Okay, everyone. Uh, get the show on the road. Uh, call to order the 15th meeting of the infrastructure and corporate services committee. Uh, please check the city website for additional meeting detail information. City of London is situated on the traditional lands of the Anesabek, the Hodnachon, Lenawanak, and the Adawand. We honor and respect the history, languages, and culture of the diverse indigenous people who call this territory home. City of London is currently home to many First Nations, Matei, and Inuit. Today, as representatives of the people of the city of London, we are grateful to have the opportunity to work and live in this territory. Um, all members of committee are either u in chambers or online. Uh we also have councelor Ramen and councelor Perple joining us and the mayor as well. City of London is committed to making every effort to provide alternate formats and communication supports for meetings upon request. To make a request specific to this meeting, please contact ICLondon.ca or 519-661-2489 extension 2425. I will now look for any disclosures of your interest. Okay, not seeing any. Uh we are now on to consent items. Uh I haven't had any poll requests, but I will look uh to see if there are any. Okay, I'm not seeing any. Uh I will then look for a motion to move items 2.1 through 2.10. Uh councelor Frank, councelor Pelosa, thank you. Okay, so the all items on consent have been moved uh and seconded and now looking for discussion from committee. Uh okay, go ahead, councelor Pelosa. >> Thank you. Um the mayor had his hand up to you. I'm not sure if you're pay playing favorites, but I'll take it. Um, just briefly on item 2.1 being the city of London's uh credit rating. Congratulations to staff that this is uh the Moody's our 50th year um having this credit rating and realizing there's other municipalities in the province who had actually lost theirs that uh this is wonderful. Uh having been budget chair I guess for six of these. um looking to see sometimes with Londoners, it's always in of what does this actually mean to Londoners that the city has their AAA credit rating. If staff could speak briefly to if we did get downgraded what that increased cost of borrowing would be um for debt servicing. >> Okay. Um Mr. Murray or Miss Barbone, whoever wants it, go ahead. >> Thank you through the chair. If I might start actually cuz uh I think given the milestone um I do want to thank and formally recognize council for this because this is uh council's achievement and uh previous councils as well as this council to prudent financial stewardship and long-term financial planning. So certainly the the sustained fiscal discipline and sound financial policies and the very much the long-term approach to prudent financial management is what got us here. So I think I'd be remiss if I didn't have an opportunity to to thank all of the councils uh past and current to um towards their very good decision-m and and the long-term view that got us here today. So that being said, the AAA credit rating is definitely what uh allows the city to be able to issue debt with the lowest debt servicing cost, thereby minimizing the interest rates on uh future debt issuances. So with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Murray and he can walk you through um the dollar value impact of a potential change. >> Uh thank you through you. So I appreciate the question. Uh, you know, ultimately at the end of the day, as Miss Burmone noted, is is ultimately savings to London taxpayers and rateayers. Um, and and those savings in terms of the difference between a AAA rating and let's say a double A rating. Uh, those could be upwards of uh two basis points on our borrowing. Uh, basis points being uh hundreds of a percent. Now, on the surface, that might not uh seem like a lot. However, uh in the amounts that we borrow in, the the magnitudes of our borrowing, that adds up. So, uh over the course of, you know, our our uh debt issuance and in most cases a 10-year term, uh that could that could be uh in the millions very easily, uh depending on how much uh we're we're issuing. And certainly uh as we've noted in our recent budget materials, we do forecast that our debt issuance is going to grow in the years ahead. Uh you know, and that's to be expected. Um so we we'll see our our issuance uh get larger. Uh we may also uh in certain circumstances consider different terms uh for our debt. So 20 years instead of 10 years for example. And in those those situations the the savings are even greater. So, uh, you know, on on a small issuance, it could be in the hundreds of thousands, uh, over the term, uh, of the the borrowing, but on larger issuances or or longer term issuances, you could be well into the millions of dollars of savings of interest costs. >> Followup, counselor, >> thank you. No, just uh thank you to Miss Rbone for those words and realizing that we got here as well based on this council's decision and those who came before us in the prudence and keeping those decisions going forward for financial management and then for Mr. Murray for outlining that if it did slip that it might just seem like a small incremental change, but for the magnitude of which the city uses uh and borrows that for the projects that it could end up being millions of extra taxpayer dollars but them getting no extra value. Um so just thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, councelor. Um Mayor Morgan, you were next. Go ahead. >> Uh yes. So, and I'm glad uh councelor PLA got to go first because she covered off a couple of things that I would have said, but I do want to also uh offer my thanks um not just to uh staff and the financial teams, but um everybody over the past five decades, whether it's council or previous city managers or previous treasurers or previous uh uh those who've worked in the the finance areas, everybody who submits and monitors their budgets in their areas, achieving this consistently for five decades is a phenomenal accomplishment of many people sticking to a long-term fiscal plan with a lot of discipline through you know over that time period significant changes whether it was collapses of the equity markets or a pandemic or you know asset back commercial paper lots of headwinds and lots of challenges that could have come along over that period um that the city has been able to maintain uh the highest possible credit rating there, as was said, like this is important. Debt markets are competitive. So, when people are going out there with limited capital dollars and they're saying, "We're going to buy some debt. We're going to put money in the hands of those issuing the debt so they can do the projects they need to do." It's competitive. It people want to go to the safest possible um place and they want to get a fair return for their money. And when your debt is competitive, you get better rates and you get it fully subscribed. Cuz remember, we need we need people to to loan us money to be able to achieve the multigenerational projects that we do. Um there's a line in the report, if you'll indulge me, that I want to read because it reminds us of how we have to think about our decisions moving forward to maintain our AAA credit rating. Moody's notes that a a sustained loss of fiscal discipline leading to a material increase in debt or a substantial reduction of available financial reserves could place downward pressure on the city's credit rating. Credit rating downgrade or change in outlook uh to negative by Moody's may cause investors to lose confidence in the city's financial management practices and/or corresponding quality of city debt potentially affecting the city's ability to raise future financing. This would also increase interest rates which as the city issues debt would increase debt servicing costs for the city as was just mentioned by um Mr. Murray. So it's really important to uh to maintain our fiscal discipline. It's important for us to continue to ensure our policies are effective and it's very clear what policies uh Moody's uh looks to. It's the policies that help us manage debt and debt issuance. It's the policies that help us manage infrastructure gap. It's the policies that are manage uh allow us to manage uh our reserve funds to ensure that you know when we need to draw in resources in in a situation we have the ability to do so that liquidity is really important for us to be able to maintain this credit rating and that that's what good puts it in you know the city in good financial stewardship good financial position but ultimately at the end of the day we do all of this on behalf of the the people in the city of London getting them good rates in their debt keeps their cost down keeps pressure off of property taxes and allows the city to build the things you need to build because the debt is fully subscribed. So, um, just wanted to add those thoughts. Thanks. >> Okay. U, thank you, mayor. Um, looking for other committee members. Okay. I'm not seeing them. Council, you had your hand up as well. [clears throat] >> Uh, so all consent items have been moved. If you want to speak now, go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you. So, the chair to the staff, I do have I'm going to start with 2.2 two and uh there are two points that I would like to discuss and if you can give me a feedback on the social econom e economic support services the deficit and also the LMS uh LMCH surplus and if you can just add some contributing factors to these two categories go ahead Mr. Sorry. Thank you. Through you. So, I'll start with uh LMCH. There's a there's a number of things that are uh driving uh their projected surplus of approximately half a million dollars. Um I'll highlight kind of the bigger ones that that they've noted [snorts] to us. Um those being higher than budgeted rent revenues. Uh they're about uh $600,000 ahead of pace on that. Uh and they have lower than budgeted insurance costs uh year to date as well. That's about $200,000. They are however seeing some uh slightly higher uh maintenance spending than they than they budgeted. So that is offsetting uh some of those other surplus areas. So that that's the main driving factors behind LMCH. Uh social and community support services is uh largely being driven by higher than budgeted uh spending on Ontario Works employment related expenses. That's about $1.4 million uh there. And ultimately the aim there is to uh improve clients pathways to employment. So, um that is the primary driver in that area that is um being offset uh somewhat by uh some savings or anticipated surplus we're seeing in child care. Uh we envision uh not requiring as much municipal dollars there as we'll have uh provincial revenues available to cover our spending uh to some degree. Thank you. >> Followup councelor. Thank you for that and I'm I'm glad to hear that LMCH that those savings are not in maintenance part because we are aware of some of the maintenance issues that we need to or that need to be addressed. So thanks for that. Uh in this report it states RT and I do know I realize that we are going city more with the rapid transit instead of the BRT. Is there anywhere that we can always list in the bracket that this is kind of previous BRT because I do have sometimes a question and Londoners is are asking in terms of the funding and expenses and I think it would be very clear that it's not that we are trying to uh have a different account for RT different for BRT but I really think that it would be great simply in the bracket that this is previously called BRT and the funding there there were no changes. It's still going with uh BRT as it used to be set in the past. Is this possible or how could this be clarified? >> Go ahead, Murray. >> Thank you. Three. So when we refer to RT or BRT, we're talking about one and the same. So that is referring to the the same area and the same spending. Uh RT or rapid transit is the official terminology that the the city has adopted. uh that is the terminology uh that uh that is utilized in our service-based budget. So the service is officially named uh rapid transit. Um so certainly uh appreciate and understand your your concerns counselor and we'll take that under advisement going forward and think about how uh where and how we can we can provide that clarity where it may be required. >> Followup counselor. >> Thank you for that. 2.3 uh I [clears throat] know last week at the pack committee we had some funds coming back which is great from the province and uh there was a um project for Persburg 4.1 million if I look at current one there are three projects that are over $15 million could you please let me know or explain if the 4.1 is covering some of the 15 or is it in addition to Thank you. >> Go ahead Mr. Thank you. So the the 4.1 million in a nutshell is is incremental dollars. Now um there are actually uh five capital projects, three of which you see and you've you've [snorts] noted in this report, but there are two others as well. So there are five uh capital projects in totality that will be used towards this uh this Pottersburg Vauhall uh transfer pumping station project. uh the $15 million uh figure that you referenced, I believe, is the the original total budget, but there's actually uh approximately 8.1 million uh currently available across those five projects. So, the the 4.1 million will be added to the 8.1 million and we're confident that that will be sufficient uh to complete that that project. >> Followup, councelor, >> thank you for that. still in 2.3 the DC charges. So when it when it states there in 2025 45.9 million which represents about 25.9% so in my math it's about uh that we are short about $131 million. Uh what is the can you just confirm it if that's correct my math and also what is the cumulative uh amount during the years of this council I think would be probably from 21. Please go ahead. Go ahead, M. Uh, thank you through you. So, your your understanding is correct, counselor, your figures are correct. Um, since 2021, so that's the uh the 2021 DC study. Uh, the cumulative uh revenue loss at this point has been two approximately $245 million uh that we've had to manage through a number of different means such as project deferrals uh through the DMI GMIS process or uh other deferrals through the the budget monitoring process. So we continue to keep a close eye on those reserve funds uh and managing according to the revenues that are coming in. >> Followup councelor thank you. As we are juggling it now these funds uh and mainly through GMIS are there certain projects that you feel that we had to put on hold and it's slowing us down in our growth. >> Uh go ahead Murray. >> Uh thank you three. So the uh the priority to date has certainly been on those housing enabling projects and and ensuring that those uh projects move forward uh as they're required and so that they're not uh impeding the uh achievement of uh housing units and housing growth and our housing targets. Um so that has been the the emphasis and the focus to date. Uh certainly though the the the longer these challenges continue the uh the more challenging it will be to maintain the pace of all projects and the timing of all projects. So, uh there will be uh perhaps a need in the future to uh defer some projects that we really would prefer not to uh to defer and certainly um those other projects those you know maybe aren't directly housing enabling but important things nonetheless whether they be uh community centers or parks or that sort of things important community building things. Um those are the the projects that we're going to have to be very mindful of as well that we don't lose sight of and that we're able to uh to still move forward with uh despite the challenges that we're facing. >> Follow up councelor. >> Thank you for that. The 245 million is certainly a large amount. Um uh how much of it would you say would be to the due to the stat statutory legislative exemption and how much would be through the DC DC payment referrals? Uh >> go ahead Mr. Thank you. And through you. So, uh, in 2025 alone, uh, we had, uh, statutory exemptions and discounts of almost 55 million, uh, and, uh, DC payment deferrals of, uh, just north of 40 million. Um, so that's a pretty, uh, pretty substantial, I guess, additional contributor to the revenue shortfall. >> Followup, councelor. >> Okay, thank you for that. Uh, I do have now one more question for 2.8. the 2025 infrastructure renewal program, the one for Sunningale and Richmond. And my question is the last comment is the contract is currently forecasted to require additional 700,000 to complete the remaining work in 2026. Uh can you please clarify for me what work if it actually has been done and we just need to pay for it or is there actually work still to be done that we will need the $700,000 for? Go ahead, Mr. Sher. Or is it Mr. Murray or Miss Dan? Okay, [laughter] go ahead. >> Thank you and through the chair. Um, yes, the work is mostly visibly complete on the surface and the intersection has been reopened, but the contract hasn't been fully closed out. Um, we do have some costs that have yet to be invoiced. And so, this is projecting our remaining work to be completed as well as remaining quantities to be invoiced and to be able to make sure we have enough budget in the to be able to pay for those invoices. >> Followup, councelor. >> Okay, thank you for that. And actually the last one for the Seni diagram with the classification and are we still I don't compare it to last one but uh is it really mirroring the last couple of them that we've done or are there certain changes? >> Um go ahead. >> I'm sorry. Could you repeat the first part of the question? >> I'm sorry I'm jumping back now. It's actually from Mr. Murray. >> Go ahead Mr. Murray. [laughter] >> Thank you. three you. So I I believe this is referring to the uh the diagram that's in the the capital budget monitoring report. So that tends to be fairly consistent uh over time. It it might shift uh slightly you know over the course of you know a number of years but um generally that that mix uh tends to be fairly consistent and that's due in large part to some of the uh financial principles and and practices that we have. you know, for example, uh not utilizing debt for life cycle renewal works. Um that's uh kind of a principle that ensures some consistency in those allocations and how we fund our capital program. >> Followup councelor, >> thank you for all the answers. No question. No more questions then. >> Okay. Um go ahead, councelor Rom. >> Uh thank you and through you. I will try not to jump around too much. Um but had a couple questions. Um I'll start with the capital budget monitoring report. Um in it there's a line that states that the Sarnia Road project uh the scope of the work is changing and I'm just wondering um with the scope change. I think it was about $8 million difference um what we can anticipate if the timeline's shorter and uh what we expect to go into the EA versus um being done now. >> Okay. Uh, who gets that one? Okay, just just one moment. When whenever you're ready [gasps] through the chair. Sorry. Um, could I trouble you to repeat the question? >> Go ahead, councelor. Thank you. Um it was just about the Sarna road improvements. So uh Sarnia and or sorry Western Road Sarnia Philibazis. Um the report mentions that there's an $8 million decrease in the cost of the project because uh a number of the the approaches will be looked at through the EA and with bus rapid transit potentially in the corridor. Uh so I'm just wondering at this point what um updates do we have on the project? What's the expected timeline? Is there a lot of changes in terms of the scope of the work and what might the completed project now look like in and um how do we anticipate that to be different? >> Go ahead. >> Drew the chair. Thank you for that clarification. That was helpful. So um yes, when the project was originally scoped, um rapid transit was not planned for that corridor. So there was much more extensive improvements planned. Uh once the mobility master plan recommended rapid transit for that corridor, uh a number of the improvements were scaled back knowing that we'd be coming through um in the future to do more extensive upgrades, but um it was important for us to move forward with the active transportation improvements at this point in time um because they're uh well needed in the the near term. >> Followup counselor, >> thank you. Does that change the timeline? >> Go ahead. It does not change the timeline for the active transportation improvements planned for next year. >> Followup councelor, [snorts] >> thank you. Would we be able or will we be anticipating a report coming to ICSC on what the changes within the scope of the work is at some point? >> Go ahead. >> Through the chair. Uh I believe there may have been a previous report in the matter when the uh western uh Philip's intersection works came through because that one um had the same sort of situation where it was scaled back um based on the planning for f future rapid transit. Um that said, we're happy to to bring forward or share some information offline as needed. >> Followup counselor. >> Thank you. That's helpful. Um, I'll move on to um our infrastructure or sorry, I'll move on to our contracts for amendments to traffic and parking by law. So, I was pleased to see, sorry, I know people have to switch seats. Um, I was pleased to see that uh within the area that uh Herd Creek Trail that has now been officially recommended for an all-way stop. I'm just wondering from a process perspective um we do our own study measurement etc on on the intersection activity but we also received feedback from London police and London police had recommended this as well. I'm just wondering how do those those two conversations and that work go hand in hand glove um as we move forward uh because sometimes London police will go out they'll assess situation they'll make a recommendation that feeds back in and sometimes it's uh a study done by our staff and in this case it was initiated by many calls from neighbors in the area that were really struggling with cars uh that were having trouble navigating that new intersection. >> Go ahead, staff. >> Yeah, through the chair. Um, yeah, we do use our studies, we use the uh warrant process to make those determinations, but we also do meet quarterly with LPS to uh look at different issues throughout the city and they do help inform our decision ultimately for that particular intersection. >> Followup. Councelor, >> thank you. So, can we anticipate as police are doing more enforcement and they make recommendations, excuse me, [clears throat] at specific intersections, how how does that process help to move the issue forward? In this case, it was about a two-year process where neighbors and residents were complaining about the that intersection. So, I'm just trying to get a sense of what's the best way to get these intersections that are troublesome monitored. >> Go ahead. Well, we we do our best to manage all these intersections and all these different situations throughout the city. We try to prioritize that them that way, but again, we do work with the LPS as much as possible quarterly in fact and uh we will try to coordinate those issues and use them as part of our assessment for these type of controls at the intersections. >> Followup councelor, >> thank you. That's all on that matter. Um just moving back to follow up on councelor Pribble's question on 2.8 eight, which was the 2025 infrastructure renewal program and specifically around Sunningale Road enrichment in the intersection and the 700,000 additional expense. Um, part of that expense or that unpaid invoice is because of water mane or water work that has to be done again or is it that it wasn't completed the first time? >> Yes. And through the there was two components to the additional cost that used up the contingency value in the contract. The one was related to dewatering that was experienced near the intersection. The second was revolving around replacing an existing water valve in the chamber. Um during testing procedures after the contract had been awarded, it was determined that the valve was malfunctioning and required a full replacement. So while the crews were actively on site, we added that scope of work into the contract so we could fix it in a timely manner. >> Followup counselor. >> Thank you. So, do we anticipate that we're going to have to be back into the intersection to complete more work for that area? >> Go ahead, M. >> Um, there is a portion of it that is yet to be completed. If you look at the intersection, it's open to traffic and there's a small patch area where we've left the top code ashalt off. So, once the valve is received, we'll be able to go in and do that. There will be a minor water shutdown and some traffic impacts, we will communicate once we have that timing established. >> Followup, counselor. >> Thank you. That's all. Okay, I'm looking around for committee members, visiting counselors. Okay, I'm not seeing any. Uh, we'll open the vote. And just as a reminder, this is on all consent items. >> Councelor Vanirburgen. I'll vote yes. Closing the vote. Motion carries six to zero. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh we don't have any scheduled items. There's no items for direction deferred matters. Uh do have a number of confidential. So I'll look for a motion to go into confidential session. Councelor PLA, Councelor Frank. Thank you. And we'll open that for voting. I'll vote yes. >> Closing the vote. Motion carry six to zero. Okay, welcome back to public session. I will look to uh councelor Frank to report out from close session. >> Thank [snorts] you. I'm pleased to announce that progress has been made for the items for which we went in camera for. >> Thank you. And we are on uh adjournment. Looking for a motion to adjurnn. Councelor Frank, councelor Poza. All those in favor? Any opposed? >> Motion carries. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh this is my last one chairing uh ICSC. So uh thanks everyone. Have a good day.