We're good to go. Good morning everyone. Welcome to the Heritage Oakville Advisory Committee meeting which is open to the public. Members of the public may also watch the meeting live stream on oakville.ca or the town's YouTube channel. Um, delegations who wish to join the meeting are required to pre-register with the clerk's department by noon the day before the meeting. And there are two delegates for today's meeting. Uh, agenda and materials are available are available on oakville.ca under town hall agendas and meetings. You can also find the online delegation form in the agendas and meetings section that can be submitted electronically should you wish to delegate at a future heritage advisory committee meeting. Today we have two discussion items and no information items on the agenda. And uh are there any regrets, Madam Secretary? >> Yes, Drew, George, Susan, and Jason are regrets. >> Thank you for that. Uh are there any declarations of pecuniary interest? None. Okay. And um can we have a confirmation of minutes of the previous meetings um meeting of September 22nd of this year? Councelor Longo is move moving the confirmation of the minutes. Everyone in favor Okay, it is moved by councelor Longo that the minutes of September 22nd um are confirmed and accepted. Item number 41, discussion item, the heritage designation project 2023 to 2027 and the heritage registered update. And we have Kristen presenting. Take it away. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just going to wait for presentation. All right. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. Uh good morning committee members. I am first speaking to item 4.1 on the agenda. uh as uh the chair has indicated an update on the heritage register and the town's designation project before the removal of listed properties from municipal heritage registers on the deadline of January 1st, 2027. So, a bit of background on this project uh that started back in 2023. In October of 2022, the province introduced Bill 23, which made several significant changes to the Ontario Heritage Act, particularly regarding properties listed on municipal heritage registers and how those registers will operate in the future. Under bill 23, properties listed before January 1st, 2023 were required to be designated by January 1st, 2025 or removed from the registers. project properties, sorry, listed after that date were subject to a two-year designation timeline or to be removed, whereas previously buildings could remain listed indefinitely. Bill 23 also increased the designation threshold under the Ontario regulation 906, requiring properties to meet at least two of the nine heritage criteria rather than one. In response, the town initiated the heritage designation project in 2023 to evaluate and designate properties with potential cultural heritage value. At that time, Oakville had 294 properties listed on the Heritage Register. Staff evaluated the listed properties and selected 100 priority properties. Staff initially anticipated evaluating and designating approximately 80 properties between 2023 and 2025. To support this work, the town hired two additional heritage planners on contract to undertake the research, evaluation, and designation work. In June 2024, Bill 200 extended the deadline for designation of listed properties to January 1st, 2027, which provided municipalities with additional time to complete further designations. In Oakville specifically, again, it started with a preliminary assessment of all 294 listed properties. Staff reviewed each against the three categories, general categories of heritage value under the Ontario regulation 906, which again is design or physical value, historical or associative value, and contextual value. This initial screening identified those 100 priority properties with the potential to meet designation criteria. Staff then prepared cultural heritage evaluation reports or shares for the prioritized property. Each report included historical research and assessment of the property's condition and an evaluation against the nine criteria. Despite not being a provincial requirement, staff throughout this project made efforts to reach out to owners early and send drafts of research reports so site visits could be conducted with owners. Through these heritage attributes and report details were refined as necessary before bringing the notices to designate to council. Based on these evaluations, staff made recommendations on whether designation under part four of the Ontario Heritage Act should proceed. Where designation was recommended, the process then proceeded through the Heritage Oakville Advisory Committee and Planning and Development Council. This included the preparation of a notice of intention to designate and draft designation bylaw for each property. Since the beginning of the project, the town has designated 84 additional properties. >> [clears throat] >> Sorry. There also approximately 15 properties currently in progress of designation, including two cultural heritage landscapes that contain multiple structures. Of those remaining properties, staff anticipate approximately nine designations um to be started by the end of 2026 with approximately six carrying into 2027 subject to change. For any properties that cannot be designated by the January 1st, 2027 deadline, the town will then be required to remove them from the heritage register. Importantly, this does not mean that those properties cannot be considered for designation in the future. Designation can still occur for unlisted properties. However, the removal of the listed properties from the register also removes the current protection from demolition that listed properties have. Staff will maintain an internal inventory of previously listed properties to track potential future designations, commemoration, or salvage opportunities. Properties removed on January 1st, 2027 cannot be relisted until January 1st, 2032. And again, when they are relisted, they will have a deadline of 2 years before they have to be removed again or designated. As we approach the January 1st, 2027 deadline, [music] the heritage designation project is nearing completion. Overall, as I said, the project has resulted in those 84 additional properties with 15 more in progress. Um, in the end of the project, which is likely the first half of 2027, uh, a final total of approximately over 100 properties, which is 1/3 was 1/3 of the town's listed properties, will have been protected through the designation program. Looking ahead, the additional designations resulting from this project may create some increased demand on the town's heritage program. This this could include increased applications to the heritage grant program which uh is already typically overs subscribed as well as additional heritage permit applications and development applications requiring heritage review. However, staff will continue to monitor these impacts. So, the staff recommendation for this item is just that this report um dated November 24th, 2026 um sorry, not November 24th um whatever the date is on the actual I just put the wrong one on my slide. uh from planning and development be received and I can answer any questions. Thank you. >> Thank you Kristen. It's really good to see and to hear that uh onethird of the properties um are designated. It would have been uh happier if a 100% of them were designated, but uh it's a it's a really good thing that we have a third designated. Um, does anyone on the committee have uh anything they want to say to this um item that Kristen just presented? Councelor Mcnes. >> Thank you uh through your chair. Um, first I just want to commend uh staff on their their great work and and foresight on this and uh Kristen and the team and also the staff that we've had throughout the last few years and and many years uh at the town. They've done such a great job on Heritage um including Carolyn, Susan, Elaine um and others. So I I think um and also to all of council. I mean, there was great foresight back in 2022, 2023 when we knew the list was going to be torn up um that we took the initiative to get ahead of this and many other municipalities didn't and I think we're seeing the fruits of our labor here. Um just a question on the properties that may get listed into 2027. How does that work if there's the January 1st deadline? Is it if you've started a a share process or or do we or is that just happening in case it gets extended? >> Uh through you, Madam Chair. So the ones that are currently listed after January 1st can't be relisted again, but they can be designated. So we can go an unlisted property can still be brought forward to for designation. So, >> okay, >> the some of them are in progress and some of the ones by the end of this year will have already gone to council in December, which then it at that point when a notice is brought to council, it's theoretically designated and protected while that process continues. For those that don't make it to council in December, um even if they're removed from the register as a listed property, they can still be designated. So, that process can continue. Um, we can list other properties after 2027, but they would just have to be ones that weren't previously listed until 2032. >> Okay. Just uh yeah, I'm just uh still a bit unclear. So, the ones you had uh in the 2027 kind I think of seven or eight you said and um so are those already on the list, but the list is getting torn up so we wouldn't be able to designate them or >> they are sorry through you madam chair. they are listed. Um they will be removed from the register January 1st, but we can still designate them even if they aren't listed. So that process has started for most of them um working with property owners, but >> okay, >> they can be unlisted. They can be removed and we can still designate. Basically being removed from the register um means that there's no demolition protection for it if someone came in with a demolition permit, which is currently what happens. That's kind of the only >> Okay. um legislative trigger of a of a listed property. Um so being removed from the register as listed property doesn't prohibit us from still designating it if that makes sense. >> Okay. Yeah, I'm getting there. Thanks. I can talk to you offline. Um I know it's confusing. Um if um and then also I mean do you need more time to try to get a few more done in December before the council meeting? I think I'll put I think our last council meeting. Um you know, just trying to squeeze in as many um registrations as we can before that January 1st deadline, but um I don't know when our last council meeting is. I think it's the 18th. Uh or is it the >> 14th? I think >> 14th. Okay. Then anyway, if you if it's possible to rearrange the schedule, I think it would be worth it if we can get one or two more designations. But certainly I'm I'm sure that's something we can talk about internally. Um but thank you very much for for this and and the recommendation. Happy to move it at the appropriate time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you councelor Mcnes. Uh any more questions of Kristen comments? Okay. We have a motion on the table moved by councelor Mcnes that the report heritage designation project 2023 to 2027 and heritage register update dated November 3rd 2026 from planning and development be received. All in favor? Yep. Moved by counselor mcnes. Thank you. The next item is 4.2 to notice of intention to designate multiple properties. Uh 46 Cameo Street, 509 Lakeshore Road East, 425 Fourth Line, and 91 Gorda Drive. And we have Kristen presenting as well. All right. Thank you, Madame Chair and committee. So, uh I am now speaking to item 4.2 2 on the agenda regarding the four notices of intention to designate as part of our uh just discussed designation project. So just to reiterate the four properties we are bringing forward for consideration are 46 Cameo Street or uh Fagen House, 509 Lakeshore Road East or Evergreen Lodge, 425 Force Line or Elm Place and 91 Gorda Drive or Rockdale Farmhouse. Uh just a bit of background on this process as we complete the project. staff completed a draft cultural heritage evaluation report for each of the four properties. Um, according to town practice, these draft reports were circulated to property owners in the summer to provide an opportunity for feedback and to coordinate site visits. These visits allow staff to further review the properties in person and refine proposed heritage attributes and research reports and has been the standard practice for the 80 plus designated properties as part of this project. While normally these site visits are conducted and reports finalized before bringing the notices to the heritage committee, um three of the four properties did not extend finalized invitations for site visits. Given the designation priorities and the approaching legislative deadlines, staff proceeded with bringing the notices uh forward to committee for these properties. It is important to note that bringing the not the draft notices, sorry, to committee does not mean that heritage attributes or the reports are necessarily finalized. staff intend to and would like to continue working with all property owners to refine the proposed heritage attributes and address any feedback before the reports and designation notices are brought forward to council. There is no legislated timeline requiring this matter to proceed from committee to council within a specified time frame. The immediate priority for staff is to ensure uh as noted from the previous item that the designation process progresses as part of the designation project. Ultimately, staff are recommending designation of these four properties under part four of the Ontario Heritage Act. I will now uh briefly summarize the four properties. Uh however, more details can be found in the attached shares in front of you. So, the first property is the Fagen House located at 46 Cameo Street. This is historically uh an estate house. It stands on its original location. It was now in what is now a sub subdivided neighborhood. It is a two-story arts and crafts estate house constructed circa 1925. And staff would like to note at this time for this property that we are in conversation and working with the property owners arranging for a site visit and discussing ne next steps for designation of this property moving forward. In terms of Ontario regulation 906 criteria, the property has design value as a representative example of a period revival style estate house built in the 1920s. As a former estate house, the property has historical and associative value uh with the theme of Lakeshore estate development in southeast Oakville and its previous prominent owners, including the Cox family. The property has contextual value as it is physically and historically linked to its surroundings. It remains on its historical grounds and contributes to the understanding of early Oakville settlement and Lakeshore estate development. The second property is 509 Lakeshore Road East, which is a two-story Gothic revival style house uh with Italian influences built uh circa 1870s. Oop, sorry. The property has design value as a representative example of a Gothic revival farmhouse with Italian influences. The property has historical value as it is associated with William H. Spears, a director of the Oakville Navigation Company and a prominent early Oakville community member. It was also later home to other prominent citizens such as JM Wallace who owned the Oakville Basket Factory for a time and home of Alan Mason or yes, previous Oakville mayor. Subject house has contextual value as it is important in defining, supporting, and maintaining the character of this area. Uh it is a visual reminder of the early farming community turned into these lakeshore estates and the property is physically, functionally, visually and historically linked to its surroundings. It stands in its original location and contributes to the understanding of local history. Again, specifically the development of farms in this area turned into estates. The third property is Elm Place, which is located at 425 Force Line. This is a two-story single detached frame house with stock cladding and it was built circa 1860. The property has design value as a representative example of an evolved Gothic farmhouse again built in the 1860s with later arts and crafts alterations. The property has historical and associative value as it is associated with James and Augusta Mccrainy members of one of the earliest families to settle in the Oakville area and with the Huard family who developed the property into Wilton Farm. This property is then also associated with a local Oakville theme of orchard and fruit farming along Lakeshore Road. The property has contextual value as it is physically, visually, and historically linked to its surroundings. The house stands in its original location and is linked to over 100 years of farming history. And the fourth property is Rockdale Farmhouse at 91 Gorda Drive. Uh, and similar to the for first property, this was originally the farm property and has since been turned into a residential subdivision. The property contains a detached two-story stucco house with the original portion built in the 1860s to early 1870s in the Ontario vernacular Italian style. The property has design value as a representative early example of the Ontario vernacular Italian farmhouse. The subject property is historically associated with the theme of development of local agricultural area to Oakville subdivisions that occurred in the early to mid 1900s. It is also associated with community members such as the Mccrainy family, the Hagaman family and the Kent, specifically Arthur and Gertrude Kent. The neighborhood is named after their family and the stone wall that was at the original entrance to the farm still stands on sixth line. The Kent operated the farm for nearly 50 years. The property retains contextual value as it is physically, functionally and historically linked to its surroundings. Surroundings sorry it still it remains on its historical grounds and acts as an anchor to the understanding of development of the local community from farmland. So staff have determined that all four properties meet the criteria under Ontario regulation 906 and merit designation under part 4 of the Ontario Heritage Act. Following committee's consideration, a staff report for each property will be brought forward to planning and development council at a later date. In the interim, staff would like to continue working with the property owners to review and refine proposed heritage attributes and report details. The intention is to ensure that any feedback received and any additional information gathered can be incorporated before any notices are brought to council. And as a reminder, once the bylaws are brought forward to council, uh notices for those bylaws are served, uh there are two 30-day objection and appeal periods as part of that process. If no objections or appeals are received, those bylaws are then finalized and remain in effect. So today's staff recommendation is that a notice of intention to designate be issued under section 29 part 4 of the Ontario Heritage Act for the four properties of 46 Cameo Street, 509 Lakes Shore Road East, 425 Force Line, and 91 Gorda Drive. And thank you. I'm happy to answer any questions. >> Thank you, Kristen. I have to say that uh the four reports were a pleasure to read and it's nice to read uh the patrimony uh the heritage patrimony of our beautiful little town. Um I uh I understand from the reports that you didn't have an opportunity to have a site visit for three of those properties and that the report that we have before us are drafts that would need to be finalized with u proper follow-up site visits to complete the report in their accuracy. Um, but I have to say it was a pleasure and I know that Oakville is second to none when it comes to its uh standard of uh heritage preservation. So, I'm happy to see that we're continuing this lovely tradition. Um, are there any [clears throat] questions of Kristen uh before we uh attend to the delegates that want to speak to this item? >> Carrie, go ahead. >> Uh, so thank you. Um just to confirm then so the reason that we're bringing them towards council to the committee today uh is simply because of the January one deadline because typically obviously we don't proceed without having site visits etc etc >> through you madam chair yes that is correct uh the legislated timeline we wanted to make sure or we decided it might be best to move these priority properties to committee so that it was starting within the legislated deadline time frame. Um, as you know, normally these site visits are conducted before we bring it to committee. Um, but it bringing it to committee does not prohibit staff from working with property owners and working on those details before taking to council. Um, as you see in the package, the the notices of intention to designate are in draft form and that's what finally makes up the bylaw. So we felt it work it would be all right in this case just because of that deadline and that the committee there's no we don't have to move forward at like a to the exact next council meeting we can still work with property owners if that makes sense. Thanks. >> Thank you Carrie. Um to follow up on that, I guess, or just to confirm, notices um or communication was um started to in order to proceed with site visits to all of the homeowners >> through you, Madam Chair. Yes, that's correct. Some earlier than others. Um but we did send around draft reports again in the summer of this year. Yes. >> So, it's not as though staff proceeded without giving notice that uh they wish to have a site meeting. So, it just didn't didn't occur. >> That's correct. >> Uh in a timely fashion before these reports were presented, these drafts. Okay. Any other questions of uh Kristen? >> Okay. I think we can proceed with our delegates. Our delegate number one is um Celeste Corass. Um a reminder that you have uh 10 minutes to speak. Please uh come to the front table and introduce yourself. No. Madame Secretary, uh, our clock. >> Thank you. Um, I am not a public speaker and I don't have a lot of experience doing it like Kristen does, so bear with me, please. Um, you can see my the title of my report. Um, the share report is heavily focused on my home's heritage value as an early representative example of vernacular Italian farmhouse [clears throat] as relates to the west, north, and south elevations of my historic two-story house. The key here is vernacular Italian farmhouse style and historic two-story house. How's that? >> Okay. So, shall I stand back a little? Can I restart my time, please? Um, so the keys here are vernacular Italian at farmhouse style and historic two-story house. Next slide, please. Um, I didn't understand the whole Italianate thing, so I asked Kristen um about it and she sent me three examples. The first was a direct link to Google Street View capture. Um that's the picture of the house I was given. Next slide please. This is the second um address of an Italian8 uh vernacular Italian8 style house completely different municipality. And thirdly [clears throat] um slide please. The 625 Hammond Street Road. there's there's nothing. So, um not very helpful and I don't know why, but I had to do my own research. Next slide, please. Uh the top you'll see a picture of from the Canadian farmer, which [clears throat] is uh the ID of the Italian style and below is my house. Let's start at the top. Um the hipped roof. Yes, correct. That is here. That's on the key attribute list. But the flat deck part is not there. That's quite iconic and it changes the outlook of the house. I believe there are no brick chimneys. Um such as the top photo. Uh no the tall narrow windows. I think my windows are just normal. I don't believe they're tall and there are no arch tops, no decorative hoods or moldings. And then along the the sides of the house, you'll see the coins. My house has none of that. Our house is a a plain house I think with fancy brackets covered in stucco well untested stucco. Um so I question is it really an example of an Italian ver uh vernacular style or has it just influences of the style? It has influences of the style but as you go back to the report it's heavily focused on the early representative example of vernacular Italian farmhouse. Next slide please. Um we tried to connect for site visit but it didn't work uh just due to timing. Um we received the report in the summer and then as we got to the date [clears throat] of today's date which I didn't understand the process so I thought it was November 23rd. Um I asked about okay let's try to get a site visit. Timing didn't work probably mostly because my schedule Kristen's was Tuesday and Thursday in the afternoon. So unfortunately it didn't work. Um but when I asked about the Italian 8 uh examples I saw you see the three I got and then at that date I that time which wasn't I think like 10 days ago I I got an email saying oh by the way here's a delegate form this is what the meeting is about and uh this is how we proceed and then don't worry this is just the first stop. So um you addressed or alluded to the fact that the report was not uh updated for a site visit. All recent photographic evidence is back from to 1972 and 1991. Um the only well of these points you've covered that they know that the report is not uh current but to say some of the comments um doesn't add any value to the report. Um anyways I think that's covered now. Next slide please um you can see a list of the attributes that are inur covered on the share report. Um I can go through them but we know that the share report is based on reports 54 and 35 years ago photographs. So like the external brick chimneys aren't there. They weren't there originally. The wrapped porch isn't there. The uh uh the window fenestration, we talked about that. Um oh, the one thing I did want to say is that unless I covered it because I am nervous in the uh picture of the Italian8 vernacular. Our house is so-called stucco. Um and in my research, I didn't see one Italian8 vernacular Italian8 style with stucco. Okay. So yes, um the draft the the attributes don't apply. They're in draft. It's kind of a waste of my time, but um this is an important process and I I do appreciate that some of the information was wrong about the turret being part of the 1920s edition. Again, as it says draft, we don't need to go through these. Um now, loss of landscape and contextual in integrity. Um the farm as you know has been completely uh subdivided and sold off. Um it was prior town approval that sold off our front yard. So our house is back to front. Um the back which has the historic original uh part of the house faces onto a backyard which is on which has a large house on it which is on sixth line. So, um the the rest of the uh uh the 100 acre farm has been severed and subdivided. So, I would say our house is uh fun not functionally linked to the neighborhood. It's functionally isolated. You can't see any historic part of the house from the front driveway, which you you may have seen in some of those Google photographs. Um, next slide, please. That's that's our front yard. Oh, sorry. The original front yard. That is now our backyard. You can see I'm on the stone porch taking a picture of my neighbors. Um, next slide, please. So, here's the visibility or invisibility. These top two pictures are from the share and you can't really see the house from either Germorta Drive or Sixth Line. Um the circles are by planning department. I thought it was only fair to put a summer photograph in um also from the share report uh during the the picture during summertime where my house is totally invisible. And just a comment about those original gates from the uh the farm still being there. I don't believe those are a landmark. So, they could be removed at any time. So, I don't really believe it has uh any significance in the report. Next slide, please. Now, in terms of the history, um there is so much history to Oakville and I'm glad to be part of it, but I think in the share some of it is tenuous. Um, the Mccraanian Hegman families uh have never they it hasn't been proven that they built my house nor that they lived in my house. So proximity of land ownership doesn't equal um architectural association I believe and the Kent family undoubtedly they had a huge impact. Um the area is known as Kent Gardens. um not to us. We live in an area with a world-renowned university college. So, we believe we're in College Park, but I do understand that Kent Gardens is a small part of that. Um but um everything that the Kent family physically brought to the house, the original part, they've removed the um original more Italian porch and put something else in a stone porch. Um [clears throat] the their their windows, wooden windows are gone. Um the outuildings, barns, uh you can read the the overheads yourself. I believe their story is important, but I think it deserves to be more in uh a museum or a plaque or something, but not to be design to designate my house as their um what they've left. Um, and the the the report contains references like ancestry.ca and I recognize that that is included in all four of the reports for today's docket. I went through those. Um, I think they're a secondary source and I really don't believe they should be part like Facebook Sue uh Sue what her what's her Facebook photo is in here and I'm just thinking that reduces the um reduces the the believability of the report or the the importance of it. Sorry, that was um I've been keeping a timer here and that was 10 minutes. >> Okay, so just to sum up, I appreciate next uh next um the report that I got in um hard copy did not equal the one that you got online. There's an example there. Next slide, please. Um, imposing strict regulatory restrictions on a landlocked, completely hidden home creates an unfair fair liability for a private citizen without providing any visual or heritage benefit to the public. So, I request the committee reject the recommendation and request the council terminate the file and cancel the intention to delegate. Please. Um uh next please. Next please. There should be a next. Yes, there it is. So, uh the vinyl window. You can see the wooden balcony. Next, please. All our windows have been replaced with vinyl. That's from the non-wrapped balcony with the backyard, the house built in front, the historic part. And next, please. I'm going to have to just interject and I'll give you 30 seconds to just wrap up if if you'd like just to summarize. >> Yes. So I believe the um connection to the Kent family is important and the uh tenuous association with the Haggammen and the Mccrainy is important but I don't believe that it is important to our house and I don't and I think because you can't see it there is no his uh no anchor it's not an anchor and um I think Those are the three two. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Um, >> thank you for listening. Sorry about my >> Thank you, Miss Goras, for your presentation. Um, and and we are um very grateful that you took the time and the energy and the research to come to this committee and voice your concerns. Um, we understand that the draft proposal from staff is a is a draft and that there hasn't been an opportunity to do a proper site visit. Uh, regarding your um interpretation of Italian 8 architecture um when a type of architecture is brought to a town, a city, another country from its uh source of origin, it is u mannered in the vernacular. And so what may be an academic um style of Italianade architecture can be translated into a vernacular that right is removed from the original. I wanted to ask just out of curiosity um because there is a lot of um uh professional term there are a lot of professional terms uh in your report that I read. Did you did you go to a a heritage architect to assist you with uh your commentary? um two staff in the committee. >> I um did not uh because I uh I did the research myself. I did I've received the three examples from Kristen which were unhelpful. So I felt I had to do a d a deep dive and uh I learned a lot. I know so much about window fenestrations than any of my friends. And um as I say, I appreciate that my house is in the vernacular style, but I still think it's just a like a boxy house with some uh bedazzled things at the top. And um it can't be seen from the street either end. And uh yeah, well, thank you again, uh Miss Corass. We'll have a a go at it from this committee. Um any comments? Okay. And just thank you for the presentation. >> Small point. It's Ger Morta. Um, it was named after the Mortens, uh, Jerry and Barry. So, you have Germorta and B Morta drives on our streets. So, >> we were debating that this morning before the meeting. And some of us call it Gerorta and some of us call it Germorta. >> Yes. >> Well, thank you for that. >> Definitely based on Jerry Gerorta. Thank you. >> Well, there you go. I'm happy to hear that being a Jerry myself. [laughter] [gasps and sighs] Okay. Uh so let's uh any questions of the delegate actually uh from the committee members before we let you go? >> Any other questions? >> Any questions of the delegate? None. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Okay, let's confine it to the board and uh can I and if anyone has opinions on this matter? Yeah. No comments? None. Okay. I think I would uh just say that the process that has been outlined by Kristen will allow for a normal, let's call it a standard process with a full site visit uh perhaps um a revised report on the house uh and working with the homeowners. >> Yes. >> So, uh this is not do or die today for the homeowner. this is not a final decision that'll be coming back to committee uh once site visits have been completed etc. >> Yeah, thank you Carrie. Yes, uh we're all aware that this was a draft report and it was uh um brought forward as a draft because of bill 23 and the urgency of the January 2027 deadline. Um, so I think we're all aware of that that uh the final process would incorporate a much uh more rigorous um uh deep dive into the history, the architecture uh with the proper site visits and the proper photographs uh to be seen. But uh that the necessity of bringing it forward for our bill uh 23 deadline uh was important and it needed to be done. So um that's why we're here today and to hear from both sides. very very helpful to hear from the owner's side as well. So we have a second delegation for the uh Evergreen Lodge at 509 Lakeshore Road. We have Dell Lankan here. A little technical issue. We're just going to hold for a moment until we get this little issue resolved with the cameras. Thank you for your patience everyone. It's okay. Are we ready, Madam Secretary? >> Okay, Mr. Lankan. Yes, please begin. Introduce yourself. >> Good morning. My name is Dell Langum. Uh my husband and I, Peter, bought the house in 2013. uh we didn't move in for three years because that's how long it took us to renovate the home and bring it back to the way it looks today. when we bought the things that were mentioned about what made it special. Um where were where all the um the design the original designs around the uh the barge board they call it on the gables all the cornises that were put up all of that was built by my husband. It was never there to begin with. If you look at the original picture, um the the um barn board, yes, it was, but there were three of them, one at the front and one on each side of the home at the gables, but it was so destroyed that my husband again remade them all. So, they're not original. Um the porch, the front porch when we bought the home was basically falling down. It had sunk about a foot, was in terrible shape. that has been all rebuilt by my husband, raised, fixed. So that's not the original porch, the front door. And they talked about the windows around the door. I have a picture here if you want to show it. Um, of the original door, which was wooden and not very attractive around it. We were the ones that put in the whole glass thing that fit right into the original form of the front door. So that was our we did that. Um but when we bought the home, it was completely covered in paint. It had been painted a blue, gray, and ivy all over the home. And at while we were waiting for permits to come in, that was the one thing they allowed us to do to bring someone in and removed all the paint and all the ivy and bring it back to its wonderful I think less to sheer brick color. So that was not there when we bought the home and that was the condition it was in. So we brought that back. We also uh all the windows which we did put in as wooden windows because we knew historically it should be. We put those all in. We also because of changes we made in at at inside the home. Some of the windows had been moved around to change to suit what was being happening to the house inside. Again, we write to be had them rebuilt exactly the way they were, designs over top of them. So, we tried to reproduce what we felt was what the original house had looked like. Um, in the photograph um, no, it's not showing up. Okay. in the photograph. That's the front of the home. You can see above that was a summer porch which was in rather terrible shape. Um and it went around to the side of the home also. Um that was not in the original house either. That was just an empty space in there. We uh got rid of it because it was only a summer thing and it was unusable the condition it was in. and we built it and made it into indoor living space which was winterized. And we also were the ones that put all the fancy shingles on the front of it, all the cornises underneath the eaves. Um, again, we did that. That was not part of the house. I guess the point I'm trying to make is all the things that you mentioned that you liked in the report were all things that we had done. So it's a bit like you know a Lincoln. The handle's been replaced and the top's been replaced but they're still calling it a Lincoln. And what I'm saying to you is what you liked and the points that you brought up that made it why you wanted it to be historically listed were all things that we had done to the home, things that weren't there to begin with. So there's except for all the bricks, um there's not much left on that house that actually was belonged to it. It had all been replaced and fixed up by us. So my question is I know who we were told some of the history when we bought the home. Um our neighbors next door to us at the time told us quite a bit of history. Mr. Baitman who owned the home before us uh informed us a lot just out of curiosity. Um but I feel and and I appreciate the history of it. I we that's why we bought it. We loved it. We love the location. We love the history of the home, the design of the home, and uh but I'll tell you now, and I'd like this to be answered by one of them. If this home, and again, it's only listed on two sides of the house. The back's been excluded because of the work that had been done outside around it. So, it was the side and the front of the house that was brought up. And those are the things that even the front porch we changed completely. We opened up the whole side here. Let's see if I've got a picture to show you. Yeah, that's the side the side in front the east side in front of the home looking toward Lake Shore. As you can see the entrance, you had to walk all the way around. We opened that whole side entrance up so that you could enter the front porch from the driveway. Um, we got rid of all those railings which were in pretty the whole house had been, I'm afraid to say, neglected. And you can see how on the top there, how that summer veranda went right around the house. We enclosed all that in, made different rooms, walk-in closets in that space because it was used. It wasn't livable unless we spent a lot of money to fix it up and it wasn't worth it. There's a few things that have happened in the I remember the lady coming when my husband was there and having a look around the home and asking questions and then we sort of forgot about it, but a few things have happened to me in the last couple of years. One, my husband passed away. Secondly, I've had major heart problems and so I've neglected to have this ready. and the letter telling me about the meeting this morning. I received in the mail yesterday, but it was too late by the time I read it to phone anyone. But I'm here maybe not quite as prepared as I would have liked to have been. But I'd like to question whether half a house is worth having this this um title put on it. So my question to the panel is if the house is listed ex exteriorwise historical how does that affect the property? How does that affect the price? How does that pro how does that um change trying to sell your home and and because I will be I'm on my own now. It's a big house and I'm planning to sell it. Um, but how does that affect the people looking at it and wanting to buy it? How do these restrict are there restrictions and what they're allowed to do on the exterior of the house? So, I would like that answered, please. Thank you. [clears throat] Thank you, Miss Corass. I just um wanted to let you know that you have a minute and 55 seconds left. >> I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing. Oh, there's uh you have a minute and 49 seconds left in your delegation. >> Well, I'm just I'm hoping, you know, because being on my own now, it's it's in I've had to make all the decisions. I'm hoping that you will understand my point of view about the fact there's very little except for the bricks that's left to the original home. Um that's all I can say. It's going to it's really going to be it's going to be important if when I hear back about how this is affecting my selling and living in the home. That is most important to me is finding out that. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Miss Corass. >> Oh, this is Miss Lankin. That's right. My apologies. Um well, it I have to say that um it is commendable that you and your husband have taken such care to restore um the heritage attributes of this house uh from the early pictures to what there is now. The trim work is uh is lovely and detailed and it obviously was done with love and care and um a regard for the history of the place. Um and regarding facades, I would leave it to staff to answer the reasons why one one facade of the house is more notable than the other. Usually it's the front facade of the house, the area where the public experiences um the attributes of the home uh relative to the public space and how that whole uh heritage element of the house affects the community and the built form to to relegate the to discuss the story of the founding of our town and the history of our town. Um, but I do want to open it up to our committee to see if um there are any questions that they would like to address to you while we have you on the on the stand. Does anyone have any questions for Miss Lankin? No. Okay. So, we uh >> am I going to get any answer on my question about how it affects what you can do to the property? Um the mandate of this committee is to look at the heritage attributes of built form and landscaping form in Oakville in order to carry forward and to keep the patrimony um the heritage patrimony alive for the next generations. We don't really deal with um finances but there are there have been quite a few reports written that staff can certainly um give to you um you know in the question periods um regarding uh I think there was a study done by the University of Wateroo that showed that the property values um were actually uh increased when there is a heritage component in a district. And then and a really quick quick example would be if the house if if a particular house that is not in a heritage district were anywhere else in the town, it's resale value would be a lot less. So just by being in a heritage district, your the val your real estate value of your property is much more than if it weren't in a heritage district. So this is in very crude uh rudimentary uh forms but the there are studies done to uh to speak to um real estate values and heritage uh heritage properties. Now I don't know Madam Secretary is this an opportunity uh do we have an opportunity to ask staff to weigh in at this point? >> I'm sorry I can't I'm already I'm sorry my hearing is not the best. So, am I allowed to ask them something? Is that what you said? >> Yeah, I'm asking, Madam Secretary, if if we have a a protocol to do this. >> Yes, there is an opportunity if staff wishes to speak to the questions. >> Sorry. uh through you, Madam Chair. Just to clarify, uh the question is about um like the the heritage attributes and how that homeowners would be working with them in the future if it was designated. Is that is that correct? >> Well, there there were two questions. One was um the reason that one or two facades would be the important ones for designation >> and the other one was um how property values uh are affected >> if it is designated and if there are studies that you can refer to. >> Okay. Uh so three, Madam Chair, kind of to build on what you said about the the facades and how we um pick certain or choose certain elevations for potential designation or elements of those uh elevations. One attri one component is the streetscape, the element that the community sees as well. And sometimes often we don't include the rear because we also are considering that future homeowners may want to create like add additions or expand on the house and we don't want a heritage designation to limit potential opportunities for growth. And so that is another reason why often elevations um that have elements we look to protect are the ones facing the street or elevations you can see from the street. Uh in this case there were elements of note on the southeast and I think the bay window on the west elevation. Uh again not the entirety like the entirety would be the massing of the house for example the historic massing uh and then from there particular elements on each elevation. So the south elevation we had certain items flag certain uh attributes flagged but we didn't include for example the covered porch on top as we knew that that was not uh a historic element as well. Um in terms of those attributes moving forward for future homeowners uh you know and property value staff can't necessarily speak to the housing market in terms of heritage properties. Uh there are as uh the chair noted there are studies that have been done on heritage value. They do most of them focus on districts but there was one that was published last year about individual properties and staff are happy to share that information with the owner after this meeting as well. Um, and there is a process that homeowners go through when they have a designated heritage property. If they wanted to do any work that impacts the specific listed heritage attributes in the designation bylaw, uh, it's our heritage permit process. It's no cost. Uh, it works with they work with just staff or committee depending on the application. And again, that information we're happy to share with owner in more detail after today. >> Thank you, Kristen. I see we have a question from Bob. >> My question really is I have to leave in about five minutes and uh knowing that we're very close to uh a quorum. I'd like to propose that we put all of these uh uh draft reports forward for further study by the uh staff. Uh, so just wanted to do that. >> Thank you, Bob. I think that's something that we um can discuss. Um, thank you, Miss Lankan, for your presentation and uh confined to the to the to the board to the committee. I guess any comments and questions? Bob put forth uh a recommendation to um have the four items uh taken back um for review, but I think we have two that um are in in good shape to move forward. So, um what we can do is um we can have a supplemental motion to um to refer back two of the properties that have come forward today with delegation and to do some further exploration with um a more uh an actual site visit and more detailed work. >> Sorry. Uh question to Kristen for those other two properties. I think you've had some discussion perhaps with 46 cameo. Uh what about the one on fourth line >> through you madam chair? Uh we have not heard from the owners of 425 fourth line um despite staff attempts over the year. So we would still aim to try to reach out to them somehow before moving it forward. Let's Madam Secretary, we just need a moment to have uh staff a little moment. So, the motion brought forward is to defer all four uh back to staff for further review and that staff report back with additional information. Yep. So, can we have a motion to that effect? Who would like to move? Carrie. So, um, Madame Secretary, we have a supplemental motion to refer, uh, that the report regarding the notice of intention to designate the four properties be referred back to staff for further review and that staff report back with additional information. We have a a question of timing for this. We have a deadline of January 2027. Can this be feasibly done before that time? >> Uh through you, Madam Chair, we [clears throat] have an opportunity to uh appear before council and committee before the end of the year and that January 1 deadline. >> Okay. So it can be done. All right. So we have a motion on the table. Moved by carry. All in favor of that motion. Okay. That motion is uh passed. Madam Secretary, do you need a um a breakdown of that motion or you've got that? Okay. Very good. Well, we look forward to um to it being brought back and we look forward to uh the the the positive participation of both teams and it's nice to see that both the delegates here today have a deep uh connect with the history and uh that do have a love of the heritage of their home and if we can work together to preserve that for the future generations I think it's a win-win for both the owners and uh the future generations of Oakville and Heritage Oakville. here. So, I thank you both for coming today to present and I thank staff for the uh really good uh draft reports uh presented to date. Okay. So, I think we uh see how we're doing here. So, any applicant so that motion is carried. Any applicant or member of the public wishing to speak further regarding an item on the Heritage Oakville Advisory Committee agenda for today um may register to delegate to the Planning and Development Council at its meeting on December 7th at 6:30 p.m. when the recommendations from today's meeting will go forward for final consideration by council. Since we have a referral, it's a it's a moot point on that one. Um there are no information items today from staff. Okay. Uh the date and time of next meeting is December 15, 2026 uh in the council chambers at 9:30 a.m. And finally, um well, before we adjourn, I'd like to uh take a moment to thank the counselors. I know we have a change uh at council and and I'd like to take a moment to thank councelor Longo and councelor Mcnes for their support on this committee. We've really appreciated your input. It's been invaluable for us and uh we look forward to uh um seeing you again and if not to the continued support of members of council for this committee. It's been a pleasure and I speak on behalf of all the committee members. So, thank you for your for your time and your support. >> Thank you. Our pleasure. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> December 7th and December 15th. >> Uh yes. Um Madame Secretary can go over them uh for you. >> Yes, we can discuss with staff after the meeting about those dates. >> Okay. Uh now we're going to adjourn this meeting. May I have a motion that this meeting be adjourned? Bob. Bill. [laughter] Okay. Moved by Bill that this meeting is adjourned. Thank you everyone uh for a very interesting meeting today. We look forward to a a wholesome report next time and um um have a great rest of the month.