Sound check 1 2 3. Sound check. One, two, three. Yeah. Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the Emergency Community Services Committee for the City of Hamilton, May 7th, 2026. I'd like to call the meeting to order. We do have quorum present for today's meeting. A reminder that all electronic devices are to be switched to a nonaudible function during the committee meetings. I'd like to move to item number three, which is the approval of the agenda. May I please have a mover in a second to approve the agenda as presented? Moved by councelor crutch, seconded by councelor Moren Wilson. Are there any changes or concerns about the agenda? Seeing none, this is done by a show of hands. So all those in favor, please. And that's unanimous. Thank you very much. We're moving on now to declarations of interest. Are there any declarations of interest from the members of the committee today? Seeing none, thank you very much. If at any time during the meeting you do find that you have a declaration of interest that has popped up, please bring it to the chair's attention. We're moving on to item five, which is the approval of the minutes of previous meetings. 5.1 March 26, 2026. May I please have a mover and second to adopt the minutes of the March 26, 2026 meeting of the Emergency and Community Services Committee. Moved by Councelor Kutch, seconded by Councelor Jackson. Any discussion on the minutes? Councelor Jackson, please. There you are. Just a second. Does that work? Yep. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair Clark. I was just going to ask after the minutes did you want to recognize for public consumption who is on your committee that's in that's present today. That was all. Thank you. I'd be happy to. So mover and secondary do not have one yet for the minutes. Move by councelor Crutch. Second by councelor Jackson. And that's a show of hands. All those in favor please raise your hands. Thank you very much. So joining us virtually today, we have counselor Narendra Nan. We have counselor Alex Wilson. We have counselor Tammy Wang who's here, but she's actually in her office. She came in, got to eat her lunch, so wants to do it there, which I appreciate that. Thank you for joining us. Councelor Tom Jackson is here live and in person. Live at in person. Councelor Cameron Cretch, Councelor Moren Wilson, and of course myself. Did I miss anyone? >> Thank you. My pleasure, counselor. Okay, we're moving on to delegations. Items 6.1, Paul Armstrong, president, Mohawk College, and Mark Iote, head of the College of Hillfield Strath Allen College, respecting the development of a high-performance artificial turf facility. This is an in-person delegation. Come on down, please. councilors. Before their presentation begins, I have been asked that they we provide them an additional five minutes to complete their delegation in keeping with our rules of order. I need a mover and second to do that. Councelor Tom Jackson, seconded by Councelor Tammy Wang. Thank you very much. And that is an electronic voice or voice electronic vote. Sorry, we're just getting some of the paperwork out of the way. That vote carried unanimously. 70. Thank you very much. Uh so you now have uh 10 minutes for your presentation. Paul and Mark, um you can move the podium up and down there. Sal can show you how we do that. We like to impress people with our technology. >> Be cool if we had a remote button here to move it up and down. So, just a second. S's got to turn your mic on. Okay. So, when you begin speaking, we'll begin timing. Okay. >> Great. Well, thank you very much for the opportunity. I'm Paul Armstrong, uh, president of Mohawk College and, uh, on behalf of myself and Mark I from Hillfield Strath Allen College, very excited to be here today to talk to you about what we believe is an incredible opportunity for not just the two of us as uh, anchor institutions in the city of Hamilton, but for the city of Hamilton to realize a number of your goals uh, recently uh, aligned to the approval of your recreation master plan. So in preparation for today, we did submit a full uh development plan from Knack Design. We also submitted the slides and uh I know that you may not have had the opportunity. So what we're hoping to do is just to give you sort of the high points and really focus not so much on the benefit for Hillfield Strath Allen and Mohawk College, but more about what the benefits to the city would be and why we think it's compelling to be able to look at this as an opportunity for all of us. But before I get to some of the key points on the executive summary, I want to tell you a little bit about how we actually arrived here in front of you today. So about a year ago, Hillfield Strath Allen and Mohawk uh we share property uh just off of G on the south side of the Hillfield Strath Allen property. We uh have a desire for both of our own goals to advance the creation of a turf field facility to allow us to meet the objectives we have around varsity sports and he'll strath around their programming. And as we started to advance this opportunity collectively, discussions with the city uh sort of on the heels of the approval of the recreation master plan identified what could be a very potentially costefficient, effective partnership that would bring the city into this work to allow us to with a potential investment upfront from the city of $8 million advance an overall project of $14 million to create an artificial turf field with the amenities, the lighting, and the building on our property. uh but in a way that would meet all of our uh benefit needs. So, as I mentioned, uh we are going to talk a little bit more about the community benefits in a minute, but there is strong alignment with the city's recreation master plan. We know that uh turf fields and turf fields in general are uh in demand and one of the greatest efficiencies identified within the master plan and we think that we have an opportunity to help you very very quickly to move this forward. The other thing you'll see is that there's a strong commitment to the partnership. And one of the benefits we'll talk about in a minute is that, you know, obviously cost of ownership and upkeep of a facility like this over the long term uh is sometimes a problem when it comes to budget planning over a long period. But this is something that we as partners, Hillfields, Drathal, and Mohawk would absorb into our obligation over the next number of years. So ultimately we're looking at creating a turf field that would meet all of our needs with strong alignment around usage and we will also engage through already a partner with Hillfield Strath Allen new stadia to help with the management of the facility in an ongoing basis. So again you know we want to focus more on the community benefits and there are a number of the specifics here but I would say on the highest level there are some really important ones here related to the city. uh when Knack was doing their work and coming up with the concept design, one of the quotes within the Knack proposal is that the work that we want to do around this turf field meticulously aligns with the city's recreation master plan. It's a perfect synergy when it comes to the use. When we map out the usage of time that Mohawk has, Hillfield Strath Allen has, it doesn't actually use any of the key times that the city would be using to support community groups, sports leagues, uh through the summer and on weekends. We know that it's a very cost-effective way to do it and that we get mutual benefit by sharing the costs in a way that maximizes total utilization of the facility and as I mentioned we would be assuming cost of ownership. So from you know the resident perspective from a taxpayer perspective this is a very costefficient model upfront capital investment no need to worry about the operational costs of managing and no need to worry about cost of ownership replacement and upgrade over the next 25 years or whatever the duration of the partnership would be. We also know that it extends the sport season. So uh you know we currently have turf grass fields that we use but they're not meeting our needs from the amount of usage. Uh we know that the work that Knack has done has developed a concept that is as environmentally responsible as it can be. Uh the artificial turf will be using uh very natural materials. We know that there will be no need for water for fertilizer and that that is going to have a good impact. And we also know that the usage rates for an artificial field, one artificial field will actually equate to about four to six grass fields, which again has a very positive impact on both the utilization rates, but also on the environment. So, I'll turn it over to Mark to talk a little bit about what we would each bring to this partnership. Thanks Paul and thanks everyone uh for having us here for the presentation today. And um we we sort of broke this down into five groups and what Mohawk and Hillfield Strath Allen would bring to the table is really around operational expertise uh both from an academic and a co-curricular perspective with respect to athletics and also existing relationships that we have with community partnerships who are very accustomed to using both the Mohawk and the HSC facilities both inside and out. So, it's sort of a natural synergy with some of the ongoing partnerships that we have. And we also feel that the 14 acres that we share amongst the two organizations are currently used a lot by the community. And so, this would just be an augmentation of that community use almost in a parkland setting. Um, again, we have a a great partnership as as does Mo and I know that the city does with New Stadia. Uh we actually have a full-time is new stadium employee that works at HSC every day organizing all of our rentals and camps and that would extend and we'll get into that a little bit later in the presentation into that ongoing rental and supportive revenue to maintain and upgrade the facility. >> So just to give you a little bit of context, so this would be a facility built on our existing property and again I don't know if you can see the mouse but the star represents the area that's currently the grass field where the artificial turf field would go. Uh, I think what's most important here though is that you can see kind of the the dark it looks like a construction area. This is actually the Mohawk College property which is now a fully completed parking lot. And one of the other things that we would be able to realize through this partnership is access to adequate parking. We would dedicate this parking lot in the back corner of Mohawk College which is already existing uh at no cost. And when we actually build that in, uh, that's about a $ 1.5 million a year additional incind contribution we'd be making each year over the duration of the partnership. And the other incind costs from Hillfield Strath Allen relate to operating costs, maintenance of the field. So no obligation for operating expenses to the city after the upfront investment. >> And we're grateful to our partners from Knack who are here uh, as well today, and I hopefully had a chance to read their very thorough report. But some of the other additions to the field. So the short field again a high performance field that's sort of FIFAiz which would allow uh great opportunities for rentals and hosting tournaments in the city of Hamilton which would be attractor as well. But it also involves some fieldhouse uh accommodations for change rooms and washrooms and things like that would be available for public use that we as HSC would maintain. Our facilities and grounds teams uh would take care of all the maintenance and the cleaning of all those facilities on a daily basis. Mark. >> So, we wanted to break down too, we've talked a little bit about the usage rates here. So, ideally, uh, HSC would being a a preK to 12 institution would be using the facilities from 8:00 in the morning until just before 5:00. And then Mohawk College would be using the fields from 5 to 11 pm predominantly in the fall when the bases the when their most uh intensive use for their uh soccer and other field teams would be uh which would allow the springtime a lot of use on the weekends in the evenings and the springtime. Uh selective evenings and weekends in the fall, but then almost exclusive use uh for the city of Hamilton and our community partners over the course of the spring and the summertime. And again, knowing how New Stadia um is very efficient at renting out our current spaces, their ability to uh rent out to community groups at 1,600 hours is an amazing revenue that could go to support the annual maintenance costs of the field, but also uh we would be investing any surplus uh above the maintenance costs into a fund that as Paul mentioned would uh replenish the field when it needs to be replaced down the road, 15, 20, 25 years depending on the lifespan of field. So, this would be a one cost for the city and then it would perpetuate uh over time through those revenues. >> So, just briefly, I know we only have another minute left before we open for questions, but we're what we're hoping today is that there's interest enough to consider this as a potential ask in your upcoming budget planning and to refer it back to staff to continue to work on the development. We know there'd be a number of legal agreements, operating agreements, all of that would need to be put into place to support, but ultimately our goal would be to work all of that through and hopefully open the facility for use in the fall of 2028. You will have seen this is a very detailed uh work that Knack has done. Uh but basically the the field itself is around a 4 to5 million uh investment capital upfront above and beyond the land costs which we're absorbing. Then the outuildings at an additional two and then with contingency we're in the range of about 7.9 million overall. So again, just uh sort of in closing, we really hope that this uh shows that there's an opportunity for the city to meet the needs within your recreation master plan to create a lot of community benefit to do it in a way that does not obligate you to ongoing operating costs at an upfront capital investment will give you more than a a sustainable and significant return on your investment and a great opportunity to show innovation and partnership within the city of Hamilton between the municipality and two key partners. Thank you. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Much appreciated. Uh we have a number of counselors who wish to ask some questions. First up is councelor Tom Jackson. Councelor, thank you uh Chair Clark, President Armstrong, nice to see you again. Our years go back to the 90s when we helped to develop couple of neighborhood parks on the East Mountain and our careers have hopefully flourished since then. And nice to meet you, head of co head of college for Hillfield AOT. Nice to meet you as well. I have a series of questions, Chair Clark. Um, this is potentially creating a further I'll call it a further nice problem for our municipality and I'll explain why, but through my questions hopefully they'll become clear. Uh, through you to President Armstrong. Is this an indoor or outdoor facility or combined? Can you clarify please? >> Thank you, Chair. This is uh designed to be an outdoor facility with no enclosure. Uh Knack's work and looking at the requirements within your master plan and our needs both from Hillfield Strap and Mohawk. Maximum utilization and usage would be with an open turf facility. >> Counselor, >> thank you. Um, so this would be on your land and if hypothetically this ever came to fruition. This would the facility would be owned jointly by Mohawk College and Hillfield through you, Chair Clark. Please, >> President Armstrong. >> Yes, correct. So, we join we co-own 14 acres as uh Mark Ayat said. Uh, and so we would joint ownership at the facility um once it's established. your $8 million capital investment requested of the city in this proposal by you. Um that would be a nonrefundable 8 million. In other words, that would be necessary towards the capital outlay to build this outdoor facility through you, Chair Clark, please. >> Thank you, President Armstrong. >> Correct. Are you aware, President Armstrong, of at Mohawk Sports Park, there have been two previous proposals, mind you, for indoor facilities, but similar amenities of artificial turf and accommodating a multitude of various sports groups, and that's land we own. I'm just simply asking you in in the pursuit of partnerships, Chair Clark, are you aware of either one of those proposals by the Mohawk Sports Park Hub and Mount Hamilton Youth Soccer Club? >> So, I'm not aware of the details of the agreement, but I know there are opportunities for partnership on the Mohawk Sports Park that has been uh available publicly through news media outlets. >> Jones. >> Okay. And I'm a little um I'm a little hesitant. Chair Clark, the president, the two presidents have put up about today's hopeful, if I read it correctly, endorsement. I think what we did with the two other proposals, if we want to maintain consistency, I'm just asking through you to President Armstrong that we if we're going to as a committee, we simply refer this proposal to city staff under director Steve Seavore with the understanding that it would then be in the hopper and assessed and matched up against other proposals previously through you, Chair Clark, to President Armstrong. Is that satisfactory to you? At least as a beginning or you're looking for full endorsement today for at least this counselor that's going to be tricky and difficult. >> Well, I Mark I think we would be happy with it being referred back to staff for further planning and to come into the hopper for potential further consideration. We know that there are probably a lot of detailed unanswered questions that you would have that would would work through in a more detailed consultation process with the city as long as the direction's there to come up with a concept that could be considered and uh your staff would then know all the details required to bring a full package back here for consideration at the appropriate time. >> Last question, Chair Clark, so I don't have to go on a second time. Thank you through you. >> Thank you for that. Uh thank you for that uh leeway from your standpoint and again you're looking to ideally 2027 again as one member of this council uh whoever is going to be here next term that could be again difficult and that could be um an unreasonable time frame. In other words, if the new council cannot accommodate what you ideally want in 2027, is your understanding that, well, Tom, if it's going to take a few more years, as long as it's under study, so be it. Or is it councelor Jackson, 2027 has to be the time or else forget it. We'll move onwards with somebody else. That's my last question. Chair Clark, >> who wants to speak to the flexibility of your offer? >> Go ahead, Mark. >> I'm happy to do so. Yeah, we uh this is not an urgent uh ask and so fitting it into the city's timeline is perfectly acceptable to us. >> Thank you gentlemen for the honesty of your answers. Thanks Chair Clark. >> Thank you councelor. The next speaker would be councelor Kretch, please. >> Thanks for coming out today. I'm curious to understand if you've looked at the recreation master plan, the budget for the recreation master plan and understand the scope of your request with respect to the funding for our recreation assets. >> Who wants to handle that one? >> Go ahead. I I'll so we have as as Mark mentioned we've engaged Knack uh design who has done a lot of work to assess basically looking at what components of the deficiencies and the opportunities do we have to meet the goals of the recreation master plan. We have not done I would say a thorough sort of benchmarking as to how much you have or have not budgeted yet against enabling that recreation master plan in relationship to the cost of what we uh envision this project to um to to cost. So I we haven't done any of that sort of assessment, but it's really been more around how does this potential concept that we're trying to enable align to helping the city uh achieve the goals and the outcomes that has been articulated through that recreation master plan with less of a focus on sort of the financial component against the total. >> Thank you, counselor. I'd maybe suggest that since you're coming here primarily with a financial ask that that's a really important thing to be doing as this pro proceeds because typically speaking the city of Hamilton hasn't really funded recreation at the level it's needed and so an $8 billion ask and in relative to a $13 million for every 1% tax increase is just something to be mindful of. My second question is around access. I have yet to see in the city of Hamilton's history a good access agreement for members of the community where it comes to partnerships. Now al I won't speak to Mohawk Sports Park. That could have been an exception, but I mean in the lower city specifically. Um you know Tim Horton's field comes to to mind for instance about a lot of challenges people in the community have accessing that space because there are many barriers put in place there and you talked about a profit generation model here. So my question to you is how do you actually envision the community or the city of Hamilton using this? I don't know anything about the group you spoke about Stadia and their kind of the methodology, but oftentimes it's just parents who are trying to arrange something with a group of other parents to get a bunch of kids to play flag football somewhere and they're met with a bureaucratic regime and a bunch of costs to do so. And I'm wondering how you envision this project supporting something that's much more grassroots and and unorganized, which is frankly most of the sports that get played on fields in the city. >> Yeah, I think um from from our experience with with rentals, we are often renting to organizations and a lot of it's related to insurance. Um, often like an organization like the Hamilton Youth Soccer Clubs that you're talking about would have their own insurance and so when they're coming onto our property, we often have to have some sort of acknowledgement of an insurance. So I can understand why just a group of parents with their kids is a is a different uh sort of experience uh trying to rent Tim Hortons, for example. So ours has typically been um providing space to community groups that have existing uh infrastructure. >> Councelor, >> yeah, I'd ask you to consider that as you do this. There are many models out there where you can self-insure, you can provide insurance at a cost, all kinds of different things to make this accessible for people in the lower city. We're at an absolute drought of recreation assets in the lower city. Um and grassroots organizations who don't have those kinds of things need spaces to play. Thank you. Thank you councelor councelor Nurend Nan please. >> Thank you through you chair. Uh the bulk of my questions have been asked. The only one remaining is um can you speak to me a little bit about your assessment of artificial turf versus natural turf recognizing you have a lot of natural turf on your site already um as it relates to climate and um mitigating climate negative climate impacts. >> Thank you. Who wants to handle that one? Yeah. So, I will try and uh give a bit of context and I may need to call on my uh counterparts from Knack to give us they've done more of the assessment. But uh thank you councelor Nan for that question. So we uh not only did Knack as they were looking at the design concept for this facility consult and look with the recreation master plan. They were also being as diligent as they could be to assess this project against the climate action plan that the city of Hamilton has as well. And so, you know, just some of the details that this uh artificial turf system that we would be proposing here is using a material that is a naturally occurring uh mineral that captures and actually stores atmospheric carbon. And so, it actually can be a net positive carbon uh opportunity here because of what it captures out of the air and then stores. We also know that the material has only been installed in one other location and that's at Queens University. So this would only be the second field which is actually using the more sustainable uh materials to create the best sustainability options for the field itself. The other thing that we know is that uh from a utilization perspective that on a grass uh natural turf field you get about 20 to 25 hours of use a week before the field starts to degrade. um and that uh that's less in the shoulder seasons and that with the turf field you get really no limit. There's no limitation to the amount of access. And so when you start to think about um let's just wait for one second. That's that national test. I'm still trying to figure out how the shut off. There we go. Perfect. Thank you very much. Please continue. >> Yeah. Sorry. Thank you. And uh so with the utilization rates, we uh know through the work of Knack that uh one artificial turf field can equate to a total usage equivalent of about four to six grass fields. And so when you're not looking at uh fertilizing and maintaining uh that many grass fields and getting the same usage uh we feel that uh from a sustainability perspective, Mohawk also has very aggressive goals around being as sustainable as possible and feel that this would meet uh within our goals as well. So we would be very diligent on that to ensure we're uh doing it in a way as sustainable and carbon uh neutral or positive around sequestration of carbon as possible. >> Thank you councelor Nan. There are representatives here in the chamber from Knack Design Strategies. If you wish to go further, it's up to you. >> No, I'm good. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Any further questions around the table? Seeing none, we thank you very much for your delegation. I need a mover and seconder to receive the delegation. Moved by councelor Cretch. Or is there a question? >> Okay. Question to the delegate. Okay. So, let's deal with the the um receiving part first. Moved by councelor Cretch, seconded by councelor Wang to receive the presentation. That's a show of hands. All hands. Thank you very much. That's unanimous. Uh to be fair, Moren Wilson had asked to speak first. So, I'll I'll uh So, we're now opening the floor to questions to staff just to give the heads up to staff and we'll start with Council Me Wilson. Councelor, go ahead. >> Thank you, Chair. Apologies, councelor Crutch. Uh, good, good point. I should have used the list. Thank you. Um, we've had a discussion previously, so part of my question is just a reminder and then looking future forward. Perhaps it was embedded in that reminder or not. Um, oh, it's regrettable that they're gone. I it I don't have a question of them, but Okay, that's fine. >> Well, they may want >> That's okay. It's fine. >> They might want to hear what >> it's fine. It's >> Yeah. No, I apologize. >> No, I was No, no. >> So, there are there there are going to be questions to staff. So, if you wanted to just take a seat. >> No. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't realize you had because my back is to you. I didn't realize you had left. I didn't intend for you to be ushered back, but it is in part >> We're so polite. We dragged you right back in here for nothing. >> I think to be fair to you though, Councelor Crretch had asked uh just of your familiarity with the recreational master plan in relation to what it was telling us financially also. So, I just thought out of courtesy I would maybe give a summary as part of my question, but I I didn't need you to come back in. That's fine. Um, so to my question to Director Seavore, >> should I start your clock over? >> Yeah, please. Um we we received word I believe last year that because of um that our our recreation and parks facilities are facing significant funding shortfalls due to uh underinvestment. We have a considerable maintenance backlog. Um in wreck facilities alone it's $176.7 million. With parks, we need $133.5 million and that's in 2025 just to keep the existing infrastructure in basic working order. Um, these figures that were presented to us, my understanding then was they only cover upkeep and renewal and we don't have any funds allocated for enhancements or new recreational spaces to accommodate a growing community. Um reading from my notes, the age and condition of many facilities uh make prioritization of expenditure really critical. And therein lies my question. Um could you remind me of what what is going to be informing you in this really um difficult space that staff are in in their calibration of moving forward. I understand given this financial predicament probably why partnering makes sense. But that is stuck up against a reality of partnering for new when we do not we are so so far behind in terms of a deficit for existing. Layered onto that, I think what councelor Crutch was hinting at is an equity component where there is no green space for example in the lower city to build new. There is only existing. So that would kind of uh might you might conclude that there's very limited partner opportunity and if partnering opportunity is the only opportunity to get new then we're in a bit more inequitable position. Can you can you how is how is that road ahead going to be um what is informing you in your calibration of of this situation and when you hear delegations like this? >> Thank you. Steve, you want to start by introducing yourself please? >> Yes. Through the chair Steve Sabor, director of recreation and thank you for the question councelor Wilson. Uh you are right in terms of the information that uh you recounted about uh our recreation master plan. and the deficits that we have as it relates to our current infrastructure. Uh those that um are either needed for renovation uh or for existing pieces uh and amenities uh in the sense that uh for new developments. Uh you are correct that we do not have a current um uh funding block or uh source of funding for that. Um we do rely upon opportunities and uh part of the recreation master plan speaks about uh partnership opportunities and uh collaborative um ways in which we can um source those and and uh help to help to satisfy those needs. Our communities are growing. Um there's uh there's that opportunity to um to to have uh opportunities for partnerships and development so that we can match up to the growth of community. But uh to answer your question in terms of what are we using to uh inform those decisions uh one of those things is equities. One of those things is also um the actual logistical uh pieces, the technical pieces in terms of what is needed by the community. Um where that uh need is is more presented. Um how how that can be accessed by the broader community as well, the funding uh availability. Uh so there's a number of different factors that uh are really important in terms of these discussions. um they're not uh specifically uh um you know a silver uh a silver bullet in terms of of finding what that uh what that answer would be. Uh but it's a it's a matter of analyzing all those aspects uh looking at the prioritization of of uh our needs as well uh amongst all the uh aspects of of our inventory as well. >> Thank you counselor. >> So thank you for that. Uh it's a very challenging situation. My other question is um you we referenced the parks deficit and I think what councelor Cret was perhaps hinting at is um yes we're increasing population. There's some parts of our community that are more dense in that regard and have less park space to run and play. And how do we avoid an outcome that we can put a we can put a dollar value on a space that generates money and I'm not picking on this space that was before us but there is there is an amount we would extract from that and you can't do the same calibration on just having a green space in say W 2. I'm picking on W two because we know factually that it is devoid of green space. So how does how do we ensure that the outcome is actually even in its assessment of value when we know one generates revenue one doesn't generate revenue >> director Zor >> uh through the chair that's a that's a great question I might not have the the right answer for that uh >> yes I'm looking for assurance I respectfully I know you don't have the answer what I need assurance is that we ascribe a value to space that we do not charge money to use in an operating agreement. >> So, Steve, just the second GM Mater, please. >> Uh through the chair, good afternoon, Grace Mater, general manager of healthy and safe communities. Um through to the councelor Wilson. Absolutely. Those would be the priorities. I mean, we know that it's not just about revenue generation that these amenities need to be aligned to and we would work with our colleagues and director Graham is also here today to to hear this uh presentation as well. So I think that we would absolutely make those priorities and those decisions in that broader context. >> It is a challenging for you because you're being asked to create um something magical with very little and often the formula that we're giving to to you to do that is is revenue dependent as an income um when we have many needs for the outcome. My final question is have have we done an assessment of previous public private uh partnerships when it comes to um an assessment or an evaluation of the outcomes like did we get what we thought we were getting? Uh did the public use um live up to expectations? If we had to do it again, would those things inform future partnerships? Have we have we done something like that? Director Sephor, >> those are my questions. Thank you. >> Uh through the chair, we've had uh the great uh pleasure of having a number of um public private partnerships um through that process and I can I can speak to uh our relationship with Luina Force uh center as well. uh but it's built in to that agreement and built into um the discussions about annual reviews uh to ensure that um and and typically I've brought back reports on on that partnership on an annual basis to to inform how well we're doing with partners and how well it's servicing the needs of the community. Um, I think we take a look at that from a case-bycase perspective. Um, to the fact that we do a broader review of of all of our 3P partnerships and and other collaborations. I think that's something that we can continue to work on, but we do have um in in those specific cases. Uh, we have uh incorporated that review uh in in in our review uh on an annual basis. >> Thank you. The next speaker is Councelor Crutch, please. Questions of staff. >> Um, I think I'm going to be honest by saying up right up front that I really appreciate, first of all, people coming forward saying, "Hey, we have land. It's available. We want to partner with you. That's an important thing to be doing. I share many of the sentiments that councelor Moren Wilson shared about how that's prioritized. I can say to you with some confidence that the densest neighborhood in our community, the Duran neighborhood, has the least amount of green space, if we expended a fraction of the money being suggested here, would have an unbelievable impact on that community. So, I want to just say that I'm very supportive of ideas that come along that help us leverage these things where we're not, for instance, having to spend the whole 14 million ourselves, but we have a lesser portion and we get a result. fine, but some of the assets downtown are in unbelievable condition. And I just really want to say that that's an important part of everything we do here. About two years ago, we had a discussion here at this table at Emergency and Community Services about a process that was being developed to solicit these applications. I'll say from my perspective, I don't think it serves anyone in this organization, the public or folks coming forward to have them come here and present and delegate to us on these proposals. I think it sends the wrong message. I think what it suggests is that somehow uh we're going to, and thanks to Councelor Tom Jackson for already starting down this line, that we're going to somehow just endorse projects off the floor. That is probably the most awful type of decision-m we could we could engage in as a council. And I'll say I'm very proud of this council. What we've done in this term council specifically is said, "Look, if you come forward with the delegation, just know in advance, we will not be approving something on the floor. We will not be putting motions on the floor. We're going to try and do this in a in a responsible way." I'm deeply concerned about how it got here in the first place. >> And there isn't a process where staff are coming forward annually saying or semiannually, quarterly. Right. The question is, sure. I mean, I think I'm also allowed to make comments, but I can ask a question. Sure. >> Well, respectfully, there's nothing before us. They were delegates. We received their delegation. We're now asking questions of staff. That's all we're doing. >> Sure. I can form it in the phrase of a qu the form of a question. I didn't know I wasn't allowed to make a comment. So the question is about where that process is because two years ago we had a conversation here and we were told a process is being developed. It's going to be done. Something can come back quarterly, semiannually where you would be presenting to us what has come in and how you evaluated them and what we should be going forward. not having people come in from the community to do this work. So what is happening? Why is >> director >> uh through the chair? Thank you councelor uh Cretch for that question. Uh as part of a recreation master plan, yes, we do have a recommendation that uh speaks to partnership collaboration and partnership framework. Uh we have uh I have mentioned at previous committee meetings that we will be bringing back a a report uh on our framework. uh we are finalizing that uh very soon. Uh you should be seeing that uh within within the coming months. Um it has uh has been a lot of work in terms of uh understanding how we provide input into that framework and um whether that is through uh analysis of our needs from a technical perspective whether that's the equity uh lens that we put on it uh whether that is the financial lens as well and just the process of how we make available these um these opportunities. uh that that work is coming back to this committee very shortly. >> Counselor, >> in the meantime, how are we preventing this from continuing to be the case where again delegates are coming forward to ask these things uh when they should be directed to staff? >> GM meter >> uh through the chair the the challenge of unsolicited bids that we're we're we're a great they're great opportunities. Um, we also want to make sure that we are balancing that along with all of the needs that we may have already identified through staff and that we certainly will take this back in context of all the broader requirements. However, the issue of unsolicited bids across not just as it relates to recreation is something that we've been discussing about having to have a protocol and a process around it and we'll be I'll follow up and report back on where that's at. councelor. >> Yeah, thank you and respectfully. We had that conversation two years ago and you said that two years ago to be fair. We had that conversation about unsolicited bids coming here. I'm sure they come elsewhere. I really want to get a sense that what's going to happen is if someone reaches out and says we have an unsolicited bid. There's a staff process that you use to say, okay, you won't be coming forth a delegation. We're going to come forward with a quarterly report where we're going to outline all the successful bids with a rating system or some other method and then all delegations are in the future are held until that's developed. Is that a reasonable expectation? because I think it puts again puts everybody I think in a bad situation when we keep doing this. >> GMater >> through the chair. Um note it. We'll report back. >> Thanks. Um do you need a motion for that or is it something you don't need a motion for? Because I'm I'm I'm happy to bring one forward for council. >> Director Seora, I was under the impression that this was already done by this committee >> through the chair. Yes, it's an outstanding um um business item. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Tom Jackson. Questions of staff. >> Well, thanks, Chair Clark. That was a fair number of statements from the War II counselor. Long preamble that got to couple of questions. So, I appreciate a little further indulgence, please. But I do have a couple of questions. >> I provided you similar context in your questions to the delegates. So, go ahead, sir. >> Thank you, Chair Clark. Um, I'm going to get to a question to Director Seavore, but um, I'm with Councelor Crutch to a certain point, but then that's where I veer off. Um, I I love encouraging local organizations, institutions, I'm getting to a question, that want to come forward either voluntarily andor as a corporate entity, i.e. in this case Hfield and Mohawk College that say there are opportunities. However, my question through you to director Seavore to councelor Cretch's point about look this has got to stop. My understanding is that certain groups I'll speak to the ones that I have engaged and have approached me. I have immediately sent them, Chair Clark, to city staff to have that discussion, which is where the war council wants it to begin. However, at some point in time, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, Director Seavore, staff go so far in their ability within the confines of city policies cannot go any further and hence a delegation has to come forward to see if there's political support to then refer it to staff to add the authenticity they need through you, Chair Clark, to director Seavore. Is that possibly the case? Correct me if I'm wrong. Director Zavour uh >> through the chair that's typically has been the case in terms of the process that we've undertaken. >> Okay. So in other words staff have been presented with whatever proposal but at some point they can only go so far without bringing forward official recommendations because it's been unsolicited whatever the the category has been. Hence, these groups have had to delegate before a political body in order for us to say yay or nay. Let this go forward for further assessment by staff. I want to get that perfectly clear, director Seavore, because councelor Kretch is on a principal point. Why are they here? My understanding is the past uh two years the two groups that I've been familiar with now today Mo College they are here because staff can only go to a certain point in your assessment without political direction again through you chair Clark to director Seor to just reaffirm that or correct me if I'm wrong. >> Director Seavore if you feel comfortable answering the question please proceed. Yes. Uh through the chair, uh to the councelor's point, uh yes, that has been uh the the case in terms of our process. >> Okay, >> so um that's my questions, but I do have some comments before I'll try a motion later. Thank you, Chair Clark. >> Okay. So, if you try a motion, we'll have the comments then, right? Uh Council Moren Wilson, questions. >> Sorry, I didn't put you on. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, S. >> Thank you. I I appreciate the insight and comments from both of my colleagues. I think they've been very helpful. I think though what be would be helpful still is um understanding the process that is used by professional staff in that assessment where something cannot be assessed further and then they direct it to make the stakeholder to make the case politically. Perhaps if we had insight into that decision making tree, we would be able to we'd be better equipped to ask the question, well, why here? Why now? And why not there? Does that make sense? >> Directors of board. >> Uh thank you through the chair. Um I I guess I I would answer that uh with the with the understanding that there is information that we are presented with uh from uh any community member or organization. Uh we do try to provide uh an analysis of that information through the information that is sent uh to us. Um typically what we are looking for is uh an assessment of the viability of that project and uh typically that has been in the form of a business case so that we can look at the figures look at uh the impact to the community uh look at the benefit to the community and provide analysis on that uh from from the information that we do have. One of the gaps that we uh have talked about today is the process and and and one of the things that we've talked about in the past is again coming back uh to committee and council with how that uh should be um flowed through and implemented from a transparency perspective, from an awareness perspective so that when there is an opportunity for the city um that is available to the community that we provide u you know a transparent education and awareness awareness and publication that here here's an opportunity that uh we have how we go about evaluating that uh and u the process of of of having uh you know an assessment of that piece. So that is what we're attempting to do and and again that's what you will see coming back from our a staff perspective in terms of our collaborative uh framework for community collaboration. counselor, any followup? >> So, the assessment that you'll be using to evaluate any business case in a proposal, whether it be partnership or otherwise, would be done upon a referral from this body and not until then. Is that what you've said? director >> through the chair if if you can expand upon your your question again councelor I'll try um I thought I heard you say through the chair director Savor that before you can begin the work in assessing any proposal um you would need direct direction from committee and council to do so. You used the ca you use the word assess a business case. Are you saying that that is before you can do that you direct the party here in order to empower you to do that? Is that what I heard? director >> uh through the chair in terms of having staff devote time um capacity effort uh yes uh typically we would get direction from committee uh to have staff uh provide uh the the work to do that assessment. >> Okay. Thank you. So just so I understand then the process that is to be forthcoming. There's not sort of um a formula that you would automatically give any expressed interest to say if you you want to engage with us you're going to have to produce this kind of stuff and that way it wouldn't be I don't mean this in a porative way wouldn't be politicized you would come forward ultimately and eventually with um a short list and recommendations and perhaps evaluation I'm just trying to understand that which is forthcoming and what exists now so that you're not put in this also situation >> director >> through the chair. No, that is exactly uh the case in which we're trying to uh streamline. So in the past or currently we do need authority to uh to work on on uh projects and initiatives from a staff perspective uh in order to uh take advantage of the opportunities that the the community might have. Uh yes, it's our intention to outline uh a number of parameters that will allow us to streamline the process, allow greater transparency, allow uh for uh effective analysis of all those opportunities in a way that uh should not be prescriptive in terms of having to come and wait for those opportunities, but uh proactive in that sense. >> Thank you. And in my simple mind, I'm equating it to almost a formal consultation with a developer, for example. in which the planning professionals set out the requirements that they have to fulfill in order for their application to actually even enter the assessment process. I don't have anything to do with that. I'm not deferring developers to professional planning staff. They there are professional requirements which they have to fulfill in order and then ultimately the proposal perhaps comes to the planning committee um with a recommendation um and the committee has to make the assessment accordingly. Okay, thank you. I think I got it. >> Thank you. Um, Vice Chair Wang, can you take the chair for me, please? Just a few quick questions. So, I'm strugg I'm struggling to understand what the process is now. So, if I recall correctly, there are at least two unsolicited proposals that have come in with regards to Mohawk Sports Park. And now we have another unsolicited proposal that has come in for ostensibly Hillfield Strath Allen Mo College shared. I may have been incorrect in making this assumption, but I was assuming that staff were looking at the two unsolicited bids and they were going to come back and recommend how we would proceed in the assessment of those bids. Is that correct or am I mistaken >> through the chair? No, that is correct. those um two outstanding um unsolicited proposals are to be uh referred or are to be reported back by uh staff uh shortly. >> And to be fair, those two unsolicited proposals are for the same property, just different operators. >> Through the chair, that is correct. It's for the same property. And to to note, uh it's on city property. >> Yes. And um so now this particular unsolicited proposal with no disparagement to Mohawk College or Strath Allen just that's what it is an unsolicited proposal. It's on their property and in essence they're asking us to partner with them with a capital grant to assist in the creation of that field. Is that your understanding? >> Uh through the chair that is uh correct. I I I would also have to note that uh uh my expertise is not uh in the procurement but the we do also have to follow the procurement bylaw as well and so there's differences within those uh uh other uh proposals as uh as it relates to this one. Um I I think in terms of >> and that's because it's different property. One is own the property is owned by the proponents. The other one is owned by the city. One is looking at an operating model different operating models of two applicants. This one is looking at how they would in essence develop this sports field with the assistance of the city >> through the chair. That is correct. So, do we have currently existing policies and frameworks that establish how unsolicited bids come into the city and how we deal with them specifically in the recreation area or we take them one at a time and try to deal with them? What are we doing? GM Mater please >> through the chair. I'll take this one. Um that's exactly right uh counselor that we do not have a formalized process and so to this point as Steve has indicated that most of the the process has been well the proponents approach us we have to some initial discussions we bring it back we direct them back to committee for them to make a um a presentation and have then have direction to staff to ensure transparency that we're not having separate individualized um engage engagement on a on a location or a land or project without direction from council committee and council. >> Okay. So, um Vice Chair Wang to GM Mater, what are we expecting with regards to the two unsolicited bids that are already received at Mohawk College? Is your expectation or staff's expectation that they have sufficient information to assess those or you're going to come back and say in order to make this a transparent and procedurally fair process here's how we're going to proceed >> through the chair. So um those had been through they've had delegations here in the past those on the other several >> Yes. And that's at Mohawk sports park. So staff um Steve and his team have been working on it. We're going to be bringing a report back on the whole process and about what any opportunities may be and to look for some direction. >> Okay. And so on this particular process which again is is unsolicited. Um the suggestion would be what we receive the report and staff review it and come back and advise us how to proceed. through the chair. Yes. >> And equally, I would appreciate consideration by the the bench in terms of the drafting of a policy as to how we deal with unsolicited bids cuz they keep coming. Um, sometimes it's for city property, sometimes it's not. And we don't have a process. And I have candidly uh felt rather uncomfortable sending them into the ether because the proponents it just disappears. So now they're wondering what's going on and then they start sending letters and emails to counselors and calling us and we're supposed to be the ones that shake the tree to see if anything falls out of the tree. um without an a bonafide transparent policy that says this is how we're going to deal with it and here you go sir this is how we will deal with your unsolicited bid so you know where you stand we're going to continue seeing this problem do you concur >> through the chair very much because I would very much like a policy as well >> thank you I'll take the chair back >> okay >> councelor Cameron Crutch second time Please. >> Oh, I didn't turn you on. You got it. Sorry. >> Thanks. I want to be clear about what the language is in the motions. I remember going back. So, when we say we're referring something back to staff across the board, when we refer something back to staff, it doesn't necessarily mean that staff are going to come back with a plan and a proposal, a timeline, or it's endorsed or it's prioritized or has political support. All this from my perspective is brand new information for me that that what we're doing here is sending delegates here to get political support for their idea. So can you help understand what is going on here because and I have some follow-up questions once I have an answer because this is news to me. That's not what the motion says. >> Do you Mater? >> Um through the chair to the counselor. I'm sorry I'm not quite following. >> I don't understand what's happening here. So my understanding is that we refer things back to staff all the time. All that means is it came here, we listened and we said we're going to send it back to you and then you do whatever you do as political as professional staff, pardon me. You do what you do and that sometimes means you bring a recommendation forward. Sometimes you don't. Whatever it might be. What I'm hearing here is that we're asking delegates to come forward to this committee to get political support so you will do work. And I'm just saying that's not what the motions have ever said. So where is that coming from? I don't understand that. That's what has been said here today. >> But to be clear, I didn't hear that from the proponent. >> No, I'm not talking about the proponents. I'm asking staff. >> Just to be clear, I don't want to disparage them. >> Again, I thanked them at the beginning and we'll continue to thank them for trying to partner on these things. This is a procedural matter. >> Director Seor or GM or whoever wants to take it. >> So through the chair, so I apologize if there's any been confusion on this. This has been the process in the past where when we wanted to ensure transparency that everyone was aware that this opportunity had come forward and that we're looking for some endorse not endorsement some um acknowledgment that this is an opportunity and to direct it back to staff for further followup. >> Counselor. >> Right. And so I'm just saying that's not what the motions have said in terms of they've been really boring motions. there just been a motion to refer. So, I never understood that to be the case. My second question is that we're talking here about a lot of unsolicited bids, but there are many, as far as I can tell as a counselor, in this short time I've been on council, there have been other unsolicited bids that have come forward that have never come here for political support, have shown up for council approval and been approved and have come through recreation services to be approved. Those weren't solicited by us that other people came in and they asked us, "Hey, we have this opportunity. We want to partner with you on something. We want to do something." And we say, "Sure, put together a recommendation report." when it comes to council. So, I don't understand the the different levels of unsolicited bid here. Um there's groups in W 2, for instance, who want to come forward and I've told them in the up to now, no, don't be parading down here to ask for us to support you politically, work with city staff. So, I'm just really caught in a situation where I'm not sure what to do now. Should I just like should I be asking groups to be coming here every meeting? Because I can do that. I just think it's counterproductive. That's what I've been told. Anyways, >> direct no >> uh through the chair I think uh obviously from a a service provision there's many different opportunities for the community to collaborate with the city uh many different opportunities that the city can ask for support uh whether it's through service provision all the way through a broader spectrum in terms of third party operations I think one of the things that we uh are intending to provide provide is clarity on that. Uh there there's a level of authority that uh is required for different aspects. Uh whether it's a it's a a simple room request um provides services on behalf of the city. um again through that spectrum of a thirdparty operator and there's I guess a bit more uh detail as you cross that spectrum in terms of uh a larger um connection and larger um development uh and collaboration with the city. What we intend to do is to provide that clarity within that collaborative framework that we will be providing uh to committee uh in in the months uh that are coming so that there is no confusion that we do have a good understanding both from a staff perspective and also from a community perspective of what the expectations are uh what the parameters for analysis are uh and implementation as well. So we hope to provide that clarity uh within that collaborative uh community collaborative framework that uh we will be bringing >> counselor. >> Thanks. My last question is in the meantime what do I do? Because what I can tell you is going to be the perception now just so you know after this conversation is groups that are trying to get programming things coming online with partnerships in W 2 are going to ask me the question so counselor should I come to the next emergency and community services committee meeting? Should I wait till this process is developed? They're worried they're going to fall behind the queue now. like this is just that's just really truly how people feel. They feel like there's been I've spoken to them a preferential system for some and not for others. That that's how I understand it whether it's true or not. What do I tell them >> through the chair to the counselor? I think in that case counselor I would recommend that you refer them on to staff just as this process has been and then we'll do look for followup opportunities depending on what the what the requests are. In the meantime though, I do want to acknowledge though that uh director Aayako from procurement is here. If I'm just going to let her weigh in about the procurement process, please. >> Director Akoa, I see you way up there. >> Good afternoon, Tina, director of procurement and through the chair. I would just like to add some clarity to the procurement process and the questions that are being asked. The procurement policy allows uh policy six allows for unsolicited proposals and states if it is determined that there is a legitimate need for the goods and services offered by way of an unsolicited proposal then an acquisition method shall be conducted in accordance with the procurement policy. So at this time the policy is very open. Um it doesn't have a whole lot of parameters behind it. uh we are I have made a commitment to expand the procedure on this policy in the next iteration of the procurement policy. However, this means that if an unsolicited proposal is brought to staff and that p proposal is warranted or a really good idea, then staff either pursue it through a competitive process or through a non-competitive process. And if it's over 250,000 and it's a non-competitive process, then it comes to council for approval. So goods and services in my mind are fairly clear. We do have vendors who approach clerks wanting to come to council and present their goods or services for procurement. Um procurement works with clerks to dissuade these vendors to come to council. We ask them to present their information to staff for staff's consideration and then staff take it under advisement and consider whether they want to pursue it or not. And then if they want to do that then they proceed with either competitive or non-competitive procurement. That is your basic goods and services. This situation I'm not sure that's um would fall under a good or service because it is a partnership. but is a funding agreement and there are other levels of requirements. Um, but I just wanted to add clarity with respect to a true good or service under the policy. >> Counselor, >> so if I understand what you're saying, this this is both there may be further requirements on top of these if it was something that was not just a basic good and service. Is that my understanding director? director >> through the chair. If we were procuring something and there was it was a single source and it was over 250,000 the policy requires us to bring that to council for council approval. >> Right. So staff would bring a recommendation if I understand what you're saying is staff would bring a recommendation to council and then a recommendation would be on the table and then people will come delegate to that recommendation >> through the chair. Yes. >> Which is not what's happening here. I think I've asked enough questions. Thank you very much. I think I understand the answers to those questions >> and and just to be clear from my understanding of what has transpired here, there's been nothing untoward from Mohawk College or Strath Allen from coming here and presenting an opportunity for partnership with the city of Hamilton. It's completely compliant with the policies as they are written today. So, just to be clear for the public and the media there, there was nothing wrong with the approach that they took. It's quite common. It's been done before and we appreciate their consideration of of Hamilton's possible partnership. Uh, one last speaker, I hope. Councelor Tom Jackson. Thanks, Chair Clark, and thank you for summarizing that because that's exactly what happened the last couple of years with the two previous proposals as well. Thank you. So, I was just going to try for consistency sake with the previous two unsolicited proposals. I was going to try a referral motion and again no endorsation whatsoever as previously. I was going to try if I could get a seconder to refer the Mohawk College uh Hillfield Strath Allen proposal referred to staff for further analysis on viability in line with future city budgets. If I can get a seconder. Thank you. >> Thank you. Councelor Wang is seconding the motion. The motion is before us. Councelor Moren Wilson, please. on the motion. >> Yes, please. >> Just making sure I I understood it's the assessment is pertaining to budget but not what is set out in the master plan needs >> to budget >> to budget. He says, >> but you're you're assess the the motion's intent is to assess the proposal or the proposals uh within the capacity perhaps of the municipality to fund >> through you chair Clark to councelor Wilson. I believe this motion is in the same spirit of what this committee did unanimously in the last two years with the two previous unsolicited. I'm I'm not uh trying to um add any additional language and please through director Seavore um I believe that this language is consistent. Councelor Wilson, if this were to be approved, staff then now have, if you will, the ability, the authenticity, the authority to line it up, assess it both in terms of the plan itself, the business case as well as in line with future uh city budgets. I hope I've clarified that. I've just tried to be the spirit of it to be consistent. Councelor Wilson with >> I appreciate the consistency and I don't have the recollection that you have, sir. Um, and I wasn't suggesting anything untoward, but what I thought I heard from director Seavore was that he's developing a matrix which will assess whether they're solicited or unsolicited according to the needs of the master plan. And within that assessment, there are some particularities. We talked only about one today which is um the one of the things in the matrix will be equity and existing capacity andor existing facilities. That is not just a budget um thing. Your motion is directing the director to assess strictly according to budget. >> Yeah. But I'm interested in how the director what will be informing the director on how he interprets viability. Something could be financially viable but not meet any of the other matrix in which he has been directed to assess. >> Let's ask the director and GM Mater for their interpretation of the language in the motion so that we're all on the same page. uh through the chair uh to the counselor. In terms of viability, we would look at the the uh the the opportunity in the lens of a recreation master plan which provides a encompassing uh aspect. >> Thank you, counselor. Anything else? N >> councelor Cameron Crutch, please. Thanks, S. I just want to make sure if I support this motion, I'm not somehow giving preferential treatment to this project in any way, shape, or form. I understand if it wants to go back to staff to be looked at and staff can come back with a balanced analysis, but I'm just being very very on the public record here that if this is giving any preferential treatment to this project over any other one, I'm not going to support it. So, I want to be clear about that >> to the chair to the council. Absolutely not. This will be done in the full context of all of the needs within the master plan itself. >> Thanks. I assume so. as one for the record. Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor Nurendra Nan, please. >> Thank you, chair. Then I would really prefer the direction in the motion to be explicit. Um, appreciating what councelor Jackson's saying in reference to two other unsolicited proposals over the course of the last two years, but since then, we have adopted a Hamilton recreation master plan. And so the delegation be referred to staff uh to assess the viability against the needs and goals of the city's recreation plan and report back the analysis. I don't want to tie it to the budget process. I think it's more important to make sure that we have a sound analysis and then from there should committee or future iterations of the committee feel the analysis is warranted to then refer it to the budget process. I think that that needs to be an iterative process would be my suggested amendment to councelor Jackson's motion. >> Thank you. Jessica, do you have um draft language? >> Sorry. So, through the chair, I've tried to capture everyone's takes on it and I'll share something now. We'll share it and then uh that the unsolicited proposal submitted by Mohawk College in Hillfield, Strath Allen for the development of a high-performance turf facility be referred to the director recreation for review and evaluation as part of the recreation master plan, including an assessment of existing protocols related to unsolicited proposals, partnership opportunities, potential project liabilities, access agreements, and funding capacity in relations to the future budget processes, ensuring transparency and due diligence. That's what we have. Councelor Nan, you still have the floor. >> I really don't like doing motions on the fly for this reason. and especially among a committee of people who are very governance-minded. I think it's really important that we get the language right. I appreciate the LC's attempt to capture the dialogue around the table. Um I think it's really important to be succinct in this and clear so that staff have the direction that they need and are able to succeed with the direction that committee is giving giving them today. Um, so at this point, chair, I don't know what to say other than that's my preference and I I'm sorry I can't offer a suggestion. >> Okay. So, we have a couple of opportunities to us. We can meet offline and try to draft language that people are comfortable with. We can put this on the floor and see if it flies or we can refer it to council for better language tweaking between now and council. Councelor Moren Wilson, please. >> Thank you. Um, probably taking it offline would be prudent. However, um my understanding is what I heard Director Seore say is any any proposals solicited or otherwise will be assessed within the context of the recreational master plan and that is the publicly agreed upon matrix by this body which h the domain that decision rests with this body. That is the direction given by this body and that should be the matrix assessing any and all proposals. Just to my point to councelor Jackson was he didn't reference the recreational master plan. He only referenced the budget. That's not the matrix. The master plan is the matrix. So chair um your stewardship in this but that's my comment and I do appreciate the LC's um efforts on this. It is not easy. Thank you. >> Okay. Can you throw the >> Can you throw the language up one more time, please? Sorry, folks. And and I'm I'm with councelor Nan. I hate drafting on the fly, but I'll do my best with what I've got in front of us. Okay. Review evaluation as part of the record, including an assessment of existing protocols related to unsolicited proposals, partnership, project access agreements, and funding capacity in relation to the future So, uh, councelor Cretch, I see you're got your if we can put council crutch on. >> I think if the intention is that we're going to get a report back, then it should say that is all. I mean, I think this is really clear saying that it's going to go to the director of recreation and evaluation as part of the recreation master plan. That seems to satisfy a concern councelor Morgan Wilson has. I think that should that's fine as part of the assessment of the recreation master plan. We could stop right there with a report back um to a future emergency and community services committee meeting >> period separate >> by period. The rest of it is just all things that are already done as part of the process of evaluating something against the recreation master plan including the budget. Right? So I don't I think if we scratch that bottom part out it's just more concise. It's clear and there's not it's not it's not confusing for anybody and everyone seems to be shaking their head in in a yeserly direction. So why don't we just go with that? >> Thank you. So councelor Jackson, would that be a friendly amendment to your motion, please? >> It is beyond friendly and accepted by the W 6 counselor. How a tiny little referral motion began with excellent outstanding amendments to it. I am satisfied with where we're landed. Thank you, Chair Clark. >> Thank you kindly. Councelor Wang, you're good with it? Good. >> Councelor Nan, >> if we could just add the word artificial to turf, please, as I know that city staff are also artificial turf >> versus natural turf. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. That's in keeping with the proposal. Okay. So, let's erase that. And that is the motion that is before us. Moved by councelor Jackson, seconded by councelor Wang. Any further debate on the motion? Seeing none, I'll call the question. It's an electronic vote. We're having challenges with our computer. The Gremlins are loose again. They were in my iPad. Now they're on into Jessica's laptop. And I believe it was council crutch that taught me the terminology gremlins and computers. So if we can't get the vote up electronically, can we do it um old-fashioned way and record the vote, please, instead of Sometimes >> carried. Is that what you're going to say? Council Jackson mode is up. It carried seven nothing. Thank you very much to the delegate team that appeared here today. Much appreciated. Director Seor will be the next person that you would be speaking to on this matter. Okay, folks. We're now moving on in our delegation process. We are a little bit behind. Item 6.3, Sebastian Lec, respecting racism and hate in marginalized communities. This is an in excuse me an in-person presentation. Sebastian, please come down. Hello counselors. The reason I'm here today is to state. >> Let's Let's just get you comfortable before you begin. >> Is that better? >> Yeah. >> Okay. We'll start over. >> All right. Hello, counselors. The reason I'm here today is to state that our history is not hateful. And your attempts to paint it as if it is is unfounded and revisionary. We will not um approve, we will not accept the Sir John A. McDonald um monument in Gore Park being removed. And in fact, we will not relent until that statue is back up there in Gore Park where it belongs. You will not erase our history. Thank you, Sebastian, for your presentation today. Uh, the next presenter is item 6.4, Lyndon George, Hamilton Anti-Racism Resource Center, respecting item 9.1, hate and violence prevention. This is an inres in-person presentation. Lyndon, come all down to the microphone, please, sir. We'll do the two together. And while we're waiting for Lyndon, I would like to recognize former city councelor Judy Partridge. Yes, councelor Jackson saw you sneak in. Thank you. >> All right. >> Okay, we're all set. Whenever you're ready, Lyndon, your five minutes begins. >> Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Um, I I realize here today it's more poignant for me to be in person more now than ever. Um I recognize there are opportunities for individuals to uh brief this committee and maybe my slide here is a poignant one about um just based on the previous conversation. Um I want to begin by acknowledging the seriousness of the issue before us. over the past year in Hamilton has seen an increasing a concerning increase in hate activity and racist symbolism appearing in public spaces across our city. In 2025, Hamilton experienced a notable rise in racist and hate motivated graffiti and symbolism in parks, public infrastructure, neighborhoods, and on personal property. HARK documented 42 reported incidents connected to hate symbols and extremist messaging appearing in public spaces. These are not isolated acts of vandalism. Symbols matter. Language matters. Public displays of hate are intended to intimidate, recruit, provoke fear, and send messages to racialized, immigrant, newcomers, Jewish, Muslim, black, indigenous, and two L 2 SLGBTQ plus communities that they are that they are unsafe or unwelcome. It is important that city councilors, municipal staff, Hamilton police, frontline workers, and community agencies from familiarize themselves with hate symbols and extremist imagery and ideology. Hate groups continue to adapt their messaging and visual identifiers to avoid detection and normalize extremist ideology and public spaces. The image I have here I I wanted to post because uh it is located in the Corktown Beasley neighborhood and um this is uh known white nationalist extremism content that was uh posted in the pink tunnel and I'll talk more about it throughout the presentation. The images include included in this presentation are directly from community reports received by HARK. In particular, I want to highlight the community reports received on March 8th and March 13th regarding the white supremacist activity in Corktown and Beasley neighborhood. Reports dis described individuals posting white supremist, anti-immigrant, anti-semitic material throughout those communities. Among the symbols identified were the SS Bolts, a well-known neo-Nazi, and white supremist symbol. This photo is taken um from a video that was posted by white nationalist uh directly below uh where we are here now in the city forcourt uh during that time. These are some of the images that uh appeared uh during the March uh 8th and 13th. uh you on the on the on the left you see common white nationalist extremist uh messaging and then on the bike path was symbols and wording that they've used during their mass demonstrations and then you can see here where Ferguson station is uh wording regarding um uh anti-semitic wording that is uh that was on the on Ferguson station and this was on the location right beside at the thrift store as well. uh they have done their stickering campaign for a number of years in Hamilton and this is some of the content that we've seen particularly in the Beasley and Corkown area. The messaging also includes phrases and language directly connected to white nationalist and neo-Nazi ideology. As many of you are aware, Hamilton has also recently witnessed demonstrations involving extremist rhetoric and hate activities outside of city hall near Jackson Square and other public areas. More recently, individuals connected to the Courttown and Beasley activity posted online video appearing to show themselves in the area of the Pink Tunnel and War 2 during the same time frame as the March community reports. Almost done. These demonstrations are important uh are an important point. They the intent is visibility, intimidation, and normalization. When residents see swastikas, SSB bolts, and racist graffiti, or organized extremist propaganda in their neighborhoods, they experience fear, anxiety, and a loss of safety in public spaces. For many residents who experience racism, anti-semitism, islamophobia, homophobia, and political violence, these symbols are traumatic reminders of historical violence. This is why coordinated action is important. We cannot address hate incidents through isolated responses. Can I just have one more minute? Thank you. >> This is the video I mentioned earlier. I won't play it here today. I'm not looking to platform their messaging. I'm hoping to educate counselors on how they can educate their staff and also be a part of the change that we see. But this image is right across from Corktown Park. Um on the left hand side, blurry here, but is the uh the Cork Town uh pub and then the tunnel is directly behind it. These are some of the images you would have seen previously in reports publicly in CBC and Spectator. And these are some of the other images that we've seen and documented here in Hamilton as well. I wanted to point out here on the city's website an important point that we recognize the importance of it removing graffiti, but our website does not include information there that recognizes the rise of hate symbols and hate activity as well. and it's an important part in uh the city's coordinated efforts to update its website and recognize the community um and sending out information to community members on how they can be part of removing hate symbols and addressing hate. Just want to note this here and this is an important quote. Not everything that is faced can be changed but nothing can be changed until it is faced. I hope you will face this hate with us coordinating uh a response in our community and this is for staff as well on how they can also become aware of uh hate symbols in community. Uh this is on our website in our resource page as well and for uh tools and resources for your staff on reporting hate and finding support. >> Thank you very much Lyndon. Much appreciated. Don't go away. We do have some questions. Counselor Cameron Cretch is up first himself. My question for you is about the coordination piece and about where you see that being really important and that's the motion I'm going to be I'm going to be speaking to later so I won't speak to it now but I want to give you an opportunity to speak to what you see that looks like. What does that mean to you? I mean other people have spoken about that coordination piece and why it's important but I think since your mention in the motion it' be good to hear from you directly. I I think it's important to recognize what's happening in war 2 uh is happening in other parts of the city as well. And I think the motion is putting into action um a level of coordinated response discussion around funding resources that is necessary at the city level. Uh particularly this incident happened late at night in the evening and when there's not staff available um it can these symbols can remain active in community for you know a day or two until there's proper um until it's removed documented by police uh and thoroughly investigated. And for community it can sometimes undermine a sense that um civic leadership is paying attention to these issues that they're taking it seriously. Um you'll see that content online. I've reported it before. It's still up there. um they'll report to our website and we support and then we'll coordinate with city staff to check in or with the hate crime unit uh in order to see you know where we are on that. But that I think your motion speaks to the underlying meaning of coordination and uh and attention to the matter. >> Counselor, >> thanks. As someone who spent many years studying literature and history in school, I think it matters to a certain extent when we're thinking about what's happening at the present moment. And so I just want to give you an opportunity if you had anything to add about, you know, the city's history, what we faced here, what's happening right now. Do you see this as an urgent moment? Do you see this reflected in some of the things that have been happening here? Um, just want to give you give you a chance to speak to that if you wish to. >> I go ahead, sir. >> Yeah. Um, context matters and in community this is happening. It's happening online. We see individuals who will record um moments like this to then share on their social media to then go viral and say, "Look, this is what I'm saying to civic leaders. Um, white men stand up, white men fight back. You've seen them with their signs, but this activity is happening more and more online and um we need civic leadership to be part of it. Uh this is not new. We've seen uh the historical images of uh individuals and with the Kukas clan going down the road, we've uh we've had incidents here um where there have been, you know, individuals of a of a black man being arrested when their identity looking for a white man in fact. Um and so there are historical injustices that continue to happen in our community uh that are often in these individuals are left alone to stand up uh coordinate a response and I think civic leadership in supporting HARK and other community organizations recognizes the need and I think that is not just in one moment we can pass those motions and say we have these local organizations it's an ongoing uh to be an anti-racist means you know to be active in doing this work and this is part of the work that I think is so important. >> Thank you. Those are my questions. >> Thank you very much. Uh seeing no further questions, thank you Lyndon for your presentation. Please take your seat in the chamber. Uh I do need motions to receive items 6.3 and 6.4. I need a move and second for that. Moved by council, second by councelor Wang. Thank you very much. No councelor crretch, you wish to speak? Go ahead. >> Yeah, I'm not comfortable moving 6.3. The stated reason for the delegation is the opposite of the delegation we received. And as far as I'm concerned, it's out of order for a number of reasons, but completely out of order based on the context the clerk was provided with with why the person wanted to come here. What I'm reading in the delegation request, it said they were coming here to speak in support of something and they came here and spoke against that thing. That's my understanding of how I read it. And so, um, I'm not going to support that receiving that delegation. >> Okay. Dwayne have another mover or seconder for moving and receiving it. Nope. Councelor Moren Wilson, you wanted to speak to it before there's nothing before us right now. So, go ahead. >> That was the the same thing. I looked at the delegation request. There was a statement of intent. The exact opposite of action occurred. Um there was no identification of who who he was speaking on behalf of. There were no questions to be asked. So, I won't be moving it. >> Okay. So, item 6.3. I'm at a little bit of a loss now because normally the process is to receive. I have a motion and sometimes it's been voted down. No one's moving or seconding it. So, how do I approve this or how do I deal with it? Council Nan, do you have something? >> Uh, chair, I think there there's an opportunity to call the delegation out of order. Um, and I don't know procedurally if that requires a vote. Uh, I was at a bit of a loss in trying to do the research quickly as well as my colleagues uh to view the delegation request versus what was said. And um, again, no opportunity for committee to ask any questions. So, I I don't know if you can call something out of order after post Um and then otherwise I'm not comfortable moving or seconding. Definitely going to vote against receiving. >> Thank you. Councelor Tom Jackson. >> Chair Clark through Telc Versace. I just want to know what our options are. As you said, typically we move to receive. We can vote against receiving. I've done that in the past on unrelated matters. But if we don't even move or second it to get it on the floor to defeat it, what are our other options? Can we just be absent in terms of leave this in the stratosphere and absolutely nothing was done with it? And how would the minutes record that? I'm just looking procedurally. Chair Clark, through you, please. >> Thank you. >> I can add an electronic vote and you can vote it down. >> But it has to be moved and seconded and no one's willing to do that. >> And that's what I'm asking. Thank you, Chair Clark. Through the LC Versace, I don't mean to put you on the spot. This may be um unchartered territory, but I'm just trying to understand if we don't get a mover or seconder to receive 63 or turn down 63 after it's moved and seconded. Um what what's the status, please? >> We can move on and we can just move directly to 6.4. >> Oh, okay. Then I just learned something, Chair Clark. We could just leave it absent, if you will. and it was um the delegate spoke and we can just as a committee if you will dismiss it, ignore it and move on. That sounds satisfactory if that's the majority will of the committee. Thanks, Chair Clark. >> Thank you, Councelor Alex Wilson. >> Thank you through you, Chair. I think we're there. I'm If the minutes need to reflect was not received, I'm happy to put a negative vote on the table if that's what folks want to do. But if we're happy to just move to 7.4, that was my preference and I would be I think you have a mover and a seconder to put 7.4 for on the floor to be received. I think they're just hesitant to do both at once. So, I won't jump in there and I'll let you continue. >> I will sever out 6.3. We will ignore 6.3 and we will move to 6.4 which is Lynden George's presentation. Mover and seconder for that moved by councelor Crutch, seconded by councelor Moren Wilson. Any questions on that? Seeing none, we'll call the vote on that. And that's a show of hands. And that is unanimous. Thank you very much. Now moving on to items for consideration. Item C and item 8.1 CCR SAC260001 improved enforcement of snow removal bylaw to assist seniors and persons with disabilities. I'd like to call upon Holly Odoardi, director of long-term care and seniors to provide committee with an overview. >> Hi Holly. >> Hi chair. uh through the chair Holly Odardi, director of long-term care and seniors. Uh the city's uh uh citizens committee report uh outlines a proposal by the seniors advisory committee to improve enforcement of Hamilton snow removal bylaw uh enhancing sidewalk safety and accessibility for seniors and persons uh with disabilities. Uh, chair, we have uh Penelopey Petri here online, chair of our seniors advisory committee to speak to uh their citizen committee report uh and answer any questions uh that may be asked. >> Thank you. Um Chair Penelopey, can we put her video on please? Penelopey, are you there? Can you hear me? >> Hello? Yes, I'm here. >> There you are. Okay. Do you have anything to add to what uh director has provided us? >> No, just that the it's a senior advisory committee is really thankful that council did improve the snow clearing on bus routes and things like that, but we feel that um it needs it still could use some tweaking. And so we're proposing that bylaw be proactive rather than reactive. Thank you very much. Um, are there any questions for Penelopey or Director Ordi? Councelor Tom Jackson, please. >> Thank you, Chair Clark. Thank you, Chair Petri. Always outstanding leadership. you've been for I think two terms of council if not beyond on sack and and director ODRD thank you very much for um for your explanation of what's here before us as well and thanks to member uh David Broom who did if you members of committee if you look at the multi-page research of this motion member David Broom deserves so much credit of course with the support of the other 18 members of sack that brought before us here today. Now, as I mentioned when I was at the SAC meeting, I have some process questions and I want to ask them if I could through you to general manager Mater. If my colleagues would go to page three, therefore be resolved under A. The thrust of where the committee is coming from is to do more proactive snow clearing enforcement. That's the thrust of it. However, they also speak to the fact that they do want um additional other departments involved in terms of possibly extending uh what the city does currently uh with the snow clearing on transit routes. It is I see a multi-ep departmental approach to what the seniors have uh recommended here. So like if you look at Roman numeral 3 under a chair Clark further expansion of the cityled snow sidewalk clearing particularly in areas with high pedestrian volume seniors accessibility needs in other words beyond transit routes maybe those particular neighborhood streets that are collectors that they're looking at. So here's my question uh through you chair Clark to GM Mater. I believe that just reporting to the planning committee um it should either be either general issues committee because it's going to involve your department JMater potentially it's going to involve municipal law potentially it's also going to involve public works potentially if we're going to expand the program so should potentially it report back to GIC let's start with that question first through you chair Clark >> I think so but let's ask GMater >> through the chair to the councelor. Um that's a excellent question. Um I think I would agree that it likely should be coming back to GIC, but what I would like to do is to be able to take that back, follow up with um um LC Versace and with uh clerk Trenum just to confirm it and then maybe we can confirm at council next week. >> That's that's fine by me, GMater. Um that's fine. Uh because um um I didn't want to lose sight of that. And of course, SAC traditionally and procedurally reports to ECS. So, I'm trying to be mindful of the various requests they have with the thrust being more enforcement, proactive enforcement, get after those properties that aren't cleaning their snow within the 24-hour bylaw, but also if they're going to expand the program and want additional support from healthy and safe communities, then where should it land? Second question, their date of July 31st. I know why, Chair Clark, they put that in there. They're worried come this election fall season where this council will be in a if you will a lame duck position. They're worried that until the new con council whoever's here is constituted in mid- November if the report comes back past that it may not if there's good implementation strategy might not be in time for the seniors to see better enforcement come the winter of 2627. So, I'm inclined to leave the July 31st timeline in there, but I'm cognizant of staff's overloaded workplates. Through you to Jim Mater, maybe for a comment on the timeline, please. >> Jim Mater, >> uh through the chair that um that's those are excellent points and those are all exactly the reasons why. So, um you've been at this a little while. Um so, I think that uh we're we from staff's perspective, we will work towards that. we would really like to try and address the concerns within this term of council's um oversight. Um so let's stick with that and if we have a challenge then we'll report back on that. >> Okay. So to conclude for me chair uh Clark uh I'm satisfied uh in moving this forward today. Uh the seniors have done an incredible amount of work. They were, by the way, the new bylaw last term before the end of the last term of council, which included uh councelor uh Partridge and yourself and councelor Marine Wilson and councelor Nan. We it wasn't unanimous, but we voted to have the transit routes cleared, the city sidewalks cleared of transit routes. That was an extra uh budget pressure. I believe about $2 million annually, but the majority of the past council said it was important and sack unanimously was the driver of that recommendation. Thank you, Chair Clark. >> Uh thank you very much. So, just a reminder that the lame duck provisions from the province is if the incoming council enduring the election, if it's um less than 75% of the members are running again, then it can create that type of of a lame duck. So, we're not there yet. We only have one person who has indicated that they are not running. And I would remind members that this item actually is a conducting a feasibility study for a report back to whether or not planning or GIC you can make that change at council. Uh council moren Wilson please. >> Thank you. um because my colleague mentioned it um and to the delegate I didn't know whether you were aware but the decision to extend snow clearing to priority routes and transit routes was actually defeated 6 to4 at the public works committee in 2021 and only revived at the subsequent council meeting uh and succeeded on a surprise and everything everybody was surprised 9 to6 vote. So, I'm I'm pleased to hear um as planned that um once you demonstrate uh and respond to a need uh that the community actually enjoys that benefit um it uh it's a matter of equity and your safety and and in keeping with the city's vision. So to the clause uh that councelor Jackson uh underscored, I just want to make sure that's the intent. This this motion that you're seeking us to action is not just about increasing enforcement. It's to study the feasibility of further extending uh the sidewalk near snow clearing so people like yourself and others um can enjoy greater mobility in the winter. I just want to make sure I understand and we all understand what that uh content is. So, can you confirm that, please? And thank you. >> Thank you, Penelopey. Could you uh help us out there? >> Oh, can't hear you. Sorry, your microphone's not on. >> Yes, that that is correct. Um, >> great. >> We, yes, we we look at both the, uh, older adult population, but also the individuals with disabilities who, uh, also find it incredibly difficult to get around in the winter. >> Thank Thank you for making sure I was clear on that. >> Okay. So, um, we've had the presentation from the director. I do need a mover and secondary to put the report on the floor. Councelor Tom Jackson, Councelor Tammy Wang. Thank you. If there are no further questions on the report, I'd like to call the question for electronic vote. So this is on 8.1. Vote is up. It carried uh unanimously 7 nothing. Thank you very much. We're now moving on to item 8 8.2 which is the transition of the LGBTQ advisory committee to the 25 LGBTQ uh IA plus community leazison group. Councelor Cretch, please. Moved by councelor Cretch, seconded by councelor Wang. Thank you very much. Um, vice chair Wang, I'll be voting against this just in keeping with my continued opposition to community leazison committees. Thank you. Councelor K, you wish to speak to it? >> The question is being asked of the chair if we can do 8.2 and 8.3. They are basically transition of of advisory committees into community leazison groups. I don't see any reason not. So moved by councelor Kretch, seconded by councelor Wang, both item 8.2 and item 8.3. And on both of them, I'll just oppose it based on principle or my philosophy. Thank you. The vote is up. >> And that carried 6.1. Thank you very much. We're now moving on to item 8.4, 4 HSC26035 Canadawide Early Learning and Child Care 2026 Space and Funding Allocation. I'd like to call upon Jessica Chase, director of children's and community services to provide the committee with a brief overview. >> Thank you. >> I added the word brief. Just teasing you. >> Thank you. Through the chair, I will try to be brief. Uh my name is Jessica Chase and I'm the director of children's and community services. I'm happy to provide a brief overview of this report. Um, as part of the Canada wide early learning and child care agreement or seawalk as we've shortened it, the Ministry of Education provides funding and space targets to each service system manager for the expansion of affordable licensed child care. The report that's before you today provides an update on a recent reccalibration exercise that the ministry undertook resulting in an additional 333 spaces along with nearly 2.9 million in funding that will be coming to the city of Hamilton. These spaces need to be open and operational by the end of this year. So staff will be prioritizing those spaces that can be up uh running quickly as well as looking at the areas of the city where there's the greatest need as well as balancing nonprofit and for-profit spaces. This is good news for the city and I'm happy to share that our continued advocacy to the province has resulted in these additional spaces as last year we did have a reduction in the recalibration that they did last year. And while I'd like to acknowledge that this is good news, we do also recognize that the demands for child care continue to outweigh the number of spaces that are available in Hamilton and will continue to push for additional spaces in Hamilton to meet growing demands. >> Thank you very much. Uh so that's the presentation. I need a mover and seconder to put the report on the floor. Moved by councelor Wang, seconded by councelor Nan. Thank you very much. Any questions on the report? Yes, there are. Councelor Wing, >> this is great news. Thank you very much for this uh report. Just a question on your last point as we heard that it is still the demand is still out pacing the spaces. So how much of a dent did this make on our waiting list through the chair? Um, so I'll speak maybe to the um the whole time that we've had had the Seawalk agreement and the number of spaces and the dent that it's making and then I can talk a little bit about weight lists. So in terms of the dent that it's making, once we have the rest of these spaces up and open by the end of this year, we will have moved the access rate which looks at the child population compared to the number of spaces that we have available from 30% up to 36%. Um, so it is making a dent from that perspective. Um, we do know though that weight lists are still quite large. Um, and we have approximately 60,000 families on weight list. Now, I say that with a big caveat. Um, we don't have a centralized weight list in Hamilton. So, we recognize that especially because um, there are great demands on child care spaces that many families do put themselves on multiple weight lists. Um, and also the challenge that sometimes families will get a space and not necessarily go back and remove themselves. So, we know that that number is um over represented, but I think does speak to the uh continued demand that we have in Hamilton. So, we're making a dent. Uh but we certainly know that uh there's a continued demand. >> Thank you. Just as a follow-up question then, um I suppose this the rumors are still kind of true where even when you're the minute you're pregnant, you're trying to put yourself on a weight list. So, I guess that that's still kind of the case. Is that is that fair to say? that would be a pining might be your position. I'm not sure. >> I think I just want to get a better sense as to how long the wait list is possibly despite the fact that we heard that it is 60,000 that is on a wait list mindful that it could be duplicative or triplicative but um just a sense as in terms of the the wait time >> that would be appropriate. Thank you. through the chair. I would say wait times are they vary depending on how many um weight lists a family has put their name on uh the age of the child um if they're looking for a specific area in the city. So there's many many factors. Um I would say anecdotally though we do hear from families that do choose uh to put their names on weight list um when a child is born or even before. So um recognizing that the wait list can be long. >> Okay. My last question through you chair is around the availability of specialized type daycarees. Um my nephew in particular is on the autism spectrum and so finding a daycare for him is has been particularly difficult. So I wonder what's the what's what does that look like on the specialized daycare system >> through the chair? We don't have um what I would call specialized uh childare centers. In fact, we have inclusion policies for all childcare centers. So, the intent is that we would work with um childcare centers to support the inclusion of children with special needs across the entire system. Um and we do provide funding to um a couple of different community agencies that provide what's called special needs resourcing. So they would have staff that go in to support children with special needs and particularly support the educators in those classrooms to be able to build their capacity and ensure that the environment is supportive for those children. >> Okay. Thank you. Those are all my questions. Thank you chair. >> Thank you very much councelor Nan please. >> Thank you through you chair. Just picking up where councelor Wang left off. So the 30 to now 36% achieved. um what is our what's what's the target that uh the city of Hamilton is working with in terms of the total number of child care spaces we're aiming to accomplish in order to feel satisfied that we are advocating building uh a service level that meets our population needs >> director Chase >> through the chair the ministry of ed education actually sets a a recommended target of 37% um so we will be close to that but not quite at the 37% by the end of this year. >> Okay. And do you have a sense through you chair um how many more spaces equals a percent? How many spaces equals a percent? Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Sorry. >> I'm going to check and see if the team does. I'm not sure we have those numbers here, but we would be happy to get them. Does anyone No, I we'd have to get back to you with those numbers. Happy to take that offline. Counselor. >> No worries. Thank you. appreciate that because it's just always good to have that ever growing target um quantified for us as we continue doing our advocacy with the provincial government. The last question I have for clarity through you chair is um the balance of for-profit versus not for-profit and uh recognizing that we have both uh in operation here in the city. Uh it's my understanding that there is there a requirement by the province that there has to be a specific breakdown percentage of for-profit versus not for-p profofit in the allocation of the funding uh for the additional spaces >> through the chair. That's correct. As part of the Canada wide early learning and childare agreement, all service system managers were required to maintain the existing ratio. So in Hamilton, our ratio is approximately 80% nonprofit, 20% forprofit. Um if we are unable to maintain that, we have to ask for a special exception to the Ministry of Education. >> Okay. And then just to confirm, then those additional 300 plus spaces will go 80% nonprofit and then 20% forprofit. through the chair. Um that is our goal. We are working right now uh looking at the applications that have come in in the past with the goal of maintaining that. Um I will say that one of the challenges that we have is that we have tended to receive more applications from the for-profit sector than we have from the nonprofit sector. So up until this point we have been successful in maintaining that ratio and we are working really hard to continue to keep it at that 8020 split. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. I see no further questions. I did I get a mover and second? So the item is before us. Let's have the electronic vote, please. That carries unanimously. Thank you very much. We're now moving on to motions. Item 9.1 is hate and violence prevention. Councelor Cret, please introduce your motion and your seconder. >> Thanks. It's moved by me, seconded by councelor Nan. And there's been a tremendous amount of notice that this motion was coming forward. It was a notice of motion about a month and a half ago now, I believe. And then when the previous emergency and community services committee was canceled, it was moved to this meeting. So first thank the delegates who came forward those days ago to speak to it. Uh people who've offered support and advice on how to change the motion, how to make it clear. It's a bit revised from its original format. Just so it's really legible to the public about who we're going to be working with and how we're going to be working with them to ensure that this is addressed. As you heard from delegate Lyndon George from HARK earlier, the coordination piece is really important. I made sure to highlight that if we're not able to coordinate amongst ourselves in communities with the city, have leaders here demonstrate and staff here demonstrate publicly that we understand what's happening, we recognize what's happening and we're doing something about what happened to the extent that we can, then I think we're letting people down. the as much as it's maybe difficult for some people to accept Hamilton has a pretty dark history when it comes to this kind of behavior, especially racist behaviors. On the weekend on James Street North, a group of avowed white supremacists this past weekend came down to the CBC and had a political demonstration where they were congratulating themselves and people who shook their hands in downtown Hamilton in support of their message. A hundred years ago, the KKK marched down that same section of James Street North. If people don't think something bad is happening right now that requires our attention, they need to wake up. This is becoming a really severe issue in Hamilton. We do not see this level of engagement in other cities around Ontario. I can tell you because I sit with a group of 28 downtown municipalities outside of Toronto and people aren't telling me in those meetings when I talk to them that this is a rampant issue in their community, but it's a rampant issue here in Ward 2 in the last year and a bit. We have seen continued demonstrations by these individuals. They're not being stopped from doing this. They're not being dissuaded from doing this. And we're not coordinating around a plan to deal with it. It's really disturbing because the people who are most subjected to this intimidation, this hostility, this racism, this homophobia, and all kinds of other things that they're professing that I'm not going to repeat here are disproportionately racialized, equity seeking groups, queer folks, trans folks living in the downtown core. These are people live in the lower city who are most disproportionately, right, a larger group of people live in the lower city who are facing these issues. and we seemingly don't have a plan to address how to do that as a city with our partners that makes sense and gives the public confidence and trust that we take it seriously. That's really what this is about in some way, shape, and form is making sure it's taken seriously and demonstrating to the public the basic tenants of leadership as a council. The basic things that we can do here is just saying that we care about this issue. This issue is important to us and we're going to do something about it. We're not doing that at this point politically. We're not doing this at a corporate level. And it's because it's escalating. It needs extra attention from us. I'll also say I think we have to really rethink what the recommendations from the Bergman report after Pride 2019 told us that if we continue to go down the status quo road of saying, "Well, it's not a hate crime. We can't do anything. It must meet the legal bar of a hate crime. What do we do and shrug our shoulders?" We are not protecting the residents who live here. That report listed a very long list of things that can be done on public property. And the majority of the stuff's happening on public property. There's all manner of things that police can do. There's all manner of things that we can be doing as a city to enforce those rules. If we can chase after long weeds and grass, I'm sure we can deal with a bunch of racists who are out to harm people is my point. And the bylaws that we've asked for and the bylaws that that we put forward allow us to do some of these things. We're just not doing it in a coordinated way. I'm not blaming our staff here. I'm saying this is a rising concern. It's a concern that's been brought to everyone's attention and now is a time to do something about it. We can't keep uh putting our head under the rock and saying I wish it was different. I wish it was better. It's not impacting me. If any one citizen is being faced by this, every single member of this council has to speak up. If you're not on social media, that's okay. Make a public statement from your office the next time you hear about something happening. Go ahead. Just release a public statement from your office saying, "I know these things are happening and these are unacceptable." Because the people in your community don't see you doing it. They think it's not real. They think it doesn't exist. That's why local government is here. We're a local government. We're the closest to the people. We have to demonstrate more as a group of people together. We have to find ways to let people know that we care and we have to find ways to let them know that we're we're concerned about this. I'll say it again. On the weekend, for the third or fourth month in a row, folks have been down on the same place we had the KKK marching 100 years ago. If you don't think this is serious, wake up. Thank you, councelor. Councelor Nan, please. >> Thank you. Um, chair, I I earlier this morning I was like, h man, to have to talk about this again. Um, but that's that's exactly what councelor Crutch just pointed out. Yeah. uh we're elected representatives and you know whether you're subjected to various forms of hate or not the point is you have to talk about it and so part of talking about it is saying are we doing enough uh are we coordinated and if we're not coordinated uh then we miss out on opportunities and I think the delegate um executive director Lynon George pointed out a very quick win for us as a municipality ity which is under our graffiti reporting tool online to ensure that that section of our website has very clearly articulated uh the procedures and also how to identify hate graffiti and give our residents the opportunity of the digital tools to report um very explicitly so that we can also then as a municipality uh track when when the graffiti is hate based. I think that's a quick win. It's something that could be really done within 24 hours to 48 hours, maybe a week. Um, but it's that kind of coordinated action that would allow us to get to a quick win because the tools and the language has already been established and developed uh through multiple partners across the country in terms of being able to articulate some of these things. um the out of the abundance of activity that was happening in W 3, I took the onus myself under my W3 counselor's website to add an entire section dedicated to anti-hate. Uh that one is updated regularly to help respond to the request on behalf of WI 3 residents who wanted to become more informed about the type of ways in which hate symbolism has changed and grown over time because they want to be more vigilant and informed and uh be able to report it and also do something about it in terms of supporting each other when this kind of symbolism shows up in our community. It's that kind of proactiveness that's capable that's that's possible I should say when you are connected and working in a coordinated way. And I was able to do that because as soon as those incidences occurred chair I reached out to the Hamilton Anti-Racism Resource Center. I reached out to the Hamilton Center for Civic Inclusion. I discussed this issue with them. I went and talked to my colleagues at the Anti-Hate Network of Canada and a few other resources and we're able to quickly mobilize that resource to be available to the public through W3 counselor's website. That kind of stuff again doesn't need to be done in these individualized ways. As a municipality, we have the capacity to do this. Let's do it. We have the resources within our within our community. So appreciating the motion, really appreciating that uh a is hopefully going to result in quick wins and quick things getting done. But I also want to speak to D um chair specifically because it speaks to including trauma-informed and by spent by bystandard response training for committee council and staff. Um, on Saturday, the Hamilton Spectator had a featured article speaking to the toxic climate in which many elected representatives serve. In that toxic culture, included examples of misogyny. It excluded or included examples of homophobia, transphobia, uh, racism, anti-immigrant sentiment, etc. Um, we've said it many times around this table before that as colleagues and peers, we have a way of showing up for each other privately. It's another thing when we take the time to continue to raise our voices and not shy away from talking about the experiences that we go through as individuals because it also then models to our residents that they too should never stay silent. That's what bystandard response training and trauma-informed training enables people to do and I think it's critical. Um, I think it's yet again imperative that we take every step possible. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Nan. Are there any other speakers on the item? Vice Chair, if you take the chair just for a couple of minutes. I am supporting this. I appreciate the language that is in the resolution and getting the report back from um several organizations to assist us. I can tell you that my office and I have been hearing an increase in incidents of hate uh incidents at different commercial establishments, not with staff from those organizations, but conflicts that seem to occur inside the stores and and the language that is used and and I would argue um um violence that is used uh in those situations. We're seeing it in the parking lot. I had it reported to me uh by a neighbor down the street that he saw it outside the Forino store, you know, and and it it's unfortunate, but if we don't raise it, it stays as simply unfortunate. What we need to do is try to prevent it from happening. You can only prevent it from happening when you speak out and share that information. That's why I supported HARK all those years ago. It makes sense to me to have an organization that is not only working with the community, but is also um um tabulating the incidents that are occurring in the community. whether or not they meet the test under the criminal code or not, they're tabulating that information. They're sharing it. And as we do that, we educate a much broader uh um community across the city of Hamilton and they all can start doing that and they can all start looking out for each other. It's not acceptable um for folks, in my humble opinion, to sit at home and well, it's not me, so I don't have to really deal with it. It it could be your son or daughter. It could be your neighbor. And do you want them to experience it in the manner that has been happening? And we're seeing it. This is not um a dream. It's real. It's a nightmare for people. And so this type of work with the city uh I think is important. And so I commend councelor Cretch and Gia Mater and staff for working through this this resolution for us. I will support it here today and hopefully we can begin to start seeing some changes. To councelor Nan's point, um GM Mater, I'm hoping you took notes about the graffiti and and put changing that website. We have the ability to change things quickly when we want to. So, let's get that fixed up as quickly as possible and reach out to Lynden George and he can help you with the language that's required. Thank you very much. I'll take the chair back. Thank you, Vice Chair Wayne. Okay, seeing no further speakers on the item, uh, let's call the vote, please. What's up, folks? And that vote carried 70. Thank you very much. We're moving on to item 9.2, operating and maintenance agreement for Bernie Arbor Stadium with Spear Sports Group, Inc. Majority owner, Hamilton Cardinals Baseball Club, Ward Six. Councelor Tom Jackson, please introduce your motion and your seconder. I hear he's a nice guy. >> Thank you, uh, Chair Clark. Moved by myself, seconded by the W 9 counselor, Brad Clark. Uh, there's no delegation here. Okay. I just I get that right on the table immediately. Operating a maintenance agreement for Bernie Arbor Stadium with Spear Sports Group, majority owner, Hamilton Cardinals Baseball Club. I'm going to read it out because it's a renewal and with uh some elaboration to what's expiring, Chair Clark. So, if you don't mind for the public record, >> I'll just Thank you. I'm going to read it out. Whereas Bernie Arbor Stadium, a city-owned outdoor baseball facility within Mohawk Sports Park Complex in my ward is one of Hamilton's premier recreational sports assets with significant historical community value. Whereas the recreational master plan that's been referenced earlier today recommends assessing operating budget implications and partnership options prior to approving major capital projects as an alternative approach to address the funding gap. Whereas Bernie Arbor Stadium has served as the home of the Hamilton Cardinals of the IBL since its construction in 1970, providing recreational amateur semi-professional baseball opportunities to Hamilton residents. Whereas the Hamilton Cardinals IBL, I should have mentioned that's the inner county baseball league that they used to be part of has new ownership with the renewed vision for investment in the facility and long-term community engagement. Whereas the new ownership group has expressed a commitment to undertaking ongoing maintenance of the field starting next year, investing in upgrades to the stadium infrastructure. amenities, providing community access, improving the overall fan and community experience. Whereas precedent has been established in other municipalities where the operation of major baseball facilities has successfully transitioned from municipal staff to established baseball organizations. Whereas the current operating agreement between the city of Hamilton and these Cardinals organization is set to expire and a new agreement is required to enable long-term planning, operations, capital investment. Whereas the recreational master plan recommends the regular review of agreements with thirdparty operators that have dedicated access to facilities to ensure an appropriate and sustainable distribution of operational and financial responsibilities. Whereas the reduced maintenance responsibilities realized by city through this agreement will allow for a reduction in seasonal maintenance staff and a commeasured reduction in the operating budget of the public works department. Whereas it is the city's interest to provide certainty for both the team and facility through a renewed extended agreement that aligns with community benefit and stewardship of city assets. Last whereas the sale of advertising within the stadium provides a viable revenue source to support the maintenance sustainability of the stadium. Therefore, be it resolved. Chairman Clark, a city of Hamilton, enter into an operating maintenance agreement with Spear Sports Group, majority owner of the Cardinals Professional Baseball Club for Bernie Arbor Stadium for a 10-year term with two optional extension terms of 5 years. B. The operating maintenance agreement include provisions for online maintenance of the field, mutually agreed upon facility upgrades, and capital investment commitments by the Spear Sports Group. C. City Hamilton include the sale of advertising rights within Bernie Arbor State as part of the operating and maintenance agreement to offset a portion of the cost associated with the annual maintenance operations and capital improvements of this facility. D that the operating maintenance agreement include provisions that Spear Sports commit to providing meaningful consistent community access to the facility for the purposes of supporting high level amateur sports. D that the GM Grace Mater be authorized directed to execute an operating maintenance agreement with the Spear Sports Group majority owner of the Cardinals together with any ancillary documents to allow the ongoing use of city property and form satisfactory to city solicitor shields. I'd like to acknowledge uh chair Clark that Eric Spearan Eric just give a wave the owner of the Hamilton baseball cardinals that now operate and play under the Canadian baseball league the CBL is here with us today. I can't thank Director Steve Savor enough. The language of this motion is literally entirely his and I've appreciated so much him bringing this forward. And I want um committee colleagues to know that this was drafted a couple of months ago, but one of the biggest things I always worry about and I always want to have asurances over uh is that whenever we're entering into any third party agreements that there is absolutely no displacement whatsoever of existing groups and or that there is accommodations where additional sports fields within the vicinity uh can be uh can be accommodated and at Mohawks sports park. Of course, we got six other baseball fields and the um the the hope of this, if approved, is that the um Spiran Sports Group will take on much more of the maintenance and capital upgrades at Bernie Arbor Stadium, freeing up taxpayer dollars to be used elsewhere in other parts of the community. I want to say, Chair Clark, that um Eric Spearn uh Hamilton Boy left us for California. I'm so glad he came back a couple of years ago. Uh has been involved with baseball his entire life just for the committee's edification. The team was floundering on the field until his return. The stands, we had basically a hundred or two every game, a sprinkling of a few fans in that stadium. Since he's been back the last two years, the team has done miraculously well on the field making the playoffs. And maybe more importantly, we average now close to 2,000 people in the stands, families, kids. I've been there for several games. It's great to see. I'm going to wrap up. Chair Clark, if you just indulge with me just to wrap up, please. in W 6. We're very very proud of the East Mound community of partnerships and working with uh individual groups to both enhance the fan experience to provide greater opportunities to help to mitigate taxpayer dollars towards facilities. And I find when we enter into these partnerships, there's a tremendous additional pride of ownership that these groups take on while always recognizing this is a city-owned facility and will remain in perpetuity as cityowned. On the East Mountain, the Leotaa 4 Center is a great model from 20 years ago. We've emulated the Hamilton Hornets Rugby Club at Mohawk Sports Park. Uh I have the Hamilton Olympic Club with the Ray Lewis track and field complex. They poured a million dollars into that new facility 5 years ago and they're the primary users of that. Not exclusive, but primary users. Anyways, Chair Clark, I'm very, very strongly supportive of this. I thank you for seconding this and hopefully co council colleagues will see the value of continuing this uh renewed leasing agreement. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Director Seore, do you have anything to add? >> Uh through the chair, no. uh councelor uh Jackson has uh has eloquently uh stated the commitment and uh the benefit to the community. >> Eloquently, I note very well. Okay. Thank you very much. I see no other questions or comments on the item. Uh I fully support it as a secondary. Thank you for being here, Eric. Much appreciated and everything that you're doing for for for the league and the and the team. Okay, let's call the vote, please. Just a second. >> It's unanimous. No. Six. Nothing. Unanimous. Thank you very much. Uh, Vice Chair um, Wang, if you could take the chair for item 10.1, please. >> Thank you. As this is 10.1, this is a notice of motion. This is on the continuation of interval house wares program to address gender-based violence in rural Hamilton. I understand that we that councelor Clark would like to suspend the rules um of rules of order in order to allow the introduction of this motion. This will require a twothirds majority. So a mover and a seconder to suspend the rules. Please councelor Jackson and I I will second. Uh so this one is on suspension of the rules. >> Thank you. >> Vote is up. Councelor Nan. Okay. carries five to zero. Thank you. Uh councelor Clark, would you like to introduce your motion, please? >> Uh thank you very much. Moved by myself, second by councelor Tom Jackson. Uh this is the continuation of Interville Housees program to address gender based violence in the rural Hamilton area. Um I'm not going to read all of the whereases given that it's almost 4:00. Um but I would like to read out the resolution itself and speak to it briefly. Therefore, be it resolved that the city council approve a one-year funding agreement in the amount of $250,000 for Interval House of Hamilton for the continuation of the wears program for the period of April 1, 2026 to March 31st, 2027 period subject to the execution of a funding agreement satisfactory to the general manager of healthy and safe communities and the city solicitor on condition of the following funding sources are approved. I that the remaining $40,319 surplus from the existing Interville House agreement be utilized to continue service. Two, that 175,000 be funded from the block funded human service integration program in project ID 6502553101. And three, that the remaining balance of $34,681 be funded from the Children's and Community Services Reserve 112218 early years system. The approved funding support for the or sorry B that the approved funding support the continuation of rural outreach staffing, mobile service delivery, safety planning, counseling, advocacy and system navigation services for women and gender diverse people experiencing gender-based violence and intimate partner violence in rural areas of Hamilton. that funds be exempt on a one-time basis and not be counted towards any formula that restricts the regular funding from the city, including the city enrichment fund, eg the city's 30% formula. And finally, D, that the ongoing funding for Interval House of Hamilton to provide genderbased violence outreach services be referred for the consideration as part of the 2027 budget process. I did speak to the mayor uh about this motion and and she is fully supportive of the motion. I want to thank Interville House for bringing the rural counselors together to discuss the situation that they found themselves in. quite frankly they had uh un I guess more from a situation of happen stance that uh several funding agreements had lapsed and so as a result not knowing that if they had in the funding in place uh they were forced to issue notices of layoff to three of their staff which if you've ever been in that situation there's nothing more uncomfortable for you and your family and so they brought us into the room. Um, Council McMe was there, Council Mark Tatterson was there, Council Casar, um, Councelor Jeff Bey, and myself, and we met with them to talk about, um, what we thought the intention was originally, which in my mind was that there would be discussion with staff about adding it to the base budget. The challenge was it really wasn't in the original motion. And so no fault of anyone's it just it it fell through the crack. So speaking to the demand I have found in serving my rural award ward which 83% is rural uh women and children find themselves when they're sit in a in a situation where there is intimate partner violence violence against women most certainly abuse against children kind of alone. Um, here's what I have experienced in talking to women in my ward. And forgive me for taking the extra time. I appreciate the latitude. There's no landline in in many of these homes. There's only a cell phone and the husband, the father has a cell phone. So, and they are kilometers away in some situations 20 minutes out from the urban area with no transit and one car in the family and the husband keeps the keys. I saw that as a kid. Not easy for a family to deal with. The violence is behind closed doors. No one sees it and you don't go to school because you got bruises on your face. So you stay home cuz you're sick where in fact you were beaten to a pulp. That's what's happening in areas in the rural community and they are so far out and so isolated they don't know what to do. Calling the police many times is not an option because the husband has the phone. So, how do you reach out without putting yourself and your children in more danger? And I I won't share the anecdotal stories um but some of them are brutal. They've not hit the papers. It's it's it's bloody well scary. And so we had started this process with the generosity of councelor Ted Mcme offering money from, if I'm not mistaken, fly downs money. Councelor Mike Spataphora was the one that worked with Interville House uh to bring forth the last motion. And so in working with Interville House with former councelor Judy Partridge, um I made a commitment to meet with staff to see if we could find some way of fixing this situation. Um I met with uh GM Mater and I explained what was happening. Um she was excellent. We met with Mr. Zagaric and we found the different funding sources with a commitment to put it into the base funding for that department uh come 2027. So I'll leave my comments there. I do want to thank Interville House. I want to thank all of their staff, all of their volunteers. They do absolutely amazing work in a situation where sometimes they also are put um in the sight of violence. >> And so they see it, they experience it, they help women and they help children find safe spaces um to move on with their lives. And we we need to give them credit for that type of work. So uh I'll leave my comments there. Vice Chair, I thank all of you. I hope you will support this motion. I know it's an unusual one mid-stream, but I felt obligated that if we were actually losing um social workers who were helping women that we needed to fix it. Thank you. >> Thank you. And uh questions. So, I have councelor Moren Wilson. >> Thank you. I support the motion. That's not the essence of my questions. Um just seeking clarification through the uh vice chair through the staff. Um can you help educate me? Interville House is recognized by the Ministry of Children and Community Social Services as the lead agency for the provision of rural domestic gender abuse services in Ontario. Is there any provincial funding to support this pilot? Director Chase, please. >> Through the chair. Um there is um a small amount of additional funding is my understanding that Interval House receives from the province to support um their lead role as a rural supports. Um but from conversations that I've had with Interval House, my understanding is that that funding for rural supports would not be sufficient to meet the needs in the rural community. Chancellor and um the mandated community safety and well-being plan a long standing bugaboo of mine. It's was mandatory that we did it. We did it well. We identified six priorities, violence being one. We're still not in receipt of any provincial funding for that exercise either. >> Through the chair, that is correct. >> Okay. Thank you. Um the statistics in the whereases are alarming and also impressive in terms of the program deliveries as part of the budget process or in advance and forgive me if you've done this and I didn't catch it. Will you be giving an overview, an evaluation of the deliverables like in order for us to be held accountable for the monies and also frankly um to make the case to other orders of government that if you're identifying uh an agency is the lead organizer. We've shown that there's an absolute need. We have a program that's working. Perhaps a sustainable level of investment might be appropriate >> uh through the chair. So, we have embedded into the funding agreement with Intervville House a number of deliverables that they report back to us on. Um we would certainly report back to council either as a standalone report on that or embedded as part of our broader community safety and well-being report back. >> Thank you. And the final question is just a um a wording one that because of the change in the way our budget process is now done. I notice in D on the very last page it says for consideration of part of the budget process. We have modified some language more recently that it is it is the it is the mayor's budget um and it would be for the head of council's uh consideration in what they put forward for council's deliberation. Do you have any concerns with the way the wording is now uh through the chair? Um I don't have any concerns. We've actually worked with our colleagues in finance to confirm that that is the recommended wording. >> Oh, okay. Thank you. That gives me satisfaction. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions on this motion? Seeing none, let's have the vote, please. >> Vote is up. >> And that vote carries five to zero. Back to you, chair. Thank you very much to the committee for your support. Uh is there are there any other notices of motion today? Seeing none, we have concluded our business for the day. So this meeting is now adjourned. Thank you very