Okay, good evening everyone. Welcome to our September Heritage Advisory Committee meeting. A happy first day of school for those that celebrate. Uh and we'll get started with uh [laughter] we'll get started with a with a land acknowledgement to to begin. Uh so Grimby is situated on treaty land. This land is steeped in the rich history of the first nations such as the Harendarok, the Hanoson and the Anesnab including the Missosagas of the Credit First Nation. There are many First Nations, Matei and Inuit people from across Turtle Island that live and work in Niagara today. The regional municipality of Niagara and Grimby stand with all indigenous people, past and present, in promoting the wise stewardship of the lands on which we live. Thank you. Uh any disclosures of pecuinary interest tonight. I'm seeing shakes. Not she has shakes from everyone's heads. So that's a no. And we'll move on then to the agenda. Um any questions, comments regarding the agenda for tonight? Looks like a no. Okay. I am going to need a mover. We have Brian moving the agenda and a seconder. We have councelor DeFlavio. All in favor? Okay, that's carried. Thank you. And then moving on to um our minutes from our July 14th meeting. Everyone had a chance to review them. Any comments or questions regarding the minutes? Seeing some some nos around, so I'll need a mover for uh the minutes. We have councelor Christristani and seconder we have DeFabio again. All in favor? That's carried. Fantastic. Uh okay. So we are going to uh begin with a a verbal update regarding the uh the recent AMO delegation. And we're lucky to have Mayor Jordan here to to speak on this. We did kind of put him on the spot a little bit. [laughter] And so we would just love to hear a little bit about what was what was delegated and spoken about regarding heritage at the most recent AMO. >> Uh thank you chair. Uh um we met uh at AMO this year uh with U. Minister Graham McGregor uh and [snorts] spoke about um archaeological um digs uh how um [snorts] how the uh provincial government has uh increased the amount of uh paperwork we have to do for archaeological digs. And uh we just really need um the minister uh and the government to work with us to uh to make it as efficient as possible and not ownor as ownorous as it can be on the on the u heritage homeowner. Uh we also talked about uh extending the um the in or extending the uh designation um and uh we were met with news like we already extended it once and we don't know if we're going to be able to extend it again. Uh but we made it really important to the minister that that Ginsby uh is really focused on heritage. Heritage is one of uh most important things in our municipality. Um we were built u in the last 230 years. So [snorts] heritage is very important and we push that to the minister that uh we we value each and every one of our our homes that that are are historically significant and we just want to keep it that way and we don't want the province to um lessen the rules uh regarding u preservation of heritage properties. And also we talked about um insurance and uh ways that we can work with the provincial government and work with the insurance bureau bureau of Canada to uh streamline heritage insurance and actually get rid of a lot of the misinformation that's out there. uh really uh there there is so much misinformation about heritage properties being difficult to ensure this that or the other thing and and we certainly know that here in Grimby our heritage department um with designated properties will work around and work with the homeowner to to make sure that that we can replace things the most efficient way and uh with most uh expedited way with insurance and keeping the insurance u reasonable and accessible for heritage uh homeowners is is foremost first and foremost for us and and we met with uh quite a positive response uh with uh both ministers that we met with. So if anyone has any questions I'm happy to answer them. Thank you. Thank you very much for that update and for being a great advocate for Grimsy's heritage at the provincial level. Any comments or questions from the committee? Okay, good. And that's good to hear also that there was good conversation regarding insurance and hopefully we see some that being streamlined a little bit more in the in the future. Fantastic. Uh okay, I guess with that we can move over to the resolution. Um, [clears throat] I resolved that the uh AMO delegation be received. I'll need a I'll need a mover. We have councelor Christie and a seconder. We'll have Brian. All in favor? That's great. Thank you very much and thank you again for providing that update. Uh, okay. So we have uh two reports this evening [clears throat] and uh first will be presented by Bianca uh regarding um a consideration for a heritage inventory. So Bianca go ahead and then provide that report when you're ready. be able to do. >> Thank you, the chair. Um, so the purpose of the report tonight uh is to talk about a possible heritage uh inventory and how it could help the town prepare for the upcoming changes. As of January 1st, 2027, um, as everyone knows, listed properties will be removed from the municipal heritage register. Um, so we need to consider how we can continue to identify and respond to impair important heritage resources that we haven't been yet able to protect through designation. Um, as the committee is aware, um, the town has already done a significant amount of work in this area. staff have consulted more than 200 heritage property owners, started the designation process under part four, so individual designation for 63 buildings and we've completed the designation process for 53 of those buildings. Um but even with this um substantial progress, more than 480 properties are expected to remain on the register and will be removed on January 1st, 2027. Once this happens, these properties will no longer have any protections or even recognition of their heritage value. This creates a challenge when a property may be sorry, this creates a challenge when a property may be important from a heritage perspective but has not yet been formally designated. The heritage inventory proposed in the report is meant to help address that gap. It would not replace designation under the Ontario Heritage Act and it would not automatically designate any properties. Instead, it would be a transparent way to identify properties that may need a closer look if an application or a permit is submitted. This would help staff, property owners, developers, the committee, and council understand the potential heritage considerations earlier in the process. The inventory would focus on the properties in priority areas, properties that appear to meet higher thresholds with Ontario regulation 906, properties that face um that are likely to face uh development pressures and um ones that are of um high importance to the community. And if if an application or a permit comes in for one of those properties, staff would like to look at uh what is being proposed and to evaluate whether it has an effect on the heritage value of the property. If there is little to no risk such as a pool permit or a shed, um no further action would be needed. But if there is serious risk such as demolition, the inventory would help staff respond in a timely way. It is also important to note that the property owners would continue to be a part of the process. The if the town needs to move forward with a notice of intention to designate, the property owner would still have the right to appeal and council would still make the final decision on whether to proceed or withdraw with the notice. Staff are looking for the committee's input on the general idea of creating a heritage inventory and on this proactive and transparent approach. If supported, staff would come back to a future uh with a future with a report in the future uh with the properties recommended for inclusion along with the reasons why they're being considered. In summary, the heritage inventory is intended to help the town plan ahead, make expectations clearer, and continue protecting important cultural heritage resources while still understand um while still using the designation process under uh the Ontario Heritage Act as the more long-term permanent protection tool. Um so, just for like visual so you can see what this would actually look like, um I'm going to have Mike share the screen. Um, so we can look at today's process and then what this could potentially look like. So on the left side is the current process. So I'll just walk you through it. So a demolition application comes in. There's a request for the property that is on the register right now to be demolished. So there's 10 to 12 business days where the building department has to require has to respond about this permit. [snorts] Um but because we have the municipal heritage register, we get that 60-day timeline that's automatically triggered. In those 60 days, we have to conduct research, get it to heritage committee, get it to council, and then provide a decision. Then so that's number three is the council decision at that point. So then we have direction from council. So council can either tell us move ahead and protect the building or it's okay the demolition can take place then the NOID would be issued or the demolition would be allowed. Once the NOID is issued the demolition permit is void and so basically the building is not automatically um demolished. So then that no time period allows 60 days for a property owner to appeal. That appeal then comes to council and council can consider it, decide if we want to continue with the designation process. If council does want to continue with it, then they'll pass the bylaw and then there's another 30-day appeal period where the property owner can appeal to the Ontario Land Tribunal. So, that's kind of like today's process. what the heritage inventory would look like is the main change is that that consultation period, that 60-day timeline, we won't have that anymore. So, this would us basic this would be us basically doing that assessment now to see if those properties meet the threshold for designation and saying to the committee, do we want to move forward with a notice of intention to designate? So that's where that consultation would be done now and then someone and then the process would continue. So an application would come in, we would issue the notice of intention to designate because it would void the demo permit and then the property owner gets notified that we're interested in designating the building and then they have their 30-day appeal period which comes back to council and then council can decide if they want to designate the building or not. So just because they're on the inventory doesn't mean they're being designated. It just means that if a demolition permit comes in for the building, the town can issue a notice of intention to designate, which would put the demolition permit on hold while council can look and see, do we actually want to designate this building? Then if council decides, yes, we want to designate the building, then there's an additional 30-day appeal period for the property owner to go to the Ontario Land Tribunal. So, it's not removing any steps in the process. is just simply moving up the consultation period because we won't have that ability to react with the 60 days. >> So that's what the inventory would do. And so the uh report had a an index card kind of example. So that's what we're looking to provide to the committee at the next meeting. We would identify the properties that are most important properties that we know meet three out of nine. That's not to say they won't meet more. It's just once they've met the three out of nine, we think they're important to consider um preserving and then they could meet five, six that all of that is still possible. Um and the idea would be that from the time we issue that notice of intention to designate until the council meeting where the appeal period is considered, we would be putting together additional research for council to consider at that time. It just gives us a chance to react because without this there would not be enough time in that 10 to 12 business days where we have to give the permit to get it to heritage committee and council and council can't move forward with the designation unless they consult their heritage committee. So it's just too tight. So the chance of losing something is very high where this would give us a chance to react. It doesn't mean that they're going to be designated. It just gives us a chance to pause, take a look. Is this something we want to protect? If it's no, then we at least did the due diligence. So, um, our [clears throat] proposal is that we wanted to talk to you about the idea tonight, get some thoughts. If there's some things you want us to add additional for our next disc discussion, um, then we would prepare those inventory index cards, we can we can talk about them. Uh, if there's ones that the committee wants us to consider, we can also look at those. um or if you have questions about the ones we've included and um any additional elements the committee would like us to include in that next report. Um that all of that would be really helpful. So, thank you. Happy to answer any questions and Terry's also online if there's any questions for her. [snorts] >> Uh thank you, Bianca. Uh yeah, I'm very I'm very curious to hear what the committee has to say. I do want to just start by saying like the town heritage staff have been working so hard for the past four years. like when this came out in 2022, a bill 202 when bill 23 came out like you kind of went into overdrive and you know in an attempt to to as a response you know we designated 51 designations with with public support which is really really incredible and what a feat. And so again, like looking at this inventory um idea, like seeing the town staff once again, like trying to be responsive, coming up with this novel and like in a lot of ways a proactive approach. Um I just I think that's just really great to see you kind of being forward thinking with this. But yes, I definitely want to hear from the committee and I saw councelor DeFabio had your hand up, so go ahead. >> Thank you, chair through you. Um, so I'm just trying to get my head around the process from this point on. So if I'm misunderstanding, maybe maybe you can go through it one more time. So the we have what 480 homes on the list is 480ish homes on the list. Is this a blanket intent to designate for all of those homes and in advance? Is that is that the idea? Uh and if so, is that legal? Like I I I mean I that may seem like a silly question, but it doesn't it seems like if it's that easy to do, then there's no point in getting rid of the list in the first place. Like if this is the solution that every municipality is going to come up with, it has the counter effect of what the province is trying to achieve. So which I mean we kind of knew is what was going to happen anyway. If if the province hadn't forced our hand, we wouldn't have had to go through all these homes that we've gone through. It's been a great process. We've learned a lot about about the heritage in Grimby, but at the same time, we would have just left a lot of those homes on our list until there was a reason to bring them forward or until something really stood out as an exceptional case. Um, but this legislation has forced us to, you know, well, for staff to look at each home and look at the ones that are a priority, kind of triage it. So, if you can speak to that a little bit and then I've got a couple of other questions >> through the chair. Um, so no, we would be going through that 480 properties. We wouldn't be doing all of them and we would be picking our basically our best of the best that still aren't finished yet. Um, and they have to meet three out of the nine prescribed criteria. So, we basically have to confirm that they meet those three criteria before we would move forward with it. But it's not that they're going to be automatically designated. This list would only be used if a demolition permit came in or a de a development application that demolished the building or proposed to demolish the building. If it was someone was just on this list and nothing ever came up, we wouldn't act on it. We would if we were going to designate it, we would do the usual process that we do now. This is just a riskbased assessment tool. So, basically, if a demo permit came in, say like one of the like uh one of the big school buildings or like a downtown building, say we were going to lose a downtown building, we know that a downtown building already meets three criteria. So it would basically be council saying if a demo permit comes in for a downtown building issue a notice of intention to designate which freezes the timeline and gives us a chance to react because if we don't react within 12 days the bu we can do nothing but this would allow us to at least do a notice of intention to designate which gives us 30 days and then we can come back to council and say this is what we found in those 30 days. Do you want us to proceed with the designation process? But it is. So the way it works under the Heritage Act because you asked the legal side of it is we have to um notice like publish a notice of intention to designate in the paper, serve it to the property owner. We add ours also to the town website um before a demolition permit is issued. So that's why it has to be done in those 12 days. But those 12 days, it's not enough time for us to come back to you at heritage committee and then come back to council. So there's no time for us to get to two meetings in 12 days. So what we're doing is we're proactively saying council if a like we'll just use in a downtown building. If a downtown building demolition permit comes in, can we go ahead and issue the NOA because we know it meets the criteria. >> Okay. Thank you. Again though, if the ability to have a heritage inventory, the the the heritage inventory that we've had until now is being removed in January, how can having a heritage inventory still be okay? I I I just there because it would it would be a legal document of some kind. I mean, it can't just be like a secret list that we keep. It would have to be published somewhere. It would have to be there have to be notification. Uh and also further to that uh how are you going to like frankly how are you going to have time to look at all of these properties and determine whether they now I we went through them when we created the list originally. I we sat down, went through each of them uh and and did what we could to to to determine whether they should be on that list in the first place. But that took us I I can't even name the number of hours that we were here till, you know, midnight going through each individual application and then it was done in groups. So, not everybody did all of them. I just can't imagine how much time that would require of staff in order to get that done between now and January is four months and and shrinking as we speak. So, are you going to have time to do that? How can you do that? Uh and again, can we do it because it doesn't seem like I mean, do we call it something else besides a heritage inventory? Do we call it like because that legislation is making it clear that we can't have a heritage inventory >> through the chair Terry might want to add but so we have our municipal heritage register that's the 60-day demolition protection that's going that's gone uh a lot of municipalities um Hamilton Toronto uh Ottawa [snorts] um they're creating the heritage what they're calling a heritage inventory so that's kind of similar to what we're calling ours. Um, and it's the idea is they don't want those municipal heritage properties to just not be on anyone's radar anymore. So, they're going to have their municipal heritage inventory as well. Um, sorry, I shouldn't mix the names. It's a heritage inventory. They're different things. Um, and they're going to have theirs like we propose like on their GIS systems, on their websites so that we're not cuz it's going to be a very reactive like that's the reality now. It's so reactive. So if a developer comes in, they may not know that property was of value to the town. So they're going to find out at the precon. So by identifying these ahead of time, we think it'll help with that transparent um experience for the developer. So if they're interested in a property and they look on our JS, they'll see us on our heritage inventory. Um but it won't function the same as a register. It's just we're saying that can we issue a notice of intention to designate on these sites because we know it meets the prescribed criteria and then we have council direction to issue that before coming back to you. So some people might just try to make it happen in those 12 days. But we're just saying ahead of time let's get our best of the best the most important. Like I can't say we're going to get every one of those properties assessed but we do know like our downtown buildings are very important. Um, so we're going to get as many as we can on the list where we know they meet three. So some of the criteria is architectural, so that's a visual um evaluation. Um, some of those are contextually significant, so they're part of the downtown. They're part of the collection of the downtown. They're functionally linked to the area. They're historically linked. We also have landmarks. So those ones we'll be able to see from a visual perspective, but some of the associative history we may not know at all. And our goal is like once that notice of intention to designate is issued and we have those 30 days, that is the appeal period to bring to the committee. I'm sorry, bring to council. Um we're hoping to do some get the research that we can at that point. But once the notice of intention to designate is issued, we have 120 days to complete the designation process. So we would basically give ourselves some time to react. That's what all this list would do. Um it [clears throat] doesn't function like the register. It's just our strategy is consult first rather than consult once a demo permits come in through you chair. But again, putting it on the GIS, um, it can have both effects, right? Because you're assuming best like that the person on the other side has everybody's best interests in mind and and therefore if you put it on on on inventory and put it on the GIS and they see that it's on there, they're going to say, "Oh, let's have a talk about it." But there are also those who will say it's on the GIS. I have to apply for demolition immediately because I don't want to have to deal with this. And and that's my concern is that it might I think I'm afraid that it'll have the opposite effect in some cases of what we want it to have. Now, I don't know if the timing it is gonna keep that from happening, you know, but I just think of somebody coming in on December 12th and applying for a demolition permit when it's kind of a, you know, half empty building and and and there's no reason to prevent that demolition permit from coming because there's no longer a heritage municipal heritage register. Um, again, maybe I'm thinking like, you know, being exaggerating, but I'm just afraid of that it's not going to offer the protection that we want it to to offer. And I'm also fearful that there will be push back because well, I mean, so let's let me ask a very simple question rather than having a a conversation about it. What do you think would be a successful number of the 480 to have on our new list? You know, do you think it would be 50? Do you think it would be, you know, like do you is there an estimate of what you think would would be, you know, a good number for that >> uh through the chair. So, I think that's exactly what you just said there about the demolition permit. That's the exact kind of intent of the tool. So our fear too is that a demolition permit would come in for an important building and we can't do anything, right? Because there's no register anymore. So basically what we're asking for is that council say to us if that happens, issue the notice of intention to designate because that in itself voids the demo permit. So that's exactly what it would do. The only thing is if we wait and don't have direction ahead of time, we run the risk of not having a meeting in those 12 days. So by ahead of time, you saying say we said 50 buildings, say these 50 buildings, if a demo permit comes in for any of them, issue the notice of intention to designate because they're not, it doesn't mean they're being designated. It's still coming back to council. It just gives us a chance to react. That's all this does. It gives us a chance to react. It's not like once we issue that notice of intention designate, we have to designate it. That's just the first step in the process. Um, I think when I think about the properties, we of course have to think about Grimby Beach. That's a a collection. Um, I think there's between 70 and 80 of those are on the register right now. So, that's something we would definitely be looking at those properties. Um, we want to look at like mature neighborhoods like Nells Boulevard where you have like a complete collection. Are those something we're interested in protecting? I know we just found out about Maria Nell's Rutherford. It's like the last living descendant of the Neville family. Subdivide those lots and contributed the design of all the buildings. Um, so that's something we be looking at. We have our landmark buildings that we haven't gotten to yet. And then we also have our downtown buildings. Um, and then probably the ones that were part of um the main street that we haven't done just yet. Those are like the main ones we're looking at right now. And then there's a couple like up on the escarment that we wouldn't want to that we wouldn't want to forget that are up there that are really strong architectural um candidates. So that's kind of what we're looking at. Those are the targeted areas and then we would do the best of the best in those areas what we're thinking. Um but again we we're hoping to bring that list to the committee to take a look at. Some of them will be easier to determine than others. And I think if there's ones that aren't 100% certainty, that's where they might not make that list. >> Uh thank you, councelor Delavio, for your really great questions. Um any any other comments or questions from the committee regarding uh the inventory? Yes, Brian, go ahead. >> Through you, chair. I've got a couple and I'm kind of bouncing around some thoughts, so um bear with me. I think uh first off overall supportive of the approach. I think it's a really creative and thoughtful way of trying to work through the changes that we've been stuck with or are stuck with. I do think there's some risk but I also think there's risk of doing nothing. So I I like the fact I respect that uh trying rather than sit by idle even if it isn't a perfect solution. [snorts] Uh a couple of questions and sorry I'm going to bounce around a bit. >> [clears throat] >> First one is are there limitations on the number of times you can issue a no a notice of intention to designate and reason I'm asking that one is and maybe I misunderstand so correct me if I'm wrong if someone comes in with the application they're on the list we issue the notice of intention to designate if that's say they want to do something minor that's not a demo we've issued that not is there is can we not issue it again and they come back in a few years and hey we want to demo it too bad you already issued you didn't go through with it so is there a limitation on that and maybe and correct me if I'm wrong in how I understood that >> through the chair. So there's no limitations on how of like how often or if you can pass a NOID like multiple times. Um but we wouldn't issue a NOID unless the building's actually at risk. So this is just giving us basically like for example like the designation tonight we've given you the history and we've said council can we issue a notice of intention to designate and the council says yes issue it. So basically, as soon as you issue that node, then a timeline kicks in under the Heritage Act. That's what we're utilizing as the tool here. But if nothing happens, we would never use it. It's just if there's an a risk, but say someone put a pool in or someone put a shed in, we would just do a risk based assessment and say there's no risk here. There's no need to issue the NOID. So we're only issuing the NOID if it's an emergency. When some of these properties, if no demo threat ever comes up, we may never use it. So, it's just it's basically just a risk assessment tool. Um, but yeah, say there's one that we issued a NOID for, we came to an agreement, they decided not to demo the building, we worked together, so then we took back the NOID. In the future, we can always issue another one. >> Yeah, thank you. I I just have I just want to clarify one thing just based on what Brian's question is and what you were saying about issuing the NOID, but like it's not to say that like we would never issue a NOID. Eventually, the idea would be like eventually you would kind of be caught up in working through the properties and we would get to that property to be like now it's time we can finally kind of give this property the the recognition it deserves. So, it's just it's just not coming from that reactive standpoint. It's coming from more of that proactive standpoint. I just want to make sure that that's clear before we move forward >> through the chair. Correct. It's only in a reactive state. We wouldn't we may never need to issue it. But if we decide, oh, this is a building we want to protect, we would revert back to our original process, which is like the two-month letter, the one month ahead of the meeting, they get a copy of the designation, we have a lot of collaborative discussions. um that process would be the same if we just independently of this process wanted to designate a building where this is just risk assessment and then once that NOID is issued that's when we would start the consultation with the property owner or when they submit their application. So this would they're kind of going to be uh two processes. So this would be just if a risk happens. >> Okay. Thank you Bianca. All right. Sorry B Ryan I know you have a couple more questions >> through you chair. Uh, thanks Bianca. The the other one I was going to ask, I guess kind of building off of councelor [snorts] Flavio's comment around um us not being able to have a register. And I guess it for me I'm looking at and saying, well, this isn't necessarily the legislation says we can't have the the register is no longer something that's available. It doesn't say we can't have an inventory. But on that note, is is it has it or is the plan to maybe get legal to take a look and just confirm, hey, are we on the right side of this? it probably would be a good step because we wouldn't want to assume that. But I I just my interpretation was, well, it doesn't say we can't have this. It just says there's no prescribed protections per register like there was in the past [clears throat] >> through the chair. So, yeah, we wouldn't get the 60-day timeline that that that's gone. Um but the act says that um uh demolition permit essentially a demolition permit is void if a notice of intention to designate is issued prior to the demo permit. So that's kind of the clause that we're using but um I note your recommendation about uh legal. So yeah >> through you chair. Um just a curiosity on the demo permits because again the prior dialogue around you know will everyone suddenly apply for demo permits. Does the demo permit give them indefinite ability to demolish it or is there like an expiry date on the demo permit that says hey you know you got 30 days if not then you know what you apply for kind of thing. Is is it is it an open-ended like everyone can apply and you you know these are just that property will forever have a demo permit until they do something with it. uh through the chair. I can have like the building guys provide more detail in the other report, but from my understanding is uh there has to be like ongoing activity uh for the the permit to stay active. So that's how I believe it it works, but I can have them provide context on that in the in the next report. >> Just a couple more through you, chair. Uh the I like the fact that there's a removal process. I think that it kind of makes it open and not hey, you know, if someone does want to come off, they can apply and similar to how we've dealt with that in the past. The one thing I would suggest around that is maybe just building out some prescribed process for town to go through just so it's an open transparent process. If we get your application, you know, here's how much time that we'll give or it'll take. And I think it also serves staff well because you can build out what that timeline is so you're not pestered within hours of that permit or the request going through and just having some stipulations around you know how the process will work. What we'll do just you know prescribe that a bit more even knowing that there's no legislation to outline it. I think it would still make for an open transparent process um for anyone that wants to remove themselves from that. And then through chair last question I had so you noted what some of the municipalities are doing in this regard. Are there any other solutions that you've heard out there that uh are being considered might be worth looking at in addition to this? Because I I do like this. I'm just curious what others if there's anything else. >> Um through the chair. Yeah. No, a lot of people are doing what we've been doing like protecting through part four designation. A lot of municipalities where possible are doing districts. Um we kind of touch on that in the report. The issue with districts is there's no interimm protection and they take time. they take a long time. Um, and then some people are doing the inventory and then doing a reaction, a reactive consultation. Um, so we think it's better to do proactive consultation where we absolutely know there's value. Um, and then if there's ones that aren't on the inventory that are important because we've read, you know, registered them in the past, um, we could look at that reactive approach for those ones. Um, it's just it's very difficult to guarantee there'll be a heritage meeting and a council meeting in 12 days. So, yeah. Thank you for your great questions, Brian. Any other questions or comments from the committee? Let me check my notes and see if my questions have all been answered. >> [sighs and gasps] >> Yeah, I was also curious about what other municipalities were doing and I don't know how to like word this in the right way, but like is there conversations about like if enough municipalities in pro in the province are doing this? Is there I don't know are we going to be kind of like poking the bear a little bit? But I guess like what Brian says, we it's better for us to have some plan in place and try something rather than nothing at all. I just I I I hearing Toronto especially doing something similar, I'm like, "Oh, no." [laughter] But I guess we have to do something. And and like I I I feel like this is a really novel and creative approach and I really do appreciate the effort and the thought that's been put behind this um and that we [clears throat] are kind of forward thinking about what does come next. And I know you you've been so um you've been advocating for the extension of this deadline since the very beginning um and going to the AMO about this as well. And so this is this is just the inevitable response. Um and I'm curious to see how it works. So it sounds like um as these needs to be reactive come forward, you work with that and then otherwise as the plan is to continue doing what we're doing at the same pace with the designations because I I do know that this is this is a lot to be placing on staff. So I'm just curious about kind of what what that looks like >> uh through the chair. So I I think prior to this change um the municipality was averaging like two to three designations a year. Um so 53 in like I don't even know anymore how long it's been like under uh 6 years I think. Yeah. It's it's definitely like a huge undertaking. And the thing we're realizing or like not realizing we knew this was going to happen but obviously with the designated properties increasing time is now going towards new property owners, new applications um development applications that include these properties or adjacent to. Um but the other huge piece is we've also taken on archaeology which is a big uh part of our portfolio now. Um and then as we add designations to um the town, we also increase the like European uh artifacts that could be uncovered during construction. So our archaeology layers are changing again to accommodate for the new designations and their buffer zones. Um so it's definitely the workload has significantly increased since the start of this. Um so we do want to continue to designate. Um but this will just give us this heritage inventory will help us to have that risk assessment um while we can still do the work in the background but it's not as like um >> pressure. >> Yeah. Like we not we could potentially have a demoed building, right? So this is just gives us a chance to react, but we still have timelines, right? Like as soon as that notice of intention to designate, we have 120 days to get this completely finished through council. Um, and because of that, we want to make sure these reports are tight because we don't know if we're going to be going to an Oalty hearing and things like that. So, there's still that research rush between when that NOID is issued and when we come back to council. So, I think we'll just see what the reality of that kind of tool looks like. Um, and I kind of hear everyone's thoughts on is this a good, you know, is this the only option. I think some municipalities, like I said, are just going to try and get it done in 12 days, and some people are doing it ahead of time. There's nothing else. We've considered everything. Um, but this, we think it doesn't mean you're designated. It just gives us a ch a second thought before we lose an important building because we know once they're gone, they're gone. You're not getting it back. So, this just gives us that chance, you know, before we lose an important piece of a collection or something like that, we can take a look and say, are we okay with losing this? Um, so it just gives us that breather to to be able to respond. >> Yeah, >> thank you for for sharing. And yes, I know it's been a lot of pressure and a lot of uncertainty and um and and again, thank you for working this hard up until this point. And hopefully um again I think this is a really novel way to to again like have that listing and an inventory of the assets that make this community as great as it is, right? And to kind of I think that approach of going by um you know by identified areas like Grimby Beach and downtown and these places that mean a lot to the community and our identity. I I think uh I think that that makes a lot of sense. Um, I don't [clears throat] have any other further questions or comments or or Terry, I'm not sure if you'd like anything to to add. I know you've been you've joined the meeting, so thank you so much. If you'd like to share anything further. >> Yeah, thank you. Um, I I think this is just an opportunity for us to be as transparent as possible. Um, with the loss of the list on the on the register, we this gives us an opportunity to still tell potential developers and property owners with a stated um thing from the town to say these properties are important and they would meet at the higher threshold than the um than designation would. So, we're trying to be as selective as possible, not potentially the entire 480, but identify priority areas and and provide that proactive stance to to really try to move the the needle forward. Um, as we go through and look at uh the the list itself and the inventory, we'll we'll definitely look at what other municipalities are doing and see how they've evolved. I I think there's more and more reports coming through from municipalities. So, we'll be able to have um some more information when we we provide some the next report to to committee. So, it it just gives us us an opportunity to have that conversation started, especially um when a development application comes through that we have something to say this property does have merit because otherwise that that's the big thing. We're going to lose that otherwise and we have no opportunity and I think that's that's really the point of of the inventory and I I think it it definitely provides a needle. It's not going to be perfect, but it definitely helps move us forward and gives some recognition of these properties. Thank you. Uh thank you. Thank you Terry very much and and thank you to uh to the Heritage staff for putting together this report. Um if there's no other further questions for the committee, we can um move forward with the resolution and and I'm I'm eager to see uh to talk about what the inventory looks like and kind of what those next steps looks like. So that's really fantastic. Uh okay. Uh so can I just borrow a pen? Thank you. All right. So the resolution here is that report HR 2612 considering a heritage inventory dated September 8, 2026 be received and that the committee recommends the proactive approach and that staff prepare a heritage inventory for further consideration. Do I have a mover Brian and a seconder? Councelor Christi. Uh all in favor? Okay, that's carried. Thank you very much everyone. Okay, and uh on to our heritage designation report for the evening. Mike will be presenting on 92 Main Street East. So Mike, go ahead when you're ready. Thank you, Chair. Staff would like to note that all property owners have been informed of the proposed designations of their properties. Staff would also like to thank the Grimby Historical Society for their continued contributions towards the conservation of the town's cultural heritage value as well as the contributions of Wayne Mullins of Legacy Research. Uh tonight, um as you can see up there, we have 92 Main Street East. This is an early 20th century Queen Anne style revival farmhouse built in the core of the Main Street East corridor. Based on the assessment of cultural heritage value or interest, staff recommend that the property at 92 Main Street East be designated under part four of the Ontario Heritage Act. Staff have concluded that the property has met six out of nine prescribed criteria of the Ontario Regulation 9006. The property meets the criteria for design and physical value because 92 Main Street East is a significantly intact and representative example of a Queen Anne and Revival farmhouse and a Gothic Revival fruit barn. The historic farmhouse features red brick walls and a squared rubble stone foundation. The walls feature window openings with Roman and segmental arches and stone sills as well as a large oval window under the dwelling's veranda. The structures roof includes a main hip structure with intersecting gables featuring palladian windows, fish scale shakes, eve returns cornises and a cantal levered gable. The house's veranda features a coarse stone work foundation, tuskcen style columns and stone pillars and enabliment with dentals above the main entrance and a ballastrade of OG curved railings. The subject willing displays a high degree of craftsmanship in both its wooden and masonry elements including its veranda stone foundations and window brackets. The uh the subject property's historic fruit barn is a 1 and a half story tall woodframed barn with a gamble roof and a central intersecting gable dormer. The facade is a symmetrical three- bay arrangement with a central barn door and flanking windows. The property meets the criteria for historical value and associative value because 92 Main Street East has direct associations with the long history of fruit farming on the Main Street East corridor as well as the history of musical education in Ontario. Built for fruit farmer and North Grimby Town Counselor George Van Doozer circuit 1908, the property was purchased by Wesley Eaton in 1912. Wesley Eaton continued fruit farming on the property and with his son George operated the JW Eaton and Sun coal business on Ontario Street. Gordon inherited the subject property and lived there until his death in 1970. While continuing to operate the family coal business and to farm fruit on the property, Gordon also became a central figure in musical education in Grimby, eventually becoming a music teacher at Grimby High School and organizing an annual public performance for his students, known as the Blossom Time Music Festival for 18 consecutive years. On his death, the property was inherited by his daughter Joanne Eaton, who studied music at the University of Toronto and taught music in the public school system for 35 years. She was also a senior member of the famous Leslie Bell Singer Choir and a founding member of the Festival Singers of Toronto. The subject property also has the potential to yield information about George Van Dooer, the Eaton family, Grimby's uh fruit farming industry, and the history of musical education in Grimby. The property meets the criteria for contextual value because 92 Main Street East's Queen Anne revival style. Its setback for Main Street East and its surviving fruit barn make it a prominent example of an early 20th century farmhouse, [clears throat] serving as a tangible link to the evolution of the Main Street East corridor. Built as part of the Lenj Anderson plan number 73's redevelopment of the larger farming estates along Main Street East, it's also prominently connected to one of Grimby's earliest subdivisions. In summary, based on the assessment of cultural heritage value or interest and significant findings, staff recommend that the property at 92 Main Street East be designated under part four of the Ontario Heritage Act. Thank you. Uh, thank you, Mike. Are there any comments or questions from the committee? Uh, okay. Um, I just wanted to say again, fantastic research, really great. I loved the musical history in this one. I thought that was really interesting, the connections to the Blossom Festival. Uh, George Gordon Eaton, he was a music teacher, but then also Joan Eaton had like a really amazing story, like I would say quite successful musical career by Canadian standards. Uh, so that that was really great to see. And like she had these really positive community contributions, too. So I think like even in the 906 kind of making more of an emphasis that that musical career really was nurtured in Grimsby. Um I think that that that's kind of just a really special um story to to add and you know postwar women's history also a big fan of. So that was really great to see. Um I did kind of find the story a bit hard to follow. like there was a lot of names and and addresses and like but I'm thinking that might be just like a result of a lot of the homeowners property owners kind of like buying and selling to each other but I don't know if there's a way to kind of like clear that up a little bit more. I know there's the table which I always find very helpful with like the the chain of title. Um, but I found that a bit conf a bit confusing, I will say. Um, just who was who and where. And also because there was like a 96 Main Street East and a 122 Main Street East. And, [laughter] um, but with the 96 Main Street East, I've always thought that was interesting because Philip Ben, he built that in 1907, which was about the same a year after or year before. And I thought that was interesting because when I look at those buildings, I always thought that there was some sort of connection between the two. I don't know if it's the same builder or but they seem very similar in style. So I always wondered if there was a connection. So that was interesting. I just wanted to note that. [snorts] Um I think those are all my comments. Anything else from the committee. Okay. Thank you. Um okay. If there's no other questions then I can move on to the resolution. uh resolved that report HR 2607, heritage designation report for 92 Main Street East, dated September 8th, 2026, be received and that 92 Main Street East be designated under part 4, section 29 of the Ontario Heritage Act and then a notice of intention to designate be issued in accordance with the Ontario Heritage Act. Do I have a mover, councelor DeFlavio, and a seconder? We have councelor Christie. All in favor. That's great and carried. Thank you very much everyone. Uh okay. Um so I do I do just have one quick question um for for staff before we wrap up. Um, again talking about the heritage inventory, um, and knowing that we are nearing, um, that January 1st, 2027 deadline, I was just wondering for an update regarding that the John Street property that that I'd asked about. Um, we know that um, it was part of a future development. Um, so I was just wondering if if there are any updates regarding that property. >> Thank you through the chair. Um I have uh spoken with the property owner so we're kind of in the typical designation process with them um where we're starting the conversations and uh answering questions and things like that. Um but they are aware of the committee's recommendation to look at the site for potential uh protection and I've spoken to them about some of the incentive packages that we have and um we've also let them know that a research report is underway. So we're talking to them and research has started. >> Okay. Thank you. I think with that uh we can wrap up for the evening. Uh oh, an October meeting. There's Bianca has an update regarding our next meeting. >> Thank you through the chair. Um so I did get a chance to talk to the chair about our October meeting and so um we'd like to propose that we don't have the October meeting and then we have the November meeting which will enable us time to work on the inventory um so that we can bring something for the committee to take a look at in November um with the um kind of deadline of um council endorsement for some of these items being in December. We wanted to have something potentially in place before January comes. Um so um we are proposing that the next meeting be in November, our regular Tuesday, second Tuesday. Uh yes. So there is a municipal election happening in between that. Um, I think that was part of the reasoning too is because there's no council meetings between now and and October anyway. Okay. So, even though there is a municipal election happening, our current council members on committee would remain on committee until the swearing in of the new council. Okay. So a November meeting would still be with this same committee. Is that the idea? Uh so through the chair um I'll have to double check with clerks but I believe lay members stay on the committee um until the next election of uh committee members and then the committee the counselors stay on until the new council comes in and then depending on quorum sometimes new members might be appointed. It it all depends. We could have the same counselors right? we could have the same people, so it might just be business as usual. So, it'll just depend on what happens, but I can provide some information after talking to clerks. >> Okay, that sounds good. So, let's provide more information, but for right now, we will agree to skip a an October meeting and meet in November. If there maybe are any drastic changes, then maybe we'll we'll have a conversation to see if October is best. But thank you all for joining and thank you for for a great evening and we'll see you later.