be established by October 1st which means we do need to recruit and select and appoint the members prior to October 1st. So what that means is uh the administrative practices and procedures and the supporting documents which includes the application which will identify uh those that are not eligible to run on the committee. those if we're working backwards, we have to have those documents available and we have to start the recruitment process um at the latest by by July in order to allow time to to get the qualified applicants to submit their application to have that committee established by October 1st. So could we get this information I mentioned detailed so that we all have our DNA agreeing to it like in in in by August at least or either end of July that if we could do that I have absolutely no problems what you're doing >> through you mayor Burton if I can clarify councelor Elgar are you asking staff to report back to approve the rules of procedure for the committee >> that's what I was thinking and then we've got our DA out on it too not just a rubber for stamp which we are doing tonight >> through you mayor Burton what what staff are trying to um share with council is the guidance we've received from external c uh external council to identify the importance of separating um the council involvement in in the administrative matters res with respect to the establishment and the recruitment and the selection of the members so we >> I hear you so so what you're Vegas council is just a rubber stamp on this is what you're looking for. >> Please go ahead. >> I just want to get it out there so I know are we a rubber stamp or do we have any that we would review and at least agree to everything. Not that we could not disagree probably with the legal staff. But I just want to know the answer here >> if if I may. Councelor, the solicitor has risen twice uh in an effort to assist uh if uh you'll permit me to chair everybody. The chair will recognize our solicitor, Mr. Carr. >> Uh thank you your worship and and just to uh to assist my my colleague and and the counselor. I certainly wouldn't use the word uh rubber stamp. Uh what is before you reflects the reality of the statutory provisions of the municipal elections act which is really a complete code for the compliance audit committee and how it operates under the provisions of that legislation. The municipal compliance audit committee is completely separate and apart from municipal council. It's not subject to the rules and provisions of the municipal act. It's not a committee of council. It's not a local board of council. It's completely arms length and it was set up deliberately that way by the province. I think back in 2006 uh uh before that uh election uh campaign issues went to municipal councils. Um and then I think for various policy reasons the pol the province realized that that was not a a good situation because it set up conflict of interest uh positions. So uh starting in about 2006, the province set up this completely independent quasi judicial committee that um is essentially a gatekeeper and it receives uh uh applications for um audits and and may or may not direct uh legal proceedings coming from the their reviews. Um but it is completely subject to the robust uh principles of administrative law and uh subject to judicial oversight rather than political oversight. So that's how it's politically u sorry been set up uh by statute. The clerk's role is set out in the statute to u provide that administrative support. Um they're obligated. They have that duty. Um and it's in fulfillment of that duty that they're bringing this report forward. Uh council's role is under the act to establish the committee by October the 1st and uh at that point the clerks have their statutory role to uh complete the administrative uh processes and working with internal and external counsel to ensure uh everything is is done to ensure pro procedural fairness. So, Mr. Solicitor, before you counselor, councelor, could you could you allow me to chair? >> Uh, Mr. Solicitor, could you just explain therefore um why council is asked to approve the terms of reference? The uh council is asked to approve the terms of reference to ensure consistency with the provisions of the municipal elections act and to provide clerk with the uh direction to to proceed and uh act in accordance with those provisions. So the difference between the there are word differences in the terms of reference from last time which is what we're being shown and word differences and the the differences are between the description of who can be on the committee in the terms of reference from last time. I gather this is the old terms of reference. we're being asked to just renew uh the approval of. But in the slide that we were shown for the criteria uh there are different words for the selection and uh and what uh the counselor has taken us through is the perception that uh there are some additional words needed and uh and so normally when we're approving something we can amend it to approve it and I'm what I'm after here is advice from you that it's that the this approval that's required of us doesn't give us the right to amend it in any way. >> No, I think um in fairness, we're taking um that as a as a direction to take that away uh work with outside council to uh develop the practices and procedures that will reflect that change. >> Right. But what my specific question is, is council not allowed to amend the terms of reference that we're being asked to approve? >> You are allowed to amend the terms of reference. Yes. >> Thank you. In that case, the uh it may well be that council might like to amend those terms of reference in order to assure itself that these cautions that we're asking for will be there >> as opposed to asking external counsel if it'll be okay to put it into another document further downstream. >> Understood. Yes, you're being asked tonight to approve terms of reference. >> All right, council. So, your solicitor's advice is that you are able to amend and not required to just approve or rubber stamp as councelor Elgar called it. Councelor Elgger, uh, thank you for your patience, member. I thank you and and getting a little more confused as I listen to what Mr. car said because I I do believe now it is a 100% rubber stamp unless we ask to at least see uh how hearings are run, how conflicts are handled and what evidentiary standards are. uh you but there's there you know and it goes on everything I read out earlier and uh but I see why would why would we bother cuz really I think it's into the legal hands and I I'm not going to go further than that and I now understand and I guess I'll just put up my hand and rubber stamp whatever comes forward as long as that that's what I see. Thank you >> counselor. I I didn't follow that last leap, but okay. Councelor has the teal. Your turn. >> Um, thank you for your patience and thank you for all you do to make sure our elections run smoothly and democratically. If I understand this last bit of the conversation, there are some opportunities to adjust the terms of reference um to seek some clarity. So, um, can you just point me to how we understand, uh, vexacious claims are dealt with through you, Mayor Burton. Um that would be something that I would like to confirm but we do address that in uh the terms of reference see sorry the administrative practices and procedures however and I and I will ask um our town solicitor to jump in if if he has additional commentary but ultimately once an application if if we're speaking about a compliance audit application once an application is received D, it's up to the committee uh to to receive it and determine what to do with it and and its merit and external counsel uh as it was uh in in 2022 and and we will be retaining external counsel to guide and support the committee in understanding all terms around frivolous faxation vexacious uh procedural fairness as well. um and and at the end of the day uh really trying to recognize the the principles of the elections act and apply that in any decision that they make. >> So you referenced that they're going to get training. Yes. And >> so I used to live in the training world and some people do it really quick and some people are really detailed. So are there are there examples provided? is all of that. It's just so that people don't go through the pain just because somebody decided to throw a complaint at the committee. >> Uh, yep. Through uh through you, Mayor Burton. I might ask my colleague to throw up uh the uh the slides that I had um as the the the latest um information that I did provide did, if you wanted to just flip to slide three. Um this is one example uh sorry just page three it's probably coming. Yeah procedural fairness. So uh the training that was provided to the committee in 2022 um it was comprised of about a hundred slides and it was uh it was put on by external council. Uh this is simply an example of the slide and it does speak to procedural fairness. The excerpt that I included for this sake spoke to bias. Um, and so this would speak to whether or not an individual h would would recuse themselves from a matter declaring a conflict of interest or or declaring an interest. So the training is comprehensive. It's uh it's typically done a month or two prior to the compliance audit period closing um in order for the information and the material to be uh fresh and relevant for the committee. >> Thank you for that great explanation. So the other that I question I have is a removal mechanism. So um while we would always hope that people are forthright and honest um there may be a circumstance where somebody did not declare something they should have. Is there a removal mechanism uh through you mayor Burton? Absolutely. We will be including that in the administrative practices and procedures. Um again, these will be posted to the uh to the town's website um as it will be required to be available in order for individuals to apply to ensure eligibility. So that will be available on the town's website prior to recruitment commencing. So my last comment and question is on uh in the terms of reference it uses the phrase uh advice providing relationship with any candidate running for office on council or third party advisor. it doesn't say what you had in your memo to us where the question was uh um it wasn't as detailed as what you've got in the memo you sent us and I'm wondering uh if you are are you telling us you're going to put what's in the memo in the terms of reference so would preclude family friends election campaign volunteers or their families from being appointed are you are you saying that's what you're going to put in the terms of reference >> through you, Mayor Burton. Um there is going to be additional comp um uh committee comp composition details included in the administrative practices and procedures that will go into greater detail around that including the pieces that um would be included in the application which I showed on the screen earlier. So, I think the part that's confusing me a tiny bit, Andrea, is that we have a terms of reference in front of us, but really we need an appendix B, which is the administrative piece, and that's why we're we're kind of wondering where are certain things. >> Through you, Mayor Burton, uh, councelor Hzle, absolutely understand. Uh in past years um the both the terms of reference and the administrative practices and procedures have been pres to have been presented to council for approval. It was under the recommendation of external counsel that we've retained uh to assist and guide in the development of these documents that recommended the terms of reference um be be limited with all of those specific details placed in the administrative practices and procedures not to be presented to council for approval. Um again speaking to that political oversight piece that I spoke to earlier. >> Yeah. No, I absolutely appreciate that that we have to have arms length about all of this. Um, but if we are approving a terms of reference, understanding those other elements, um, I really don't think they're administrative as much as they are really telling us this is this is the scope of what's going to happen, but um, I really do appreciate you taking the time to explain it to us. >> Thank you, counselor. Councelor Omira, >> uh, thanks, Andre. Yeah, just to sort of springboard off of what Janet was saying, you know, it's kind of hard for us to sit here and have to approve and as as the town solicitor said, we get to amend the terms of reference tonight, but it needs to be politically sep separated, but we don't have the information. So, I I mean, how do how do we define what a family member is? Is it a first cousin, second cousin, third cousin? Is it uh you know, what what what's the scope we're looking at here? Are those people posted publicly first so anybody can raise objections if they say actually that is a relative of somebody that I know like how how is all this going to sort of evolve over the next three three or four months that we are responsible tonight to make a decision on >> through you mayor Burton um councelor Ramira so uh with respect to your first question um in terms of amending the terms of reference. If you wanted to include specific detail, uh, we can do that. Uh, there's there's no definitions currently included in the terms of reference. Um, I would I would turn to the town solicitor to confirm this, but in terms of definition of family members, it's it's typical to rely on the Municipal Conflict of Interest Act and the definition that they provide in that. Um, which if if there's a desire, we can amend the terms of reference to include that. Um, and in terms of your next question about um, somebody being able to um, object to the appointment of a member, um, I I may turn to to the town solicitor to to ask him to comment >> um, through you, uh, Mayor Burton. I think that becomes a challenge to try and narrow down tonight in terms of specific uh amendments to the uh terms of reference. I think this falls squarely within the the realm of administrative processes and procedures which are continuing to be developed um with the assistance of external counsel. So uh with the indulgence of council uh that's an area that we would uh develop in the course of uh developing those documents. Um I would uh concur with uh Andrea's suggestion about looking to the municipal conflict of interest act in terms of uh the definition of family member if you wish to uh incorporate that this evening in the u municipal uh in the terms of reference. >> Okay. Council um is there councelor Adams? I've uh just forwarded to members of council and to the clerk a proposed um amendment to the uh motion to change the terms of reference for the committee uh which would effectively be an amendment to part two of the recommendation. Want to make sure you've got that. And if the perhaps if the clerk could um if the clerk could take a look at that and let let us know if that terminology would be satisfactory, that would be helpful. >> It doesn't define family member. So the uh so it reads for for everybody who's following back at home uh that the terms of reference be amended to add the following to the list of individuals who are not eligible to sit on the committee. So this would add um a number of categories consistent with the framework that we were shown earlier but adds um some change to the first bullet which is any persons who are candidates or registered third parties in the 2026 municipal election or any persons connected to a candidate through employment contractual business partnership or campaign volunteer relationship or any family members of the same. So the intent is that candidate their families their volunteers the volunteers families uh and and employees and their families would be procluded. Uh then any persons who have participated as a candidate for office or registered third party in the past two regular elections or who have conducted audits or provided financial advice in respective such campaigns. So that's the same as what we were shown earlier. And third, any persons who do or intend to assist any candidate or registered third party as a volunteer or for compensation in the 2026 municipal election. So I see councilors and have their hands up. Maybe they have additions or changes or suggestions. Uh thank you councelor councelor. >> Yeah I thank you. I just I just have you know I I think it's difficult um with the terminology that says uh uh any anyone who's involved in a in in an election. I mean we've 30% voter turnout. So already only 30% of people are even aware that municipal elections are happening. Um to to to say that anybody who who dropped the door knocker on somebody's door doesn't have the right to challenge something or be involved or be involved on a committee I think is is probably a little uh a little too much over the pale here. I mean these are these are people that are engaged. They're not people um that are not engaged. And I think they do it. I I think we we go out on a limb here where we're trying to say, "Oh, I'm sorry. You put a door knocker up for somebody? Yeah, you can't be involved." Right. I I I'm just we're getting into a a corner here that I think we're we're we're limiting the availability of people to engage in our municipal process that that it's already small enough. I I mean I I I don't think we've I don't think doing this on the fly is is might be the best way to do it because I think we're going to we're going to get into a circle here that you know somebody alleges I saw somebody put a door hanger up and they're now on the committee. Now I want to challenge that. I mean I I don't know how we how we test that or how we we we uh we judge that one. >> Thank you councelor councelor Elgar. >> Uh thank you through my burden to councelor Abs Tom. I'm trying to figure out any the last one, any persons who do or intend to assist any candidates. I'm just wondering how we could really enforce how we would know for sure that that that's the one that I think I'd like it, but I'm just trying to figure how could we determine that. >> Councelor Elgar, that's a it's a great question, but that's what our clerks are already using. >> That's what they used last time around. >> I'm not sure how well that worked. Councilors, councilors, you don't need to wonder because um our deputy clerk, Andrea Coin, has an answer. >> Okay, >> perfect. >> Through you, uh Mayor Burton, I'll once again ask my colleague to pull up the uh the slide deck on the last slide. Um it is just the the fourth safeguard measure that we have with respect to ensuring no conflict of interest. at the start of every meeting um we do have the chair confirm with members any declarations of interest. So this may um this may provide some um some solution to the the fact that even if an individual volunteered or placed a door knocker on uh somebody's door on behalf of a candidate and they were then or their family member a family member of the such um is is a member of the committee. at the start of all meetings they do have to declare a conflict of interest with the matter at hand. So if um if it was a door knocker or if their um their sister or their aunt participated in a voluntary way on a campaign of another candidate um then they they would not have to declare a conflict of interest in that case. But if it was the candidate in question in which they were involved or their family member was involved in, they would have to uh in in accordance with the rules of procedure have to recuse themselves um because of a conflict of interest and they would declare a conflict of interest. >> Well, Andrea, thank you so so much for saying that. I I so you you're I hear what you're saying. You're taking their word for it. So if they're if they are not telling the truth, we have no way of knowing any different. I I appreciate that. I'm not sure how well it works, but uh that's all I'll I'll have to say. I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor Elgar. Uh I have a question for the mover of the motion. Actually, I have a question of council first. Is there a seconder for this motion? Uh councelor Null. Thank you. I have a question for the mover of the motion. Is the third bullet uh included in the first bullet? Uh is there any chance that we're being that you're being uh duplicative? >> Uh I I would say yes. Uh it is a duplication. Um it's it's as I said it's uh similar to what the clerks have been using previously. So uh to the to the extent that there's duplication, it might already be there. Though the first bullet is now including campaign volunteers where the previous clerk's material did not include volunteers in that line. So maybe u >> So if you want to strike the third bullet, I would think I'd be okay with that. >> I I'm not asking you to I'm asking you to cons I'm not asking you to strike it. I'm asking you if you think it's duplicative and if it is uh and you want to keep it, you might want to add the uh the tail of the first one to the tail of the third one. the the only difference that uh is there within the third one is that it's it's forwardlooking because it says any person who does uh or intends to. So there's a element of I'm I'm signing up to be on this committee, >> right? >> And >> so the tail of the first bullet, the family members, you're omitting it from the third bullet and I'm asking why. >> Oh, uh well, it could be added in. Um well, if you and the seconder could work that out. Council needs to know what it's going to vote on. >> Okay. Uh if you if you give me a minute, I think I'd be happy to add the extra wording um to the the third bullet so that it would read any persons who do or intend to assist any candidate or registered third party as a volunteer or for compensation um in the 2026 municipal election or any >> I think I do need some time. All right. >> Please give me a moment. >> All right. So, um, we're happy, I think, to take it that to read it in and the clerks will add it in the final version. You don't need to do another circulation unless you want to. Um, I don't think we've heard from councelor Null on this yet. And councelor Omira and councelor has the deal we have. So, I'm jumping down to councelor null and we'll come back. Councelor null. >> Thank you. Just a helpful um potential clarification. I know that the solicitor addressed this in some of his comments, but instead of using the word family member, Infipa refers to close relatives and and has a definition of what a close relative is. So, it becomes less ambiguous. Should we not should we not use that terminology? >> Oh, sorry. To the mover. >> Um if that would be the preference of our legal staff, I'd be happy to include it that terminology. Yeah. Um that is in in effect the the intent here. Yeah. Um, so >> because it avoids the ambiguity of what a family member is and and FIPA clarifies what a close relative is. So we could that's that's the legislation we're already working under. So why not? >> Mr. Solicitor, >> I always get uncomfortable when we start drafting on the council floor. Um, and these are are excellent questions and you don't want to get them wrong. Um, and the other uh point I'll also make is that all of our partner municipalities also have to endorse the terms of reference, right? So, uh what we do here might not meet uh what Burlington wants to do or or or some of the other participating municipalities. I just uh just raise that as a flag. Um the only uh comment I would make is the previous um exclusion referenced family and family members. And so if we're moving away from that language, um I think we'd want to be very clear about the difference and what the implications are of moving away from that. and and to in all cander I I don't feel I can give you a clear answer on that tonight between family and close relation was that the phrase counselor in FIPA refers to close I think it's close relative yeah it it it defines a close relative close relative is defined as parent child grandparent grandchild brother sister uncle aunt nephew or niece included by adoption >> and you're reading that from inipa Did Did the solicitor hear you? >> Oh, in FIPA. It's from the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, it's for the mover and secretary to decide what they how they want to phrase it. You've had the advice of the solicitor. I'll follow the I mean I I would prefer to go with that because then there's it's absolute clarity because I don't remember who raised it over here but I mean that that's always a a consideration when you say family member that could it depends on how you define family and different people define family in different ways close relative that's actually tied into legislation I think makes some sense. >> I await your decision. >> Um I I would in a perfect world we pull up the MEA definition because we're talking about MEA stuff here. Um, >> all right. While you do that, we will return to councelor Omera and councelor Hazatil. Councelor Omera, thank you for your patience. >> Uh, no problem. I I just the the third bullet that you're asking people to prove intent. And if you've ever watched Matlock, the one thing you can't do is prove intent. Um, so if you intend to support somebody, I mean, that's just a fail right there. You you can't prove intent. So, we're setting ourselves up for failure there. uh I intended to do something or I didn't. I you know at at this point I would be I' I'd be more I'd be more comfortable if we just referred this back to staff to take a look. I I don't think we're we're any we're doing this on the fly as our solicitor said right now. We're not comfortable with what's happening. I you know um you know to me this just does this is not making sense what we're doing right now. uh instead of going smaller and micro on what a family is defined as, why don't we just pull back and say if you if you have or you appear to have a conflict of interest, that's enough and you better declare it. When you start getting into, well, I was a second cousin and not a third. I mean, we we we're getting down a path here that that I don't think is is is helpful to anyone. So, I I uh I'll I'll I'll let it work its course for a minute, but I would be more than happy to defer this refer this back to staff to come back to us with with a little bit more clarity because I don't think this is helping us at all right now. So, I'll uh I'll uh step back. >> Councelor has a deal. >> Um through you, Mayor Burton. I'd like to move deferral um to give everyone an opportunity to uh to consider what's been said. I think the solicister was very clear, you know, we're trying to we're trying to draft on the fly and I really do appreciate councelor Nol's um uh fluency like you raised some interesting points but like come back with something that's you know that has considered all this and tell us you know one last time. So uh versus just this back and forth debate. So I move deferral. Um let's see if that helps us. Councelor, is there a secondary for a motion to defer? Councelor Omira. Now, uh, councelor Hletil, a motion defer, motion to defer is a motion to delay and, uh, it has no object. It has no return date and uh, we are told that we must approve a terms of reference. Would you like to consider how to rephrase your your motion or shall I? I mean, otherwise I would vote against it. >> So, Mayor Burton, if I say refer it back to consider what has been said and return by June 1st, would that meet the standard? >> It would be even better if we I think referred it to the town solicitor to to draft it for us. >> I think that that sounds great. >> Well, thank you for that. Councelor, are you comfortable seconding that? Uh then uh councelor Chisum, unless you're speaking on whether to refer it to the solister or not, you're out of order. You have to wait. >> Yes. >> All right. Is there any objection to the motion to refer to the solicitor to draft it for us? Uh councelor Null and Councelor Chisum, your hands are up. I apologize. >> Uh I'm going to assume that you're not objecting. >> Not objecting. But do I can I ask a question with respect to the other municipalities and where? >> No. >> Okay. I'm out of order. >> Uh there being no objection, Mr. Clerk, the motion to refer succeeds and you can save your questions for the return of the item. That's how that process works. So 3.5 did not pass. Now we have All right, council. The the most important thing on the agenda tonight is actually the 5.1 discussion item, the comprehensive study of Oakville's urban forest. And uh you've been sitting uh and working hard and I think you need a fivem minute break. So we'll return at 9:00. We're in recess. >> Recording stopped. All right, I'm calling council back to order. And um before we turn to 5.1, the chair recognizes councelor has a deal. U Mayor Burton, uh through you, uh item 5.2, town square project update. Uh while I I would obviously respect um all the other counselor's desire if they wish a presentation um I can affirm for you that uh from a BIA perspective uh from uh the local counselor's perspective we are um uh very supportive of the hard work that's been done on the towns square project the the necessary additional mitigation measures that have been uh you know worked through uh so that you can know that uh when it's all said and done, there is a town square that you're going to continue to love even more. Um and so I'd like to move uh the recommendation if uh if that would assist us tonight. >> Thank you, councelor. Could we get a seconder for that? Councelor Chisum. Thank you. Uh council, is there any objection? Um Mr. Clerk, I'm going to assume the mover's hand is not in objection and I'm going to declare that this is carried unanimously. Thank you everybody. Um and now uh 5.1 ITree the grow growing resilience a comprehensive study of Oakville's urban forest 2025. If we give our attention to Jalil Hashimi, the manager of Forest Service, we will be edified and uh delighted and uh or Chris depend depending on whether the script I've been handed is operative or not. Through your Mayor Burton, um I was going to introduce Mr. Hashem, but you've done a terrific job of that. So, I'll just turn it over to Jalil and he'll take us through the presentation. >> It's great working with you, Chris. Thank you. Jal, welcome. We've been look I've been looking to forward for this for two days. So, thank you. Good evening. I'll be presenting the results of I3 urban forces study which provides a comprehensive assessment of our urban tree uh population, tree health, structure, canopy cover, leaf area, urban forest function and ecosystem uh benefits. Uh this project was a collaborative effort involving the town of Oakville and several specialized uh partners from industry and research bringing strong technical expertise to the study. The study area is south of Dundas Street uh shown in red here. And just explain why not north. And I'm going to reserve because I'm trying to finish this presentation in 10 minutes. I'm going to reserve what we have done for north and what we're going to be done for the questions. You can add question at the end as why not because as you know uh or not know uh I2 is a plot-based inventory. Uh so it means that the certain plots go and information collected and then information is going to be used from that moment on. It means that the plots are landing on changing landscape in an intensive transitional urban urban urbanized area which is going through from a vacant land in a year or two years to a different land use then it's obsolete. It's not going to help us at all and normally we do not do it in an area that that transition is fast-paced and we are changing in one year to the other year. It can be limited just to an area of assumed land with a specific land use that is not changing and we have done that. Ask question and I'm going to tell you what we have done. Um the purpose was to support um evidence-based decision making uh quantifying ecological benefit and guide strategies to achieve our 40% healthy canopy cover target by 207. The study you area this study used a suite of iTree tools. Here it title project component to assess force structure environmental benefits and canopy cover. I walk through the key findings following by recommendation. Uh data collected from 372 plots shows Oakville tree population has increased by 700 trees since 2015 as well as a species diversity and um and environmental um did I say 700,000 >> okay and environmental benefit like pollution removal and carbon sequestration also have increased while tree mortality has decreased also you can see that you don't we don't have northern maple amongst the top tree species in leaf area anymore. Overall indicating actually a much healthier urban forest. Uh we're seeing a shift toward more trees on public land while the percentage of private tree population declined. This has important implication for long-term canopy plan on private properties. Tree size distribution shows the largest increases in uh small trees between 0 to 7.6 cm. mainly it's actually between 5 to 7.6 cmters and that's reflecting a strong uh planting and uh natural regeneration start from 2016. Uh leaf area density by land use show residential land use has the highest leaf area followed by woodland reinforcing the critical role private properties play in achieving canopy targets. carbon storage by tree species um data showing large statue trees such as maple and oak contribute to the most total car carbon storage reflecting both growth and long-term planning success. Looking at net carbon sequestration by three species data. Norvi maple lead annual sequestration significant increase in white cedar and buckthorn population showing an increase in carbon sequestration as well. But sugar maple that increased in size and storage. Reduced annual sequestration that highlights how tree health and growth dynamic influence the outcome. Carbon sequestration by land use indicate residential areas A and B together contributes more net carbon sequestration than woodlands. Again emphasizing the importance of private land in delivering environmental benefits. Annual air pollution removal uh by urban forest data indicates a significant increase in air pollution removal since 2015. uh resulting in major health benefit particularly reduction of the most critical pollutant PM2.5 which also shows the highest associated value. The major potential pest threatening urban forest include spotted landerfly and Asian long gorpedo and oak wilt. And as you know spotted danderfly and Asian longhorn that we don't have it in Oakville and as well as oakill but the two first one they do have a much wider host species. That's why the impact on structural value of urban forest is more significant. Here you can see that uh I3 street tree assessment is based on our tree inventory uh indicates street tree population increased by over 10,000 trees since 2015 while maintaining a very high health rating of 95%. Strategic size distribution um shows the highest highest population is actually in midclass mainly is 15 to 30. That is the result of ash tree removal and extensive tree planting on a streets in 2015 161 17 that trees are growing now to that size classes. Leaf area versus population data reiterating that tree species which higher proportion of leaf area per size uh like normal maple, silver maple and little leaf lendon contribute disproportionately more canopy benefit relative to their population. The dot is the population. The bar, the blue bar is the leaf area. In terms of annual ecosystem services um which include pollution removal, avoided runoff and carbon sequestration, northern maple and silver maple followed by honeyloust and leaf flendon provide the highest ecosystem services. Interestingly treated ash trees are also amongst the top 10 trees providing high ecosystem services. uh the tree hazard debatement cost in major storm like the one that we experienced in December 2013 ISIS storm uh is over $18 million. It has increased significantly uh from 7.1 million in 2015 and I do remember ISIS storm we spent 6.5 million in 2013 and 14 m mainly um 14 that is driven by larger tree population and rising operational cost of course uh this map uh shows um this is a part of I3 hydro study area which include all watershed that the town of Oakville is located in including south and north. This is not a plot-based u included north Oakville represent 18% of the watershed area but you need to know that we are creating actually uh or having contributing 28% of the uh total runoff. However, the 24% tree cover in Oakville, see that 19.5 plus 4.3 tree over pvious and tree over impervious compared to 3.3% in the whole wershed. That really plays a critical role in managing runoff and should be considered a key component of wershed management, increasing canopy cover. The urban forest cooling effect data indicates every 10% increase in canopy cover is associated with about two degrees reduction in maximum temperature in urbanized area. Uh you can see in this slide that different methods point-based versus continuous using imagery as Google view satellite image or LAR provide different uh results and different numbers. In the preparation of the report we noticed that that using Google view 30.26 to 30.2 two this is inconsistent with the number of trees that have been planted 700,000 trees how it declined I ask actually we we ask the consultant to find the inconsistency and they find out that in Google view that you've been used since when i3 become public free for everyone they're using Google Earth view and that is a mosaic of different pixels and those pixels you expect that they're all from the same year and they're all either leaf off or leaf on. But it's not the case. Some of those pixel are leaf on, some of those pixel are leaf off because it doesn't intend to be a a base for a research is for people going from A2 to be pretty much and seeing things without cloud cover everything and it also some part parcels or pixels are outdated or from the years before. For that reason, we asked to go to a more robust u method which is continuous land classification which is not based on the point and use satellite image, aerial photo and lidar for the um continuation of this study and this is one of the recommendation that in future we are going to use continuous land classification and satellite image aerial photo and LAR. So, and that result shows that our canopy from 2015 increased from 25.5% to 29% which is the most accurate and is still the highest. This slide just as an example. See the 2015 on your left and 20 U 24 the small gaps. This is what LAR does. This is both the same area but one of them is just by remote sensing data. The other one plus lidar which is canopy height model see it's smallest gap in a woodland and the other one is from the town looking south you will see everything here you will see building you will see the trees power lines you see um hydropoles um and all of them can be also measured uh you know the height of trees and everything that's so with that accurate continuous land classification And what we have accomplished still all of the land uses increased the canopy cover and the only land use decreased the canopy cover was woodland from 81.1% to 78% almost 3% and that is this is due to uh ash removal and due to bturn removal and to the fact that our extensive woodland regeneration is it at earlier stage they're establishing but they're not showing a canopy yet. And also this canopy height model is not considering any any uh vegetation of shorter than 3 mters. That's why they're not captured here. And this one again reiterate the importance of residential land uh providing 47% of our uh canopy and the second one 38%. So in summary, the urban forest is growing and delivering more benefits, but we are seeing an increased pressure from invasive bucktor from 2% in 20 2005 to 10% in 2015 and now 20 and now 16%. We're seeing an increase in imperous land cover and also a decrease in potential u planting area. The finding highlight the importance of linking invasive species management and forest ecology with forest management and applying biological and ecological knowledge to urban forest management and conservation. Um recommended action items include continuing woodland regeneration and invasive species management particularly targeting bucktor and updating woodland inventory for woodlands heavily affected by EAB. Additional comments is uh include um finding innovative mechanism increasing tree planting on private land which is very important using continuous land classification method that make use of SLA satellite imagery and known vintage and LAR data to assess urban forest canopy and include north and south Dundas in our next iterate study which is in 2033. E3 at the time I believe that we can have our plots landed in the uh in the non-transitional land uses and thank you for your patient and I would be happy to take any questions. >> Well uh thank you very much uh Mr. Hashimi. We have questions uh half a council has questions. Councelor Chisum is first. >> Thank you worship Joe. I I I must commend you on on the detail and the the technology that we have for our tree canopy and what what you're providing the information. It's well established and we're in moving in the right direction. The the only the only question I have is the buckorn um that seems to be an increase. And is it really a tree or is it is it more plant material? Is it shrubs? Buckorn is it is it classified as a tree? uh through you may mayor Burton uh based on the height and agricultural definition yes it's a tree it uh and as long as they are when they are under four meters we call them shrubs but when they reach the height of 4 meters and above we call them trees for for that u it is both it is in our plot data you can see that in shrub layer and you can see that as tree layer depending on the height So in in the report you've also indicated um under noxious weeds under the property standards uh is that been clarified or is that is that now it's still in the works with respecting uh to get rid of buckthornne in residential area. Is that because of residential you're looking at the noxious weed um uh property standards bylaw? I I'm trying to understand how that's going to work >> through you mayor Britain. There are some species that uh the direction from invasive species center M&R we can easily enforce there one that they are identified and invasive and uh we can also include BTOR in that category and and ask that as a property standard if the private property have BTOR order them under private property standard to remove them. So the bottom line if it's on priv private property we don't have really any authority to say go in go in there and take it out but under under the property standards and moving that now creates the situation where we can put notice out to the the private land owner saying you have to get rid of this or else is that correct >> through Mayor Burton yes that's correct >> I like that >> there are facilitation in private tree bylot they don't have to pay for uh bal removal and they're exempt from permit fee and replacement. >> Uh that's facilitation but not we don't enforce private property to remove uh bucktorm we can't on the property standard we can. >> Okay. And my last question uh red eliminating uh Google Earth because it's I guess the technology is not kept up and you're looking at the LAR is that correct >> to you mayor Burton i3 uh because of the funding problem in United States is not available as a free uh software they're asking for donation from different so we're not going to have that anymore but regardless we find out that i3 canopy uh using I3 canopy model is not accurate because we would like to have the ability to go with a combination of multisspectral uh remote sensing image plus LAR which is not this is a different and we are suggesting that we the town to implement that it's not costly it's in the report $9,000 a year to receive that for us to do that every year and provide you an updated canopy cover every year by that cost with an accuracy. >> Jill, thank you very much. Thank you. >> Thank you, counselor. Councelor Giddings. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Through you, uh, great presentation, Jill. Question. In 9 years, Buckthornne goes from third top to number one. Having been on the uh working side of a contraption to pull Buckthornne out by the roots, uh I know the difficulty very well in terms of pulling these things out. Are there what kind of program do we have to deal with them uh when they're fairly young and small without the uh root buildup? >> Through you, Mayor Britain. Uh we do include that in most of our communication with our uh NGO partners in Oakville Green. They are participating in anything that is not able it doesn't need any tools. uh they are also helping us. Uh it's not about the size and complexity, it's about the size that the the earlier the better. Uh if we start sooner because as they grow it's not just about the how difficult it is. They change the uh chem physiochemical characteristic of the soil. There is a balance between microisa and risogenesis. And so this balance is changed and when this balance changes no other invade other trees can grow rather than bucktor. That's why the younger the better. But our mechanism is woodland regeneration. All of them start with bctor removal regardless of the size. We remove all of the buckthorn especially in prime site that and then we plant native trees and we treat them not to come back and under invasive species audit control also we have a section of uh just removal of bucktorm and treatment that's it and and letting natural regeneration and natural succession of the woodland to take over so those are applicable but uh there are certainly limitation in resources both financial resources and physical resources which we are working within that limitation. >> No, thank you. I appreciate the constraints. I didn't realize that buckthornne as it matured rendered the soil useless for other uh for other trees to grow. Does that wear off in time or is that it or is that uh permanent? >> When it changes in time, we can plant trees. when not we need to do some additional work of soil actually u you know remediation let's say and the difficult if I understand correctly the difficulty with mature buckthornne is if you cut it out uh you have to apply an herbicide of some sort or else the roots just uh multiply out of control >> through you may burden either way we have to apply. If we don't take them by the roots, we have to apply uh regardless of the size and they have uh extensive roots. They size might not be that big, but even sharp size, they have extensive roots. We and we need either to do that or we can uh just spray the standing buckthorn and that's very very effective and it kills them actually >> and it changes >> in terms of forest health. uh 2015 83% and and uh 2024 57%. Is that weather climate related, pollution related? What's the leading driver on that? >> If I may ask to repeat those numbers, please the numbers please. uh 83% of the trees in good or excellent condition uh for the forest health and crown and that's dropped to 57%. Quite a drop. >> Yes, through you uh Mayor Burton. The reason I didn't bring it up and discussed is IT3 actually changed their classification. They used to have a um good and they didn't have any excellent. They change that and the whole change of that make the comparison obsolete. You can't compare things that have been changed. The classification for fair, good, excellent changed in 207 or 18 if I'm remember correctly for that. >> I appreciate that. >> Count that. Yeah, >> I will look at it as uh as uh not as big a negative then. We'll we'll we'll go with that one. So you may burton there in technical report which is also is going to be available for counselor that has been well explained about the change of the methodology that make that number not comparable. >> Excellent. And the the uh percentage of possible pvious planting area quite a drop. Is that because we've planted in most of the likely spaces and we're running out of boulevards and parks to to plant trees >> through you mayor Burton both that is one reason the other re the increasing of pvious impervious the increase is 4%. 40 to 44% it's not 10%. So the 10% is decrease of tree plant available potential tree planting space which pretty much we I can tell that 98% of our streets and parks south of Oakville uh are stocked and and we are having a very you know intensive woodland regeneration that taking all of that uh number and bringing that down. So technically we're moving to that direction of using every applicable uh you know plantable space. That's why the number goes down and down. All right. And last question. We've got a lineup of my colleagues here. Um you're doing what you can to encourage residents to plant on private property. at the same time we have fewer public places uh to plant these trees. So just uh maybe that's something we could discuss at a later time. Thank you very much. Thank you Dio Roberto but just want to mention that we do have some ideas that have been discussing in community services parks and open space other municipalities are using different like Montreal are having a grant program for planting trees and we do actually now uh working with Oakville Green providing trees for school yards and they do the manual work. There are things that we started already and we're going to continue on that. >> Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Councelor, thank you for your patience. >> Thank you to member Burden. I thank you for this detailed report. It's a it's a part report I think we all appreciate. Um I know one thing is that you mentioned town plants a minimum of 5,600 trees per year. I think that's important because what you're saying is if we keep doing that, you are hoping by 2049 that we'll have 40% cover. And if we and also at by 2057 44% cover uh it is that do you feel that is accurate information because that's good news >> um through you mayor Burton that's an analysis based on available uh pvious area that we do have technically this is a desktop practice comp uh and we know that we are not able to have the existing condition of keeping all of the pvious surfaces the urban intensification is a reality. We cannot stop that and that's going to change for that reason. This is a desktop. It's a good story that we are capable based on existing impervious if doesn't change at all and if we plant the trees to the number that we can we are able budget wise and all of that we can achieve canopy cover that early in 2044 but the reality is we need to work hard to have canopy cover target which I still believe is achievable 40% by 207 Not >> 44%. >> 44% >> not 40 not 44%. We our goal our guideline our canopy plan guideline that we have updated it improved it recently with the help of planning and development department. Uh we our intention is achieving 40% by 207. I think this is more uh reasonable expectation. >> Okay. So when I read the report where it says 40% by 2049 and 44% by 207 that's changed now to 40%. In 2015 >> uh through you mayor Burton. No, that is the assessment of create >> existing condition >> if doesn't change and everything that we do have now convert all the plantable space all the previous uh area that we do have to be converted within that period of time to trees. If we do that, yes, but this is like a desktop practice. The continuous land classification normally provide a very positive uh you know uh vision that you are able to do that still but you have to work based on the reality. This is a an exercise based on existing whatever stop everything and give us countless you know all the money. Yes. >> That well that's where I was going. You as long so the minute money as long as you get 5600 trees a year that's enough money. Uh if we if we plant 5,600 trees a year and yes we can achieve that >> and okay 50,000 5600 actually >> 5600 and 5600 are >> you know you can compare that with on a street and parks not in woodland on a street and parks and that is the number and the current number is 2,000. I'm glad you brought up the woodlands because we're going there next and that's concerns me. The health is declining. I know councelor Giddings mentioned 2015 we had 83% at good excellent 2024 dropped to 57%. However, wood lots the ecological heart of the forest the lowest percentage of healthy trees at 43%. And the highest rate of dead trees is 10%. That's a concern and I I know we you know and Buckthornne since 2005 has gone from 2% to now in 2015 it was 10.6%. And now it's 16 16% already and as you say that's a big concern and it's overtaken the eastern white cedar and the sugar maple and it's it's dominating the woodland layers. Yeah. So I guess you you're you're active on that. So, I just think this is one of the better reports I've ever read cuz you're not just all painting a happy happy news story for everybody. It's we have to wake up. Development pressure. I love it. The report explicitly identifies Bill 23, more homes built faster as a concern, noting it narrowed the mandate of the conservation authorities and reduced the scope of the site plan requirements as they relate to the urban forest. Thank you. the since 2018 the canopy loss in North Oakville has been directly attributed to new subdivision development clearing of land again excellent report uh pvious planting area has dropped from 31% to 21%. What's really shocking is the impervious surfaces. The roads, buildings, parks have increased by 401 hectares since 2015, now covering 44% of South Oakville. Like, so that's what's imp that's impervious based on the roads, buildings, and parking. And it's 44% has been that's where we are now. Wow. Um, key recommendations. Well, You know something we have to make sure we we listen to you say 5600 trees we have to enhance our targets. I'm wondering should we enhance them more? Is 5600 enough? I'm asking >> through you mayor Burton uh in road and parks it might not be as easy as planting 5600 trees finding we definitely if uh we bring forward in 2027 budget an increase of 2,000 trees to 5600 trees. Uh then once the budget approved we are going to start implementing that. However uh the first year the second year might be a pilot and we'll see uh how much of the plantable space on a street and active park we do have to plant. It's not uh you know as you appreciate uh it's an area that the main intention is balancing rather than stopping u any urban intensification uh because it's to the best of my knowledge in an urbanized area with a port big portion of the properties are private properties we legally don't have the control to stop uh urban an intensification and considering that we might be some real limitation and the good story is regardless of all of that change of land uh impervious from 40 to 44%. Still we do have residential land that contribute 47% to our urban tree canopy. That's impressive to me. So it's a combination of good story and bad story. The reality I think it's always like this. I think the real life is also a combination of good and bad. And we try to expand our ability to work in the good area while understanding the reality of urban intensification is a reality in urbanized area. >> Well the universe. >> Yeah. Because you do say protect the pvious growing space through zoning require the minimum permeable area in all new development. I guess that's as you have to say to the degree possible that we can. I thank you for the report extremely detailed and not all just glowing. It is it's giving us a taste of reality. I thank you to you and your staff and to uh Chris Mark and everybody. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you councelor Councelor Omira. Um, thank you so much, Julio. And I just want to start off by saying, I know we talked a few weeks ago and you're supposed to be on a flight somewhere with your family tonight and last night and you delayed that. Um, so our our decisions have real impacts on our staff's lives. So, I appreciate you um, you know, what you do for us and being here for uh, to give us this report. I know it means a lot to you and your family. So, thank you for that. Um, just one question with regards to the buckthornne and it's to go off of councelor Giddings images. There are a lot of people I know who have buckthornne in their backyards. Is there a program by which the town will come by and as the only authority that can put the chemicals on it that will not allow it to seed and sprout? Do we not are we considering a program whereby the town can work with private property owners to eliminate buckthornne where we will go by if they cut it down we will spray it we will so it cannot continue to grow um and we will maybe give them some other we're looking to plant trees we will give them some other alternative what are we doing to incentify every single backyard owner who has buckthornne growing everywhere to to get rid of it and to transfer over to natural species is >> through you mayor Burton. We don't have that currently but I think it's a great idea. Uh I think we can venture that. However, we should respect the limitation of uh are we allowed to work on private property as being town employee or invest our resources on private property because of BTOR. This is something that I probably I'm going to need uh you know um legal department to give help me understand whether I am allowed to do that or not. But however if you're allowed if council believe that we should do that it's like we can donate our time rather than money. We can donate our time and treat them. Uh >> well, I I look forward to that and I I look forward to to hopefully helping uh you develop that program and at budget time. I mean, as the only authority that can use chemicals and use pesticides for invasive species u sorry other than, you know, golf courses or something that we you you hold a um a special place in terms of being able to knock this stuff down and do it. And I think there are a ton of private homeowners who would love to partner with the town and say, "I got all this crap growing here to keep growing." Um, and if you've got the the the knowhow, uh, I've got the land and and we'll we'll do something. So maybe uh perhaps um there's a recommendation for uh or a request for report coming uh um for the next term of council where we can look at a program where uh where we work with private property residents, get rid of the buckthorn because that that is is obviously a problem for everyone. Thank you. through humor very than I just for clarification I didn't say that we are the only one uh any landscaping company any argiculture firm with exterminator license they are available if they pay them they're available they can do the treatment with the garlan uh that they have not just uh municipal government they can do that too >> fair enough thank you very much >> thank you counselor councelor Nanda Thank you to you, Mayor Burton. Thank you so much for the presentation. Um I do understand that this study was not done in the north. Uh but just a question about the future study if if you're able to answer. We don't have a lot of private lot trees. A lot of our street trees are just on the boulevard. And so I was wondering for your future study, will you be looking at different criteria in terms of measurement of what will be acceptable canopy coverage in the north? >> Through you, Mayor Burton. U we have already started because we thought that after this report done in 2024, it is not fair for North Oakville. We need to know what's going on in North Oakville. We measured all the trees in the sub oldest subdivision in 2016 and compared them and we measured them back uh currently and we measured their growth and we find out that some of our guideline that we used to apply for canopy and spacing is not helping north to achieve the 20% canopy cover target for residential area north. That's why we work with uh planning and development department uh the uh the staff and forestry staff have together and we updated that now we do have a different uh actually guideline which a different spacing and I presented that to the builders and developers lays on two times and uh and that helped us to achieve the 20% canopy for that and in addition What we are going to do is in 2027 uh the 9,000 budget which is a part of this report is including north and doing a continuous land classification canopy assessment for north and south as well as as well as the 2033 which is going to be I3 combination of both north and south. >> Okay, thank you. And so do you know if certain species of trees were used in the north to limit growth? >> Um through you mayor Burton. uh this species uh our planning department and forestry working together again to say the inv native species and this species is uh first uh the species is preferred is native large m uh stature trees but if we don't have enough growing space because the growing space uh dictate us above ground and below ground uh growing space the fact that in some areas The distance between two driveways in north is very limited and also the distance from the p the private property to their house set back is small. That's the area that we are limited to have medium stature or even sometime smaller stature trees but all native. >> Okay. And then just just my last question, do you know if we have a buckorn issue up north as well >> through you mayor Burton? We do know that we do have it in woodlands mainly in woodlands and woodlands north is another challenge that we should tackle. We do have natural heritage system and and woodland that does have less than 30% canopy. So and we had farmland also have been lands used in natural heritage system or linkages we are working what we have done is in 2026 actually 80% of our woodland regeneration is in north north >> okay thank you and we appreciate the work that we've been able to do with oakville green to for our tree so that's that's been great work thank you so much >> thank you thank you counselor Councelor Null. >> Thank you, worship. Uh I will just say to that everybody else, what everybody else has been saying, fantastic report. Uh great report card. Thank you very much for the work on this. Uh it's exceptional. And I also want to note uh that the glow of excitement from councelor Elgar's block on the Hollywood squares here. I could just tell how excited he was about this report. So I think the word excellent came up like 15 times. Um anyway, a couple quick questions. Storm cost you indicated was $18.35 million of uh of public trees. Do we have any sense of what the private tree losses look like? I know we can't necessarily attribute a dollar value to that, but do we have any sense of the numbers of private trees lost in that same period? Um through you, Mayor Burton, this study was under I3 street package. We have done that just for street trees divided in three bands and just for street trees. uh unfortunately we don't have any number for private trees and looking into it it's not a guesswork that I it's not fair for you that I do a guess work >> so I guess the I guess the uh the technology wouldn't give you enough uh finite detail to be able to to determine that >> uh through you mayor Burton uh no this is again based on a street tree inventory this is not based on we need to have an inventory of the size and VCs uh to be able to run this analysis. We can't have an inventory from private. >> Understood. >> Okay. >> Um in the highlights in the actual report itself, it talked about tree mortality rate of 3.8%. How is that calculated? Does that take into account EAB removals? Does it take into account the storm casualties, that sort of thing? Or is it strictly ecological death of a tree? So you may have written all of those factors that led to past disease everything that has happened through the between the two inventory 372 plots what they collected when they went back and collected again whatever is missed is considered uh the fatality. >> Okay. So 3.8% % and how does that uh where does that rate in the uh hierarchy of success rates or or or health rates in terms of uh comparator um communities or comparator areas >> to you mayor Burton? >> Excellent. >> That's what I thought. That looked like a really low number. So, thank you for that. Um I also noticed that there is a reference to uh we moved from 146 to 162 species. Um, is that an accounting error or is that an actual is that an actual uh like actual growth in the number of species uh in the community >> through you may you this is this is actual numbers. >> That's real. That's wild. >> Yes. Yeah. >> How does that happen? Just just migration of of of seeds and or or intentionality around planting. No, starting uh in 2016 we changed actually uh our um species specific uh specification. Let's say now we are altering every two species with another species. We're we're avoiding the monoculture and that practice over the years keep increasing and we actually enlarge the list of our existing available inv native species that is adaptable to this environment to a the list used to be 83. Now the list is 185. used to be 83 >> 83 species we did have in our contractors and everything in hand to go plant and that list is now 100 185. >> Okay. So the next question is kind of a nerd question I think. How do you measure carbon sequestration in a tree? How is that actually measured? How do you determine that? to you mayor Burton this software I am not able to know the detail about how but knowing that carbon sequestration is a reflection of photosynthesis leaf area amounts of every three is a measure but the proportion of converting the leaf area to carbon sequestration is a model that developed by United States department of agriculture forestry section and it inherited there people who know how to convert leaf area to that they can develop the software themselves. >> Yeah, >> that's fascinating. My last question is with respect to go forward. So you you're uh in the report it talks about iTree relying on Google mapping. So what does the future hold like is it would be a a made inhouse solution using the lidar and those other what should you call what we refer to uh continuous land classification. Is this we do do we move to a in-house solution or is there another piece of software another program that we're going to use >> through you mayor Burton? No. Uh everything specific not everyone contracted they do have vendor they do have it requires multisspectral images that we purchased and it requires LAR that we purchased by purchasing both of them having a qualified consultant to do the analysis. these are the tool uh then uh we actually are able with $9,000 to do that every year. So this is the ability. However, forestry does have a very skilled knowledgeable forestry information analyst can help us actually uh to do that in a couple of years. We do have the basic the training have been provided the image is in the hand of forestry information analyst that was a part of the deliverable by contractor. we by knowledge base we are capable of providing that in a couple of years ourselves. >> That's amazing. Thank you so much for again for the report and for this great report card. >> Thank you. >> Thank you councelor. Counselor Shia. >> Thank you Mr. Mayor. Uh thank you for presentation. So this is a great report although it's very few words regarding our north Oakville. So I find there's uh there's uh interesting numbers. So for our for uh for our the canobi is decreased from 27.6% in 2018 to 26% in 2024. I believe this is the decreasing because of development right >> uh to you uh mayor Burton as I explained they're not comparable with 2018 was the base was Google view the Google view is a mosaic of pixels that some of them in 2024 that we re rerun the analysis was leaf on and leaf off and the method was point sample plot not continuous land classification. Anytime that you drop a thousand point it goes down and if they miss canopy they hit from the branches leave off to the ground and that considers non-cannopy. So it means that there are different methods each method brings their own numbers and those are not comparable. So we cannot compare 2018 with 2024. What we can compare is 2015 that we do have land continuous land classification which covers all the pixels everything not dots it's not sample it's everything and use satellite image in that analysis north and south we did have two tw it was south sorry my apology it was north was not even developed 25.5% and now is 29%. Those are comparable numbers. You cannot compare something that have been done under satellite image with Google view. Those are not comparable. >> Okay, understand. So that's uh not comparable. No. >> So my following question is as development continue in North Oakville, how can we prevent our tree canobi cabbage from dextraing further and further? uh through you mayor Burton. I think development in North Oakville is a part of the plan that council uh actually approved and that is going to happen along with the council approval that the urbanization in Oakville followed that you know it's not deviating from that within that understanding that North Oakville is a transition of urbanization we should do our best to invest on town property to improve our canopy guideline and canopy plan by what we have done reducing the spacing and trying to keep the trees healthier. Now for north we do have three years rotational cycle for tree pruning. For south we do have nine years with everything that we're doing and as I mentioned including the majority of woodland and natural heritage system assumed north in the woodland regeneration program that currently in 2016 80% of our effort goes to north because of that differences of canopy cover to bring north with south together. So with all that efforts I we're hoping that we're achieving 40% canopy cover for north as well by 207. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you councelor councelor Lchina. >> Good evening Jalil. Thank you very much for the presentation. Uh what stuck out to me was the major forest pest threats and uh looking at that um slide, the spotted lantern fly. And when I look that up, um they don't kill trees, but they weaken the trees. And apparently they love sugar maple or maples and oaks. And so when a few slides earlier, the top three species of uh by leaf area are sugar maples, red oaks, and silver maples. So you know, here we are. We're talking about tree canopy and these are the top three trees that provide that canopy and the spotted lantern fly loves them. Can you tell us a little bit more about what the town's doing about that? >> Through you, Mayor Burton. Uh luckily we don't have that. Uh so it's uh even though it moved from >> you just made my my evening. Yeah, >> that's great. >> We don't have that on there but >> but we did include that in our uh forest health survey. So it's actively we are looking at trees and looking to find ALHV and lanternly. Yeah, it's >> okay. So, so you you're checking uh around different municipalities in our area just to make sure that it's I mean, how far does this thing fly? >> Uh through you, Mayor Burton. We're not checking other municipality. We are definitely have a open communication with them. If they're doing or not, I'm not aware, but we are looking in the town of Oakville. uh for instance if there is any suspicious species either Asian longhorn beetle we contact uh and CFIA and for Asian longhorn beetle and they come and they inspect to ensure that we don't have it or we have it luckily we don't have spotted landerfly and we don't have Asian long orbital >> and thank you so much >> all right uh thank you counselor has a Julio, thanks for hanging in there and thanks for always being a phone call away when the chainsaws have been pulled out somewhere in the neighborhood. But I'm very proud that Ward 3 has the highest tree canopy. Um, so the competition is on. It's in the book and you all said it was an excellent report. So we know it's factually correct. Um, my my only additional question because my council colleagues covered it all is silver cells. So W 3 doesn't generally get a new subdivision, but we have a new subdivision now. And one of the worries is will the tree canopy ever come back after the loss of all the trees. Are they required to use silver cells, which is what we used in downtown uh uh in their planting and and or is it something we should be encouraging? I can share through you mayor Burton. I can share with you my experience. However, if I had staff from planning and development also they could have pro provide you a good response. Um so the main goal is providing minimum soil volume like north 30 cubic meters if not to encourage having silver cell. Uh we are trying to achieve that in north Oakville. We have several areas that we have silver cell. South Oakville also in many u subdivision as far as I know like old granty and a few other we do have silver cell. Uh the ability requires uh the fact that if the subdivision does not include does include public land uh properties and public roads not lane. So and all of that mechanism might limit us to enforce silver cell but wherever possible we encourage that when you use that in uh in public property and example is uh the the town square that all of the trees are being planted are on silverel and we do have examples and different subdivision as well and we don't have a definite answer that whether how much we can go to encourage that, but we are looking into it. >> Thanks very very much. >> Uh, councelor Chisum. >> Thank you, worship. If there's no more um speakers, I'd like to move this uh report. >> Thank you. Uh can I get a second? Councelor Duck. Thank you. Any objection? There being no objection, that is adopted. Thank you, everybody. 5.3 Oakville Galleries Update. And we have 30 minutes left, kids. Just govern yourself accordingly. Um, uh, do you have any questions on the report, council? Do you have a motion? Councelor Adams? >> Is there a seconder? Councelor Grant. Thank you. Um, councelor has the deal. You want the floor >> through you, Mayor Burton. I circulated earlier today um a revision to recommendation one. It is uh a revision that the commissioner uh I believe can speak to as endorsing. Uh we have um there is an opportunity now to ensure that uh there is a further conversation about the scope uh of the feasibility study. Um and uh an understanding the the bigger vision for Oakville Galleries. Um and Oakville Galleries would appreciate having the opportunity to have those detailed discussions. And so, uh, I would ask that rather than the original recommendation that the recommendation that was circulated this afternoon, uh, be, uh, be considered, which, um, >> so, councelor, you're moving an amendment to change, uh, item number one to, uh, your, uh, wording, right? >> Correct. >> And you need a seconder. >> Councelor Giddings is providing you with your second. Uh uh council, do you want to hear from the commissioner or would you like to vote on this? I will put the vote given the hour. Is there any objection to the amendment? There being no objection, the amendment carries. Uh may I put the main motion? Is there any objection to the main motion? There being no objection to the main motion, that is carried, counselor. Thank you. >> Or was that easier than you thought? Some nights you have to work harder than others. >> All right. 5.4. The Oakville MDC AGM, appointment of auditors, directors, approval of financial statements. And uh we have a presentation from Mark Maner of the Oakville MDC. Mr. Maner, thank you for your patience and your endurance. Uh and the floor is yours. >> Thank you. Um, I will I will try to uh condense this from what I was originally going to do given the given the late hour. Um, but I would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak to you tonight about the uh activities of the Oakville MDC since our last annual meeting. Most of what I will uh speak to tonight is in the annual report uh to the shareholder, but there's a few things I'd like to speak about directly. Um firstly moving to slide two as I do every year. I'd like to start by saying why did you create the Oakville MDC and what is it that we do? Um just to remind you and that's more top of mind tonight I think than maybe at other other occasions. Uh the primary purpose of the Oakville MDC is to maximize the value of the town's surplus real estate. And I mean maximize in terms of both financial return to the town but also community benefits to the residents of Oakville from these surplus lands. Oakville MDC looks to establish long-term relationships through uh joint ventures and limited partnerships which will generate an income stream to the town. Uh moving to slide three. As the master developer, the Oakville Municipal Development Corporation will participate in the development through its entire lifetime and provide continuing oversight to the project on behalf of the town to make sure that the objectives of the town are always met. Um, an important advantage of the MDC, which you're well aware of, is the clear separation between the responsibilities of the corporation and this council. uh council in his role as the approval authority of a development and the municipal corporation as the master developer for the project. Um I'd like to move to slide four and if I'm talking quickly it's I apologize. Um the Oakville MTC is comprised of both community and municipal representatives. Uh so you have both public and municipal representation on this board which brings a good balance of opinion uh to the board and make sure that the uh um balance is is appropriate. You're very well served by this group of capable and committed individuals. They do serve for a three-year term and that three-year term will expire at the end of the general annual general meeting next year. Uh, I'd like to speak specifically now to the uh board's activities this past year and into the year ahead. As you know, there are four um near-term priority projects that we're working on as set out in the Oakville MDC business plan, the former public works site, the 125 Randall Street property, the former Oakville Trafalgar Hospital and High School Lands, and parking lot number eight. uh beginning first with the former um public works site and moving to slide five. The current realities of the real estate market have hit. And what I mean by this is that there's no secret that the bottom has fallen out of the real estate market for highdensity land. It extremely flat right now. And land values have declined in some cases in the GTA between four 40 and 50% for high for high density properties since its peak in 2021. And this is due to high construction costs, high interest rates and declining demand. And if we move to slide six, what this means that developers are reducing their offer prices and the pre and this pressure is expected to continue in the short term. Um the advice the board has received from our broker Kushman and Wakefield is that we should not move forward with the site until the market has an opportunity to recover. This is not the time to be taking the former public works site to the market since uh we are convinced that offers that we might uh receive will in no way reflect the true market value that can be realized uh if we otherwise wait for a healthier market to return. Um this temporary pause will continue and as I show on slide 7 uh a rebound is expected in 20 uh 27 and 28 as as demand returns. It's really a a wait and see scenario. Um, one benefit of this uh, pause will be that the results of the town's uptown core study review should be known uh, by the end of this year or early next year. And this will help us to uh, um, make any amendments that might be necessary to the master plan if there are new policy recommendations coming forward in terms of uh, unit mix and building heights as well as densities. Um the uh um advantage obviously is uh with um the um the new information we'll be able to uh get ahead of it rather than responding to it. Uh although we all want to move forward with the site uh we believe the responsible approach is to hold it in advance for now and to only go forward when the market says it's time to do so. Looking at slide eight. Um, as you recall, town council in December 2024 indicated its preferred development scenario for the 125 Randall Street property, which would see the construction of a residential building with the first two floors of approximately 20,000 square ft of non-residentidential space being reserved and owned by the town as cultural and community space with consideration being given to a building not exceeding 17 stories in height. With this direction from council, the Oakville MDC issued an RFP in 2025 to deliver this redevelopment project. And the board identified a preferred development uh consortium in February 2026, which is the subject of the item you have on your agenda today in item number six. The Oakville MDC is currently negotiating negotiating an me memorandum of understanding with a successful developer as indicated on slide nine. We'll be embodying all the major business terms of the arrangement agreed upon by the parties. This will be followed thereafter by a joint venture agreement. And I would also like to note that the first revenue installment from this property and this joint venture will be received later uh this year with a second structure payment due in early 2027. I can uh tell you and assure you that the site plan, planning applications, zoning amendment, and OP amendment will be brought to council uh to within the next few months, ensuring council's oversight and approval of the final design and project and scope of this project. Uh slide 10 speaks to the o former Oakfilter Foger Hospital uh and high school site which has already had much good discussion. So I only highlight one important point. Uh as we show on slide 11, we have undertaken two studies at the Oakville MDC and and uh they clearly indicate that there inde is indeed a market for a senior's facility on this site and that it can be made financially viable with this new direction that you've given to staff tonight. Uh we're going to go away and demonstrate how we can make this happen. Parking lot 8 is our newest project and is discussed on slide 12. This has been identified as by the town as a pilot project for investigating opportunities to secure additional parking in the downtown area by significantly increasing the number of surface parking uh spaces through an underground parking structure of some kind. Ultimately, the Oakville MDC will be looking for a joint venture partnership here as well to maintain control over the delivery of any project. Um, as shown on slide 13, market sounding and soundings and discussions with developers have taken place over the course of the last several months to determine developer interest in and the viability of the project. These discussions and feedback from developers have shown that constructing additional parking spaces will come at a very significant cost which may not be financially feasible under current zoning. Uh moving to slide 14. As you can see the cost of underground parking is significant and surface parking although less so is still very expensive. So that's the bad news. The good news is having said all this, the developers have shown real interest through these informal discussions and market soundings. And as such, as indicated on slide 15, we do intend to issue an e expression of interest in 2026 to measure formal developer interest in this uh project and to garner a more precise exchange of information to determine what developers believe will be necessary to make this project financially feasible. Um this will help to inform us obviously of whether or not the project uh is uh um doable and it will also uh allow us to formulate recommendations to go back to this council uh in uh in terms of moving this pilot project forward. Um on slide 16, I will uh tell you that the board has overseen the preparation of a new business plan for the 2025 2028 planning horizon. And at all the co and although the costs associated with the individual work plans, particularly the project costs have increased year-over-year. No surprise, the total profit and the residual land values forecasted for the uh near-term priority projects remain relatively stable and strong, albeit not as strong as was the case in the height of the market in 2021 and 2022. And the board remains confident that these sites will continue to be very desirable and will continue to attract strong developer interest given their specific locations and the positive individual attributes of each site. Finally, the last slide, hooray, you're saying speaks to the business purpose of this annual general meeting and the resolutions contained in commissioner's report which we would ask that you confirm. And with that, I thank you for your time. >> Thank you, uh, Mr. Maner. Councelor Romero has a question. >> Uh, thank you, Mr. Maner. And I know it's been a long night here. Um, I I seem to recall the last time you were here, you said you would have positive news for us on cash flow issues, on on sales, on on financing. Can can you let me know what the cash flow is in terms of of net income from the MDC uh since we've started it? Uh do we have that number in terms of what what MDC has generated in terms of of profitability for for the town? the I mean to date there has been no the only um profitability for the Oakville MDC has been the transfer of lands to the uh um corporation from from the town. Um there has been no revenue generated to date but there will be revenue generated this year. >> So can you tell me what the the overall expenses have been since the MDC has been incorporated and started? Do you do you have that number available? Uh let's see. The first uh the first infusion first and second infusion is probably around $3 million thus far. >> Three. >> So we're 3 million. So we're $3 million in Sorry. How many years have we been going for? I apologize. >> Eight years. Eight years. Yes. >> So we've spent $3 million in eight years with no revenue as of yet. >> That's correct. So I guess my my my question is what kind of a corporation would would would um acquies to that sort of a of a line item. >> Um the Municipal Development Corporation I would say um we uh have had to position ourselves and get sites ready uh for market to to actually generate profit. Um, and that's beginning this year. >> So, when can we expect any sort of a revenue coming back to us? Like, is there a an actual timeline where we get to see some kind of revenue coming back for the investment that the town's put in? >> Yes. The uh um first payment of revenue will be received in uh 2026 following execution of anou and a second structured payment will be uh provided in uh 2027 with the signing of the joint venture agreement. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, councelor. Councelor Grant, sorry. >> Thank you. Um I I've never been so happy to not make money. You certainly listen to Kushman Wakefield on the properties at the old works plans, please. >> Yeah. Well, the market I mean the market I mean is impacting >> obviously every every site that the town owns and the Oakville MDC owns. >> But beyond the financial considerations, the great thing about having the MDC, pardon me, late night, um is that we at least can make these projects ourselves. We direct the development. We don't listen to the whims of another developer. or we can do them right. >> Right. >> And that's what we're trying to do here. >> If council gives the direction, the Oakville MDC acts on that direction completely. >> Great. I'll give a motion when the time's right. >> Thank you, uh, Councelor Grant. U, your motion's in order. Can I have a second? Councelor Adams. Thank you. Councelor has the deal. You have the floor. >> Thank you through you, Mayor Burton. Um, Mr. Mr. Maner, can um uh you might recall last uh time you were with us, I had some curiosity about the parking lot 8 >> and um so um I really do appreciate the report and that the fact that we note that not only do we have to make up for the sort of the land parking we already have, but we need to do better. Have you been apprised of the work that's being done by town staff on possible uh another possible parking garage? >> I don't think so. >> In addition to the the one that you're currently I'm not aware >> uh through you, Mayor Burton. uh this no that has not been part of the MDC's requirement because it's looking at uh a parking garage uh in part to support the library that's there and then add some additional parking on top of it. So the reason to involve the MDC in it um uh who gets involved with there's a joint venture is just not available on that particular option. >> Okay. But there is uh another project that could potentially uh grow our parking supply in downtown >> and that's true you may Burton that study is the other downtown parking study you're quite correct which is building off a lot of the work that uh the uh MDC is doing because really lot eight is a bit of a pilot project that understands what could be the potential. Okay. All right. Um, thank you very much, sir. >> Thank you, councelor Hazard deal. Um, uh, you know, it was was coun at council's direction. Let's try to remember. Um, is there any objection to the motion? Madam, Mr. Clerk, there is no councelor objects. Uh, it's close, council, but it carries. Uh the uh now we also have item 6.1 and uh there's a and u let's see the commissioner of corporate services Cheryl erys is available and if if council requires it I have the motions ready to go into close session u and if if uh if we can't uh pass this in the open. Uh now I believe that we're going to have to first consider a motion to extend the hour. Councelor Giddings, >> I'm happy to recommend the st uh to move the staff recommendation. Mr. Mayor, >> thank you. Councelor Giddings, is there a seconder? Councelor Adams. Any objection? Councelor Hesllett deal and councelor Giddings. >> Sorry, Mayor Burton. I have a question. >> Councelor Giddings, you were first. Uh, now you're gone. Councelor's deal. >> Um, thank you very much for the report and uh and the details and the comparative analysis you did. My my one question is around the the design. So uh we see two different options uh which is only one component of obviously what why you would have u made the recommendation was uh their consideration of the location that of this site um uh is while it's not in the heritage district it is um >> on the border of a of of a heritage district. Was that consideration part of the evaluation? Yes, it was um and it was uh um one of the reasons that the cladding on the uh um first two floors of the buildings is the way it is was to try to reflect a heritage element. >> Okay. And so do you in these projects have access to our heritage uh staff to to take a look at the materials? >> Oh yes. Yes. And and actually the design I mean the design will have to be approved by town staff um and then ultimately council. So there will be um that kind of back and forth and consultation over the course of the next several months. >> Thank you for that additional clarification, Mark. >> All right. Um is there any objection to the motion? Mr. Clerk, there being none, that's carried. uh council, unless I make a mistake, I think we've reached >> bylaws >> the bylaws and uh so we need a motion to consider and approve uh let's see, Mr. Clerk, are all of these bylaws uh for us tonight or did we? >> Y >> All right. The bylaws as listed 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3. We need a motion to consider and read and pass. And look at all the volunteers. Um, who hasn't been on the ag the minutes yet? Councelor Lchenna, councelor Shia. Thank you. Is there any objection? Mr. Clerk, there being no objection. The bylaws are considered read and passed and we finished on uh just just in the nick of time. Uh that completes the work of the meeting. It's been terrific working with you and I look forward to the next opportunity. Councelor Hlett deal. >> Mayor Burton. Last night I didn't get a chance to ask about uh the planning and devel it's under staff memorandum. We were um and it's the growth allocation study. Can I just ask tonight >> counselor? It's not really in order and uh you're going to need a motion to proceed past the hour unless there's a quick question. So my quick question is I I would ask that staff consider that there be uh it be put on the formal agenda to take us through uh the growth allocation study and the implications of it and I'd ask that you just consider that counselor I can undertake to do that on behalf of council. You're very welcome. So, as I started to say, we're done. Good night. See you again.