from England. >> Okay. And it looks like we're live. So, I'll hand it over to Karen. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> [clears throat] >> Uh members of the public are advised that individuals and the media may be audibly and or visually recording this meeting. I would like to call this meeting of the Heritage Permit Review Subcommittee, October 13th, 2026 to order. And please note that quorum is present. Uh committee, [clears throat] you have before you the agenda for this meeting. May I have a motion to approve the agenda as presented? I see Andy and I see Graham. Is there anyone opposed? Okay, seeing none, that motion is carried. Thank you. Uh are there any declarations of interest today? I see none. Declare. Okay. And um >> [clears throat] >> approval of the minutes of previous meetings. So, you have before you the minutes from HPRC 2026-009, September 15th, 2026. Um may I have a motion to approve the minutes as presented? I see Graham and I Do I see Steve? >> No. >> No. >> I have a I have I have a question on the minutes. >> Oh, okay. Please go ahead, Graham. >> Yeah, we had asked uh last time a way to prevent the vines from regrowing and there's no mention in the meetings and the minutes of that as being a condition of that permit. >> Lisa, uh do you have further information on that? >> Uh yep, through the chair. I'll just share my screen. I believe we did include it. Um so, condition two is that vines be cut at the base and left left to die off prior to removal from the structure, and that root treatment be explored in order to prevent any vine regrowth. >> Yeah, thank you, Ms. Adams. >> no worries. >> Okay. Thank >> Okay, thanks. Uh okay, do I have a mover and a seconder to approve the minutes? I see Graham. I see Carol. Thank you. Okay. And is there anyone opposed? Seeing none, that motion is carried. So, on to the heritage permit applications for this evening. So, they're found under section six of your agenda. The first one is uh HP 2026-027 pertaining to 71 Main Street West in Hamilton, which is Hamilton City Hall, part four property, and the application is for installation of hostile vehicle mitigation barriers and repairs to existing barriers at the following locations. So, main one, which is access point along Main Street West perpendicular to Summers Lane, and main two, access point along Main Street West further west from main one. And please note, committee, um that a similar scope of work was previously approved as part of HP 2021-051, and since approval at that time in October 2021, work has been completed related to main three, bay one and parking one. And so, this heritage permit today aims to support the final portions of the property which require hostile vehicle mitigation barriers. So, do we have a representative for this application with us today? >> Yes, that would be myself. >> Um oh, and could you Okay, could you state your name and if you if you want to put your camera on, cuz I don't think you Great. Okay. So, that's Chris Garno and yeah, so if you want to further describe the project a little bit for a few minutes, that would be great. If you have nothing further to say, then we can debate and so, carry on. >> Uh yeah, just I appreciate everyone's time today. Thank you for having me and for the review process and taking your time to do to review our project here. As mentioned, yes, it is a continuation of a previously already ongoing project where we've gotten to about three quarters of the project installation of bollards around the Bay Street entrances and that Summer's Lane entrance. Um we uh essentially did not complete in that first phase because the workmanship from the contractor was not up to what we deemed as appropriate standard. Um that is why the remaining scopes of work now at Main 1 and Main 2, well, sorry, Main 1 which has been completed, but there is poor concrete installation, poor concrete cuts and they did some damage to the existing stainless steel sleeves of the bollard of the bollards. So, the Main 1 scope of works is essentially corrective. It would be to remove the existing concrete and street side rail. Um remove the sleeves at the bollards of Main 1 and then put new concrete, new sleeves and proper concrete control joint cuts. Um at Main 2 is going to be implementing the remaining outstanding bollards there as a need for the security there. So, we had to come up with a new layout which essentially conformed to the stakeholders of city hall. The forecourt being a a very rented out and used space by the community, as well as horticulture needs frequent access to do their plant watering. Forestry has to come. They do the Every year we do a Christmas tree down there as well. So, there needs to be access coming and going onto the forecourt. Main Main two is that is that desired location of coming and going. Um so, we had to come up with a strategic layout of how we wanted the bollards done to maintain security requirements while also providing access. So, that is the layout that we have all come together with the stakeholders and my design team to bring out that main two there, which you guys will see if if you haven't had already a chance to take a look at it. But, yeah, I'm here if you have any questions throughout your debate and yeah, happy to be of service and appreciate you guys' time. >> Okay, thank you. Appreciate that, Chris. Um uh do we have any questions for the applicant? Oh, okay. Uh Matthew, please go ahead. >> Yeah, thanks, Chris. Uh thanks for the the presentation. Um did uh did the city consult with or rather did the city uh review uh similar um arrangements that are placed for other large um civic spaces? I know, for instance, Union Union Station, Toronto, just added some new uh lock style uh uh uh vehicle prevention uh bollards. Um I know there's no shortage of them in Ottawa. Uh I believe Toronto City Hall has some as well. I was just curious about um whether or not you sort of scanned uh the neighboring uh municipalities for uh what their standards were. >> Yeah, absolutely we did. So, we actually had a study done by ZeroBit, which identified other municipalities and what they use as security measures around their city halls and then it also did an impact study on city hall itself, our Hamilton city hall, to review all potential locations of of of of potential you know, potential risk around city hall and with that they identified um thresholds that we need to meet in regards to the actual bollards themselves having to have an impact resistance of various weights for the vehicles as well as uh what what was a miles per hour and kilometers per hour impact that it could withhold. So we we did we did an impact study through zero back zero bit. We identified all the locations and the remaining location that we have to do in this project that we're looking to is at main two now. >> Okay, thank you. Uh are there further questions, comments from the committee? Okay. All right. Um So so may we see the proposed conditions then on this application, Lisa? Okay, so there are the two center conditions. One that any minor changes to the plans and elevations following approval should be submitted to the satisfaction and approval of the director of planning. And also the second point being that installation implementation should be completed no later than October 31st, 2029. So normally we give two years, but this one we give three years and as I understand it, Lisa, that's just to make sure that they have enough time to work through Is that correct? >> Yeah, for the chair, I've just given them an extra year just based on previous um timelines for how long it took. Um I I believe the first permit was also 3 years, the original permit. >> Okay. So, thank you. Um may I have a mover and a seconder then to um recommend approval of Heritage Permit 027 subject to the two staff recommended conditions. I see Sandra and I see Andy. Okay. Thank you. And uh Is there anyone opposed? Okay. I see none, so that motion is carried. Uh so, thank you, Chris. Um Heritage staff will be following up with you on next steps. So, I appreciate you coming in. Good luck with the >> Appreciate you guys' time today. >> Okay. Looks good. It looks good so far. So, you know, I I didn't notice any of these flaws, so there you go. >> Please feel free to reach out reach out to me if you guys have any further questions or any other inquiries. Absolutely. I appreciate you guys' time today. Thank you. >> Okay. Thanks. Hey, our next application for this evening is uh 6.2, so HP 2026-028 pertaining to 126 James Street South, which is in Hamilton, which is Hamilton Conservatory of Music, a Part 4 property. And the application is for installation of a 60-unit solar panel array on the roof of the two-story 1906 structure. Um do we have a representative for this application here this evening? >> Uh yep, I am from SolarFire, we're the uh solar installation company. My name is Marvin. Um I'm in the administration, so I'm just here to help uh answer any general questions or anything that needs from you guys. >> Okay, thanks for joining us, Marvin. Um committee have all had a chance to look at the pre-reads. So, do you have any questions for the applicant? Okay, I see two. So, we'll start with uh Graham and then Matthew second, please. Graham, go ahead. >> Well, thank you for coming in. Uh how visible will this be from the street? >> Um yes, so we had a look at the Google Street View. Um it won't be visible to anyone there. I believe Lisa um only informed us that it was visible from only one other street. Um let me pull up the email she sent me. But yeah, from the street view we checked and it's not visible and the she mentioned that it was What is it? >> Uh through the chair, I can share an image if that's helpful. >> Yeah, it was another another street. I just couldn't find the name of it, but um yeah. >> That'd be helpful. Thank you. And so, this photo was from a site visit taken a few um years ago, but this is from the sidewalk across the road. So, from street, you barely see the roof as is. Um and then within within the uh files, we also have that they're very low profile. So, this is an example of um another project done with the same materials. Is that correct, Marvin? >> Uh yeah, it's the exact same panels and melting uh as this project. >> So, this will only be slightly visible from the side street, then. I'm digging it. Okay. >> Yep. >> So, that's That's great. I think it's fantastic that the owner wants to modernize the building in such a way to reduce the carbon impact and use such a a low visual impact way. I think that's great. So, thank you. >> Okay, thank you. Matthew, please go ahead. >> Oh, Graham had the exact same question I had. And that was it was answered perfectly fine. Thank you. >> Okay. Is there anyone else who'd like to ask any questions or make any comments? Okay, yeah, I was pleased. I mean, I think the thing is because it's so high up, that building is just so high up above the street, you you really can't see anything on the roof at all. It's surprising actually that that you couldn't mount them further back, but I understand the engineering study said that that's not the right uh that wouldn't support them properly, the panels. >> Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't structurally sound in the back, so we could only do it on the flush part. Otherwise, yeah, we did initially place them in the back, but yeah, but when we got to engineering, they that's what they told us, so. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay, well, that being said then, um may we see the proposed conditions, please, Lisa? >> Sorry, I had to find them again. >> Okay, so thank you. So, they are the two standard conditions and nothing specific for this application, and this one has a 2-year expiry date. So, um that being said, I may have a mover and a seconder to recommend approval of heritage permit 2026028 subject to the staff recommended conditions. I see Carol and I see Matthew. Okay. And um is there anyone opposed? Okay, I see none, so that motion is carried. Okay, great. So, thank you for coming in, Marvin. Appreciate your time. Um, good luck with >> Thank you for having us. >> And I hear you're just going to be following up on next steps with you. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Have a good day. Take Take care. >> Okay, thanks. Okay, our next application is 6.3 on the agenda, HP 2026 0 29, which is for 440 Victoria Avenue North in Hamilton, which is the Otis Benz Mill Office building, part four property. Oh, Graham, please, yes. Do you have a question? >> I'm going to comment to make. I forgot Megan Hobson was on this project. So, like all things until we solve our local organizing committee for the air have to declare a non-disqualifying conflict. >> Yeah, okay. Noted. Thank you. Okay, I will So, this is for Yeah, 440 Victoria Avenue North in Hamilton, the Otis Benz Mill Office building, part four property. And the application is for construction of a new addition on the north and east elevations, repairs to the exterior, including installation of new aluminum clad wood windows, masonry repairs and cleaning where necessary, installation of new doors in existing and brick infill of two non-original openings to match surrounding masonry. And the committee may remember we saw this It was a pre-consultation a few months ago on this. And so, here we are with the actual application. So, do we have a representative from the project here today? I see Megan. Is there Is Rick also on the project? >> Rick's here, too. >> Yeah. Wonderful. Okay, welcome, both. And um Is there anything you would like to add to the introduction? >> No, we have a short presentation. Um so we'll we can do that. Yeah. >> Okay, please go ahead. Usually we ask that it stick to 5 minutes, but we've been going pretty quickly, so hopefully we should be fine. So carry on. >> Okay. >> [laughter] >> Okay. Um good evening everybody. Thank you for having us here again. Um as you're familiar with it already, I I won't go into too too much detail, but there's just a couple of updates since the last meeting. Um Uh so this is uh a new Stelco office uh building will be um um put into this heritage building that's currently vacant. Uh Rick Lintack Lintack Architects is uh the architect. Uh he's on the call today to talk about the design design revisions that were done since the last meeting. Uh I'm working as the heritage consultant, and Matt Johnson from Urban Solutions is doing the planning application. Uh he wasn't able to be here tonight, but he was here last time. Um next slide, please. Um so here's uh sorry that I think it skipped forward. To go back. Yeah. So this is So it's a very important industrial site. It was the headquarters for Otis, and that that then became Otis Fenson. They made elevators, one of the largest elevator companies in Canada, if not North America. And then later became the Studebaker plant. Uh and in between that it was also um sort of used during World War II to uh make munitions. It's a it's a it was originally a very large industrial site that occupied a a block of land. Uh, and this is uh uh shows the um office building that was built in 1912. The The site itself evolved since sort of between 1902 to to to the 1950 up to the 1950s, so we're still building buildings on the site. Uh, the next slide shows you one of those sort of um mid-century buildings. So, that was added for the Studebaker company. So, there were a a lot of buildings on the site. In 19 uh 2012, uh the owners demolished the factory buildings with permission uh and retained the corner office building. So, next slide, please. So, this is what we're left with today. So, it's been vacant for a while uh since 19 since 2012. Uh, and you can see that it's boarded up uh and there has been some sort of um water damage and some graffiti and vandalism that's happened since that time, but in general, the masonry's in in good condition and it's a really great opportunity to uh restore this building. Uh, next slide, please. So, this was it before uh the factory buildings were demolished. So, this is in 2012 and this is what it looks like today. Uh, here's an aerial view that gives you a good idea of this corner section. So, this is protected under the designation bylaw. Um and it has um sort of these architectural facades on Victoria Avenue North and Ferry Street. The other two elevations, so the east elevation and the north elevation, are where the additions were for the factories were um were taken down. So, you can see that they don't have the architectural embellishment. So, on the photo on the right, this is a photo that I took recently to show the kind of condition that it's in and that's that east elevation that doesn't have any architectural detailing. So the new addition, that red dotted line on the left, is the area where the new addition will be added to the existing building. So all of the existing building will be preserved and then the new addition will be on that north north side. Next slide, please. So here's a plan view. Um So the on the right and the pit shaded pink is the heritage building. Now you can see there's a line of blue along the top there, but that's because that's that facade that's that's exposed. That was where the factory additions were. So this is going to be new work on that side. And then just really just closing off this sort of rectangular plan in plan. So that looking from Victoria Street, there's just a bit of an addition. And then looking from on the left and and above there, you can see there's there's full new elevations on those sides. So that's the north and the east sides. Um the other thing about the addition is there's still there's a slight step back on Victoria Avenue. So that just allows for that return in the masonry to be preserved. So that's a nice feature and that will also occur on the Ferry Street elevation where it transitions to the contemporary elevation. The masonry return detail will be preserved. Uh Next slide, please. So this is what we presented in August and then there were some comments. In general, everybody was very supportive. The massing, the height of floor, you know, the floor heights and the fenestration were all kind of Um and the materials were referencing the heritage building and it was a nice complimentary addition. There were some comments about the uh curtain wall and uh treatment of that area could could be improved to be more sympathetic to the kind of the rhythm and the materials of the heritage building. So, um the next slide this is um the changes that uh we've come up with and you can see that the um there's a slight change in the rhythm, so the windows are kind of grouped in in groups of two on the front and four on the sides and there's kind of that vertical emphasis with the darker uh spandrel as sort of a feature in between and then the dark spandrels horizontally kinds of ties ties in the darker masonry of the heritage building. So, I'm really really happy with these changes uh and Rick here is is here tonight, so he can just kind of go over uh his kind of approach. So, I'll just turn it over to um Rick for a couple minutes and then I'll finish the rest of the presentation. >> Uh hello everybody, can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Okay, but you can't see me though. >> No. >> Okay, I I don't know what to do about that. Anyways, that doesn't matter. Um the uh yeah, what we've done is we as Megan as Megan explained we've we've looked at that curtain wall portion again um and we've actually introduced a vertical spandrel where we actually have structural structural behind it. So, it actually uh does uh two purposes. Uh it sort of uh reconciles the column on the inside and it does provide a bit more verticality uh breaking it up into smaller little bits. Um the uh on the corner on the corners we what we're proposing is uh steel uh because this is Stelco and it would be 410 it it's a printed steel and it's Corten a Corten print. So, if um that's that color is very it it simulates kind of aging steel. However, because it's a print, uh it doesn't have the the actual drippy quality as you might remember from the Stelco Tower uh downtown. So, um we we started referencing the '70s. Um uh but in a way that's going to keep this nice new building addition clean. Um I think that's um those those are the crux of the the major changes. Um I can turn it turn it back now. >> Great. Thanks, Rick. So, um yeah, so he's referring to the the cladding materials on the corner pavilion. So, the the sort of the variegated texture and the and the the tones will really match well with the heritage brick. So, that's why that was selected. Um and then it also ties in with the new use Stelco as it being a steel product that is made locally. Um next slide, please. Yeah, so this is what it looks like from that really, you know, prominent corner of Victoria and Ferry where the heritage building is really oriented towards. It's got that lovely sort of beveled corner detail. Uh and then you can see on this view too the Victoria Street entrance will remain as an working entrance and all of those details will be restored with a new historically accurate kind of doorway. Uh and then on the right, uh although that warehouse entrance on Ferry Street isn't required for the new layout, it's going to be preserved as a kind of a record of how that portion of the building was actually double height where there was warehouse and that there was an entrance to the warehouse area on that side. So it's it's just a way of kind of preserving that industrial heritage in the evolution of the building. Uh and part of those part of the new use. Um next slide, please. And then you can see how it transitions around to that uh that was the like the photo I showed earlier, that east elevation where uh the factory additions were attached. That really doesn't have any architectural detailing currently. It wasn't part of the original design. So this will just have the same treatment as the contemporary addition that we were looking at before with the same materials and rhythm. And I I I really like the way that they have content continued the kind of rustication at the base, but in a more simplified way and then a different material. So it's very clear that it's contemporary, but it references the original. Uh next slide, please. And then from the back, you can see it's um so that's the On the right, you can see the north elevation. So again, there's nothing sort of historic there. So that's going to be new um elevation and that is going to be kind of a new larger sort of modern entrance with, you know, the types of doors that they need and a opening into a larger lobby and a elevator. Uh and that'll be oriented towards the parking lot, which will be um on the beside the building on the north side. And it's an at-grade entrance. The Victoria Street entrance has steps up to it. So it's been very important to have a at-grade entrance on uh at least and it's been incorporated into the new additions, so that's also a good uh a a good way to do things. Uh next slide, please. Um this is just the materials that were listed on the drawings. So all of the existing heritage fabric will be repaired and cleaned where required, so it's selective repair and cleaning. Um heritage fabric that's missing will be restored to match and the new and the new windows will be based on historic evidence and they will be as mentioned uh double glazed to improve the building envelope, but they'll have the same look of the buildings in that historic photo I showed you earlier. Uh and then this is the example of that Corten material with that kind of variegated tone and and a Uh next slide, please. So you can see the kind of condition of those two entrances now. Pretty you know, some soiling, some paint, some salt staining, some graffiti. And then the picture on the right of the Ferry Street entrance, you can see that a doorway and a vent were put in beside the original entrance. So that's where they'll be new brick used to match to fill in those two openings. Uh to restore that elevation to its original appearance. Next slide, please. And there you can see it restored, the brick work restored and the and the the heritage doors. Um some Stelco style signage can be installed in that stone area above the entablature. Next slide, please. And then I just went through the ways in which it was It's with the standards and guidelines. The addition matches the height, scale, massing, and rhythm of heritage building. It's clearly distinct as a contemporary addition. Uh but also complementary to the Edwardian classicism and brick and stone masonry of the heritage building through thoughtful design elements and material choices. The impact on the heritage fabric has been minimized by providing a setback where the heritage fabric transitions to the new addition. The alterations include um conserving, restoring heritage attributes to their original condition. Uh the main entrance on Victoria Avenue North will be restored and will continue to function as a building entrance. The side entrance on Ferry Street is not required, but it will be preserved as a record of its past used as an entrance to the former factory floor. New doors and windows will be installed based on archival evidence to restore them to their original appearance with double glazing to improve their energy performance. Uh next slide, please. So, there's a lot uh in in in my opinion, there's a lot of very positive impacts that this um proposal has. The heritage building's currently vacant and at risk due to its poor condition. The heritage attributes will all be conserved and restored. The new use is compatible with the heritage value and heritage attributes, and demolition is limited to interior features that are in poor condition. Uh and that is really there's really nothing in there that um and it's not protected under the designation bylaw. The new use as Stelco's office continues a historic pattern of use as the office as it has in the past been the office of two major industries, the Otis Elevator Company and the Studebaker Company. And uh the alterations are consistent with the standards and guidelines. In In fact, it's a really good example of how to follow the standards and guidelines when doing it a new addition and converting a building from one use to another. Uh next slide, please. Uh I did a salvage I I did a um document documentation in 2012 before the um additions were demolished. And so this is some of my photos from from back in 2012. We don't know what the condition of these components are uh now because I haven't been through the building and we do know that we will do that but we will do that in the next phase and then try and identify if if it's it's it's possible to salvage these and that that will be done. Uh next slide, please. I also think that uh an inter- sort of an interpretive feature incorporated either on Victoria or Fairy Street in front of the Heritage Building or inside the new lobby would it be a nice feature. So again, that would be something that would be explored in the next stage. Uh and these would be the themes looking at it as the Otis Elevator Company, Studebaker Company, and as a World War Munitions Plant. And then um one of the other things that I was just going to talk to everybody about today was that uh I was always uh wondering why the 1914 fire insurance plan showed this building and yet the designation says it was built in 1929. So uh Robert Hamilton did some uh additional research for me and he has uh documentation to to prove that you know, in fact this this 1914 fire insurance plan is correct that this building was built prior to 1914 and we think probably built 1912, not 1929. And in that case, the architects were would have been Stewart and Witton who were doing uh buildings on the site at that time. There were three different firms involved in building out this whole site over the years. Uh and so uh that's why there's been some confusion and then uh if you just go to the next slide, please. Um and and another thing that directed me to this was the fact that I went to the archives to get the drawings that were listed for this building, but it turned out they were the for the building across the street. Uh 415 Victoria Avenue. That was built in 1929 and that was designed by Hutton and Sutor. W- Unfortunately, we don't have the original drawings for the building that we're working on today, but we know that an earlier building that was on the corner was demolished in 1912 and then Stewart and Winton built this corner building and connected it with the factory buildings. So, it's actually kind of interesting cuz it's got office space in it, but it's also got factory space in it. So, it's it's a internally, it's kind of interesting. Um and so, yeah, that's that's what I have for you here today. So, we we want to correct that when we do the interpretive plan. Thanks. >> Beautiful. Amazing research. Well, um okay, thank you for that. Um Megan and Rick, uh are there any questions from the committee? Uh Carol, please go ahead. >> I have a couple of comments and a question. The first thing is um I imagine we're all very uh delighted that this is happening with an industrial building. Um that that remains from that incredible complex. Um it's interesting that the building that uh is on the corner there uh and the factories buildings that were attached and now aren't there um are quite different looking, but they go together uh as is often the case with industrial complexes. So, getting to um the new building, um I really um find that the style is is terrific to um you know, mimic, not exactly imitate, but mimic, reflect, uh you know, the the massing, um the fenestration of uh the original building. The thing that struck me when I first saw the the um the rendering uh of what it would look like, um and I really I really like the way that it was changed when you showed us, you know, the original uh and then and then what it was changed to, though it looks it looks kind of uh like a small change, but it makes a massive difference uh to the way that it it works with the old building. But, the thing that struck me was um that the new building has, you know, the different color on the bottom, on the first floor. It it has a similar treatment, but it is a very different color. So, my question is um was there any consideration of making it the same color as the brick so that you know, as the original complex was all certain color of brick. Um I imagine there's a reason why uh you didn't go that route, and I just am curious to know what that what that was. Uh in other words, did it not look right, or is there any um was there anything um done on on uh that kind of uh that that kind of um design for for that for that addition? >> Carol, I think that's that's a really good point to make. Um it is precast sort of stone product, so it could be tinted. So, um I'll I'll let uh Rick speak to his uh decision, and it might might be to do with the client's preferences, but but I'll let you speak up, Rick, about that. >> Doing these additions is uh it's kind of tricky cuz sometimes you um are tempted to mimic what's already there. Uh we decided to in our approach we still have the rusticated base uh which ca- carries on the the mat- the the detailing but the color is different to sort of indicate that it is a new part of the building. So um so that's a decision that we made from a from a design from a design point of view. >> Yeah, and I'll just add to that. I mean you can try and match things or you can contrast things and the and the trick is to try and find that kind of balance in between not being, you know, super contrasting or super matchy. And so that was Yeah, I I mean I think I think it was a good decision and it and it's to tie in with all the brick uh oh sorry, all the limestone details on the building as well. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I just um I wasn't kind of thinking to to match it to the red brick that's there or the orange brick but to actually the rest of the new building. So um yeah, I I funny thing is is I would really love to see that uh to to see a rendering of it to see if it I know it's hard it's hard to know what it's going to look like when it's done because sometimes you know, if it is kind of the same treatment only it's the building is quite different. I mean it's new and you can tell that it's new. Sometimes it just it doesn't work. I know that cuz I've seen a lot of them and, you know, in the work that I've done also I I know exactly the challenge that you're talking about. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know. I just wish that I I wish that it was maybe considered more because um you know, it it kind of isn't a kind of an abrupt um you know, change it's an it's I think it looks a little bit more um abrupt or or you know, you instantly see that that's a new building. It's so different, whereas if it was the same color as the rest of the new building I don't know that it would stand out that way. So, that's just my my kind of view of it and um but I like the building anyway. I like it uh with with I like that stone in the bottom. I do like it, but I I guess I just you know, I just think that might have been interesting to just see a rendering of it or another site that had done something like that where they used a similar color to the rest of the building so it isn't chopped at that level. So, but it's it's a great it's a fabulous project. I'm so I'm I'm just so delighted by it. So, thanks Megan. Thanks for your presentation. Thanks for explaining everything. I really I'm just an industrial architectural, you know, passionate type person. So, it's it's it's something that I'm that I'm just so glad about. So, thank you so much for that. >> Okay. Thanks, Carol. Um Sandra had a comment or question? >> Thank you, Karen. Uh Megan, I love this. I think it looks great and uh I I'd love to see what you had presented last month and put it against what you're presenting today because I'm trying to define what those tweaks were, but I just couldn't find them. I I kind of forgot to tell you the truth, but I love the direction it's gone. So, if is there a way to put the two next to each other just so that we can see how you've advanced it since last month. >> Um they were both in the presentation. Um so we could flip between the slides. >> Yeah, through the chair. Just give me a couple seconds. >> Thank you so much. >> side by side. >> Yeah, I I think it is definitely an advancement. You listened to the comments. I think I I spoke a lot about um those little tweaks, I think, last week last month. And I'm I'm very pleased with those mullion mullions. I think the windows were a bit lar higher. Were they Were the windows higher? And then And now they're more like >> weren't They just weren't sort of the rhythm was wrong, and I think you were right about that. And by adding these vertical things and sort of grouping the windows a bit, it really helps. >> Yes. I I think it's uh And did you Did you introduce >> last time, so we didn't get a chance to get her. Uh so we could have done a an alternative, but um we will have a option like all all final material selections will go to staff for final review. So there there's another, you know, uh possibility to make some tweaks at that stage. >> So the one on the left is today's, and the one on the right is last month, yeah? >> That's right, yeah. >> Okay. So it's it's >> It's the gray that really does it for me. I love the gray, how um uh the uh the metal paneling and and also that spandrel, right, still? So the spandrel was white, it became sort of a gunmetal gray. I think that works really well. Um for me. >> That's right. And then there's the vertical spandrels. Um >> Yes. >> group the windows, yeah. >> Yes. And there's the pairs of windows. I think that's great. And so I'm I just wanted to communicate that I'm really pleased with with this advancement. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um Graham, do you have a comment or question? >> I have a comment and a question. >> Okay, please go ahead. >> This new submission a thousand times above the previous submission. Much nicer, especially on the the north and uh west facades. But that east there's nothing original left in it. Is there any way a band of color can be brought into it just to break up that bleak wall? Like it's just it's one very long repetitive bleak wall. >> Right. So right now there's an empty site beside it. I I don't know what will happen there. Um but yeah, that's not something we've looked at. >> Right now Right now it's a you've got a wall of loading docks looking onto it. >> Oh yeah, so they understand there's no heritage >> [laughter] >> meaning on that wall. But it's just a very long when you're finished it's going to be a long bleak wall. Like if they're going to put that when that doorway was put in on that facade if you could have put a a course of brick up to the roofline, it would have broken everything up. >> Well, we we do have the we do have the vertical spandrel spandrels uh that provide the rhythm that we didn't have before. >> I know, but I mean it's just one whole wall of same. It's just it's outside our purview. >> It is. >> [laughter] >> Yep. I I understand that. But I just mean if you stand back and look at that picture that you draw, you guys do fantastic work. It's just bleak. But that's that's my only comment. >> think sometimes things look that way in renderings in real life they you know, it's not It's not >> And it's not as bad, yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay, what's up? >> There's a lot of There's a lot of There is quite a bit going on. Like those There's There's um There's depth in those spandrels, so they they're three-dimensional. They kind of stick out. So, there there'll be some articulation. >> I just think that when you just look at that whole like it's a long span on a three-story building with >> Yeah. >> the same repeated all the way down the entire thing. >> Very modern-looking. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> And just like I'm not much for brutalism, so when I see something like that, it's just to me like why didn't someone put a dab of color in the middle of that somewhere? But so that's up to you guys. That's nothing to do with us. >> So, thank you for that, Graham. >> [laughter] >> Point taken. Did you have a question, too, or >> Well, I was just saying adding a bit of color. That was >> Okay, thanks. >> Okay. Um and I saw Matthew, you had your hand up. Is that correct? >> Uh I just It's just a quick comment. Yeah, I really appreciate your um uh and and I think I I um echo a lot of the previous commenters. Uh just a quick comment. I I do uh definitely see some improvements uh in uh in in the new uh renders, so I appreciate you uh uh you taking our um comments. Uh and uh I really uh think that uh this is looking uh really really good. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. And I would agree with what Matthew has to say. Um if there's no other questions, I had a question. Okay, so this is really minor, but if it was a much smaller project, I know this question would have come up. So, if you look at the original entryway, the one over the stairs, and um the the plans have to put a sign up on top of it, say Stelco. I was just wondering, is it going to be bolt like is it going to be drilled into the current stone which is, I believe, a heritage feature, or how is it going to be mounted? >> So, this is our sort of conceptual rendering and then there's a lot more work that has to be done to work out all the details. And so, because it is kind of a big big project with a lot of things that need to be worked out, I've suggested a conservation plan. And the conservation plan would go through all of those details to make sure that everything was done in a way that was compatible with conserving the heritage features. So, if you know, they've they've design-wise they've done a good idea of designing a sign that fits into the heritage sort of design. They haven't done [clears throat] something bigger or they haven't, you know, they don't want a fluorescent sign. They fit it right into that band. So, I I'm happy with that at this stage. The next stage, yes, that's a great question. How is it going to be installed? So, uh that's what we'll have to work It'll depend on how heavy the signage is, what kind of signage it is. So, that there's a a lot of unknowns at this point. Um, but right now we're just giving you the concept and then we have certain conditions in the approval to make sure that it's implemented in an appropriate way. Does that help? >> It does help. Thank you. And I know it It is a really tiny piece. I mean, it's a gigantic project and I'm thrilled with it as is everyone else. So, I just thought I'd mention it because, you know, if it was if it was nothing else, if it was a tiny tiny project, that would have come up for sure. So, I'm going to throw that in there. Okay. So, >> And it'll be installed There's there's a sort of a a stone band above the sort of decorative work that's just a flat stone surface. So, it's pretty easy to install something there without impacting any of the decorative details that are in the entablature below. >> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that. And I know I know there's many more details to be worked out, so Okay. Um all right. Any further questions or comments from the committee? Okay. I think Well, I think we're all really pleased with what we've seen today. Really appreciate you taking the advice and coming back and we all making those changes. It's wonderful. So, Okay. Let me see. So, um may we see the proposed conditions, please, Lisa? Okay. So, these there are a few um beyond the normal the standard ones. So, this one is around the proposed The first one proposed masonry restoration work must conform to the masonry guidelines. That the final details and specs of the proposed masonry work be submitted. Okay. The final specifications for the proposed replacement windows and doors be submitted. Final specifications for any proposed signage and lighting be submitted. And then the final two uh standard conditions. And this is with a proposed expiry date of October 31st, 2029. So, 3 years cuz this is a quite a large project, so. All right. Um may I have a mover and a seconder to recommend approval of heritage permit 2026-029 subject to these staff recommended conditions. I see Sandra and I see Matthew. Okay. And is there anyone opposed? Okay. Seeing none, that motion is carried. And uh >> [clears throat] >> Okay. So, thank you Uh it's for coming in, Megan, Rick. Really appreciate it. We're all thrilled. So. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks. And thanks for your input. I think it really made made it even better. Thanks very much. Okay. All right, so. >> Thanks again. >> Calling up. Okay. Thanks for joining us. Take care. Bye then. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> All right. And as there's and no further business, um I will be adjourning this meeting at 5:52 p.m. And thank you. And our next meeting is scheduled for Lisa, may I Can you please let us know when it is? >> Yes, through the chair. I believe it's November 17th. >> November 17th. Okay. All right. Great. So, thank you, committee. I appreciate you all coming. And we'll see you next month. >> Good night, all. >> Have a good night. >> It's Scott with