Sound check 1 2 3, sound check 1 2 3. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Thank you. Good afternoon. Welcome to the Emergency and Community Services Committee for May 28th, 2026. We have in chambers with me. We have Councillor Tom Jackson, Councillor Tammy Wang, Councillor Alex Wilson, Councillor Cameron Crutch, and by video we have Councillor Narinder Nann. Thank you all for attending today. As we have quorum present for today's meeting, I'd like to call this meeting officially to order. A reminder that all electronic devices that be switched to a non-audible function during the committee meetings so they don't dance on the table or they don't sing us a nice song. Um I need approval of the agenda. May I have a mover and a seconder to approve the agenda as presented today? Moved by Councillor Wang, seconded by Councillor Kretch. Uh just want to point out for everyone item 8.2 in the agenda and item 8.3. I voted no to both of those changes from an advisory committee to a community liaison group. It's not as clear for me, um but I spoke with the clerk and she made it clear to me that 8.2 and 8.3 were bundled together and I believe it was a Councillor Kretch that had requested that they do that together. Um so it's marked accurately um in the minutes. Just wanted to point that out. Anything Any other concerns or questions about the minutes? Oh. What do you mean? Oh, sorry. I'm ahead. All those in favor of approving the agenda. Thank you. Need a mover and a seconder then to deal with the minutes. Moved by Councillor Wang, seconded by Councillor Jackson. Before we go there, is there any disqualifying interests, any conflicts of interest? Okay, so that Now I'm up to date. We've already talked about the minutes. Let's have the vote on that. All in favor? Excellent. Thank you very much. Delegations, we do have delegations today. Uh we have Haveise Hussein, who is virtual, and then followed by Michelle McDonald, which is virtual. Um Welcome, Haveise. Can you turn your camera on there and your microphone? There you are. Okay, when you begin speaking, you'll have 5 minutes, okay? >> Okay. Um I wanted to ask through you, the chair, if I can have an additional minute. If I can request an additional minute. >> I can't make that decision on my own, so Councillor Wang is willing to move that additional minute. We need a seconder for that motion. Councillor Nan is uh willing to second it. All those in favor of giving uh the delegate an extra minute, and this will be an actual um electric vote. Electronic vote. Just be patient, everyone, while we populate the data in eScribe cuz it was not contemplated that there would be a request for additional time. Vote is up. Uh that vote carried 6-0. It's unanimous. So, Hafiz, you now have 6 minutes for your presentation, and Sal will time it for us. >> All right. So, I was just wondering if um the clerks could have the presentation presented, and then I'll just say next slide. But, thank you, um Chair Clark and members of the Emergency and Community Services meeting. Um thank you very much for taking the time this afternoon to hear my delegation. Um I wanted to delegate today on the Ontario Works Service Plan that's being presented in this agenda, and make uh where um this committee aware of ongoing concerns and issues when it comes to this single tier city taking its role seriously as service delivery manager um, for the Ontario Works program. Um, just wanted to go on next slide. Next slide by the clerks. Um, just to give an overview um, Um, Ontario Works is funded. So, the income support program is funded 100% from the province. So, it's a transfer of 100% that go that gets directly um, from the province. However, the operation the OPEX or the operation budget is a 50/50 split between the province and the City of Hamilton tax roll. So, the tax levy pays 50% of the total operating budget. Um, as you guys are all part of the budget process, there was a line item on there that in 2026 council approved 14,384,223 dollars and this is a 4.2 increase from last year to support 222 FTEs in this operation. Um, this is 50% of the portion because the province has also supported um, the additional 14 million based on my understanding. Uh, next slide for clerks. Um, just from a current province and service manager role, just to get everyone familiar. Um, Ontario Works a lot some of the functions that the City of Hamilton was in charge prior to 2024 have been uploaded and not to the province such as if there's a new case that needs to be incepted and if if an individual is applying for Ontario Works, that's that case mitigation is done through a centralized intake through the province. Um, if there's appeals through the Social Benefits Tribunal for if that recipient at the initial stage was not eligible for Ontario Works, um, the ministry handles that rather than the city in that prior. Um, Um, as more and more functions are uploading to the province in the service um service update report, there's no action plan as to what to do when it comes to FTE and staff. And so, if we've increased staff in regards to um increased cases, it doesn't reflect the current staffing model as to what are the current staff doing to um manage this program and its outcomes. And so, as this is just to give an overview that as more and more is being uploaded back to the province, what is the city's role when it comes to um overpayments, managing cases, trying to get people back to work, as well as improving the lives of these from life sustainability goals, but also the economy of the city of Hamilton. Uh next slide. Um, I just wanted to give you an overview to this committee of what's not working. Um, the 50% of the tax roll the tax levy that the taxpayers are paying of Hamilton has no return on investment. And throughout my understanding of this portfolio and being engaged with staff and seeing it first hand, the the user experience is very poor. Um, comparing it to how other service delivery managers in other municipalities and ODSP works today, it's not the same. You can't compare apples to apples. There needs to be improvement when it comes to customer service. Um, the the public, as you can see from correspondence, but also from delegations and complaints, um there's a lack of trust right now at City Hall and especially this portfolio. Um, there needs to be more discussions with stakeholders including housing providers of how to um Ontario works. There's ample fraud and waste and this is clearly evidence as the auditor general's looking into this. Um, the city currently has $57 million in inactive and active overpayments as of December 2025 and there's no plan to collect this. So, it's um it needs to be looked into. Um I know from city council meetings some of the councilors have raised that there's a lot of people that are coming from other municipalities to Hamilton, and that might increase the result of Ontario Works in the case workers. So, the other municipalities are not picking up their fair shares and just dumping that cost to Hamilton taxpayers. Um I know one of the measurement goals that staff are going to present today is employment outcomes. However, the city's technically not responsible for employment Ontario anymore. So, I'm not sure why that measure is currently being measured against the service of the portfolio, but measurements such as quantity of overpayments, accountability should be included in the department's performance outcomes. Um also, I did examine some job descriptions that were posted publicly, and not in hiring for case managers, and none of these job descriptions ask for financial acumen or audit or finance skills. It's all So, I think it's a current missing skill set that there needs to be fraud and waste, but also that kind of skill set when it comes to hiring case workers and staff in this portfolio. Um in addition to creating an economy, this the city should work with McMaster and and Mohawk College for research and job training program. So, if one of the goals is to get people back to work, why aren't we using our local talent and our local force and buy Canada? Um the value of money's there. Like, the budget has increased 14.5 million is on the tax roll that the city's paying, but yet the department outcomes are not being met. And then also, in addition, we need to introduce AI and automation when it comes to case management as well as mental health, not just increase staff. Staff FTEs is not the answer to for a burden of when it comes to financial stress that the taxpayers are facing. Um to end it off, I wanted to give some important stats for 2025 for this committee to be aware of. In 2025, 131.3 million dollars was given in income support um, to support 13,050 cases in Ontario Works. And this was provided from staff through FLI through journal entries. Um, 4.3 million dollars was reported to staff in AFNA on January 15th as total overpayments. 57 million dollars is outstanding for um, collections of overpayments. And it also came to my understanding this morning that in the POA side, 68 million dollars is is outstanding for collections. So, from one department to another, there's a constant issue that this city has a collection problem when it comes to recoveries. And there needs to be collaboration amongst departments to have revenue services take this function over to collect overpayments regardless if it's POA or Ontario Works um, as one reconciled recovery. Um, operations, the total expenses is 28 million dollars. So, overall, what is the value of money our taxpayers getting by spending 159.3 million dollars in managing this portfolio. Just to put some light to it, the police budget was 224 million in 2025. 25, the fire department is 115 million, and HSR was 111 million. So, this portfolio and this line item is often overlooked, but it's a substantial expense that this as you members of council need to take some oversight and accountability. Um, so what is outrageous? It is an outrageous amount. So, what is it going to be done to restore transparency and accountability to the taxpayers of Hamilton? Thank you. >> Okay, thank you very much. Thank you very much. If we could take the um, please. So, Thank you. Just trying to get the screen down there, Have Ease. Thank you. Are there any counselors that have questions of Have Ease? They may end up having questions of staff later based on your delegation. And there are no questions. Thank you very much, Have Ease. If you want to uh turn off your mic and and close your video screen, you can actually pick up the feed on YouTube and and hear exactly what's happening if you wish. The next delegate today is Michelle McDonald. Michelle, um if you could turn your video screen on and your microphone so that we can see and hear you. There you are. Good afternoon. Can you test your mic? >> Perfect. Okay. >> Uh Michelle, do you have a a presentation that we have to load up? >> No, I'm just going to read it. >> Okay. And you know you have 5 minutes, right? >> [snorts] >> Correct. >> As soon as you begin speaking after I uh saying hi, we'll begin timing. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh chair and members of council, I'm here today because many taxpayers and high housing providers have lost confidence in the administration and oversight of the Ontario Works program within the city of Hamilton. The city appears far more focused on taking a hard approach towards landlords and housing providers than addressing the real financial issue taxpayers are increasingly concerned about. OW overpayments and the apparent failure to properly detect, monitor, recover, and prevent them. Landlords are repeatedly expected to absorb the risks associated with a broken system while the city fails to demonstrate that it is effectively protecting taxpayer money. This issue is not about attacking vulnerable people who legitimately require support. OW is an important program and should absolutely exist for those who qualify honestly and unlawfully. The issue with accountability. Documentation already shows that the city possesses legislative authority to investigate eligibility concerns, demands paper demand documentation and conduct verification reviews when concerns arise. Yet, despite these powers, serious questions continue surfacing regarding overpayments, weak verification process, interprovincial moves and undeclared living arrangements and conflicting information that appeared to go unchecked or unresolved for extended periods of time. What's even more concerning is the repeated message from city officials that only egregious overpayments are pursued or prioritized. But, taxpayers still cannot get a clear answer. What amount is considered egregious? Is it a thousand? Is it five thousand? 20? 50,000? As a taxpayer, I find any overpayment to be egregious. Right now, the city of Hamilton is running at a tally of 56.98 million in overpayments, active and inactive cases as of December 2025. It increases approximately 300,000 every month in active cases. At this point, egregious is not applicable and action is needed versus fancy words like egregious. Every improperly issued dollar is taxpayer money. Every dollar matters to residents who are already struggling under rising taxes, inflation, housing costs, utilities, and declining public trust in government accountability. If an overpayment exists, it should be investigated and collected regardless of the amount. That's how the real world works and tax for and for taxpayers on all levels of government. No private business could survive operating under a model where losses are ignored simply because they fail. They fell below um some unidentified internal threshold. Yet, taxpayers are apparently expected to accept exactly that logic from government administration. The issue is not just the dollar amount. It is the culture tolerance toward financial leakage, weak oversight, and inconsistent enforcement. When small overpayments are ignored repeatedly across hundreds or thousands of files, the accumulation the cumulative financial impact becomes substantial. More importantly, it sends a message that oversight standards are flexible and accountability is optional. Meanwhile, landlords who report concerns or discrepancy often feel they are treated as adversaries rather than stakeholders trying to protect the integrity of the system. The city city's priorities appear backwards. Hamilton residents are repeatedly told controls are in place, yet public confidence continues eroding because the observable outcomes do not match the assurances. This is no longer simply about administrative mistakes. It's about financial stewardship, transparency, competency, and whether the city is exercising proper oversight over public funds. The city must stop treating landlords as the primary problem while ignoring the financial leakage occurring inside the system itself. Recover the overpayments and stop stonewalling with fancy words like egregious that is subjective and not defined by an amount. The city O W program has additional resources available to them for collection. It is considered crown debt and the CRA can collect on behalf of the city on new, active, and inactive overpayments as of October 1, 2024. This needs to be utilized for a level playing field and will prevent future misuse and fraud. Protect all taxpayer money, restore accountability, and rebuild public trust before even more residents, taxpayers, and housing providers lose confidence entirely. You are in a trajectory trajectory there as many landlords are done taking egregious risks with lengthy process to evict if required by the LTB to house those on public assistance. Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Michelle. Uh counselors, do you have any questions for Michelle? Counselor Wang, can you take the chair for 1 second, please? Um Vice Chair Wang, I'm trying to understand the relationship between property managers and housing providers and Ontario Works program. I'd like to hear from the delegate in that regard. What How How does that pro- What What's the impact to the property manager? >> Michelle, please. >> Uh >> [laughter] >> I used to have uh I had seven rentals and I had um I had people collecting OW in my properties and I would get letters from the city and they were never tenants, which is interesting because the letter came through my email with the city, yet never was I contacted to even verify a lease. Take a chance on someone. The next thing you know, they stop paying rent. However, they still continue get OW. Um I have an investigation here um that was during a time they were They were never even a tenant. And the second person the investigation was on, they had already moved out on June 30th of 2023, yet they were collected until May 2024 even after I reported. >> Counselor? >> Uh thank you. Uh Vice Chair Wang, um is it your submission that these events for you are atypical or from your discussions with landlords and other property managers are you finding that this anecdotal story that you're providing us is consistent with their experiences as well? Do you understand the question? >> Yes. Yeah, I'm part of a landlord group and it is a systemic problem where leases are not verified. Uh they make up their own leases and present them to the to the department uh for approval. There there's a there's definitely a gap in verification. Um to say that they can't get hold of owners or even I mean everybody on the tax roll they have our email address. I mean they seem to be able to get a hold of me for everything else. Yet why not verify a lease? Um I I met a lady Aisha and she had I believe it was eight or nine people collecting in her property. >> Okay, and the last question that I have Vice Chair, I think I still have a bit of time left. Um you and the previous speaker speaker or delegate I should say, uh these have spoken about and used the term crown debt referencing the City of Toronto somehow declaring that all overpayments all collections that they're trying to get become crown debt, which are then collected at some future date date to the Canada Revenue Agency. Can you speak to that? That It sounds like a a brand new or relatively new process. >> Uh it's been since 2024. I believe it was October 1st that this is a possibility. Um I know you know, Hamilton is not applying it. Um I believe we were advised that it's not available to them, which is odd because it's available to other single-tier cities. Um I've really tried. I've really tried being a housing provider. And I I had I'm not saying I had all bad luck cuz it's that's not it at all. I really tried. I just had to sell my properties in Hamilton cuz I just feel like Hamilton is stuck in 1999. It's just there's no new systems where it gives you a level playing field. >> Okay. Thank you for that latitude. Uh Vice Chair, I'll take the chair back now, please. Thank you. Any further questions for Michelle? I'm seeing none. Thank you, Michelle, for appearing today. Um we can't ask questions of staff at this point as it's a delegation on the agenda, but the item is coming up later in the meeting, and I'm sure questions will be asked of staff. Um I'd suggest that you log out here and then log in to YouTube if you're interested in following. Okay? >> Thank you. >> Thank you for your attending today. May I have a mover and seconder to receive the delegations? Moved by Councillor Jackson, seconded by Councillor Wang. Uh this is a show of hands, so all in favor, please. And that is unanimous. Thank you very much. We are now moving on to items for information. Item 7.1 HSC26011 updated use of indigenous medicines policy and procedure. I'd like to call upon Caitlin LaForme, director of the indigenous relations, to provide committee with an overview. There you are. >> Hello. >> Hi there. Please proceed. [laughter] >> Caitlin LaForme, director of indigenous relations. Um So, this is an update to the existing uh policy on indigenous medicines. We've also included the procedures in here because there were a few small changes to the procedures as well. So, originally this policy was approved back in 2018. However, it wasn't widely used at the time. Now that it's more commonplace, we've found that there were a few barriers um and it was a bit too restrictive. So, we did a um a review of the policy and procedures and uh worked internally to make some recommendations. Some of the barriers were that were included were a 5-day notification timeline um and there was limited areas in which some indigenous medicines could actually be used. So, this was actually preventing people to be able to access this. So, we worked in consultation with corporate services, energy management division. We conducted a smudging ceremony so that they could see one what was actually um what it actually entailed and that the amount of smoke didn't always um need for the HVAC to be turned off. And so, we worked with them. We also did further consultation with Hamilton Fire, City Facilities and Recreation to assess um past experiences with ceremonial burning of indigenous medicines um and those were largely done without any issue. So, some of the changes that were made is streamlining the process for unplanned uses, which is a big deal to ease up those restrictions and barriers that we had identified, changing the the notification period from 5 days to 2 days for planned uses of indigenous medicines. For small gatherings, HVAC doesn't need to be shut off or go on bypass. And for larger events, staff will consult with facilities to see if there's a need to turn off the system as more smoke will be produced for a larger event. Um and the use of indigenous medicines is permitted in any city of Hamilton location unless otherwise already specified due to a scent allergy or sensitivity. That's it. >> Thank you very much for that presentation. I appreciate all the work that you've done to update the file. Uh Counselor Nuren Nanan, please. >> Thank you, three year chair. Just a big thank you to the director for the overview and everybody who worked in the background to figure out a procedure in order to enable these much needed ceremonies and ensure that uh there's no more barriers for indigenous folks to be able to participate in ceremony using city facilities. So, much needed upgrade and uh really appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Any further questions of staff? I don't see any. Okay, we're good to go. So, I need a mover and a seconder. Um to put the report on the floor. I guess we've already started talking about it. So, moved by Counselor Wang, seconded by Counselor Kretch. So, the item is on the floor. With a show of hands, all those in favor. Carried. And then we need the vote to receive the report. Moved by Counselor Jackson. Oh, sorry. Moved by Counselor Nanan, seconded by Counselor Kretch. Thank you very much. And all those in favor. Hands again. Very good. That's carried. Now, we're moving on to item 7.2, which is the HSC 26019 Ontario Works Service Plan city-wide. Uh I'd like to call upon Stewart uh Bulmer, uh director of Ontario Works to begin today's presentation. Please and thank you. >> [snorts] >> Okay, so I believe the procedure bylaw says 10 minutes for a staff report. Are you good with that that 10 minutes for yourself? >> I'll hustle. I'll be all right. >> Please proceed whenever you you wish to start. >> Uh good afternoon Councillor Clark and uh members of ECS Committee. Uh as mentioned, I'm Stu Boomer. I'm Director of Ontario Works here at the city and uh I have the privilege of holding that position and leading a a team of dedicated folks that are delivering the uh provincial Ontario Works program here locally. I'm pleased to have the opportunity today to talk to committee about our annual service plan as well as important caseload information and I hope it serves to help you better understand the needs of our clients and our community. Um as our as our team works to deliver important services to the most vulnerable members that uh that reside here in Hamilton. This slide provides uh a picture of the vision of the Ontario Works program and you can see that in the center is the purpose statement for our our work, to improve the lives of those we serve. And it is put in the middle intentionally because we do try to put the needs of our clients at the center of our work. We also try to align our work with the vision of the Ontario Works program's uh provincial Ontario Works program's vision as well as the vision for the City of Hamilton of trying to uh make this this community the best place to raise a child and age successfully. Let's try to advance that. There it goes. Before we move into some of the important elements of our service plan, I wanted to highlight some, uh, uh, and and major fact, uh, for you. The persistently low rates of assistance set by the province that are provided through the program. This rate, uh, has not been adjusted since 2018 and has not kept pace with inflation or rising living costs. As a result, households are often receiving far less support than required to meet even their most basic needs, including things like the cost of accommodations. This gap significantly under undermines pathways to self-sufficiency and the ability to focus on making, uh, forward progress towards stability and employment goals. And this deep poverty and the associated precarity, the adverse impacts that that has on well-being, serve as the largest barrier to our staff and and our clients and and achieving positive outcomes, including the provincial outcomes. So, why do we do a service plan? Well, I'll move through this fairly quickly, but it talks about how we invest locally with our provincial and municipal funding to deliver the program, describes what we're trying to achieve. It's usually done over a 2-year cycle, although the province has has only required an addendum for this year, sort of, uh, turning it into a longer cycle. Um, and it also talks about what our outcomes for the programs are and our strategies to try to achieve those outcomes. It includes four main components that I will spend a little bit of time digging into each of them. A community caseload analysis, um, uh, the performance outcome targets, as I mentioned our strategies as well as our provisions that we have put in place to deliver the program responsibly responsibly and in accordance with provincial guidelines. So, who are we serving? This is perhaps the most important information that's in the plan. The slide includes some highlights of this information and you'll notice a few I'll just point out a few points of interest. The Ontario Works caseload is growing with a 9.9% increase between 2024 and 2025. We're at a We're at a rate with our caseload that's approximately 25% higher than pre-pandemic levels. Our clients are predominantly single individuals or single individuals with children and they reside primarily in private market rental housing. On average each month right now we have about 945 clients who are homeless or have no reported address representing a 4% increase year-over-year. An average time on assistance is largely largely unchanged at 36 months which is in line with the provincial average of 35 months and demonstrates that the Ontario Works program is not often only a temporary income support measure that people are relying on this program for significant lengths of time. Here are some of the main support needs that we we see when our clients are when our when clients are working with case managers develop case plans. Housing stability, health-related needs, service navigation needs, digital access and and and lack thereof, uh and additional basic needs that they have trouble meeting such as food and food and and there and and a deep issues of food insecurity. Ontario clients do receive support through health-related benefits, including prescription drug coverage and some emergency services for required items. Um but these issues, by and large, are not surprising given the depth of poverty that people are experiencing when they're on the program. Let's talk about how we support. Housing stability is an important issue that our clients face, and we take an approach an integrated approach here in Hamilton of embedding the delivery of Ontario Works services to those who are homeless directly in the Housing Services Division. So, if someone is in the shelter system, or if they are experiencing if they are unhoused, we will move that case over to a housing case manager who will who will really put a strong housing focus on their case plan while the person is receiving Ontario Works. We've also worked with the province as the first community to have a pilot designed to help unhoused clients better access the program through the provincial digital application process. And we, of course, help clients through the Housing Emergency Fund. Our staff are out in the community. We deliver services on an outreach basis to over 20 locations across the city, trying to get closer services closer to where people live. We also have an indigenous focused case case caseload where we work with with trying to deliver more culturally appropriate services to that community and working with our colleagues in Indigenous Relations to try to grow that and and help it reach other other services across the city. We rely heavily on interpretation services to help make sure that we can communicate with clients who who don't have English or French as their first language to make sure that they can understand and engage with our services. And we can use support such as helping people access technology um and other other educational programs to move forward towards their goals. We continue, we help people by making a lot of referrals to services in the community that are not-for-profit partners and other agencies provide to help them meet their basic needs because we know that they don't get enough through the program uh to do that. So, that can include things like access to food supports. You can help people try to maintain their housing or um access transit services. We try to connect them to health services um and help them navigate to ODSP if they have a disability and that seem most more appropriate income support program for them. And as I mentioned earlier, we provide health health-related supports and services as well, including navigation of health systems such as the mental health and addiction systems. Talk a little bit about outcomes. The province sets the outcomes um for for all offices across the province and they they manage that outcomes framework. Um this slide lists what those outcomes are across those four standard outcomes. Uh they do include um uh a measure related to employment, although uh the employment services are delivered outside of the program. We are involved in referring folks to that program. And those programs and services. So, if we look at our outcome achievement, I would describe outcome one uh is an area where we did perform quite strongly, although short of the provincial outcome. As mentioned, I think this is a large or I should indicate that this is largely an aspirational outcome as it is set at 100% and there are uh key issues related to people coming onto the program, um issues with technology in the system and how the system works where at any given point in time, if you take a a report, uh you will not have a 100% achievement in this outcome. Um [snorts] we continue to improve though in this outcome year over year currently sitting at 92% if you consider our 2026 uh measure and well above the provincial average. It should be noted that that no service no municipal uh service delivery partner has achieved this outcome uh [clears throat] in the past year. Outcome two, we we showed solid improvement this year with referrals up to 27% and we work closely with our EO partners to continue to uh increase our referrals to their system. We're also improving our exits to employment by reviewing our case closures to make sure we're more accurately reflecting the closure reason and we do expect significant improvement over the next year. And outcome four is an area where we did hit our target which is folks returning to the program and trying to reduce that. Finally, if we look at our service strategies, um these are important ways that we work to get to those outcomes working with our EO partners, supporting our staff with training to make sure that they can deliver uh important and and and compassionate services to clients, improving our online experience experiences for clients, and streamlining our business processes. Finally, I'll touch a few of on a few important program delivery considerations. There are many things that we do and that are built into the program to make sure that we're reviewing eligibility including uh file file audits and reviews, third-party checks, uh completion of uh provincially assigned file audits, um review and investigation of cases, collection of overpayment, and [snorts] working with the province on overpayment recovery and collection uh more systemically. And thank you, that concludes uh my presentation and happy to answer any questions that committee members have. >> Uh thank you, Director. Uh you've got a few questions. Do you want to go and sit down at the bench or you want to go to >> could that'd be >> Yep, absolutely. Please, let's do that. >> Thank you, Chair. >> Thank you, Director. Our first speaker today is Councillor Cameron Crutch. Please, Councillor. I'll put your mic on. There you go. >> Thank you. My first question is specifically with respect to the map. So, when I look at the map and look at historically household incomes in Hamilton, Ward 2 has the lowest household income. But, Ward 3 has the highest rate of folks who are currently accessing Ontario Works. And it says there's a band of percentages there. What is the actual percentage in Ward 3 is my is my first question about that. >> Director Bowman. >> Uh through through the Chair to Councillor Crutch. Um Councillor Crutch, you are correct that Wards 2 and 3 have the highest percentage of of assistance. Uh I don't have the specific percentage. I can follow up with you though to give specific percentages for Wards 3 as well as Wards 2. >> Yeah, I was just curious to know it just says over 15%. I was wondering if that was 20%, 30%. Like how high that number was relative to the rest of them. But, um my question to you is do you have any understanding or an analysis about why that's the case? Because we disproportionately have lower household incomes in Ward 2, but more folks on Ontario Works in Ward 3. And I I think it's just down to housing form and housing affordability. That's probably what what it boils down to. But, I'm trying to get an understanding from you of why you think that that trend is such that Ward 3 is the place where we're seeing is more individuals on Ontario Works than anybody else despite the despite the employment income being slightly higher than Ward 2. >> Thank you, Councillor. Director, please. >> Yes. And through the chair, yes, you're correct, Councillor. This is a historic you know, pattern that we've seen in the lower wards of the city having higher rates of assistance. That we believe is because this is where there are more affordable and more available rental units that are accessible by transit, that are close to certain services as well, that our clients that are living on extremely low incomes do rely on. >> Councillor. >> Thanks. I appreciate you clarifying that. My other questions are about the program delivery slide. Just trying to dig in a little bit more there to understand these different layers. So, I presume there are many forms of identification that can be provided by clients to you when trying to access Ontario Works and eligibility, those things. I'm assuming involved government-issued ID. I presume also though things like leases, things like bills or utility bills in their name, those types of things. I'm assuming that for some individuals government-issued ID remains a barrier. Can you just explain how that works in terms of the eligibility requirements and and really who's fulfilling those requirements, how you're how you're assessing people's eligibility, how you're assessing whether someone's able to access the program. >> Thank you, Councillor. Director. >> Through the chair, I should start off by noting that the collection of applications and the determination of initial eligibility is now a provincial responsibility. So, the province collects the application through a centralized and automated process and makes the initial eligibility decision including triggering the initial payment if the person is deemed eligible. In some cases, depending on the person's answers as well as third-party checks that are completed against some of their information, the system may automatically approve the application and generate that payment. In other instances, if there's an eligibility issue that's noted by the system, a provincial worker would follow up to try to verify that. They tend to take a risk-based approach, uh either, you know, visually verifying verifying something that someone indicates to them over the phone or perhaps requesting documentation that they will visually verify. The next step, though, is when the case comes to the local office, if it's approved. Our workers then, within the first 30 days, will arrange for an appointment, and they will verify a number of different aspects, uh including, as you mentioned, the person's identification, the person the person's rental accommodation arrangements, uh the family composition and household composition, um assets, uh you know, to determine which assets are exempt and which assets are not exempt, other income they may be receiving, um and whether it's exempt or not exempt, um etc. Uh it's a it's a lengthy and and quite uh detailed process. There's also third-party check systems that are used to try to validate bank accounts, so credit checks, um we have some access to tax information, vehicle registration information, um etc. as well. So, a caseworker will go through that process of verifying those details. If there's an eligibility issue that's found at that point, the case may be closed and an overpayment may be determined, and if not, um of course, um many cases continue to receive assistance. In terms of rental accommodations, um a lease may be requested and may be visually verified, um a letter from a landlord may be received, um or other other proof of payment of rent may be received that the caseworker will use. But, it should be noted that this is for the purposes of determining if they're eligible to receive that benefit. We're not party to the rental arrangement between the landlord and the tenant. >> So, if I just back up a little bit here to understand. So, when a person is going through the eligibility process with the province, do they have to provide these documents? Are you they're providing them to us a second time? Like, I'm just trying to understand who is actually the one who is determining whether someone is eligible based on their identification documents and documents about tenancy and those kinds of things. Is it Is it the province or is it us who's doing that work? Director? >> Uh through the chair to the counselor. As mentioned, it's a risk-based eligibility process. So, if the uh if the system uh if the if the individual indicates information to the system that seems reasonable uh based on their responses, the application can be approved. They would only request certain documents if there was questions raised by the responses that the applicant provided or if some of these third-party systems flagged an an issue. Um a more intensive verification of these details happens at the local office. So, there are instances where um the initial information provided through the uh through the application um may may have gone through that screening and maybe have determined appropriate, but when we follow up, we may find that that response maybe wasn't correct or wasn't uh we needed more information and that can change the decision. >> So, the answer is both? >> Both. >> Okay, thank you. So, on our end, I'm just trying to address the questions delegates raised because I think it's worthwhile understanding it in more detail. And so, at the level of at the level of identification and tenancy, right? Those things can be borne out by all kinds of things like I said, a government-issued ID could have someone's address on it and that's a process the government mediates. It could be through a bill of some kind and that's a process a process that a private corporation mediates, obviously. So, someone's paying electrical bill, obviously, that's mediated through them and there's a meter attached to a residence, so there's some understanding. But, when it comes to trying to understand outside of those instruments, you pretty much have in front of you basically leases. Um and what I'm guess I'm trying to understand is do you review those to the extent that yes, this person has a lease. Um where does where do people fall through the cracks? That's what I'm trying to understand cuz it appears that some people do based on the information we're hearing. That people fall through the cracks sometimes. We don't have that proper identity information. We don't We don't uh aren't able Do you How does this How does that happen? And what are the checks and balances going forward that are going to be put in place to make sure it doesn't happen? That's just basically my question. >> Thank you, counselor. So, your time's up at that point. I will I'll allow the answer and then a supplemental to the answer just to clarify and then we'll move on to the next one, okay? Director? >> Uh through the chair. Um so, there are a number of mechanisms. There's uh you know, that that we can employ to further investigate if we're not, you know, confident in the the lease arrangements uh that have been provided or the the rental details. Um a case manager may put a a case on hold. They give someone additional time to provide the adequate uh documentation that's needed to verify the that they have a legitimate expense. Um uh a case may be investigated further with our verification team to to follow up uh more directly with a property owner to see if and that try to attempt to validate uh who's renting out the property. Um there are some cross checks in the system that try to uh identify common addresses against common clients to see if there's, you know, indications where that doesn't seem to make sense, and we can then initiate an investigation to try to determine if someone has an eligible rental expense. And in other cases, if that can't be proven, then the shelter uh benefit can be removed, and they would only receive their basic needs portion of the benefit um until they at such time as they could demonstrate that they had a a valid shelter expense. >> Thanks. To clarify, just make sure I understand. I think what you're saying is that person applies to the provincial system. And sometimes they're granted eligibility immediately through the provincial system. Once they're eligible, they may start receiving payments, things may happen. And then we, at some point, um, as soon as we can, get that person to the office. We have them come in, have a in-person interview, I presume. We go through all these documents with them, and we assess this. But, payments may be coming. And then if we realize at some point, oh, you weren't eligible for this, then we can assess an overpayment and go backwards. But, what happens is that there those that's basically what happens is the process is galloping along. Um, mail may be sent out to people. We eventually catch up with the situation, and then have to try and go backwards. But, we can't prevent, um, someone's eligibility being approved by the province initially, and and it proceeding forward. Is that generally speaking correct? >> Director. >> Uh, through the chair, that's generally correct, yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Councillor, for your comprehensive questions. Councillor Tam Wayne, you're up next, and your microphone is on now. >> Thank you. Similar to Councillor Crichlow's, uh, questions, I think I want to dig a little bit deeper on the feedback mechanisms and the ways that we might do that verification process. Director, you talked about the verification team. Is that the same as, say, a fraud investigation team, or is this completely different? >> Thank you, Councillor. Director. >> Uh, through the chair, the Councillor's question, um, that is a component of the team. So, um, our verification team includes a few different positions. We have some case managers who are focused on eligibility verification. That includes reviews of files that are flagged by the province as potentially having, uh, eligibility issue that they've asked us to look, uh, into. So, that we have a couple of folks that are dedicated to that function. We have four eligibility review officers that complete investigations. So, last year they completed just under 1,500 investigations related to eligibility. They come up with an outcome and and and and that can impact someone's eligibility as well as you know, create an overpayment. And we also have recovery officers. Recovery officers are trying by and large to collect overpayments on closed cases as well as get collect reimbursements from other funding sources so that we can try to save the provincial program funding. So, for example, if someone's waiting for their employment insurance to start to come into pay, but they actually have no, you know, basically no funds now, they can receive Ontario Works for a short period of time, but if subsequently that EI starts to pay, we would we would receive payment back from Service Canada to to reimburse the provincial program funding. So, there's a number of folks on that team that do a range of things, but all kind of focused on trying to ensure eligibility and try to recover funds for the province when they're paid out when when the you know, there was a reason why the person was not entitled to receive them. >> Thank you, Director Boomer. Councillor Wing. >> I think what I'm struggling with is the fact that the system has changed so much. The fact that the verification process is actually done in the provincial portal, then ultimately that case file gets sent over to us. We do have several eyeballs that may or may not look at the verification access of it, but what is the opportunity for say more of that our eyeballs on it because it strikes me that these two delegates have already identified several what seems to be very large systemic issues or challenges. So, I wonder if there's what what does that look like? >> Thank you, Director. >> General Manager Mater said that she would like to answer that question, Chair. >> Mater. >> Grace Mater, General Manager of Healthy and Safe Communities. So, I I appreciate that question. I'm not going to directly answer it and I will have Stu answer that. I think I really would like to say that the vast majority of people that are coming on social assistance are coming to us at their most need. They're at their at their hour of vulnerability. I think a very much of the focus today has been about individuals creating overpayments. People create overpayments for a variety of reasons. Not all of them are fraudulent. Many of them are related to changes in their circumstances and situations. And I think it's really important that we we remember why we're having Ontario Works program. It is a safety net for individuals at their hour of need. And while there are some absolutely that are trying to work around those those rules and that, we do our absolute best to mitigate them wherever possible. But, one of the delegates made a comment about our workers should have more financial background. Our case managers are social workers. That is the perspective we are trying to create in the environment we're trying to create for the the people that come to see us. While we are absolutely stewards of the money we provide to them, we do our best to ensure that. I think it's important that we recall the the very nature of why the program exists. And I'll refer it over to Stu. >> Director. Through the chair, the counselor's question in terms of opportunities to oversee the program. I think it's important to remember that the accountability framework for the program is provincial. And they largely drive the program integrity mechanisms, tools that are at our disposal to use. And so, there have been significant strides in this area in my professional experience over the last 15 years where the use of automation, the use of third-party systems is flagging cases that require attention. And and you know, we are doing our best to follow up on those cases and so I think that's an opportunity for us to continue to follow up on those cases on a risk-based you know, framework. Um there are also opportunities around overpayment collection that I think the province is recognizing and taking important steps on to to put better tools in place to recover those overpayments. These are provincial funds and and provincial benefits and the debts are provincial. Um so we recover overpayments on ongoing benefits. That's fairly straightforward. But on closed cases, we now work with the province to give them the responsibility for their overpayment to recover it and they have put in enhanced tools such as the you know, CRA revenue set-off program to help collect against those. Those are tools that aren't available to us at the local level. >> Councillor Wilson? >> I have one more question, Chair. >> No, I'm giving some latitude to counselors. These are comprehensive answers and so it's taking up more of your questioning time. So go ahead. >> Thank you, Chair. My last question through you, Chair, is a question around continuous improvement. Yesterday at GIC, we did hear from Director Pat Leishman about a continuous improvement project. Ontario Works is different. It's done where the service managers and where the flow-through for provincial funds, but we have City of Hamilton staffers that are going through City of Hamilton processes. So is there an opportunity for continuous improvement here, mindful that a lot of this is provincially mandated, but it strikes me that there is a real opportunity to perhaps tighten up or even look at streamlining and make making more efficient or seeing more eyeballs on these cases. So help me understand whether this is eligible or not, whether we can actually do that continuous improvement work given that we are a flow-through agency for funds by the provincial government. >> Thank you, Councillor Director Beumer. >> Thank you, Chair Clark. Yes, of course, there's opportunities for provincial improvement. You know, we regularly review our internal business processes in terms of how how we're administering things at the local level. And I would say so there are of course like as I mentioned internal things we can do better. We have you know our discretionary application system that we've moved online and automated much much of that process. We continue to schedule appointments with more enhanced tools. But in areas of program accountability we're also working to you know enhance our relationship and our referral processes with Hamilton Police Services on more serious cases of criminality where we think criminality is involved. And we work with the province to advocate to them when we see patterns of potential you know application of fraud or potential fraud. So yes, through a number of different mechanisms we continue to look at our work and certainly open to continuous improvement. >> Thank you. Those are all my questions. >> Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Tom Jackson, please. You're up next. >> Thank you, Chairman Clark and thank you, Director Beumer for an excellent presentation and going in depth help me understand better what's happening in the welfare world i.e. taxpayers money as well that is trying to help those that are at the lowest point in their lives. I just have a couple of points of clarification and then I'm going to really focus on the target three on your slide 11, Director Beumer, about Ontario Works cases exiting to employment. So first couple of questions of clarification. I saw on slide six 13,053 average monthly. I've been around a number of years remembering from the regional days to current times. It seems to me that the welfare caseload has fluctuated between about 10,000 to maybe 16,000 at its worst point, and often with social economic factors at play. Are we in the middle of the road here, or correct my numbers or my memory if it's if it's not accurate. Through you, Chairman Clark, please. >> Thank you, Councillor Director. >> Uh, through the chair, uh, to the Councillor's question, I'm going to do my best to to get out some Hamilton history that long predates my time as director here. Uh, we are not the middle of the road. Uh, we are at a fairly high point in the history of uh, of Ontario Works administration since the program's inception in 1997. We are now have a caseload that's at about uh, the 2011 level, which was sort of the high point coming out of the financial crisis. Um, where we would have seen very comparable levels to what we have now. Um, prior to that, I don't have a great sense of of it. I think we have had higher points slightly, but we are near the highest point we've been at. >> Okay, thank you, Director. And yes, I wasn't um, expecting your um, your time here to even come close to matching my time, and I don't know if General Manager Mater, um, we've come together through the '90s, but I seem to recall at some other low points that we were around 16,000, 17,000 a month. But anyways, it seems that we're kind of in that mid-range, and as you said, Director Beumer, we're we're not in a good place overall right now. Um, second question, on your slide 11, I'm confused. Your right-hand column says provincial average, and you said exiting to employment 10%, 10.2. So, I'm just confused. Is the right-hand column the provincial average of what's happening, and over by our 25 target then, we're only at 5.2 uh using the exit to employment um line as an example, or am I missing something here? Through you, Chairman Clark, please. >> Councillor Jackson. Director Bowman, please. >> Through you, uh chair, uh to the counselor. No, you're not missing something. Last year's performance outcome in on outcome number three, uh our our exits to employment, where uh achievement was 5.2%. Our target was 10. The provincial average is close to what our target is. Uh if I can just take a couple of seconds, we are doing some pretty significant review and work close work with the province in this area to review outcomes on closed cases where the system has closed the case automatically and we haven't gone back to review the the case details to change the closure reason. Sometimes, folks have employment with us. Uh they're working part-time. They're reporting their earnings. Um they may >> [clears throat] >> have an increase in hours and stop reporting their earnings. We will, of course, put the pay the the case on suspension. We will stop their benefits. Um but we and if that occurs for 2 months in a row, the case will automatically close by the system. And right now, we're doing a comprehensive review of closed cases for those system closures to change the closure reason to employment when there's good evidence that the person was actually working. I think that's going to serve to improve our outcome significantly. It's also a practice that's uh employed commonly in other service managers across the province, and the ministry is in supporting us in that review. But also, we rely on the work of FedCap and the local Employment Ontario system to meet the needs of our clients to help them get employment because they're the ones delivering the employment services. >> So, Director, I heard your um closure argument and the factor, fair enough. But I really now want to zero in. It's one thing to provide the support when somebody or a family is at their lowest point in life financially. But, I don't know about anybody else, but even when I had some employment, part-time employment, two or three part-time employments, the self-esteem that I gathered from that was enormously helpful to me provide besides providing a regular income. So, I'm very disappointed to see that first of all, we didn't even meet our 10% target. It was only 5.2. Secondly, the target's only 10%. Are we not putting more effort and resources into helping people on welfare get off the social assistance program and get some get some restored pride and get some restored self-esteem in their lives while providing income? Yes, they may not all have the degrees and we're going to help them with education to meet the modern world's requirements, but in the meantime, while we're trying to reach that noble goal for everybody to get meaningful employment with good wages and good benefits, is there no interim steps? I'm just I'm just disappointed to see only 10% are exiting to employment and in fact, reading below that, even a number of them are coming back after a period of time of employment. Through you, Chairman Clark, please. To Director Excuse me, Beumer, because I just think the employment factor here for me is incredibly important because otherwise, not only will somebody or a family stay on welfare, I have found in cases that I'm aware of, it's become generational as well and the incentive factor can wane. Through you, Chairman Clark, please. >> Thank you, Councillor. Director. >> Uh through the chair, that's a great question, Councillor. I appreciate the question and and agree that finding meaningful employment is super impactful in someone's life in terms of how they feel and how they face the world. Um I should note though that in as of 2021, you know, the delivery of employment services was removed from our responsibility and our provincial funding was reduced by 22% commensurate with that removal. So, the employment system now resides with Employment Ontario. Our local service manager lead is Fedcap Canada. We work closely with Fedcap on our on our referrals. You know, our referrals represent a significant portion of the folks that they're intended to work with through their ministry funding through MLITSD at the province. Uh And so, we we we rely on the success of their programs to support our clients. Our case managers work jointly with employment workers to try to support people through those services. Um the responsiveness of those services is challenging for the clients we serve that are are the most removed from the labor market of the folks that are competing for jobs. Um and they do sometimes return to the program because there's [clears throat] a lot of precarity in the local labor market generally, not just in Hamilton, but across the province. Um so, we work closely with them. We strive to improve our outcomes, but it it should be noted that it is not an area where we're funded or direct or have direct control. >> Thanks director for the reality of that. That's unfortunate the cutback from your resources within our department. I just collectively want to see that 10% much higher and I think we'll have um a greater number of people not only not on the system, but also carrying on in a more proudful way with meaningful employment ultimately with greater self-esteem and feeling that they're even contributing more, if you will, to our community overall. Thanks Chairman Clark. >> Thank you, Councillor Jackson. Next up is Councillor Alex Wilson. Councillor, your mic is on. >> Thank you through you, chair. I just have a couple questions around the 7% unhoused figure and just trying to understand what we might be able to infer from that or just um how that's kind of changed from year-to-year. >> I'm sorry, counselor, the 7% which? >> Uh I number of folks in a community case load analysis. It's on slide uh six, I believe, and it says 7% of the kind of typical portfolio right now in a given month um are clients experiencing homelessness or don't >> Got it. Thank you. >> Um so, my first question is how does that compare to previous years that you've been in this organization? And I'm trying to understand, largely speaking, are we seeing existing clients enter homelessness or are we seeing outreach to individuals experiencing homelessness to provide social assistance? Are we seeing both? Like because there's two ways to read that number. There's folks who are already seeing social assistance are not able to pay their increasing rent or not able to meet commitments ongoing versus we've done some outreach to folks who are at risk. Trying to understand that. >> Thank you, counselor. Director Bowman? >> [snorts] >> Uh through the chair to the counselor. So, as mentioned in the report, that's a 4% increase uh year-over-year. It was a larger percent uh increase the previous case load profile. I don't have the number off the top of my head, but as I recall when I started in 2024, that number was closer to 800. Now, it's it's creeped up to around 9 950. Uh our experience has been that this is not a function of us doing better outreach to get folks onto assistance who are already homelessness homeless. This is folks newly coming into homelessness. Um and um I I think, you know, and and we have asserted with the province that low rates of Ontario Works and and ODSP assistance are one of the key drivers behind the growth in homelessness across the province. And increased rates would help to to in part the homelessness crisis that our many communities across the province are experiencing. >> Councillor. >> Certainly if 40% of folks experiencing homelessness are receiving social assistance, I'd agree. Um I'm curious then how just data with our homelessness portfolio more generally. So when we're talking about our HSIR, we're talking about investments. Just how does this data get included? Even in this report, I think that's a measurable that I think it would be helpful to have a slightly more visible if there's a trend line as well as having some of those numbers kind of drawn out in the present. Like that's I think a a metric or we've been talking about the KPIs. I think that's of interest as well. And so I'm just wondering um does that get rolled up in more housing reports generally speaking or what is the relationship between these two data sets so we can get an understanding of the broad and how does it housing picture where does social assistance and income support play into what's going on? >> That's an excellent question. So I'll start with Director of Housing and Homelessness, but it may again end up going to GM Mater as well. >> Uh thank you, Chair Clark. Uh to the Councillor's point and as I mentioned briefly in the presentation, um our delivery of Ontario Works is highly integrated with our Housing Services Division here locally. And so the team uh that uh that reports under uh you know, Director Baird um has responsibility for about 950 cases of individuals who are in the shelter system or experiencing homelessness with a real housing focus coming to that case management as well as to their planning. Um so uh but great point taken. We we are trying to especially at the provincial level draw the parallels between social assistance systems and homelessness data and numbers. Uh and I'll with that I'll turn it over to General Manager Mater to >> General Manager Mater, please. >> Uh through the chair. Um to the Councillor, that's great point. Um we also know the the other component of this is about food insecurity. And so um under the uh the last update we had on the HSIR also included, you know, that new levels of need and demand in the community when it comes to our our portion that we're now funding to food share and how that's being utilized and we're seeing the ever-increasing numbers. The other aspect though is, um, the director mentioned too that we are using this opportunity to talk about how are we ensuring that people are remaining housed when they get to that that point because once as we all know that once you tip over into the unhoused world, it is very hard to make your way back. So, we're doing everything we can. So, we are working very closely together. >> Councillor, follow up. Oh, sorry. I got to put you in. There you go. >> Sorry, just super briefly, when we report and kind of roll up, I think in the housing and does year in review or things like that, we say, for example, this many families have been or households have been provided income support, etc. I guess I'm very specifically asking, apologies for not knowing, like is these is this types of data included there where we would link social assistance numbers in the type of support being provided by the municipality and it wouldn't be sectioned out by just, oh, no, we're only talking about housing services delivered by Director Baird, for example, but this gets included in those general reports. >> To the chair, it is. >> Perfect, thank you. >> That's it, Councillor. Are there any first-time questioners for this report? Seeing none, uh, Councillor Wang, do you want to Sorry, Councillor [clears throat] Nann, did you have a question? Oh, okay. Councillor Wang, would you take the chair for me, please? >> [sighs] >> Um, the first question I have and I'm still trying to understand this. So, we've had landlords of Ontario or property managers of Hamilton, not sure which group is which anymore, but they have been raising some concerns. Their interaction with our Ontario Works division is what? >> So, through the chair, and as I mentioned previously, um in delivering a shelter benefit to someone who has an eligible shelter expense, um that is, you know, that is our role in in terms of trying to uh determine the person's eligibility. Sometimes, if there are questions, uh or if there there are issues that flag, we may through an investigation reach out to a landlord directly in an effort to understand the the the accommodation arrangements of the individual to determine if they're uh have continued eligibility for that shelter benefit. >> [snorts] >> Uh but it should be noted that we don't have a formal relationship with landlords. Uh we are not party to the agreements between that them and their renters. Uh and so, uh we are a service provider similar to others that need to understand an individual's financial circumstances in order to, you know, uh understand their eligibility for benefits, but uh we don't have a formal connection with landlords. >> Thank you. So, again, just to reconfirm what I heard, so when I'm looking at slide three of 14 on your presentation, Director, it lists the shelter costs for singles, couples, couples with dependents, sole support parents, etc. The City of Hamilton does not routinely send shelter money to any landlord. We send the money to the recipient, and the recipient is responsible for paying their rent. Is that not correct? >> Uh through the chair, uh uh to count to your question, Councillor Clark, um by and large, that is correct. There are provisions where we can set up a pay direct to a third party. Often and and and and often when we do that, it can be to a landlord based on conversations with the with the client trying to, you know, get their agreement when there are persistent patterns of of nonpayment or where they have that as a preference. So, that benefit or a portion thereof could be directly sent to a utility company for example, to a landlord. That is a tool that we use. We use it with with a portion of clients who who are struggling to to maintain regular payments where we think it might serve to to stabilize their situation, but we try to do that in cooperation with the client and where it makes sense. Often times the benefit is lower than their rent and so pay direct won't fully satisfy the situation. So, it could be a combination of things, but but mostly and in most cases we provide the benefits to the person. The person then pays their rent. >> Okay. I heard I think generally that the tenant or the recipient of Ontario Works generally they pay, but it can happen with the tenant's authorization. Do we ever do it without that? Just a brief answer. >> Uh through the chair, we can put a pay direct in place without permission where there are ongoing persistent patterns of nonpayment, but it is rare. >> Okay, thank you for that very much. Vice Chair, I'd like to ask a couple more questions if I may. >> Mhm. >> I'm trying to understand exactly >> [clears throat] >> what all happened in 2021. Um the province started to assume responsibilities and obligations for our Ontario Works. For example, I believe at that time they started doing the initial assessments. So, we no longer do the initial assessments. They have a software online system where people can log in to do that. And they do the employment work now. Are there other things that they took over? >> Uh so, through through to to your question and to your question they they started with an upload of employment services and I guess a reassignment of responsibility commensurate with a funding reduction on our side. They started the centralized intake process, which progressed in various phases. So, a lot of cases originally were coming back to us if the system couldn't automatically make a decision. Now, they fully by and large they complete all applications with very few exceptions. So, they've uploaded or taken back more of that responsibility. And now they've taken on some responsibility as cases close around overpayment collection. And so, that's the latest function that they've taken on. >> So, can I have clarification the overpayment function are we still setting up overpayment repayment plans with individuals who for whatever reason the original assessment was higher than it should have been and so now they've had an overpayment and now we need to collect it and we collect it I think around 10% um per uh payment. Can you just verify that? >> So, for active cases, if they have an overpayment, we we set up a recovery. The system defaults at five. It can be increased to 10. We we sometimes do increase it to 10%. Um the majority of our overpayments are are are collected against someone's benefits at a 5% rate. Um and in some instances, it can be reduced further if there's extreme financial hardship uh that's demonstrated. But, most overpayments are collected at 5% of their current benefit rate uh going forward. So, if someone was making, you know, over sorry, making receiving $733 in a month, we'd be collecting uh approximately $36 back against their outstanding overpayment balance. If when when and if the case closes now and there's still an overpayment balance, we transfer the case to the financial services unit of the ministry and the ministry takes on overpayment collection responsibilities against that provincial debt. >> Thank you. Um so, we lost some services. The province took them over. We continue to work with the province on the Ontario Works overall program meeting their goals to the best of our abilities. >> [sighs] >> We have 222 FTEs in the Ontario Works program right now. >> Through the chair, um that's correct. There's 222 employees in the Ontario Works division. Should be noted that provincial uh program funding is leveraged across other divisions to fund Ontario Works functions delivered there. So, as I mentioned, those workers in housing, half of their salary for those case managers involved in Ontario Works delivery to unhoused individuals would be paid by provincial funding. We also have a few folks that work with youth and children in community services that deliver youth services to and home management supports to some of our clients that are are young and working with with staff over in CCS. Um so there are some other positions in other divisions that we utilize the provincial Ontario Works Ministry to funding to pay portion of their salary. >> Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. The 222 FTEs then, is that including those individuals? >> Uh no, it is not. If you looked at our service agreement with the ministry, it would indicate closer to 250 individuals that are supported through the funding. >> Okay. So the difference between 250 people and 222 are all of the other programs that are now funded through that agreement we have with the province. >> Correct. >> Thank you. The 222 FTEs now that the province took over two or three programs, have we had any reduction in the number of FTEs as a result of the um assumption of those services by the province? >> Uh so through you, um to your question, uh in 2021 when there was a 22% reduction in in funding, um my understanding at the city at the time that there was approximately 40 positions that were eliminated in the Ontario Works division that were focused on the delivery of employment services. Um in 2025, the the the Ontario government sort of rebalanced Ontario Works funding across the province based on changes in caseload. That provided us with additional access to approximately uh $4 million in provincial funding. The city at the time was over contributed on their share because costs had increased but provincial funding had not. We were able to access about a little over $3 million with existing contributions from the city to cost match against and access that funding. We actually reduced the levy in 2025 as well by a small amount in response to that increased provincial funding while also increasing our staff complement to help manage the increased workload with caseload growth. So, it's a bit of a combination of saving the city money, utilizing the provincial funding, and growing our team in response to caseload growth. We continue to access about $750,000 less than our provincial funding allocation because we don't have the city's contribution to match that last $750,000, but we recognize that, you know, we need to understand and consider the city's financial position and levy impacts while also trying to deliver service that meets the provincial standard as well as city standards for customer service. >> Thank you. I I Vice-Chair When I I think I recall at the time General Manager John Prue bringing forth those reductions and we had a lot of debate around that at that that particular time. Thank you for reminding of that. The last question I have and I know I've over my time limit. Um We've heard a lot about Crown debt in the last couple of days. So, can you help me understand exactly what I know what [clears throat] Crown debt is. The Crown is taking over the debt. They take over the collection of that debt and when they do that, it becomes a part of Canada Revenue Agency. The CRA will actually sit with that actual taxpayer and work out what the payment plan is going to be and then the money flows to the province and if there's anything flowing to the city, then it will come here. That's my understanding of how it works. Toronto has adopted it. Has the city of Hamilton adopted it? >> So, to your question, counselor, the city of Hamilton, as all Ontario Works service managers, takes our lead from the ministry on the utilization of this tool. It is our understanding that and and you know, I will confirm that further with the ministry that the municipality does not have the authority to engage directly with CRA to access the revenue set-off program. That needs to be debt that is designated by the director of Ontario Works provincially as as a Crown debt, and then the province through their the ministry's financial services unit is the mechanism through which the CRA revenue set-off program can be accessed. The only service manager historically that has had that arrangement with the ministry has been the city of Toronto since 20 13. However, those were referrals that the ministry agreed to accept and then they administered the program with CRA >> [snorts] >> as as it was Crown debt in right of the province of Ontario. We now do that on newly closed cases as of October 1st, 2024. So, when a case closes, if it still has an overpayment historic historical overpayment included, it is transferred to the province. The province then has the authority to work with CRA through the revenue set-off program, and that is that is how we move forward. If the province, through their the provincial director of Ontario Works, provides additional identification of historic overpayments on closed cases, then we will follow their direction of referring those cases to the province for use of that collection tool. The province has indicated this is a direction that they are looking at. And we do expect over the next couple of years to be working with them to validate that historical overpayment balance and take their direction on moving those overpayments to them for their collection. But the But the directive 9.3 around this is very clear that we don't have and and the province does not expect us to use utilize this tool for those historical overpayments that have closed on cases closed prior to October 1st, 2024. >> Thank you. Just a quick supplemental. If I could get a copy of that direction um directive 9.3 so that I can see it myself um and then I'll just ponder whether not we should be asking for that additional um assistance as we go through this process. >> Certainly, Councillor Clark. I can provide that. >> Thank you. GM >> Um through the chair, just to as a reminder that uh there had been a motion that had came um previously through this committee and that we're working on a report and that'll come under the June 18th meeting. Um and that will have uh some of this information also provided within it. >> Okay, so I'll hold off until June 18th. Is the Auditor General making his report on in June? >> Through the chair, I can't speak for the Auditor General, but however, I was informed today that they are looking for some additional supports and they are just engaging some, so I do not believe it will be ready for then. >> Okay. Super. That's it for me. I'll take the chair back. Any further questions? I don't see any. So, I need a mover and seconder to uh receive the presentation on the Ontario Works Service Plan. Moved by Councillor Jackson, seconded by Councillor Alex Wilson. All those in favor, this is showing hands and thumbs up. Thank you, Councillor Jackson. Uh correspondence uh respecting the report and the um Can't get the page turned. Sorry. There we go. I need a second or mover and second or to receive the correspondence that we received on this item. Moved by Councillor Krech, seconded by Councillor Wang. Thank you. And again, that's a show of hands. All in favor. That's carried. Thank you very much. Moving on to item 7.3 HSC-26025-2025. Sorry, before we go to 7.3 earlier in the day, Councillor Krech advised me that he has a a a hard stop that he has to leave for a meeting at 4:00. So, he does have a motion that he is presenting on behalf of Councillor Maureen Wilson. Um, I'd like to turn your mic on, sir, and then you can explain it, and I think we should hear that now. >> Yeah, thank you. Just want to hear this now as I have to leave a little bit early. I'm sorry. And uh, if that's okay with everyone, it's a motion with respect to the feasibility of opening City of Hamilton's and outdoor swimming pools 1 month earlier. And so, it's the shortest motion I've ever been involved in here. It doesn't have any whereas clauses. Just a simple single therefore be resolved clause. The staff be directed to report back on the feasibility, operational implications, and estimated costs associated with opening some or all City of Hamilton outdoor swimming pools 1 month earlier than the current seasonal schedule. And Councillor Maureen Wilson has done a ton of research on this and wanted to present a couple of points here. Other cities, including City of Halifax, open their pools as early as June 15th. And in research that's been produced on this subject, quite a number of adults use these swimming pools, too. We tend to think of the pools as being for children in line with school years, but we're finding, especially as the climate changes, especially as people need access to cooling, many, many, many more adults are using these pools, and there's a real need for them. There are no pools of this sort outdoors in Ward 2. Um, there are in Ward 1, and there are across the city. And so, she would wants to report back just to find out how much it would cost, what's feasible of doing so, so we can try and line up with other municipalities are starting to say we need to open things sooner we need to close things later as the summer season the warm season gets bigger and bigger with climate change. So that's the motion before you and hopefully you can support my secondary is Council Alex Wilson. >> Thank you. Council Alex Wilson is seconding. Any questions on the motion? Seeing none, this is an electronic vote. We'll have that vote now, please. I'm in favor but eScribe kicked me out. Got it now. Councilor Nann, are you there? Okay. Thank you. And we're trying to close the vote but based on my expectation [clears throat] it's unanimous. Okay. There it is. Wow, yellow. Interesting. It's me. >> [laughter] >> Okay, thank you very much uh Council Crerar for doing that. Much appreciated. I'm sure Council Maureen Wilson is happy. Uh now, I call upon Chief Dave Cunliffe to begin the presentation on the Hamilton Fire Department Annual Report. Chief, you want to come down to the big microphone here? Although the microphones are the same size as the other ones, I just We're just setting up the computer so that we have Chief Cunliffe's presentation. There it is on the big screen. >> [clears throat] >> So, it's a 10-minute time limit as per the operational guidelines. Chief, do you need any additional time? We may as well deal with it up front. >> I'm going to do my best, counselor. >> Okay, we're going to time you. >> [laughter] >> You go ahead. >> Thank you very much. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of committee. Before I start, I want to take this minute to recognize members of my senior leadership team that are here today with me for the presentation. >> Thank you for coming. >> So, it's my honor today to be standing before you representing the over 800 members of the Hamilton Fire Department as I present the Hamilton Fire Department's 2025 annual report, which I know you should have all got in your mail. The annual report highlights the wide range of services the Hamilton Fire Department provides, and you'll see throughout the presentation demand continues to grow, and the complexity of our work continues to increase. I'm extremely proud of the members, every member of the Hamilton Fire Department who demonstrate their unwavering commitment and passion to serve our city and our residents through the tremendous work they do each and every day. I would, however, like to take a moment and thank all the members of this committee and city council for your unwavering support of the Hamilton Fire Department. I would also encourage the community and staff to take a minute to review the annual report and reflect on the incredible work that's been completed in 2025. The Hamilton Fire Department provides fire protection and rescue service and emergency management to approximately 570,000 residents within the roughly 1,200 square kilometers within the city boundaries. The fire department is made up of seven divisions, fire dispatch, fire operations, both full-time and volunteer, emergency management, fire prevention, mechanical stores and logistics, training, and our leadership team. We provide three delivery levels of emergency response across the city. And the slide that's up depicts the full-time response in the urban areas, which is in the purple. The composite response, which is a combination of both full-time and volunteer firefighters in the suburban areas, which is depicted in green. And volunteer response in the rural areas, which is in the beige color. I would like to begin by sharing a handful of significant events and projects and activities that took place in 2025. On January 26th, 2025, the Hamilton Fire Department responded to one of our most significant structure fires of the year at 35 Brock Street, a multi-residential building. Multiple rescues were made by firefighters of people who were trapped in smoke-filled stairwells. Three people sadly lost their lives, including two children. 12 others were hospitalized. Multiple units were impacted and it ended up displacing numerous residents. A coordinated effort between our emergency management team, emergency social services control group, and Red Cross helped to provide services for the impacted residents. In early 2025, 5G tablets were deployed in all frontline firefighting apparatus with real-time mobile access that now provide staff with essential information about the incident they're responding to and the corresponding property. In 2025, the department completed two very substantial milestones related to digital transformation. The first, with the assistance of staff across the department and support from City IT, extensive work was completed on phase one of the development and implementation of our new records management system First Due. That's all four core modules go live in January 2026. The second, in June of 25, the department, in collaboration with City IT, successfully completed the installation and go live of the next generation 911 system. Construction began in quarter three for the new police fire station in Watertown. The It's expected that the station will be opening in the summer of 2027. Throughout the year, our fire prevention staff participated in events and campaigns, uh for example, fire prevention week, to assist the public with resources and information to help them be aware of fire causes, to understand the importance of having working having and maintaining working smoke alarms and CO alarms, understanding the importance of fire safety plans, and in general fire safety education. In September, we recognized and celebrated Box 43's 75 years of service to the City of Hamilton and the Hamilton Fire Department through their ongoing efforts in response to major emergency incidents. This volunteer group provides rehab support in the form of hydration and nourishment, not only to Hamilton firefighters, but to all on-scene first responders. The metrics there before you helped to demonstrate the breadth of services delivered by the Hamilton Fire Department and the continued dedication of staff in supporting a healthy and safe community. In 2025, the Hamilton Fire Department responded to 20 to 43,973 emergency incidents across the city. This represents an 8.5% increase over 2024. We also responded to 388 working structure fires last year, and this represents a significant 29% increase over 2024. We continue to see a concerning ongoing trend relative to smoke alarms. 50% of residential properties that experienced fires in 2025 did not have working smoke alarms. The department achieved 98% annual training certification completion rate, and this reflects the department's strong commitment to maintaining operational readiness and ensuring staff staff required training to maintain competence competency standards. Four 14,486 residents were reached through public education and outreach initiatives last year. These engagements included fire safety and emergency management education, community events, school programs, and outreach to vulnerable populations. Emergency management staff ensured that the various components of the city's emergency management program were meant were maintained in compliance of the requirements under the provincial legislation. Fire prevention staff completed 2,994 inspections throughout the year, a 26% increase over 2024. 513 fire operations personnel completed certification training uh meeting the uh provincial required mandate ahead of time of July 1st, 2026. Fire prevention staff adjust more than 500 technical and code-related inquiries, providing guidance and support to residents, businesses, contractors, stakeholders across the community. And finally, we replaced four firefighting apparatus in 2025 as part of the department's ongoing fleet life cycle management program, helping to ensure that frontline equipment remains safe, reliable, and operationally effective. In 2025, the Halton Fire Department responded to a total of 616 fires. This represents a 23% increase from 2024. Of the 616 fires, 388, as I mentioned previously, were working structure fires. And again, significant increase over 2024. The five-year upward trend highlighted in the chart at the bottom left of the slide reflects the continued increase in overall incidents and structure fires across the city. Overall, these trends highlight the ongoing need for a proactive fire preven- prevention efforts, targeted public education, code compliance initiatives, and the need for continued investment in additional fire department resources and emergency response capabilities. Structure fires continue to be one of the most resource-intensive and high-risk incidents that the department responds to on a daily basis. 70% of the structure fires that we respond to in 2025 happened in residential occupancies. 38% of the residential structure fires occurred in single-family dwelling, while 23% occurred in multi-unit residential occupancies. The number of significant fires happening in multi-unit residential occupancies is increasing, which is a as a cause for concern. Our experience has demonstrated that we have fires in these multi-residential occupancies, multiple units are involved, leading to a higher risk probability of more injuries and potential deaths, larger portions of the building structure being impacted, all resulting in the higher number of occupants being displaced. We continue to see the trend that close to 50% of the structure fires are occurring in the city happen in wards 2, 3, and 4. And this has been consistent for a number of years. 2025, ward 3 experienced the highest percentage of structure fires, accounting for approximately 23%, followed by ward 2, approximately 10 14% and ward 4 10%. That said, structure fires are happening in all wards across the city, as you can see. The causes of the fires are behavioral-based. Certain wards continue to experience higher concentration of fires due to the factors such as populan- population density, demographics of the ward, type of building stock, and occupancy type. Again this year, the top four causes of structure fires across the city remains the same. Just the order has changed. Arson was the leading cause, accounting for 13% of all structure fires, followed by improper disposal and handling of smokers' materials at 12%, unattended cooking and electrical or a mechanical failure at 10%. We've added a fifth cause this year, ignition sources being placed too close to combustible materials, and this cause this cause accounted for 5% of all structure fires. This slide demonstrates that fires continue to have a significant human and financial impact across the city. In 2025, the Hamilton Fire Department recorded 76 fire-related injuries, predominantly in residential structure fires. This is the highest total within the 5-year reporting period and underscores the serious life safety risk people face during a fire and that the need to maintain working smoke alarms to be even more widely needed based on the the need for early warning. A total of seven fire-related deaths occurred in 2025. This was the second highest total within the last 5 years. I think it's important to take a moment to reflect on the real impacts that fire-related deaths have not only on the individual's family and friends, others that live in the occupancy, the community, the ward, the city as a whole, and the responding firefighters. Estimated dollar loss due to fires in 2025 exceeded $50 million. This equals the highest loss total that's occurred, which had previously occurred in 2022 within the past 5 years. I think these statistics reinforce the critical importance of working smoke alarms, fire prevention education, code compliance, inspections, and timely emergency response. They reinforce the importance of continued investment in fire-related community risk reduction initiatives and fire operational response resources aimed at preventing fires before they occur and minimizing the impacts when they do. The Hamilton Fire Department continued to build towards a safer and more resilient community in 2025 through preparedness, training, and prevention initiatives. The department strengthened partnerships with key key community stakeholders including Hamilton Health Sciences, public health services, and Hamilton John C. Munro International Airport. These partnerships supported coordinated emergency preparedness exercises and improved interagency response capabilities during major incidents and public events. The Emergency Management Division reviewed over 25 emergency response plans for large-scale public events across the city. Fire prevention, inspection, and enforcement activities increased across multiple service areas while staff also managed a growing number of public inquiries, freedom of information requests, and short-term rental reviews. Fire prevention and emergency preparedness outreach was delivered through the community through the community through education sessions including presentations at seniors groups, at Hamilton Public Library branches, and through collaboration with neighborhood groups. Community safety goes beyond emergency response. It depends on strong relationships, open communication, and meaningful engagement with residents and community partners across Hamilton. Throughout 2025, the Hamilton Fire Department continued to strengthen connections with the public through outreach initiatives, public education campaigns, and expanded digital communication efforts. A key area of focus was the enhancement of communication and public engagement through social media and digital outreach. Using multiple communication platforms, the department shared timely incident updates, emergency preparedness messaging, and important public safety information with the community. In 2025, the department's social media presence grew approximately 28,000 followers generating 171 public information posts and more than 339,000 impressions. These platforms played an important role in keeping residents informed during active incidents, preparing and sharing preparedness information, promoting public education campaigns, and supporting two-way communication with the community. The department also continued strengthening community partnerships through targeted outreach initiatives. One initiative was directly related to the increasing number of structure fires in Ward 3. The Keith Hilliard Community Initiative was a collaborative event that was brought together brought together the Hamilton Fire Department members, volunteers, community agencies, local organizations to support residential safety and strengthen neighborhood uh connections. More than 40 volunteers participated in this initiative hoping to engage with over 600 households through door-to-door visits. Teams checked smoke alarms, provided fire safety education, installed smoke alarms, and carbon monoxide alarms when they were required. The initiative also connected residents with a broader community supports and services. Organizations including Hamilton Family Health Team, Eva Rothwell Centre, the Inner City Out-Outreach Ministry participated to provide health care access infor- access information, family supports, and community program resource directly to the residents. The success of this initiative reflected the strong collaboration between city staff, community leaders, partner organizations, and dedicated volunteers. Feedback from the participants highlighted the value of meaningful conversations and relationship building within the community. In 2025, the Hamilton Fire Department continued investing in infrastructure modernization, innovation, and operational improvements to strengthen emergency response capabilities, improve firefighter safety, and enhance overall efficiency across the organization. Anti-idling systems were implemented on several fire fighting apparatus through the support of the Climate Change Office. These systems helped to reduce apparatus idling time, improve fuel efficiency, and lower emissions while maintaining operational readiness. New operational tools and technologies to support firefighter effectiveness and safety were put into service, including a specialized New York style hook used for pulling, prying, ripping, and opening ceilings and walls to help locate hidden fires during firefighter operations. Throughout the through the support of the provincial government and the first year of the fire protection grant program, the Halton Fire Department received approximately $220,000 that was utilized on firefighter health and cancer reduction initiatives. This included the purchase of additional decontamination units to improve on-scene cleaning practices by removing harmful contaminants from firefighters protective personal protective equipment immediately following the incidents, reducing the exposure to carcinogens, and to prevent cross-contamination. Self-contained breathing apparatus wash systems used to ensure rapid cleaning of respiratory equipment to ensure it's consistently cleaned to a high standard after an incident and improving the compliance with the cleaning standards and supporting firefighter safety were also purchased. Firefighter protective clothing drying systems were also obtained to help speed up the drying process once the gear has been decontaminated and washed so it can get back into service much faster. As [snorts] a side note, at the end of 2025, we applied to participate in the second year of the provincial funding program. In early 2026, we've been advised by the province we'll be receiving $416,000 this year from the grant for the procurement of additional equipment to support firefighter health and cancer reduction. In 20 in >> [clears throat] >> 2019, the Halton Fire Department presented our 10-year fire safety plan to this committee and council, and it was endorsed and approved. It identified a total of 89 actions across 12 strategic objectives that were meant to ensure that the fire department would be able to meet the growing needs of our city, while at the same time be able to deliver the required level of service and address our ever-changing community risk profile. Despite several significant challenges over the past years, including COVID, the COVID pandemic, and in 2024 the cyber incident, the department has continued to make steady progress advancing the plan. I'm pleased to report that as of December 31st, 2025, 84% of all actions are either complete or currently in progress. Specifically, 51% of the actions have been completed and 33% of the actions are currently underway. A smaller portion of the initiatives that are are currently on hold, not started, or deferred, and in many cases these items were due were delayed due to the actions taken that slowed down the requirement for them to be put in place. I want to make you aware that it's our intention, based on the significant progress and success that we've had to date with the 10-year plan, that we're looking to come forward to this committee and then council with the next generation 10-year service delivery plan in 2027. And in closing, on behalf of all the members of the Hamilton Fire Department, I again would like to personally thank the members of this committee and all members of council for your continued ongoing support. It's very much appreciated. Chair, I'm happy to answer any questions. >> Thank you very much, Chief. Appreciate that. We have a A of speakers, counselor Cameron Crutch. You're up first. Here you go. >> Thanks very much for the presentation. My question is going to focus specifically on multi-residential buildings and the impacts to folks who live there. I get that we have You're saying 50% of the fires are in places where there's not a working smoke alarm. And so I get that sometimes individual property owners who may own a single-family home are responsible for their smoke detector and they're going to do what they're going to do with it and we hope they're going to change their batteries, get them hardwired electrical systems, whatever it might be to make them work properly. But there's an excessive, I think, demand or requirement on landlords to ensure that for tenants those are in good working order. When they're not, I wonder what we're doing. Is there a fine system in place that's progressive? Is the fine system the same? Do we have access to penalties that are are more severe to encourage landlords to do this because I know in Ward 2 there's been a couple of instances of this for sure and some that were quite tragic and sometimes these systems are hardwired into the building's electricity. There's all kinds of things that go on, right? And so I'm just wondering if you can comment on what happens when we find there's not that compliance and how far can you go and are there other places we can go as a council to try and increase pressure on landlords to make sure that every tenant has a working alarm. >> Thank you, Chief. >> Uh through the chair to the counselor. Thank you very much for the question. So, um the requirement to have to maintain working smoke alarms in a in a in a building or a property is that of the owner and it falls under the Ontario Fire Code. So, in a multi-unit residential it is the the property owner who is responsible. Uh Uh, if we become aware that that property owner is not maintaining the fire alarm systems in uh, proper working order, then we will go in and issue an order. It's a provincial offenses order um, that's laid. They will have uh, in this case because it is life safety, a very short period of time or window to correct the issue. And if they decide not to correct the issue, then we will move to uh, uh, lay the charge. >> Are there penalties associated with that charge? >> I'm sorry? >> Are there penalties associated with the charge? >> Yes, there are. And if uh, if they decide to fight the charge, then it will end up before a justice of the peace. And based on the circumstances, whether this is a first time or this is a uh, a multi uh, re-offense uh, as well as the level of risk uh, to the occupants, when that is presented it that then the charge the the level of penalty will be determined by the justice of the peace. And in some cases, it's thousands of dollars. >> Thank you. And through the chair, when we determine the penalty, how much in your experience are we are you we usually assessing those penalties to be? >> So, through the chair to the counselor, we don't assess the charge or or the it's a provincial offenses charge. We don't have the authority to determine the charge. >> But, we do have the determine the authority to determine when we charge, or is that totally up to the courts? >> No. So, through the chair to the counselor, uh, as assistants to the fire marshal, and that's uh, the officers of the fire department as well as the folks in our fire prevention division, are provided with the authority to uphold the the Ontario fire code. And based on that, with when we find that somebody is in non-compliance, then we have the obligation to provide an inspection order telling them that they must bring this into compliance. And as such, if they don't, then we have the ability then to move to charge. >> Okay. Um, my last question is just about something we've been talking about very broadly that you probably aren't aware of, but shifting our bylaw office and the way we do things from compliance to enforcement. So, there's been a culture at the city of Hamilton for a long time where we're asking property owners to comply, comply, comply. Um and it seems as though that has allowed people to skirt around issues, not take them as seriously. Do you have the authority to just sort of go immediately in there, especially if there's been a fire in a building where you've discovered this, and just charge someone immediately? Do you have to give them a a certain amount of notice? Uh don't they know? They should presumably know they have to meet these requirements under the law. Can we be more aggressive in our approach? >> So, through the chair to the counselor, we are. >> Okay. >> So, uh back in 2016 when we suffered three triple fatalities within a 4-month period, um as chief, I made the decision that whenever we have a fire that impacts significant impacts people, injury, or fatality, automatic charge. >> Okay. Thank you so much for this. I really appreciate knowing more about it. >> Uh thank you for your report. >> Thank you, Counselor Crich. Next speaker would be Counselor Tom Jackson, please. Mike's on. >> Thank you very much, Chair Clark. Outstanding presentation, Chief uh Cunliffe. Thank you for your leadership, and Deputy Milanovic as well, and the entire 800-plus that uh make up our fire service, second to none in the province of Ontario. Three quick questions. Chief, forgive my cheekiness, but we have worked together for a number of years, so hopefully you'll accept my cheekiness for the cheekiness I'm going to express it in. Uh question one, 50% of properties with fires did not have working smoke alarms. What happened to your public education uh program, Chief? I thought we're going to make sure we got into every home, every building, and we'll even offer a free fire alarm to anyone, so that we'll reduce the number of fires that occur because they don't have working smoke alarms. Accept that place in the sincerity of the cheekiness I provided it. >> I I I would I would deem that to be cheeky, but not unparliamentary, so please. >> But the chief knows where I'm coming from. >> Feel free to be cheeky back. >> Okay. Thank you, Chair. Through you to the counselor, I will. No. >> [laughter] >> Counselor, I appreciate where you're coming from because I have I have the same sentiment that I have personally. Um we have gone to great lengths to do everything we can to help people first and foremost recognize the importance of smoke alarms. And the fact that with fires burning hotter and faster today, they basically have seconds, not minutes, to recognize there's an issue and to get out. And so, yes, we go door to door. Yes, we offer free smoke alarms and CO alarms. Yes, we'll go and install them. Yes, we're out there telling every chance we can that people need to have them. This all comes back to the same type of issue we're dealing with with fire costs. This is a behavioral issue. People don't understand nor do they want to recognize that you know, this this is a problem. It could impact them because, you know, when you [snorts] see we have 388 working structure fires, that's a lot of structure fires. But when you look at it in the totality, when you look at the number of residents and building that we have, it is not necessarily a significant number. People have that mindset. It's not going to happen to me. Well, I will tell you, counselor, it will. It's a matter of time because we're seeing that. Um you talk to folks that and that unfortunately go through a smoke go through a structure fire, and I have that opportunity. I'm on scene along with members of my leadership team when those fires happen. And you talk to people, they never thought it would happen to them. And so, the challenge is how do we get people to see this as something that is absolutely imperative, and it is something that's going to save their lives. So, that's our challenge, counselor, and and we continue need and um go head-on with that challenge Um and we actually are having conversations on a number of fronts with mental health professionals, addiction professionals because a lot of this is it's about the lifestyles that many people have and it's about what their priorities are within that, right? And let's face it, we know if it comes to replacing a smoke alarm a $40 smoke alarm versus putting some food on the table, I think we know what the decision's going to be. But they also have to remember that that smoke alarm is the device that's going to save their life. >> Great answer Chief Counsel of them for no other reason you got that on the public record. You're doing your utmost to get to every property in this community whether multi-res, commercial, residential. I think that was good you reinforced the fact you're still have your free alarm carbon monoxide program and you're doing your darndest to get to every homeowner, every property to educate them on the importance of it. Second and last question Chair Clark through you. Do you have the staffing equipment and resources to respond to the growing demand not only with the growing demand of fires that you've indicated, but the growing demands and the growth overall of our city? Through you Chair Clark, please. >> Thank you Chief. So through the chair to counselor I really appreciate this question um because it gives me an opportunity to talk a little bit about in 2019 when we put forward our 10-year fire service delivery plan. That plan clearly outlined three areas of the city that we were planning for and we were seeing significant growth at the time and we knew there was going to be additional growth that was coming. It's all coming to fruition. In fact, in many cases it's here now. And we've been doing our darndest because we recognize you know the financial position of the city to work with the resource capacity that we have today. But quite clearly we're now getting to that point where we're pushing the envelope relative to the amount of growth we have in the risk. And I will identify for you. So you will see in 2027 as part of the budget, you will see a request to get the staff to be able to open the Waterdown station. That's another 17 staff firefighters to turn what has been a day day truck Monday to Friday into 24/7 to help us have the resources within that community that we need to deal with the risk profile and the types of incidents that we are facing. The same thing is happening in Lower Stoney Creek in Winona and we knew and and quite frankly we know and can see you know readily the growth that's happened there and the increase in risk. We are seeing that very clearly in terms of the number of responses in the in the Winona area. In 2025 the volunteers did their very best to sustain almost 500 incidents that they're responding to. But that it's not sustainable and we knew that we'd have to we'd have to move to putting in a full-time crew in Winona. And what we're doing is we're we've you know the time has come we have to transition to that. And in terms of the transition I right now we've got engineering study going on relative to the Winona station looking at how we can expand renovate that station to accommodate a full-time apparatus. But in the meantime we need to move to a Monday to Sunday 12-hour day crew full-time day crew and that will be part of what I'll be bringing forward in terms of the 2027 budget as well just to be able to sustain the response that's required. And then Upper Stoney Creek is Councillor Clark a chair knows more than well we identified that as certainly the growth had started well before 2019, but it's just continued. In in 2021 we put a day crew on Monday to Friday to try and deal with some of that. We also were working on a station location at Upper Centennial and Regional Road 20. Unfortunately, there's been some delays in our ability to access that and so as I reported last year we've turned our sights to the existing station on Isaac Brock and Mud. We have an engineering study going on there right now in terms of what that expansion and renovation can be, but in the meantime we need to further extend that day crew to a Monday to Sunday 12 hours to help. We're again you start to see the the amount of calls and the the level of resources now required and that resources is coming from other areas of the city. In fact, we had an incident the other night at at one of the commercial properties along Rymal and and quite frankly that we had the one truck cuz it was after the the hours 4:00 when the day crew went home during the week and and then we're pulling trucks literally from Kenilworth Avenue to come up there and so the time has come. We have to do something and you'll see that I'll be looking to acquire additional five firefighters and extend that to a 7-day a week 12 hours next year. So to answer your question relative to the demand piece counselor, yes, we do need more resources and clearly we've been doing our best to to deal with with the growth with what we have and we're now at that point where we can't do that anymore. The other thing that this committee will see on June 18th is that we have been having some challenge relative to our overtime and and negative variances over the last couple of years. I'll be bringing the report forward in terms of a strategy and how to do deal with that because what we've seen is our staffing model that we've been using for decades and I mean decades was put in place at a time where they didn't have things like WSIB and didn't have things in terms of early safe return and things in terms of LTD. And so, we see a continuous constant number of folks off every day because of that, which is causing us some issues relative to staffing and also putting a significant burden on our existing workforce because what it means is by taking overtime shifts, they're actually being more exposed to the traumatic incidents and we know that the number of traumatic incidents are on the rise and it's starting to lead itself to some offshoot which is um some PTSD claims for mental health. So, I'll be bringing that in February. I I sorry, in June of on the 18th. >> Well, to to wrap up my comments, Chief Clark, what a comprehensive but sobering preview you're giving us of both both the state of condition of fire service in our city and giving whoever is lucky enough to be here next year an advance alert of the budget pressure that'll be coming but sounds like desperately needed to meet the growing demand and the growing demand of both the current firefighters a compliment in your service and what they're being exposed to more and more in a more dangerous setting as well as the overall growth of our of our great city and Chief, again, we're just lucky to have you in the position you are. Thanks very much, Chief Clark. >> Thank you, Councillor Jackson. The next speaker up is Councillor Tammy Wang. I want to remind my colleagues that we are down to our bare quorum number of four. So, if you can all please stay in the room and we'll try and get through this agenda as quickly as we can. Thank you. Let's marshal on. Councillor Wang, please. >> Hi, Chief. Thank you so much for your presentation. I did have a chance to read through your emergent your evaluation to 2025 plan that you have stuffed in all of our mailboxes, so thank you very much. Uh I wonder if you could just give us a sense as to your reaction time and your time of deployment. Those are type of metrics we tend to hear from the police and from the paramedics, but I didn't really quite see them here in these reports. So, I wonder if you can just give us a sense as as to how we're doing in terms of getting out, especially because you've also mentioned that fires are getting burning faster and hotter. >> Chief So, through the chair of the counselor, thank you for the question. Um and it's a it's a really good one. So, I'll speak to the urban areas if if if that's okay, uh specifically in in terms of your ward. So, we look at uh response time as total response time. So, the clock starts for us with the minute the 911 call is answered. And what I can tell you is is that um our answering when we answer the 911 call to process the call. So, our folks do both call taking and dispatching, so they're it's a combined is under a minute that they're taking that information and getting it out to the trucks. It's then under another minute uh before when the the tones go out to the stations in terms of what we call turnout time when they have the ability to get their gear on and they get on the trucks and get out the door. And then when in terms of the urban areas, our total response time is just over 7 minutes. So, from the time we get the call to when we get on scene in the urban areas is 7 minutes. I I think you'll find that relative to other emergency services, that's extremely quick and that's 90th percentile. >> Excellent. Yeah, um I happen to be nearby when one of the businesses in Ottawa Street uh went up and it was literally like just minutes. And so, at that time there were seven trucks that were already there inside of a 10 to 15 minute time frame. So, that's all I just want I really wanted to understand that deployment and that um that quick response time. Shifting gears, uh Chief, I'd like to really dig a little more into understanding your fire prevention and fire prevention teams. I've had the pleasure and the opportunity of connecting with some of your fire teams around inspections. Uh some of it was around the safe apartment bylaws. Other one was around small businesses. So, I wonder if you can give me a better sense and understanding because I do note that you have less than 3,000 inspections in this last annual report. However, it just feels like uh we're calling upon you more and more and more um specifically on that fire prevention side. So, I wonder if you could dig a little bit deeper and just share a little more about that particular area in your in your group. >> Thank you, Councillor. Chief. So, uh through the through the chair to the Councillor, again, thank you for the question. So, I I want to just sort of set so you have an overall view of this. So, there are there are a number of areas where we are mandated to do inspections, okay? So, vulnerable occupancies were mandated by the province to complete those inspections. Part of the the business licensing piece, we also are required to do those inspections. Um but typically here in the city, uh based on the level of service currently been we've been directed by Council, inspections are done based on request or complaint. Okay? And so, it's not proactive. One of the things that uh we certainly are watching and again, this is all about resource and resource deployment. We're watching and I will tell you multi-unit residential buildings are top of mind for us because you look at where things are starting to go in terms of the increased number that we're seeing. You start to see the impacts in terms of the impacts on people and the occupants, the displacement, and also the amount of damage. A majority of these the type buildings and properties have built-in fire life safety systems. And so one of the things that we're starting to take a look at is what from a community risk profile perspective it was identified that we have to start start considering do we do we start to look at a proactive approach to some of these and what does that look like? So those that's some of the thought process that we're doing right now to see how we how we can expand and also being mindful of what the potential resources but we're it it's about the risk and the offsetting outcomes. >> Councillor. >> Thank you, Chief. That gives me a lot to chew on and think about. My last question, again, another shift in line of questioning is the arson aspect of this. >> Mhm. >> Um I do recall seeing arson as top five in the last couple of reports. I don't recall if it was top number one. Um so is that's like what are we doing I think [snorts] I'm just very surprised and very saddened to see arson as a number one cause on this last [snorts] year's report. So I wonder what are some of the ways that we can work with police or work with other sort of areas in order to curb that particular behavior because that is obviously a malicious behavior. So I just wonder what's what are the options or the opportunities there? >> Chief. So through the chair to the councillor. So we we want to put things in perspective. Yes, arson was number one but only by 1%. >> Mhm. >> Okay? Uh it has been in the top four at different times and it moves around. We do have a a close working relationship with Hamilton Police Service and the arson investigator. One of the things is that you you have to be mindful in terms of some of this. Arson happens for many reasons, right? You may have businesses that are struggling and all of a sudden there's a fire. You may have circumstances where you have vacant buildings where somebody gets into that building and there's a fire with no other means of ignition, uh that would be deemed arson. It may actually be folks that are trying to live there, get out of the elements. So, again, the term arson has many different categories underneath it. Um what I would say to you is again, the challenge is is that this is behavioral. And so, there are many many different aspects that are driving people to do this. And so, what we try and do and and this is working with the police service is to assist in whatever way we can during the investigations because in terms of um um trying to curb this or trying to trying to get people to recognize that it's not acceptable is they need to have convictions. They need to be able to demonstrate and get people that you know and and show the public that we're not going to stand and let this happen. So, again, a lot of that piece is more on the police side but from our perspective again, it's about trying to educate people relative to the impacts of arson. >> Thank you. Thank you, Chief. That's that's all all my questions and you chair. >> Thank you. Are there any other first-time speakers? Seeing none, Vice Chair, if I can have you take the chair, please. Um just a couple of questions and I'd like to zero in on on the arson question. >> [snorts] >> When And looking at the top five car causes, that's only representing 50% of the the causes. So, there is a chart that's not on this presentation that would have all of the other different issues and and the things that are causing it. The vast majority of the causes of fires in Hamilton is behavioral base. Is that an accurate statement? >> Through the chair to the to the counselor, that is correct. And so, what you will find in terms of other causes, there'll be a number that are undetermined. >> Mhm. >> Uh just whether we were able or not unable to determine it or whether the fire marshal's office was. And in some cases, that's where you get a large piece of that extra component. >> Thank you. Um I'm going to ask some parochial questions, if you don't mind. There was a significant fire recently in Ward 9 at Echo Valley and um Mud Street. Um can you speak to the response time, how aggressive that fire was demonstratively in such short order, and trying to get people out of the building while the fire was actually happening. Could you just give us a enlighten us a little bit, please? >> Through the chair [snorts] to the counselor, I don't have the specific response times, counselor, but I can tell you it was relatively quick. >> Were you at the station? >> the street. Exactly road station. Yeah. And I know that as the the the crew out of that station was trying to get dressed, there was cars in the in the approach honking to try and get them to come out the door. It was like, "Can you move your car so we can get out?" Um but I can tell I can tell you that that fire had a good head start based on the information that we've been provided to date. The fire originated in one of the vehicles that was parked under the under overhang or overhang of the one of the units. That fire the decking of the overhang was it was basically wood decking material. So as the fire grew in intensity it actually got involved in the decking. It also then because of the of the temperature it took the the window out of the of the front door which then allowed the fire to get into that one unit and then took the windows out of the garage door which let it get into the garage. As the fire then got through the decking system it was licking up the facade at the front. So very quickly and the other piece that comes into play is that there were no fire breaks. They were in terms of the the fire breaks between the buildings were not concrete block walls. They were drywall. And so once it got in and started lapping and which is allowed under the building code and so by the time it was noticed it was well on its way and in terms of the amount of impact there were six units that were impacted three of which have already been torn down. >> Yeah there was one fellow that had to escape off his balcony because of the design of the building it and that has become an issue with residents because they have argued that the original plan showed an egress out the front towards Mud Street as well as out beside the carport. That's where the entrance was right directly beside the carport that was on fire. And that second egress was removed during site plan. So the only entrance is in is either through the carport where the vehicles are on fire or through the front door entrance which is right beside the fire. And so, the design of those units draws a lot of questions. When we're talking about the building code, is that something that the municipality can address through recommendations to the solicitor general? Um when we're looking at how fast fires can move between units on townhouses, because I would assume many of the townhouses do not have a a concrete or brick firewall between units in the attics. >> So, through the uh chair to the council. So, there's a whole lot of conversation taking place uh at the provincial level and the federal level, but at the provincial level with the Ontario Association of Fire Chiefs and the solicitor general's office, and I have been involved in some of those conversations. Our challenge is is that as um we're moving into a a world of high-density building, um we are now starting to see where there is typically one way out. Um especially when you see the back-to-backs like you have in your ward, uh certainly along Rymal Road, um where you only have one way. Uh that's correct. You know, so at the front door. And so, that is a concern um because we're having to use and educate the homeowners that they're going to have to use other means to get out, other means and ways, whether it's through windows or or or or through balconies and or whatever the the the case may be. And so, yeah, we're we're having those types of conversations because I I think as for uh certainly as the large urban fire services in the province, we're seeing the same challenge. And but it I will tell you it it is as I'm sure you know from your past, it's a lengthy process to try and get change to some of these types of legislation. >> Yeah, sometimes we need a little bit push and I would argue Vice Chair that that push can come from municipal municipalities who who are having experience, not just the fire chiefs, but they're seeing this um to hear from residents afterwards and it was really quite interesting because they either bought those units or they rented out those units. They never thought about a second exit in a fire. And then it happened and they were in a nightmare literally with fire licking at them as they're trying to get out a balcony to jump down to get away from the fire cuz they could not go down through the stairs. So it was very scary for for a lot of people and that fire moved very fast. Um so I'll talk to you offline about some type of motion where we can advocate for changes to the building code and we can advocate for changes with regards to the firewalls as well as egresses. We certainly do it in basement apartments. We require second egress. Don't understand why we don't do it generally in in other units. The last question that I have and I I appreciate we have been working on increasing the manpower [snorts] at the Heritage Green station. Um Uh they are a great crew both part-timers and full-timers. I know many of them uh and they do an amazing job for this municipality and I'm grateful for for that service. While the urban boundary expansion question is still happening through the OLT and and for the record for the public who's tuning in, the Alfrieda urban boundary expansion hearing will not begin until January 2027. Um in the meantime my ward has not stopped growing. Um, we've got issues right now because the housing market has changed, but prior to that, people would indicate it has been an explosion of growth in Ward 9. And so, we have been looking at, it's in the long-term plan, um, the fire station uh, at Centennial and Rymal, Centennial and Regional 20. Um, your assessment as to whether or not we should begin that process now given everything that's going on in terms of growth in the community, and, um, I don't want to read the tea leaves, but I'm not feeling exactly warm and fuzzy that the Ontario Land Tribunal is going to support council's decision on the urban boundary expansion. I believe that they're going to come back and and and change that. And so, we're going to be right into background studies, which we've already done. So, the question is should we, or do you need direction to begin that process to expedite that station? >> So, through the chair to the counselor, thank you for the question because it speaks to exactly what we've started to do, and that was why we shifted gears temporarily, uh, to look at the existing Isaac Brock station, and that's why the engineering study's going on right now to see how we can expand or renovate that station to accommodate the resources that we've needed and need now in terms of that additional full-time apparatus, but we haven't lost sight of what's happening at Regional Road 20 and Upper Centennial cuz that's a strategic location for us, uh, for future growth. I would suggest to you regardless of what happens with Elfrida in terms of >> to happen. >> It has to happen. And so, we have had those conversations with real estate. There's a number of other [snorts] city divisions that are interested in that. Um I think we are probably 2 to 3 years before that gets figured out, but I will assure you that that I am my staff, we're at the table telling people we are moving forward with a fire station at in the upper Centennial and and Highway 20 area. It's just timing now. Initially, we have to get the Isaac Brock station renovated and and expanded. And that's So, the goal is right now is that within the next 2 to 3 years that has to happen for us. >> And so, maybe some of these questions should be taken offline, Vice Chair. Um I fully support what you're doing with Isaac Brock. I have been fully supportive of the new fire station ambulance combined. We know it's required. Um all of the data shows it's required. Um one of the challenges is that that property is actually outside the urban boundary. And so, we have to address that to move forward. Um so, I'll I'll meet with you offline. I've been telling my residents, we've already said yes to the fire station. The fire station is coming. The new ambulance station is coming. It's a question of of how quickly we can get it in play. And we've got a few things that are in the air all at the same time while we're trying to do this. In the meantime, we have increased um the number of firefighters in the Isaac Brock station, and we continue to do that. Last question. Um and it's more area rating based, but Vice Chair, the Isaac Brock station is not a full-time station. The Isaac Brock station is a hybrid. And what we mean by that is that we have full-time staff there, but we also have part-time staff who are basically volunteers who are at that station. But when you look at the map where it talks about the urban area, the suburban area, and and then the rural area, the density in Ward 9 has gotten to the point where we we should be looking at a shift from a hybrid to full-time all the time. Can you speak to that? >> Certainly. Through the Through the chair to the counselor. So, uh what we're doing, uh counselor, is we're trying to maximize the effectiveness of the composite response. And part of that is increasing the full-time component of that. We believe uh that that area is well-served by a composite area, but we do have to get more full-time resources in there to complement that. Because the you can we can only look to have the from a volunteer response perspective, it's becoming more and more difficult certainly daytime say 7:00 to 7:00 versus at night and on weekends. And so that's that's the idea and the plan in terms of getting that additional the second full-time apparatus, which would be a ladder, uh into the Isaac Brock station, increasing the complement of volunteers at the same time up to 25. It's at 15 now. And then we would then look to when the new station's built to put a third full-time apparatus there. So between three full-time apparatus and a complement of 25 volunteers, based on my professional experience, I'm more than confident that that would be able to deal with the level of risk that's in that part of the community. >> Um thank you for that. So we'll have a little chat offline about the motion to advocate for changes to the building code in two specific areas. And then, um, I can bring that forward at a at either NECS meeting or GIC meeting. Those are all my questions, Vice Chair Wang. If I can, uh, if you can relinquish the chair, I'll take it back. Are there any questions for the Chief? Seeing none, Chief, you did an excellent job today. Thank you very much for attending. We're very supportive of everything that you're putting forward. Um, and I know our community is very supportive of the fire service. So, thank you very much. And please thank all of your fire officers. They do an amazing job in the city. They are the folks, ladies and gentlemen, that are running into an emergency when everybody else is running out. And and they do it very bravely. I need a mover and second to put the receipt of the presentation and the report. Councillor Tom Jackson, you seem to be excited to do it. Councillor Alex Wilson, you're joining him with that enthusiasm. Um, we'll need one vote for both and it's by show of hands. And that's carried unanimously. Thank you very much. We're moving on to item 7.4, which is SC, oh, sorry, SC 2603, Community Safety Wellbeing Annual Report 2026. Every so often my dyslexia comes in and I see words backwards. So, my apologies. Jessica Chase, Director, Children and Community Services, would you provide the committee with an overview? Director. >> Thank you, through the chair. Uh, what's before you today is the annual Community Safety and Wellbeing Plan Annual Report. Um, so, as a reminder, the Community Safety and Wellbeing Plan was updated and endorsed by Council last May. And this report highlights the work that's been accomplished to date. Highlights a number of the accomplishments from the plan as well as ongoing engagement that's taken place with the community. It highlights a number of key actions. I won't walk through all of them, but uh, give you some examples such as the recent launch of our community safety and well-being plan dashboard, which brings together various data indicators to track and monitor community safety trends and to help better inform decision-making that's happening in the community and in the city. It also highlights a number of recent engagement activities that continue to ensure that the plan reflects the voices and the priorities of our community. And lastly, it includes the launch of our community safety and well-being action plan, which identifies actions that both the city and the community are taking together to address these priorities. The action plan is an implementation guide and it's intended to continue to evolve with time so that it continues to be responsive to community needs and emerging issues. I would like to take just a moment to acknowledge a few folks. First of all, I'd like to thank and acknowledge the members of our systems advisory and leadership team or SALT for short as we call it. This group continues to guide the work and we actually have a number of folks here in council chambers today from our SALT leadership table as well as a number of folks that I know are watching online. I do want to recognize that we have the Hamilton reps from the Hamilton Round Table for Poverty Reduction, the Hamilton Wentworth Catholic District School Board, Hamilton Child and Family Services are here as well as a number of my colleagues internally that sit at that table including Public Health, Ontario Works, and Indigenous Relations. And I also would like to particularly acknowledge that my co-chair for the SALT table Superintendent Cannick from Hamilton Police Services is here as well and continues to support that plan and is available to also answer any questions. And then lastly, I would be remiss if I didn't also acknowledge and thank the team that's sitting here behind me from our Children's and Community Services team, Rochelle, Daniel, and Christie, who have all been instrumental in continuing to advance this work. So with that, I would welcome any questions that you have. >> Thank you, Councillor Tom Jackson, please. >> Thank you, uh Chair Clark. Thank you so much, Director Chase. And I just want to hopefully you can elaborate and no community safety and well-being uh successful plan can be done without the collaboration and cooperation of Hamilton Police Service. I'm delighted to see the new acting Deputy Chief Dave Henick here with us. So, maybe can you for public consumption elaborate how we're working closely with Hamilton Police Services as well on this program? Through you, Chair Clark, please. >> Director Chase, and then we can always go to the acting Deputy Chief. >> Um yes, I'm happy through the chair to start and then would uh would welcome the acting Deputy Chief. Sorry, uh I got your title wrong there. Um if he wishes to share any additional remarks as well. Um so, Hamilton Police Services have been an an absolute instrumental partner in this work. As I shared, they co-chair. So, myself from representing the city um and I keep wanting to say Superintendent acting Deputy Chief. >> I got the latest news. >> Um uh co-chairs alongside me um and both play an important role. So, police um play an important role when it comes to community safety around um the work that they do. Um and this is actually tied to the Community Safety um and Policing Act. This work um the city plays a very important role in terms of prevention, but we work very closely with uh police in terms of supporting this work. Um and I will maybe just turn it back to the top with the Chamber lady to see if you wish to add anything. >> Thank you, Director Chase. Uh thank you. And through you, Chair, Councillor, thanks for the question. Um for me, this really just comes down to the relationships. We work so closely um um Chief um with Chief from Fire, with uh Grace Mater, from Jessica, from Dan, with uh Rochelle, from everybody that you see here. And so, we've already prior to uh our work here have such great working relationships that allow us to communicate, break down those barriers, and ensure that we can provide the best service as possible to the community. And so, I just I want to recognize Grace Mayor Jessica and their team cuz this city is in great hands with her dedication and work, and I think you'll see that as we go through the plan today. So, just I want to acknowledge them and their leadership. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Acting Deputy Chief Henig and Director Chase. It's a model that other areas and other departments I hope would emulate. I'm very supportive of their continued work. Thanks, Chair Clark. >> Thank you. Vice Chair Wang, you have the floor. >> Thank you. I also truly appreciate this work. I know I follow this very, very closely. I just wonder, how do We have a lot of really big priorities. We have um a lot of the gender-based violence, there is um youth violence on the rise, there is uh like there's just a lot. And how how are we um actioning through all of these because I recognize that the action plan has a lot of different moving parts to it. So, just practically, from a practical sense, is 2.5 FTE even a able to get this done? >> Uh through the chair, you're absolutely right. There are a lot of priorities within the plan, and many of them are big, complex challenges that our community continues to face. Um so, while the team within uh Children's and Community Services is quite small, um we do work really closely both internally and externally, and we rely upon those partnerships. So, it's not necessarily our team that is doing all of the work on each of these priorities. Um and that's why you'll see reflected in the plan um in the action plan, there are a number of other partners that are identified that take the lead on various initiatives. I think the important role that that our team plays as well as the systems advisory and leadership table is around coordination of these issues and how do we better connect the dots. We certainly do not want to duplicate efforts. We know that there's many different community tables that exist that are tackling some of these big issues that our community is facing and our role we see as as connecting those dots to those tables and helping to break down silos which we have heard continues to be a priority. >> Community safety guys. What's happening out there? Anyway, thank you so much director for that. Um I think my big overarching question is what does success look like? Because these reports are excellent in saying this is what we're doing, but the the need is so big on so many different fronts. So I'm struggling to understand like I don't know what the finish line looks like. Um and so I don't how are we how are we baselining this and how are we mapping against ourselves and how are we showing improvement? So there's a data dashboard in here, um but again, I I don't I don't know how we quantify what success looks like. So if you can help me understand that a little bit better. >> Director. >> Uh through the chair. Um so from my perspective success looks at a number of different indicators some of which the city has responsible responsibility for, but many of which our partners also have responsibility for. So the intent of the dashboard is actually about bringing together various indicators. So we include data from police services in that. We include data from our school board partners and bringing all those together. There isn't one measure that I would say um gives us a good sense overall of how we're doing. It's the collection of all of those measures together that look at how we address community safety and well-being for for Hamiltonians. >> I appreciate that. I wonder if there is an element where we're going out and asking the community to help us define what success looks like as well. Because I will tell you that when I speak to residents, I get everything from I don't feel safe walking in downtown to I don't see any movement on gender-based violence to I don't like like their measures of success are so all over the place, but then the need is so great. So again, I wonder if part of that success that dashboard might be a bit of a temperature gauge as to how our Hamiltonians and the residents in Hamilton are feeling about safety in their community. >> Director. >> Uh through the chair. Um absolutely, I think it's important that we continue to include the community voice in this and get that feedback. Um we've engaged um a couple of thousand residents to various community engagement activities through surveys, through community safety summits that were held last fall, our launch event. Um and the intent is that as we move forward, uh we will continue to engage with community so that we receive that feedback. Um and I think that that will include opportunities for us to do that directly with residents, but also looking to the partners that sit around the table um to bring that voice as well. >> Last question through you, Chair, is a question around KPIs coming from economic development. There are things like walk scores, and there's things like um happiness factors. And is there something like that that we can refer to to help us, again, come back with understanding like how are we how are we comparing against ourselves, but also with other municipal comparators? So, is there something like that? >> Director. >> Through the chair. That's a tricky one. I'm not aware of a measure that is universally adopted across municipalities. However, it's certainly a question that I think we could go back and continue to have some conversations with our colleagues across the province that are doing this work. Um the one piece though that does come to mind that I think was really important um and it's not a score per se um but was that in Hamilton we defined what community safety was for our community and I think that's really important so that we have a collective definition of safety. Um and that includes not just physical safety but um how welcoming our community is um and that folks feel feel safe and feel sense of well-being within Hamilton. >> Thank you. Those are all my questions. Thank you. >> Thank you, Vice Chair. If you'd like to take the chair for me. >> Mhm. >> So, page four of 14. So, we're talking about building safer communities. And then it says um middle paragraph multi-year investments engaged over 2,000 youth with focused prevention, early intervention, wrap-around support in neighborhoods experiencing a high level of risk. What neighborhoods? >> Through the chair. Um we engaged through our building safer community fund and most of that funding went out to community agencies. We had nine different agencies that were involved. Um my understanding and I'm I am going to look to see if there's anything that the team behind me wants to add to this, but my understanding is that um those programs did span across the city. >> That's correct. >> that's correct. Yes. >> Councillor. >> So do we have any data on Ward [clears throat] 9 or Ward 10? How many youth were involved there? >> Through the chair, I don't believe we've broken down the data specific to wards. We would certainly have to go back to our community partners who have collected the data for each of their individual programs to determine whether or not they have a ward breakdown or not. I'm not aware of it. >> I would appreciate that. When the province initiated this, this came from the province. Did they set framework and um >> [snorts] >> key performance indicators for the program or did they just say, "We want you to do this?" >> Director. Through the chair, so the province mandates that every municipality has a community safety and well-being plan. They don't set out key indicators. However, there are a number of different elements that [clears throat] they do mandate that we have included in our community safety and well-being plan. So, we do have to have a table that guides the work, which is our systems advisory and leadership table. We do need to have certain governance processes such as how do we identify emerging issues? So, we've done a lot of work in the last year or so with the group to identify and put those governance processes into place. So, there are not specific data indicators. However, there are certain parts of the the framework that are mandated that we have in place. >> Councillor. >> And does the province assess the performance of the community safety and well-being plans? Do they do they say, "Ottawa's number one and Hamilton's number two?" Do they do that kind of thing? >> Through the chair, we're required to submit a copy of the plan, but there is no assessment of the plan that comes back. In terms of >> Who do we submit it to? >> Through the chair, it's the Ministry of the Solicitor General. >> Well, I hope it's not gathering dust in his office. Um That was me being sarcastic. I might apologies. Um if if I may vice chair, I'd like to ask a few questions about the acting deputy chief, not about the acting but to the acting deputy chief. My apologies if I got you nervous there for a second. >> We got all of his partners here so probably could go on all night. >> support so no problem. Um We are seeing not just in downtown Hamilton but we are seeing an increase in youth crime across the municipality. I'm going to say a few things and then if you could speak to them, please. So we are seeing an increase in youth crime um and it and it appears to be that they are young offenders for the most part and [snorts] either amateur organized crime or real organized crime is is convincing these young people that you can do this. I'll give you money. I'll give you the gun. If you get arrested, you're not you're not going to jail anyways. And and we're seeing that in the community. In my ward, I am seeing residents who are afraid to go outside because of the behavior of young people in the ward. Um We've had two shootings in the ward which is a little bit unusual for um basically a rural cross-section with in with the city. Can you just speak to what's actually happening um from your viewpoint not just in my ward but in the city about youth crime. >> Absolutely. And thank you. And I guess I was going to say through you, chair, but I'll answer your question directly. >> [laughter] >> So, we are seeing youth crime increased across the city. I have a couple of stats here that I'd like to share with you. So, in 2021, we had 672 youth involved in occurrences. In 2025, it's a 67% increase, I believe, up to 1,111 >> Wow. >> incidents. And so, we've seen a drastic increase there. As far as youth involved in violent crime, from 20 to 2025, we've seen, I guess, a 69% increase. Um Just as concerning or maybe equally more concerning is harm related to those offenses committed by those under 17 has increased by 40%. And so, we've seen that across the city. We've seen youth getting involved with bear spray. So, that's up over 100%. Youth using bear spray in the commission of robberies up over 400%. And that actually What that actually caused us to do as a salt table, we as a service raised it as an issue. And uh Counselor Wang, you had actually asked what the success looked like. Through this process, I can honestly say through Dan's work and his dashboard that he is creating, a conversation was had about what everyone is seeing across the city with youth involvement. The dashboard helped highlight, and it was really looking at our data, youth involved in crime below the age of 12. And [snorts] what I would call like like a wake behind a boat, what is coming up that we haven't seen yet. And while, you know, the Hamilton Police Service raised it at through the issue identification alert form, what was really interesting around the table is that it the conversation shifted from we have concerns about youth involved with crime in our community to my colleague sharing information with me about the number of youth using methamphetamine and the increase in drug usage, hearing about McMaster Hospital being in surge capacity for youth suffering from mental health. And it transferred the conversation into not just youth being involved in crime, but families struggling in our community, and potentially a a greater wave of need coming up through and demand on some of our systems. And it really highlighted families struggling in the city. >> [gasps] >> The mayor actually attended one of our last meetings, which is our kickoff meeting for the issue identification on youth crime table, and spent 2 hours with us listening to all of the discussions, where everyone leaders in our community came together to talk about what what each of us could do to enhance our response to youth to youth becoming involved in crime in our community. And I left feeling very positive from that conversation. We still have work to do to collate the data that came from that meeting meeting to talk about next steps. Um What was interesting through some of those discussions was talking about youth concerned and feeling for talking about hope, talking about jobs, volunteer opportunities, things like that, different ways that we can engage use youth positively. Um and I'll give you an example, something that's really a positive program that's happening in our community and there's many. That's what That's what was highlighted around the table is that there's actually a lot of really good things happening in Hamilton to engage youth proactively, upstream, and preventatively. Some of those programs though have been impacted negatively by um the the ending of the Building Safer Communities Fund that had ended that federal funding. So, we're hoping to see that that um gets restarted, but Lilly Wilson from uh the YMCA, they run a program called the YES program. So, it's currently uh delivered at the Mountain Youth Centre. Runs every Thursday from 4:00 to 5:30 from May 14th to June 4th this one particular. They have 45-minute workshops um on topics like guns and gangs, drug use, misuse, online safety, and bear spray. And they also get 45 minutes of recreation in the gym with officers. So, engaging with us to build those relationships. And this is just one of the many programs I know just our service works on as well in partnering with the Y. Um So, they have 15 youth in that program right now. And um despite the ending of the funding, Lilly and her team have decided to keep that program going. And so, there's there's lots of good work happening in the community which gives me like I'm optimistic about, but there's lots for us to be concerned about and I think that the creation and formation of this table will be important and for all of us to come together to find ways to enhance the services even further within our current funding portfolios cuz there's no funding that comes with this plan. And that That is one of the the shortcomings of this mandated legislation. Thank you, Councillor. >> Councillor >> Um >> We're in the light. >> I I >> appreciate that. Uh here's some of the things we're seeing in my ward and I think we're seeing them in all wards, but I think it's important that we highlight them. >> [snorts] >> Um uh youth gangs that we did not have in the ward in past decades. We have them now. Um running into retail stores and raiding it of supplies and are running out the front door as fast as they can and nobody can catch them and nobody wants to intervene because they're afraid of what they're carrying. That is happening. Literally terrifying um customers and and employees of those those operations. This is occurring. Um we have um youth stealing purses. We have youth stealing things out of grocery carts and and I mean it's prolific and it seems to be growing and it seems to be that they're being enticed and then exploited by people who know better but know that they can get the youth to do the crime for them and if they get caught, it's young offenders, so it's not a big deal as long as they don't rat me out. And that seems to be what's happening. And we hear it from parents and I hear from parents "What can I do to help my kid get away from those gangs?" And I don't have an answer. And when I read this plan, um it's not doing anything for me in Ward 9. And we're seeing guidance counselors in our high schools experiencing things where high school kids are coming to school with no lunches, no money, and no food, no snacks, nothing. And so, the Heritage Green Community Trust, we created funds to provide money to those high schools to provide them food to make sure that they're at least nourished. They're not getting the supports at home. Families at home um are desperate. They're looking for jobs to pay their bills. They can't afford what's going on. They're distracted, and when the parents are distracted, the kids are distracted, and they can fall prey to, in my humble opinion, predators. That's what's happening. They're being encouraged. Here's the gun, you go, you'll be fine cuz you're a young offender. And it's terrifying businesses, it's terrifying residents. I have one um 75-year-old lady who's had her door kicked in twice by young people. Now she has a giant iron bar bar across her door. So, neighborhoods are being terrified by these groups up through the the um uh Rymal Road area, right near Saltfleet High School, Bishop Ryan High All of that area is experiencing this. And so, I understand what we're trying to do. I'm not seeing an impact in my ward. Can I hear from the acting deputy chief? >> Absolutely. So, a a couple of things. >> already at 15 minutes, so >> Sorry. >> Please, please, please, Deputy Chief. >> Yeah, um sorry, just a in response, so you mentioned kids being targeted by uh organized crime groups, and so we have seen and experienced that here in Hamilton. Um some of the organized retail theft that you had mentioned. Um so, our investigative Services division under Superintendent Schulenberg's leadership, they have been working and partnering with other police services in different jurisdictions and had have advanced many criminal investigations, identifying offenders, holding them accountable for people um the organizers, not just the youth that are involved in that. But also holding some of the youth accountable for their involvement in that. Um I know several communities, specifically up north, are seeing um young persons being brought up to northern communities to traffic in in in controlled substances. So, they're seeing that as well. Um the organized criminal theft rings that you're seeing, in each of our divisions, we have criminal investigative divisions with our youth crime team that have been working together on that to address those sorts of behaviors. What you're describing are complex social issues that our span far- farther than just criminal involvement. You What I heard you say, and my wife works in education as well, they used to give out lunch um supports and and meals to kids in the school. And now they hand them out on Friday evenings at the end of school so that the kids in the families have foods throughout the weekend. And everything that you described as supports to the families is actually just speaking to what we talked about here at the at the SALT tables that families and people in our community are struggling greater. And you don't see that the the youth crime issue identified in the plan. We all recognize that as well, and that's why this was brought forward as an an addendum to the plan through through the SALT table through the issue identification alert process. So, the same process that exists for anyone in our community to bring an issue forward to to a member of the salt table that's not already included in the plan. We recognize that as a gap as well. Um so that's why it's there and uh we've already had our second or third meeting bringing people together on that so that you will see it hopefully in the plan. And much to the counselor's point is what does success look like? I want to if we can't fail at this plan then it's not a very good plan. So I I would like some and that's where Dan's uh leadership coming in with his dashboard. We will have stats there that are going to show our starting point now and hopefully what you can see in in the near future is a reduction in that. People hopefully feeling safer in our communities. Family less families needing it. We heard a presentation just almost an hour ago talking about the need for increased social assistance rates, things like that. Inflation's gone up almost 24% in the in the last 5 years. Those rates have not increased the same. That has an impact on families in the city. And so trust that uh sir that our organization is working uh collaboratively on those cases that span outside of Hamilton jurisdiction to address the criminal behavior where organized crime is involved. We're absolutely doing that. We have the benefit we have some education leader superintendent uh Tony Kovac is here uh amongst others but we're having conversations about what a reimagined school resource officer program would look like in our communities well. To find ways to build and support youth in our community. I don't have the research in front of me but one of the things I hear often from some of the the specialists around the table is that it just takes one caring adult to support a youth to kind of change the behavior of them. And so whether that's through education or a boss or a volunteer opportunity or what have you, it's part of the story. Um so, I hope I hope that addresses some of your concerns, sir, but there's many good programs in the community that are focused on youth engagement and prevention, upstream supporting families. That's where our effort needs to be focused in part while at the same time addressing the criminal behavior that we're seeing in front of us. We can't It It's not one or the other. Just like open drug use that we're seeing in our community, public health is one approach, and I have my colleague here beside me, and we we talk about it often. Enforcement is a component of that as well that's needed in the two together. So, I hope that helps, and I'm happy to answer any more questions if I can. >> Thank you, Deputy Chief. >> GM Ater. >> Okay. Through the chair, just very quickly, Councillor, I think the feedback I'm hearing is that we need to make this a little bit more granular down to a ward level specific about some of the challenges and some of the options and supports that may be available for families. >> Thank you, GM. >> I'll wrap it up real quick, Chair. I've come forward with church groups how how wanting to set up youth programs to keep the kids off the streets after school. We haven't been able to get funding for those groups. I don't know why, but we don't have the services in the ward. And it's scares me when I see on the other side of the coin so much effort to entice young people into crime because it makes profit for the person who is the perpetrator, the predator. So, I'll leave it at that. I'll work with the team outline again, and we'll go from there. >> Okay. Back to you. >> Thank you. I apologize for taking so long, but that was a really important issue that we were dealing with, and and it's right across the city, and it needs to be discussed openly. >> [sighs and gasps] >> Uh so now we're moving to I need a mover and a seconder to approve the report and receive the report. Moved by Councillor Wang, seconded by Councillor um Alex Wilson. All those in favor, please show of hands. Carried. Item 8.1, Ontario Works student placement agreements. I'd like to call upon student uh Stewart Boomer, Director Ontario Works, to provide the committee with an overview of this report. >> Thank you, Chair Clark. Uh and and to committee, I'll keep it rather short. This is I would characterize as more of a house housekeeping report uh coming at the direction from legal services to provide me with the authority as local director and administrator to enter into student agreements placement agreements. >> Moved by Councillor Jackson, seconded by Councillor Alex Wilson. Any questions? Seeing none, this is an actual electronic vote. You know, we [clears throat and snorts] have to push the button for that one. Thank you, Director. I'm on my third electronic vote. >> [clears throat] >> Fourth. Yep, it keeps coming up. So it's carried unanimously. So if we can make that notation, please. Thank you. 4-0. Um we just did that one donation of declared surplus fire apparatus. Chief Dave Cunliffe to present the committee with an overview. I think we've done these many times in the past. Chief? >> Chair, I'm happy to move it. >> Move it. Thank you. >> Happy to second. >> Councilor Wang, thank you. We love you, Chief, but we're cutting you off. There you go. >> Thanks so much. I just want to say thanks so much for this. I think uh something I opened my eyes as we talk about the climate crisis is the impacts of forest fires and wildfires on First Nations communities. >> [sighs] >> We've just talked about um how destabilizing fires can be today when someone's evacuating and that and I think just having a friend who lives in a First Nations community, friends who their friends who've been fire workers seeing the first hand impact when wildfire season comes and there's not enough equipment when people are getting injured on the job because this is incredibly dangerous fire fighting at a very low pay. Um just really, really supportive of not, you know, trying to get the 15K on the open market for a used that and finding ways to support other communities across Ontario. I think this really speaks to the commitment >> [gasps] >> of our organization, but just appreciating that this is an area of huge need, not just in Ontario, but nationwide and appreciating this donation. Thank you. Thank you, Councilor. We'll have the electronic vote. It's carried unanimously. Uh 9.1 we did. 9.2 the Pat Quinn Parkdale sound system replacement Ward 4. Councillor Tammy Wang, please. >> Thank you. Moved by myself, seconded by Councillor Alex Wilson. The intention here is that Pat Quinn Parkdale Arena has had some really, really, really old and super terrible sounding equipment. Sorry, Director Seboar, but it's true. Um, so what we're asking um in the therefore be it resolved that the recreation division staff be authorized and directed to undertake a replacement of the Pat Quinn Parkdale Arena sound system and create a more enjoyable user experience. And that this will be um coming out of the Ward 4 capital reinvestment reserve 3302609400 at an upset limit not to exceed $6,000 and that all of the requisite people authorized and directed and will execute on this. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any questions on the item? Seeing none, we'll call the vote, please. For the record, my eScribe has worked terribly today. It's very, very slow on even opening files. I'm assuming that's unanimous. Thank you very much. Uh, the notice of motion >> It's staying as is. >> will stay in notice of motion. Urgent safety upgrades for King's Forest Golf Course for 2026 golf season. So, this will give us an opportunity to get the information for the June meeting, correct? Thank you very much. Are there any other notices of motion? Seeing none, um let's close the meeting at that point. Thank you for staying and keeping warm through the meeting. Very much appreciated. Have a great evening. >> Thank you, Chair.