Morning. >> Good morning. My name is Deputy Mayor Paul Linsley. I am the chair of the general government committee. >> Morning everyone. We have quorum. So now I'm calling meeting number 30 to order. Welcome everyone. Today's meeting is being held by video conference and in person at city hall in committee room number one. This meeting is also being livereamed on YouTube.com at Toronto City Council Live. For the land acknowledgement, I would like to say on behalf of myself, my colleagues, and all of our amazing staff that although we may be meeting in different locations today, the general government committee would like to acknowledge the land we're meeting on is a traditional territory of many nations, including the Missosagas of the Credit, the Ana Shab, the Chipoa, the Honi, and the Wendette peoples, and is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit, and Matei people. We also would like to acknowledge Toronto is covered by treaty number 13 with the Missagas of the credit. For the committee members, I'd just like to remind you the city clerk has provided all of our agenda materials on the city website at toronto.ca/counsel and also on the clerk's meeting portal. Clerk's IT staff are available if you have any trouble with your electronic devices. And a reminder to please submit your motions if you have any to the clerk at ggcronto.ca. CA. Excuse me. Are there any declarations of interest under the Ontario Municipal Conflict of Interest Act? Seeing none, can I have a motion to confirm the minutes of our last meeting of May 11th, 2026? Moved by Councelor Thompson. All in favor? That carries. I'm going to go through the agenda. So, our first item is GG 30.1 Administrative Penalty Tribunal Chairs 2025 annual report. presentation >> like a presentation on that. >> All right, I will hold that in my name. Uh GG30.2 amendment to blanket contract 47025022 with wintergreen learning materials for the supply and delivery of children's furniture, toys, and manipulatives for various children's services locations. Move by councelor Burnside. All in favor that carries. GG 30.3 amendment to purchase order 6053845 with Maple Reindeers Constructors Limited for Bioolids master plan implementation project and the south facility upgrades project at the Highland Creek Treatment Plant in Ward 25. Mover Councelor Holiday on favor that carries. Uh GG 30.4 for amendment to purchase order 6054643 with ACOM Canada ULC for engineering design services at the Ash Bridges Bay treatment plant for old primary sedimentation tanks upgrades projects moved by councelor Chang all in favor that carries GG 30.5 amendment to purchase order number 6055184 with Hari Pantarin Panterini Architects for the enhanced state of good repair accessibility and net zero project at the St. Lawrence Center for the Performing Arts. >> I'd like to hold this one, please. >> Al by number five is being held by councelor Cheng. GG 30.6 Six. Award of document 5491818166 to Palmer Low Incorporated for Ash Bridges Bay Treatment Plant Digtor gas compressors, dryers, and chillers installation and an amendment to purchase order 6052432 for Associated Engineering Ontario Limited for Construction Administrative Services. I have a mover. Councelor Thompson. All in favor? That carries. GG 30.7 award of negotiated request for proposal document 4711617964 to CTI working environments for supply delivery and installation of office furniture moved by councelor Holiday on favor that carries GG 30.8 8 purchase order amendment for general contacting services number 6056841 with Palmer Lo Incorporated for general contacting services for the Toronto Paramedic Services Multifunction Station at 300 Progress Avenue. Move by Councelor Thompson. GG 30.9 sorry move by councelor Thompson. All in favor carried. GG 30.8 Eight, purchase order amendment for general contracting services number 6056841 with Palmerlo Incorporated for the general No, sorry, did that one already. My bad. More coffee for the chair. Uh, number nine, GG30.9, amendment to purchase order 6049718 with Violia Water Canada Incorporated for critical capital improvements and maintenance at the Disco Organics processing facility. Moved by councelor Holidayiday on favor that carries. >> All right. Spreading good news across the city and collecting it. Uh GG30.10 award of document 5398199635 to Alberi Constructors Limited for the new ultraviolet disinfection and residuals management facility at the island water treatment plant. An amendment to purchase order 6056811 and 6057463 with ACOM Canada ULC for contract administration and post construction services held by councelor Thompson >> held by councelor Thompson GG 30.11 non-competitive bridge contract with Arcadus Professional Services Canada Incorporated for the provision of the city's congestion management center operation services. >> I'd like to hold this one, please. >> Who wants >> held by councelor Chang? >> Uh GG30.12 non-competitive contract with root smart technologies for the continued use of collection route management and service planning software for solid waste management services. Move by councelor Thompson. All in favor that carries. Non-competitive contract with Service Now Canada Incorporated for licenses and professional services. Move by councelor Burnside. All in favor? Carried. GG 30.14. Non-competitive contracts for the provision of the city's traffic electrical maintenance and emergency services and traffic electrical plan capital works roster. All >> please. Councelor Thompson. GG30.15. non-competitive procurement contract with Smart Simple Software Incorporated for the new configuration of the Toronto grants, rebates, and incentives portal for the housing secretariat. Move by councelor Chang. All in favor that carries. GG 30.16, summary of an open competitive awards made by the chief procurement officer from 11 April 11th to May 12th, 2026. Move by councelor Holidayiday. All in favor that carries. GG 30.17 litigation arising from the replacement of the water man at the Kipling Avenue bridge over the Humber River. Move by councelor Holidayiday. All in favor that carries. GG 30.18 implementation of construction management at risk delivery model for the Ash Bridges Bay treatment plant integrated pumping station construction contract by councelor Burnside. All in favor that carries. I'm sorry. 19 GG 30.19 delegation of authority for license agreements to facilitate the use of published sound recordings in recreation facilities by councelor Thompson. All in favor that carries. GG 30.20 20 Toronto Fire Department superanuation and benefit fund funding valuation report as of December 31st 2025. Move by councelor Holidayiday. All in favor that carries. GG 30.21 1141 Blur Street West and 900 sorry 980 Duffren Street. Community space tenency lease agreements and municipal capital facilities designations for five tenant agencies in the Blure Duffren Community Hub. Moved by councelor Thompson. All in favor? That carries. GG 30.22 1652 Keel Street community space tenency lease agreement with the Black Women's Institute for Health and Municipal Capital Facility Designation. Moved by Councelor Chang. All in favor? That carries. GG 30.23 occupational health and safety report end of year 2025. >> Sorry, who's that? Councelor Thompson. Yeah, >> Councelor Thompson's holding number 23. >> GG 30.24 non-union separation costs for 2025. >> I'd like to hold that, please. >> By councelor Chang. And our last item that needs to be added to the agenda, GG 30.25 animated Nathan Phillips Square, which I need a motion. I'm going to move to add to the agenda and then I'll hold it so people can look at it. And then we're going back to >> Did I miss one? >> A vote to introduce. >> Oh, sorry. I thought all in favor of introducing carries. >> Thank you, Matthew. All right, we are going back to GG 30.1 Administrative Penalty Tribunal Chairs 2025 annual report and we have a presentation from staff. Morning. You can start whenever you're ready. >> Is your microphone on? >> I beg your pardon, Mr. Chair. >> Not a problem. You can start whenever you're ready. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, let me say that we are very pleased and honored to have been asked to appear before the uh committee this morning and to provide whatever information you may require. The uh presentation is on file uh with the committee uh and of course prepared to provide any questions uh arising. Uh let me if I may Mr. Chair just highlight a couple of items. The the signal event for the administrative penalty tribunal in 2025 was the adoption of what we refer to as the camera offenses. as automated speed enforcement and red light camera offenses which were transitioned to the jurisdiction of the tribunal uh in February of 2025 and uh have uh well just become part of the overall jurisdiction of the tribunal since that point. That did represent a significant change in the jurisdiction of the of the tribunal and and led to series of new trainings, new techniques, new um u really just simply new procedures to deal with those specific kinds of offenses which are somewhat different in nature than the parking violations that form the the vast majority of the of the tribunals's work. So with that if there are if there are any particular questions um arising from the report uh be happy to address them. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Questions of the presentation. >> Yes. Uh thank you Mr. Chair >> Thompson. >> Yes. Thank you Mr. Chair. I apolog Mr. Somerville. Right. Mr. >> Chair. Thank you very much for being here sir. I think it's a important report and it's an important um uh work that you and your team do because of the impact it actually has in our community and so on. Uh so I wanted just to um start off by um simply asking you um with respect to the uh decisions uh regarding no final no appeal process what safeguards are actually in place to ensure that procedural fairness takes place uh the AP decisions are final correct >> uh yes sir >> right so >> through you Mr. Sure. >> So safeguards that are in place, how can you help the public to understand that there's a procedural fairness are actually in place? >> There's really a rather extensive procedure that that precedes that final decision. Uh it starts with a uh an application by the uh person who receives a parking violation say um and they are then invited to appeal that uh finding um to a screening officer. Uh so that's a one level of oversight. Uh the screening officer then makes a decision and that decision is subject to a further appeal should the uh person decide to uh exercise it. That then comes to the tribunal. The tribunal is a an independent quasi judicial uh body that is fully endowed with all of the requirements and endowments uh related to fair fair hearing justice um and independence. >> Gotcha. >> So that's there's a fair process that goes on before uh a final decision is rendered. >> Gotcha. Okay. That's very helpful, sir. Thank you so much. Um obviously you've seen an increase in the volume of intakes and the uh processes and so on. I I'm just wondering do you have enough staff to meet the demand as such and how are you with respect to your FTS and um you know you've got hearing officers obviously hearing the matters and so do you have enough personnel to help you to do it in a more efficient way? personnel may not be the primary uh focus for our interest in that uh through you Mr. Chair the the one of the key elements is the availability of hearing rooms. >> So we currently have eight hearing rooms that are available which are being allocated as between parking violations and the I'll call them the camera offenses. uh six to the parking violations and two to the uh camera offenses. Um it it is emerging as a matter of considerable interest that we would want to have some additional hearing rooms uh available that will simply help throughput. Terms of numbers of members that is also something that we think about um regularly. Um it it may be uh that uh that's something that should be addressed uh in the near future that we currently have 25 members. They operate on a part-time basis. That means that they have other calls on their uh time. They may not always be available to the tribunal to hear uh the cases and to be scheduled and slotted in to the hearing rooms that we do have. Um so to answer your question, hearing rooms and and the issue of additional members is is also uh in our minds sir. >> Now that takes me to your slide number six and I was going to ask you questions about that and so you've actually provided some information here in terms of the number of days waiting for parking and red light cameras and automated uh speed enforcement. Um now it for it takes about six months almost six and a half months for red light camera hearing is is do you not think that's a long time? >> I do. >> And so back to the first questions about you know number of staff you mentioned about hearing rooms and so on. So what's the plan then to address this issue? Because waiting for 6 and 1/2 months uh for a red light uh camera almost 4 1/2 months for parking and then corresponding for automated speed enforcement that's three and a half let's say four months. It's a long period of time. So how could we accelerate and facilitate that in a flow to give you and your team the ability to respond to the public? >> If I may, Mr. chair uh through you. Uh >> a final question, Mr. Chair. >> I'd like to refer that question to the secretariat. >> Okay. >> Um that will have a a better idea as to what all of those days are dedicated to. >> Uh through the chair, uh Diane Cassy's executive director for courts. Hello. Uh yes. So the when red light camera and automated speed was moved over to the administrative penalty system, the average length of time in the courts was about 18 months. So this is a really uh a faster, speedier resolution for those matters. Um, as the APS continues to expand and there are calls to have other um, offenses brought into the APS, we will be closely monitoring the need for hearing officers, staff, screening officers um, and we'll present uh, requirements through budget as necessary. >> Great. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Thompson, Councelor Holiday. Questions of the presenter. >> Thank you for your presentation. Um, Chair Hovville, this is uh very interesting uh and I'm appreciative of the opportunity to ask you questions about it. I'm intrigued about the thinking process that the um panel members apply when they consider hardship. And I I noticed the numbers. It seems parking tickets just there's more volume of them, but there's also more changes to the tickets because of hardship. and there's more cancellations than say red light cameras. But could you tell the committee a little bit about um the thought process that goes into making those decisions? >> If I may through you, Mr. Chair, the the there were other changes that occurred uh to the uh jurisdiction of the board and the processes that we follow uh in making determinations with respect to undue hardship. for example, the the scope of that review is has been uh limited somewhat and and that won't necessarily be fully reflected in the figures that you're looking at here. But um more I think to your point um undue hardship is a defined term within chapter 610 which is our governing bylaw. Um it it is a defined term. It is like many defined terms. It's capable of more than one definition. Uh it it and the the panel members the the deciding hearing officers uh have have a independence and and opportunity to apply their thinking as as informed by leadership uh to some degree. um to determine whether a particular set of circumstances should give rise to to some empathy and some reduction in the amount of the penalty there. Those things may be a lost job. It may be an illness. It may be any number of different uh financial consequences that can occur to a person that would make the the reduction for under undue hardship as is permitted and mandated by the by the legislation advisable. So it's it's not it's not a blank page by any means. It's a defined term. It is it is capable of of some um latitude and it is exercised in order to meet the the purpose of those parts of the chapter uh chapter 610 that compel us to consider uh hardship um circumstances and to reduce accordingly. Does that answer your question, sir? >> Yes. Um I' I'd love to talk about some practical examples but we might not have time just to help me understand it but maybe you could tell me a little bit more how you as chair ensure consistency because to me um having tickets canled or reduced is central to the justice component and somebody looking from the outside in says you know how come that person has to pay and that person doesn't based on circumstances you know they own a car that kind of thing but but maybe even more important is consistency. between the different panel members understanding that there's discretion. What do they base their decisions on? Is it just experience or feeling or do they have more? True through you, Mr. Chair. We work very hard uh at consistency. Uh we have um um direction um uh training that is applied to all members. uh and we have expectations through practice directions and other mechanisms to to enhance the uh consistency of our work. We consider consistency to be an important value for us. Um that doesn't mean it's going to be a onesizefits-all solution at the end of the day. uh but that the considerations that go into those determinations we do we do insist are are consistent throughout the hearing officer uh body. Maybe one last follow-on question is is consideration given to someone that is a repeat offender that repeatedly asks for uh hardship? Uh, so if somebody's racking up tickets and keeps getting off the ticket, um, at what point do you do you deal with that? Well, uh, through you, Mr. Chair, I I don't have a specific, uh, example. Um, I I'm very recent appointment. Uh, I served originally for the AP and I'm now back uh since uh since May. And so I don't I don't have a specific example uh uh to to cite. Um I would certainly expect and I would expect our hearing officers would uh regard a repeat offender as u someone who's not getting the uh message. I mean in in our work there's there's kind of some measure of empathy on one side. It needs to be structured. It needs to be disciplined. needs to be consistent and on the other hand we have deterrence. Uh those are values and finding finding the right balance in any particular case is is the is why we have hearing officers who are expert at what they're doing and why we train them and why we guide them. Um so uh through you Mr. Chair. Is is that a is that an answer to your question council? >> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you chair. Thank you, Councelor Holiday. Other questions of staff on this item or the presenters? Sorry. Seeing none. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Uh questions of staff on this? >> No. >> Councor Holiday. I'll just ask from a staff's perspective uh how the city approaches uh the questions I raised about that balance with deterrence and empathy and how do we structure our our policies around that because the tribunal has to work with what we give them. But could you tell me a little bit just from a city's perspective on those questions? >> Yes, through the chair. Um so I just want to uh talk a little bit about hardship. So when red light camera and automated speed were in the courts, justice of the peace make that determination as well. And it is really on individual case basis. There is no sort of standard. Um they they do it based on the evidence presented in front of them. That would be the same for the hearing officers here as well. Um when we moved red light camera and automated speed over, we strengthened the bylaw. Um so we required people to provide evidence right of medical hardship or other things. It's not just you come to the hearing and you say something. There has to be some evidence in behind and there is um more transparency in terms of how these decisions are being made and um actually accounted for in the decisions documents that are prepared. So those are um some ways that we're ensuring right that there are the rules are being followed that proper things are being considered um again similar to the way that it is in court the hearing members have the discretion to make those judgments just like justice of the peace. >> Thank you. And just it's maybe more of a general question. Um the significant body of work uh for the panel has to do with parking tickets but I know those are also the biggest business line right there's a lot of tickets that are issued um there seems to be very few uh appeals to get the get that this level for red light cameras and could you give me a sense of why that is and in fact when I look at the numbers the vast majority of the 2300 red light tickets like the vast vast majority were were affirmed uh and like two were varied for hardship, only five were cancelled. I can't imagine what the stories were behind that. And then there's a category that says adjourned and I wasn't quite sure what that meant, but I am a little curious on the story of the red light cameras and whether or not that pattern will hold because it seems to be a very small line of business uh for the tribunal, which is probably a good thing. >> Yes, to the chair, I would say that is a good thing. Um what that means is when someone asks for a screening and that screening officer makes a decision that people are accepting that decision right um people will bring something forward to the tribunal if they disagree with the decision of the screening officer. So um from my perspective it's positive right that the number of appeals aren't as high. I mean parking is 2 million matters a year so that those numbers are higher. Um with respect to adjournment I will refer back to the chair um for his um input on that >> adjournment if if I may through you Mr. Chair Germans are something that we are reluctant to uh grant and and certainly my guidance to our members would be that that only in the most pressing circumstances should an adjournment be permitted. >> Um >> what's an adjournment? Maybe start with that. Like what's the definition? >> We're not going to hear it today. We're going to hear it in another in another day. >> I see. Okay. >> It's going to be pushed down the road. >> Okay. >> Uh that should be a very rare circumstance in these cases. If I may also just suggest in response to your earlier question uh through you, Mr. share the one of the key things about the the camera offenses that there's a camera and there is a definitive record of the offense occurring that limits the imagination, right? Uh so uh that's why in that's one of the reasons why the incidence of of those cases coming uh for a further appeal. Uh just just for clarification on that. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Councelor Thompson. Any questions? >> Um yes. Get my microphone on here. Yes. Through you to staff. Um the chair as part of my questioning to the chair we've talked a little bit about the number of hearing room Mr. Sure. Um, so I'm just wondering what is the plan from the staff perspective to increase the number of uh hearing room or is there a plan >> through the chair? Um, the a lot of our tribuners are still virtual, right? We are offering in-person um meetings and so we're carefully balancing the needs like I indicated as the program expands. Uh potentially screening officers will need to expand, hearing members will need to expand and the facility and infrastructure around that will need to expand. So we will be working with Creme and others to um ensure that we have uh adequate resources for the tribunal. >> Oh, fantastic. Thank you. Um the prepaid um to hearing date reflects about 16% of those. So those are people who just automatically pay the ticket and move on. Is that what that means? >> Correct. Yes. They've decided not to proceed with the appeal, >> right? And the affirm the 1366. Um what does that what's a what does it firm mean in this case? Um, it means that the um original penalty was held. >> Okay, that's what it means. Okay. Um, fair enough. Those are um those are my questions to staff, Mr. Chair. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Thompson. Other questions of staff on this item? >> Being none speakers? >> Councelor Thompson. >> Thank you. I'm happy to speak, Mr. Chair. I'd held this and I want to thank Mr. Somerville and team for coming in being here with us today. I think it's an important um you know area for us to garner information. This is the chair's annual report and I guess what we were going to do last time was just to kind of say yeah we read it and move on. But I think there's a need for the public to be aware and the questions that we've actually asked about obviously this this tribunal is I I believe important to the public to get a sense of understanding. I'm very encouraged by the executive director's comment about the fact that they asked about the timing and and I, you know, said like 6 months was a long time and she rightfully pointed out, you know, well, it used to take 18 months, right? And so we're obviously moving in a in a really good direction. Um, I'm I'm encouraged by the fact that um as part of the parking aspect, there is some empathy and then some compassion utilized. Um, and of course, um, as as one would obviously recognize when you have a camera catching you in the act, it's really hard to say, well, I didn't do it because there you are. Are is that you? Yes, that's me. Is that you committing that act? Um, I didn't realize I committed it. And so, I mean, you can make that argument, but that doesn't really hold a lot of water, quite frankly. So, at least it's you're able to at least address it through that process. Um I think you know just going forward um when these reports come forward I think there should be an expectation that the chair should come and be provided uh by this committee the opportunity to make a presentation. I mean you've done your annual report. It's a very extensive report. Um it's it's it's very detailed and it it covers a lot of the elements or concerns that the general public would have in terms of wanting knowledge and information. But I also think it's important to to be here to provide the details and so on because we do get calls, hey, I got a red light ticket. Um, where can I go to get it cancelled? That's always the case. And I say, well, I don't know where. Maybe in the US, the governors and or the mayors can cancel those, but as and and counselors or aldermans in the US can cancel. We don't have that authority, Mr. Chair. I don't even want it either. And so we have a process where people are able to um have their issues if there's hardships and uh you know there's cancellation opportunities and so on. So I'm encouraged by that. I can encourage um my residents to actually seek to work with the uh varying um elements of the board and and in the tribunal and the officers who are adjudicating the case. So I'm I'm very pleased with respect to this report and I'm thankful to Mr. Somerville and the executive director for responding to the question when I held it. I thought that this is something that we really needed to at least have a bit of a dive into to get sort of at least a highlevel overview and presentation. And so thank you for the presentation and I'm happy to move the item and thank the staff and the executive director for the work that's being done. And um that's it. >> Okay. Thank you, Councilman Thompson. My button's being finicky this morning. Other speakers. Councelor Holidayiday. >> Thanks, Mr. Chair. The the button here is doing the same thing. Uh but just yeah, thank you for the opportunity today that it was a a helpful presentation and helpful to ask um someone from the tribunal some of the questions. Um, but I'd only just um put an underline under the questions that I asked about um cancellations and reductions due to hardship for tickets uh because it's a complicated thing and it I think that's part of the public's confidence in the process and the answers today were really helpful and I would just encourage that to be uh continued to be entered into the reports that come to us so we as counselors can can keep an eye on this um and keep an eye on the policy around it. Uh, you know, you hear the stories, right, that that people say, you know, how come that that person got off the ticket and yet they're driving a car? Maybe it's an expensive car. I don't know. You know, I don't know what all the ins and outs are, but people see that. And so, I, you know, I really agree with what the chair said. There has to be a balance between disrupting someone's life and and having justice, uh, but also making sure that we've got deterrence. But I would add the the further lens of anyone looking from the outside in, that they feel confident that that decision was right and that there isn't suddenly a pathway where you can go to get off a ticket if you just wait the system out and show up with a story. Um, you know, these tickets are are are important uh to make sure that there's order out there on a on the streets. And some people will say, well, it's the city making money off of it. Yeah, I guess some money comes in, but you know, I'd be happy if there weren't any tickets because people were obeying the laws. Uh because they're in there the the laws are in place for a purpose, right? You know, I often talk about that around schools. You know, how come there's no stopping or no parking and it's because they're put in place for safety around the schools. So, you know, that's why we do these things as a council. So, I just wanted to leave that thought that I just think it's an in a very interesting area that should continue to be part of the reports. uh because I think it's important for council to to monitor this over time. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Holiday. Other speakers on this item seeing none. So, we have the recommendations before us. Moved by Councelor Thompson. All in favor? That carries. All right. Our next item is >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh >> thank you for coming in this morning. >> Much appreciated. Our next item is GG 30.5 amendment to purchase order number 60550184 with Herrari Pontorini architects for the enhanced state of good repair accessibility and net zero project at the St. Lawrence Center for the Performing Arts held by councelor Chang. Councelor Chang questions to staff. >> Hello chair. Thank you. Um I just wanted to understand the nature of this change order. So, we originally had this visionary redesign of St. Lawrence Center for the Arts, which the city uh I guess cancelled, and now we're transitioning to a scaledown redesign that takes care of SOGR and AODDA. And I'm just wondering what is the nature and scope of this change order and how does the previous design inform what this work will be? to the chair. Uh thanks for the question counselor. We went from a basically redevelopment an entire build to a renovation of the site. So we are transitioning the original scope of work to this scope of work and that's how this POA this uh change in the contract will address that and the new scope of work will include all renovations and all state of repairs on the site including accessibilities and net zero. So we went from a fully redeveloped building to a very extensive renovation is although it's not a fully redevelopment is still a very extensive renovation including net at zero and accessibility and how much of the feedback that was taken during that visionary redesign process will be taken into consideration towards this still significant renovation >> to the chair. There's several aspects of the schematic design that was completed on phase one of the forward development that can be informed can inform the new design and what level of consultation will happen uh moving forward for this scaled down version >> to the chair will consult with your life to make sure that stakeholders are all fully engaged into the new design. So, in the past for the visionary redesign that we're not doing anymore, there was actually a committee that spoke into it. They had a vision for how the St. Lawrence Center could be a cultural hub and it's still part of the strategic plan of TOI that all the locations that they manage would be cultural hubs. So, I'm just interested in, you know, we're going to go through this second design phase. This one is a scaledown one. And and what are the connection points between that vision of empowering the space to become a hub uh and how this new design is going to reflect those aspirations to the chair. Uh through a consultation done to the stakeholders by EDC that happened in the fall of 2025. One of the things that the stakeholders did provide to us was to focus on accessibility. That was a big item ticket item for them on the renovations and that is what we intend to focus. But as I mentioned, we will coordinate with T5 to make sure consultations with the stakeholders are held and that we take in consideration their points during the design phase, including a committee. >> And will the board of TO live also be kept in the loop of the progress on this design? >> To the chair, correct? He will. Actually, we have a presentation for the board this coming June to inform of the not only an overall state of good repair um and capital planning update but also a road map of milestones for the center of arts. >> Great. Thank you. Those are all my questions. >> Okay. Thank you, councelor Chang. Other questions of staff on this item? Seeing none, uh councelor Chang, did you want to speak on this item? >> Yeah, I'll just speak briefly. So you know we should be very proud of to live. It is actually uh in the top 10 revenue generating cultural institutions of Ontario and the model is such that the use of the three spaces that are managed by to live mer and the St. Lawrence Performing Arts Center uh that the revenue generated funds the development of art because it is not for profit. The money that comes from corporate rentals funds the development of arts in our city. And so I know a lot of people who worked on the original visionary redesign were quite disappointed when the city uh scaled back that ambition. But I'm hoping that in this new path forward, you know, Hari Ponerini uh architects are very well known in the city and they do they create landmarks. So even if they are doing a scaledown design, I think it will still be impactful uh as an art space in our city. So I look forward to this next phase of work as a board member of TO Live. I think that um having that conversation and learning more about the milestones and how this space will be designed so it's accessible and also can still be used as a cultural hub in our city in the heart of our city in fact uh is very important. So I look forward to that work and I thank staff for this uh journey that I think that this creme is now embarking on with T live to bring this to fruition. So thank you for this report and I'd like to move staff recommendations. >> Okay. Thank you councelor Chang. Councelor Chang is moving staff recommendations and GG 30.5. All in favor? And those carry. Our next item is GG 30.10 10 award of document 5389 5398199635 to Alberichi Constructors Limited for the new ultraviolet disinfection and residuals management facility at the Island Water Treatment Plant. Amendment to purchase order 6056811 and 6057463 with ACOM Canada ULC for contract administration and post construction services. Councelor Thompson, you held the item. questions to staff. >> Uh yes, thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Through you to staff, um what was the original number for the original contract was a value? >> Sorry. Uh to the chair, just clarification when you say the original value, the the the construction estimate or the the award value here is 333 million, >> right? >> Right. So the estimate, what was the estimate? Yeah, our construction estimate was approximately 250 million >> 250 or 229 two was it 250 or >> thereabouts yes I had about 2 I had 229 okay and so the upside now and so the increase is because of what the number of days that have been increased and so on because I look at the number of days you've gone from 1825 to 2008 so it's about 183 days in terms of um the increase is that the reason or >> to the chair uh yes that is one of the reasons >> what's the other reason then >> really u there is significant logistical constraints when constructing at the Toronto island um there's restricted site access uh limited layown areas uh it's dependent transportation for all materials and um there was also So recently some uh aspects around the potential of the province taking over Billy Bishop and there may have may be some risk allocation that the contractors put for potential additional restrictions but um yes our >> and that's added into the current increase in terms of the provincial government wanting to take over the island airport. Well, we we're not sorry through the chair. Um we concern I'm just trying to learn as well. Yeah. No, we're looking at um the reasons why the estimate was low, >> right? >> As in the leadup to uh preparing for tender and for establishing budgets. We look at all the factors around uh the work that's been done previously at the plant. our engineering consultant they have significant data and analysis and so yes in this case uh we were under estimated uh I think it's rare but I think uh in this case due to these constraints um around working at the island uh we did not u allocate sufficiently but the market uh and the low bid uh provides what we believe is and we are confident in the low bid that we've received. >> Okay. I think Mr. Lou where you like to add something. >> Yeah. I just want to add some things that we're seeing um with tenders right across Toronto Water especially the complex tenders such as as this one. Some of the other factors that we're seeing particular when we're buying uh equipment that's specialized which in this case we are the ultraviolet disinfection equipment is very specialized. Um and as well the electrical equipment we have to upgrade the entire electrical substation uh because ultraviolet technology uses a lot more electricity. So there's a significant upgrade uh going on with the electrical facilities and what we're seeing is worldwide demand on um switch gear. Uh a lot of that driven by um data centers where that are being built all over the place. They're buying up all that equipment. So there's been price escalations in in key components. Um this tender estimate we put together was a few months ago. So it was prior to all of these recent changes and we're now seeing this reflected in in a lot of our tenders. So that's something that we're going back to look at as part of our budget process. Yeah. >> Is taking a look at what's happening. On top of that, um the situation in in Iran that's driving costs up and uncertainties that was not factored in our estimate either. That occur our estimates were completed before that occurrence. >> You don't have a mad man formula as part of your characteristic to be able to implement into that. >> No, we don't have that capability predicted. >> Fair enough. Um, this jumped at me because there's a 32.7% variance above the estimate, right? That's kind of as a finance guy kind of jumps at you. That's sort of part of the rationale for asking the questions and so on. So, this is very very helpful. So, Mr. You want to add? Yeah, I do want to add something to that because um uh to be clear uh we have cancelled some tenders in the past where we saw significant variance of this nature. In this situation um there are two things that the reason why I I had recommended we proceed. Um number one was there's a regulatory requirement for us to deal with the backwash water at this plant. We are several years behind in doing that. So I was cognizant of of meeting our regulatory requirements. The second factor too um the reason why we wanted to push ahead is we had a delay with another project also tied to other regulatory changes. So there was available cash flow for us to reallocate this year. So that's where we were able to make it up by just deferring one large project at Ash Bridges Bay. So those two reasons of why um I was comfortable of coming forward to committee and council to ask permission. >> Thank you. Thank you Mr. Chair. Okay. Other questions? Councelor Holidayiday. Uh what's the catchment area for this water treatment plant? >> What does it serve >> through you, Mr. Chair? The island water treatment plant services essentially the the center core of the city. We push water up through John Street and then all the way up um the reservoirs. We can actually take some water um from some of the reservoirs on the north end and drop water back down in the west end of the city as well. So for example, if the Clark plant is down in in our Tobico community, we can push the water up and move it over into those reservoirs and back feed uh Tobico. >> How does it compare in proportion to the other treatment plants in the city? Is it you know is it is it on significant footing in terms of the volume it produces? So it is our busiest plant uh primarily because of the deep lake water cooling agreement that we have with N-wave. >> So we do maximize production at this facility. Uh when you look at capacity utilization, it is the highest uh it has the highest utilization rate uh because of the N-wave contract. Um and and so it is it is a plant. Um that's part of the reason why uh we are pushing um for for these regulatory changes in place because we're producing so much water. We do about 440 million liters um per year through this plant. >> How does the 440 million liters compare to the other plants in the city? >> So it it's in fact one of our smaller plants. It is the smallest water plant that we have but it is the busiest. So Ashbury sorry um RC Harris plant for example um can get up to 600 to 800 million lers okay a day. So it's double capacity. So we've got lots of capacity in the other plants but because of our deep lake water cooling arrangement this plant has to run um at a higher utilization rate. >> Could you explain the link to the deep deep lake water cooling through you, Mr. Chair. Yes, the linkage is is related to essentially trying to take the the um the cold the coldness from the water because we are taking water from um uh deep in Lake Ontario. It's 5 kilometers out, four intakes coming into the island plant. The water is at about 4° C year round and it goes through heat exchangers at um the John Street pumping station which then cools down a separate closed loop system that Nwave runs. So essentially we're taking that cold from the water cooling down um the the glycol system that um Nwave runs which then cools these buildings including this building. And so we're taking um we're taking that coal to reduce energy consumption. >> So because of the uh input from the lake for the deep lake water cooling, you've got to do something with all the water and that's why the plant's so big. >> That's why we're running it as as as much as we are running it, which is triggering the requirement to upgrade uh to meet regulatory requirements. >> Okay. And the last question, Mr. here. This is about a third of a billion dollars if I read the number right. Um, what's the overall replacement value of the plant? >> That plant probably, if I was to guess, and if you're building it on the island, uh, probably be four to5 billion in value. >> All right. So, this would be 1112th or 115th of the value of the plant. what's in front of us >> probably. Yep. >> Thank you very much. >> Significant building upgrade. We're adding a new building uh new treatment system and upgrading all the electrical. So, it is a significant upgrade to the plant. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Holiday. Uh speakers on this item. >> Can a point of order. Mr. Chair, I I had forgotten to ask a question and I at least for me it's important. I just wonder if you could and this is to would be to Miss Shy and >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you so much, Mr. Shy. You you've heard my question to the staff and water and Mr. um Derano and so on. The other gentlemen, I didn't get your name, sir, but thank you very much. Maybe you can let me know your name now. >> Yeah, certainly to the chair. Simon Hopton, I'm the director. >> Mr. Hopton, thank you, sir. Appreciate that. Thank you. Um no, through to Miss Shery. M sher you and your team have brought in um innovation and u sort of systematic changes to the procurement process and so on and you are integrating with different departments and what have you and so on you have assessed this particular contract and uh your assessment is >> uh through the chair >> that's my question Mr. here. >> Uh we have assessed that a it's a compliant contract that pricing provided is in line uh with though not exact but in line with what we could expect considering the factors that uh Mr. Derano had noted. >> Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. >> Thank you, >> Chair. I also have a question. >> Councelor Chang, a question. Go ahead. >> Yes. Thank you. Also to Miss Sharky. So often we put out bids and we're looking for the lowest bidder and then at some point something changes and it comes back and we have a lot of these actually today uh where there's a change in the order and we have to approve an increase and I'm just wondering do we keep track of these changes over time in terms of certain vendors are bidding low and getting the contracts and then they may have a um I guess a a history of unforeseen circumstances that result in a change order and an increase in cost because if cost is a primary factor in our choice of vendors, would it not put us at risk if we're not tracking the number of change orders that any given vendor um might have a history of >> uh to the chair. So I agree that is a risk which is why in our processes we actually have a number of uh processes that we do to ensure we mitigate that risk. Uh we do um unbalanced bid analysis for all bids that come in to again make sure that prices received all unit prices received across the board are again in line with what we would expect. It's not identical but there is a variance that we normally tolerate just to ensure that it is not what we call buying the business. Um on top of that uh we do also have the number of change orders and amendments as part of their performance evaluation. Uh and both of these factors are situations that if we see this happen too often or if we see a bid that is excessively low and a risk to the city, we would consider that bid non-compliant. Um we do track them. Uh we currently do not produce um a report or data regarding the number of change well number of POAs based on a supplier. Um but we do keep track of all POAS and we have been uh working on reporting for that. So when a company bids the lowest bid uh and then maybe there's a 10% variance with another bidder but then if we look at the history and the one with the lowest bidder has a history of change orders. Is that something that would create a red flag? and and potentially cause us not to choose the lowest bidder. So, >> sorry, Councelor Chang, just you're straying away from the topic at hand before us. >> Well, I I'm just curious about this particular change order, which is significant. Is there a history of this vendor having change orders um in terms of when we chose them, they were the lowest bidder? if I'm not mistaken. >> But you're straying away from the topic at hand. So, if you can stick to the topic at hand, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, I'm just trying to understand when we evaluated this bid and we chose this vendor, was there an analysis of previous change orders to inform this choice? >> To the chair. uh we did not review this supplier for previous purchase order amendments because purchase order amendments uh can very much vary on the rationale. Uh so it would be unfair to suppliers if we did do so. Um so in this particular case, no we did not. >> Okay, those are all my questions. Thank you. >> Thank you councelor. Uh speakers on this item. Councelor Thompson, you held it. >> Uh yes, thank you Mr. Chair. I mean I can I can move the item and I want to thank um obviously the staff for providing the responses is very helpful to me um to get a better understanding as to why the variance was such a significant variance above the actual initial um numbers uh 32.7 is quite uh significant and obviously I saw the days um differential which was initially um uh scheduled for 1825 days and moved up to 2,83 days more. And so it's helpful with the explanation that's been given and I'm thankful for that. Part of our job here is providing oversight and to look and review and assess and we know how important obviously this work is and um the technology while I may not understand all the technology and so on we rely on the professional staff to help us with respect to having a better understanding of the technology and the issue around cost and the variation and so on and I'm hopeful at some point um uh you know staff may come up with a category as part of our purch purchasing process where we have the madman formula that you have in there that uh talks about how we can address the issue and the irregularities with respect to changes in decision making that is no fault of our own but has great impact on uh cost of us doing business cost of the taxpayers and so on so forth when we are not uh driving the uh the train plane and or the water truck quite frankly but we see the costes uh escal ating. Um I don't have an issue with the process and I'm very thankful Miss Shy and team because the way she's planned it it's the way it's working and the conversations we've had. I'm boyed and encouraged by the process in terms of the inter departmental working and our procurement office giving that confidence that this is the way it's been designed. this is the way it's working and while the numbers are sort of you know um you know quite eyeopening um the validation and justification and verification are all supportive based on increased cost the site work and the you know underestimation of stuff that's under the ground and things that we have to you know the workers have to deal dig into and so on. So, I'm I'm encouraged by the uh responses to the question and I um I'm I'm happy to obviously move the item. It's a heck of a lot of money, but um unfortunately that's just the way things are these days in escalating costs and so on. So um uh you know 32.7% variance is quite significant and I just wanted to bring it to the attention of this committee that obviously we've looked at it and um giving the public the confidence that we are actually doing our job in looking and assessing and asking questions about these types of um um you know uh changes with respect to these contracts and that we've gotten solid answers to valid validate the rationale behind it so that there is at least a good understanding in terms of the justification. So with that Mr. Chair I can uh move the item. Thank you. >> Thank you councelor Thompson other speakers on this item. Seeing none councelor Thompson's moving the recommendations in number 10 all in favor that carries. And our next item is GG30.11 non-competitive bridge contract with Arcadus Professional Services Incorporated for the pro for the provision of the city's congestion management center operation services held by councelor Chang. Councelor Changen question to staff. >> Thank you. How many years has Arcadus been operating our congestion management center? uh through the chair for a period of five years >> and this is a a bridge so that they can continue to doing the their work during FIFA. What's happening on the other side? Are we intending to go back to an RFP or is the city going to develop its own operations? uh through the chair. We're actively working right now on a negotiated RFP contract that we're anticipating will come out in the fall of this year, pretty much immediately following FIFA. >> And who was doing it before Arcadus? >> Uh prior to Arcadus, it was Parson's uh corporation that was providing that service. So, is this a room where people are monitoring the traffic across the city and they're looking at places where they could potentially adjust signal timing or address uh arising traffic issues? >> Yeah, through the chair. The rescue congestion management center is the nerve center for all traffic management within the city of Toronto. So, it's often characterized through the media as the room where you see those operators looking at the wall of traffic cameras. Um, basically they provide 24 hours a day, 7 days a week support to monitor and adjust the traffic signal operations across the city's 2,500 intersections. They manage incidents and provide travel information to the public via tweets. They uh they provide emergency maintenance support to signals, signage, uh, road issues such as potholes and winter maintenance dispatcher support. They also provide dispatcher support to the traffic agent program and the school crossing program as well too. and and last year if you recall we've upgraded our roador's road closure notification system process. So they administer that process and they ensure that the fees are collected in a timely manner. So in essence the route uh provides essential services um from a public safety perspective congestion mitigation and uh mobility across Toronto. >> And who owns the technology in the room that Arcadus is operating out of? >> The city of Toronto owns the technology in the room. So it's a hybrid operation where we have our staff that are managing uh the operations in the center and then the highly skilled staff uh provided by Arcadus basically uh control the system software and and the tools and equipment. But uh the city of Toronto owns all the uh the equipment that's there >> and so there's city staff who are also present in that room uh working with the Arcada staff to manage the operations. >> That is correct. And um is there any escalation in terms of the I guess workforce during FIFA? Are there any preemptive measures being taken to address potential increases in traffic during FIFA >> through the chair? Excellent question. Absolutely. Um the benefit of having the contracted model of having staff that we can basically expand the resources in the room when we need and contract them when we don't. things are typically busier in the in the summertime because of uh construction and and maintenance related operations, this sort of thing. Um and again, when we have special events, we always staff up within the room to have additional support to provide support to our staff in effectively managing traffic. >> So that increase of capacity is through the Arcadus staffing. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> Great. Thank you. Well, um I think we definitely need to bridge this for FIFA and uh thank you for answering my questions. >> Thank you, Councelor Chang. Other questions of staff on this item? Councelor Holiday. >> Thank you, Chair. So, there's 2500 traffic signals. Can you tell me a little bit more about how the monitoring of them works? What are they looking at? How often do they look at it? How reactive are they? Yeah, >> that's today. >> Yeah. So through the chair, so basically it's a case where we have a whole bunch of traffic sensors across the city to the tune of like maybe thousands of uh traffic sensors across the city. These basically provide data on hotspots around the city in real time about where we're seeing congestion building not just regular congestion but non-recurring congestion sort of oddball situations which basically provides recommendations advice to the traffic operators in the room. The operators will then look at the cameras within the specific area and first try to triage and assess and confirm that the abnormal building traffic is not just because of an incident but it if it is an incident obviously there's a whole incident response that they go through. uh if it's regular if it's congestion related then they'll look at uh the timing cards that we have divided uh developed I should say look to see if there's opportunities or or suggested ranges or tolerance that they can make adjustments to the lights and they will effectively make those adjustments as as they see fit. So then this that last part I'm interested in. How quickly does a change to a light occur? If somebody notices a problem, building traffic, some issue that needs an adjustment, you need to add a couple of seconds to one of the greens, whatever. >> Uh through the chair, it varies, but um for the most part, any of the signals that have sort of fixed time type operations, we can make those types of adjustments fairly quickly. And so by way of the fixed time operations, that would be the majority of the signals in the downtown core. uh signals that are on the smart signal system, those basically adjust on their own. However, it is still possible for us to change the parameters of operation around those. It just takes a little more time. >> But you said fairly quickly and a little more time. Can you define that? >> Um changing the signal timings can happen within minutes. Um very very quickly. Yeah. >> All right. So does that happen uh frequently? Do are you changing timing every day >> through the chart? Absolutely. and we track those performance statistics. So, um last year, for example, there was over 1,750, uh traffic signal adjustments that were made um specifically related to cases where they observed um you know, abnormal congestion building and had to jump in and make those changes. That doesn't include the number of signal timing adjustments that we would recommend for special events or construction that we would pre-plan and then pass those instructions on to the operations team to implement them uh at the appropriate times. I'm surprised because it doesn't feel like it sometimes, but I'll take your word for it and I appreciate the work. So, I'll uh the follow-up question then is um what percentage of the 2500 intersections are you intervening on? Is it the top 10%, top five, top 1%? >> Uh through the chair, um there's I would flip the question the other way around. There's about 200 signals that are on smart signal technology that we rarely kind of intervene on because they're essentially running autonomous and making changes on their own. The other 2,300 were actively monitoring and changing. I would say that the most of the effort is spent I would say maybe about 80% in the downtown core versus the suburbs. But that's not to say that uh we don't again if we see an abnormality in the suburbs we'll definitely address it as well. So tell me more where could I see a list of the top uh 10% of the intersections or 5% or whatever stat is meaningful >> through the chair we could provide that uh information to you sever independently >> and then how many of those have cameras on them where you can have eyes so in addition to sensors you actually look >> uh through the chair we have roughly about 300 cameras within the city of Toronto >> um yeah >> but they're not all at intersections >> that's correct about 200 of them are at intersections there's about a hundred that are on the expressways. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh what would it take to get more cameras on intersections, especially the busy ones? >> Uh through the chair, we within our congestion management plan, we regularly include a budget for um we refer to it as intelligent intersections, the the budget that's allocated there. So that actually speaks reference to adding additional cameras, adding additional detection, multimodal detectors. um depending on the situation and the traffic management strategy that'll help us prescribe what level of of traffic monitoring we're looking for. >> The police have access to those cameras >> to the chair. Yes, they do. >> They do. And finally, um cameras uh well, when you put things up on on poles that are owned by hydro, that can become difficult because it's not our pole. Could you tell me a little bit about the relationship with hydro and the ability to install this some of the technology that we brought up in the I brought up in the questions? Uh does that is that working for you? Uh is are they a good partner? Because I you know I'd like to see this technology get out easier >> through the chair. We have an exceptional relationship with Toronto Hydro uh and partnership when it comes to this. So, um, for starters, we have a number of traffic signal, um, plants in terms of like master arms and signal heads that are actually mounted on Toronto hydro uh, street light pulse. Um, and that's been sort of a historic relationship we've had with them. But, uh, now that we're seeing more and more of these advanced technologies, um, you know, the multimotal sensors, this sort of thing, we've been working very closely with hydro opportunities if and when we see the need to install detection midblock and we don't have traffic signal poles there. Toronto Hide would basically allow us to mount on one of the street light poles. Obviously, we'd have to do a structural assessment, all those types of things in advance to make sure that it's safe. Um, but essentially, we there's a technology we use referred to as the whale spout that essentially gives us power and communications even midblock. >> How long does it take? >> All right, last question, counselor. >> Last question. How long does it take for you to go through the permission process with hydro? >> Uh, the permission process with hydro has been expedited. So when we first started doing this a few years ago, it did take a longer, I would say about a month or two to expedite, whereas because we started doing this more and more, we've got it down to about maybe a twoe turnaround relatively quickly. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Holiday. Other questions of staff on this item? >> Seeing none, uh speakers held by councelor Chang. Councelor Chang, did you want to speak? >> Yeah, just happy to move staff recommendations. Okay, councelor Chang's moving the staff recommendations. Other speakers on this item? Seeing none, all in favor of the staff recommendations? That carries. And our next item is GG30.23. Did I miss one? >> Sorry, I scrolled too far. GG30.14. Thank you, Matthew. non-competitive contracts for the provision of the city's traffic electrical management, emergency services, and traffic electrical plan capital works roster held by councelor Thompson. Councelor Thompson, questions of staff. >> Uh yes, Mr. Chair, and in fact, Mr. Brown has answered a number of uh questions about the number of signals and cameras and so on so forth. So, um um let me just see here. Okay. So, I guess really what I wanted to know though was about this item. Um, why was this procurement schedule allowed to I use a term slipped to this point where a 12 month um non-competitive extension became necessary? Obviously, we knew that this contract was coming due and so on. So, why was it necessary to have this extension during this uh situation? It's uh it's the most um um significant uh time in our history because we're hosting the FIFA games which should be in about 11 days. I'm just curious as to why we didn't have sort of an advanced plan. Uh or did we? Thank you. Uh through the chair. So there's there's a couple of reasons why um we basically suspended and wanted to do the extension. Uh FIFA is one of them. So if we had a new contractor um awarded the existing contractor, we'd want to make sure that they were fully engaged throughout the game. So not that our contractors wouldn't act professionally, but we wanted to remove that risk just in case. So that was one of the reasons. Another large reason is the findings of our auditor general and the forensic audit associated with the the winter contracts that we recently heard through uh IEC. Um there was a number of recommendations that came through that and and the division uh met and we thought given the size and scope and importance of this contract that we would pause the contract do a deeper dive into our terms and conditions to ensure that they were in line with the recommendations of both the auditor general and the forensic audit completed by KPMG. And and what we've done is we've uh we're in that process now of doing a deeper dive into the contract to sure that we are in alignment that these uh these uh contracts um are in align with the recommendations of both the auditor and the forensic. Um again, it's a multi-year contract, large value, so we want to make sure we're getting it right. So you had great concern about disruption and the possibility of just some technological chaos in terms of making the shift when we're having this really really important significant uh event taking place in the city. You wanted a more smooth uh transaction >> through the chair. Yes. in particular um a lot of the sensors that Roger was talking about monitoring congestion particularly around the event spaces um would are maintained by our electrical maintenance contractors. So um to reduce any potential risk uh we thought it'd be prudent to extend. >> Great. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those are my questions. >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Thompson. Other questions of staff on this item? Seeing none, uh, speakers on this item, councelor Thompson, >> I don't need to speak. I think it's pretty clear and evident as to the explanation that's been provided. I think it's prudent and actually wise, quite frankly, in terms of taking the action. Um, and so I can just simply move the item, Mr. Chair. >> Okay. Thank you. Councelor Thompson's moving the recommendations on number 14. All in favor? That carries. And our next item is GG 20, sorry, 30.23, 23 occupational health and safety report end of year 2025 held by councelor Thompson. Councelor Thompson questions of staff >> the chair. Thank you. I'll get there. Um yeah. So 23. Yeah. So I I mean this is a really important report. Uh I just wanted to get a sense. I don't know where this is that Hi. How are you guys? Um um Mr. I I wonder would you mind just introducing yourself? I don't think we really met before. I just wonder if you can just That's my first question. >> Yes. My name is Toby Matthew and I'm the interimm chief people officer. >> Ah fantastic. Thank you. And you are sir. >> Hi. Good morning. My name is Afjan Muhammad. I'm the director of occupational health. >> Thank you so much. Thank you. And so my question to you about what's um driving the increase in the injured severity um which are in fact um taking our staff much longer to recover from what's driving them? What is the problem? >> Um thank you for the question uh uh through the chair. We have a a couple of cost drivers uh that are affecting WSIB costs. Primarily we have two major components. One is presumptive um cancers in firefighters and the second is presumptive PTSD in first responders. >> All right. And what's causing the cancers in firefighters? Do we have that information? I mean cuz it's jobreated then, right? >> Thank you for the question. Yes. Um through the chair. Uh the these are all occupational cancers. So, these are a listing of uh multiple cancers that have been approved through the government of Ontario that if a firefighter has a diagnosis of a particular type of cancer, it's deemed to be automatically uh workplace related and then uh the WSIB claim would be approved. >> So, I I I get that. But um I guess if medical officer of health was here, I'd be like asking her like what can we do to reduce the risk uh for the firefighters? Obviously, we want them to retire when they're done their years of service and enjoy their retirement and so on, but we know that their lives are being cut short and because of occupational issues. And I don't know if you have that information or you can provide that at this point. I'm happy to wait if you don't have it, but I' we'd like to get a sense of that if that's possible. >> Sure. Uh generally speaking, uh through the chair, um when we're looking at uh occupational cancers, we're looking at the hazards that are related to that. So, a lot of them have to do with the uh um workplace hazards that the firefighter would be exposed to. A lot of them are like with smoke related uh hazards. Um what control mechanisms would be in place to kind of uh to protect workers would include um upgrades in types of of gear and ventilation in like specifically like bunker gear would be um um um relevant in in in these type of scenarios. But of course these are just general um aspects. But if you'd like some more information we can we can get back to you. Well, so my question then would be, are we providing them with the right equipment and the right gears that they need to reduce the risk even further? Obviously, I suspect that there's some degree of risk in however you slice it. But is is there an opportunity to reduce that delta so it becomes a lower number? We provide a better opportunity, better outcome for our um emergency personnel and so on. And I do have a couple more questions. So, if you wouldn't mind the shorter answer. >> Sure. Sure. Um uh yes. So uh uh my understanding is that the uh science behind this has evolved significantly. When we're looking at occupational cancers, they um uh are always retro back to like 1960s. So it could uh so the the science has changed significantly. >> Okay, great. And with specifically to um the paramedics and firefighters in terms of uh PTSD uh PTSD claim, what are we doing to kind of help with respect to these issues? There's more psychological nature. You help me to understand sort of the programs that are in place to prevent these things and uh how are we helping? And I have two more questions. So I just have about 30 seconds. Uh yes. Uh I I believe that uh there are actual staff uh psychologists available within within the divisions and um they have some programs that are specifically for first responders. >> Gotcha. And then why are uh muscular skeletal injuries uh still increasing in in sort of particularly the frontline workers and uh what lessons uh can we learn from the one single uh workplace uh fatality that we actually have as part of um your report in terms of what system changes may be needed to prevent that to bring that to zero. >> So two questions there. >> Sure. So for muscular disorders, we have a uh policy and program uh within the city of Toronto that has been in place since about 2007. We've been significantly looking at the hazards associated with MSDS. So posture force repetition and uh looking at design changes, the way that um um posture force repetition is used in various workplaces. So that's kind of a major program that we have at the city. In terms of the uh fatality that occurred that was uh that occurred last year in solid waste management services and uh there was a ministry of labor uh investigation as well as internal investigations. Uh um there's many factors like behavioral factors and and and and vehicle related factors. Uh we can get back to you with those details if you >> had a similar one in another municipality just last week, right? So yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you councelor Thompson. Councelor Burnside. questions of staff. >> Yeah, thank you. Um, so regarding PTSD with first responders, specifically fire and police, if we can kind of parse those out. Um, what's the trend? Is it consistent? Uh, well, let's say from 2018 to now, we'll go through COVID up to now. It is, that's my first question. Is it consistent or is it going up or down? >> Uh, it's it's consistently an upward trend. Um so and it has been uh since the legislation was introduced in 2016. >> So okay so the legislation was in legislation was introduced 2016 um and it's been an upward trend. Any potential reason or speculation as to why like now that people know about it or is there something else going on? >> Um thank you for the question. Yes, I think there's also it it's it's in relation to the health care system as well like there are uh there's less stigma related to mental health uh and uh people are seeking assistance uh as they should with their healthcare practitioners and getting the diagnosis uh through the presumptive legislation. As long as there's a diagnosis of PTSD from a psychologist or psychiatrist, it will be deemed workrelated uh if if if they fall under the one of those groups. and the WSIB will approve those. >> So, could you theoretically work in a uh downtown and police downtown and headquarters and have been there 20 years and and really taking on an office job, but uh then be diagnosed with PTSD and it would be presumptive or do you have to actually be out in the field? >> Uh, so I'm not versed in the police. the police are not um as part of this report, but it would be for um for paramedics and for firefighters. >> Okay. So, could they be in an office situation and still claim it or do they have to actually be out on the road? >> Um I'd have to look into the WSIB policy for that for the specific details. They do list out a number of criteria. That's uh >> Would it be possible just to send me that answer at some point? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, councelor Burnside. Other questions of staff on this item. >> Seeing none speakers on this item? Councelor Thompson? >> Oh, I think you're going to speak. Um, yeah. No, I want to thank staff for the report and so on and um obviously the men and women that are working um in these uh areas of our city uh are valuable members who do great work and um yeah them sort of payment the WSIB um um you know payment and so on is or the cost is interesting but I think what is greater in terms of cost is the costs of lives, right, in terms of um our workers um having um being impacted by cancer or PTSD and so on. And we have to figure out what we can do to help. And I there's a lot of moving parts in that. It's very complex. I know it's not just uh you know um a wish and that uh things will change or they will improve. But I'm I'm encouraged that um a lot of work is being done and we do provide um great mechanism for the workers to be able to be assessed and to get psychological treatment and uh other uh assistance and help as they need um particularly relates to you know the psychological aspect and um I'm encouraged by the investment that we're putting into uh these areas and uh even with respect to how uh things are done. Many years ago, Mr. Chair, you may remember this. Um our um waste collectors used to go and having to lift all those bins and put into the trucks and so on. And we saw the number of people who were suffering from variety of different elements and injuries and so on and then the automated system was designed where you have this lift the arm picks it up and put in a truck and so on. We were around Mr. chair that when we made those changes and so on, then we've seen an improvement in the overall health and well-being of um of some of uh of our workers and so on. And um while this is not um um gerine to this, I I learned just a few days ago, Mr. Chair, that some of our contracts allow for um some of our workers to have um in excess of um and I don't know how true it is. I haven't investigated, but I'm going to say it anyways that it's like a shocking number. It's like up to 100 days you could have off sick and there's a whole process that you go through. But I was um quite um uh surprised at that. And uh so my my point to that is that those number of days when you're off sick um it's interesting if you're sick, you're sick. But the fact of the matter is that um when you have situation in terms of workplace if you could make uh the workers's lives better by reducing the situation where you may sprain an ankle or risks or any other type of um incidents that could occur um you know through design and so on. And if you can reduce the impact of that, I think we have to make sure that we look at all of those um issues. And well we saw that the numbers are you know such that um I guess in a large organizations like ours those numbers relatively are relatively small right I mean that that's my sense of it right I don't know whether or not you others will agree but it's significantly small but if we can make it even smaller it makes it for better opportunity for our workers and particularly you know after they retire I hear about firefighters who have hearing issues because of the alarms and the bells that associated with that. We we've learned and we've long known about cancer and I know the provincial government has made changes to make it easier for those individuals suffer and their families and so on and I'm all for that. But if there is a way going forward that we can actually improve the system to make it better and safer for all of those workers and so on. I think that um we we should and obviously encourage it. I'm sure everybody's in agreement with that. I think we can all agree to that. But I just wanted to ask the questions uh as it relates to this report to get a better sense of understanding and um there's a high cost um you know although the numbers have come down as you've said in this report there's it's only like a million dollars plus or something that's still uh you know 71 plus million dollars that we're spending on WSIB and so on. So if there's ways I want to make sure that um and and I'm not suggesting that it's not being done. is being done. But I'm encouraged by the fact that we are at least talking about this today. We're learning more about what's actually being done to help those men and women who are all stars in terms of the work that they do to make this city function and work better. And so um with that, Mr. Chair, I can move the item. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Thompson. Councelor Thompson moving the recommendations in number 23. All in favor? That carries. Our next item is GG 30.24. 24 non-union separation costs for 2025 held by councelor Chang. Councelor Chang, questions of staff. >> Thank you, Chair. Actually, I had my questions answered offline, so I'm happy just to move the recommendation. >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Chang. Any other questions of staff on item number 24? Seeing none, uh moved by councelor Chang. All in favor? That carries. Our next item is GG 30.25 25 animate Nathan Phillips Square. So, um there's a letter before us that I sent in just I'm asking facilities and real estate staff to look at the installation of more chairs and benches on Nathan Phillips Square. >> Sure. >> Chair, I have a question. >> Sure. Councelor Holiday. >> Oh, okay. >> Councelor Chang, you can't hear me off mic, but I I promise I did ask first. Um my my question is actually uh I think easy. Um are is the city uh able to uh have discretion on the type of fixtures it puts in the square or are there restrictions uh for heritage reasons or architectural considerations or anything else that we need to know about? Uh to the chair, uh there are multiple considerations on Nathan Phillips Square for fixtures or amenities that we might install, including heritage, uh among others, security, uh a number of them. Yes. >> Okay. Um do we have the the right to reproduce uh some of the fixtures that are already there? Like there's existing benches by the by the the reflecting pool. Are we able to to build new ones that look the same if we wanted to or are they are they um copyrighted or locked down? >> To the chair, to the best of my awareness, we can replicate those. Uh and we certainly do so as they're damaged and need to be replaced. Uh so additional ones would follow the same kind of path. Um, and just based on what you see in the the letter before you, this is something that's achievable that you can navigate those complexities, right? So, you have to take a lot of considerations uh into account including the uniqueness of the square. So, it's it's not like just a city park where you can put a fixture in there. There's a little bit more to the decision making, but do you feel confident to the committee that you can you can achieve what's been asked? Certainly we can examine the issue with the sufficient time to consult our internal stakeholders. Um we would need to make sure we can attend to urgent issues like FIFA at the moment. Uh but certainly with a bit of lead time we could look into those issues and and report back. Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you councelor Holiday. Councelor Cheng questions of staff. Actually, I have a question of the mover if the if he would be um open to friendly amendment to add Mel Lassman Square for consideration. And I don't know if councelor Thompson would want to add Scar Bro Civic Center, but we have our highest number of summer permits this year. And there is also um some areas that could use some additional seating. And this is very creative. It looks very relaxing. and just wondering if uh you would be open to that amendment. >> Yeah, I'm fine with that amendment. Councelor Thompson, did you want to? >> I'm fine. Absolutely. Anything for Scar Bro. Any investment, I'm happy to receive it. >> Thank you. >> So, hold on. Can I ask a question? This is a an added I it's yours is Nathan Phillips Square, then you're adding Scar Bro, then you're adding North York, so we can vote on them separately. >> No. So, this is this was originally for Nathan Philip Square. Councelor Chang wants to move a friendly amendment for me last one square and believe councelor Thompson's adding on Campbell Square. >> Can I ask a question >> of me? >> I don't care. Anyone that can answer it. >> Fire away. I'll do my best. >> Where are we getting the money? >> Sorry. >> Where are we getting the money >> at the moment? I don't know. That's why I'm asking staff to report back. Okay. there's no money like look at doing it in 2027 if it's feasible. I'll speak quickly. Can I speak? Yeah. Okay. Like >> we're going into an election and we're asking staff to do yet another report. U there's a cost to doing reports and then to add North York and Scar Bro and everybody else. This is just to me a bit of a fool's game. I get the Nathan Phillips square, but let's all add let's all just add our little pet project for money we don't have. So staff will come back. They'll take uh 3 days to investigate. We'll tell us what we already know, but I guess we can all put it in our newsletter. >> Thank you, councelor. For the record, my newsletter is already out. It's too late. >> Mine's ready, too. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, just to speak. I mean, look, um, you're asking staff to take a look at it and so whether or not it's feasible or not, I don't know. Um, we have lots of benches in Scar Bro, like we're pretty good, but look, if somebody if you want to take a look at that area, Albert Campbell Square as well to see if there's any additional things that can be done as in North York's case. I mean, obviously, give us the information. We may or may not be able to do it. And to the counselor's point, I mean, I think it's it's it's a good question like where's the money going to come from? we may get this report and it says uh well it's going to be you know rather costly and we say oh okay we we shelled that for now but at least let us have the information I think then we can make the decision. >> Thank you councelor Thompson other speakers councelor Chang. >> Thank you. I just want to thank Deputy Mayor Aninsley for bringing this motion because I think we need to inject our civic squares with some uh I think creative furniture and this definitely I think would draw more people into our spaces and I do believe that our Scarboro Civic Center and North York Civic Center as well as the future Tobico Civic Center are important civic squares. They're not just uh you know a pet project or a pet space of any one person and in fact many people for many people these are the spaces where they experience their city. So I think that this report hopefully it won't be too much work will be an important opportunity for us to consider how to inject some fun as well as some usefulness to our squares. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Chang. Councelor Holidayiday, I >> I'll just add what I hope is a constructive comment is to first look at what is already there at the facilities and find out if you can move any of the benches first to a better location before we go and buy a new one. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Holiday. Um, and so I just I put this motion forward not for my newsletter or Sorry. >> Yep. Yep. So, uh, part of my comments around this, so if you look up at Nathan Phillips Square, most of the benching is around the reflective pool or or on the sides under the walkway. Um, I get comments often about um why there's not more seating, why we can't be a little more creative. um often over the past couple years I think that's also played out um because the band shell or the has often had fencing in front of it. So there's been very little seating on Nathan Phillips Square other than on the parameters of it. So I think that you know there's an opportunity here that we could look at for more seating, more creative seating. Um so that's why I put this forward. Thank you. All right. So we have the amended motion before us. All in favor? Opposed? And that carries. Thank you. >> Item as amended. All in favor? Opposed? And that carries. Thank you. Bills. No bills today. Motion to adjurnn. Councelor Thompson. All in favor? That carries. Thank you.