Sound check. 1 2 3. Sound check. 1 2 3. the city of Hamilton's accessibility committee for person with disabilities committee uh meeting uh June 9th, 2026. Uh I will now commence a roll call. Please indicate your presence when I call your name. Cara Hernold >> here. Thank you. Levi Janosi, I saw him, but we'll see if he comes back. Uh, Leaf Johansson >> here. >> Thank you. Hargan Carr >> here. >> Thank you. Paula Kilburn >> here. >> Thank you. >> Uh, Jake Maurice. Jake is here. Oh, yeah. I see Jake. Mark McNeel. >> It's gonna work now. >> I don't see Mark. Tim Nolan. Tim Nolan. >> Uh, can you hear me? >> I can hear you. >> Okay. Yeah, Kim and I are both here. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh Robert Westbrook here. >> Thank you, Robert. Uh councelor Mark Tatterson. >> No. And James Kemp, I'm here. Uh one more call for Levi. Oh, Levi is here. Good. Thank you, Levi. >> There you go. Finally. Perfect. Thank you very much. Okay, would the staff who are present please introduce themselves with their name and position beginning with Carrie. >> Carrie Macintosh, legislative coordinator. >> Thank you. >> Demi Blerson, legislative assistant. >> Thank you. >> Jeff Ellis, manager of fleet maintenance for HSR. Thank you. >> Michelle Martin, manager of accessible transportation services with transit division. >> Thank you. Lauren Brace, senior project manager, community engagement. >> Thank you. I'll go with Sarah. >> H project manager of strategy planning with transit. >> Thank you. And Nick, >> Nick, manager of transit strategic planning with HSR. >> Thank you. Are there any other staff present? I am hearing none. Uh, I will call this meeting to order. As we have quum present to today's meeting, I would like to call this meeting the accessibility committee to person disabilities to order as well a reminder that all electronic devices are to be switched to a non-audible function during committee meetings. Welcome councelor Tatis. Uh, two ceremonial activities. LC Mintosh will now read the Hamilton land acknowledgement. >> The city of Hamilton is situated upon the traditional territories of the Erie, Nutro, Hiron, Wenda, Haroni, and Missagas. This land is covered with the dish with wind spoon womb belt covenant which was an agreement between the hotani and anesnabat to share and care for the resources around the great lakes. We further acknowledge that this land is covered by the between the lakes purchase 1792 between the crown and the missagas of the first credit nation. Today, the city of Hamilton is home to many indigenous people from across Turtle Island, North America. And we recognize that we must do more to learn about the rich history of this land so that we can better understand our roles as residents, neighbors, partners, and caretakers. >> Thank you very much, Chelsea Macintosh. U three, approval of agenda. Uh may I please have a mover and a seconder to approve the agenda as presented? >> I'll move. Moved by Levi, seconded by Cara. Thank you. Are there any amendments to the agenda? >> Yes, Mr. Chair. There are two amendments to the agenda. Um item 7 8 will be withdrawn and 7.8F 8F will be amended to summary of accessible transportation services notes from the transportation working group working group meeting of May 22nd 2026. >> Thank you very much. Um are there uh any uh opposed to approving the agenda as amended? I'm hearing none. Uh then uh that motion is carried. Thank you very much. Uh declarations of interest. Are there any declarations of interest? I am hearing none. So I will move on. Uh adoption of minutes of the previous meeting. Uh we have two uh 5.1 April 7th, 2026 and 5.2 May 12, 2026. No quorum minutes. May I please have a mover and a second to adopt the April 7, 2022 uh minutes and receive the minutes of May 12, 2022. >> I move. >> Thank you, Paula. Seconded by Seconded by Levi. Thank you. Sorry, I can't see everybody's hand. So, if you have your hand, my screen is a little limited. I apologize. Um, is there any discussion on the minutes? I'm seeing none. Uh then can we uh vote uh is there anybody opposed to uh adopting and receiving the minutes? No. That's carried. Thank you. Uh seven uh items for information. In the interest of time, we are going to hear all of the items for information 7.1 to 7.7 and then receive them together at the end. 7.1 expanding my ride pathway to an integrated transit a pilot project. Oh, this has been moved to 7.6. So, we're just going to do we do this now or carry on? >> Carry on. Okay. Uh, next up then is built environment working group. I will have to relinquish the chair, please. >> I have the chair, sir. >> Thank you very much. Um, so let's first start off. March 3rd, uh we met with Christina Gisesler, uh discussing BAS and desire to plan events and make them more accessible. Um requested to work on a event guide for the seat team and uh Christina's uh BIA groups. Um we will present to the BAS in the future on making um not just events accessible but their um entryway and um improve accessibility of a whole of the the business improvement areas. Um we discussed uh snow removal policies and procedures with the HSR to talk about HSR's part of uh snow removal and what they direct the roads department to do and how they respond to complaints. Uh and then we discussed the capital builds project list with Jessica and um gave her a short list uh for facilities to bring to us in the future and discuss uh capital builds projects. So that was uh March. >> Thank you. >> I don't have an agenda in front of me. I'm sorry, Jane. >> That's okay. Um the next up would be May 5th. Uh May 5th, we um actually were onboarding some new volunteers at this event or this uh meeting. Uh we um gave them brief introductions of the work of the built environment working group and ran them through some of the outstanding business list. Uh and then we went into a long discussion on uh button plates or truncated domes as is a common topic of late and uh allowed them a chance to um understand the work that we do by discussing this issue and I believe uh we discussed a possible activity in the future you know motions to delegate motion to provide a correspondence uh writing editorial talking to reporters uh public awareness, getting out social media campaign and whatnot. Um and discuss the possibility of setting those up. And that was it for May 5th. >> Thank you. >> Next, >> the last one is April 20th. Uh sorry, these are out of order. Uh this one uh was Tim Nolan, myself, Brian Hollingworth, Susan Jacob, Jessica Bowen. We discussed in detail the button plates, truncated dome, tactile indicators. Uh we talked about um compliance issues as opposed to accessibility. Uh we discussed um setting up sample plates um at uh locations that are accessible to as many people as possible and communicating with uh stakeholders or so equity deserving groups. Um and we also discussed uh raised crosswalks uh what are they called? um bolards and whatnot to help uh track guide traffic across intersections as well um on top of the current accessibility guidelines. Uh and yeah, that was it. Oh, sorry. No, we did cover one more thing was the importance of um unifying uh the Main Street corridor with the LRT uh plan and doing the same thing and mirroring what they're doing uh at that level. Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, >> I think that's it. >> Thank you, James. Sorry. >> Next, I'd say I don't have an agenda. I wasn't going to be here, but anyway. Well, I thank you for coming. Um, and the next up is housing working group, and there is not a verbal update. I unfortunately had to cancel this month's uh housing working group meeting for health reasons. >> Okay. Okay. Do we have outreach next? >> Yep, we do have outreach next. Um, the March 17th meeting notes, uh, we did a we discussed the working group, uh, recruitment drive. Um we uh discussed the engaging with care reports um but didn't get a chance to review it at that meeting. We reviewed it at a future meeting. Um we did some fair and awards planning and discussed the accessibility event at Mohawk at that time and that was it. >> Thank you sir. >> Um April 21st, 2026. Um, sorry, I'm just refreshing myself with this one. Uh, it was a very brief meeting from what I can see. There isn't much from the meeting notes. Uh, that's because this is not a I apologize. This is a this is a mistake. >> This this actually looks like an agenda and not a meeting note. So, I I apologize. This is why I'm confused. If you forward the meeting notes, I will add them to the next agenda. >> At the next agenda. Okay. So, sorry everybody. We'll have we'll have April 21st at the next agenda. I apologize. >> It's okay, James. We all made a mistake. >> And I believe that's it for outreach. >> Thank you. >> Um, >> next up is transportation. And I'm going to apologize because I'm not prepared as I didn't think I was going to be here. Um, briefly, uh, Michelle did Q1 of the, um, performance review, I believe. And we also did, what else did we do? the um same presentation I think as you're gonna do today, right, Michelle? >> Okay. Can I can I back up and just take back the chair Paul? >> Yes, sir. Oh, yes. Sorry. I didn't give you back the chair, didn't I? >> That's okay. That's okay. So, let me help let me help you out here. 7.8 transportation working group update. Uh we have a variety of things on uh that were coming from the past. So we have a summary of accessible transportation services notes from the ATS policy review working group meeting and uh I will allow people to read it for themselves. I don't think that you would remember the details unless you do. >> No. >> Okay. And we also be a summary of accessible transportation services notes from the transportation working group meeting April 28th, 2026. No. And uh we have accessible transportation services Q1206 performance report. Actually, uh, this is with Michelle Martin, manager of accessible transportation services, will provide the presentation. >> Well, I wasn't planning to provide the presentation. >> No, we don't. We don't. We're just receiving this, right? >> Yeah, we're just receiving. Yeah, but I'm I'm happy to answer questions about it or any slides you like. >> Excellent. Uh, okay. So, uh, if anybody's reviewed the ATS services Q1206 performance report and has any questions or would like to discuss anything on it, um, please raise your hand now. Sorry to put anybody on the spot. Um, seeing none. Okay. Then, uh, we will move on from that. Thank you, Michelle. Uh, and we've removed the transportation working group attendee report, um, for a future date because, um, two of the people that attended uh, still haven't um, had it their their comments added to this document. So, we'll add this and then and then get it back to everybody. Uh, and James, >> yes, go ahead, Tim. >> Yeah, sorry. I was I couldn't figure out how to unmute the computer. Somehow it got muted, so it took me a while to unmute. I did have a couple of questions related to a couple of other reports, if I may. >> Um, the built environment working group, can you tell me who was present at the various meetings? I know you talked about the one where Susan Jacobs and Brian Haulingworth were present, but I don't think it was announced who was present at the other two meetings. Can you >> advice? >> First one was James Kemp and Haren Carr and the next one is um >> that was probably the May 5th meeting. Uh May 5th was uh Mark McNeel, uh James Kemp, and then we also had one, two, one, two, three, four volunteers. >> Okay. And then the last one was you and I. >> Okay. So um yeah. Um can we at some point uh during today's meeting talk about uh the kind of work that's being undertaken at working groups when there is really only two people present. Um and any decisions that arise from those groups. Um the next question uh the housing um if you don't mind my asking can you go back and uh uh refresh what was discussed at housing like the date of the meeting and what was discussed if you don't mind because I didn't meet we didn't meet housing this month. >> Okay. Was there a meeting in April or uh March or April around housing? >> I would have to check my records. I'm sorry, Tim. >> Okay. >> Um Okay. Uh with regard to housing then apparently there was a staff report that went to GIC related to housing and uh I presume it's city housing Hamilton is going to be adopting uh principles of of accessibility in in uh uh and there's been some a number of meetings or at least one meeting that you've been participating in with staff around the adoption of of principles of universal accessibility in housing. Uh I don't believe that information has come to committee unless I'm mistaken. >> Can you elaborate on that? >> Yes, I can. Tim, um we discussed uh >> James, I'll take the chair. Sorry. >> Oh, sorry. Yes, you should take the chair for this. >> Thank you. Uh we discussed this uh actually last year uh and the year before with the uh housing office of the housing secretariat and housing services division. um and uh they put forward a report on universal accessibility that I believe went through um sometime in 2025 towards mid towards the end. I'm not sure exactly when if you're speaking about the uh one that we initially put in four years ago um that was that was finally discussed. Yes. Well, actually, it's my understanding that it was put in in 2020, and there was a report that just went to GIC in in May, like a week, two weeks ago. >> I I have not seen that report. I know that it went before GIC uh a very long time ago. I didn't know that it came back up for discussion. >> Okay. So it it it made reference to you meeting with staff around accessibility. Can I ask has that been everybody as part of the housing working group meeting with staff or was that you individually? >> That was them coming to the housing working group. We have meeting notes of housing services and the housing secretariat coming and speaking with HWG. >> Okay. Because it doesn't say that in the report. The report only makes reference to meeting just with you with a small handful of staff. >> I was not in a singular meeting on that subject. No. >> Okay. So, you don't know anything about this report that went to GIC approximately May 24th, I think. >> Tim, my health has been very poor. I have not been paying attention to escribe as well as I usually do. Okay. All right. Thank you so much. >> Thank you, Tim. Anybody else have any questions for James while we're on this subject? >> No. Okay, James, you can have the chair back. Sir, >> thank you very much. Um, so, uh, next we have a summary of accessible transportation services notes from the ATS policy review working group meeting May 22nd, which is Pardon me. Hang on a second. I apologize everybody. Let me clarify something. Just want to double check the meeting notes. >> Um, that was uh >> Oh my goodness. >> I think there was we tried to fix something and I think we fixed the wrong one. That's that's what I'm just double checking. I can't I can't seem to find it. >> Uh, we we I think we fixed the wrong one. Uh yes, we have the May 22nd, 2026, which was an ATS policy review meeting. And I believe the one that I meant to fix was the May 26th one, which was a Tuesday. I believe it's May 26 or Tuesday. >> TWWG then. >> Yes. So, I apologize. We corrected the wrong one. It should have been G that was corrected. >> Oh, sorry. I promise I will be more um um um >> prepared next time. And I will again apologize to Michelle because it's not you know I do apologize Michelle >> through the chair. Um it's easily fixed and um I can send all the original records to Carrie if that helps. >> Perfect. Thank you very much. Uh okay and I believe then we have G the summary of accessible transportation services notes from the TWWG uh working group meeting May 26, 2026. I do apologize for the confusion on that. And then that's it. Okay. Okay. Thank you, James. >> Do you have anything to add to that or to hand it off to Tim that might want to comment on it? >> Um, if Tim wants to comment on it, he may. Um, as I say, I really am not prepared for this today and I don't know whether Tim is if everybody wants to read the notes and if they have any questions, just email me or Michelle and we'll clarify whatever you want to know. Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Paula. >> Thank you. >> Uh, okay. And next up then we have 7.7 open spaces and parklands working group update. Tim, >> I'll give you a minute. Tim >> Tim, you're there. You go. >> Can you hear me? >> Yep. >> Okay. It's It's I don't know how the computer just keeps muting itself, but it does somehow. And so, uh, um, outdoor spaces, uh, yeah, uh, everything is in the notes. Uh, there was one staff comment to the notes. They wanted to correct the content of the notes. Uh, I have to defer to, uh, Carrie Macintosh on what's the proper procedure for that. We can make an amendment on the floor, Tim. >> Okay. Uh I I presume Carrie, you might have copy of what uh the staff proposed as being changed on those notes. >> Um I do. Tim, >> do you mind just I don't have in in front of me. >> Oh, okay. Are you able to access it? Because I for me to do it, I'm going to have to mute myself. go and find a comment and then share it. So, uh, it'll take me a few minutes. >> Just give me a minute. Tim, I can't find it right now. Can we defer this until the next meeting? >> Sure, we could potentially defer that piece to the next meeting if that's acceptable. >> I'll need someone to move that. It can't be someone who's already spoken to it. >> I will. Have I said anything about it? >> Kim says she's prepared to move it. >> Yeah, sure. Kim >> prefer it. >> Moved by Kim, seconded by councelor Tatterison, I believe. >> Okay. >> Is there anybody opposed to that? >> No. Okay. >> Okay. So just for clarification that's just with regard to that grant application process. Correct. >> Shall I is the whole report deferred or just >> we're just Yeah, we're deferring the whole report until we can figure out what the amendment would be. >> Okay. All right. Sounds good. >> Okay. Thanks, Tim. Um All right. Uh so 7.8 eight, we are moving on to vehicle procurement for HSR on demand transit. >> Oh, sorry, pardon me. Uh, before we get into this, uh, Nicholas Shaloo has got his hand up and I apologize if I mangled your last name. >> All good. You actually got it correct. Um, I just wanted to double check. I I know we had moved down the on demand report into the working group meetings and I just didn't want to miss that opportunity for questions. >> You are correct Nicholas. Uh we did miss that um on the move part. Uh so we will uh before we get into 7.8 we should do 7.6. Correct. Correct. Okay. So yes um so are you do you have a presentation or are you just ask answering questions on the my ride? Uh this is answering questions on the presentation that was provided to the working group. >> Uh excellent. Would you be able to give the rest of the ACP members a very brief overview? Am I right or as long as you need I guess to >> um I can give a quick summary of what we presented. I I don't have the presentation at hand to reshare it. Um the main message we were looking to communicate is that through HSR next our growth plan we are adding ondemand transit service starting with Stony Creek and Mount Hope as part of that roll out and I'm losing my light in the new building. Sorry. Um as part of that roll out we are offering a voluntary program to encourage folks to try out this service um among our customers with disabilities in the zone. It is a service that is stop to stop, not doortodoor. So, it does require folks be able to reach that stop. Um, however, if people are willing and able, we're encouraging that use. We are going to be bringing a survey um function alongside that to gather information and feedback on how those trips work and are partnering with McMaster to complete focus groups this summer to prep for that. Our goal is that as these ondemand zones roll out over the next sevenish years, uh we would develop a wholesome integrated transit pilot with the findings from that voluntary ride program. I am not g giving the due courtesy that the full presentation gives that Sarah gave last time. It was an excellent presentation, but that is the quick and dirty. >> Thank you very much, Nicholas. Uh, does anybody have any questions on the um No, I believe we have Cara already, so I'll hand the floor over to Cara. >> Yeah, thanks. Um, this looks really cool. Um, is there a cost difference for the on demand my ride than a regular bus ride? >> No, there is not. So, our on demand my ride service is the same fair as our conventional. Um, in both these zones, it is replacing TransC service, which does currently have a premium. So, there will actually be a savings for any customer who has currently been using Transcab and would now be able to use my ride. >> And then I guess like that that's great. Like, thank you for that. Um, I'm looking at kind of the the map of the zones throughout the HSR area and the my ride um would be like limited to each of those zones, right? Like let's say I was in the purple Stony Creek zone like my on demand ride is only on that that bus route in that zone. Correct. >> Yes. I will pass it to Sarah Heg just to give a little bit more of a description of how that travel works because it was a big focus of discussion in the working group. >> Yes. So as Nick said through the uh my ride program it is stop to stop travel within the zone. There are connections that can be made to the con accessible conventional system that you could use to travel outside of the zone and potentially to another zone. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks very much, Cara. Any other questions for Nicholas or Sarah? >> I had a quick question. James >> can see my hand. Um yeah, just wondering, this is a bit of a dumb question, but um just curious, for example, in New York region, they have a similar kind of ondemand service, but it's only servicing areas that are not serviced by traditional kind of YRT buses. Is this the same idea that we're having for this on demand service, or is this more so in conjunction to the buses? Like I'm just curious about what would be the use case for this versus using uh public transit buses. Yeah. So this is very similar to that. This is basically um we're using on demand to make sure we are meeting our coverage standards. So so on demand zones are in areas where we don't have uh great coverage of conventional transit and so it's being filled in with uh on demand. So you can use on demand to travel within the zone, but they all also do offer connections to the fixed route to then extend your journey. So it's really just a feed into the conventional network. Um, and they can be used as a a starter case for future conventional routes in those areas. >> Perfect. And then just as a quick followup, so I I think it was mentioned that it is stop to stop um and not home to the stop. So I'm just curious if someone is located at like is there a certain distance that everyone in the area should be located from a stop? Like I'm just wondering if it how accessible it will be for people not on the stop line. So we use the roughly the same standards as our conventional service. So we aim for a 400 meter um walkable distance. Um so that's generally how how far apart the stops are spaced. Um the the guidelines are um 90% of residents would be within 400 meters and then 95% would be within 800 meters. >> Sounds good. And when when is this uh starting up again? Uh I think you mentioned there's a pilot that will be starting in Stony Creek and Mount Hope. >> Yeah. So it it's all part of HSR next the whole growth plan and it's starting in September like fall fall board of 2027 and so over the sevenish year growth plan. Uh we will be adding five on demand zones but two um Stony Creek and Mount Hope are being um added in the first year so in 2027. >> I will just quickly step in to note that that is subject to budget approvals. This is uh forming part of our recommendation for service changes in 2027. Should it be approved, it would be going in for fall 2027. >> And then the last uh piece that I was just curious about, I think you briefly covered this as well, but just wondering what the vehicles look like in terms of accessibility standards. Are these vehicles for one person? Are there different like vehicles for people to be able to access if they have different accessibility needs? And how is that in indicated? So the the vehicle uh procurement is really outside of our scope that is done through our like fleet departments and I believe there is a separate uh presentation on that. Right now our current zone in water is uses 30foot um buses. Um again there will be a presentation I believe later in this meeting that will speak to future um future procurement of buses for this service. >> Perfect. Thank you so much. Okay, James, I have a question. >> Um, okay. I've got Paula up first and then I'll get I'll get right to you, Kim. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Paula. >> Um, the 800 meters from home to a stop. How are those people going to get to that stop? If I mean if if you're uh adults passenger and you want to do this then you you're not supposed to be able to walk that far. So how is that going to work? >> So the the the service right now is designed not as a paratransit service. It is designed as a on demand conventional service. Um like I said we'd be aim to have it more within the 400 meter range. Um once this program which is the full roll out of HSR next as Nick was saying it will inform a future integrated network which would have different standards and different requirements that would be more accessible but this one is just building on a current conventional program. And just to reiterate comment >> from the um the previous presentation um even if I mean we don't look at the eligibility requirements for for ATS at all even if you know your re the eligibility requirement is that you can't get to a stop that will not using this program will not exclude you from being able to still use ATS or darts. >> Yeah I I realize that. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Paula. Uh Kim, >> sorry, Kim, you're muted. >> Can Kim ask? >> Yep, please go ahead. Okay. Um uh can it be guaranteed in inclement weather like ice and snow that the the 400 meters we need to travel will be clear of snow because usually the city of Hamilton doesn't clear snow very well and it's hard to get through if we have problems walking. >> Sorry my internet cut out and I missed that. So Nick, if you're able to step in, I appreciate. >> Of course. >> The question is Okay, go ahead. >> Sorry. You want to ask it again? >> Sure. Um I'm just wondering if um we can guarantee that the city of Hamilton will clear the snow and ice for us to travel the amount of distance we have to go to meet the on demand bus. >> I can still answer this one. Um, so I will just note in both of these areas, uh, a lot of the roads actually don't have sidewalks as well. And this is one of the items we discussed in the working group. Um, as we're locating stops and we will have consultation this summer in both communities to talk about where stops should go. We are able to build in stop pads in some cases. In other places, we'll be able to tie into sidewalks. But in many locations, there will still not be a full uh sidewalk connection. So from a snow clearing perspective, there's not even necessarily going to be a sidewalk to clear. Um I think it's important to note this is a voluntary program, so particularly where conditions don't allow. Um it might not be the best fit to voluntarily choose to use it at that time. Um, I will note though that as we're installing new stops and bringing in new stop pads, those are cleared as a priority as a transit service. So, I do think as this service grows, there will be more accessibility coming into these neighborhoods. But I acknowledge that at startup, it will not be a fully accessible network from end to end. And that's in part why it's voluntary. >> Okay. So, guess we'll find out. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh Leaf, >> hi. Uh just a quick question about the uh the Stony Creek implementation of this. So would it be it would be both the upper and lower Stony Creek that be considered? And the reason why I'm asking is I'm just wondering about the 800 meter distance and how that can be evenly measured when it comes to some of the implementation of the new suburbs in the upper Stony Creek area. >> Great question. So, this does only apply to lower Stony Creek. Um it basically replaces the current transc area that uh is currently operating. So it expands the the width of Stony Creek but mostly um kind of buffering the QEDW. And then it does have some service kind of wrap around the east and along Highway 8, but it's not the entire U municipality of Stony Creek. we're only able to provide service within the transit urban area and that um is constrained. >> I just want to note too because I think there's a few different numbers being used um for the service standards that Sarah referred to. Um we do have a minimum target where we ensure as many people are as possible are within 400 meters of our service. For ondemand and local service, the actual target is much lower. We aim for it to be about a 200 to 250 meter walk to the stop, walk, roll, cycle, whichever. Um, so it is much closer to people's homes than than a 400 or 800 meter um line. It just um I just wanted to note that because I it is going to be closer to home. It doesn't mean there isn't a barrier to reach it. It still requires a person to reach the stop. Um but stops are much closer than may be expected. All right. Thank you. That addresses my question. Thank you. Are there any other questions or concerns? >> Seeing none, Paula, can you take the chair for a minute? >> Yes, sir. I take the chair. >> Thank you. I just had one brief question on something you just mentioned. Uh bus stop pads. Um now in my experience some of these uh bus stop pads that have been installed at the outskirts um are actually not accessible. They don't have a curb cut connecting uh um have we ensured that all bus pads that are in place are actually connected to a curb cut so you can access the road surface. Uh what I can say uh through the chair for the new pads being installed, we would make sure they have a curb cut down to reach the road because they aren't able to connect into any sidewalk infrastructure. I think you had asked as part of that question if we knew about existing pads. I would have to refer to my scheduling and infrastructure colleagues, but I could get that back to you as well. >> They do maintain a record of how many are accessible currently. I appreciate that, Nicholas, because experientially I uh last year I discovered um the bus stop across from where was it? Carmen's. Carmen's was was one of the older pads that actually had no access and suddenly I couldn't get up to the bus stop. So I was just worried that some of these pads might be inaccessible. Thank you. >> The intent is fully as the new pads are in that it would connect down to the street. Um we do have budget to install new pads as stops are coming in. So that will be part of the consultation this summer. Thank you very much. And for the record that that stuff has been fixed, so I'm just not Yeah. Uh, thank you very much. I'll take the chair back. >> You may have the chair. >> Thank you. So, are there any other questions before we move on? >> I'm seeing none. Then I want to thank you Nicholas and and Sarah for presenting uh my ride. Uh, next up we have a 7.8 vehicle procurement for HSR on demand transits. Uh Jeff Ellis, HSR fleet maintenance manager will provide the presentation. Please Jeff. >> Uh through the chair. I'm just going to get this rolling. Um Okay. So uh I was asked to come and uh give just a brief uh presentation on on the vehicles that we'll be pro procuring for the on demand transit. Uh so I put a little slideshow together just to review it. So um so the vehicles that we are pro procuring are going to be the uh the promaster model. Um Darts Darts is running those uh those units right now. Uh so we'll be getting them through Creative Carriage. Um we we did pick these ones due to the some some of the accessibility um that they have. So the the low floor layout um and and the ramps uh being being from maintenance uh I know that a lot of our power ramps we have a lot of problems with. So these ones are made u as a manual ramp so it's a lot easier for the driver just to pull them out and put them away. A lot less moving parts. So hopefully that would uh keep keep up with maintenance uh that way. and um this the size of them right now because this is a kind of a pilot we're running um we wanted to see what kind of vehicle we could get that um would be able to go through the streets uh safely and and be efficient with fuel and such. So that that's kind of why we ended up leaning towards uh the ProMaster and and also it it has been a it's a vehicle that multiple different uh transit agencies are using as well as Darts is running them currently right now. So, uh, as far as the accessibility and capacity, uh, so it's got an in flooror side ramp. The the the vehicle we're looking at, I believe Darts is running the CS2 and, uh, that's with the rear ramp and a side ramp. Uh, at HSR, we're not we're going to go away from using the rear ramp. We're not going to speck it with the rear ramp. We're just going to have a side ramp just for safety. Uh, we're not going to have people um, boarding and a lighting from the rear uh, just because, uh, being on the street. Um, so, uh, we got lots of flexible configurations. Uh, the the one we have a three- wheelchair option, but, uh, the one that we're going to be going with is, uh, the two wheelchair setup that that we have right now. And, uh, as far as the securements go, they are the Q strain, uh, system, and we did have that system in our old RBOX that we had. So, uh, as far as training with the operators, that that should go pretty smooth. uh something they'll be familiar with. Uh as far as some of the interior features go, um I believe the climate control is a big thing. I I think uh being comfortable in in in the vehicle is is a is a big uh is is very important. I know that we had a lot of issues with the Novas when we first got them on the road with them being very hot. So, I do know that uh climate control is very important, not just for the passengers, but for the driver. So, uh definitely this this unit is is good for that. Um as far as uh stansions and grab bars go, everything is very high viz and uh uh laid out very well. Um easy easy easy use. And um just integrated safety. I I definitely uh for the operator and and also the public backup cameras. Uh our our buses right now don't have backup cameras. So to be able to have a unit that has that is going to make it a lot safer for operation. Um definitely coming with the reverse uh warning is is going to be huge. And um uh LED lighting. I think that's a new thing. Um it's fairly new for vehicles, but uh this one's coming with LED lighting. So a lot brighter, a lot more longevity when it comes to those lighting. Uh so again uh this is not so much I I I think this is more for maintenance but uh they do come pre-wired for uh camera and fairbox. Uh these buses will these these uh micro buses will come with uh a camera system and a fair box just like our our our conventional buses uh just for safety uh as well as uh for fair. Um uh again I I mentioned the Q strains. So definitely uh we want every everybody to be secure when when they're in this vehicle. Uh so um again we we are familiar with this system and so I think the training for our operators should uh should come uh pretty easy. Um and I I just want to also add that uh they this these vehicles meet all of the safety standards that we would have to meet uh in Canada and Ontario. Uh so some of the big dimensions I guess the ramp width is a 34 inch ramp so it's it's fairly wide. Um so the 34 inch uh entrance way is um is for um for wheelchair accessibility. Um but the big thing is the uh clearance as soon as you get in um there's enough clearance for the operator as well as the chair to move in a circle. So, if you had to move around to back up and and and get off, that would be very accessible. Uh low stepin height. Uh we went we were able to go to the uh the factory and and see some of these being built. And u it's actually really neat what they do. They take actually cut the whole floor out of these vans and lower the floor. So, it's it's uh it's a lot easier to step into the vehicle and it it's takes away any steps or or u any uh lips or edges. So everything is uh is one flat space. Um interior uh headroom 80 in so definitely easy to walk around inside the back of it. And um again uh I talked about the the the the ability to move around u the lower tub and that's where I was mentioning about them cutting the floor out and lowering it. Um you get a 61 in uh clearance when you're when you're spinning around. Um and then uh vehicle uh body footprint. So it's 83 in long. So, it's it's it's a fairly short footprint and it it will uh it'll navigate uh the streets and everything we need without with ease. And um I just wanted to include uh a picture of it. Um I think everybody probably knows what vehicles uh Darts has been running. Um so this is very very similar and I think uh it will be something that customers will be used to using and riding in. Uh, and then that comes to >> pardon me. I just I just want to tell everybody that was an image of a ProMaster bus. >> Yes. Oh, sorry. I thought I included that. Yeah. Uh, yes, we are going to be using the Pro Promaster platform. >> Yeah. >> Um, any any questions for me with regards to the vehicle? >> I'm assuming there's going to be a good number of questions. So, >> James, I have a question or two if I may at some point. You can go first. >> I'm muted. Sorry, that was my bad. I was muted. Go ahead, Tim. >> Okay. Can you hear me now? >> I can hear you. >> Okay. I don't know what happens with the mute button, but anyway. Um okay so first question you you um the ramp is going to be manually deployed if I understood correctly >> through the chair uh you are correct the oper that that would be uh uh pulled out and stowed by the operator. >> Okay. So with keeping in mind that because not all of the stops in the uh in the uh uh the new program, the ride share program um is not going to have uh sidewalk or bus stops on pads. Uh that means that the ramp in order to be deployed manually would have to be relatively short in length otherwise it would be too heavy to manually deploy. Uh and if that's the case then when the vehicle gets to stops that don't have a bus stop pad or a sidewalk the ramp is going to be far too steep. Uh, excuse me. >> Has that been considered >> through the chair? So, uh, yes. Uh, so as far as weight goes, these are aluminum ramps, so they're very lightweight. Um, you can actually pull them out with just a couple fingers. Uh, we watched them at the, uh, again when we went to see them at the factory uh, being built. Um, yeah, you can't. I guess I'm having a hard time uh visualizing it because I'm thinking if there's a curb, you'll be able to pull the the ramp out onto the curb. If there wasn't a curb, you would you would just pull it out onto the ground. Now, I believe that um because of the lower uh footprint and and it and the floor being lowered, um that makes the the ease of the ramp a a lot like it makes it a lot easier to roll up and you wouldn't be able to only deploy it halfway. It it'll only be out or in. >> Yeah. But when when the vehicle when a vehicle arrives at passenger's destination or the stop, if there is no sidewalk and there is no bus pad, they're going to be deploying. >> They're going to be deploying to the road. Correct. >> Through the chair. Correct. And that that would be something operations would have to take a look at and the operator would have to find a spot to to safely um deploy the ramp. If I can >> because otherwise >> otherwise the steepness of the ramp would be too steep for somebody to actually uh uh a life like the ramp the ramp would be uh much steeper than at a very minimum a one in 12 slope. It's probably more like one in six if not even one and four. I can speak very quickly just to how we would implement the stops over time. Um so with the engagement we're planning for this summer that will help us identify which locations are going in which will include whether or not they have curbs and whether locations need curbs added through our landing pad program. We would also typically be working with operations as Jeff was mentioning uh to do some testing on the sites which would give us the chance to make sure that the ramps can deploy properly at the different locations. Um I know that's not directly answering the question of whether the ramp will be steep or shallow enough uh with or without a curb, but I can say at least from the myide expansion plan, we would be testing each stop as it goes. >> Okay? because that's going to be sorry go ahead >> sorry um just to comment on how it currently happens in the water >> Sarah we can't hear you >> sorry can't can't hear No. >> Can you hear me now? >> We can hear you. You can hear. Okay. Sorry about that. It worked earlier. Um, just speaking to how it currently happens in Waterown. Not all stops in Waterown are accessible either. And so if a stop is inaccessible, um the individual that needs the ramp deployed is to work with the driver to find the closest accessible location. So they just speak to the driver if they need to get off at a location that isn't accessible and together they just find the closest accessible spot to deploy the ramp. >> Okay. And that works for people uh so that they're not either boarding or or a lighting with a ramp that is far too steep. >> As far as I know, I haven't heard any concerns or complaints otherwise. >> Okay. What about when people request a ride share? um they have to go to the nearest uh bus stop. Can they request to be picked up somewhere other than the bus stop? >> Right now the service does not allow for that. Um it only allows you to use existing stop. So that is unfortunately the kind of deficit is that you'd have to get to an accessible stop but then getting off you could work with the driver to arrange another location but it's not really able to allow that on the boarding side. >> Okay. Can these can these issues be contained in the report to council? when you report to council with information about the new program and some of the limitations that might exist for passengers with disabilities as a result. >> Yes. >> Because the slope of the ramp is is a critical issue. >> Absolutely. >> Like an extremely critical issue. >> And so the fact that the fact that the ramp is going to be manually deployed as opposed to automated, which is understandable, we get that. But uh that means that you know for example on some of the uh articulated buses uh the ramps were uh double length so as to mitigate the slope for boarding and a and a lighting and uh given that the ramp is going to be manually operated and not not uh uh mechanically uh the ability to have a a ramp long enough to accommodate a passenger uh when boarding or lighting to a surface that is not on a sidewalk is potentially problematic. The second question is >> Thank you. Uh Tim, I'm going to have to >> One more question, please. >> I'm going to have to put hands back. We have a long list. Uh so we'll go through the first time speakers. I'll get get right back to you as soon as I can, Tim. Um, uh, next up is Leaf. >> All right. So, I do have a question regarding the safety of the of using the ProMaster. I'm also wondering if there could be implementation of a screen that notifies of a collision warning as one of the safety features that could be added onto it >> uh through through the speaker. That that will be something I I will have to take a look and and come back. But because it's a ProMaster and it's on a on like a conventional kind of um smaller vehicle, I'm maybe it might have those that early warning detection like most cars come with now. It's something I'd have to look into, though. >> All right. Uh thank you for answering my question. >> Thank you, Leaf. Uh next up is Jake and then Paula and then Tim for a second time. Yeah, I just have a quick question. Um, I know you mentioned that the wheelchair spots will have enough room for folks to um like turn and back up and stuff. Um, I was wondering if there's also going to be enough room for wheelchair users with service dogs. Um, I myself have a golden retriever service dog and I find on like the darts uh vehicles that there is often not enough space for both of us. Um, so yeah, I was just wondering if that's been considered >> uh through the speaker. I'm going to say these are just this these vehicles will be exactly pretty much the same as the darts vehicle. Uh I'm it'll probably be capacity as well if if there's capacity it we would be able to accommodate and I don't know what what we would do if if we couldn't but there's definitely a set amount of people that can be aboard the bus. So um we would have to see it's not it's not like a 40ft bus where we have lots of room >> and and through the chair I just want to add um we do have um Leia Ravensburg and and her researcher I think Tio is coming to the transportation working group this month to begin mapping out the focus group questions for ongoing feedback and evaluation not fe just not only feedback about ATS but also potential concerns s with integrated service which really means how things are looking on the on demand service early days for us right um and I think the other thing uh that it's important to remember is the inside has some configurability right and so um we can take your your feedback and concerns back um for Jeff and then um going back to um the question about uh ramps um I know that Uh the darts vehicles similarly um uh similar ramps ramp lengths on the side. They do deploy into uh areas where there is no curb. For example, if they're picking up um I think some of the smaller strip malls where the they're in the parking lot going into the the the first accessible entrance there. Then we don't have complaints about the side ramp. We have had complaints in the past about one particular model and the rear ramp. some difficulty with the rear ramp. That was subsequently resolved through adding a kneeling function to the vehicle, but uh side ramps um we have not been experiencing complaints or difficulties as I understand. Thank you. >> I must sound really bad. Thank you. >> Thank you. Does that answer your question, Jake? >> Uh it does. Just to add some uh further context. Um, so when I'm on the DA's vehicle with my service dog, often times she's kind of forced into the aisle, which is not a super safe spot for her to be. Um, so yeah, just wanted to add that context. Um, and I have another quick comment about the ramps if I can. >> You still have time. You got five minutes in total. >> Yeah. Um, just to um Michelle's comment about the uh side ramps for darts. Um, I don't I know that folks probably haven't uh made complaints, but I know for myself I experience a little bit of a challenge with um the steepness of the ramps. I know a lot of folks that access darts um get assistance up the ramps. So, that might be why there aren't uh complaints. But similarly to Tim's point, uh I also have concerns about the steepness of the ramp >> through the chair. Thank you, Jake. That's good information for us. >> Thanks very much, Jake. Uh next up, we have Paula. >> Um I was just going to comment on Tim's thing about the ramps. the the a lot of the ramps for the promises are manual on darts and they don't seem to be too steep. So I don't know what the difference is Jeff between the ones you're getting and the ones that darts have. I don't think there is a difference. Is there >> through the chair? I don't I don't believe there is a difference. >> Okay. Thank you. That's it. Uh now Tim uh to continue with your questions. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So just I have a second question that I want to ask but before that just the the comment and and this goes back to what Paul is saying. You know no problem with the steepness of the ramp on on the darts vehicles. It's not about the vehicle. It's not about the it's not about the ramp. It's about what the ramp gets deployed to. And of course in the city of Hamilton, very rarely will there be a problem with the slope of very rarely would there be a problem with the slope of the ramp because the ramp's always being deployed to a sidewalk and and that mitigates the slope. Uh but in the ride share program uh there's the potential for uh the slope to be an issue because the ramp is is at some points not going to be deployed to a sidewalk. It's going to be deployed to the road and therefore uh you know you turn what is a one and 12 slope into a one and four slope which is against code. So that said, uh there was a report recently from the CSA and I know Michelle has a copy. I'm not sure who else might have a copy on the staff side. It's a report from the CSA on research conducted around uh the design of of ramps for passenger vehicles. And I wonder if if uh if if that's been distributed and whether or not some of the recommendations that are contained in that report can be considered uh for this next round of vehicle vehicle purchases um for the ride share program >> through the chair. Tim, um I believe I did send it out to my colleagues um once you sent it to me or once you reminded me to send it and I will go back and double check, but um as I understand the MTO regulations are based on DS DS 409. So um I don't know what's going to be the outcome with the new research uh from DS 409 and ramps and their impact on the MTO regulations. I'm certainly not a subject matter expert there, but I do know that currently uh this this vehicle is DS 409 compliant. Um the other thing to remember about the side ramps um to Paula's point as well uh on the darts vehicles, they are deployed um not necessarily on a curb. They are sometimes deployed on the road. Um and it does affect the pitch, but the pitch still meets the MTO regulation. So the MTO regulation when it is uh the determination of whether the vehicle meets the MTO regulation is determined from the ramp to a a roadway not from the ramp to a curb as I understand. >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh are there any other questions? No. Okay. I have a series of questions. Um if Paula if you could take the chair if you could monitor my time and if anybody has questions in between please raise your hand. >> Uh okay. Um you mentioned you're going with ProMaster because Darts has gone with ProMaster. Um what is the reasoning for not looking at the Rbox >> right now? uh through the chair. We we had the Rbox before and I they they did what they needed to do at the time, but they were very it's having the cutaway uh parts availability is very hard uh to when we're trying to keep them up and and keeping them uh together. Now, we we we do see they they get a lot of nicks and dings and bangs and dents. And to get to replace a panel on an Arbach that's a cutaway is a lot harder than having a a van body that we can just go call up Dodge and get that van body and put it on or repair that flat body surface. Um it's a lot easier to spec parts for it. When you have the cutaways, now you're into a bunch of different manufacturers and you're trying to get these parts and they might not have the parts. So, uh, going with the ProMaster, we thought this was a good way to kind of get into this this, um, this type of market just to see how it goes. Like, like, uh, Michelle said, um, this is a pilot. Things could change. U, maybe, maybe these aren't going to be good enough. Maybe we're going to see such a influx that we might need to look at a different vehicle. But right now, we thought uh price point and uh being able to get parts for them and keep them up was this this was a a a good option that that would meet some of the requ the requirements that we need. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um now you mentioned uh you're going to have the ramp handle pull out. Is it going to be a double handle because I know Creative Carriages was playing with a double handle pull out. Is it going to be single handle, double handle? >> Yeah, the one the the one that we seen up at the factory was a one handle. that had the hook and uh and it pulls right out. Um just I know we were talking about the ramps and I will look into more. Um so it is one to six onto the road and it's 1 to 12 if it goes to a curb and I don't from uh being a technician myself um looking at the operation there would be no way to you could only pull it out halfway because it would be standing up in the air. You have to fully pull it out for it to pivot down. No, I was looking at at ease of the the operator and also for the person to get it because the the double handle they literally you had to thread the needle just right. So, >> it's still one I did see the one with the hook. Yeah. >> Um, next question. Uh, why only two PMDs when it could fit three? Is there a chance for getting some that have three and some that have two just to give you some options or >> There there is. Uh, so there's definitely different options to choose. We thought this one fit the best because uh for just with seating capacity with the fold up seats. Um I'd have to take a look. I don't think we can fold the seats up uh behind the driver and have two side by side. I think you can pull it up and you can put one off to the side, but it's going to be one behind and one up front. That's that's the the one we're looking at. Yeah. >> Thank you. Uh you also mentioned that you won't have the back ramp. Um I often see darts deploying the back ramp as opposed to the side ramp. Um and significantly more often in winter when there's snow. Um is that going to hamper I mean that they did have an advantage to being having a back ramp and you know talking with my team at HSR you know it's not something that we do. We don't board a light from the rear of any of our conventional buses and we didn't want to introduce something that could be a safety hazard. We wouldn't um I think with darts and I I don't know darts as well as maybe Michelle, but I think they go to parking lots and stuff, so it's a lot safer to to maybe unload from the rear, but if we're going to be on the street having that ramp deployed on the street, I would hate to have uh someone that might not be paying attention going to the back of the bus with with the with the ramp out. So, we were kind of thinking safety wise, it would be better just to keep it at the side ramp. >> But my concern is that you're not going to always have a choice. Like as I say with snow, sometimes there is no place to deploy the side ramp and people are having to deploy directly on the road from the back. So if you don't have a ramp, I mean even if you don't possibly use it as a regular policy or whatnot and just have it as a backup, if you don't have a ramp, then you've eliminated your backup option. So that's that was my concern when I when I raised that issue, >> you know. Uh that's that's I'll let me bring that back and and and we can discuss that. But um >> Okay. Uh I'll just pause here to see if anybody would like to step in and No. Okay. Uh we'll just continue. Um so the policies on board uh these vehicles are they going to be the same as ATS or are they going to be same or are they going to be HS because these are HSR vehicles right? >> Yes. Yes. >> Um through the chair by policies do you mean booking booking windows? No, I meant operation. For example, uh ATS has the policy that a person under a certain age must sit on a lap and be secured that way. Is that going to be a policy on these vehicles? >> The policies would be the same as HSR policies for travel. I mean, if there are going to be operational or safety concerns related to, for example, the age of somebody traveling on the ProMaster, that's something to consider and review with operations. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Uh you mentioned LED lighting. Uh, is this going to be eye safe because a lot of people get triggered by LED lights. >> Just thought I'd put it on your list. >> Thank you. >> A lot of the manufacturers are going >> Thank you. Oh, and there are plenty of LED lighting options out there that are just good, but there are some that really set people off. So, I just want to put that on there. Uh, you mentioned fair boxes. Are we talking like standard size fair boxes? through the chair. Uh we are they're going to look the same, but they probably are going to be on a smaller pedestal. They'll be shorter just to fit in to the spot that they have to go into. >> They would because so because we can't use the the pair boxes as they're currently designed. So that's that. >> Yeah. I I believe the the footprint inside of the the CS2 is not big enough to put a fullsize fairbox. So we're looking at uh where they have a smaller platform. So yeah, >> perfect. uh operator training. Is it going to be uh different than HSR? Is it going to be more darts like or is it going to be just standard HSR operator uh and PMD training? >> Uh through the chair. That's definitely something we would have to take back and talk to operations. That's not something that I can speak to. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh and you mentioned uh how easy was to pull it out. Um that's great when it's in the factory. How long do these things last and hold up for example in durability? Like two years from now, are the drivers going to be having a hard time pulling them out or >> uh through the chair? Uh that's it's funny you asked that question. So uh we we have been talking about ramps quite a bit at HSR and uh we do have a very good program, preventative maintenance program for our conventional buses. These buses would fall in line with that. So we uh we we our buses get serviced uh every month. to get it looked at and uh they do they get a ramp inspection like just a a ramp inspection itself twice a year. So I would say that they would be on the same maintenance program and they would be looked at pretty often. So we would hate to see uh we'd hate to see that happen because definitely pulling them out and they did get seized would cause a lot more issues than having it seize up if it was mechanical. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Well, thank you very much. I think that has exhausted my list of questioning. So I think I will take back the chair. Yeah, it's yours. >> Thank you very much, Paula. Sorry for um monopolizing the time, but does anybody else have any follow-up questions um at this time? I'm not seeing any. Well, then um may I please have a mover and a seconder to receive items 7.1 through 7.8 with the exclusion of I believe 7.4. as >> you move Paula seconded by >> I'll second it. >> Thank you. Leaf. Uh is there any discussion on these items? >> No. Uh then is there anybody opposed to moving this motion? I'm seeing none. Then that is carried. Thank you very much. And I'm telling me I have to relinquish the chair. Okay, I'll take the chair, sir. >> Thank you very much, Paula. Uh, we're into motions. 9.1, accessibility committee for person with disabilities concerns with replacing city's urban braille system with tactile plates in the city of Hamilton. Uh a that the accessibility committee for person with disabilities submit the correspondence attaches appendix a detailing concerns with the recent plan to update the city's urban braille system replacing textured paving pads with tactile plates across the city of Hamilton the public works committee for consideration and that members named to be determined by committee be authorized to delegate on behalf of the accessibility committee for person with disabilities so the public works committee respecting concerns with replacing textured paving pads or tactile plates across the city of Hamilton. Okay. So, this is your motion, right, James? >> Correct. >> So, you need a second. >> Oh, first need a second. >> Anybody want to say? >> We have a second for this, please. >> Uh, I can Jake. >> Thank you, Jake. And um is there any discussion on the motion? >> Not seeing anyone. Paula Kim Paula Kim Kim has a question. >> Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. Sorry. >> Yeah. Thanks, Paula. What about I'm just thinking of what about streets that have um urban braille all the way up the sides, both sides. Are there going to be like tactile plates all the way along the whole road or just at the corners? >> It it's only going to be at the sidewalk transition corners. The rest of the urban rail system is going to remain as is. >> Oh, good. Okay, good. >> Okay. Any more questions? >> I have a question. Tim, here. >> Yes, Tim. Uh to be honest with you, I don't understand the motion. So I mean maybe everybody else gets it, but I I don't other than being able to delegate on behalf of the ACPD to comment to public works or whoever when this report goes. Uh can you explain what the purpose of the motion is? >> It's to move a communication to public works and to determine who can delegate to public works. >> So to move a communicate what is the communication? >> The communication was on the agenda last month and I believe it's on the agenda this month. Yes. Appendix A. >> Well, do you mind do you mind reading it again for the sake of through the chair. Absolutely not. Tim >> Tim, the letter is eight pages. It's been on the agenda for two months. James is not reading it out. >> Thank you. >> Can Can we not like do we know when this report is going >> through the chair? I don't have a date for the report yet. >> Okay. >> I It's my understanding that it's been delayed. So with that with that in mind, um do we know if the public consultations have taken place so that people with disabilities across the community have an opportunity to comment as opposed to just ACPD commenting? >> I can speak to this, Tim. >> Yes. >> Hey Tim. Yes, I'm in the discussion with Susan Jacob about setting up uh events at Bernie Morelli and at Sackville Senior Center for people to come and test out with a white cane or to drive over them and see what they're like. I've also given a list of current um tactile plates are in place of various designs across the city uh so people have an idea of where they are and if they'd like to go out and and see what they're like in place uh as well. Um, that's that's where we are right now. We're still just waiting to set up the date with Jessica Bowen. >> So, I guess my my with that in mind, is is an eight-page letter to council not a bit premature at this moment given that we don't know what the opinion is of people across the community. Um, Susan Jacobs attended the CCB meeting last week and the people in attendance of the CCB meeting are people within the blind and visually impaired community. Uh, they were completely fine with it. And that's not and I'm not, you know, I'm not expressing what my own personal opinion is on the matter, but people in the blind and visually impaired community, which is probably one of the most affected populations in this city, they were unconcerned. So, I think before we write to council with an opinion, I'd like us to have more conversation and gather more information from people in the community about this matter because no matter what we say or we do, Metroinks is going ahead with what it's going to do. And we might be better to work with Metroinks and city staff on this matter than to just simply oppose it. So um >> so Tim, what is your suggestion? Are you suggesting we defer? >> Well, on the basis of two points of information. One is we don't know when this report is going to go to council. And secondly, there hasn't been a communitywide consultation as yet to gather feedback from people with disabilities other than those of us who sit around this table. With those two pieces of information in mind, >> an eight-page letter to council on this matter may be premature. And the last thing we want to do is to submit a a a comment to council on this matter and be completely contradicted by people with disabilities in the community is not going to serve the city very well at all if we contradict the opinions of others. So I think it's better for us to defer this matter, hold off, and not act hastily. we would be better to get all of our ducks in a row before we uh take a position on this matter, but that's that's just my opinion. So, >> okay. >> Anyway, >> yeah, the uh letter actually asks for all of these things. It asks for consultation with the public. It raises some of these concerns and says that we're not all on the same page and we would like a chance to speak to all the members of the public that were be involved in this to get a full consensus. That's that's pretty much what the letter is discussing. >> Okay. Well, if that's if that's what we're asking for and the city's already doing that, then why do we need to ask them to do something that they're already doing? >> This was put in at a time that we hadn't actually found out what they were doing. At the same point, uh it still raises concerns. It still exists. I'm not entirely sure if it's necessary to pull it. Well, then maybe the letter needs to be rewritten to withdraw any recommendations around asking staff to do something that they're already doing. And and if if uh raising the concern uh is is not premature, then uh I don't understand because we haven't gathered all our information yet, which then makes it premature. Can I see? >> So, can I suggest that we get a hold of Sarah and ask what the city's intent is to do community uh engagement? >> Or can I say something, Paula? >> Yes, my dear. >> Um or we could just say we agree, we want to support what the city's doing. We support it. So it gives them more information. >> I don't support it. Anyway, that's okay. >> Oh, if we do or if we do or don't, >> right? Um I think we need James. I think we need more information to and and maybe we need to change the weather. I don't know. But this is my opinion that Sarah should come and tell us what the actual city is doing to get more information from the disability community. >> Paula Cara has her hand up. >> Oh, sorry Cara. >> Uh, no problem. Um, thanks. I guess like in regard to the comments about should we be reaching out to the broader disability comm community comm community um before submitting correspondence to council like in support or in this case not in support. Um is that the role of the ACPD to do public consultation because that's not my understanding. >> No, it's the city's role to do that. We're asking the city to do that to to to do a larger community engagement, not just ACPD, >> right? I guess like I I heard the previous commentary that like we should be the suggesting that we do that and >> No. >> Okay. >> No, we don't do that. We're we're an advisory committee. We're not we're not uh uh um the other word I can't think. My brain's gone. >> Yeah. We're not conducting consultation on like >> no >> on behalf of all like you know the broader disability community >> right will change. Thank you. >> Okay James got his hand up next. >> Oh Jake. Sorry Jake. >> Uh that's okay Paula. Um so I guess a quick question. Can we not just do both? Can we not put through the communication and then maybe add something that says asks the city to do further outreach? >> Well, I I don't um >> it actually is in the letter, Jake. To answer your question, >> to do further outreach, >> um if we don't know when this letter on the meeting is about this, can we not go? I know James, you put a lot of work into this letter, but I think from what I'm hearing here, maybe everybody needs to reread the letter and then effectively say what needs to be changed or what needs to be added. >> With respect, Paula, it's been on the agenda for two months. I I would be open to people deferring or not. It just the committee needs to decide. >> Okay. So, Carrie, do I ask for a vote on deferring? >> We would need a motion to defer, Paula. And from someone who hasn't spoken. >> Oh, from somebody who hasn't spoken. >> Oh, well, that could be interesting. I guess Levi would have to do it then. Or Robert if they want to defer. If we are putting it out to vote, if if we are putting it out to vote, I'm happy to put a motion in place uh to see what the uh perspective of the group is as far as whether we're going to pass it or defer it. >> So, I make a motion to uh >> Are you moving to >> You're moving to approve it or to ask the committee what they want to do, whether they want to defer or not? Yeah, I'm asking the committee if they want to defer or not. >> Okay. And second. >> Okay. Seconder. >> Robert. Councelor Tatter. >> Councelor Tatterson has his hand up. >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Tatter. Okay then. So, we need a vote then whether we're going to defer or not defer. Can I have a show of hands then for those who want to defer? >> Sorry. >> We're have to do this as a recorded vote simply because not everybody has camera and stuff like that. So, we'll have to do this one at a time. >> Oh, we got to do it by >> May I make a mo a comment on this this motion? >> Yes. >> Uh I appreciate that uh two things. First that this has been on the agenda for two months. We didn't have a meeting last month and had we had a meeting last month then I would have made the same comment. So to make a claim that this has been on the agenda for two months is is not quite correct because we didn't actually >> secondly >> Tim your comments need to be related to the motion to defer. >> That is related to the motion to defer. And so the second the second comment uh to on why we might or might not defer the matter uh if if it's not >> temp through the chair your comments need to be on the instructions for the motion to defer. >> I I get that >> with the motion to defer. >> I'm I'm going to if I can get my words out. Can I can I make the comment first? >> I don't know. >> Whether or not they're acceptable. >> It's about whether we're going to defer or not. I guess that's what Carrie's saying. >> If we're deferring, if we're going to defer or not defer because the committee can or cannot do outreach. This isn't about outreach. It's about whether or not the city is doing outreach. That's >> so I think this matter is >> that's and that's why I'm saying that this letter and I do appreciate the time and effort that James has put into it. >> Tim, again, I get that >> we're voting on the motion to defer. >> Okay, Tim. Tim, you is that's it. You're done. Okay, so I need >> a no. Um Carrie, can we go through people to see if it's a yes or a no? Yes. I'll go through one by one for you. >> Thank you, my dear. >> James >> opposed. >> James was a no. >> Yeah. >> Levi. >> No. >> Levi was a no. Cara. >> No. >> Cara was a no. Tim. >> Uh, yeah. Approved. Yes. Agreed. Defer >> Kim, >> I agree to defer >> to get more information. >> Leaf. >> Defer. >> Okay. >> Leaf was a yes. >> Yeah. >> Uh Jake, >> no. >> Jake was a no. Robert, >> yes. Yes. Defer >> Ann Hargan. >> No. >> Did we ask Councelor Tatterson? >> I'm just going to ask him. >> Oh, sorry. >> Sorry, Gary. >> Councelor Tatterson. >> No. >> Councelor Tison said no. >> And Paula, you have a vote as well. Oh, do I? >> Of course. >> Okay, I'm going to say >> no. Four, five, six, seven. >> So that was seven nos >> and one, two, three, four, and four yeses. >> Okay. So the vote is not to defer the letter. >> So the vote is defeated. Yes. So now you have to deal with the motion. That's on the floor. It was moved by James and seconded by Jake. >> Right. >> Okay. >> So, now we need to vote on the motion as as read by James. Right. >> As read by James. And also B, you need to have some members to be determined by the committee authorized to delegate. >> Okay. Okay. >> And James has his hand up. >> Okay. James. Yes. Would you like to say >> I was just saying I can put my name on those list to delegate for any other members I'd like to delegate to? I'm sure lots of people have just something to say. >> Okay. Anybody else want to delegate, please? >> No, I'll do it on behalf of the >> So that's a note in from you then. >> No. >> Okay. Anybody else? I will delegate. >> Okay. I've got James and Paula. >> Anybody else want to delegate? There's still time, right? Um Carrie, can they still put their name in even though >> it should be it should be done during this motion? >> Okay. Okay. So, we have >> welcome to delegate on behalf of themselves and not on behalf of ACPD. >> All right. Yes. Okay. So, >> sorry. Can I ask when this meeting is for the delegation? No, Jake. That's the thing. >> Jake, I'm not sure when the meeting is. I'm sorry. Through the chat. >> Okay, that's fine. I will not put my name forward then. >> No, I also suggest people can put their name in and then um remove it afterwards. >> Yes, >> which is easier to do than add. So, seeing that, saying that. Okay. So, can I have a vote to accept the delegates and this motion? >> Right. >> Is that right, Carrie? >> Thank you. So, anybody against the delegates and the motion? >> Can I be recorded as opposed to the motion, not the delegation? >> Yes. >> Is that possible to split that out? Yes. Yes, >> I will do then. >> And you will too, Kim? >> I will. >> Okay. Anybody else against this motion and the delegates? No. Okay. Motion is carried. Whatever it is to two against, right? >> The motion's carried Paula. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay, James, please take back the chair. Uh, >> I will take back the chair only for a minute. I need you to take it back over again for other business. I just have a number of announcements to make. >> Okay, I will take back the chair then. >> Um, okay. Uh, so a bunch of things happened over the last month or two. Uh, just want to update everybody. Um, I received an accessibility complaint on the TD Coliseum um, from a member who attended uh, from a a citizen, sorry, resident who attended the Guess Who concert um, and found it completely inaccessible. They had no way of getting her to her seat. Um, they actually had to find her special seating in a box. Uh, she couldn't walk all the way around to the elevator. she couldn't see the doorways from the aisleways, the dark black color contrasting uh and so on. So, I just want to put that on the uh radar as we we've been asking to see the TD coliseum and review its accessibility and um this is the first complaint that has come through um from a resident uh on the issue. >> Okay. >> Uh next up is um Senator 3. Uh, Senator 3 would uh like to um cooperate with the ACPD uh for the fair uh to test out their beacon system um which directs people to what they're looking at where everything is in relation to everything else um and is for not just people with the blind and vision loss but also for people with other disabilities that may need um assistance. Uh, so I can >> can I ask a question about PD Coliseum? >> Yes, >> the complaint. Um, so should we um write a letter to this person to acknowledge that we hear her and that we're taking it forward or something just to let her know she's not unheard, >> right? >> He or she. >> We can do that. Yes. Uh, in full disclosure, it is a relative of mine. Oh, okay. >> Doesn't matter. >> Doesn't matter who it is. >> Yeah. Okay. But isn't that privately owned? >> No, it's actually leased. Uh, so technically we should have access to it. >> Okay. Because I know we've asked many times. Okay. >> Next, James. Sorry. >> Uh, so next up, uh, we have the senior's kickoff in two days. Uh, that's going to be up now at Michelangelo's. It's back over there. Um, and that'll be two days from now, I believe. Mark and I are going to be there as well as Paula at the darts table. Anybody else is welcome to come on up and uh sit at the table if they like or just check out the the event and just let me know. Um one last thing I want to put on a uh extraneous note uh accessible taxis. There was a a large media response on a um person living in Waterlue who's actually an elected official being stranded for three hours in Missaga because there was no accessible taxis. And I I want to put it on the radar because if that person came to Hamilton then that might very well be a reality here too. >> So um we should um continue pushing forward on the accessible taxi front. >> Yes. And I that is on my radar for um actually um after the summer I think. Okay. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Oh yes. I have three more things. Uh the accessibility awards, the nominations opened last Monday. So they'll be open from June 1st till July 3rd. >> Um so there'll be four four possible uh awards. The business, the community organization or community group, the uh individual award, and the youth under 29 award. Um, so that will be uh going on until July 3rd. And uh I'd also like to put out that we could use judges. If anybody would like to be an adjudicator uh for the accessibility awards, please by all means let me know and I'll put you down on the list. Uh accessibility fair. Uh we've uh applied for a seat application. Uh we have our banner reserved. Um we are going to start sending out invites to exhibitors and we've already had a couple of people asking us about sponsorship. I'm not sure if it'll go anywhere, but I just wanted to update you on that. >> I know. I'm sorry about that. Yes. >> Oh, that's okay, Paula. Uh, and then the last thing was the volunteer recruitment drive. Um, we over the past two months, we had 187 people registered. We had well, as of tomorrow, we will have had five info sessions. We have our last one tomorrow. Uh, currently we have 20 volunteers that have gone through the whole process and and um agreed to participate. Um, we also have to pivot on the ad campaign. There's an extra month on the ad campaign uh to go to the fair and the awards because we don't need it for the volunteer recruitment anymore, but we were required to pay for a three-month um campaign. And I believe that's it for my updates. >> Paula Hen has her hand up. >> Yes, I saw that. Yeah, Hogan. >> Uh thanks Paula. James, just wondering if you can um briefly just go over what the role of the volunteers will be in relation to ACPD. like are there certain things that they're not able to do as a volunteer that we can do as a committee member and just curious what the like the distinction is? >> Yes. Uh members um decide um through consensus on what issues are going to be dealt with. Volunteers are there to support uh so through research through um phone calling through uh social media design uh to to support uh the needs of the working group but they will not be making decisions as far as members are concerned. just more to give them an opportunity to see what we do and perhaps see if they'd like to u volunteer as members in the new year. >> And are there any plans to um like retain them for the future? Like is there a particular term that they have? Is there anything that they are getting out of like I guess I'm just wondering is there anything we can do to retain more interest in people eventually being involved in the committee or contributing further? Um have there been any discussions or thoughts on how to meaningfully engage them? Uh Hargan, you're getting a little bit ahead of me. We are still in the middle of onboarding. As I said, it's been a it's been a difficult month for me. So, I'm a little bit behind on the onboarding. I was hoping to be a little bit ahead. Um but from from the uh comments that I'm getting from the volunteers, uh they just want stuff to do. They want to be active and engaged. Uh so, we need to find tasks for them. >> Sounds good. Thanks so much, James. really exciting to see so much interest and would love to chat um later as well about ways to involve them. >> Certainly. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Are we uh is that it then? >> That's all I have for the updates. Yep. >> Okay. Uh would you like the chair back? >> I'll take the chair back. >> Okay. What's next on the agenda? I don't even know. >> It's We're in general information, other business. Is there any other general information, other business? Um, well, if anybody's interested for general information, as of June the 19th, I will be no longer on the darts board. I have done nine years and my term is over. So, I will be removing one of my hats. >> Congratulations, Paula. That's a lot of work and uh I'm sure the community appreciates it. Thank you. Thank you, James. Okay, >> Hargan just gave you some applause. >> Okay. Is there any other general information or other business? >> No. Then there being no further business, this meeting is now adjourned at 57 47. Thank you very much everybody. Have yourselves a great day. I Yeah.