Bravo and chair of the economic and community development committee. We have quorum and I I am now calling uh meeting 28 to order. Welcome everyone. Today's meeting is being held by video conference and in person at city hall in committee room 1. This meeting is also being livereamed online at youtube.com/toorronto city councsil live. I want to start by saying um that we acknowledge the land in Toronto as a way of showing our obligations. Um and I want to recognize that this committee um acknowledges that these lands that we're on are the ancestral territories of the Anesnab, Chipoad, Hodnosoni, and Wendap peoples. um and also that it's now home to many uh diverse first nations, Inuit and Metis people. We also importantly acknowledge that Toronto's covered by Treaty 13 with the Missagas of the Credit and a Nation to nation agreement. If you are uh registered to speak at today's meeting, please listen for me to call your name. I will call speakers in the order they appear on the list. The list of speakers can be viewed online by visiting the economic and community development committee page at toronto.ca/counsel ca back/counsel and clicking the speakers box for today's meeting. Members, the city clerk has provided all agenda materials on toronto.ca/counsel and cmp the clerk's meeting portal. Clerk's IT staff are available to members if you need help with your devices. I also want to remind you to please submit and approve your motions by email. Staff are available at ecd toronto.ca to help with motions. Are there any declarations of interest under the Municipal Conflict of Interest Act at this time? Nope. Seeing none, um, we will proceed. Uh, may I have a motion to confirm the minutes from our meeting on April 9, 2026. Councelor Moyes moved by Councelor Moyes. All those in favor? Opposed? That's carried. And now we will proceed to the agenda review. Uh, the first item, EC28.1, Sidewalks to Skylines, a 10-year action plan for Toronto's economy, update on implementation. >> Would anyone like to hold that? >> Yeah, I'll have a motion on that. Thank >> Thank you. Uh, EC28.2 economic development and culture grants 2025 funding allocation and museums and heritage grants. Would anyone like to hold that? I'll move adoption if there are no holds. Uh >> moved by councelor uh Carol. All those in favor? Opposed? That's carried. EC28.3 Riverside District Business Improvement Area Expansion poll results. Would anyone like to hold that? >> No. >> Move adoption. >> Uh move uh by councelor Carol. All those in favor? Opposed? That's carried. Wow. >> EC28.4 2027 shelter infrastructure plan. I'm holding that for a speaker. EC28.5 early local registration expansion update and outcomes. That's held for speakers. EC28.6 access to outdoor ovens and parks progress update and that's held for speaker when so we will proceed. um to our >> Oh, yes. Thank you. That's why I need to have the clerk beside me. Uh um this is a new item EC28.7 uh requires uh this requires a motion to add as new business and it's moved by um Deputy Mayor Malik. All those in favor of adding it to the agenda, opposed, that's carried. Thank you. And now we will uh proceed to EC28.1 Sidewalk to Skylines, a 10-year action plan for Toronto's economy. Uh 2025 2035 update on implementation. Are there any questions of staff? No. No questions of staff. Oh, >> councelor Canville, you have questions? >> Okay. Uh anyone else have questions of staff? I don't >> I was just hesitating because I I thought counselor the the motion I'm going to be moving is on behalf of councelor Chang. I thought she was going to log on to ask some questions but I don't I don't see her logged on. Well, I'll ask a couple of questions because I know what the motion is in while people get ready. Um um to economic de uh development and culture. There are um there's a lot of interest um in comm in among academics and as a matter of social and economic interest in the realm of uh data uh management, data sovereignty and digital assets and the levers that we may or may not be able to use um as a municipality in relation to what is now considered um something as valuable as oil. Uh are are there any comments as to whether uh there could be a scope um in relation to the setting up the motion by councelor Chang um to be able to move something in relation to this um this asset and what we could do to leverage it? uh to the chair. Um you're right, data is an incredibly valuable resource in the knowledge economy and uh requires proprietary infrastructure um that can manage um risks around sovereignty and can also build up an industrial base. Um, councelor Chang's motion calls on the city to look at its purchasing power um, $18 billion operating budget as um, a tool by which to help seed and scale domestic software applications for use by municipalities. Uh, it is consistent with the objectives not just in Sidewalks and Skylands but also particularly in the tariff action plan. uh and it would need to be balanced certainly with uh the obligation of the city to taxpayers to uh procure in a in a transparent competitive fashion the most cost effective uh solutions possible. >> Thanks. Uh I'm not going to move a motion today on this but I would like to uh given the opportunity to talk about um uh digital and uh software and tech in general. um in terms of our objectives uh in relation to um so uh social and economic inequality and writing that uh do we need to do work it is there is it important to consider the impact of for example algorithmic pricing >> um to the chair yes there's been a lot of work uh discussion in this council chamber as well as with the province around consumer protections um that would avoid predatory pricing um for entertainment as one recent example. Um many of those levers fall outside the the the control of the municipality. Uh and this council has called upon uh staff to work with those of the province who control uh such measures in order to provide greater consumer protection. And is al algorithmic pricing more of a a threat um to populations that are working for example with lower incomes? Um when we start talking about uh um the pricing of food, the pricing of household essentials, the pricing of things that you know, you want to buy uh um baby aspirin and you're online and all of a sudden uh you because of your profile, you know that you're going to pay more than someone else. Is is there something to explore there around the outcomes in the future? uh to the chair u I think working with civil society groups uh some of those mentioned in councelor Changeng's motion uh who are encouraging the type of protections around personal data that can inform algorithmic and dynamic pricing models uh so that uh people are not disadvantaged in uh in e-commerce in access to essential goods >> and of course uh we would need stronger um stronger uh legislation and regulation as is done in jurisdictions for example within the European Union to protect people um and to have sovereignty over their own individual data. So thank you. Are other counselors ready now for for your questions? >> Councelor Kanderville questions of staff. >> Uh thank you Madam Chair. um within the the 10-year plan. Um what's if if any consideration given to the role um strip plazas play in the economic development of uh particularly in suburban communities >> to the chair. um strip the taxonomy of built form in the city where uh in the inner suburbs strip plazas are a more much more common feature uh than in uh Toronto and East York require the city to uh figure out how best to support uh them from a planning and taxation standpoint. um as well as with community economic development grants which we've done. Those strip plazas frequently are the site of um the first entry into commercial activity for newcomer entrepreneurs and perform a critical function in terms of creating pathways to employment and entrepreneurship. Um there are efforts to look at how uh those strip malls could for example take advantage of the small business property tax subclass uh and work with the province to figure out how to best make that happen. The city uh I'll close on this uh is also active through economic development and culture uh through grants to community organizations like Plaza Pops working in Wexford. Yeah. >> Uh to try to support those sites. Uh appreciate that the the that overview and approach. Um, in particular, is there any consideration of a development of uh whether it's a framework, but to um revisit a policy that's um housed in planning to seek preservation or to deincentivize um or to incentivize the preservation of it within a redevelopment application >> to the chair. I'll pass to my colleagues in planning >> through the chair. Andrew Farankum from city planning councelor. The um the division has uh undertaken the plaza POV study which looks at the role and uh impact on the loss of of strip plazas through redevelopment. And that work is um is now moving into its next phase which will help inform a policy response and uh and program initiatives and uh among those we we will be examining different policy levers that can be um can be used to reinforce the importance of strip plazas. >> Um do we have a timeline on when that that would be coming back? I think in the in the sidewalks to skylines that timeline was 2027 our target. >> Would that work um in in relation to the planning um impact would that come to PHC as uh a policy amendment or recommendation to to seek preservation? >> Yeah. Through the chair. Yes. If it were if that we were proposing um changes to official plan policy that would that was citywide it would go through planning and housing committee. >> Um as part of the thinking on that is there uh some sense that it could be by district that what may be suitable for Tobico and Scar Bro would obviously not be suitable for the East York and the Toronto core. to the chair. I think it's a bit early for us to for me to comment on that, but that is a conversation counselor we could have. >> Uh, thank you. And and coming back to to EDC folks, um beyond the the clear economic role plazas serve for obviously independent small businesses um that are often as you had mentioned new newcomers or um >> yeah, >> what is the cultural review of the role they play in in neighborhood identity. >> Um to the chair, um strip malls are critical. I'll call them community hubs that produce social and economic opportunity in the inner suburbs. Uh academics in Toronto like David Halchansky at the University of Toronto has talked about their function uh in entrepreneurship development but also innovation. Um we work with a series of organizations. We've mentioned Plaza Pops um but have uh have also provided grants to Eat More Scar Bro, for example, who are using um newcomer entrepreneurs in strip malls with uh food offerings as a cornerstone of Scarboro's brand uh and trying to develop a culinary tourism uh market for Scarboro. So, strip malls feature prominently just to choose one example in that economic development strategy for Scarboro. >> Um, okay. Thank you. Those are my questions. >> Thank you. Um, Councelor Carol, questions of staff. >> Yes, I I do now because I just want to ask some follow-up questions to to that. Um we we have we have sort of grappled with the issue of of how to assist strip malls in the same way we we do main streets and high streets. We we struggled with how to include them in the small business tax uh subclass. Uh we sort of have a solution there but it's dependent on the landowner ex extending the benefit. Am I right about that? Are we still at that point >> to the chair? That's correct. >> Okay. Um and and to be clear, while while we're supporting them and where they're thriving, we're helping them thrive and promote them, but it is still also a the official plan contemplates that um that where they're not thriving, we have to we have to look at at where from a planning perspective historically there they haven't turned out to be the best planning idea. And so where we can uh convert to a more main street and fronting uh further front and and more engaged with the street that is still the development guideline going forward. Am I right about that >> to the chair? Uh I'll pass to my colleague Andrew in city planning >> to the chair. Thank you councelor for that question. Um I I think our plaza POV strip study plaza looks at um at the role of of plazas and and the policy recommendations in that report look at how we can support existing businesses to to help them thrive. um how we can enhance the physical experience of the plaza and perhaps that's what you were getting at in terms of um introducing improved public realm uh specifically within the parking lots in front but in particular how we can mitigate displacement of businesses as new development comes along avenues and um and and near near transit hubs, >> right? because you know recognizing uh a a a different type of street realm, our complete streets guidelines, our development guidelines, etc. Um uh where we move to a more main street oriented um uh uh profile as opposed to a parking lot with with all their retail set back. That that is still the future where where a plaza is not thriving despite our supports. We're not trying to pres We're not trying to preserve them in cotton wool is what I'm getting at where they where they haven't succeeded >> right through the chair through the housing action plan and the avenues study work. Um the the the council's direction is to pursue mid-rise development and housing and that would uh that would uh be something that would be more uh more street oriented without the parking as you say towards the front. >> Right. But where where they are thriving and the community wants to uh uh continue on, we do what we can to make sure those businesses succeed. It's that balance >> through the chair. That's that's correct. Council City Planet would works closely with economic development and culture towards that that outcome. >> Thank you. Thank you. Those are my questions. >> Thank you. Uh councelor Moyes questions of staff. >> Uh thank you and through chair. I just want to find out more. We know that BAS are really, you know, plays a really big part in the success of neighborhoods and businesses. Are there steps to increase BAS across uh the city as part of this initiative? >> To the chair, yes. Uh the plan calls on the creation of uh a large number of BAS over uh a 10-year time frame. I think it's 125. We currently sit at 86. uh there's a recognition that growth needs to be accompanied by increasing capacity building. there are yeah some issues with the the supports provided to BAS and so EDC is conscious that it would have to undertake those two actions simultaneously strengthen the existing network while building uh towards the greater number of BAS and I'd note there are currently about 10 I would say in the pipeline at various stages of pursuing the steps laid out in chapter 19 to form a new BIA. Okay, that's I'm happy to hear that. And of course, you know, we don't want to leave indigenous people behind. Um, what steps are being taken to actually help with indigenous procurement and uh entrepreneurship in the city around this plan? >> To the chair, I'll start and call on my colleagues to may wish to add anything. Um, indigenous economic development is a significant priority within the plan. Um I would and there are three interlocking commitments within the plan. One stand up an uh indigenous center for innovation and entrepreneurship. Two convene an indigenous economic development strategy and three through that convening produce an indigenous economic development report. They are sequenced in such a way that the ICIE uh is just completing its capital work right now soon to locate an indigenous uh operator for the site and then we would move on the other two. So we are a little bit delayed um on that. Um in parallel there's a lot of work with uh PMMD uh in order to look at strengthening the social procurement policies in the city particularly with respect to indigenous suppliers and we have oh pass to my colleague at PMMD. >> Thank you uh chair. So we are currently working on separating the social procurement policy from indigenous procurement. That work's been going on since about late 2024 and we are coming to committee uh this term with a first draft of or with a with an indigenous procurement policy uh that will will with new procurement tools and approaches that will allow us to spend more with indigenous businesses. >> Is it coming back to this uh committee and when >> it's going to executive committee in June? >> Okay, thank you. That's my question. Thank you. Uh, and now to speak. Oh, sorry. Questions of staff. Um, go ahead, Deputy Mayor Mel. >> Thank you very much, Chair. Um, just building on um, uh, Councelor Moyes's questions. Um, I'm interested to hear a little bit more about the progress being made on the indig indigenous procurement policy. Um, can you share a little bit about where that work is right now? Chair, we are we have a a draft of the policy that's currently being reviewed with legal services. It was co-developed with an advisory circle of First Nations Inuit and Matei procurement professionals. Uh and we've spent about a year and a half developing that work. It was also informed by national engagement with indigenous businesses. So we did virtual and inerson engagement with businesses. Um so the the policy is near completion. And are there other jurisdictions that have policies like this? >> Yes, quite a few. And the number is increasing. So we know uh Regina, um sorry, uh Yukon, Northwest Territories, uh I believe Manitoba and Saskatchewan, and the numbers are increasing. >> Thank you very much. Um my next question is um related to what we've been hearing and seeing uh with our downtown BAS in our main streets uh with the increasing number of of vacant storefronts um and looking to see how the strong main streets actions support BIA's in animating those vacant spaces to make sure that our streets stay vibrant and for the businesses that um that are still operating um that uh that the streets are welcoming uh for them and and to draw new business >> to the chair. Um this plan in calling for strong main streets uh talks a lot about the work through BAS to try to strengthen the economic vitality uh and the livability of main streets. The one of the key actions that's been completed is the creation of a downtown stewardship alliance. So the big six BIS have come together as the downtown uh BIA alliance and now provide us uh a one platform by which to deliver city services. I'll use the example of safety OBIA um looking at the issues of uh of safety and perceptions of safety in the core. Uh in addition, we've worked with the federal government to successfully secure money to be able to regrant out to BAS and through them to support small business for activations, some in vacant storefronts uh but mainly throughout the BIA catchments to include um facade an expanded facade improvement grant program which uh post pandemic we've expanded to take in new expenses that BAS has a forwarded asy priorities such as lighting safety, etc. >> Yeah. And I'm very aware and proud of the work that our downtown BAS are doing to be better coordinated um and to bring together their their um their expertise and strength. The issue of vacant storefronts though is a very specific one and and one that relates to some of the measures that we brought forward through the budget to support you know the the capability for businesses to be on our main streets. It also has to do with landlords and also has to do with some of the cooperative partnerships um that I know that that the city has tested in the past. So on this specific issue, um I'm trying to understand in this um in this uh strong main streets uh focus what what does it do to address that issue? >> To the chair. Um the primary means by which we support BAS to animate vacant storefronts uh are through the BIA grants supported by the federal government. that has allowed for them to work in partnership with some arts organizations uh to animate some spaces. Uh the issue persists beyond this the scope of that program to be able to fully remedy it. Uh and we have received direction from council and are working with our colleagues at revenue services to see if there are other policy levers uh that the city might be able to use via uh via property tax to try to incent um the retenanting quickly of vacant storefronts. Thank you uh to speak uh vice chair Carol and uh then councelor Shan. >> Uh yes, I asked uh clerks to advance circulate the the motion that I'm moving so that uh it would be in front of you because it's a it's a bit of a read. Um, this is uh this is a motion that that uh councelor Chang wanted to move and and I was happy to move it for her because she she really went about it in the right way. She had this this concern, this thought, went to staff uh to work on on making sure that it complements what's what's before you in the update plan and complements our our overall 10-year action plan. And I'm comfortable moving it. the federal government uh uh you know will will welcome this because it's it's work that they're already in a way starting to do uh theirou with cohair um uh to to work on on initiatives such as this so that they're working with a Canadian Toronto in fact uh uh startup that now has a global footprint uh means that they're ready to do this they're specialists in Agentic AI for which you know there are 10,000 ways we could uh we could use it to make uh municipal government, municipal life better. And so that sort of work is is is uh is likely to happen anyway, but this really puts our stamp on it that we want it to be a made in Canada solution. So I'm happy to move this on her behalf. Um uh just a few words on the the overall update. uh madame chair is that I I hope people it's a long read with a but it's got a chart at the end if you need it in point form but I hope people will have a look at it at this juncture because you know we're here we are with a a happy year left um this shows how very strategic and intentional economic development as a division economic development culture has been this entire term of office and it's it it should be uh uh underscore that, you know, we would in the start with the 2022 term started the work right away on developing this plan, but it it could have it could have uh uh fallen by the wayside. But the current administration came in, looked at the work done so far, the business community that was engaging with uh EDC to get this work done and the culture groups that were engaging with the culture division of EDC, the C in EDC um to get that done and said carry right on and uh and then uh then the the mayor and the administration uh further engaged in it to get it done so it could be adopted by council early in the first half of the term. term, but the this is a listing of how very far they've come in doing the work by being really targeted. Also could have been derailed again by by uh the White House. And yet uh we simply adapted. The mayor uh asked the division to pivot a little bit so that there was a a specific uh uh addressing of of tariffs to again engage business in it to make sure that the 10-year plan could align with the kinds of uh immediate measures we needed to take. Those are all listed here as well. This is a real achievement from a division that that does its best to grant out funds to make sure there were animated the organizations out there and uh uh does its best to roll up its sleeves and find the efficiencies when we when we put pressure on them which is exactly what happened uh for this budget year. Um they're doing a lot with a little uh and I just want to thank them all because I you know in my travels it's it's not just Mr. Tobin who answers questions on their behalf. But I I'll go somewhere and a food business will say, "We just love and rely on Eric Wood." I'll meet with a a business and they'll say, "Mr. Aldardise has been so helpful. We just love Miss Barnett. We love Susanna Vass at Tech Week." The the whole division is so uh animated throughout the community. I I have to say they're not in this building. They're out there in our our economy doing exactly what they're supposed to do, which is driving Toronto's economy. And I really just wanted to take this opportunity to thank them for their work in this term. Thanks, Madam Chair. >> Thank you. Any other speakers? Oh, sorry. I I apologize, Councelor Shan. I'd already said you were number two. Go ahead, please. >> Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um I had uh raised them as questions at different points as well. Just wanted to first thank the staff for the update and the work that they're doing. Um I think uh couple of points that were made earlier is critical to reinforce. I think uh you know we had conversations about BIA uh the model uh it's great to see there's an emphasis to expand and expanding those things to scarabro would probably need a lot more dedicated focus and support and uh energy incubation and so on because I know out of 80 something there's about five or or six maybe now in in scar bro uh that are bas so it is fairly um disproportionately low and um even We saw the last uh item on the agenda which is about festivals and grants and so on and a number of BAS were able to uh uh take advantage of those opportunities in that uh in that grants the list and the reason I say that is that these structures then kind of add more resources and they're helpful. We are working as counselors in Scarra I'm working on two of them on in my ward right now but it is a it is a challenge. Um that's why I want to emphasize there might be alternative models to BIA as well that could be explored uh that needs to be seriously considered for example in some place based approaches uh ethnospaccific geographical ethnospaccific support might be a model like for example Filipino community chamber of commerce has a tono chapter maybe a scabro chapter uh is an option maybe a chapter of uh you know restaurants in in northeast um scabro uh for example uh or Lawrence Avenue. I know we have a BIA, but maybe maybe it's a different way of thinking about uh supporting businesses because these are at the end of the day businesses in in Toronto in Scar Bro. So, if there's a possibility to to explore different models and methods and and then incorporate that quickly into this plan. This is a 10-year plan, so we don't want to wait to review it after 10 years. A lot of economic opportunity would be lost in that. So if there was a a bit of a rethinking around how we support um businesses, how we support uh restaurants for example and I gave an example of intellicious for example 250 plus restaurants participating and I think I heard five of them are from scar bro. So some of these models are great they they they help uh but some of them are not applicable or or at least not structured in a way that engages and supports uh the small businesses in in Scar Bro. And in order for us to do that instead of trying to apply some of the existing models uh to to work in these areas uh there might be uh some risk-taking quote unquote it's not a significant risk takingaking in in trying to explore different models and I know uh there's at least 20 different chambers of commerce that are geograph based but also are ethnospace communities and when you bring them together the collective amount of businesses represented through them would be uh a significant ificant uh number of businesses that could be brought in. And then just to go on the on the plaza related stuff again there are incentives that we can offer to plazas to be useful and used. Uh but as uh deputy mayor Malik mentioned there's multiple factors including some uh feels like intentionally left uh unused and and so maybe maybe there's a way for us to figure out a mechanism that can help to revitalize some of these areas. And we we can give examples of probably 20 different spots in Scar Bro that have significant type of uh gap in terms of uh retail spaces as well. So um just to reiterate and I could have asked these in the form of questions but I know that these the staff are working on these but just the urgency of getting these things done and incorporated as a significant part of this plan uh would be helpful for scar bro businesses. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any other speakers on this? Councelor Canderville. >> Uh thank you, Chair. Um to to pick up from where councelor Shan left and uh the um uh responses from staff. Appreciate that that this is both not just an economic but also a cultural uh component of of many many neighborhoods in our suburbs. Um and at the root of it is the need to have effective planning tools to preserve the vital uh and vibrant plazas that that provide so much for uh in many cases immigrant communities but small business entrepreneurs in general that create um uh that vibrancy but also intrinsic to to Toronto's identity. We we say diversity is our strength. Um here's a a core place that intersects planning, development, review, uh economic and comm cultural development uh in a very um specific way. I'm looking forward to the work that's coming through planning specifically uh to create the tools and the wherewithal to preserve these these very vibrant spaces. Um and as as some development happens that is around transit that does certainly necessitate us to see um density around high order transit in many parts of our suburbs the reality of these the those that are vibrant and vital are predicated around the car and I think that's central to understanding um the value of these plazas and strip malls and I could really only speak to to Scarough's experience erience is the reality for many small businesses if they're restaurant tours or or whatnot. Uh the reality is people pull up into these strip plazas to their car. So I think uh part and central to the the planning um uh review of of this obviously sensitive and layered idea uh requires us to understand the reality of um I I feel dependency is not the right word but moreover the uh the reality the vehicle the car automobile provides to many families. amilies and customers that partake in the success and contribute to the financial um and fiscal viability of strip plazas needs to be understood. Um that for many small businesses the two things the lack of parking or accessible parking and number two the change in the rents to that caters to more corporate um businesses like franchises uh really changes the dynamic and culture from going from traditionally small business independently owned u places to uh to to corporate franch franchises, I think, is is part of the the bigger discussion that we hear and often see in Toronto's uh the discourse around Toronto. What Toronto was 25 years ago to now, I think u that's not unique to any region or district in our city, but throughout is is this corporatization. So I think uh as planning has rightfully done look to uh enshrine um uh the culture and economic development as part of good planning uh development review. I think ultimately we need the policy planning tools uh from PHC to give the teeth um as we um proceed with uh the growth of our city. And I'll con I'll leave it at and as we're all versed with the reality of the market the the real estate market right now what we've seen is many plazas the ownership sitting on de on on on rights but but not moving on development which creates uncertainty with the existing clientele in in these strip plazas. that that um gives anxiety to to the the future uh viability because that's that uncertainty prevents them from making the investments to put in deeper roots in that community in that plaza. So, uh, I think that's an important perspective. Um, and the longterm impact that the decisions we make both here at PHC and at community councils have on these small business um, entrepreneurs and hence the value of the work that's coming uh to PHC. Thank you, chair. >> Thank you. Uh, councelor Moyes to speak. >> Yeah, I'll be very brief. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um I'm happy Pat to mentioned Plaza Pops. Um you know I know that file intimately. I worked with uh um Jennifer and Brandon uh professor researchers from G University on Plaza Pops and uh we actually took a trip to uh Copenhagen two years ago and highlighted Plaza Pops and the benefits of it. And so I'm happy to see that uh it's still being implemented not only in Scarbo but in Tobico and elsewhere in the city and we replicated across the country as well. Uh again to councelor Cannibville's point uh Plaza Pops were placed in in communities where uh new immigrants didn't really have a opportunity to integrate and socialize with their communities and Plaza Pops allows them to come out onto the strip plazas and actually in interact with uh their neighbors and there's been a lot of research around that and and and uh it's been great uh initially also too I really think that BAS are such an important part of of this file. Uh I have six BAS in my ward and they're all very vibrant and so very supportive of local businesses and I'm happy to see that uh the plan here is to actually increase BAS across the city. Um there's value in that and so I I I really support that aspect of the um of the file here. And lastly, the indigenous piece. We can't we can't forget that, you know, since I've been a counselor, that's something that I've been really front and center in supporting the indigenous community on. Uh the indigenous center for innovation and entrepreneurship is actually in my ward over at um um Dundas and Parliament. So, we're waiting with a waited breath for that to finally open. I know the entire indigenous community is looking forward to that and so whatever steps need to be taken let's make sure that that happens sooner rather than later. Thank you very much. >> Any other speakers on this? Okay. I will just uh speak to um I want to credit economic development staff for the excellent work that's come forward. Um as uh the vice chair uh Carol who championed this work um has indicated this has been a long um an exhaustive effort with significant consultation to generate this plan um to be ready for uh threats and opportunities. Um, and as the vice chair said, uh, uh, Mayor Chow's really, um, sunk her teeth into this, and it's good news, um, to have a plan to adapt. We've faced in Canada and, uh, Toronto has not been exempt, uh, a significant threat from our neighbor to the south. Um, but we are moving through it and I think that's terrific. Um, the updates uh, bring good news. So many of the directives, the directions, uh the priorities are being acted on and as um councelor Moyes said, the important work um to strengthen to find a way to do uh real um procurement u um from indigenous owned u uh businesses and organizations is something that's going to be transformative and I think gives real material life to our reconciliation action plan. Uh so congratulations to for all of the work um on that. Uh we all look forward to it. Uh this came forward in the same year as the culture plan as well and so we recognize the importance of culture and cultural workers and um it also came uh with the direction to create an inclusive economic development plan and we adopted it uh at the last meeting. Uh so it will be reporting uh every time the action plan for Toronto's economy reports and now we have um indicators to show not only that the pie is growing uh but that the share of whether or not the share of uh the wealth is going to be in community and is reducing inequality economic inequality. Uh the plan also is crucial for clarifying the city's position on land use. Uh one of the most important things that we do um at the municipal level is land use planning and the strategic centering of the protection of employment lens amounts to ensuring that we are able to uh protect the sectors where jobs are and jobs may come uh for example the film industry but much more uh we if we are to move beyond only being uh branch plant to the US economy and have more trading partners and if we're able to protect our own future for example by being able to uh produce medicines or vaccinations and when there's a pandemic we will be in a better position. So this is really the jobs belt and it I think sends very important directives to council about the the conversion of of um employment lands and the priority to protect them so that we never continue to dip again what much below the 15% threshold which we understand uh from staff is what we need. So, I think this is excellent news, excellent work from staff. Um, and thank you to the vice chair Carol for all of her work on that and the mayor's office for all the support. I think we have good news today um about how Toronto is positioning itself, its uh residents, the businesses that are based here, and all of the workers that rely on uh this economy to live a good life. Uh I will also be supporting uh uh councelor Chang's motion moved by the vice chair. I think it sets us up for important conversations about an aspect of the economy that we need to get a real handle on which is our data which is um um code um commodified and used um and can be uh a real source of of economic uh value uh with the appropriate social um guard rails and governance guardrails. So this is great a a great day I think for Toronto and um I look forward to the adoption of this report. >> Can I make a correction? The indigenous center for innovation and entrepreneurship entrepreneurship is actually on Dundas at Jarvis not parliament. >> No uh that is a a very short block uh a number of blocks. So we will forgive that and um I appreciate that uh you are so uh knowledgeable about the home addresses of you uh your award has so many organizations. So thank you for that. Uh so uh on the on the motion uh moved by councelor Carol just going to wait to display that. All in favor oppose that's carried and on the item as amended. All in favor oppose that is carried. And now we are going to move on to EC28 uh.4 2027 shelter infrastructure plan. Uh we have two speakers on the item and the first speaker is Andreas uh Kojanides and welcome to committee. not online. Okay, we're going to go to our second speaker and then we can call the first speaker once we're done. The second speaker is Daniel Tate. Welcome to committee. >> You have five minutes. >> Good morning. Uh some quick fast facts about Toronto Shelter and Support Services. The 2023 budget was 707 million, 2024 787, 2025 898 million and 2026 $786 million. The to I don't know where the chair is going. Uh total 4-year operating budget is $3.2 billion over the last four years for Toronto Shelter and Support Services. a multi-billion dollar year-over-year division. Uh, with that kind of money, you would think we would have solved homelessness by now, but no, it's getting worse. Just take a look outside. I'm not saying there is a profit motive at play here, even though a myriad of companies enjoy lucrative contracts to keep the homeless industry alive. Because if homelessness dried up tomorrow, so would the neverending trough of taxpayer money. So would your jobs. So what exactly is the success criteria? For example, taxpayers were mortified to learn that the people in this room awarded $300 million of our money in sole source contracts alone. No competition, no price comparisons, no accountability. Of note, the TTC bureaucracy of note, the TSS bureaucracy is also one of the biggest at the city, employing over 1,500 people. If TSS was a private sector corporation, it would be similarly sized to companies like Indigo, Crocs, and GoPro. Now, on to the shelter infrastructure plan. The report says we have 20 new shelters coming online representing 1,600 beds. That's 80 beds per shelter. Total capital cost $675 million. That's $421,875 per bed. I repeat, $421,875 per bed. More expensive than market housing. Where is this $675 million coming from? Is it coming from debt? And if so, what is the cost of borrowing on that debt? And what is the repayment plan? Regarding operations, I see there's three streams of operators, general, black, and indigenous. Why are seniors and women being lumped into the general stream? Do they not have unique needs? Also, why is there no shelter stream for the most important group of all, the drugaddicted? Shouldn't they be in a separate, highly secure environment away from those who are not actively abusing fentinel, meth, or crack with their cityisssued supplies? And maybe those who are not using drugs want to feel safe in the city's shelter system. Many do not. Regarding the design, I see these new shelters will follow the shelter design and technical guidelines guide which calls for, and I quote, anti-heteronormative design, including gender genderneutral washrooms. Who thought it was a good idea to mix vulnerable men and women into the same genderneutral space? Maybe women would appreciate the security of gendered bathrooms. Now, regarding harm reduction, according to your shelter design document, harm reduction supplies and supports should be quote readily available and easily accessible. Does that mean someone who's does that mean someone will be going to bed in the morning handing out crack pipes, needles, and tourniquets like Cheerios? Will you have advanced fire sprinklers for when a fentanyl user lights up their blowtorrch for a morning smoke? I see exactly zero references to abstinence, drug detox, or rehab in any of the shelter documents. The drug dealers are going to have a field day. Who's going to explain to the parents of all the nearby daycare centers, parks, and schools that their children will be playing mere meters away from shelters that are handing out meth pipes like candy? Will Mr. Tanner write the statement when someone inevitably gets injured or killed, or will that be delegated to staff? The bottom line is TSS and its shelter plan is one of the biggest line items in the city's budget, has consumed billions of taxpayer money, has demonstrated no success criteria in solving homelessness, enriches a vast matrix of people and companies, and makes not a single me mention of the predominant factor that causes homelessness in the first place, drug addiction. So the question remains, are we getting value for money for this multi-billion dollar city division? Thank you. >> Uh thank you for your time. Are there any questions of the deputent? Uh seeing none, we'll call the first deputent on the list one more time. Andreas Kenanites, still not online. Um are there any questions of staff on this item? Uh, councelor Canderville and um oh oh sorry we're going to go to visiting um councelor Holiday first. Please go ahead councelor Holiday. >> Thank you Madam Chair. Um my question to staff is can you just confirm that you're partway through the process or the list of sighting shelters? I think uh there are 20 on the plan and you're partway through it right now. Is that correct >> to you chair? That's correct. We've uh cited 11 of the 20 shelters to date. >> Mr. Tenny, can you tell me a little bit about how you choose the location and what criteria do you use? >> Uh so T chair, I'll I'll pass this to our real estate colleagues. Uh if you don't mind to answer the question >> to you, Madam Speaker, and to uh councelor Holly, it's Pat Mtoso. uh councelor uh first and foremost we work with TSS to determine what their program requirements are with respect to location um uh bus service what uh type of services will be in the area and based on that criteria we will work with uh brokers in the city and our own staff to find locations that suit the program needs >> Mr. Moso. So, there's two parts I think to what I heard from you. One half has to do with what goes inside the shelter and I think I understand that as program requirements. >> That is correct. >> Second, the second thing you asked or mentioned and I'd like to ask about is what's in the area and can you tell me a little bit about the specifications that come forward about the area around the shelter that drives the selection of the real estate site? to uh uh madam chair to councelor hall that that's really driven by TSS in terms of um they're looking for other services and salary services to actually support the shelter. It's not necessarily on from a location perspective. We're looking for transportation and things of that nature to make it easy to get to the shelter. But in terms of specific services that are complimentary to the shelter, that would be shelter to respond to. Thank you. That that is what I'm interested in. If someone could elaborate on that, please. >> Yes. So, uh to you, Chair, uh Gourd here from Toronto Shelter and Support Services. Um when we're looking at this, uh capital plan for 20 new shelters. Part of the part of the goal is to locate these facilities right across neighborhoods throughout Toronto. Uh they are zoned a residential purpose. So we are looking predominantly in residential uh neighborhoods throughout the city uh for where we site the locations. Um as was mentioned, transportation is very key so that individuals using the site can access transit to get to a whole range of different uh community services and and other supports. Uh and we will bring a a range of of supports directly into the shelter. uh for example access to primary care, mental health supports and other things as well. >> So I want to go a little further on what you said. Um you said that you look for residential areas. I think everyone understands that those are prevalent across the city as is the transit network. But does TSS um go a little deeper and look at the amenities that are available in the neighborhoods? And amenities is a broad term. They could be public amenities such as parks, schools, community centers, but they could be simple everyday things that represent a basket of services that whether you're in a shelter or in another residence in the neighborhood, you need as a human being. Uh so, you know, that could be shopping, that could be professional services, medical, etc. And especially uh services that would be uh of higher importance to the people living in the shelter. Is there a planning matrix or a list that is used and can you elaborate on that or does the city not do that and just find sites wherever they get them? >> Uh so to you chair uh with respect to the 11 sites that are before us in this report and that we're reporting out on um you know they we landed on those after a a pretty extensive search across the city of more than 300 properties. There is not, to answer your question, a matrix that we would score a particular property on by virtue of its uh proximity to a range of other social supports, libraries, community centers, etc. Um, as as mentioned, you know, we bring uh all of the wraparound supports into these locations, whether it's nutrition, whether it's support, whether it's healthcare. Uh the goal really is to have people move through these services as quickly as possible and into permanent housing. So transit is a key key aspect here. >> Thank you. Uh questions of staff. Councelor Kennel. >> Uh can staff um outline what success looks like under this uh program? Uh so to you chair the the project was established to uh site 20 new shelters up to 1,600 beds across our system to allow the city to exit very large shelter hotel programs that were established many of which were established during the pandemic. So there is a cost factor here that is significant once fully >> sorry I should have been more specific in terms of once the shelter's been built and implemented. So, a a successful shelter uh seeks to have individuals move through its doors uh from experiencing homelessness at the front end and once they're leaving uh within a reasonable amount of time into permanent housing with supports where they can be successful. Uh we want to see high quality uh standards. So, the programs need to adhere to our Toronto shelter standards which are are published and available widely. uh and we want these sites to be good neighbors to the communities in in which they are cited. >> So the experience by the community the neighbors as part of the success of of how we define it. >> That's correct. Um and in regards to the clientele selection for the shelters, can you explain the selection process and the criteria used by staff to select um family at Buttonwood mixed adult at Gerard? What was the criteria in clientele selection? So, first off, we we look at the population we have in these in these shelter hotel programs and we need to be building to match uh the priority populations that we serve. So, predominantly, you know, we're looking at uh majority of folks in our shelter system are adults um men, women folks who are trans uh and uh those are the folks that primarily we are are are housing in in the programs. There might be a built form. So example at Buttonwood as you mentioned was a a built form that lends itself to support families. Uh so that is a family program going >> but isn't that contingent on the design and layout of the shelter that we decide? >> You're right. If if we are planning for a mixed adult population as we are at 2535 Gerard uh we are designing the building uh appropriately to meet the needs of that adult population. >> So perhaps I didn't articulate the question. How did you decide which clientele goes to which shelter? So like why did uh Young and Shepherd get indigenous women versus um youth at Duffren Street? How did you match a clientele to a shelter? Uh so to you chair, you know, with this project, we need for the most part adult beds across the system. uh and and that is that will be the majority of programs that we open. Uh we look at each one of these locations. We run an expression of interest for shelter operators and match a shelter operator to a site. Again, in the case of the Gerard site in your in your ward, we have a Warden Woods uh selected to operate a adult program for adults. >> I'm sorry to interrupt. Just to get a clear answer, is there a criteria or matrix that matches site to clientele? If there is a one, that that's fine. I just want to get clarity on that. >> To your chair, no, I wouldn't say there's a matrix to to extrapolate uh population to particular shelter site. We know the population we're serving in the shelter hotels, again, which we're trying to exit, is for the most part adults of all genders. So as part of council's delegated authority um was that selection criteria uh indicated to be arbitrary at the discretion of staff in terms of matching clientele to site to you chair. Uh I don't believe it's part of the delegated authority. This is an operational decision that's made to match the demand for people who are homeless to the shelter programs that we are building and that is what uh we're doing in this case. >> Mhm. Um to to build on that as part of that operational um piece is that at the discretion of staff to select the clientele >> to the chair that is what we have done with respect to the sites that have been uh brought before you in this annual report. Mhm. Is there any publicly available material that uh demonstrates the thinking of staff in their decision to match clientele? >> Last question. >> Uh so to you chair, you know, on a daily basis, we publish our shelter occupancy numbers. They would dictate every day that the majority of people that we see in the shelter system are adults. The majority of people we're trying to decamp from shelter hotels are adults of all genders and that will be the basis upon which we open the majority of these shelters. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh councelor Moyes questions of staff. >> Uh thank you and thank you Madam Chair. Um I know we're talking about shelter infrastructure and if my questions are not on the topic please let me know. So since the pandemic, we had a lot of hotel uh shelters in the city and I believe you've taken tremendous steps to actually reduce that. Can you maybe elaborate a little bit about that as well and also talk about maybe about the um refugee in our shelters and how we've had had to go through the process of you know at one point you're 53% of the people in the in our shelters were refugees and asylum seekers and perhaps where we are today and how this how it's how it's is now now >> uh so to you chair uh in the pandemic. Uh the city moved very quickly, frankly, to to save lives and achieve physical distancing across the shelter system. Uh we moved thousands of people into what were at the time empty buildings uh and and leased those buildings. At its height, we had 29 properties across the city. Coming out of the pandemic and borders reopened, uh we saw tens of thousands of refugee climates arriving in Toronto in need of immediate shelter. Uh we trans transition some of the locations by population from serving um you know others to refugee claimments over that period. Um we are now in a in a place where we're contracting the system. We're down to 16 of those 29 properties um with the plan to close uh two more this year. and homelessness in our city. Do you find that is on the decline as a result of um our efforts? Maybe you can speak to perhaps I just saw when I read this I think there's we housed 5,000 people in 2025. >> So to you chair, we housed about 4750 people directly from the shelter system, another 360 people directly from the street. Um we've included in this report an update on the total um number of people experiencing homelessness in the city. So from October 24 to October 25 we've seen a drop of about 21%. Uh again that's um most directly connected to the number of people leaving shelters and moving into permanent housing. >> Any year would you consider that to be a success? >> T chair this is a this is a successful um metric for us. something that we track very closely uh and and will continue to do so throughout this year into next. And I know sometimes in Toronto we kind of live in the bubble uh you know Toronto centric but homelessness is this unique to Toronto or is it across the province the country and I sit on FCM and on AMO I go into various communities across the country and all the council and the mayors I speak to talk to me about the increase in homelessness in their small communities. Can you maybe talk about that a little bit? So to you chair uh there are a series of studies um one done by the uh association of municipalities of Ontario recently on the increasing number of people experiencing homeless across communities rural urban uh in the province. Um I I'm happy to report that our numbers are actually moving in a different direction uh as opposed to that trend. But you're right, this is an issue that is uh across the province and and right across the country that uh is a priority for most civic governments um and leaders. >> And just one final question, do you find that other municipalities who are struggling are looking to Toronto for some guidance as to how we're dealing with our uh situation here? to you chair. We are in touch with many other jurisdictions about the work that's happening in Toronto and uh take those opportunities to share what's working. We're also often looking uh at other innovative solutions and and programs elsewhere to replicate here in the city as well. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Questions of staff. Councelor Carol. >> Uh yes. I want to go back to the concept of what does success look like? because I think uh I think we have a tendency to just look at the last couple of years but we actually had an idea of success for this infrastructure plan. We actually have to go back pre- pandemic. We had goals to change the way we serve people all the way back in 2017 when we adopted the first iteration of this plan. We're still trying to get to those measures of sex success. Are we not moving out of the large congregated shelters? We we we decided on a new sort of maximum amount based on on um what we know about the whole uh industry sector of of sheltering. Uh we're still trying to achieve those goals as well. Am I right? >> Uh to the chair, you're right, counselor. >> Okay. So it's uh it's it's about if we go back to those times it's it's about getting out of having everybody congregated in one large place you know the old seatan uh uh street model where we were also uh cognizant of too many of the city's homeless congregated in in two wards is do we still have that situation where there are two downtown wards housing what is it 70% of all the homeless people. >> Uh so to to the chair uh still we see a concentration of these services in the downtown core. Part of the council direction on on this project was to uh seek and open new facilities right across communities in Toronto to better support people in their local community if they experienced homelessness. >> Right. And so we we set those goals way back in 2017. But now we have to add to that uh an increased number of homeless which is as councelor Moyes points out proportional to what's happening across the country and indeed around the globe. Uh so we have have an increased number. Uh we also have the added challenge of having having moved some into hotels, we now have to in a in a humane way and and by building out the infrastructure plan get out of those hotels especially where they're too large. So we those are layered on top of our 2017 goals. Am I right >> to you chair? That's correct. But meeting them all takes us to what was our original intent to make smaller, more neighborhood, easier to serve, better to do the quality case management that gets people moving on to housing. We still have those goals. We've just layered on getting out of our our COVID situation as well. But we still want to be spread out a little further across the city where where there's a there's a an opportunity to access schools for for the family shelters, an opportunity to be living in a in a good neighborhood setting and so on and so forth. I'm right about that >> to you, chair. That's that's correct. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Thanks, Madam Chair. >> Thank you. Other questions of staff? I I have um a couple of questions. So going back to um to uh the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, is it um accurate to say that while the estimation in that report that you mentioned was 80,000 people homeless in Ontario, the warning from AMO was that if we didn't do something within 10 years, that number would go to 300,000. >> Chair, that's correct. That's the report I was quoting. >> And that's indicative of the trend across municipalities. That's correct. >> Okay. So, can you um put us in the picture then of where we are um today on on homelessness? I know that we do a point in time survey which we rely on in the federal government mandates. Um and can you compare for example 2025 to 2024 in terms of numbers of where we are um around homelessness? So to you, chair, the uh point in time assessment required by the federal government uh saw us have 12,196 people experiencing homelessness in 2025 and in 2024, October same month, 15,418. So, we've seen a 21% uh decrease and that includes people in our shelter system, estimates of the number of people living outdoors uh and folks that are in proincially uh run systems, corrections, health care, treatment centers, etc. >> Wow. 21% decrease uh breaking the trend that is being experienced across municipalities in Ontario. Can you uh put us in the picture of where we are in terms of the numbers of people in encampments, the numbers of encampments across the city and uh um how that might compare not just to uh recent years but a trend over time over a number of years. So to you, chair and and as a result of tremendous interdivisional coordination with our colleagues in parks, transportation, solid waste, and and other places, uh we were tracking over 500 encampments in the fall of 2024. Uh and as of today, we're sitting in around 85. Um so, you know, tremendous outcome from a lot of uh very collaborative work across the city and with our community partners. It's it's actually staggering uh success and I think for anyone of us who have had encampments and I think it's and every single counselor would know that um it's been it's been very important uh to communities. um in terms of where we are uh in terms of where the population um homelessness is increasing uh is it accurate to say that uh the it's not in the old city of Toronto right now but outside of the old city of Toronto and can you comment specifically which areas of the city are experiencing the um increases in homelessness? So, T chair, in the in the 2025 October um count, uh our outreach teams estimated that we were seeing increases in outdoor homelessness in Atobbico, York uh and in North York. Um and so those were two two areas of of uh focus. >> So these are this is where people are becoming homeless increasingly. gets out. That's an important thing to remember uh in terms of um where services are needed in terms of the uh the question about your your mandate and your measure of success is we in terms of uh is to is to offer the home the shelter services that allow people to get back inside. Would it be accurate to say that today the success that we're experiencing with the 21% decline in the numbers of people who are homeless in a point in time survey the the the just staggering uh reduction in um encampments that more is being done in the city to prevent homelessness through uh evction eviction prevention, the rent bank, um more support for tenants to understand their rights, the rent eviction bylaw, etc. the uh the work that you're doing uh within the uh Toronto shelter uh services and supports to improve shelters and uh move people uh more quickly through them uh and finding more success and then the 5,000 um units of housing that people were able to enter for a permanent home. Is this what success looks like in the city of Toronto? >> So to chair, you know, those are all metrics that demonstrate success that we're experiencing. Uh but I there's more work to do. Um but these learnings I think we need to unpack and understand what's working well uh and do more of what's working well to keep the momentum of people leaving homelessness and getting into housing with support. >> And I'll sneak in one last question um under the wire. Uh in terms of the one of the deputies spoke about um um referenced health care needs, mental health needs and addictions recovery needs. Is health care and all of this suite of services that involves mental health and addiction recovery is that actually a municipal responsibility or would that be the purview of the ministry of health at the provincial government? >> Uh so to chair those are provincial jurisdictions >> right so hopefully people will go and speak to the province. Thank you. Um, so, uh, now that we're done speaking on the item, uh, oh, sorry, I should have gone I didn't see your hand. Councelor Holidayiday. You should have spoken first. >> Well, I can go again for questions, but I would like to speak. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I thankful for the opportunity to come before the committee. Um many committee members would know that uh there is a shelter at 3838 Blure in Atobico Center and I want to report to you that it has not gone well. Uh the shelter was announced uh almost a year ago and it takes some time for word to spread through the community and recently we had a meeting to discuss planning changes uh a public meeting and that was a flash point and it goes back to a lot of the questions that I asked at the beginning of this item about how the city explains choices that it made to citing a shelter and whether or not it looks at what's available within the neighborhood. As many people know in real estate, location, location, location is everything. And if the people that are going to be living in the shelter are the most vulnerable, face the most barriers, and have the least amount of mobility in the city, then they need to be close to things that are important to them uh during the day and all day long. Otherwise, it simply pl becomes a place to go and sleep. And um Mr. Tanner did say accurately that, you know, the city does bring in a lot of services to um look after the people in the shelters, but then it starts to become a self-contained building. And if you expect the community to accept something like that rather than something integrated, if you have a process that tells them instead of asks them, I think you set up for conflict right from day one. And that's what I've I've observed. And I urge this committee because this item is within your control that there are opportunities for improvement through all of this process. In cases where the city has to redevelop the site, uh, for instance, make a bigger building or construct something, why would you not want to talk to the community as you would with any sort of process? And it puts the city in a conflict if we're both the developers. In other words, we've purchased a site and have a financial interest. Then why would the community trust us to also be the decision makers? You know, city council uh took a tact to delegate certain authorities to staff. There's nothing that says that staff can't go out and consult. In fact, we don't want them to run a muck and just do things as they as they choose. they have to involve a process and we as council despite a delegation uh do not escape accountability in these matters and that's why these are so important and that's why I continue to hear from people that many who may have different views about how the city approaches the shelter system and some may even agree with the shelter infrastructure plan still aren't confident in the city's choice at the particular location at 3838 Blure uh because of other concerns that they have about the site One thing that came up in today's conversation and I'm really glad that it did but I'd offer a different lens is what success looks like and I think this has come up in uh the meetings and the discussions with the community about 3838 bluer. Now, some of the conversation of the committee has been macro in nature about what success looks like for the shelter system, but I would suggest you cast your gaze to the actual site level and uh request that conversations be had with the community about what a successful shelter is. Yes. Uh successful shelters um look after the clients or the residents that live within them and look after their needs, but also they create an opportunity for people to move through the shelter system and move to more stable housing and make changes in their life that result in a more stable situation. Those are definitely measurable and those are things that can be conveyed to the public uh about what the shelter does and how we know it's working well. There are also success factors about the particular site and whether or not the shelter is operating well and is being managed well and all of those create transparency which is something that has been lacking in all of this system. I think these things are very easy to fix. We just have to have the political will to do so. But you know if you have anyone whether it's the city or an operator managing one of these sites over the long term and we have 20 of them. We should define what success looks like and how we're going to measure it. Because as we've heard many times over, managing these contracts and managing these services from a council point of view and an accountability point of view is essential and I hope that the committee will think about that and I appreciate the opportunity to provide these observations to you. >> Thank you councelor to speak councelor Candville. Uh thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank uh the work uh by by staff for throughout this process. Uh it's it's obviously incredibly difficult hard work with tremendous number of layers, sensitivity, working with, you know, a very um I guess problematic hotel strategy and that transition. Uh there's absolutely no question, let me be clear as many of us have been, there is absolutely no question. Building more shelters is imperative and building them throughout our city is imperative. That that is incredibly clear. And um in my ward, we're very attuned to these sensitivities. In fact, Scarbor Southwest has the most shelters of any suburban ward. We have two men shelters, two youth, um one supporting housing which um you know has folks that are uh leaving uh addiction, if that's the right word. Uh this December, we're proud to open Ontario's first and Canada's second home for indigenous women called the Thunder Women Healing Lodge for women leaving incarceration. Uh we've got tremendous experience um with uh seeing success um the and and which is critical to to not just obviously the community but to the future clients and and us as as a city. uh and part of that is ensuring there's consultation and the incorporation of it uh that determines the success and failure and um and you know part of this conversation is is it's imperative that we don't fall into a binary or a polarized discussion on um how we find success. uh that we need to understand that we could be doing certain things right like site selection but we're seeing gaps in how client selection for example is happening or not happening and that was very clear um in today's discussion that there isn't a prescribed criteria set of uh decision matrix that matches the right client with the right site um and that's concerning and the examples I referenced in my question um didn't get the appropriate context. For example, why councelor Chang's ward at Young and Sheepard has an indigenous women's shelter when arguably it would make more sense in my ward being very close to the opening of the Thunder Women's Healing Lodge. There's ability to create synergy between matching sites. Um the fact that certain sites are closer to higher order transit, more amenity, more health care services, uh would necessitate a clientele that requires higher needs to be closer to services and amenities that can match those needs. And that's the concerning aspect of this report. Um and where we need to do more work. This is hard work as I stated and shared at the start that there has to be more clear criteria that ma that explains the rationale behind decisions that match a clientele whether it's youth, family, seniors, mixed adult to a certain site. And in the absence of that criteria criteria and clarity we one can only conclude that it's arbitrary and this is a gap in our system and the purpose of committee and the work we do here is to improve our system. The goals were unanimous and there is consensus on to build more shelters across our city. It's the how that requires us to be diligent to refuse to go into polarized camps on how this proceeds and to review our assumptions into how these decisions are being made and and that's the certain concern. Um coming back to the shelter of mixed adults in my ward um there's you know without going into detail uh a daycare and uh a cafe that's within walking distance. And this is why I implore that we develop a necessary set of criteria that makes it very simple for citizens, neighbors, clients themselves, and service providers to the context and rationale for why and how clients are matched to certain sites. Um, and to close, I'd like to again thank the the hard work uh from all those involved to to move this forward. uh but we need to recognize uh the gaps in how we present our decisions to the public and to the communities that uh will be hosting uh these shelters. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thank you. Any other speakers? I will uh briefly say that um one element that I think we um are need to highlight here in terms of uh the public interest is that this uh capital plan is about value for money in many ways. It's value for money for people who are homeless and are going to have better life outcomes. And we're definitely seeing uh that that's the goal with new units of housing coming on stream for people to be housing ready, supported, employment supports, um with all of the the um enabling conditions so that they can have a good life in the city of Toronto. It's value for money for the Toronto taxpayer. We're reducing the cost of sheltering people and it's value for money to have people inside uh because it's the only way that people uh will be well. The number one prescription for any ailment in society is a roof over your head. And this is what we're doing in the city of Toronto. Preventing homelessness uh in providing better uh suitable uh scoped shelters that have an intentional population that's being served. Um the population will be spread across the city uh and it nestled within neighborhoods and communities because everybody needs access to transit, a local library, uh a place to settle in uh before moving into a permanent home. We would love to get out of the business of uh having um Canada's largest shelter system. Uh but while we have uh the failures of 30 years of a lack of real investment in building affordable housing, we are contending in the best possible way here in the city of Toronto and being uh approached by municipalities not just in Canada, but there's interests grow globally in the work that's being done here uh to uh meet the demand, meet the moment, meet the crisis, not by following the trend in which uh the homeless population increases And uh you've heard the Association of Municipalities of Ontario warned that if we don't do something if we didn't do something differently, we would be at 300,000 homeless people in Ontario from 80,000. But what this shelter division has done and what the systems that have been put in place through the housing secretariat on eviction uh prevention support, better shelters um and new units of affordable housing means that we are uh seeing success. a 21% reduction in homelessness in Toronto between uh 2024 and 2025 and a massive number of reductions in encampments. Uh so uh this is a a good news story and an opportunity for us to move ahead with plans to ensure that we're addressing uh one of the greatest social and economic threats for the population of the city of Toronto. On that on um I will move the item um vote to receive. All those in favor opposed. That's carried and we will move on to the next item which is EC28.5 early local registration expansion update and outcomes. And we have uh four speakers here. Um first I'll call Adam Rogers. >> Adam. >> Hi. Sorry. Uh mute is always an issue. Welcome to committee. Um, Adam, you have uh five minutes to speak. >> Perfect. I won't take five minutes. I just wanted to jump on here because you don't really get many opportunities to sing the praises of a certain program. So, I wanted to do that right now. Uh, so just uh I'll get get it right short and sweet. Um, so I'm a resident of Islington City Center West in south of Tobico. Uh and my my uh my child is a frequent l uh user of uh community programming at Islington Junior Middle School. Uh and I have to say that I think it's pretty much universal that all all folks in the community have uh greatly benefited from this early registration. I say um uh for my own uh daughter uh the uh the advantage to be able to have class uh have programming with kids in her own community um is a huge advantage. It really helps keep that uh community spirit uh which is already fostered very well at the school itself. there's a really strong push for community uh uh community uh nature as well as I can also I might as well uh shout out the uh Maybel arts uh uh group as well. Also there's been a big strong push in the the community Islington community for for these developments and I think this early this early registration is uh a part of that. Uh and uh so the only things I would mention is just uh it might be helpful for the staff to review uh if there's any need to target it target um in-person registration for seniors who might not have access to a computer or smartphone. I think most parents uh that I think that I interact with don't have necessary a problem uh doing this registration but that might be an area to think about. Uh and uh one other thing to think about is perhaps uh the um the organization uh the people running this can work partner with the Tdsb to send out surveys to confirm uh how maybe to confirm what the uptake is across socioeconomic brackets. uh you know if they do the these these surveys it can get maybe a little bit of data is are we fully t hitting what our targets are uh and last I just wanted to end off by uh singing the praises the team who run the programming at uh Islington Junior uh middle school they're they're all fantastic and uh they don't get enough uh praise so I just want since I'm I'm here I want to say they're great and I'm sure that's reflected on everyone in the programming across Toronto but I can only speak to the ones that I have direct access to and I I I'm really happy the city did this initiative. It's great to have that my daughter can continue to have uh classes with people that she knows and interacts with on a daily basis. Uh thank you. >> Thank you very much. Are there any questions of the deputent? No, I'm sure staff will pass on those props. Um we're going to go to the next speaker, Maryanne Scott. Is Maryannne Scott here? Oh, hi there. Uh thank you. Welcome to committee. You have five minutes to make sure you press the button and that it's green. >> There we go. It's green now. Thank you. Good morning everyone. So, my name is Marian Scott and I'm a part of Access Recreation. access to rearration initiated the need for property registration about eight years ago for our community in region park. Um when revitalization brought in new infrastructure which brought other communities using our free programs which took hundreds of spots of programming away from our children. With the implement with the imple with the implementation of early local registration across the city, it will allow equitable access for recreational programs for children and adults who have to use this free programming. Um, my family has benefited from parks and recreation programs since they were infants. All six of my children have been and still are involved in athletics and it's because of parks and recreation that this was possible. This is where their love of sport was born. Because of this, I have two children who play rugby at the national level. One is Charity Williams for team Canada. She's a three-time Olympian and a two-time medalist. And my other daughter is Faith Williams who plays for team Jamaica. Um, and I want to thank the people who are behind me. I'm not sure who they are, but whoever is involved um in making this happen, I want to thank you. Um I especially also want to thank Aiden who has been on this journey um with us for the past I would say between eight and nine years. Um he was the one person that weounded for a long time and um you know he worked with us in you know a lot of meetings and he um he believed in us and he believed in this dream that equitable access um needed to happen and it needed to happen in these um priority commun priority communities where we're seeing um you know revitalization is wonderful but with that you know brings these wonderful facilities and unfortunately people who don't necessarily need to use these facilities use them. So with this early registration um and I'm sure everyone knows how it works is these families can register up to 7 days prior to the registration opening up to the wider city. And this allows access. This allows our children to um get into the swimming lessons, to get into gymnastics, uh the soccer, you know, all the programs that are essential to um to raise and to build um healthy children and healthy parents. So um you know this is something that I know you know like I mean it might not be really important to a lot of people but I think if we look at you know how society's going how you know we have especially our young girls who aren't so much involved in sport this is opening up opportunities for them. It's opening up doors and um we have to look you know at the the future of of you know what's happening with our children um especially you know with the you know internet and social media it's so important that our children have access to sport and have access um to programming that that is that is needed. So I just want to thank everyone you know who's been involved in this fight. It's been a long long fight. Um and to see that we have you know all you know 37 or 38 recreation centers across the city that can um benefit from this you know early registration. I think it's important um and um you know please take this into consideration. Thank you. >> Thank you. Are there any questions of the deputent? Uh no. Thank you and and thank you for raising your voice on this early. Uh the next speaker is um Henny Henny Afra. Welcome to committee. You have five minutes when you're ready. >> Thank you. >> Uh make sure that the light is green uh on your microphone. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. >> Uh hi everyone, dear city council member. I'm here today to support the expand early registration access to access in our community. For nearly nine years, we advocated for access to recreational atrien park. Uh the reason we advocated is because in 2011 our uh aquatic center was builded and it attracted a lot of uh residents outside of the community because of beauty and also it was a free access for the whole Toronto. Um our community was not able to access it because of a lot of the people in the community were immigrant or lowincome family. they were not able to have um fast internet or able to um have electronics. So, we start lining up at Wellis Lake Community Center 2:00 a.m. in the morning and sometimes I line up 2:00 a.m. and I would not be able to get it. And because of my safety and my sometimes uh my kids would come with me just they wanted to support and experience that feeling of lining up. it was unsafe for no one and we start advocating in the community and came together and talked to Palm Okonnell um said this is what we dealing with uh our community center is built for the community but yet we feel Elliot like we're not using the center we'll see like people from outside the community with fancy cars coming to the aquatic center and using it and our kids don't know how to swim, how like to use the community because we're not able to access it. She listened to us. Um she said, "Okay, I'll do my best." And then after that, there was a Chris uh Crystal Wantan. So, we said the same thing to her. We said, "We're not able to use it because we don't have a fast computers. we don't have a lot of um a lot of electronics. Uh Chris was very like I was sitting here when I was and she was the one of the people that was looking straight of me and listening to me and I was just saying from the bottom of my heart. I'm a single mom. I have two that time I had two children that I was trying to register and she came to us to our group. listen everyone in the group and we told from our heart that this is what's happening. We're not able to use it and we only were able to use it Saturdays. P McConnell allow helped us to get women only and our kids were not safe in the water. They didn't know what to do. We didn't know what to do because we also learning how to swim. Like myself, I'm immigrant. Um I came here for better future. Um so we all struggling in Saturdays having fun but struggling in the water. Crystal one time said I'll do my best but I cannot promise anything. We came here we debuted and then after that we had Chris Moyes also we told him the same story again and they all listened to us and said we'll do the best we can. We'll never give up. But I always said, you know what, something will come out. I think that when Chris Moyes came, it was like we were advocating for six years. And then we got the pilot project finally. That was like amazing. The my kids were not in it because they were going to French emergent that time. I was like, what? My kids not going to be able to join >> and I was like, you know what? >> Other kids are inside. At least my kids are like I'm lining up 2:00 a.m. still getting my kids here and there. Um, they finished all levels, thank God. And my other kids, my 11year-old now, she's ultra six. She has a learning disabilities, but she loves water. And all she says when people says to her, you can't do this, you can't do, she says, I know how to swim better than you. So, it's it's really really good to see kids are really learning and they're in the swimming pool. The kids know each other. Like my kids used to feel they don't belong there because they would swim people who are privileged. But now my 11year-old swims with her grade level like her classmates. They see in the swimming now she goes by herself with her friends to deep end. I don't have to worry about them. So, it's really exciting to see that. So, thank you all. Chris Moyes, uh, Chris should not here. Olivia Chowo, I'm I'm happy what you did, but I wish that you guys expanded to other programs, not only swimming's camps, please. Um, and also for the Toronto, Greater Toronto. This is amazing. So, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Uh, questions of staff. Uh, we have, uh, I mean, sorry, question of the debut. Can you uh voice would like to ask you. >> Yeah. Hi. >> Thank you so much for coming in today to debut. >> Thank you. >> Really was a heartfelt remarks. Uh so do you feel that uh the early registration has actually improved in the last few years? >> It did improved a lot. So I don't have to line up 2 a.m. anymore. >> That's good. And is there any um recommendations for improvement on the program so far? >> Yes, please. I I just I was mentioning um like my kids now, thank God, they're good into swimming. My 5-year-old feels lovely in the swimming pool, but he wants to get into soccer. He wants to get into other programs, but we can't. So, if you can expand the program, that would be great. >> Good to noted. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Chris Moyes. >> Thank you. And the final speaker is Wid Kali Ali online. Welcome to committee. You have five minutes. >> Uh good morning folks. Uh just want to start off by thanking members of the access to recreation in the room, Honey, Sugar, and the previous speaker. Uh and just also reference uh something important uh related to the previous item with regards to the shelter system. Um, I hope that the city will pass a resolution to implement a moratorum on evictions from social counseling. >> You um I'm just going to pause your time. Um, you deputations are only for the item that's before us. >> I I understand that I'm just speaking to that, but it's connected. Um, so I wish for that to have happened uh because I think it had an impact on the shelter system. But I'm here to speak uh today in support of item uh 2026 28.5 which is the early local registration expansion update and outcomes. And I just want to again reiterate the years of advocacy from the grassroots group access to recreation uh which I'm a member of uh which has worked tirelessly to make local recreation programs more accessible uh equitable and responsive to the needs of families across Toronto. For years, one of the clearest and most urgent priorities raised by parents, caregivers, youth, and community advocates was the need of priority access to local registration programs. That goal is now reflected in what the city calls early registration. This is a meaningful step forward. Uh for many families, recreation is not a luxury. It's essential infrastructure. It supports physical health, mental health, youth development, community safety, social connection, and a sense of belonging. When children and youth have access to sports, arts, after school programs, leadership opportunities, and community programming, uh they are building confidence, friendship, skills, and healthier futures. Uh but for too long, access to these programs was not equal. Uh many parents could not get their children into programs because the registration system itself um created uh yeah um created barriers specifically families had who had flexible work schedules uh reliable internet credit card strong English language skills or the ability to sit online uh the moment registration opened were more likely to secure spots. Meanwhile, many workingclass families, newcomer families, black and racialized families, families living in Toronto community housing, families without stable internet access, and parents working shift jobs were often left behind. I've heard from parents who tried year after year to register their children only to find that programs were full within minutes. I've heard from caregivers who felt defeated before they even had a fair chance. And I've heard from families who felt the local that local community centers were not only truly accessible to the very residents they were meant to serve. That is why this uh important early local registration matters. It recognizes that fairness does not always mean uh treating everyone exactly the same. Sometimes fairness means removing barriers so that families who have historically been excluded have a real opportunity to participate. This initiatives gives local families a better chance to access local programs in their own neighborhood neighborhoods. It helps ensures that community centers reflect the the communities they are located in. It tells parents and children you belong here and that sense of belonging is powerful. When families see themselves reflected in their community spaces, trust grows. When children can participate in programs close to home, neighborhoods become stronger. When parents know their children have safe, positive, affordable activities, it reduces stress and supports family well-being. I want to commend city staff and council for moving this work forward. The implementation of early local registration is a direct response to years of community advocacy. But we also be honest, implementation is only the beginning. To know whether this program is truly reaching the families it was designed to support, the city must collect and report disagreed race-based and equity based data. We need to understand who's participating, who's still being left out, and where the barriers remain. That means collecting data on registration outcomes, weight lists, participation rates, neighborhood access, and the experiences of families facing systemic barriers. This should include uh not just race based data but income related indicators, disability, newcomer status where appropriate, language access, age, gender and geography where while respecting privacy and community trust. Without this data uh without this data we are left guessing. Um I just want to conclude by um referencing an important uh piece. Every child in the city deserves access to recreation regardless of their postal code, family income, race, race, immigration status, language, and whether their parents can refresh a web page at exactly the right second. Uh this initiative is already making a difference. Uh families have shared that they feel seen, valued, and included. And so today, I urge this committee to do three things. First, continue supporting and expanding early local registration across Toronto. Second, ensure that implementation includes strong outreach, multilingual communication, digital access supports, and community based assistance for families who face barriers. And thirdly, require the collection and public reporting of diseedrated racebased and equity based data so the city can measure this program. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor Brazo. Thank you. >> Okay. Thanks. Uh questions of the deputent. Um >> Oh, questions of staff. Sorry. Yeah, I have to do that. Questions of staff. Uh um councelor councelor Moyes and then coun uh councelor Carol. Go ahead. >> Thank you. >> And councelor Sh. >> Thank you. Uh so uh one of the deputants Handy mentioned that uh the early registration only applies to swimming. Is that correct? And if so why is it if so do we have plans to expand into other programs as well? >> Chair uh good morning Aiden Sarovs here from parks and recreation. Uh councelor that is not uh uh correct. It is correct in the case of the Pam McConnell Aquatic Center because it is a standalone aquatic center. However, uh the program applies to all 37 locations across the city that are free centers. Uh some of which include things like swimming pools, gyms, etc. And they would include your typical indoor uh sports programs as well. >> Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, so thank you for the clarification. uh can you maybe talk about some of the successes we've had uh maybe across the system? Um I mean I'm biased to ask you about Toronto Center, but I I won't do that at this table. Perhaps you could maybe share some of the data around the um before and after when it comes to percentages and the increase around the city. >> Chair Terry Rickettts, Parks and Rack. Um so two main statistics we're pleased to report. one uh local registered clients increased from 36% to 65% over the course of the pilot um to date and clients from lower income areas increased from 57% to 65%. >> Great. So I know the pilot started in Toronto center. Um is it now going to be a permanent uh process or is it still on the pilot stage? chair. Uh this program is now going to go into sustainment. So it will continue um indefinitely unless council decides to make a change >> and you'll continue to assess and this success of it and perhaps make amendments or adjustments were needed over time. >> Chair are our monitoring is going to be ongoing and um you know adjustments will be made as required at the local level from a program delivery perspective through engagement etc. And just one final question in regards to where these centers located. I think it's 37 and 18 wards I believe. Are you um working with the local counselor to ensure the continued success of the program? >> Chair. Yes, that is the case. We've consulted um to date and continue to consult with all 18 counselors who have presenters in their wards as well as three counselors who have residents that attend presenters or within catchments. >> Okay, thank you so much. >> Thank you. Um questions councelor Carol. >> Uh yes, my questions come from my experience around oral center. Um, and we're getting questions from from people who are now not able to access the program. So, the the outside area people coming into the free center, we're in the 65% range and that's cut in half. Now, but the the question arises then how are we evaluating where we can where we can deal with that unmet need. Um, I I've talked to to both types people who people who are who are upset. I live outside that that community cent's catchment area, but I like that program. Um, I can afford to go anywhere. Uh, but that program isn't offered at the center closer to my to to my home. And also people who while they were coming from outside of area, um, it was because they couldn't afford a fee for service. So what are we doing to monitor the unmet needs so that while we get this going and I the the local approach is is very much appreciated in this center but what are we doing to make sure that the offerings and our our fee for service centers are keeping pace so that you have a fee for service option. >> Uh chair there's three ways I'd say primarily three ways in which we're addressing those concerns. Um, first of all, we're uh for those individuals from outside the catchment who are struggling with affordability of those programs where we're promoting the welcome policy. Secondly, we're working with folks who are having trouble locating the programs they want one-on-one, which we've seen um quite a bit of success with. Um and then we're also increasing uh we're looking at we are increasing the number of drop-in programs and also the size of drop-in programs in areas where we're seeing extra strain and demand um to try to meet that need. >> Okay. And in terms of promoting the welcome policy, there was a point at which it was our annual obsession and that sort of generated media around it. Um, but I think, you know, having this, you know, robust map of of free centers, it kind of took the pressure away and and now I think you're right. A lot of people, uh, if I can access it here, they've gotten away from the idea of exercising their welcome letter abilities. Um, how are we promoting that? Is that casework? How are we getting the word out there that that's still an option for you in any center? >> Chair, thanks for the question, counselor. Um it the the ecosystem of service delivery here in the city of Toronto from a subsidy perspective is vast. >> Welcome policy is one of those streams. We have a network of outreach workers and um investing in family staff on the ground working with families in need. >> Uh we partner with our other divisions uh other partners to get the word out and we have you know tons of materials that go out every year to those families who may need welcome policy to participate. >> Okay, great. And then one more question, Madam Chair, that just leaves us with seniors and and the feedback is most I'm most often hearing it from seniors. Uh, you know, I like going to that center because I I you know, I was going there for yoga and I like that lady. Um, or is there is there a band of seniors drop in? And is it it is it touching on physical activity, not just the the you know the the garden variety cultural groups that we have in every community center out where I represent? They're there and they're great, but are we making sure that we're matching physical activities for seniors from the free center out to the other centers? >> Chair, we are. Um I think counselor you're you're speaking about a service planning and a a program mix topic >> um which is an ongoing issue for you know many of our communities as the dynamics in those communities change. This particular energy has shifted some of the participation into other centers where my team is now looking at shifting programming into those centers where previously the demand didn't exist for those programs. So, it's a bit of a fluid uh and quarterly exercise that my team does to inject those services into those communities as they become more popular. >> Okay. So, there are eyes on it. That's that's what I'm getting at. That shift is being you've got eyes on it and they're they're they're addressing it as as needed >> through the chair. Certainly. >> Okay. Excellent. Thanks, Madam Chair. Thank you. And now we go to questions from councelor Shen. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, thanks to all the staff who worked on this and and um, great to see the progress. I just want to start off by asking what was the rational for making these 37 centers free. >> Chair, this exercise was done in 20 uh, 2012. Um, it was a locationbased evaluation of where these centers are compared to lowincome communities. The rationale was to provide local access to free programs for those communities that needed the most. Uh this evaluation uh is to be done regularly. Unfortunately, we were um hardressed to do this during the pandemic. So our next evaluation will actually be coming up in 2027 into 2028. >> Okay. So that's that's good because my concern also revolved around changing demographics and and changing neighborhoods. So um my next question because these were decided to be free programs based on the surrounding areas and the local population um how do the boundaries is what's the avenue to change any of these boundaries or expand or shift them uh around these centers around which area is covered what would the what would the process be and when do they get done >> through the chair thank you for the question counselor so if you're speaking about the catchment areas around free centers. Um you're going to re-examine those every five years just like we're looking at the the policies for free centers themselves um to respond to changing socioeconomic conditions and population. >> And when would that fiveyear mark come for for these this review for this current centers and the bound maps or catching areas >> in 2027. >> 2027. Um and I and councelor Carol asked my questions around welcome policy and one of the challenges is is that it is not uh necessarily known or used or even with the staff members. So what kind of training has been provided to the frontline staff at all of these centers around welcome policy as a as a proactive way of promoting it as opposed to being brought in. >> Chair, uh all of our staff promote welcome policy. Granted, uh I will admit that some likely do it better than others. So, we will continue to do better. Having said that, we also have, as I mentioned earlier, a network of of outreach staff uh who work with agencies, partners, communities themselves to promote uh the welcome policy availability and provide information on how eligibility works. So while this model um works really well um compared to what we had the free centers were created for the neighborhoods that are around those centers. So it's best to serve those communities first. Um is there any other models added to this that's being explored like for example within the same neighborhood we have in certain areas like the biggest economic disparity within a catchment area. Um so uh so when free programs are intended to be for communities that they can afford, is there any other thinking that's that's happening around making um reviewing this model to make it even more accessible? >> Uh to the chair. Um at the moment we're still mid um mid pilot. We we will see the last two um free centers on early local registration this summer. So, we'll be complete by fall and evaluating. But I I would I I do give credence to what you're saying. Um we notice that in a number of locations because Toronto is so very diversified that even in communities surrounding free centers, there is a variety of income levels. So, we are um we are aware of that and and future iterations um will consider what can be done. My last set of questions is around um concerns that have been raised from both ends. One side uh the concern by folks who have not been able to access the free program because they live outside have raised concern around attendance and and obviously people in in low-inccome situations have multiple things that may come up that may prevent them from continuing or participating in programs as well. Has attendance been monitored? And and then the other part of the concern is also from people who are in the community that there are people who might be uh altering addresses and so on and has there been some sort of a way in which that's being evaluated not to be very punitive and and surveillance-based but is there some sort of a verification process uh that is u empathetic and human but human compassionate kind of way to do this in a way that also still serves the purpose of of verifying to make sure um that the community accessing it is from their neighborhood. >> Last question. >> That's it. That's all my questions. >> The speaker, thank you for the question. So, I um I will speak to the changing addresses first, I think. So, you're correct in that what the data shows us is that we have a higher rate of addresses changes um with this program as compared to registrations in past years. In fact, four times higher. So even though it's a relatively small proportion um that we're seeing these address changes, it's still higher than would we would expect. So we're taking an education first approach right now or reaching out to folks and they are either verifying their address or in some cases we have a conversation about the the intent of the program. Um, in future years we're looking at technological tools that might be able to interrupt those patterns, but we haven't set it settled on anything final yet. We're still exploring what could happen. In terms of the other question you asked about folks who have been displaced um because of this program, again, we're we're really looking at working on them, working with them one-on-one, promoting the welcome policy, bringing it to their attention, and expanding programs where we can to meet that unmet need. And and to a a reasonable extent, we're having success with that as we work with folks individually. >> Thank you. Any other questions of staff? I have a couple questions. Um, just to pick up on the catchment area set of questions. Um, I assume that these uh that you're using all a range of of indices to make sure that you understand what that you're constantly reviewing as staff uh what those might look like uh as new information comes in. Number one. And number two, um, if we if the if the catchment areas are expanded or changed, does that dilute the impact of the actual the intervention, and I say this as a counselor that doesn't have one of these centers in Davenport. >> To the chair, I'm going to start with the second part of your question about the dilution. So you're you're quite correct. If we expand the catchment areas such that they blend with one another, then you start to lose the effect of early local registration. Right now, we're taking a city-wide approach, data informed, to set those those catchment areas. Um, so from exclusively from a ward perspective, sometimes it doesn't look quite right, but when then you widen your lens to a city perspective and you can see it's really serving the people. Um, that's that's how the catchments have been designed. And then I would refer to my colleague the question about indices. >> Sorry, >> can you repeat the question >> to the chair? Could you repeat the question please? >> Um that you're constantly uh factoring in and reviewing data as you know as new information comes that we have a new census this year will provide a lot of more uh granularity etc. And then plus they're uh potentially layering other uh forms of data that we're collecting. >> Yes. Uh to the chair. Thank you so much uh for the question. Uh yes indeed we are monitoring and we've been going through the catchment development sort of in a phased approach which has allowed us sort of to refine and build on the evaluation results and the intent would be to uh look at any sort of changes due to population growth or so socioeconomic changes at the same time that we look at the um the free center designation review in late 2027. >> Right? So it's a multi-dimensional kind of um thing to consider. >> Several factors income among others. >> Great. Uh the second um question in relation to data um one of the deputants raised that there wasn't that there wasn't enough data being captured and that there should be more. Can you comment on whether uh the city is or the um the parks and recreation division is capturing the data that um that we are legally allowed to collect? Is are we going all the way there or are we holding back? to the chair. We've been in active discussions with our legal council about additional social demographic data that we can collect via our registration and booking system. And the advice we've received is that to be in line with EMIPA, the Freedom of Information and Privacy Protection Act. We are actually collecting the most that we can at the moment for broad data collection across all of our registered clients. We continue conversations with them, but um it sounds like it's a little bit restrictive in collecting that additional equity based information in the registration and booking system. However, we do collect those types of um variables in our surveys to understand the impact of the programs. >> Right. Okay. So, I'm capturing here that um there are surveys that provide uh sort of um a qualitative and quantitative data. Um there is uh information that we understand from like censusbased um information including income to understand the area. Uh but that we would be violating people's protected rights um as set out in the in um in the legislation. So that is where we are right now with data collection. Thank you very much. Any other questions? No. Um now to speak uh councelor Moyes and then councelor Shen. >> Yes, thank you staff for this comprehensive report. Um you know the pilot project actually started early sir the the pilot early local restoration uh actually started in Toronto center and so in 2024 and you know you heard from the deputants after many many years it finally uh happened um of course was with with support from me um but again it was a a true partnership trying to get this done. Um some of the stats I have before me for example for Toronto center Pam McConnell uh local access is since the um pilot has gone from 36% to 71% region park center from 46% to 68% and Wiki community center from 56 to 85%. So that's extraord those are extraordinary numbers and uh it just warms my heart to see that happening and for the program to expand across 18 wards now in 37 centers. That's just incredible and so thank you staff for this work. Uh I look forward to continue to partner with you and the community to make sure that the program remains viable and successful. Uh that's about it. Thank you. >> Thank you. I think um no other speakers uh oh sorry I I keep you know when people are online I I you're still very valuable to to all of us here in the committee room counselor to speak >> totally understandable thank you chair bravo um I just want to thank the staff who supported this process this has been a a long time advocacy point for many of us when the programs were made free for a particular neighborhood it was based on the the demographics and the needs of the neighborhood. And so it totally made sense that the the people in those neighborhoods uh benefited from those free programs. Um but as I mentioned, one of the things that we are starting to think about uh through this pilot is that when you have a map uh and and many of our maps in in many of our wards uh that are large, we know that income disparities is is huge. So, so technically free programs may benefit those who live uh and can be able to pay but are also interested in paying but but the programs are are free which is not a bad thing because it's it's part of you know building a community that you know people from different parts of the neighborhood can come and play together and build relationships. So, it's not necessarily a a bad thing that that we have mixed income folks in from the certain neighborhoods that are that are that are in in in programs together. I do think that uh that the changes to some of the catchment areas. Some of them are defined by neighborhoods that are named as neighborhoods by the city of Toronto as opposed to looking at maps of disparities and and where the centers are located. So for example in Malwin uh when you say Malwan community recreation center the entire Malwan gets saved but some parts of Malvin might be more closer to Burough community center. Some parts of Morningside Heights which is a different neighborhood is close to a Malwan community rec center. So these neighborhood boundaries also uh could be limiting. So it's important to kind of revisit this a little bit. Uh welcome policy. I I do have a lot of anecdotal experiences of people who are not being uh able to fully uh be supported in that situation. So I understand that as as the staff mentioned some do it better than the others but but if you can elevate the standard of how care is being used around how we promote support uh people and encourage them to use welcome policy if it's applicable to them that would be helpful. Um I do think that uh the address verification process uh particularly in in in Melbourne for example there is a need to figure out a way to strengthen that in a compassionate way uh through education through engagement through through supportive work whatever may be but it's it's important to address that a and to look at um attendance rates to see if programs are successful uh if they have uh certain issues and what weight list processes are and so on. So it's it's important to also have vibrant programs in these spaces. The last thing I would say is that I know in the pilot early part of the pilot have quite a amount of uh resources put into outreach and promotion on and over time I know that that same level of resources may not be there. So to build structurally things like you know working together with school board in a formal way to to have a calendar that's shared to those schools in the area. Now we do it as an outreach mechanism but if it can be structured in certain ways that the community gets this information ahead and the and the registration numbers go up uh as well and and and looking at this uh program hopefully um you know ideally in in my in my view ideally recreation is is a social determinant of health and should be free and should be accessible for more people than what we do uh beyond the use of fees. uh but I think this is a great first step and thank the staff uh for persevering through this process and I'm glad that we almost almost all the centers are now in this uh pilot. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any other speakers? Um I think uh we'll leave it uh at that and just to thank staff for uh your excellent work on this. This is a real progress and to recognize that if it hadn't been for all of that advocacy out of region park for so many years and the social development goals to which we've committed uh particularly through the redevelopment and all the phases um all every good policy comes from uh the real experience of people on the ground and um and that is I think something that we can do over time in the in uh local government. uh change does take time. Um but the work that um the deputants have done, the community advocates uh and all many many uh people across the city and city staff, counselors championing um amounts to better outcomes for people. Uh learning how to swim is life saving. Uh being able to participate in recreation uh is important. the athletics for health and the connection and uh it should not be uh that a program that has been designed to serve uh people uh with uh in a particular way um is undone because others have access to you know three tablets and two computers. I I think that this is really great work and as we heard from staff uh there is a constant rethinking and um and use of data to inform how this will have the maximum impact for uh the greatest number of people who are the the intended designates of this support. So, um, on the item, all those in favor, opposed, that's carried. And that takes us to our final item, uh, EC28.6, access to outdoor ovens and parks progress update. And the first uh, deputent I'm going to call is Jode Roberts. >> Is Joe online? >> No, he's not. >> Okay, we'll come we'll call that name. Oh, you're here. Sorry. Yes, I recognize you from online before. Uh, welcome to committee. You have five minutes. >> Yes, it should be green. >> Uh, you have to press it's it's >> now it's green. >> Absolutely. Go ahead. >> All right. Uh, thank you. Um, my name is Jode Roberts. I'm with the Friends of Christy Pitts Park. Have been part of that group uh for about 15 years. and I'll be telling a bit of a personal story that seems a little indulgent given the weight and the import of all the rest of the issues you've been dealing with. So, hooray. And the last deputy tint was very inspirational. Um, so last week someone shared a photo of me uh with a fresh slice of pizza from the Christy Pitts wood oven. Um, it was one of the first times I'd helped use the oven for a community event. And what was most notable for me and my vanity was I had no gray hair and my son was in a stroller. Uh my son is going to college next year and you may well anyways so uh I've been been at this a while um invested in the wood oven in Christy Pitts Park and found out there's other ovens throughout the city. So um realized that it's an opportunity to engage community, provide food, bring a little joy. Um since those first make your own pizza nights at Christy Pitz, I've helped host dozens of pizza nights, workshops, and community events using this oven um and other ovens. And unless you spent time at these events, um it might not be obvious how much work it is uh to create magic with a wood oven. Promoting the event, finding reliable volunteers, purchasing and preparing the food, setting up the event takes many volunteer hours to make things happen. And getting a wood oven started is not like when my wife asks me to start the barbecue in the backyard. It takes hours to start a fire and get it up to the temperature needed to for baking or cooking pizza. Um when I began on this journey with Wood Evans, which is still a strange thing to say, um the city had just begun charging fees for its use. The recreation part department had just uh stopped providing staff to help with the ovens in various parks. And since then, I've continued to be an advocate for using these ovens to make magic happen in Christy Pits and other parks. I think this is my fourth deputation, so you may may recognize me. Um the bureaucracy has been a bit baffling at times. um as park supers and uh supervisors and staff would change and the permits process became uh the permits process and permits became uh more rigid and expensive. Um it's been kind of like Groundhog Day at times for many of us, bringing each new staff person and new regime up to speed on these strange and wonderful city artifacts and trying to ensure that our groups are able to use them with minimal cost and the most efficient process. Um, interestingly, I checked last year and the total number of parks and recck staff that I've been email corresponding with over the that time is 31 different staff. So, thank you to all the staff that have listened to us over time um and and responded. Uh, our area alone has had six park supervisors in the last 8 years and those staff has have periodically tried to sort things out and make things easier for the community or organizers like myself. It's often seemed that the boxes that staff were keen to check were not necessarily the boxes the community wanted checked in the first place. Um, and that showed to me that senior staff within parks forestry wreck weren't always listening as closely to the needs of the community. But the good news good news is that uh with today's proposed changes, two of the most important boxes for community organ or organizers like myself and the others listed in the report um are being checked. So no fees and insurance costs and streamlined permits. So, hurrah. Um, given how quirky wood ovens are as a city asset, it's not surprising there have been misunderstandings and friction as we try and figure out how to use these things efficiently and effectively. And I'm sure this probably won't be the last time I'll be here uh for these purposes. But I will continue because I see it as an incredible uh incredibly valuable resource and we're grateful for the steps that are being brought brought forward today and look forward to making magic happen this summer and beyond. and I have more time. So, I'm going to thank the um the OG wood oven um heroes in Toronto. Toronto famous for raccoons and ravines. I would argue wood ovens could be one of those weird things that Toronto is, you know, a little famous for. Um and some of the people that helped make this magic happen, Uda Mason in Duffren Grove Park, Sean Braithweight in Regent Park, Sabina Ali in Thorncliffe, and a ton of others. Um so, thank you to all of them. They're heroes of mine and they should be heroes to the to their communities. They've given countless hours and inspiration and brought joy and good food to Toronto's parks. So, in short, thank you and I'll see you at the wood ovens hopefully this summer. >> Thank you. Um I I'll ask you a couple of questions. Um I think we interacted in the previous iteration of this report when um um it uh went back to staff and now we're hearing um good words from you about where we are. um in terms of how how this works and you talked about the OGs and they we've called them oven champions but can you uh comment a bit on what kind of commitment it requires from community and and the spark that you've seen how that this has worked where where the the energy and the support has come from. Uh it's I think one of the struggles to satisfy the the needs of the different communities with all these parks like in very different neighborhoods. Regent Park, Thorncliffe, Defin Grove, Christy Pitts. Um it's been a struggle for staff to support the very different and nuanced needs of those groups and some are bigger groups. The Friends of Christy Pitts functionally is me and Monica and whoever else will help volunteer with us. So uh some groups are more structured. Sor, the friends of Surin Park have farmers markets every week and they they use the wood oven to create pizza. Sabina Ali and RV Burgess Park well has probably been here many times. Um, and is a legend because she and her group have created a tandoor oven that takes a lot of energy. They pull it out and they use that at at night markets. So each of the groups have very different needs. Um there I think there remains needs for training of people using the wood ovens. As these become hopefully more popular uh things to be uh used by the public and these groups, we need more training to ensure everyone's using them properly. Uh but this by removing the permitting fees, the insurance and and streamlining in the process, it's really reduced the burden and some of the friction for the groups using those ovens. We still have costs related to, you know, all the preparation and and making food. Um, but this has been helpful to get here and it the f this started in 2024 in July. So, it's been a almost two-year process to get from us asking for these things to um to this happening. So, we're grateful that it's finally happened and thankfully we're all persistent like the rest of the people in this room. >> Well, as you can from the previous item, this is like break neck speed. It's two years. So, we did bring it back to improve it. But um I the so you've talked about how um there's a need for staff to understand the park oven group um and support but there for example in um you know Sabina they do more than than just do the oven there the night market the trainings the support from Thorncliff neighborhood office it it does come like from a bottom up and that's like you said a very different neighborhood than Duffren growth. >> Um what is the role that you see for community uh members? Um how essential are they in making sure that these ovens work? >> Yeah, as I as I mentioned, um recreation used to provide staff that would help light the ovens, like the two or three hours it takes to light the ovens. Um and sometimes staff and still sometimes staff are are uh usually wreck staff are assisting with creating the pizzas and the things that come out of them for uh for camps and other other purposes. But that's largely absent from the rest of the places we have parks. So it's entirely dependent on these groups to come up with the idea to purchase all of the resources the to make pizza or naan or whatever the um the items are and then line up volunteers to do the organization to do the promotion of the events and and so there's a ton of work and it's all born by these community groups. Um so this removing these the permit and the insurance and and streamlining the process is helpful. um it doesn't remove the ton of work that uh that these community members often unpaid or or mostly unpaid are doing. I'm not sure if that answers your question. >> Yeah, I'm just saying there's sweat equity from the community to actually make it work. And what this report does is get out of the way and find better ways to support that and recognize the capacity and the community building and community development work that happens in these parks. So, >> yeah, that's what I should have said. >> Yeah. Okay, cool. Thank you. Um any other questions? So the next uh speaker, welcome Shauna uh Karns and you have five minutes. Hello everyone. My name is Shauna Karns and I'm here representing Second Rise, a social enterprise that provides supportive employment services to people facing barriers. I'm the lead facilitator and co-founder. I work alongside the Second Rise Advisory Committee. Together, we set the strategic direction for the organization and explore how indigenous and non-indigenous people work together and towards reconciliation. I've been involved with the outdoor ovens in Toronto since 2013. I first heard about the Duffren Grove oven, a community oven that I would go on to hear about for years to come from Masons, bakers, and community members internationally. For those who don't know, the Duffren Grove oven, built by master oven built, master oven builder Alan Scott in the9s, has been a model for parks and community ovens across North America. I lived in the US for a number of years and constantly like my work revolved around these woodfired ovens and I would frequently be asked about the Duffren Grove oven in Toronto which made me feel very proud. I moved back to Toronto in 2020 after having lived in Pittsburgh for almost a decade building ovens and job training programs. Over the last six years, I've used the ovens in Alexander Park, Fairmont, Soran, Christy Pitts, Duffren Grove, and Witchwood. We've used the ovens to host banic making workshops for community members, pizza nights for newcomer youth cooking programs and tenants of a community land trust at the Fairmont Oven, non-night and Christy Pitts, oven training workshops for city staff in Duffren Grove. The list goes on. This summer, Second Rise will host a job training pilot in city ovens. and the proposed changes to the oven policies would allow us to deliver our programming to more individuals with fewer barriers. I see so much value in making these ovens more accessible to more people. They are extremely powerful community building tools that are right now underutilized. Listening to the other issues discussed today, I'm aware of much more pressing issues that residents face like homelessness and access to rec programs. But I think it's worth mentioning that places like the the city ovens are spaces where people from very different backgrounds can eat together, share space, and connect. Building these connections feels more important than ever. These relationships help us become more engaged, informed, and empathetic community members. I'm therefore glad to see the city open to embracing policy changes that make the ovens more accessible. However, with these changes, I like Jode want to emphasize the need to provide training opportunities for community members, whether it's local organizations or the public, so that more people can learn to use the ovens oven safely and with confidence. Um, this is a process second rise and others are keen and positioned to support. Lastly, I want to express gratitude to UT Mason in Duffren Grove, Herman Ellis and Katie Mloud at Scadding Court and Alexander Park, Jode Roberts and Christy Pittz, and Sabina Ali and Thorncliffe Park who've mentored, inspired, andor removed barriers to access for various ovens and in many ways have paved the way for these changes that have been proposed today. Thank you also to Shawit Kelly and councelor Bravo at the city for listening and championing these changes. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Uh are there any questions of the deputent? Um I just uh wanted to thank you for coming to committee and u for shouting out all of the champions by name. That way I I don't have to and uh and for um highlighting the importance of of the local people that make this happen. Thank you so much. Um on any questions of staff? Uh yes, councelor Moyes. >> Thank you. And again, this program is amazing. And of course, I have one in region park. Um looking at the year-to-year, there is some sub substantive increase in some of these areas. For example, Christy Pittz, you know, in 2020, well, I went from 2023, 17, 2024, 30, 2025, 50 Duffing Grove, you know, 4 to 29. But in region park, for example, though, it really hasn't really had a lot of movements. In 2023 was 18, then 24, 2025, 22. What can we do to perhaps increase the uh usage of this uh of these ovens >> through the chair? Thank you for that question and you're correct. The uh usage rates uh vary from park to park. We are anticipating and what we heard back from the oven champions was that relieving the financial burdens and the administrative burdens that were um affecting people's ability to use the ovens will be a valuable way of increasing use uh starting this season. So, for example, before you had to bring all of your own equipment, the pizza peel and uh the various types of equipment that you would need to operate the oven. So, we've now made sure that every oven has its own set of tools. And we are upgrading and renewing the training video on how to use the ovens uh featuring community members so that it uh you know it really resembles what it would be like to operate an oven. And we're going to be providing information to all counselor's offices so that you can um increase awareness among your constituents about the availability of these ovens. Before you kind of had to know about them in order to register, but now you can book the oven online in a you know frictionless way. As as Jod was saying, there's less friction. And we've also spent time working with the uh parks and recreation staff to train them up on the use of the ovens. And we're anticipating that that will result in uh higher levels of use in all of the parks this summer. Great. And then will the report comes back this committee uh for an update in 2027? I guess at this point for 2026 >> we can do that. >> Okay. And just one final question. Um the last deputent China mentioned indigenous people and the use of the ovens which I really appreciate because I actually didn't think about it. Uh what steps are we taking to make sure that they have access to these types of ovens >> through the chair? We're going to continue to work with the community members who know how to animate these ovens and Shauna's group is an important one. Also, through our uh reconciliation efforts, we uh will be working with indigenous service organizations to make sure that they're also aware of the opportunity for community groups to book the ovens to use. And just one final question. Uh the local counselors, are they assisting or will have opportunity to perhaps provide input to help this be successful? >> We'd love that to happen. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Any other questions of staff to speak? Any speakers? Um I will I I will speak to um to say well Duffren Grove the original um oven is in Davenport and I lived in that neighborhood in the '9s and saw uh the amazing um transformation that the spark of everything that was happening in that park led by Utah Mason and other residents uh was the oven was just an expression of so much other work uh that I think comes alongside side of uh seeing a park that was not what it is today um and building uh relationships and um using their own energy um to bring forward a series of activities that are have made it such a such a wonderful park. It's a real privilege to represent that area. I I really want to thank um both the en champions and the park staff uh parks um staff listened when the voices were raised about what was needed. Uh when the report initially came there, it wasn't quite what was required to ensure that we're meeting the goals that have been supported by um in champions today and what you've heard in in answers to questions of staff. I think this is a wonderful approach to working and listening and for me it was a privilege to work with the city staff on this thoughtfully to and and thank you for the oven champions. We convened a meeting. Uh we kind of got to the nub of it, which is make it easier to sign up, get uh ensure that the costs were uh lessened and that there were some enabling tools. But really, it's the energy of the local uh champions who have taken up this incredible amount of work um that provides a wonderful uh amenity and and convening opportunity. There's nothing like uh eating the pizza together um at the end at the end of this long process uh for uh creating wonderful bonds. The the continual um listening to the the champions I think is something that you heard uh from staff and uh this this kind of community building is really only possible when there's a commitment at the city to think about community members as assets. um not as impediments or or pains. It's actually just to value uh everything that you do. Uh and uh so thank you again to both staff and to the community members that have come forward with your expertise and have uh raised your voice with in one way. And you can see that the diversity of the parks that have ovens is the income levels are different. The uh the profile of the community is different. the built form from a tower community to uh you know uh very like um houses and uh a residential streets. Uh this is a wonderful example of something that can happen in the city of Toronto. So with that, seeing no other speakers on the item, all those in favor opposed, that's carried. And uh this seems like a very uh a good time to break. >> Oh, sorry. We have um one more item >> not on the top of my game today. This one is uh the letter >> the the letter from uh Deputy Mayor Malik. Um you saw it's been not circulated on CMP. Um are there questions of staff uh to speak? Deputy Mayor Malik. >> Thank you very much. I'll be very brief. Um, I'm uh I have put forward a motion um to bring together um important stakeholders in the neighborhood and the leadership of Walk of Fame alongside our Toronto Downtown Westbia, the Mvish um uh group and uh lo residents and local businesses so that we can uh explore um an exciting and I think very appropriate activation reactivation of David Pico Square to meet and match the success of our King Street um uh transit corridor and the increased activity and development that's happening in that neighborhood to make sure it's a place that people can stay, enjoy, support local businesses, and also be uh a great place to call home. Thank you. >> Thank you on the item. All those in favor? Opposed? That's carried. And that concludes our meeting. Thank you very much to uh members of the public uh to members of staff and all. We had 100% attendance today. Take care. >> And thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thank you.