three. One, two, three. Okay, thanks Karen. It looks like we're live on YouTube now, so we can get started. >> Okay, thank you. [clears throat] Welcome committee and guests. Um members of the public are advised that individuals and the media may be audibly and/or visually recording this meeting and please note that while the meeting is open to the public for observation, any member of the public wishing to provide comment on any of the agenda items are encouraing to provide comment on any of the agenda items are encouraged to contact cultural heritage planning staff or may choose to give a delegation directly to the Hamilton Municipal Heritage Committee. I would like to call this meeting of the heritage permit review subcommittee August 18th, 2026 to order. And please note that quorum is present. All right. So you have before you the agenda for this meeting. May I have a motion to approve the agenda as presented? See Sandra and I see Andy. Okay. And is there anyone opposed? Okay, seeing none, that motion is carried. Are there any declarations of interest today? No declarations. And also, um, Matthew, you're since your camera's not on, if you do want to speak, please um, indicate by raising your hand electronically. That would be helpful. Okay. Um, so I see no declarations of interest declared today. uh approval of the minutes of the previous meeting. So uh you have before you minutes HPRC 26 007 July 14th 2026. Um I would like to comment Oh, go ahead Sandra. Yes. Oh, you're you are going to Okay. I would just like to comment that uh Sandra's name is spelled incorrectly throughout the minutes. It's an a r at the end, not e r. So, uh, anybody who's writing up minutes going forward, pay attention. Make sure we document these things correctly. Um, other than that, may I have a motion to approve the minutes as presented. Sandra, and I see Graham. And, uh, is there anyone opposed? Seeing none. So that motion is carried. So onto the herd of permit [snorts] applications for this evening. So that's under section six of your agenda. So um I assume Lisa, we're moving ahead with the agenda as it's written at this point. So the first application is uh HP 2026-23 pertaining to 295 Bay Street South in Hamilton which is the Durand Markland uh heritage conservation district. It's it's within the heritage conservation district. So it's part four five property and the application is for removal of five trees along the public right of way. Is the application a representative of the application here to speak to the application this afternoon? >> Hi Karen, I'll be speaking to the application. >> Okay. Um, is there anything you'd like to add then to the very simple summary I gave, Lisa? >> Uh, no. Just want to flag that this was a request from forestry. Um, so these are trees that are lowhanging and they impede pedestrian and traffic. Um, so the trees aren't specifically dead, but they are impeding um safety and uh traffic, so we'll need to remove them. >> Okay. Are there any questions from the committee? Okay, I have no Oh, Graeme, please go ahead. >> Yeah, just a standard. I didn't I just want to make sure, are they replacing these trees with the correct species? Um, I can pull up the photos. Um, but there are several layers of trees in this area. Um, so they're removing five of the ones that are on the most outer edge and there will still be a barrier in in between. So, um, it's just that the property owner had planted quite a few uh trees in there and now they're overcrowding. >> Thank you. Okay, any other questions? comments. All right. Um, may I see the proposed conditions, please? Okay. And so, these are the two standard conditions, any changes um to be submitted uh prior to commencing any alterations, and that there's two years from now until the expiry. Um, Lisa, are we still keeping the two-year expiry or are we going to move to the three-year? Can't recall what she said. >> Um, we are looking to move to a three-year expiry as part of our procedural bylaw updates, but until that goes through, we're sticking typically with our standard two-year unless the project uh deems necessary. >> Okay, thank you for that. All right. Uh, so may I have a mover and a secondary to recommend approval of heritage permit HP 20226023 subject to these staff recommended conditions? I see Andy and I see Matthew. Is there anyone opposed? Okay, seeing none, that motion is carried. Thank you. Okay. Um, so item 6.2 on the agenda this evening, uh, it's permit number HA 2026001, which is property 286 Victoria Avenue North in Hamilton, which is the baby's dispensary guild, and that is not designation. It's a municipal heritage easement agreement. And um, do we have Okay. Uh, sorry. The application [clears throat] is for replacement of the HVAC system, including penetrations along the side of the building for ventilation and installation of new utility meters and associated openings. Now, please note that this heritage permit is for retroactive approval as the work has already been completed by the applicant. Uh, do we have a representative of the application here this evening? Like to speak, add any further um details and take questions from the committee. Uh Lisa, >> hi Karen. I believe it's one of the uh phone numbers. >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. Yes, I can hear you. Yes. >> Yeah, I'm here. Um uh thank you Lisa for talking about that. And uh we have the permit to do the HVAC from inside which requires venting to the exterior of the wall. There's no big penetration just a few pipe sticking out and probably a air conditioner going on one die and that nothing else nothing change in the front. The front will change the front door and other than that there's no other penetration from on the side and front other than the back. >> Okay, thank you. And is this could you introduce yourself as well please? >> I am Michael Tal. I'm the project manager for the owner there. >> Okay. Thank you, Michael. >> You're welcome. >> Okay. So, are there any questions from the committee for Mr. Khil? Uh I see Graham. Please go ahead, Graeme. >> Yeah, I'm just uh trying to figure out how big these penetrations were for ventilation because uh we just mentioned that it was just for piping for the Hback and ventilation is a different kind of word. different meaning. >> It is the H. It is the venting for the water heater and the HV which is like a 2 in pipe. >> Oh, so that's the only size in the 2 in. Okay. >> Correct. That's just a 2in pipe coming out of the wall. >> And is it the very back? >> There is at the back the back is the venting. The side is the the the white pipe. that is a 2in pipe coming out when you on the on the what is that on the east side east I'm not familiar with which one you can tell in there >> on the north side I think >> so I'm sure is Lisa's put the south facade on the screen that we can see maybe you're not able to see it is that the area that the holes went through >> hi >> on the parking lot side is where the hole went through Yeah. So, through the chair there there were openings on this side here where the the new utility was open uh installed. Uh so there's four new openings in the brick and there's one down below. Um and then there was bathroom ventilation on the north facade. So these two openings here um where vents will be put in. >> And then most of the other utilities are going through the east facade uh which is not protected by the heritage conservation easement agreement. >> Okay. It would have been nice if we would have had this before it was completed. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. Um, okay. Are there any further questions or comments from the committee? Okay. I don't see any and I don't have anything to add. So um as this is retroactively a retroactive approval um there's no conditions uh recommended as it's already been completed and so may I have a mover in a secondary to recommend I guess approval of this retroactive approval of this heritage permit HA 2026001 mover and seconder Andy and Steve. Thank you. And uh is there anyone opposed? Okay. Seeing none, that motion is carried. Okay. Um I believe that Mr. Khalil, you are our next applicant as well for the next um item. So stick around, please. Um, so this next item 6.3 is HA 2026002 pertaining to 286 Victoria Avenue North, the Hamilton uh, Babies Dispensary Guild, same building which is under the municipal heritage easement agreement. And the application is for replacement of the existing front door, including installation of two doors with glazing inserts painted to match the existing door. So, um, is there anything you'd like to add to that description, Mr. Khil, before we have any questions or comments? >> Uh, no, the existing door. So, we are replacing matches what the the new door we areing matches the existing door and we are putting a glass insert to mimic what is already there. It is broken now is blocked up by a plywood. We're trying to replace it. That's all I have. Okay. >> All right. Oh. Um, okay. So, I think I see Sandra. Do you have your hand up, Sandra? >> I do. >> Okay. Please go ahead. >> Uh, yes. So, I I I had a look at the uh the photos that were provided. Uh, and I had a question about the proportions of the replacement door do not match uh the original door. Can you explain why that happened? And uh if I if I'm misreading the photos that were shared, >> that is just a photo that is taken not to scale that what is there is a double door. That photo is there exactly fit to that opening. We are not increasing the size of the opening. We take the double door out. We are installing the same double door. The photo is just not proportional, not to scale. That's what it is. So, are you able to provide a photo that is to scale so that we can compare the before and after? >> I mean, the brick is there. I can't even find the brick to replace that brick. So, I can look at the window out. I can look at the wall out. I'm just The guys are measuring it. They measured it. They just taking that out and putting these things. That's all we have to do. We don't do any alteration to the fac. >> I I don't think I was implying that. Uh I think the question I was asking is can you provide an accurate photo that shows the before and after? >> Um >> yeah when I am done yeah I'm done. Yeah for sure. >> Hi Karen. Do you mind if I jump in? >> Please go ahead. Yeah sure. Thank you Lisa. >> Um so this this permit's not retroactive. This is work that he'd like to do on the building. So the the proposed um photo is just simply an example of what he's proposing to put in there. um the opening will stay the same and the dimensions will fit the existing opening. Um so he doesn't exactly have a before and after at this point um because he is getting full um prior approval before installing this one. >> Okay. So it's a proposal. The f the photo that is there is a proposal. >> Yeah, it's mostly just for the design. >> Okay. So, I'd like to I'd like to ask uh if we can see the entire building with your proposed uh door, please at the right scale. >> Just as a >> Sorry, I'm not asking that question. >> Sandre, are you asking as a drawing before it's um Is that what you're asking for? >> Um a photo a photo of the picture. A photo of the proposed door was provided. Yes. >> Well, yeah, but that's just to give you an idea of the, you know, that there's glass in the middle and there's, you know, metal on the outside. But so you're asking for, you would like like an actual dimensions drawing of the proposal with the new Dorian. Is that what you're saying? >> Uh, yeah. Perhaps a shop drawing. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Any any door company can provide you with that. The shop drawing is just a dimension drawing. It won't show you exactly what the photo looks like unless the door is manufactured. That's what it is. That door is specially made and once it is there, we have to mimic the color and the paint. I can only do it once install. >> Um and actually, okay. So I believe if you see the conditions um the final details and specs will be submitted to city staff the heritage staff um prior to final approval of this if so it's either I guess a choice of do we need to come back to this committee or are we comfortable with um leaving it in in this heritage staff's hands to make sure that it is actually you know basically identical to what is currently being replaced. is that just just to make this clear [clears throat] and we are in the final stage of finishing what is inside. We have a security issue in that area. We are in the stage that we're really rushing to change the door. I don't think we have uh time to go to the next hearing again. Really, you need exception here. >> [clears throat] >> I mean, if it's if it's in the um if it's in the uh conditions, then I would be comfortable. How does the rest of the committee feel about that? >> I just got a a question I wanted to ask before we get into that far. >> Okay. Um sure. Okay. We'll set this aside. Graham, please. Uh you can ask your question. >> Did you expect how badly damaged is this door? or is it beyond repair? That's the first thing. >> First of all, that door is rotten up. It is broken down with the pandalism and they all went inside and we stole our $80,000 worth of uh elevator equipment. There's always breakins and breakins. We're trying to do glass to mimic what is there, which we're supposed to do. Still go there and knock it up because it get broken every day. Probably the best solution is maybe heritage can insure that for us and we can do it the right way and leave it there. We see what happen every day there is a break in there. I found you homeless in that house. I can't even >> I just want to say want to ask that question. So I'm I am comfortable if that's the the style of door that you were going to order and it's just going to be scaled down to fit. I don't really have a problem with going to staff to say >> let them do it. >> That's exactly what it is. We we try I went through with like I tried so many things. First I thought I'm going to do steel door when I realized that it's heritage then we mimic it and try to make it good look what is there and we even take the chance to mimic it with the glass again to give it the same look which technically we shouldn't do glass there to be honest with you. It's ridiculous what is going on down there. Um, are there any questions from anyone else in the committee? Okay. I have a question. Just the glass that you're replacing that you are putting in the new doors. Is there some special strong glass that is resistant to breaking? >> There's no There's no glass that resist breaking. Any any glass can be broken. They just need one hammer. See you later. You know the way they break is it different but there's no blood that can resist breaking there's no break there right there. >> Yeah. >> Unless maybe you know what I mean. I'm just doing it a little bit of glass that they don't see through just to mimic what is there. I'm very heritage oriented. You know the company does. So we're trying to accommodate what is there. That's all about it. >> I'm going to jump in here. I' I'd like to see the hardware that's on that original door. I don't see it in the proposal. Um, are you suggesting that the hardware will be the same? >> To be honest with you, I don't even know what hardware was there. When we bought the building, the door is already smashed out. No, the hardware there unless you tell me what hardware you want, I can put it there. No problem there. >> It's your photo that's in the report, right? Whose photo is that? >> Yeah. Yeah. But there there is no hardware there. just uh the door is broken up. You can see it on the photo. It's covered with the plywood. >> If you look at the caption on the one picture that shows a hard wire, it says Google Street View. >> That's fine. If the hard is there, there's no issue there. I can replace that hardware. No problem. Whatever you guys want. No issue there. That's easy to do. >> So, is this a wood door that's going to be replaced or it's a What kind of a door is it? It's a woodlook door. Fiberglass woodl looking door. Stronger insulated door. I cannot put a solid door. Then it's going to rot again. So this one looks like fiberglass but inflated. You can't tell the difference. Okay. So, it sounds like the committee is is um concerned that it be a sympathetic design in terms of what the look is and the the hardware and all. And so, is there something we can Well, I guess that's sort of part of the condition. I guess we could build that into the condition, Lisa. >> Uh yes, we could do that. Um the other thing I just wanted to flag through the chair is that only the opening is actually protected. The doors themselves are not um so while they are replacing them, they're not original features um or at least weren't deemed protected under the HCA. Um so we want to imitate the style, but the wood door itself is not is not a protected uh element. Just flagging that and clarifying that. Um but we can build it into the condition um that's there already. Um I believe we looked for the we were looking for the final details and uh materials to be submitted details and specs to be submitted. >> So as part of that we could look for a different material we could work with the owner. >> And uh do you consider the color as well as part of the specifications? Uh, not specifically, but the color presently matches um the kind of brick tone color >> um that's surrounding it. So, I I think a brown would be reasonable um brownish red. >> Yeah. >> Which I think is what uh Michael had indicated in his proposal as well. >> Okay. All right. Are there any further questions from the committee? I'm just really curious now. What's this building going to be used for when you're complete? >> It's going to be a medical. >> Okay. So, do you have another entrance to this building besides that front door? >> There is uh a tight internal you can see on the side on the parking lot side. I'm going to do that. Um that basement is not finished yet. We are just renovating inside and at the back there there's a tech that we are doing which is nothing to do with heritage. >> Yeah. Can I just think how you're going to fit with OD8 like the material disabilities act again? >> Well your your door is very narrow and you haven't got a ramp. There is there is a ramp at the back and there is a ramp on the bike. >> Okay. So, you do have an accessible entrance. Okay. >> Oh, yeah. There is at the back there too. >> Okay. Just wanted to make sure you wouldn't be coming back to us. Replace your door to comply. >> That's that wouldn't go to us though, Graham. Right. >> Well, no, but I have to come back to replace your door again. I always like to mention stuff like that. That's why I was just kind of curious. I didn't see another entrance. Yeah, >> that's a very narrow door going in. >> Go up, but it goes on the side. There is a ramp and there's another door on the side. >> Yeah. And we can actually see that in the photographs. >> I can see the ramp, but you don't know what it's going to. That's why we just I better ask the questions. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, appreciate that. Okay. And Sandre, did you have another question or your hand is still up? Wasn't sure. No, I have another question. >> Okay. >> The question is, are are the doors the same size or is one larger than the other? >> The doors are exactly the same double door. >> The the photo that has been uh shared as as part of the summary, the door, the interior door [clears throat] make and what I see is that the left side is larger than the right side. Are they equal in size or is can you confirm that please? Yeah, that is that matters though. If it is one larger the one smaller, it should be the same size that as far as I'm concerned. >> Yeah, if you look at the interior photograph, not the exterior so much. If you look at the interior photograph with the push bar, the one on the left is wider than the one on the right. >> That is to show where the track Yeah. out. I'm very proud of that. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Um is there any further comments or questions, Mr. Kill? >> All right. >> So, we have seen the um we have actually uh Kira, could you please put up the conditions? >> Thank you. So we have here the two standard conditions the bottom two and then that the final details and specifications for the proposed door be submitted to the satisfaction and approval of the director of planning and chief planner and heritage staff for part of that. So, um, do I have a mover in a seconder then to, um, approve, uh, recommend approval of HP 202622? Oh, sorry. No, sorry. HA 2026002 uh, subject to these proposed conditions. Mover and a seconder. See Graham and I see Angie. All right. Thank you. And um is there anyone opposed? All right, seeing none, that motion is carried. Thank you. Okay, so um thank you for joining us, Mr. Khalil, and um heritage staff will be in discussions with you on next steps and appreciate you. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay. All right. Good luck. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, moving on to item 6.4 on our agenda, HP 20226022, uh, which is pertaining to 252 James Street South in Hamilton, known as the Griffith's Palatial Home. This is a part four property and the application is for repairs to the existing concrete front steps of the building and removal and replacement of the existing interlocking pavers with a sloped concrete pad. Um, do we have an applicant or representative of the applicant here to speak to the uh application this evening? >> Yeah, I'm here. I'm the owner of 252 James Street South. >> Okay. Welcome, Mr. Lou. Um, thank you. >> Okay. Is there anything you would like to add to the brief description I gave um before we go for questions or comments on? >> Uh, no. It's fairly straightforward. I think it's very simple project. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, so you've all seen the background information committee. Uh, are there any questions or comments that you have for Mr. Lou? >> Uh, okay. So, Graeme, please go ahead. >> Okay. It only deals with the steps. Are they like old original steps or have they been replacement? Like, are they actually a stone or they uh concrete? >> No, they're they're concrete. They've been repaired many times. So, it's not original. >> Okay. That's all my be my only concern. favors. You can do what you want with I don't care. >> All right. >> Okay. Just if those were stone, I wanted to kind of protect them, but if been multiple repairs. >> No, they're not. They're not. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Is there anyone else feel any comments or questions? All right. And from um then just a comment from me. From what I understand, nothing outside of the stairs will be like none of the supporting uh columns or anything will be impacted, right? >> No, we're doing we're basically repairing what it is there now. So, we're just resurfacing this the steps. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. And Yeah. All right. Any nothing else from the committee then? Oh, Graeme, go ahead, please. >> So, you're not going to tear them right out and replace them. You're just going to patch them up again? >> We're going to break the top about 3 in of the surface and then pour concrete. >> Oh, okay. So, more than just a patch. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. I'm glad you came to us ahead of doing the work this time. Really appreciate that. Thanks. >> Welcome. Thank you. >> Um, Matthew, did I see your hand up? >> Um, you know what? I had my question answered. I I was just curious about whether it was a structure this was an issue of cosmetics or a structural uh issue. So I think I have that uh that answer. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, it's cosmetic. >> Okay. Okay. Um All right, then. If there's no further questions, Sandre, your hand is still up. Do you want that up or down? No questions. Okay. All right. Um Okay. Um may I then have or may we see the proposed conditions, please, Kira? So, they are the two standard conditions. any changes will come back for approval prior to the commitments commencement of the alterations and um it'll be two years expiry date on this application. So may have a mover in a secondary to recommend approval of heritage permit 202622. I see Sandra and I see Graham. Okay, thank you. And is there anyone opposed? >> Okay, I see none. That motion is carried. >> Okay, thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks everybody. >> Thank you for coming in, Kevin. And um yeah, city staff will I heard staff will follow up on next steps with you. Okay, thank you very much. >> Okay, take care. >> Good night. Bye. Okay. Our next application this evening is HP uh item 6.5 HP 2026 021 398 Wilson Street East Ancaster uh entitled the Mar House which is a part four property. And so this [clears throat] is quite an extensive uh application. I will read it for you what is proposed consolidation stabilization of the Mar house in situ. So, where it stands right now is where work will be done to stabilize it. Uh, removal of the existing rear edition, relocation of the MAR house from 398 Wilson Street East to 17 Academy Street, which is around the corner, including structure to be lifted onto steel framing in one piece, structure to travel on a newly built path within the existing parcel land and access the 17 Academy parcel from the rear. structure to be placed and consolidated on a new concrete foundation and restoration and alterations to the MAR house once located at 17 Academy Street, including minor masonry repairs to the entire structure as needed. Installation of new exhaust vents on the roof. Uh installation of new exhaust opening on west elevation in the relocated orientation. So, the building is being turned uh 90° and installation of four new basement window openings on east and west elevations in the relocated orientation and construction of a new one-story rear edition end deck to be finished in Cream Stuckco. So, do we have a representative of this application here this evening? >> Good afternoon, members of committee. My name is Matt Johnston, a registered professional planner with Urban Solutions here on behalf of both the owners of the Wilson Street Lands as well as 17 Academy. >> Great. Thank you for joining us. Um, do you have anything you'd like to Okay, it looks like you have a presentation you'd like to give. Um, if that's the case, we normally ask that you try and keep it brief. Um, I'm not sure what you had in mind, how many slides you have. >> Certainly. Thank you. Um, you know, the intent of the presentation is just to provide some additional context. Um, if you'd like to go through it in detail um, that's fine. Um, what I would conclude is that we've reviewed the proposed conditions of approval and uh, have no concerns and um, [clears throat] would be happy to have uh, those conditions applied as recommended by staff. >> Okay. So, I'm at the will of the committee if they'd like the detailed walkthrough. Um, it's about a 10page slide deck, give or take. Um, probably 3 4 minutes and I could roll through rather quick. >> That's fine. That's that would be fine. Please go ahead. Sure. Committee would appreciate it. >> Next slide. Lisa, you could skip the next as well. So here we have the subject lands for a residential development application uh mixeduse project uh highlighted in red. We have the proposed site at 17 academy highlighted in yellow and the Marfalippo house uh highlighted in green. Next slide. Uh, I'm sure there's there's uh some history with the Mar Fleo House that I'm sure you're familiar with. Um, built in 1850 designated under part four of the Ontario Heritage Act and um we'll go to the next slide. The mixeduse development application that I was referring to has now received final approval of the official plan and zoning bylaw amendment application necessary to accommodate the proposal. Incorporated with that is an existing heritage permit application that has been issued for the relocation of the Mar house to the rear of that property um actually onto Lauren Avenue and it would form an accessory structure to the condominium. So, that permit application has been approved and I'd say we're um probably about 80% of the way through the conditions of approval for that heritage permit. [sighs] Now, when the final uh if we go to the next slide, um the reason for the relocation of the MAR house is primarily related to uh subgrade contamination. So in order to remediate the site, the relocation of the MAR house has to occur. As I mentioned, the existing heritage permit application um accommodates the relocation to 17 MAR. Now, as we go to the next slide, please. Um over the course of the the existing heritage permit um there was restoration that has been completed to date. Uh most notably on the facade you see on the screen here there was some bulging at the bottom of the property. Uh that has been repointed and secured. And [snorts] we also have a number of documents. Building condition assessment, conservation plan, uh cultural heritage impact assessment, building relocation methodology and structural feasibility review. Those documents have all been prepared and approved by staff for the existing heritage permit application. And uh in keeping with your proposed conditions of approval would all be updated to reflect uh the proposed new location. Next slide. So it was really with the final planning approvals and discussions with uh councelor Casar that uh we explored other options rather than the existing heritage permit and that is where uh the developers for the mixeduse building uh came across Mr. Ian Bartles and his desire uh being a heritage enthusiast to um relocate the structure to 17 Academy as shown on the screen here. Uh next slide. Um as part of the uh the process um McCullik Building Moving Company has been uh retained to complete the move. Uh they're certainly a a well-versed um heritage um moving company and um we've got again conditions of approval with securities in place for a safe and stable move. Uh next slide we have uh just a little bit on Mr. Bartles um being a heritage heritage enthusiast that he is um has currently completed some work in Ancaster over at 44 Gardner Road East. Uh that's been really well received by the public and um it's uh it's nice that um this arrangement's been made as part of the um planning approvals uh on the final slide, Lisa. Um again there were the discussions with councelor Casar and staff on finding what would be thought to be a more suitable location than the existing heritage permit and and that is uh the new home proposed at 17 Academy Street. So, as part of the uh planning committee and council minutes, um the proponents made commitments to pursue this location and this application and submission processes in response to those commitments made uh earlier this year and um as I mentioned uh full support of the proposed conditions of approval and would be happy to answer any other questions. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. Um All right. So, are there any questions from the committee? Okay, we'll start a list. I see Graeme and then we'll Andy and uh if anyone else. So, Graham, please go ahead. >> Okay, there's there is a lot of areas of brick that has been done with wrong cement materials and you can see cracks and stuff. Not brick, sorry, uh stone. What is being done to secure that before it's being moved? [snorts] >> You're muted >> through the chair. The um there there was existing masonry work that was poorly done over the years. >> Oh yeah. >> Um more recently there was the the bulging on the one facade that I mentioned. Uh that required more immediate work. That work was carried out by uh qualified mason uh subsequently uh inspected by staff. Um Lisa is now showing a great picture of the the restored facade. Um and that work would continue through the balance of the uh the restoration, but most recently it was in response to some uh more immediate work that was required. >> Okay. Okay. So, that facade you're showing now, that's not in danger of any kind of collapse when they pick it up. >> No. And we've got the structural reports um that have been updated over the years. >> Okay, that's good. Uh now, where it looks like the window has been removed off that upper floor, is that going to be reestablished when it gets moved over? Is that up to the new owner? >> Um that is up to the new owner. >> Okay, fair enough. Well, blow the lever right there then. No sense harassing you about that. Uh I am very glad because I 100% oppose this building coming off Wilson and that Lauren Avenue location was a horrible place to put it be forgotten. It would be lost, probably vandalized. Now going at least on Academy, it's going to have a use. It's going to be seen and that's I think is pretty important. So I'm very happy to hear Mr. Bartles and that I didn't realize that property on Garner Road was his and I've stopped and admired it three or four times now. >> Okay. Thank you, Graham. Um we have a question from Andy. >> Uh yes, for the chair. Um just uh um clarity really. I see the picture now. There is a uh looks like there is dwelling on that blue area. What is that building? Is is there a structure there now where where um it's going to be located, where it's going to be moved to? >> That's right. There's an existing dwelling uh at 17 Academy. A demolition permit has been applied for. Uh so that's in sequence as well. And um the the Marfalo House would replace that dwelling on site. >> Okay. Thank you. And also uh through the chair, so that that's not a heritage building that's going to be torn down, I take it. the the one that's in the blue. >> Lisa, you can confirm that. Correct. >> It's not. >> Uh so through the chair, it's um not it doesn't have any heritage status. And when we were in talks um uh with the applicant initially, we did do an initial review of the building and determined that it didn't have much heritage value. Um so we were generally comfortable with the proposal to demolish and replace with the Maralippo house. >> Okay, great. Thank you. And just one more thing, when it's located over there, is the is the frontage going to be on Academy? Is that the idea for the placement of the villain? >> That's right. The front doors currently fronting on Wilson will will be uh oriented towards academy. >> Okay. Um Okay, great. I also like to mimic uh Graham's uh um comments regarding where it was initially going to go. It really is stuck in the back corner in the middle of nowhere. Kind of a dead end street on Lauren. And I agree with Grammo would be kind of lost. Um being on Academy, it'll be more uh upfront. So I think that's uh that's a much better location. And just curious the um the um work that has to be done on the original site that that building is going to be far enough that it's not going to be affected by the the digging and the um you know um the re remiteration of the sorry the um of the site itself. I know the building's got to move. They got to dig down deep. Um so it's going to be far enough away to not have any kind of vi vibration damage or anything like that from from that work. through the chair. That's right. And as part of the site plan conditions of approval, there are uh really checks and balances to ensure that um not just for the Filipo Mar house, but all all residential dwellings in immediate proximity are are not [snorts] damaged by any uh earthworks. >> Uh okay, great. Uh thank you very much. That's all I have. >> Okay, thank you Andy. Is there anything else from any other other committee members? Okay. I had a question and um I mean I was really pleased to see the um attachment from the moving company with the photographs of these buildings being moved. And these are successful moves that they've made before of heritage buildings. And it's I mean I couldn't quite picture how it would work. So it was interesting to see them all up on the trucks like that. They said these are the successful ones. Do they ever have it when they fall down? Like you know what I'm saying? When it collapses in moving. How common is that? Do we know? >> To the chair. Um I'm not that familiar with how often that may or may not occur. >> Um we do know that there's a very limited amount of expert movers that can can do such a move. Um so who McCullik is is very well verssed in in this type of thing and what we do have is um securities in place uh for 100% of the costs should anything go wrong there's still that um financial security to uh to to reassemble and and you know complete the move should anything go wrong. >> So thank you. Yeah, I did read about the um securities as part of that. Then just in the worst case scenario, will all those pieces like would the bricks all be labeled before the move occurs such that in case anything bad happens, we actually know where what was where, you know, like when they took apart the um the Hermitage, they took every brick and had it all numbered and labeled so they knew exactly how to put it back together, >> right? I have been involved in projects where where the facades are cataloged prior to dismantling and reassembly, but because that's not happening. Um, in this case, it it is a lift. Um, I I'm I don't believe that that would typically occur um in in such a scenario. >> Yeah. I wonder Yeah. I mean, I wonder about asking the moving company whether that's part of what they do. It just is just to me it looks so fragile and it's such a risky move to me. Um I would also like to echo what Graham and you know the others have said. It's much better place on academy out visible to the public. It's a beautiful building, right? And having it in the back as an amenities building would have been very negative. So this is great, but I just I I'm still concerned about the move. Anyhow, was there someone speaking there for a second? Was that Lisa? >> Yes, it was Sandra. >> Sandra. Okay, please. >> No, I wanted to add that there was a report that was provided by Odovich and he's a structural engineer >> that is uh well-versed in the in the field of heritage. So, uh oftent times when we as architects work with you know structural engineers as well as McCullik, we do ask for uh the rationale to be stamped by a structural engineer. uh you know who have done those measurements uh to uh ensure that the building doesn't fall off. So there's there's a lot of work that's done ahead of the actual move to ensure that it's secure. >> It's not that I'm thinking it's going to fall off. I'm thinking it's going to collapse. It it the possibility of collapse just because it's so old. That's all. I'm not saying they're going to make a mistake and it's going to slip off or anything. That wasn't what I meant to imply >> it. They're still they also look at you know that. So, in ter in terms of the structural kind of component of it and how it's moved, how it's held together >> and all of that, it's it's probably a very heavy building with how wide those walls are. Um, so I'm sure that's part of the calculations. >> And actually also, um, there was never photographs of the inside of the building. So, um, this is to the applicant. Is it an empty shell right now? Um the the interior of the build it's not an empty shell. Um it it has been um it has demising walls um but nothing structural on the interior. So um there will be sort of substantial uh renovations to the interior to to make it a well-appointed home >> once it's moved. once it's moved and that occurs after the move and um if I could just expand on that um the relationship between uh Orlic the structural engineer and the building moving company um the completion of these reports prepared by and stamped by professional engineers um you know there's considerable um work done into investigating the stability of of the structure before um the move occurs and and Mccullik won't take on the move without having those checks and balances in place. So there there's quite a bit of energy spent on um being satisfied that the the structure can handle the move before that commitment's been made. So uh even before we got to that point, the notion of dismantling and cataloging and reassembling uh was briefly considered, but because the structural integrity is is so sturdy, uh there's confidence in uh in this lift and and relocation as opposed to dis cataloging disassembly and and reassembly. So, um I think we we need a little bit of trust in the process and the securities in place um with those conditions that we have in front of us. >> Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. Um are there any other questions? Uh Graham, please go ahead. >> Yeah, more of a comment. If you were to take a look at the attached documentations to the Lori McCullik, if you look at page four, the building they are moving is a lot more in a fragile state to move than this one. There's a lot of openings at the grade level where they had to support lentils and upper walls. They've done a really good job of it. I'm I was a milright in trade, so I moved a lot of heavy things over the year and and shoring stuff up really makes a difference. And the amount of cross beams they've put into that structure is phenomenal. Normally you see a house moved, there might be four, like a normal wood frame house, they got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11 that you can actually see. That's a lot of uh beams. So, I'm pretty satisfied by this company judging by that picture and what you can see. >> Okay. >> Okay. Then, um that being said, uh if there's no further questions, u may we see the proposed conditions, please? >> Yeah. So there um mentioned there were significant number um so let's go through the ones that are the non-standard conditions just to make sure we've all heard them. [clears throat] So the final details of the proposed alterations to the structure once it's located at 17 Academy including proposed vent covers basement window specifications um be submitted. Okay. and that the proposed masonry restoration work conform to the city's masonry restorations guidelines and that the final details and specifications for the proposed masonry work be submitted. Next page page, please. that the designating bylaw 78.887 be repealed in accordance with the requirements of the Ontario Heritage Act at the expense of the owner and that a new designation bylaw be prepared in accordance with the requirements of the Ontario Heritage Act for the building's new location at the expense of the owner as well. Uh that a new survey be prepared to accompany a new designation by law indicating the boundaries to which the designation applies. That the applicant enters into a heritage easement agreement with the city to the satisfaction and approval of the director of planning and chief planner prior to the issuance of any building permit for demolition or new construction and that this agreement is registered on title. And next page please. that a letter of credit be provided at to be held by the city based on the cost estimates for 100% of the total cost of securing, protecting, stabilizing, relocating, monitoring for a period of three years and the total cost of restoration. And such cost estimates shall be in a form satisfactory to the director of planning and chief planner. And then the last two are the standard um [clears throat] conditions that we always see. So given those proposed conditions, um may I have a mover and a seconder to um to recommend approval of this heritage permit uh 202621. >> Can I make one comment on this? >> Okay. Yes. Okay. You're going to give them you're going to give them three years to be monitored. Shouldn't you give them three years to finish the permit? >> This does sound like a big one to me too as well. Lisa, what do you think? >> Uh so through the chair, um these are also conditions that will be put into the staff report which will be coming to HMHC. Uh so at that time we can adjust those dates to reflect um a more accurate timeline. >> Okay. All right. So three and um I saw Sandra Sandra, you had your hand up. >> Yes, please go ahead. >> I'm putting my hand for the motion. >> Okay, that's great. I wasn't sure if you had a comment on the commissions. Matthew, same as well. You didn't have a comment. You were just motioned. Okay, so do we have a mover in a second to recommend approval of HP202621 398 Wilson Street East in Ancaster? And I saw Sandra and I saw Matthew, I believe. Okay. And um is there anyone opposed? Seeing none, that motion is carried. Okay, great. So, um yes, Matt, um city staff will be in continued discussions with you, I know, on next steps and um I wish you greatest of luck in this project. >> Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us tonight. >> Thanks. >> Okay. Um and we have one more and actually that as well is Mr. Johnston. So this is a pre-conultation. Are you leaving? Is someone else coming in your place? >> Yes. So pre-conultation um item 6.6 6 440 Victoria Avenue North in Hamilton, which is a part 4 property, and it's for a proposal for a new addition on the north elevation of the structure. And so, um, do we have, uh, someone who would like to speak to that application applicant or representative? >> Hi, good evening everybody. It's Megan Hopson. Uh, and I'm here with Rick Glenn Tac who's the architect and Matt Johnson who's the planner on this >> proposal and I have a short presentation for you. >> Okay. Wonderful. Welcome Megan. Nice to see you. And uh Rick and Matt, thank you for staying with us. So uh did you have a question Graeme? >> I I have to make a comment here and it's going to apply to Sandra as well. We have to declare a non-conlicting a non disqualifying conflict with Megan Hobson because we were on the local organizing committee together for the heritage conference this year. I didn't realize she'd be appearing today. I didn't make the statement earlier. >> Non-conlicting sorry >> nondisqualifying conflict. >> Disqualifying. Okay. And how long does that um may I just ask uh Lisa? How long do those non-disqualifying conflicts go on once the event is complete? >> Uh through the chair. I'd have to look into that and um talk to Matt Gotier about that. >> Yeah, our committee's wrapped up. So, >> yes, but we're still doing the financials at the end. >> We haven't ended it. So, until we finish that, it'll be done. I'll talk to Bargazian because he Matt can't answer that. It'll have to be the uh >> the commissioner that answered that question for me. And and just to clarify, this is just an information item today. >> Yes. That's why I'm saying it's non-disqualifying. It just you got you got to put it on the record. That's all it has to go. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, I want to get feedback on that. Um >> All right. Um so, yes, Megan, please. Uh I understand you have a brief presentation. U please go ahead. >> Yeah. So, we're here today just to um present the development to the committee um that will be part of a forthcoming heritage permit application. So, this is for information. We're looking for um feedback from the committee tonight. So, the development is a new office for Stelco. Um and this is the project team. And if you go to the next slide, please. This is a historic photo of the site. So it was built for Otis elevator company um later during World War II munitions were uh manufactured here and then it was the Studebaker plant. So it's got a very significant sort of um history to the industrial sector in Hamilton. It's located at 440 Victoria Avenue North. And this is uh it shortly after it was built. You can see here the original windows and doors uh that were in the building and this photo. So that's why I put that f first. Uh, next slide, please. So this is it. And back in 2012, prior to designation and prior to a heritage permit that was issued to demolish the wings, the twotory wings on either side of the corner block and uh the plant that was attached at the back as well, all the industrial plants. So this is what it looked like in 2012. Um, and you can see the windows in it are not the original windows. Uh, and the doors are not the original doors. Next slide. Uh, and so this is what it looks like more or less today. This is a Google uh, view to capture both um, elevations on the corner. So on the left is the main elevation on Victoria Avenue North and on the right is the shorter elevation on Ferry Street. Uh, it actually looks a little bit worse than this today. I have a couple of photos on the next uh slide to show you what it looks like. But as you can see, it's it's been vacant since 2012. Uh it's boarded up um but it looks to be uh it looks like most of the windows have been removed uh or broken. And there is paint and graffiti on the building as well. So, it's it's it's um doing fairly well uh considering it's been vacant for so long, but uh it has been vacant for quite some time. Uh next slide, please. So, this is a photo that I took uh just recently and you can see this is looking at the back of the building. So, this is where the two-story uh wings along Ferry Street was demolished. And you can just see that that exposed sort of side of the building is is more or less open to the elements. Uh and then if you look at the aerial view on the left, you can see the portion that's been retained, that corner section. Um and then uh in the the red dotted line is where the proposed addition is going to go um to um sort of finish the composition and and create new space for steel go. Uh next slide please. So here's the sort of floor plan and on the right is the heritage portion and you can see that all of it being integrated uh and then and conserved and on the left the blue is the new addition that wraps around on that um side at the around the back where um there's no heritage fabric. So the building was recently designated under part four of the Ontario Heritage Act and the uh Victoria Avenue North and Fairy Street facads exterior masonry are the protected heritage elements. Uh next slide please. So you can see that the addition is um very complimentary. It matches the height uh of the existing building and it um references a lot of the design elements and the sort of rh overall rhythm and composition of the building. Uh and it is um expressed in sort of contemporary style of materials but with reference to the original materials and design elements. So the floor levels are all matched. Um and the uh first story uh sort of foundation with the rusticated elements is kind of referenced in the new um base of the addition. There's larger areas of glazing which is something that um they need for the new office space and then the cornice feature and roof are are again referenced in contemporary materials. Uh next slide please. So if you sort of go around to uh the side, this is where the sort of new atgrade entrance will be located oriented towards the surface parking area that will be provided for the new use. Um and you can see how these corner elements kind of um bookend the existing heritage building and uh creates a very balanced composition. Next slide, please. So just tracing the lines and you can see how the horizontal and vertical lines uh are translated into contemporary uh design and materials. Uh and next slide please. And then looking around. So this is the Ferry Street elevation on the left. Uh and then looking around at where um you saw the earlier photo of that exposed uh elevation now is going to be all new materials um and with this large sort of curtain wall uh look on the side. The darker elements that sort of match the brick uh of the original building are is a steel cladding. And um Rick is here to talk more about materials if there are any questions. Uh, and this just kind of ties in with the existing sort of pallet uh, but in a contemporary material and also appropriate for Stelco uh, as a steel manufacturer. Uh, next slide please. Uh this is one of the uh sort of Studebaker additions to the building, one of the Studebaker plant that was formerly on the site and it has uh that kind of a curtain wall um design mid-century design. So this is one of the other former additions on the site. So um Rico's kind of looking at some of these uh other buildings on the site uh as references for the new uh addition. Next slide, please. Uh, also you'll note that although it's fairly subtle, there's definitely a a setback uh for the addition. So, this is kind of you can see on the right where it transitions between the thicker masonry walls of the heritage building to the thinner curtain wall buildings of the addition. Uh, but it's set back a little bit so that you so that we can preserve that uh masonry corner detail where there's a return on the cornice and the brick. and also to differentiate the new from the old but in a subtle way. Uh, next slide please. Um, so this is kind of the current edition of the uh Victoria Avenue North main entrance on the left and what was the sort of warehouse entrance on Ferry Street on the right. Um, as part of the proposal, the masonry is going to be cleaned to remove uh salt staining, um, carbon soiling and paint and graffiti. Uh, new windows and doors will be installed. Uh, and these, uh, so the Victoria Avenue north entrance will continue to function as a as a as an entrance to the building. Uh the Ferry Street uh entrance is is not required for the new use, but um the intent is to maintain the masonry open opening to preserve um the former use of that doors kind of relevant to the history of the site. Uh, and then beside the warehouse door on Ferry Street, you can see there's been an opening punched through the wall there in a vent. That'll all be um removed with new masonry to match what was there originally to restore it to its original um condition. Uh, next slide, please. Uh so on the left uh the new Stelco um entrance on Victoria Avenue North uh retaining all of the heritage features, installing a new door and then putting some signage up above Indie Stone. On the right is the Ferry Street uh elevation with that door restored with uh doors based on the historic photos that we have that clearly show that entrance. Uh next slide, please. Uh and then we have this is looking at it from Victoria Avenue North so that you can kind of see the full effect uh and those uh change in materials where the addition is located. There'll also be um uh kind of uh skylights up above. There was an existing kind of skylight um section there that's going to be in incorporated into the new design. Uh next slide please. Uh so the uh this is just going over um how it's consistent with standards and guidelines. The addition matches the height scale massing and rhythm of the heritage building. It's clearly distinct as a contemporary edition and complimentary to the Edwardian classicism and brick and stone masonry of the heritage building through thoughtful design elements and material choices. Uh the impact on the heritage fabric has been minimized by providing a setback where the heritage fabric transitions to the new addition. Um and in terms of the alterations, the heritage attributes will be conserved and restored to their original condition. The main entrance on Victoria Avenue North will be stored and will continue to function as a building entrance. The side entrance on Ferry Street is not required to function as a building entrance, but will be preserved as a record of its past use as an entrance to the former factory floor. New doors and windows will be installed based on archival evidence to restore them to their original appearance with double glazing to improve their energy performance. Next slide, please. Uh, and so overall, there's going to be a lot of positive impacts. The heritage building is currently vacant and at risk due to its poor condition. Uh so that will remedy this. Um the heritage attributes will be conserved and restored. The and they're currently not in great condition. The new use is compatible with the heritage value and the heritage attributes and demolition is limited to interior features that are in poor condition. The new use as Telco's office continues a p historic pattern of use as the office of two major industries previously Otis elevator company and student Baker company and now as a headquarters for Stelco another important uh industry in Hamilton and the proposed alterations are consistent with the standards of guidelines. So uh I think that's it. Um when I was Yeah. So, these are my photos from 2012 uh because I I'd done a previous report on and that this is what the condition of some of the interior elements were then, but that this was a long time ago. So, we'll have to go back in again and assess to see if there's anything that could be salvaged. Um, and that will be part of the heritage impact assessment that'll be submitted with the uh heritage permit forthcoming heritage permit application. And then there's also, you know, potential for interpretive um elements on the left. Um the site is already part of the maiden Hamilton Industrial Trail and there's a marker out front. There's also a plaque already uh for the Studebaker Company in the park uh near beside the site. Um and so perhaps some of the interpretive features might focus on the Otis Fence and Elevator Company. Um since the Studebaker's already been recognized and the the city installed plaque. Um so there's some photos from sort of the extensive industrial buildings that were on the site formally in the fire insurance plan in the center there. and then uh a look at the factory floor from uh years ago on the right. So that's that's everything for today. Thanks. >> Okay. Thank you, Megan. Very interesting. >> It was No, it was just on the edge. Um is there do we have any questions from the committee? >> Oh, right. Matthew, I saw your hand up earlier, so please go ahead. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, thank you for the uh the presentation. Um I had a question about uh the figure of the uh the addition. It looks like the um you you're attempting to emulate the curtain glazing of the uh original. Um however, there between the first and second floors there appears to be it looks like spandrel. >> Yeah. Um, and I was wondering if if your team considered utilizing a different material uh other than uh spandrel uh one that might be uh might be um more in the spirit of the uh the original building. I think that um that would be open to looking at different planning materials if uh we're certainly here to get suggestions um and get your eyes on it. Um currently it's a kind of a a metal spandrel feature um that sort of matches, you know, the glazing as opposed to matching the masonry on the heritage building. But that that could be another approach. >> Did you have any further suggestions, Matthew, that you were thinking of or No, just >> Yeah, >> I just a spitballing. Yeah, to to as a potential consideration. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Okay. Any thoughts from anyone else? >> I have question. >> We'll start with start with something. We'll go to >> Graham. Uh, thank you, Megan. Great presentation. I really like this project. Um, I'm questioning the use of the metal uh butdding up against the red brick. I I think that uh the reference to metal is is a good one, but in the illustration, I found some similarities between the brick and the metal. And I wonder if if it's just the way that the rendering was um presented or is it is really is the red the right color to distinguish itself from the brick? Um I'm posing back you know the question to the team and I I wondered if also the the division of the uh the [clears throat] curtain wall is appropriate. I I feel as though if if you want to share the elevation again. Is that okay, Megan? >> Yeah. >> Or or somebody. >> Lisa will put that up. Yeah. >> Thank you, Lisa. So I if if we look at the division of the the sort of the curtain wall those the cadence of the windows and the masonry openings is is not technically represented here and and maybe that's where um uh Matthew was going. I I feel as though those those units are much larger than the windows. uh the punched openings. I I don't feel that kind of being echoed. Maybe there's a an opportunity for another horizontal to be incorporated to actually represent the right proportion of those punched openings, those windows. >> So, you mean the like the vertical bays? >> Yeah, those seem very tall in comparison to the windows, Megan. And I I just wondered if there was another maybe another uh Yeah. horizontal kind of at the top. >> Yeah. >> I wish I could draw on top of this. >> Yeah, I know. I know what you mean to [clears throat] bring it up to the window sills of the of the heritage. Yeah. Okay. Well, we can we can look at that. Um it's a good suggestion. >> Thank you. >> Okay. And uh we'll go to Graham next. Yeah. Uh I like it overall like the the design looks pretty good. But you were talking about the honoring of the companies that used to be in there and you made no mention of the uh the buffers plant that actually Studebaker was built for originally. Otis Venom was bought the building from the government of Canada because that was a buffer anti-aircraft gun plant and I hear nothing about the commemoration of that part of it. >> Sure. We manufacturing of uh munitions during World War II. I did mention that at the beginning, but yeah, that should be uh commemorated as well. >> I think overall is a pretty good deal. I'm just kind of curious what's going to happen to the old Stelco office building now. >> I can't speak to that. >> That's [laughter] really not part of this. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Um thank you, Graham. Matthew, did you have a further question? No, thank you. Okay. Um, anybody else have anything they'd like to ask or comment at this point? Okay. I mean, I can say when I saw this project, I was thrilled, too. I'm I'm just It's a beautiful building. I would love to see this happen. So, yeah. I'm starting to sound like Graham. [laughter] >> Okay. So, that being said, then this is >> that's not a bad thing. [laughter] >> It is just a consultation. So, um, may I have a mover and a secondary to receive the presentation? Okay, I see Andy and I see Matthew and Matthew. And anyone opposed to receiving? >> Nope. Okay. So, that motion is carried. All right. >> Your time. >> Yes. Thank you all for uh taking the time to speak with us this evening. Much appreciated and hope to see you soon with the formalation. Okay. Take care. Thank you, committee. So, as there's no further business, I adjourn this meeting at 6:19 p.m. And our next meeting is scheduled for September 15th, 2026. So, we'll see you in a month. Okay. Thank you again. Appreciate all your time. Decent.