Check one, two. Check one. Karen, it looks like we're live, so I'll turn it over to you to go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Uh members of the public are advised that individuals and the media may be audibly and/or visually recording this meeting. I would like to call this meeting of the heritage permit review subcommittee May 19th, 2026 to order. And please note that quorum is present. Uh committee, you have before you the agenda for this meeting. May I have a motion to approve the agenda as presented? See Graham and Steve. Okay. Is there anyone opposed? Okay. Um and also Carol again um if you um since I can't see you on the camera, if you can raise your hand, if you have um you need some attention, just do it that way. That would work out fine. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Thanks. Um All right. So, uh, seeing no one opposed, that motion is carried. Are there any declarations of interest today? Okay. I see no declarations interest. Um, now you have before you the approval of the minutes of the previous meeting, HPRC 26004, April 2026. May I have a motion to approve the minutes as presented? See Andy and I see Graham. Thank you. And is there anyone opposed? See none. That motion is carried. And onto the heritage permit applications for this evening, which is found under section six of your agenda. So the first permit we have this evening is for uh HP 202616 pertaining to 19 Mil Street South in Flamborough which is part of the Mil Street Heritage Conservation District. So part five property um and the application is for repairs to the public facing facades of the property including stucco repairs and infill of holes in the stucco and repair and replacement of fascia boards where necessary. Uh, do we have the applicant or representative the applicant here to speak to the application? >> Hi Karen, I'll be speaking to the application. >> Uh, is that uh is that Lisa? >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. Sorry. Okay. Um, great. Um, so Lisa, is there anything you'd like to add to what we already covered? >> Uh, nope. This is So this application is a result of a property standards bylaw uh property standards order um for repairs to the property. There's a number of items on the order, but this is the only one that does require a heritage permit. Um, so we're just looking to have the contractor confirm how they're doing stuckco repairs and the replacement of those fasia boards where necessary. >> Okay. >> Happy to answer any questions. >> Thank you. Yeah. Are there any questions from the committee for Lisa? >> Uh, go ahead, Graeme. >> Yeah, from the pictures I couldn't see the holes in the stucco you were talking about or the bad stuckco. Is it really obvious or is it just minor stuff that you want to get in front of? >> Uh, it's it's more minor in nature. There's a few um holes that are probably like an inch or two in size. Um, so they might not show up in the photos, but there are a few of them scattered around the the property. Um, I can try and draw attention to them. Um, if I share my screen, let me just give me one moment. Uh, so it's some of the the holes like this one here, um, if you're seeing my screen. >> Mhm. >> And then there's one further up. Oops. Over here. And I believe there's a couple others. There's another here. And then there's the cracking at the base of the building. Um, so really just looking to make sure that those are shored up and then um addressing those concerns. >> Okay. I'm assuming the hole in the roof's been repaired since this picture's been taken. >> Uh, yes. That is work that doesn't require a heritage permit. So, we've asked them to do that um as soon as possible. So, the contractor should already have been on site doing that. And if not, they'll be doing it as soon as possible. >> Okay. Thank you. And uh yesterday I got contacted by Devon and Thompson. He sent me an image of this house that was taken either by himself or someone he knows recently and glass has been broken in that gable window. >> Okay. >> So, that's going to have to get uh sealed up as well. >> Sure. I can flag that for the property standards um officer and they can add that to the um list of items that the contractor will be on site completing. >> Okay. Do you want me to forward you that picture? >> Uh sure. That would be great. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Graeme. Uh, are there any further questions from the committee? Andy, please go ahead. >> Yeah, through the chair. Um, this building has been flagged for quite some time. Uh, and even to the point of uh, our committee, the what I don't know, Mr. Paris Committee had contacted the owner back in 2013 and asked what his uh um idea of what he wanted to do with the property. Uh the property was uh um or the building was in really rough shape um just recently. Uh in other words, the hole in the roof as Graeme was indicating that there was a massive hole in the roof and then they tarped it over. Every window was smashed out. Um uh so um at the time, this is going back to 2013, they they didn't want to do much with the building uh and said that the chances are they might redevelop the property at some point. This is uh going back over 10 years now. Um so now what's happened is that the smash out windows they've replaced with plywood. Uh the plywood has been um painted black and the roof has a new roof has been put on. A new uh roof is uh covering the hole. Um so I'm just curious and this is more a question towards staff. Um, is there any um idea of what Atri uh um transportation um uh you know school busing owns the property? Um of what they intend to do with the building cuz at one point they were considering tearing it down and it was in such bad um uh condition it was almost going to fall down. And uh they have done some movement to uh um you know correct uh the leaking roof and the smashed out windows because at one point there was glass all over the sidewalk. Um and that has been cleaned up and the plywood that they put over the windows is now painted black. Uh this is a property which is very prominent when you enter uh Mil Street uh um heritage district because it's coming up Mil Street South. Um, and just as you enter town, um, it's right on the sidewalk. It's, uh, um, so is there any thought of what's happening with the building or are they just sealing it up? Because now I understand that they're asking to fix the the Sucko and what have you, and they fix the roof and they've got black painted plywood over the windows. So, I'm just curious on has there been any um discussion on what what's going to happen with the windows and with the building in general. >> Yeah, thanks Andy. So, Alyssa Golden, cultural heritage program lead. Uh to date, we do not have any planning act applications or any other sort of proposals for the site related to this building. Um, and to clarify, uh, as Lisa just spoke to, um, this is in relation to a property standards order, uh, required to maintain the building as per our property standards bylaw. Um, this work is being coordinated by our municipal law enforcement officers and the city. So, it is not being coordinated by the owner. >> Oh, thank uh, thank you, Alyssa. So, um, okay. So, is property standards okay, which is fixing the roof and having boarded up painted windows in an entrance of a heritage district um within the city because they are cleaning it up a bit, but they're certainly um not fixing it up, putting in windows, uh doing anything with it. It's almost like sealing it up. But, uh, is that going to be okay with property standards, um, or okay with Heritage being an uh, heritage district? >> To the chair. >> Uh, great great followup question, Andy. So, through the chair, um, what we are able to do as a city is in relation to our property standards bylaw. So, the boarding up of this vacant building, um, painting the hoarding black, those are specific provisions within the property standards bylaw for vacant designated heritage buildings. Um, so we only have the provisions of that bylaw in terms of the interventions that we are doing. They're only being done now by city staff because the owner has not acted on um the order for the work to take place. So now city is actioning that work. So that's really the the scope of our ability as a city in terms of ensuring that the property is sound um the in terms of being um safe from trespass or breaking and entering uh and that it's meeting all of the property standards bylaw requirements in terms of maintenance. >> Okay. Thank you Alyssa. So, um, my last point would be, um, within the Heritage District, um, any kind of work is all to do with streetscape and how it's going to look, uh, in the neighborhood, how a building looks in the neighborhood. So, now you've have, uh, an abandoned building. Basically, it hasn't had anything in it for over a decade. Um, and now they fixed the roof and they've put plywood over it and painted it black, which might be okay with bylaw. Um but is that okay with uh Heritage um regarding having a building like that that could be like that for decades um because nothing has happened probably in the last 12 years on that building through the chair. >> Yeah, thanks Andy. So to clarify there in the property standards bylaw there are general provisions for all properties regardless of heritage status and then there are additional provisions for designated heritage properties like this one in the in the Mil Street heritage district. that requirement to paint the hoarding black is a heritage specific requirement that speaks exactly to what you're getting at in terms of um the optics of these buildings. So the goal of painting the hoarding black is to have it read as though it's a window uh to try to improve the aesthetics and also make it seem like it's more cared for. Um so those are specific provisions for designated heritage properties that were developed in consultation with heritage staff when the property standards bylaw was updated at the time. Okay. Thank you. And and one last point uh to the chair is is there any timeline that um these small um improvements, if you want to call it that, I'll use that lightly, but uh um can stay in place or it could it be another decade that this building is just boarded up on the the main street as you enter the heritage district in Watertown? Thanks Andy. Through the chair. So with this being a vacant heritage building, it is now monitored regularly by municipal um municipal law enforcement staff. Um so the this current order that's being actioned is a result of the proactive monitoring of the building. So municipal law enforcement staff will continue to do that as per the vacant building registry requirements. I believe it's quarterly that they attend sites. So if any um new trespass or new issues are identified through those subsequent proactive visits then then there might be subsequent orders to deal with those. >> Okay. Uh thank you. That's all I have. Thanks Louis. >> Thanks Andy. Yeah I I uh understand your concern. I think honestly there's the same kind of issue in a building in Dundas as well which is designated and which is vacant and we have no idea what's going to happen to it, right? And it's all the windows are broken. Alyssa, we may want to look at that as well for painting those windows black on Two Hot Street. I know. Sorry, off topic. It's back onto the agenda. My apologies. Um, okay. So, may we see the proposed conditions, please, Lisa or Kira? So the two standard conditions at the bottom and then the uh uh specific conditions for this that the final details of the proposed repairs to the phase should be submitted and uh for satisfaction approval prior to commencement and that the proposed masonry restoration work conforms to the city's masonry restoration guidelines and the final details and specs be submitted uh prior to commencement. So H um may I have a mover and a seconder to recommend approval of heritage permit 202616 uh subject to these staff recommended conditions? Moving a secondary. I see Graham and I see Steve and uh is there anyone opposed? Okay, seeing none, that motion is carried. Thank you. Okay. On to uh secondary second uh application for this evening. HP 202614 uh pertaining to 120 Slair Avenue in Hamilton, which is part of the St. Clair Avenue Heritage Conservation District. So part five property and the application is for masonry repairs along the primary facade on the east elevation and south elevation including repointing with lime mortar tinted to match the original construction reconstruction of the stair wing walls and replacement of approximately 15 bricks with new clay pressed bricks where necessary. Uh is the applicant or the owner here to speak to the application? Yes. >> Is going off mute. Um yes, I'm here. Elizabeth Nami. >> Okay, great. Thank you for joining us. So, um if you have anything, you know, a few minutes to uh you have a few minutes to speak to anything further that you'd like to explain to the committee before we go on to deliberation and some questions. >> Um no, I I feel like you covered it. It's it's pretty simple work. >> Yeah. and and the committee has seen uh the photograph so I believe um they have a good idea of what the proposal is. So yes >> um committee do you have any questions or uh clarifications for Elizabeth please? Okay, this is uh unusual. Usually they have something. Okay, that being said, then maybe we see the proposed conditions for uh this application. Okay, so uh the two standard conditions and completion by May 31st, 2028, so two years from today. and um that the proposed masonry restoration work conforms to the city's ma masonry restoration guidelines and the final details and specs be submitted prior to commencement of the alterations. So, um may I have a mover and a seconder to recommend approval of heritage permit uh 202614 subject to these staff recommended conditions? see Graham and I second her. Thank you, Steve. Okay. And is there anyone opposed? Seeing none, that application or that uh motion is carried. Okay. Okay. So, Elizabeth, thank you for coming in. I know it was brief. I really appreciate it. Um, I know there's a lot of people who who um come in to see us and we really appreciate that you take the time to actually check with Heritage before you do make changes on these. So, thank you so much and >> my pleasure. I'm sure we'll see each other again soon. >> Absolutely. We will be here for you and staff will follow up with you on next steps. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. Okay. application uh item 6.3 on the agenda HP 202615. So this is uh 1280 Main Street West Hamilton which is McMaster University. So, it's a part four property and um this application is for various renovations to the interior of Alumni Hall, including refinishing of interior wood elements, including the coffered ceiling panels, parket floors, wood paneling, abudding the fireplace, and interior surfaces of doors and surround trim, which may include sanding, staining, and or sealing the wood, cleaning, and painting of the existing plaster walls and removal of the existing valances and draperies, including any of the associated minor plaster repairs. Uh, also various renovations to the exterior of Alumni Hall, including replacement of existing wood guard rail with new engineered aluminum and glass guardrail system, replacement of existing seconds story window assembly at office 203 with a new system similar to past replacements in material and pattern, and repair of brick veneer damage from redundant service equipment anchorage. And please note that this uh property did receive conditional approval from the Hamilton uh heritage permit review committee for heritage permit which included a similar scope of work in 2023 under heritage permit HP 2023 023 and that was approved in July 2023 and it has expired as of July 2025. So that's why uh they're back again. So, do we have a owner? Well, the applicant here representative to speak to the application. >> Uh, yes, that would be myself, Ed Shook. >> Okay. Welcome, Ed. Thank you for joining us. Um, is there anything further that you'd like to add to the description of the proposal? >> Uh, one item that, uh, I think I caught uh, as you were saying at the beginning there, uh, the Coffford ceiling. Um, they're not they're not doing any work on that this time around. They decided not to forego any of the work on the wood surfaces uh which is a majority of the work inside the home. Um they're going to limit doing to the painting of the uh the plaster. Um the redoing of the u the parket floor and addressing a couple of doors at the I believe it's the south end of the building or the room rather. Um much like it was in the the previous scope. >> Okay. Okay. And will there be is there still work a proposed work on the paneling abing the fireplace? >> No. >> No. So that's removed as well. >> Just plaster. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And the park >> it's a little reduced. It's the parking floor is in. Yeah. They're going to they're going to work on that. Yes. >> Okay. Okay. That's in. Okay. All right. So, um just to be clear, I'll read this out again just to make sure that I haven't uh taken out too much. So, it would be refinishing of interior wood elements um such as the parkquet floors and interior surfaces of doors and surround trim which may include sanding, staining and or sealing the wood. Does that sound appropriate? Okay, great. >> Okay. Um uh do we have any questions from the committee for Ed? >> Uh please go ahead Graeme. On your previous uh conditional permit, was any of the work that was scoped out done? >> Uh no. No. Due to budgetary constraints, they uh they shelf the whole project. >> Okay. And the I was going to just going to confirm. It doesn't look like it to me, but the handrail you're replacing is a modern handrail. Correct. >> The handrail that we're replacing is an old wooden handrail. Replacing with a modern system. Yes. >> Yeah. So, I mean, it's not like it's a 1920s30s handrail. It's more like a mid-50s60s. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's not pressure treated. You It's kind of a do it yourself you'd see on your your tech at home. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to confirm that before we approve taking it out if it was new or old. Thank you. >> Okay. Um, do we have any other questions, clarifications? >> All right. Um, okay. May we see the proposed conditions, please? Thanks, Cara. So the two standard conditions, the bottom two, and um the three specific conditions to this application, that the proposed stain be submitted to the satisfaction approval priority installation. The final details of the railing design be submitted and that the proposed masonry work conforms to the city's masonry restoration guidelines and final details and specs be submitted prior to commencement. So okay. Um, may I have a mover and a seconder to recommend approval of heritage permit 202615? I see Carol and I see Sandra. Great. Thank you. And is there anyone opposed? Okay, see none, that motion is carried. Okay, Ed, thank you. Um, appreciate you coming in. I hope uh we get it finished this time around. >> Yeah. Okay. And staff will follow up with you on any next steps. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. >> Have a good evening. >> Okay. Um application uh item 6.4 on the agenda. Uh, application HP 20226013 is 64 Hat Street in Dundas, otherwise known as the Gart Shore building, which is a part four property recently designated. And um this is a a lot of um work they have planned and I will read it out to you because it's u restoration of 24 fixed wood windows including reglazing using linseed oil glazing compounds retaining original glass where possible replacing broken glass with heritage glass which matches the existing historical character and replacing mountains styles and rails to a match to match original profiles. Also restoration of 13 double hung wood windows including cleaning and reinstallation of original hardware, glazing windows using linseed oil putty and reinforcing sash joinery using waterproof glue and hardwood pegs. Uh third point, installation of new window sills, including installing custommilled sills made from Douglas fur to match existing historical character. uh stabilization, repair and refinishing of the exit exterior face of the primary entrance, including installing custom milled slats to match existing heritage profiles and replacing the rotted wooden slatted pro panels. And finally, various masonry repairs in various locations, including restoring and repointing brick along the primary facade and restoring and repointing the brick chimney located on the west elevation. So, um, uh, the committee has received, uh, background information, but is there an applicant or representative application here to speak to the application? >> Yeah, it's me, Graham McN from Tom's McN Design here in Hamilton. >> Okay, great. Thank you for joining us, Graham. Um, is there anything you would like to add, expand upon, um, what was covered already? >> I mean, I think that the the description is quite uh, detailed. I don't know how much I could add. Um, obviously the the contractor they've engaged is uh experienced and knowledgeable and uh you know knows what he's doing here. So I think anything he says I I I pale in comparison his knowledge is deeper than mine. So >> Okay. All right. Well um I will then open up to the committee if they have any questions and um address to you. Anybody have anything on their mind? Okay, I see none. Um I know this committee loves to see um you know when you're using >> I will if I could. Yes, please. >> It occurred to me I we were here not that long ago um doing facade improvements on this as well. And just circling back on the one element that was the coping on top of the limestone wall area. Um the owner has decided to go with stone up there. So score one for the heritage folks on that one. You've made some people happy. >> I thought I thought you guys might want to know. So, or you folks might want to know. So, >> thank you. I appreciate that. >> That really makes me happy because I was the one that was fighting for it. >> Yep. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Okay. All right then. Um, let's see. All right. Uh, if there's no questions then on this application, may we see the proposed conditions, please, Kira? Okay. So, um the two standard conditions and um that the proposed masonry work conform to the city's masonry restoration guidelines and the final details and specifications to be submitted to the satisfaction and approval of director of planning and chief planner prior to commencement of the application of the alterations. Um okay. So, may I have a mover and a seconder to um recommend approval of heritage permit 2026? Uh my apologies. Uh 013. Okay, I see Sandra and I see Carol. Okay, great. See, and is there anyone opposed? Okay. Seeing none, that motion is carried. Okay. So, um, thanks, Graham. Appreciate you coming in and, um, yeah, good luck continuing work on this building. It's really happy to see all these improvements coming. So, it's it's really great great news. >> Is doing a great job. So, thanks very much. >> Okay. Okay. So, and with that, we will move on to our last um application for this evening. >> I beg your pardon. >> Bigger pardon. >> Oh, somebody might have somebody might have two computers on. >> Two computers on. >> Yeah, we're going to try to talk. Let's see what happens. Let's see what happens. >> All right. causing a problem, I think. I think >> I've been on a while. >> Okay. Has anybody changed any settings lately? >> Through the chair, sir. Karen, Alyssa Golden here. >> Could we ask you to maybe turn your speaker down? It's causing >> Is he watching? >> I can't hear I can't hear anything on my end. >> Yeah, but are you watching the live stream at the same time you're watching this? >> No. No. I've just I got your WebEx open. That's it. >> It's really doubling back. >> Doubling back. >> Let me let me try my headphones and see if that solves it. Okay, let's see. How's that now? >> That's good. Okay. Can you hear us? Can you hear us, Charles? >> Can you hear me now? >> Yeah, we can hear you. Can you hear us >> there? Can you hear me? >> Yep, we can. Is that okay? You can't hear us? Can you hear us? >> I could hear you now. >> Yes, that's good. >> Yes, that's good. >> Okay, we'll see how this goes. All right, one application left. >> One application left. >> HP 2026, >> which is 7 John Street East in Flamborough, part of the Mil Street Heritage Conservation District, part five property. And so it is pertaining to demolition of the existing contemporary one-story detached garage and construction of a new 1 and a half story detached structure including ashvalt shingles color match the existing dwelling board and batten siding a solid wood door vinyl windows and doors white prepainted aluminum eaves trough vented sophet and fascia and a covered front porch and decorative gable trim and shutters. So, um, with that description, is there anything, uh, Charles that you would like to add to this before the, uh, committee begins deliberations? Uh, you may be on mute. >> Sorry, Karen. through the chair. Um, the echoing was still happening, so we had muted Charles while you were talking. Charles, I think you just need to unmute yourself now before you talk. If you are Charles, if you're looking at the meeting screen, um, at the bottom of WebEx, it should say mute, unmute, start video. That's where you'd find the the button to unmute yourself. >> Also, the space bar, you know, Okay. Do the standards Windows fix a reboot of sorts? through the chair Karen. Yes, it looks like Charles is just leaving and re-entering. So, if we just give him a minute if that's okay. >> Absolutely. >> Great pace tonight, by the way, Karen. >> Well, it's because everybody is coming prepared, having their questions. It's excellent >> that Garore one for a complex amount of work. It was beautifully documented. >> Yeah, great pres like Yeah, exactly. Didn't lead to a lot of questions because it's so well written and through the share. Yes. It's always great when you have all the specs of what materials are being used for the application as well. >> Can we can we hear me now? >> Oh, there we go. Wonderful. Thanks, Charles. >> Is the echo gone? Sorry. My apologies. >> Hey, I think it sounds great. >> Okay. So, Charles, um, do you have anything you would like to add to, uh, or expand on for the committee before they ask any questions they have? >> Uh, no. So, I was saying your your summary, it's very it really captures everything we're doing. Um, that along with the plans that uh were previously provided. Um, the only thing that we did provide that I'm not sure if the committee does have is a site plan that shows the new building relative to the existing building. Um, but we're I'm happy to share my screen uh if that's possible and you can see that. Um, conditions, we're fine with all those. So yeah, I'm really I'm really just happy to entertain any questions or or comments that the committee might have. >> Okay. Um I think it's he can share a screen, correct stuff? >> Yep, that's correct. He should be able to share. >> Yeah. >> Let's see how this goes. Okay. Any chance of sharing? >> Yeah, we can see that. >> Perfect. So, um, John Street would be to the bottom of the page. Uh, the existing dwelling being light gray there. Uh, the new proposed ADU, Bach ADU in the back, darker gray. And if you notice, there's a a faint dashed line that it's sitting over top of which depicts the existing structure there. So, our new building is essentially in the same spot and the same size as what's currently on the site. So, as far as impact from the road and neighbors, there should be little little to none. It'll it'll just look like a new refreshed uh structure in the yard at the back of the back of the property. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, all right. I guess then we could take questions from the committee. Um, is there anybody who has anything they'd like to ask? >> I go to say >> I know I don't live in the neighborhood, but this looks like to me a contemporary garage coming out with a newer old older looking building going back in. So really the view from the street is not even going to be impacted. I have no issues with this project at all. >> Thank you. Are there any other questions? Uh Andy, please go ahead. >> Yeah, through the chair. Um uh I sort of uh mimic Graham's um thoughts. It's sort of a building that uh uh that I don't know what the age of the garage is, but uh I don't think it'll uh affect the streetscape whatsoever. Um and it looks like it uh might the newer version might fit better um within the neighborhood than the existing. >> That's all I have right now. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Are there any other questions? I guess I just had um one question. Um in comparison to the current structure that's there. Is this significantly taller or is it about the same or >> not significantly taller? Maybe about uh 5T give or take taller and it's only in the roof structure. We're proposing a steeper roof u just so that they can accommodate a small loft area built into the roof. That's the extra half storage for the walls. The walls themselves are the same size as what's out there right now. >> Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions? I'm not seeing any. Um Okay. Um may we see the proposed conditions, please, Kira? Okay. So, the two standard conditions um with a 2-year um deadline for completion and the additional condition is that the final details of the windows and siding and roofing materials be submitted to the satisfaction and approval of the director of planning and chief planner prior to installation. >> Um, >> sorry, I'm I'm sorry. I have different conditions here than you have there. >> Oh, >> actually, not not even different. Just the dates in mine. I've got a longer a longer time than you have there. >> Yeah. And I saw a draft version as well. So, I'm not sure maybe um staff could speak to that because generally it is a two-year date and I wasn't sure if this was being given a three-year date for some other reason. >> Uh yeah, Karen. So, through the chair um we did discuss doing an extended date. Um and also it should read August uh 30th or 31st uh 2028 or 2029. um just because it is a larger project, they'll need full uh they'll need a demolition permit as well as building permits. Um and the current rate of construction is sometimes a little slower than anticipated. Um additionally, just flagging that because this is a part five property, it will need council approval. Um so by the time it goes to council, the the approval date will likely be closer to August. Um which is why we've changed the date a little bit as well. >> Okay. So the condition would be then August 31st, 2029. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> I think that's what's on the um agenda >> through through the chair again, Alyssa Golden, culture heritage program lead. Maybe I think as we were preparing the draft slides, um there might have just been a copy and paste. So could I ask Lisa, would you be able to just pull up the note sheet which has the um proposed staff conditions that Charles was mentioning as well? We'll just make sure it's in front of all of you before you take your vote. Okay. So, that looks the same except for the revised date. So, okay. With um this in front of you then. Um, may I move may I have a mover and a seconder to recommend approval of Oh, did someone have a comment? Oh, yes, Sandra. Sorry. Oh, sorry. You're moving and seconding. Okay. Um, mover and a seconder to um recommend approval of HP 202612 7 John Street East in Flamborough with the proposed conditions. And I see Sandra and I see Andy. Okay. And is there anyone opposed? Okay, seeing none, that motion is carried. So, um yes, thank you for coming in, Charles, and um >> and uh staff will be following up with you on next steps then on this approval. And um good luck with your project. >> All right, thank you very much, guys. Take care. Have a good night. >> Okay, you too. Take care. Okay, so now um we have one more item on our agenda then. Do we have time to deal with uh this this evening staff? What what is your recommendation? >> Yes, thanks Karen. Um so originally I mean you guys flew through this agenda which is fantastic. Um the original plan was to just uh give an initial verbal update and then we'll do some consultation with you folks on this item at the next meeting. Um so I'll proceed as planned with that but uh yes, too bad. that I should have planned to give you the the full presentation and done it today. Um, so if it's okay, I'll just I'll just uh jump into this. This is an update from staff on the heritage process review. Um, some of you might have been aware of this. This project goes back um actually commenced in 2014. There was a direction from um council through planning committee for staff to take a look at our heritage permit process. And this had come out of some questions around how permit review used to function and how we interpreted different types of applications for permits like alterations versus partial demolition. Uh really stemming from the James Street Baptist Church um parish permit at the time. Um so that had resulted in staff reporting to planning committee with the terms of reference for this process review which then also at the time included our designation process. Um so work had really uh been done between 2014 and 2016 on this project. Uh we did a significant amount of work in terms of best practice review comparisons provincialwide. We had consulted with the heritage committee at the time with this subcommittee uh with advisory groups with key stakeholders designated property owners and as well as municipal heritage planners across the province. Um, and that resulted in a stakeholder workshop that we held in November 2015. And there was a summary report for that workshop that used to be on our website which is now down but will be circulated to this subcommittee before uh the next time we engage with you next month. Um but just wanted to give that background on great amount of work that was done previously but unfortunately um didn't cross the finish line and since then we've had a number of legislative changes and process changes that have just happened naturally without this process review um being completed. Um and that includes um really formalization of how this subcommittee works. Um, part of the issue was a lack of transparency and posting of agendas at the time. That's all been sort of dealt with already through clerk's implementation. So, a lot of those um administrative challenges and issues that were identified previously have been addressed through updates to how the subcommittee functions. Um and then we also saw some other legislative changes like provincial changes to the Ontario Heritage Act. Um Bill 108, Bill 23, if folks are familiar with the bill names and the various changes since 2018 and now um that have uh sort of forced some other improvements that would have been addressed through this process review, including we've already updated our designation process. So that component of the process review has already been taken care of. Um, and then more recently, staff have just circled back and wanted to close the loop and address the heritage permit um, process review component of the project. And we did some preliminary consultation with some internal staff working from that original um, set of recommendations that were at that uh, stakeholder workshop that I mentioned back in 2015, seeing what's still needed to move forward, what's already been addressed. Um so next month we'll come to you with a more detailed presentation on what those um proposed changes could be to get your feedback on those. Our goal would be to hopefully bring forward any recommend recommended changes to our um heritage permit process before the next term of council and the new term of the subcommittee. So we're sort of starting fresh at that point. Um, but we'll go into more detail next month, but essentially this would be looking at just how do we potentially streamline our permit process. I know we've had some conversations about certain types of applications um that maybe the subcommittee doesn't need to see that are very straightforward. So whether those could potentially be delegated directly to staff, that's probably the biggest part of um the process improvements that we'd be looking for feedback on. As this subcommittee is aware, hopefully from just your experience so far and the training that we gave at the start of this term, um the heritage act does allow us to delegate council's approval of heritage permits to staff. And our current process here in Hamilton is that delegation exists, but every permit has to go to the subcommittee before staff could potentially approve or approve it with conditions. Um so what we'll consult on next month is a list of some types of applications. um that potentially could be de delegated directly to staff without the subcommittee having to review. And then that would hopefully decrease processing times um require less staff resources and really give you folks more time to focus on the types of applications where your feedback's the most valuable. Um so looking forward to consulting with you on those. Um, and I guess leading into next next month's agenda, if there's anything that you folks have any questions about, uh, um, we'll circulate the facilitator report I mentioned and we'll provide some slides ahead of time to really get you thinking. Um, but if there's anything just with this brief introduction I've given that comes to mind that you have any questions about, happy to answer that now. >> Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Um, I mean that sounds great, Alyssa. Especially, um, getting the information in advance, giving us a chance to think it through, um, will be very helpful and hopefully get some good feedback from people. Any other thoughts? Excellent. See, everyone is so efficient. Okay. Um, okay then. Thank you. And um we'll look forward to hearing the full questions next month. And if there is no further business, then I adjourn the meeting at 5:48 p.m. See you next month. >> Good night all. See you again.