Check one. Sound check one. Okay. And it looks like we're live. Um, so I'll hand it over to you. Uh, >> thank you, Lisa. [clears throat] Uh members of the public are advised that individuals and the media may be audibly and/or visually recording this meeting. I would like to call this meeting of the heritage permit review subcommittee September 15th, 2026 to order. Please note that quorum is present. So committee, you have before you the agenda for this meeting. May have a motion to approve the agenda as presented. Steve Graham and I see Carol. Thank you. And is anyone opposed? Seeing none, that motion is carried. Are there any declarations of interest today? I see Steve. Um, please go ahead, Steve. >> Hi. Um, I'm just sort of connecting the dots right now. Sorry for not pointing this out sooner. Um, uh, Jennifer Crosen and I are colleagues. Okay. >> U so perhaps I'll just I'm not sure what to do and not not participate in the voting or >> um I will defer to Lisa on that >> and I will defer to clerks on that. I think the best course of action would be to um potentially abstain from voting on that item. Um otherwise I think you could participate in the meeting um and make comments. >> Can I put two cents worth in here? Sure, Graham. That would be great >> because I've had Yeah, I've had to go in and talk to the uh commissioner about incidents like this and it's best not to be involved in the discussion or the vote. >> Not that is a big problem. I think hers is already this is a like a late approval, right? [snorts] Her item. >> Yeah. Regardless of whether it was already done or not, >> no, but it's just best to just just stay out of it. >> Possibly. >> Yeah, no problem. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll just uh stay stay quiet and uh >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Steve. Yeah. Any other uh declarations? >> Okay. I see no more. Thank you. Um [clears throat] Okay. Approval of the minutes of the previous meeting. So, you have before you the minutes from HPRC 26008, which was August 18th, 2026. Um may I have a motion to approve the minutes as presented? See Sandra and Andy. Okay. Is there anyone opposed? Seeing none, that motion is carried. Onto the heritage permit applications for this evening. It's found under section six of the agenda. And um oh, sorry, wait, wait, wait. Apologize. Section I section. Yes, six of this agenda. So, the first item is 6.1 uh permit number HP 202624 and that's 30 South Street West in Dundas, which is Osler House, which is a part four property. And the application is for installation of a heat pump along the ground along the east side of the home, including running two refrigeration lines up the east elevation of the home, affixing the refrigeration lines to the mortar, and covering the refrigeration lines in casing similar to the existing rainwater leaders. Um, and note that this heritage permit is for the retroactive approval of work already completed by the applicant. Um we have a representative from the uh application here this evening I believe Jennifer. >> Yes. Hello. >> Hi. Um thanks for joining us. Um usually we give the applicant uh say five minutes to speak. If there's anything further they'd like to say about the project, any further description or explanation they'd like to give? >> No, I mean first things first, apologies that it is retroactive. It was a sort of um lengthy process to get to this point. Um it was a really hot summer. I tried to live without air conditioning in this house and that was not going to happen. So, um the only the only thing I would add is that um Lisa actually was lovely came out to the house so we was able to actually see where we were putting um some of the refrigeration lines. Um and the one that was going to sort of run along the base and then up to a flat roof is now actually going through the basement. So, it actually will be completely not visible. um because when they started doing the work, they realized that that wasn't going to be um good good for the brick. So, we're going in through the basement. So, there's actually less showing um than what we had originally thought. So, that's the only thing I would want to point out. >> And and just to clarify, are you saying it's the the one that's was going to go up the back middle of the building or the >> No, so that one is here. >> Yeah. So, there's a heat pump >> and then there's [clears throat] one going up to the attic from there. >> And then there was going to be one going from there kind of out to the side and then like through over the um Okay, that one that one that you're that is not happening. They've gone through the crawl space in the basement and they've kind of come [clears throat] up a different way in essence. So that you do not see. >> So that's one that's not going to be there. Okay. Thank you for clarifying. >> And right now you can see the actual heat pump um where you can see it. But you know, our plan would be to put gardens so that you're not you're not going to >> Okay. And that is around the back of the house in any case, right? >> It's east facing. You don't really see it in all honesty unless you're walking around the property. This is not the side of the house you're looking at. >> It's not the back. It's not the front. It's not the side that you see when you're driving into the property. It's the sort of least visible part of the property. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, all right. Do we have any questions uh from the committee for the act? I see Sandra, please go ahead. >> Uh, yes. Thank you. I I wondered if there were photographs that we could that you could share of of the way that it is right now. >> There was. Now, I I only today sent it to Lisa, so she may not have it. I don't know if I can share photographs. Um, >> Jennifer, you should be able to share. Unfortunately, I didn't receive um the photos in time. It may have gotten caught up in our um internal review system, but >> All righty. Let me see what I can do here. My computer can be very moody about sharing. No, you guys, >> are you still there? >> Yeah, I don't see it sharing. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. It's not working. Um perhaps you I guess Sandra, are you looking to see what it actually looks like on the that side of the house with the line running up the middle? >> No, there we go. Um okay, let me This is less than ideal. The problem is my my system has not um it's not uploaded the pictures. That's that's part of the problem. Um, let me check on Um, oh, would you like prefer maybe to describe what it looks like if we can't get this to work? Because it it's not pretty, you know. Look there. I don't know if you can see that. I'm going to un um unblur my background. Just don't look at my messy mouse. >> So, it's not centered. It's not centered between the windows. It's kind of just >> the location was selected is centered. The machine is centered between it. Yes. >> But they've done the wire is where they needed to do them. Right. >> But it will look like the um this downspout that is already there. if that makes any sense. And then our plan would be to put greenery around that so you don't see it. >> Okay. Can those be painted? I'm sorry that's out of line. Um I'd have a question. Can those be Can those be painted or No, that that line that goes up. >> Yeah. I I mean I don't see why not. Now what you're not seeing is the casing. The casing is not on that right now. You're just seeing the lines. So the casing is still to be put on that. I don't see why it couldn't be painted. I actually wondered that myself whether or not I painted it the same color green as the shutters, but what I have to tell you is it completely matches the downspout. So it would So I I'm not sure to be honest like that like that has entered my mind though. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Um a question from Graham. >> Please go ahead >> or a comment. This is the side of the house that backs onto that drain line to your neighbor's side. Yeah. So that's >> Yeah. So we we are really nitpicking on the side of the house that no one's going to be there besides the gardener. >> Yep. >> Like it's just one of those things. So I think if you were to get a nice little green uh looks like matches your shutters to kind of go around that like a lot of places do to kind of hide it. Like what more do we need? It's going to look like a down spout. It's not a side of the house anyone's going to go to. the other three sides are much more prominent. Let's not put a huge burden on this for where it is. >> Yeah, thanks for your comment, Graham. Um, okay. Is there any further comments or questions? >> Okay. Um so as we know um this is for retroactive work a retroactive approval of work that's already been basically started or partly completed. It's not quite complete what we understand now. Um so there are no draft consideration uh uh conditions for consideration as it's essentially a retroactive approval of work already completed. So, um, with that, may I have a mover and a seconder to recommend approval of heritage permit HP 2026 024 subject to um, well, no conditions. Okay. And I see and you I see Graham. Do I see a seconder? I see Carol. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. and I um you know accept your apology for not coming to us earlier. Um certainly we've spoken to you before and um we know that you fully understand the responsibilities of having a heritage home. So >> yeah. No, I do and I I do apologize and and I mean we will my my next project is probably the shutters. I know where to come. So like I I it just honestly I I almost lost it this summer. It just got so hot in this house. I am not sure how. Anyways, >> okay. >> What? Thank you very much and I do apologize. >> Thank you for coming in and I'm sure we'll be seeing you again. Okay. Have a nice evening. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. >> Bye. >> Okay. And our second application for this evening. >> Hold on. Sorry. >> Yeah, you can. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. Our second application for this evening is item 6.2 two HP 20226025 pertaining to 1280 Main Street West in Hamilton which is part of McMaster University which is a part 4 uh property and the application is for various external repairs to Edwards Hall including removal of vines from masonry to confirm additional scope localized masonry repointing installation of masonry helical ties where necessary replacement of approximately 250 50 bricks as necessary to match the texture, size, color, and physical properties of the existing bricks and slate tile replacement where required. Uh, do we have a representative from the applicant here to speak to the application? >> We do. Yes. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Yes, we can hear you. Uh, so welcome, Ben. Um, yep. Great. Got your camera now, too. Thank you. And, um, all right. So, if you would do you have anything you'd like to add to what was already listed for your description of changes or any context you'd like to provide? >> Um, yeah, perhaps like there's a good summary of the scope of work proposed for the project. Um everything on this will be like for like. Um it's very localized in nature just due to um you know the building needing it due just to environmental factors. Um the one thing I'll add if it wasn't reviewed yet is the mortar composition testing has been completed already in advance um to to match uh or as closely match the um heritage uh masonry and uh the mortar composition as it sits. So >> thank you for that. Okay, are there any questions or comments from the committee? Um, Graeme, please go ahead. >> Yeah. Well, thank you for doing you can to keep this building around. My one concern is with the vines. You said you're going to cut them off till they die and let them die off. What are you doing with the roots? >> It's a good question. Um McMaster has already undergone uh a lot of vine removal um of this building uh already. There's a section that they hadn't done. Um so we're proposing that the contractor remove the vines. I'm not sure what McMaster actually did with the roots of the vine system that was there already. Um I I would expect they had just cut it down to grade and left the uh root system intact, but I can't confirm that without actually going to site and and verifying. >> Yeah, because vines can be very insiduous. They can come right back. >> And that's where the problem with a lot of these bricks are. Those little suckers get in and draw moisture in. So like if they're going to do this, like I would be much happier long term if they ripped them out of the ground. or poison them, whatever, whatever it takes to make sure they don't come back because that it's a real problem for buildings, >> right? I I would agree. Um it's aesthetic a lot of the time why these vines were placed there in the first place. They are not heritage vines. Um so yeah, like that could be added to the scope of work um to ensure that the vines are not going to cause future problems. Yeah, I would be very happy to put that as a condition. That's my only concern because like you're following the guidelines. I was reading that scope and I don't understand a lot of it, but it's being done correctly, which is unusual in today's world. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Graham. Um, uh, Sandra, please go ahead. >> Thank you. uh curious to find out where the spot brick replacement is happening um on some of the elevations. Where do you intend to source your brick from and do you have a sample of it? >> We don't have a sample of it currently. Um it would be under the the contractor's scope of work to source uh similar brick. Um and under the assumption that that brick would be submitted as a sample to us the consultant and to McMaster the owner um for approval essentially. >> Yeah. Oftent times when there the documents show this sort of information uh the replacement ends up looking like a patch because it's a patch of brand new bricks. So, I'd be curious to find out what you're going to specify in your documents as part of the um where to source the brick from. And I'd recommend for for you to do that. Okay. Um that's fair. That's something that we can uh certainly add into into the specification as far as a suitable brick um to replace what's there. The the challenge here obviously is finding that source. They don't make bricks now that you know they made 100 years ago. So matching the exact properties would be near impossible unless you had an attic stock uh of brick for for these intentional buildings that were that were done at the time they were done. Um we've had success with that in in in the past. Um but not anything this this old. Um so we would have to do some research into implementing um that into our specification to find a suitable brick alternative. >> Thank you. >> Um are there any further questions from the committee? Yeah, I mean I didn't um I do note that one of the draft conditions is that final details and specs of the brick be uh oh actually I'm not sure if if lease was going to incorporate that it be for the brick or just the entire masonry work be submitted but um perhaps that could be flushed out a little bit. >> Okay. Um Lisa, may we see the proposed conditions, please? Sure. I apologize. I don't have the slides set up. Uh that was something I forgot to do. Uh [laughter] um but I do have the draft conditions and we could revise the conditions to indicate that the final details and specs be revised to include the type of brick um or the proposed uh replacement brick and that they would come back through staff um if that was um desired by the committee. >> Yeah, I think so. Um, also I mean I must say that just in reading the application there was certainly a lot of effort that's gone into thinking about this and right checking out the mortar and such and that's all greatly appreciated. So thank you for that. Um, so the proposed conditions are the two standard conditions which are at the bottom and um, C and D. And then the two different ones specific for this application are that the proposed masonry restoration work conform to the city's masonry restoration guidelines and that the final details and specifications and probably adding in about specifying the brick be submitted to the satisfaction and approval of director planning and such. and that the vines be cut at the base and left to die off prior to removal from the structure as to not damage masonry any further which um we discussed as well. So >> yeah, can we also add a little bit onto there about dealing with the root system so they don't come back. >> Yeah, I just you want to make sure also that you're not damaging what's the structure of the >> Oh yeah. Right. So >> yeah, >> like I said, there is uh metal poisons of some sort that stop it from coming back and aren't dangerous to other plants, but they get down from the root system or if they cut them below gray, sometimes allow them to rot out, right? You just got to make sure they don't come back. We don't we don't want these poor guys coming back five years from now because much more bricks are failing. Mhm. [snorts] >> Could it be something about Lisa exploring options to uh >> prevent the vines from >> return the vines? Yeah, >> sure. I can add that language in. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, with those four conditions then, um, may I have a mover and a seconder to recommend approval of heritage permit 202625 subject to these recommended recommendations? Okay. And I see Sandra and I see Andy. Okay. And is there anyone opposed? Okay. Seeing none, that motion is carried. Okay. So, um, thanks for coming in, Ben. Appreciate your time and, uh, staff will follow up with you on next steps and, uh, good luck with the project. Love those old buildings. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you very much, everybody. >> Byebye. >> Um, all right. With those two applications uh discussions being complete, uh as there's no f further business, I adjourn the meeting at 5:24 p.m. And um our next meeting is scheduled for October 20th, 2026. So, thank you committee. Appreciate you taking the time. Lisa, do you have something you want to say? >> Yeah, sorry. Through the