Transcript - Approves Tenant Renovation Protection Bylaw - 2026-03-30 - Finance and Corporate Services Committee Part Two

Approves Tenant Renovation Protection Bylaw - 2026-03-30 - Finance and Corporate Services Committee Part Two

All right, good evening everyone and welcome to this uh meeting of finance and corporate services committee. I just do want do want to apologize for being a little late. We got stuck dealing with uh other items here to deal with back in caucus. Uh we are going to move some things around here though to make sure we get to the the delegation sooner so you don't have to wait as long. Uh the only thing I want to deal with first uh committee if I could is we're going to deal with the information items. So, anyone had any questions or concerns um on the information items? Want to deal with those now? Councelor Chapman, go ahead. Thank you. Um I just have a question about the lodging house um program update. Go ahead. Um yeah, thank you for the update. Um, I'm just a bit concerned that the intent of the bylaw, um, is kind of being sidestepped by some property owners where they're shutting down lodging houses to create duplexes and triplexes so that they don't have to get licensed and don't have to follow the rules. Um, and I just wondered if it would be worthwhile taking this back to the working group to, you know, get their feedback on maybe how to move forward with this rather than just letting this go unnoticed. Who would like to take that one? Miss Vanderel through the chair. I think the intent of the lodging house program is still being met in terms of the safety compliance piece, which was what was paramount. So whether they legalize the property as a duplex or triplex, it's still meeting the intent of safe and adequate housing, it's an option that they have to pursue lodging or an alternative measure. So, we're trying to make sure that property owners have all of that information available so that they can make a decision that best suits uh their property and their needs. But what we're losing, we're losing like more deeply affordable housing stock, right? Because of the way um some not I'm not saying all but because of the way some property owners are are approaching this like you know the fact that we opened up lodging houses to more areas in the city and taking away some of the restrictions of distancing from one one site to another. Um we we're kind of losing that. I think the duplexing was also an issue in uh Dune because that wasn't permitted previously either. So now that it is um there's a lot more options available to the to the property owners for them to decide what they want to do as long as they're legalizing the property appropriately. Okay. So this is for information only, but maybe we can talk Thank you. Okay. Very good. Um, we are going to move to the uh the renovation bylaw item. I just want to note uh first off uh councilors uh Singh and councelor Stretch do have conflicts. So if you're wondering why they're not participating, it's because they do have conflicts on this particular item. I also need to read this. Okay. uh to all delegations. The city values and encourages participation and dialogue in a democratic process that occurs in council and committee meetings and through written submissions and correspondence. It is important that these interactions remain respectful towards other members of the public, staff and council in cases where dialogue is not respectful or a delegate interrupts counselor, staff or other delegations, makes derogatory statements about about counselor, staff or others that are disrespectful or use of language that is considered harmful or defamatory. uh the chair may interject and take uh necessary actions to maintain a respectful inclusive environment for everyone which could involve removal from the meeting. Uh last reminder, delegations are permitted to address uh committee for a maximum of five minutes uh which will be displayed on the screen in front of you. When there's 30 seconds remaining in your time, you will hear a small beep. Uh that will signal you do have 30 seconds remaining. Uh take your time to conclude your presentation. and there will be a second tone at the completion of your time and the microphones will turn off shortly after that 5minute mark. Uh lastly, please do not take offense if following your presentation there are no questions from council. This is council's time to really listen and reflect upon the opinions and ideas shared with us from our community members. Uh I would also add that we do have uh I think six 16 or 17 delegations. So, I would encourage just so folks aren't waiting here, you know, all night for the chance to speak, I would encourage you to be uh concise in your questions and and try to limit them to questions of clarification. Okay. Uh with that, I would ask Miss Vanderel to introduce good evening. In June 2025, staff were directed to develop a rental renovation licensing bylaw. Optimus SPR which was engaged as part of this process to conduct policy research, undertake municipal benchmarking and facilitate targeted engagement. Optimus SB prepared a recommendations report outlining key considerations to guide the development of a rental renovation licensing bylaw tailored to Kitchener's context. Consultants Jesse and Vina from Optim Optimus SPR here this evening and I'll turn it over to them to present their findings. Everyone uh my name is Bina Thuran joined by my colleague Jesse from the Optimus team. Today we are presenting on the evictions due to renovations bylaw. Our role was to research um the practices in or in other municipalities for this work that we've done uh engage with other stakeholders and bring forth practical sound advice to support council's consideration of a bylaw. I'll briefly cover what we did, what uh we heard, and what we'll be recommending. In terms of the main objectives of our work, uh there's four. We first uh reviewed how other m municipalities handle renovation related evictions including legal considerations. Second, meaningful uh engagement with tenants, landlords, and community organizations. Third, to capture diverse lived experiences, especially from residents from more vulnerable uh who are more vulnerable to displacement. And finally, to provide the city with clear, actionable recommendations that can be implemented in and enforced. Um this the focus throughout was balancing tenant protection with legitimate renovation needs. So in terms of the renovation the research that we've completed uh to support our activities. We reviewed existing city data past reports and existing policies. We examined approaches used in other m municipalities with similar bylaws at the time Hamilton London and Toronto. We conducted a stakeholder survey with a strong response of 643 participants and we hel hel held eight focus groups with tenants, landlords and interest groups both virtually and in person to explore concerns in more depth. In terms of our key findings, a number of consistent uh consistent themes emerged. Uh evictions linked to renovations, particularly in bad faith, are a real concern, and many cases are never formally reported. Vulnerable renters face the greatest challenges, particularly when trying to return after renovations are complete, and the landlord tenant board process was widely described as being slow and difficult to navigate. Residents want clear information earlier, better oversight when notices are issued, and support during displacement and return. Both tenants and landlords emphasize the need for clear, predictable, and workable rules. Overall, there was strong support for a measured approach, one that protects tenants while allowing necessary uh renovations to take place. Research from other municipalities show that clear legal intent, good program design, and plain language communication are critical to success. In terms of recommendations based on this work, we re recommend um adopting a rental renovation licensing bylaw. This would require a per unit license when renovations require a tenant to temporarily move out triggered by an N13. The approach relies on existing documentation such as building permits, uh professional confirmations that vacancies required. It it is designed to reinforce existing rights under the provincial law rather than create new ones and the bylaw would include clear enforcement tools including inspections penalties for non-compliance. We recommend a starting application fee of $650 with the option to review after implementation. Effective delivery would require approximately two to three dedicated staffs supported by appropriate systems. In terms of implementation considerations, it would require coordination across several city divisions. We recommend starting with a small dedicated team supported by timebound IT setup resources. While applications uh volumes are expected to be modest, um there is a requirement uh for staffing in terms of the complexity of um technical reviews, inquiries, inspections and complaints. Clear workflows, integrated systems, and consistent enforcement um will be essential as well as plain language public communication is important so everyone understands their rights and responsibilities. So in closing, um this approach provides council with a balanced grounded framework that is intended to be both protective and practical. Thank you. And Miss Vander, will you be just sorry folks unless if there's any uh clarifying questions now, you can ask them. Um again I would ask that you if there's anything um more in depth wait to hear from the delegations as well. Uh so I will um begin with councelor Chapman. Yeah I was just um I as soon recall in the report you referenced a starting date of the beginning of July end of June. Um I noticed you didn't mention that in your presentation. Can you just maybe tell us how you came up with that date and the importance of it? Yeah. So through the chair um the date was determined in um collaboration discussion with staff in terms of the amount of time that would be required to uh get in place resources who uh would be able to um understand explain and ultimately enforce the the bylaw with the public the amount of time required for development of uh training communication material as well. And there are um although we didn't go into a deep dive of this but in consultations with staff there are um modifications setups to existing IT systems so that all this can be tracked and reported accordingly. So those were some of the considerations that went into the um timelines. Okay. Thank you. Thank you and councelor Nitus. Yeah. Thank you chair Davey and thank you for coming in. I guess my my question would be with regards to you're recommending staff um two or three hires. How do you recommend the city fund that? So through the chair um at the end of today that wasn't part of our our our scope. We we didn't um look into the detailed funding for staff. did um note that the um $650 application fee is not a full cost recovery of the of the program and I think it represents somewhere um around the kind the 10% range. So, uh that was a a factor noted in the report. Okay. And then I guess my other question would be with regards to so when you were making these recommendations, how did you base your recommendations? Did you did you look at what the province is providing and what the difference is between these two programs? So first chair so in terms of of how we we came up with the recommendations um a few guiding principles. So wanted to make sure that uh we were not duplicating uh provincial um requirements. also wanted to make sure that we were balancing the um uh ability and uh sort of right for landlords to make legal renovations while also recognizing that this is a um a situation where we heard through our consultations and I know the council provided reports previously that there are um uh instances of of uh evictions to renovations that go unreported and are um uh a a realistic community. So we are trying to balance both both sides of this uh and looking at where there are opportunities for um supports we put in place. Okay. I guess my la my last question would be um did you look at the outcomes of what what occurred at the LTB I mean at the O no LTB and how this would correlate like because the outcomes whatever happens there how do they how do they correlate um go through chair in in terms of uh what respect sorry could you expand on that so when someone goes and applies for this and doesn't follow the rules how how who who who takes responsibility for that does the LTB take responsibility for it or does this take responsibility for it. Yeah, I think the overriding legislation is the resident tendencies act. Um so through that the LGBT can uh adjudicate decisions based on that. Um in terms of the additional um process that was uh completed was just ensuring that there is that licensing requirement before um the temporary eviction due to renovation takes place. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Schneider. Thank you, Chair Davyy, and thank you for the report and for coming in. Uh, one of the recommendations is uh, supporting a measured approach to tenant protections, reinforcing existing rights under provincial law without adding new requirements. So, what would this bylaw provide that the LTB process does not? I believe that's related to the last question, the response there that it it is the additional licensing uh requirement uh that landlords are required to um apply for pre uh evictions due to renovations. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Benovich. Yeah, thanks. Just one quick question. Um you know, only a only a few municipalities so far this across Ontario. Do you have a a sense of of why that is and and is there any sort of trajectory that you know through your work you've you've learned about that you can share with us? Um so through the chair it's a it's an excellent question. Um the the short answer is we as you appreciate can't speak for you know why other municipalities have or or have not really um explored this. You know, we do hear about this in in our conversations. I know that your your neighbors in Waterlue, I believe, um went through this uh this process since we completed our work. So, there are uh rumblings of it. In terms of the exact uh decisions as to why does or does not move forward with considering or implementing a similar bylaw, you know, really we don't have any sort of insight baseball, so to speak, in terms of of that um that specifics. And you know as the report does note uh it is a uh a new set of bylaws and and what I mean by that is you know even the the oldest of these bylaws is maybe a year old at this point. Um one of the things that as the report does say uh there is still evaluation and monitoring of the the impacts of of this bylaw that other municipalities did flag for us. So you know it could be a case um where some municipalities are kind of in a wait and see uh mentality. Okay. Thank you. And with a followup, councelor Chapman. Yeah. Um, so you just mentioned Waterlue and I just wondered um, you know, they didn't take a modest approach to the to the bylaw. I wondered if you could comment on that. Uh so through in terms of why well no I mean the pros and cons maybe of um the the different approach and um would would your report look any different today if you were aware if the waterl um bylaw had already been passed given that you know one would maybe want consistency within the region. Yeah, through the chair. Um, so at the time of us doing our research, Waterloo's bylaw did not uh be released. So we based um the recommendations on the three other jurisdictions that we looked at. Um at this point haven't delved into analysis of uh you know would that impact any of the recommendations. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. And Miss Venderg, I understand you had some comments as well, correct for the delegations. Go ahead. Uh, just further to councelor Chapman's question, city of Waterlue did recommend a modest approach is what they brought forward to their council and then a motion was adopted to add the uh compensation regulations afterwards. Okay. Thank you. There are no further questions from committees. Miss Vanderel, you want to go ahead? My presentation will build on the information shared by Optimus SPR and will outline the key components of the proposed bylaw along with the recommendations, resourcing, and implementation plan. The proposed bylaw introduces a modest licensing model that enhances transparency and oversight without duplicating provincial processes or going beyond what is already provided for under the residential tenencies act. Key components of the proposed bylaw would include landlords must apply for a license within 7 days of serving an N13 notice. A tenant information package must be provided at the same time as the N13 outlining the processes and available supports. License applications must include required documentation such as issued building permits and a qualified person's report that confirms the need for vacant possession. The issued license must be posted on the unit door for the duration of the repair. Affidavits must confirm that all required information be provided to the tenants. A separate license is required for each unit with a $650 license application fee. The bylaw would establish clear prohibitions, inspection authority, and enforcement tools. Offenses and penalties are included in the bylaw and would be enforceable under both the provincial offenses act and the administrative monetary penalty system. Feedback from municipalities have implemented similar programs show that while the number of license applications remains low, the overall workload has significant impact, particularly in the areas of investigation, enforcement, and tenant support. Because application volumes are expected to remain low, this type of program does not operate under a cost recovery model. Other jurisdictions added between three and 14 full-time staff to manage the anticipated workload. Based on the comparator analysis, current workload pressures and recommendations from Optimus SPR, a staffing complement of two to three FTEES is recommended for BAM imple implementation in Kitchener. Before outlining the recommended resources, I wanted to briefly highlight our current staffing model in licensing services. Licensing administrators manage application processing, frontline customer service, issue marriage licenses, and manage the lottery licensing program. Licensing inspectors, conduct inspections and investigations, lead public education, and enforce all of our licensing bylaws. Right now, our administrators are at full capacity. To manage peak demand, inspectors are often pulled into administrative work, which limits their ability to conduct their field inspections, onboard new businesses, and maintain proactive enforcement. To give a sense of scale, between 2024 and 2025, licensing administration supported nearly 9,000 customers at the customer service center. During that same period, we received over 6,600 business license applications. 2,000 of those were processed directly by licensing inspectors. Inspectors also completed roughly 2,000 investigations over that same time period. These numbers show a significant administrative load across the section and how often inspe inspectors are diverted from their core enforcement responsibilities. To address these gaps, we are recommending two full-time positions, a licensing administrator and a new tenant liaison role. These positions are essential to sure ensure that the rental renovation licensing program is properly resourced and set up for successful implementation. Adding a licensing administrator would allow inspectors to refocus on proactive fieldwork across their existing portfolios as well as the new rental renovation licensing program. This role also helps relieve current administrative pressures, enabling the team to handle higher call volumes, process applications faster, and meet increased demands expected with this new program. The tenant liaison role would provide a dedicated point of contact for tenants facing challenges with renovation and demolition driven displacement, offering education and connections to external legal and social supports. Given the complexity of these situations, this position would benefit from experience in social work and strong understanding of the residential tenencies act, expertise that current staff do not possess. This role would enhance the city's capacity to respond to a growing range of housing needs, including the rental replacement bylaw, property standards, and other rental housing related initiatives. The licensing administrator, licensing inspector, and tenant support liaison would work together to provide a compliment complimentary customer service experience. The administrator would manage frontline customer service, general inquiries, and application processing. The inspector handles field compliance and enforcement. And the tenant liaison supports tenants directly through this process. Together, these roles create a coordinated and responsive and supportive service to both the tenants and landlords. If approved, staff are recommending an implementation date of January 1st, 2027 to allow for system modifications, administrative organization, recruitment and training of staff, followed by an education and awareness campaign to focus on the new regulations and associated licensing processes. Thank you, and we'll take questions. Thank you. There are a few questions beginning with councelor Chapman. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the report. Um I just wanted to you had there the start date of of January 1st, 2027. Um and I just wanted to go back to the the recommendation in the report by um the consultants. Um and I think in the report you also said that you know we could do it in September. Um would it be possible to to sort of commit to a September 1 start date? So through the chair um because the municipal election occurs in the fall of 2026 which would not have been known to Optimus SBR um there are some challenging resource constraints as it relates to implementing um and ensuring that there is dedicated support to fulfill the two recruitment roles. Uh we did speak to the fact that the two rolls were would be necessary and so we would require budget adoption outside of the standard budget process in order to make that happen. But in the fall the municipal election becomes our priority. Okay. But if you're hiring new people, I mean you've already got the people to do the election. So through the chair, the municipal election is a comprehensive project that involves many staff across the organization um in order to deliver the 50 plus election locations. We do require staff in the clerk's office as a whole to participate in each of the election administration processes. So licensing staff is heavily involved in in triaging customer inquiries as it relates to the voters's list and voter notification cards. Um so their attention is diverted in August to September and October to facilitate that. Okay. Um, my next question has to do with the um the rental replacement staff. Are they available to help with the um renovation bylaw implementation and oversight? Maybe you can tell us you what Miss Goss. So through the chair, what I can say is that to date there have been 17 inquiries um to understand the requirements of the rental replacement bylaw uh since it was approved in June of 2024 and there have been six applications that have been approved uh for demolition permits including conditions for rental replacement. What I can say about our current um senior housing planner um their role their primary function in that role is to establish policies and strategies related to housing uh mainly developing the next iteration of our housing for all affordable housing strategy being an example. Um they are also uh they also support and are accountable for our the entirety of our city's uh housing accelerator fund uh which has 10 initiatives which are ongoing various stages of process. Currently the role also um establishes and maintains relationships with housing providers and is a key liaison with the region uh on housing related matters. Um right now um they do several tasks on the rental replacement bylaw implementation. They do things that are better suited to the tenant support position being recommended today. Um including conversations with landlords and tenants about requirements of the bylaw, preparation of standard agreements and maintaining documentation. Uh it is um our priority to have the senior uh housing planner uh focus work on strategy development and strategy implementation going forward. Okay. My last question has to do with the um waterl bylaw and as I asked the um consultant as well I'll ask you Kristen um are you able to comment on the the waterl bylaw and the importance of having continuity within the region? through the chair. So, as mentioned earlier, Waterlue staff recommended the same uh modest bylaw approach that we're recommending here today. Uh however, they did receive a motion to adopt the compensation provisions with which they have moved forward with uh based on our consultants recommendations and concerns regarding potential duplication of provincial authority or going above and beyond what's provided for under the residential tenencies act opens the bylaw up out of m municipal jurisdiction and then there's a risk for the bylaw to be appealed or potentially quashed. Okay. Um I actually have one more question. Um, in one of the reports we got today regarding the 2025 variance report, it said that we had a surplus of 57,000 um, taxup supported operations dollars. Um, and I was just wondering um, is that money available to to um, attach to this program? That's a finance question, Mr. Lenbuk. So through the chair, that's a year- end surplus that we reported which positive variance that goes to our tax stabilization reserve. So that is funding that would be used in one-time event to offset um unforeseen uh items that would impact the budget. So it wouldn't be something that would be available for this type of initiative. Uh wouldn't be wouldn't be available for this type of initiative. It would it normally would be um something that uh would cover deficits in future years is is the intent of the reserve um if we do find ourselves in that position. Okay. Thank you. Thank you councelor Anitis. Yeah, thank you chair Davyy and thanks staff for for your presentation. I guess my one question would be Warloo keeps being discussed. How many employee FTEEs or employees are are being looked at to be hired in Wateroo? Miss Vanag you can just uh stay queued in. Okay. uh through the chair, they required three FTEEs as a part of this program. Okay. And out of curiosity, do you do you know how they're funding those positions? I do not. Okay. Um if we have let's say a situation where a landlord goes through this process and doesn't follow the rules at all. How h what what what what powers do we have to to correctify the situation? Can you clarify? they don't follow the rules of the municipal bylaw that we're implementing, then there's provisions for uh offenses and penalties through the provincial offenses act or uh the amps bylaw as well. Okay. Can you tell us what those fines are? Uh the amps bylaw charges we would bring forward once the bylaw passes for implementation uh through the POA court. I believe it's $25,000 up to $100,000 for a corporation. I'm not mistaken. Okay. So, you're saying in your report that there is no uh I guess similarities towards what the LTB would be doing. Um have we connected with the province at all to to make sure that we're not cross referencing duplicating anything? So that is the intent of this bylaw is to not overstep into the provincial uh regulations. So that is why we we aren't proposing the additional moving expenses, rent topups and compensation provisions as those are outside of what the residential tenencies act provides for. Okay. But so in the end, if a landlord doesn't follow the rules, we can technically find that person, but the end of the day, it doesn't solve the issue of the the tenant being able to come back or whatever whatever the circumstance may be. So ultimately, the only body that can enforce an eviction order is the landlord tenant board. Okay. So I guess my question is how is that not duplication? This is just additional oversight to make sure that the landlords are issuing the proper N13 notices, the tenants are provided with the information and resources available to them. Okay. And I guess my last question would be with regards to did we go to the province and ask for some funding because this is truly their jurisdiction. So did we ask them to give us some support? I think the municipalities are continuing to advocate to the province for changes to the residential tenencies act and the landlord tenant board as well as a lot of the advoc advocacy groups that are here today. Okay. Thanks. Thank you, Mayor Venovich. Thanks very much, Chair Davey. And uh one uh one quick question just from a a process point of view. Um, and I understand because of the election why we've kind of delayed some some things here, but normally our our practice on sort of new policy initiatives would be to consider them throughout the the term and then um particularly if they have budgetary implications as this does refer it to the subject and budget. So we would approve it in principle but then move it to the the budget process for consideration. Um, and I'm just if staff can provide some insight as to maybe why we didn't take that approach in this instance. So through the chair the because it's an election year, the 2027 budget is expected to be considered in January and so respecting the appetite to bring this matter forward um as quickly as possible uh we had prepared the report with the FTEEs to be added as part of the program implementation. Um we are we can consider deferral of the resources to the 2027 budget. That will ultimately impact the bylaw implementation date. As a report notes, six months is is the approximate time frame to implement the bylaw. So if we uh wait until the 2027 budget, the bylaw would likely be in effect for mid year in 2027. So if that was something that council considered, then we're probably looking at a July 1 implementation or something. So through the chair, yeah, between July and September implementation. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, councelor Jano. Thank you, Chair Davyy. And uh thanks to staff. This is a really really informative uh report um highlighting lots of concerns by the tenants and the landlords. Um just yeah uh great great job. A few questions. Um, so is there I didn't notice if there's a list of what legitimate renovations are going to be. Um, so like if somebody comes and says, "Well, I need to paint." We we've heard those stories, paint or change a cupboard. So, do we have an idea of what we're going to consider um legal renovations? So, the renovations would have to be something that would require the vacant possession of the unit. So a building permit would need to be required for the renovations. So any aesthetic work such as painting or changing of cabinets or anything like that would not require a building permit. So would not fall under the scope. Additionally, we're asking for a qualified person's report to accompany their application, which would be an engineer, an architect, um somebody that would be able to sign off that these renovations that they're proposing would actually require vacant possession. Okay. Thank you. Um, are I guess are we confident enough in uh believing that possible uh qualifications are not legitimate when they're provided to us as far as somebody say like somebody saying they're an engineer, but they're not really. But you know, in today's day and time, we can put anything on a documentation and and and make it real. So, is there a concern that could happen? we would be able to verify that somebody is an actual certified. You would or would it? Would would Okay. Um and so you also mentioned that the intake I believe it said you thought it would be low. So if if we're if we're if we're believing that the the intake is low, why the need for two to three, why not like one and and have the person who's looking after I know we talked you talked about uh uh Miss Goss mentioned who's overseeing the rental replacement bylaw. Um but if we're expecting it to be low, why are we anticipating two or three? So based on the experience from other municipalities that have implemented a similar bylaw, well, they've illustrated that the intake of the application is low, the number of complaints and investigation and fieldwork far surpasses uh the capabilities of what the existing staff teams have. And currently we're at capacity and based on that information, we we would not be able to have the available teams out in the field to support the investigation and enforcement work. Okay. Thank you. Um, and so do we receive a lot of calls or does our our corporate contact center receive a lot of calls regarding um questions about rent renovations? Natalie, I we wouldn't have you don't have that stat. Okay. Um, and what right now I know compensation was discussed. What what kind of compensation does the RTA provide right now to the tenants? So, yeah, the residency tenants act. Yeah. Sorry, I thought that was um there is compensation required under the residential tendencies act uh whether the person is uh given up their right of refusal or not to return to the unit. Uh so usually it's in the amount of equal to three months uh rent if it's a building with five or more units. Um, and then if it's a building with less than that, uh, it's a one month rent compensation. Okay. Um, and so on that on that part, you know, we we passed the rental replacement bylaw, was it last year or the year before with financial obligations that the owners have to provide. And I would say they're they're a pretty substantive amount of of compensation that the tenants um could receive if if the owners or the landlords or owners go through with the process. So why I understand why we didn't want to duplicate some provincial um legislation, but if we look at some other uh municipalities, they're going over and above, which I I think we have the ability to do. Um, and if the province wants to challenge us or the a landlord wants to challenge us, I I would think it, you know, we'd have a good defense to say this is the reasoning why. And so why I just I'm having a hard time why we did one for one and not not this one. Miss Goss wants to take that one. Go ahead. So through the chair, the rental replacement bylaw is enabled by specific authority under the municipal act and unlike the bylaw in front of committee today, it is not predicated on the issuance of an N13 or termination of teny. Rather, the requirements of our rental uh replacement bylaw are triggered through a demolition control application made under the planning act. And municipal act allows us to specifically condition um like attach conditions to the demolition control application. And for those conditions to be secured through an agreement registered on the title of the property. Uh in the case of the rental replacement bylaw, we are regulating demolitions. We are not regulating evictions. Thank you, Councelor Schneider. Thank you, Chair Davyy. I just want to dig a little deeper on something that councelor Deno brought up about um the qualifications needed for a unit to be vacated and and we're saying a building permit is is the basis of that. you some decks in Kitchener would require a building permit, but that wouldn't necessarily mean uh the tenant would need to vacate the unit if that was the case. And there's some other renovations that require a building permit, but you know, in your own home, uh you can get the building permit and get the work done, not necessarily have to vacate the home. So, uh, are there specific situations that we can show, uh, both the tenant and a landlord that would, uh, show that the building permit, uh, even though it was issued does require the unit to be vacated? Go ahead. Sorry. for the chair. That's why we're requesting the addition of the qualified uh person's report so that it's an engineer, an architect, uh somebody with the the skill set to determine whether the scope of renovation work would actually require vacant possession or if it's something that can be done while the tenant is still living there uh or perhaps it's something that would only be could be accommodated over a few days and not a long period of time. Okay, thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you. We have some folks in for a second. Reminder, I have a lot of questions too, but I'm going to wait till after the delegations. We have two more in the queue. Uh, councelor Deno. Thank you, uh, Chair Dave and thanks uh, Councelor Schneider for following up on that because I'd hate to see George Castanza become an architect in the city because it has happened before. Add a little little lightness to the the conversation. Um, so two more questions. Are we seeing uh renovations amongst all types of buildings like you know 30 store 20 stories and eight stories and four stories like do we have any data on what we're if there's a trend um and if there's a consistent trend I believe there is among uh specific owners so through the chair we have requested updated um N13 N12 T5 data from the province for all of 2025. We have yet to receive that. In our report last June, we provided an overview of N12s, N13s, and T5s that have issued um since 2017 to the end of March last year. Within that report, and bear with me as I find the information from that report, um we tried to cross reference it with building permits that were issued. Um it is really hard to to do that. I think what I can say is there is no consistent um N13 per type of unit. So we did notice that there were some in basement units, some in higherrise developments, some in lowerrise developments. So it is a type of eviction notice that is happening across all unit types in the city. Okay. Thank you. And obviously we don't know what else is going on because there's not 100% documentation or people coming forward. My last question is um and I'm going to flip to the landlord side. What happens if the tenant refuses to leave? If a valid N13 um is issued and the tenant just refuses to leave, they're not they're not budgeted. What happens in that point? At that point, so the landlord would pursue through the landlord tenant board to get an eviction order. um and that would allow them to um evict the tenant and they would have to go through the process of using the sheriff's office if applicable to get the individual out. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Chapman. Yeah. Thank you. Um in the August 26, 2024 motion that um the city passed, it um the city supported the resolution adopted by the city of Toronto. And one of the clauses within that motion um called for the landlord calling on the landlord to be quote be responsible for finding temporary accommodation or provide sufficient relocation assistance for their tenants for the duration of the renovations. So, I'm I'm not quite sure why we're um cautious about adding those um those additional um compensation pieces when we when a year ago and what two years ago, August 26, 2024, we were supportive of this so through the chair What I can note is that my understanding of that motion was that that was a a council motion that was passed and staff did not take a position on that motion. Council passed it. Okay. Thank you, councelor Anitis. Yeah. Thank you, Chair Dy. I guess this is more or less maybe for Dan. Um, on the scale of of council priorities, where would this fall in respect? That sounds like a question for council, but well, we have Yeah, but we have a lot of priorities already on the list. So, I'm just wondering how where would this fall? Yeah, I think it'd be difficult for him to put a number on it, but Mr. Chapman, uh, through the chair, I would agree, Mr. Chairman, that's a decision for you to make in the context of the report tonight. What I can say is the two processes that we run comprehensively for council are the strategic planning process and the budget process. And it's fair to say that housing generally has emerged as a high priority, a top priority for the city. And so it certainly fits that council would deliberate on this issue in that context. On the issue of resources though, it's a budget process that typically is a prioritization process for council. And so you're being asked tonight to deal with a pre-approval of headcount and staffing. It's your prerogative to do that within the year. Typically, that would be done through a budget process, and that's a comprehensive way for council to set priorities. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Actually, it's good segue to my I am going to hold most my question except for this one. Um, my concern is the same. My concern is I I don't like um spending money outside of the budget process because the hardest thing that we have to do is is prioritize. So I guess I would ask if staff can comment um on a high level realizing that we're far away. Um I guess the pressures or concern about the next budget process for the next council and how this might uh play a role or fit in. Do they see this as a challenge um given the current environment? Mr. Lumbar. So to the chair um yeah certainly I think you see around us that there's a lot of uncertainty in in terms of the global economy local economy um even recently seeing things like fuel prices increase. We know that that's going to put pressure on things like inflation uh which then will increase you know cost of even goods and services that we purchase as a municipality for our operations. Um you know other things that obviously are on the horizon are is a renegotiation of trade agreements KSMA in particular in terms of of what that looks like and so that could put pressure obviously from an operating perspective but also from a capital perspective as well. Um and then today you did hear about water capacity constraint uh issues that uh you know obviously are affecting our capital plan and and will have an impact there uh but also uh revenue potential revenue shortfalls as well which could put pressure on the operating budget for 2027. So certainly as Mr. Javan indicated um you know if you're approving the FTS uh tonight as part of the report you would be be precommitting uh the 2027 budget which would have a tax levy impact of of one% uh for two FDES if if the resource ask was much more significant obviously that uh that amount would increase as well and so always as a best practice we would recommend that um council consider priorities through the budget process because you do then see the full financial also looking at other resource requests that might come through to budget at that time and then you can uh make a decision. Uh but is totally up to council. This is something that you can still proceed with if you're comfortable understanding that you will be approving impacts for the 2027 budget. Uh if you do proceed with what's recommended in the uh the staff report. Okay. Thank you for that. Councelor Chapman, you've have have had two rounds. We've got a lot of people waiting. Could you hold your questions afterwards? Is that okay? Thank you. Pardon me. Okay. Can counc go ahead, please. Yeah. I was just wondering if um for the council meeting if staff could come back with the a list of potential um res areas in the reserve funds that we could potentially use to tap into to cover these. I think I'll let staff think on that one and then we'll deal with that when we come to the motions. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Very good. So again, thank you again folks that are here uh for your patience. I would also note we did have um some written submissions as well. Uh but we will get into the delegations. Uh the first uh delegation that we have is uh Elliot Wand. Is Elliot here? There he is. Good evening. Go ahead when you're ready. Thank you. Uh hello Mayor. Hello counselors. um here again talking about this issue. Um as somebody that is in the midst of a renovation uh at this moment, I maybe have a bit of a a unique take um and it may be uh in kind of a unique place to talk about uh bylaws like this and why they're very important to those of us facing this. Um I do want to say I'm very happy to see that this is going forward. I think a lot of the things recommended uh are all very good things, but I don't think good enough bylaw um is what we need. I think we need a strong bylaw on this. Um and it's disappointing to see that some of these additional protections uh have not been included in this as it's written currently. Uh the recommendation not to include these tenant protections like rent topups kind of misses a big part of the point of these types of bylaws. Um evictions due to renovations are going to happen. We can't change that. It is there are going to be times where they possession building is absolutely required and that is just the way the world works. Um, but the issue is that these N13 notices are being used so liberally because it gives these bad actors an opportunity to violate a tenants's right of first refusal or bank on the fact that they might not know that they have that option in order just to make some extra money. When this happens, uh, if a tenants's right of first refusal has been violated, they have to gather proof. They've got to make a case to the LTB. They've got to wait for months and months and months and months for that case to be heard. Um, all while they're probably having to pay more rent or whatever their new accommodations are, uh, they're probably working a full-time job on top of dealing with, uh, all of this paperwork, all the stress. Um, the most compensation I've heard of a tenant getting, um, when I was speaking with a lawyer that kind of deals with stuff like this, they said the most that they've seen a tenant get was $10,000. Might seem like a lot, but if your rent is going from $1,000 to $2,000 or $2,500, that $10,000 is not even a year's worth of compensation for your increased rent that you're now paying. Um, While this is all happening, the landlord's profiting because they're making twice as much off of your unit. If I have to move, I'm probably looking at between $1,800 and $2,500 a month for a similar unit to what I now pay about $1,000 for. Um, I'm one of two remaining tenants in my building of eight. Um, we all pay kind of a roughly similar amount of $1,000, but um, it's just me and my one, uh, upstairs neighbor left. All the new are going for $2,500. Um, so the landlord is making a lot of extra money off of this. I don't see why we can't ask them or make them in this case cover the rental difference because the monetary cost to them for evicting us, even if we fight them at the LTB, even if they have to pay us $10,000, they're making that back in a year. and the rest of us still have to pay double or triple the rent. I'm not my wage is not going to increase at work if I get evicted and my, you know, rent doubles. Um, but my landlord's going to reap all the benefits and they'll do that for years and years and years. Um, it's I know it's not all landlords, but these unscrupulous ones, they don't care. Um, they care so little. I got my rental increase notice and they put last year's amount on it. So, they're trying to charge me 2.5%. The max allowable this year is 2.1%. They don't even care enough to check the paperwork they're filling out is right because there's no penalty for them. Like unless I put in all the work or other tenants put in all the work, they get away with this all the time. So, the cities have to hold them accountable. The province isn't doing it right. So good enough is not good enough. I don't see why the residents of Kitchener don't deserve the same protections that all of these other cities are getting. Thank you very much for your presentation. Uh Councelor Chapman has a clarifying question. Yep. Um so um Hamilton gives it $1,500 a month for that that rent differential is that um whereas Waterlue doesn't specify they just say they would give the the full amount right um which like in your case because you're you're experiencing this what what to you seems most um workable I mean either I'm sure there's reasons to them putting a specific number on Um, but I think it should be up to the landlord to cover whatever that cost differential is. I think the easiest way to do that is just to look at whatever that tenant was paying at the current or at the unit that they're being removed from and whatever they're going to have to pay for the intro because that tenant's also going to incur other costs, right? Like good luck getting a three-month lease, right? So regardless of how you calculate it, I think it all works out to the same more or less for the Okay, thank you. Those appear to be all the questions. Thank you, Mr. W for taking the time today. Appreciate it. Uh the next delegation I believe is virtual Barb Smith. Thank you for try to read this really quick. So, hi, my name is I've lived in the region for most of my life. You might remember me from the last time I came to speak. I have recently been rected from my apartment and trying to adjust to a 100% increase in my housing cost while completing my bachelor degree and raising a child on as a refresher. My renovation was granted by the LTV. Even though some of the needed repairs had already been done, my landlord claimed the water needed to be changed, but the city had already upgrade. Then they claimed they were worried about the main cast iron pipe leading to the sewer also replaced when it actually had leaked a few years back. Then it was in the pipes at the hearing when in reality the plumbing was PVC. My evidence for some reason was considered circumced asking for adjustments. The hearing proceeded without them and I lost. I didn't even get a closing statement. There's no duty. I could have done I didn't have the energy for an appeal. Then the order from the landlord tenant said I was allowed to move back in. So I should be safe, right? My focus shifted to trying to find a landlord that would believe that I could go from paying $1,20 a month to 2,000 on a student's income. After waiting through fake landlords just as shady as the one I already had and places so outrageously priced, I had three weeks left until my landlord could file with the sheriff. When I finally found a place to move and here we are almost a year later in my home in office and I spend the weekend driving on top of things. Is this what you want for the region to be a an accountant can't afford to live. My old apartment sits empty. The renovations are completed and it was just from the lead photo. They've been planning the sale for some time. The ground is covered in two feet of snow in the photo. And at no, they're never going to let me back in. I was told my fears were unfounded. right here in the order and you can pursue a sob and for some kind of representation on an already stretched budget from the pictures on the MLS website in the exact same spot they were even though one of the reasons that I had to leave for the renovation So the taps could be relocated to the other side of the shower and they didn't know how long there would be no shower. In fact, the tub, toilet, and vanity are all in the exact same places when I live there. And my experience is not unique. Many people are pushed from their home with claims of major repairs. ignore maintenance for years and claim the places are in disrepair and tenants need to be removed. Then they invest the bare minimum and hope for a quick sale before the tenant notices. This behavior is pushing more and more of our neighbors to homelessness and unsafe living situations. These bad actors circumventing the RTA affect more than just their tenants. New investors fall victim to purchasing these poorly maintained properties. Cost for homelessness, welfare, rental assistance, and policing all follow municipalities and provinces. How much has your budget increased for policing and emergency services because of encampments? Their profits come from those costs. People claim that government interference in the housing market stalls investments. In Tom's article on rent control, he refers to the common belief that rent controls negatively affecting triumph of ideology and propaganda over evidence and refers to a time in 1900's Ireland where there were no regulations and the majority were renters. Conditions were deplorable and prices were out of control. Some people may say that a tenant has no claim to a rented property and the investor is entitled to their because they took the risk. But what about the risk of the renter? When a renter moves their home into a property, they put their whole life on the line. The risk goes both ways. One doesn't exist without the other. If landlords were properly maintaining their units all along, they wouldn't need to displace tenants and thanks. Thank you, Miss Smith, for taking the time. Uh there do not appear to be any questions. Okay. No, it's certainly okay. Thank you. Uh next is Kayla Andred from the Ontario Landlords Watch virtual as well. Sorry about that. I just got myself off mute. No problem. We can hear you. Go ahead. Perfect. Good evening, mayor, members of council. My name is Kayla Andre. I am the founder of Ontario Watch, a grassroots organization started in Cambridge. Uh we represent house providers uh industry professionals and tenants across Ontario. and we have been an advocate for balanced evidence-based housing policies that protect both tenants and the people providing housing. I'm here today regarding the proposed rental renovation license bylaw. As its core, this bylaw adds another layer of regulations on top of what already exists at the provincial level. The province already governs rent eviction related evictions through the res. The N3 process is clear. Tenants receive notice they can They are entitled to compensation. They have the right for the first refusal. If there is a disagreement, the landlord decides they raises an important question. What is the purpose of this bylaw? Is it intended to stop bad actors or is it going to stop responsible housing providers from carrying out legitimate repairs? Underneath the residential intensity act, housing providers already have the legal right to require vacant possession when major truly cannot be completed with the tenant in place. At the same time, tenants are protected. They have the right to return to their unit at the same rental rate. The right their rights are clearly stated on the N3 application. The legislation designed to balance both sides. When we add another municipal approved layer, we risk interfering with the balance and creating barriers and for the responsible owner who are simply trying to maintain safe andable housing. It's also important to look at the evidence. We are not seeing widespread findings of bad faith and at the landlord intent. In fact, we are discussing what took place in water. The data showed only 34 applications over 5 years. That is very small number and it does not suggest a symptomatic problem that requires broad licensing regime. We would like to the sweeping regulations without clear evidence of the widespread issue. We risk creating polic is not the problem. This bylaw creates a second approval process. Even after following provincial laws, housing providers who now need to apply for municipal license, submit affidavit, obtain a professional report, provide building permits, and wait for the approval to move forward. This means more delays, more uncertainty, even if necessary safety repairs are needed. This is especially concerning given the amount of aging housing stock in many aren't optional. They're needed to address mold, plumbing, structural issues, and overall safety. When we make those renovations harder to complete, we risk discouraging reinvestments and the very housing tenants rely on. The bylaw also requires a separate license for each individual unit. The multiple unit buildings buildings that multiply. This doesn't stop bad actors. It adds paperwork for those already trying to follow the rules. There is also penalties included within the provincial legislation of $100,000. The province has already strengthened the enforcements through bill 97 under the residential tendency act including penalties for bad faith evictions. Adding another layer of municipal penalties does not fill the gap. It duplicates enforcements and risk discouraging responsible housing providers from undertaking renovations at all creating slum situations. When renovations don't happen, tenants remain in aging units and housing quality declines. Another issue is fairness. This bylaw exemption government and public funded housing providers including municipal and regional housing. That means private housing providers are being singled out as an additional regulation even though all tenants deserve the same level of protection. If if the concern is a tenant safety, the approach should be consistent. We all have to This creates a new administrative framework, licensing, inspection, enforcement, appeals, compiance. That's ongoing staff and oversight funded by the taxpayers. Kitchener would be paying for the program that's largely due to protections already in place. I think council should be cautious about implementing policies that should helpful sounds helpful but but may not be actually improve the outcomes. When the layer regulations without addressing the root cause, we risk creating cost effectively. The bylaw doesn't target bad actors. It adds steps, responsible ones. I don't increase housing and makes renovations harder. Thank you for your time. Thank you for presentation, Miss Andre. There are a couple questions beginning with councelor Deno. Thank you, Chair Davey, and thank you Kayla for come coming in tonight for delegating. So, how do you protect against bad faith uh evictions? I believe we have to put our trust into the province and the landlord and tenant board and understand that they go through extensive hiring when they hire their adjudicators and they do also go through a review process as well as there is a situation where a tenant is feeling that it is a bad faith factor. the tenant does have the option to go to the landlord intent up to two years after they have vacated and then it would go through a review process or even a stay process even after they were evicted through the hearing. So what we're seeing now is just that we're seeing that the province understood that and that's why they created bill 97. If I if I'm correct, not all of bill 97 was enacted though. Um I would like to say a part of it is that you actually Google about a with a bad faith eviction and it was showed that she was fined $100,000. Okay. Um so you me you referenced the amount of of um N13 appeals that are at the LTB. Do you have an idea or does your organization have an idea of how many N13s um aren't challenged due to lack of information, lack of education, unscrupulous landlords? I think this is where we have to get an FOI from the province. But I can tell you right now, it's not about a lack of education. Tenants are fully aware of their rights. Everything is listed. Has that I I would encourage every city council to look at an application and look at the wording. I do know that wording may get a little more education to both parties, the landlords and the tenants, including how hefty the fines are for individuals who are to do any type of bad faith ev for personal use and or for renovations and we're talking like up to $100,000 for an individual. It's up to 500,000 for a corporation. So, um since you mentioned that I have some stats between January 1st, 2020 and September 30th, 2023. Now, a few years ago, there was 13 fines for bad faith evictions. the most fines were less than $3,000 and there's only two as high as $10,000. So the argument that while there are certain there are extreme penalties uh for these bad faith actors, this would actually show to the contrary that yeah, while the the legislation is there, the paperwork or the information is there, the law is there, um the province is not adhering to their own policies and they're very very minimal. So, um, my my point would be there's not much of a turn for for bad faith actors because it's a slap on the wrist, um, compared to the the the people who are potentially homeless. So, thank you very much. Did you say that was 13 13 fines to landlords for bad faith evictions between January 1st, 2020 as September 30th, 2023 at the Ontario landlord and tenant boards LTB. Lowest most fines were less than 3,000 only two as high as 10,000. And do you have only four have been paid? Now do you have do you have the actual order of that entire case or you that there was 13 bad faith there was fines. I I'll stick with my original comment. Yeah, we're getting a little off track. Uh that's concludes uh council no's questions and now councelor Chapman has some questions for you as well. Miss Andre. Yeah, I just wondered uh are you a landlord? I am. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Miss Andre. Those those are all the questions. Thanks taking the time today. Appreciate it. Uh, up next we have from Acorn we have Ken Bogool and Jackie Wells. Welcome. All right. Good evening. Before we begin, can we confirm our time, please? We were told that we would have 10 minutes. Uh checking here. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. You're good for 10 minutes. All right. Uh good evening, mayor and council. Uh I just want to say that finally we're here. As the chair of Waterl Region Acorn, I commend the mayor, council, and staff for carrying us to a historic evening. Tenants across Kitchener may be able to sleep easier at night with the knowledge that their safety, dignity, and rights may be acknowledged and upheld by the actions of their representatives at city hall. While some will inevitably oppose a renovation bylaw, we thank the councilors who've made tonight a reality. Our message tonight is simple and it's clear. We want Kitchener to have a renovation bylaw that measures up to the gold standard set by Hamilton and Toronto. After all these years of pushing council towards this moment, there is actually no reason why we should ask for or expect anything less. If there is any good that has come from the delays that we've had to contend with in Kitchener, it is this. We can learn from other cities that have already enacted their own renovation bylaws. Hamilton city staff actually presented a status update of their renovation license and relocation bylaw last Tuesday on March the 24th, 2026. The data in the Hamilton report is clear. The renoviction bylaw has been extremely effective at reducing renovations during its first year of enactment. Based on data that staff in Hamilton obtained from the LTB, the number of M13 cases that were issued in Hamilton in 2025, coinciding with the first year the the bylaw was in place, have reduced by an average of 75% when taking an average of all the years between 2020 and 2024. The number of N12s, evictions for the purposes of a landlord's own use, have not increased as a result of N13s being issued. In fact, they've decreased. This may be in partly explained by the fact that large corporate landlords cannot issue N12s to tenants for the purposes of own use. In one case that made it to the LTB, both the landlord's legal representative and the tenants's legal representative referenced the landlord's failure to comply with Hamilton's renovation bylaw during their LTB hearing. The LTB did not dismiss these references and ultimately the landlord's N13 application was not granted by the landlord and tenant board. Again, this is in the Hamilton staff report review that they just released last week. Because of these exceedingly positive results, Hamilton staff recommended amendments to the renovation bylaw in order to include requiring the landlord to cover moving costs for the tenant following Toronto's example. So, they've increased tenant compensations. They have not removed the tenant compensations that already existed. The conclusions that we can draw from this report are that number one, including tenant compensation is the gold standard for an effective renovation bylaw. Cities that have included this compensation in the form of rent gap payments and moving costs have not removed these, but rather they've opted to add more when reviewing the effectiveness of their bylaw. Cities who've already implemented a renovation bylaw recognize that the aim of the bylaw was to eliminate or at least substantially reduce N13 issuances for the purpose of renoviction or renovation. Just to clarify, N13s are also issued for demo eviction. Um, so the point that the point being that since these have been substantially reduced by the renovation bylaw, the the staff use this as a measure of the bylaw's success, not as a reason to not have the bylaw. Precedent has been formally established that the landlord and tenant board will not dismiss references to a municipal renovation bylaw even though the bylaw falls outside of its jurisdiction. And number four, some N13s are issued as I already said for for demoviction and not a renoviction. Therefore, a rental replacement bylaw, which Kitner already has, and a rent eviction bylaw go hand in hand to protect tenants against unnecessary and bad faith evictions. So, with these results in mind, there is no reason to hedge against a wholesome and robust rent eviction bylaw in Kitchener. Kitcher tenants pay property taxes to the city included as part of their rent, and we are entitled to the benefits of paying those taxes. Elected city councilors have a responsibility and a job to look to the needs of their constituents and stand up for municipal autonomy. We acknowledge that the provincial government has frustrated the actions of this council recently after the council voted to pass inclusionary zoning. However, this is not a reason to meekly acquely acquies to a premiere that does not respect municipal democracy. We cannot build our way out of the affordable crisis especially in water region where the water shortage will severely impair any new housing development for the foreseeable future. And lastly, keep in mind that your colleagues in water almost unanimously passed their renovation bylaw just two month two months ago. They voted to include tenant compensation in the form of rent gap payments and moving costs in their bylaw and it will take effect in Jan July 2026. Our demand is simple. include tenant compensation, specifically requiring the landlord to cover moving costs and rent gap payments to the tenant for the complete duration of the renovation period. And we would like council to implement the law as of June 1st, 2026 as recommended by the optimist consultation report or at the very latest by fall 2026 so that this sitting mayor and council sees that this work is completed before municipal elections take place. In closing, we assure you that ACORN has and will continue to pressure our provincial government to do their job as well. ACORN takes direct action at all levels of government to demand change on issues affecting low and moderate income Canadians. Our record shows this. Recently in ACORN, ACORN members uh pardon me, recently in Ontario, ACORN members successfully lobbyed the Ford government to remove the introduction of fixedterm leases from Bill 60 before it passed. We can be useful allies to achieve the change we all need and want from our provincial government. We are here to stay in the waterl region and we can work with mayor and council on matters that concern us all. Thank you. Thank you county for your presentation. There is a question from councelor Chapman. Um yeah um Jackie I just wonder if you could clarify the so the Hamilton um compensation package was not part of their original bylaw and then they or it was part but then when they did their status update and did the review of the year they increased it or was it never on the was it? Yeah, just to clarify, so Hamilton, as you know, was the first city in Ontario to pass this bylaw, and they did include rent gap payments or alternative accommodations for tenants during the duration of the renovation. So, that was already in their original bylaw, but just last week, they submitted the staff submitted their recommendations to council to amend the bylaw to add protections, including moving costs, which is what Toronto has. Toronto already had both like rent gap payments um and moving costs covered by the landlord in their original original bylaw which they passed last year. And so Hamilton just wanted to catch up with Toronto and added that as a secondary measure as well. And in their report did they make any reference to legal challenges that they had had um over the course of the year? No, there's no they didn't mention legal challenges at all. The only thing that they mentioned was the one case that did go to the LTB. Um, and the fact that I'm not sure of the specific context, but in their summary, it just said that both the landlord's uh legal representative and the tenants's legal representative at some point during the hearing referenced that the landlord did not follow Hamilton's bylaw and the LTB um did not dismiss that as a as a point. And I am not sure of the specific reason why the N13 was not approved, but it wasn't approved. Okay. Um, just one last question. Um, I know a question was asked of staff about the number of N13s that they're aware of. Do you can you give us an an idea of how many tenants contact you that have received N13s and you know about what that looks like? It would be hard to count because we usually get like one or two people coming from a building and they might represent, you know, 10 people, 30 people, 50 people. So, as far as like actual specific numbers, I don't have those offhand, but um it's more than I forget what number you had asked about, but it's more than what was in Hamilton's report of N13 issuances. And yeah, just to clarify, so I'm just going to clarify this point because I had to think about it myself, but as I said before, N13s are issued for demo evictions and renovations. So we have a rental replacement bylaw here, but we don't have a renovation bylaw. So Hamilton has both. And um those ones that went to the LTB um some of them may have been um I'm not sure if they were all de renovictions or if some of them were demo evictions. But in the end uh Hamilton staff issued um one application approval out of the multiple that they received it. Only one made it to the very end because some were withdrawn, some were canceled, some were exempt and then they haven't had to issue any fines. Okay. Thank you. Okay, thank you so much for your presentation. That concludes all the questions. Uh, next delegate is Helen Shiri. Good evening. Good evening, chair, mayor, and council. I'm here to oppose the proposed renovation bylaw. I'm speaking both as a landlord for over a decade in Kitchener, as a fellow city councelor from Cambridge, and as a Kitchener taxpayer. One of the reasons I've chosen to be a landlord in Kitchener is because you have not made it difficult to be a landlord. Kitchener has been a great place for to be a landlord so far. And I would like to believe all of you have gone, excuse me, through the provincial landlord and tenant board website that includes the residential tenency act thoroughly before even considering a bylaw. And I also wonder how many members here passing this bylaw have ever been attempted. The pro the province already enforces clear rules to the landlord and tenant board to prevent bad faith evictions. A landlord cannot evict for renov renovations without their approval. The system already provides oversight, transparency, and clear information for tenants and lands. So, the residential tenency act section 57 talks about bad faith eviction and also the orders, fines, and compensation. It talks about the landlord paying uh a former tenant all or or any portion of the increased rent that the former tenant will incur one year for a one-year period after vacating the rental unit. It also talks in the order about paying out of pocket moving expenses, storage, and other like expenses. and also a $10,000 fine for non-compliance. Your non-compliance fee is 25,000. So, what happens if the landlord and tenant board says you can renovate, but you decide you can't? The staff also states the purpose of the bylaw is to enhance transparency and provide oversight. What part of the information in the landlord and tenant board site does not already do that. It gives detailed, easyto- read information and clearly defines the rights of both tenants and landlords. The tenant association stated, I read, "If a city fails to act, more families will lose their homes." That's not accurate. Strong protections already exist and statements like that are nothing more than fearongering. The bylaw doesn't fix the gap. It duplicates an existing one and adds more costs and red tape. Landlords already go through many hoops at the provincial level and now the city is adding more. I wonder how much the city already paid and I'm wondering as now a taxpayer for the consultant extra staff time to prepare the proposed bylaw and now the recommendation is to hire more staff at a significant cost and for what a process that already exists at a provincial level as a taxpayer I find that a waste of my money at a time when people and landlords are struggling this looks less like a good polic and more like a tax scrap on 99.9% of landlords. I don't see stronger rules on bad tenants and there are many that have bankrupted some landlords. We say we want more housing and specifically more rentals, but adding barriers like this discourages the very people you are trying to attract. Even the report says renovation applications are very low. As a fellow counselor, it frustrates me when I see these kinds of bylaws that are overstepping. We have so much in our jurisdiction to deal with already. We can barely oversee and manage manage. So why are we adding more? So, I would strongly urge council not to support this bylaw and add more burdens on landlords which will increase the tenants rent, but instead focus on solutions that actually increase housing, reduce taxes and fees and not ones that add costs and rules and drive away the rental market. Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. There's uh one person with questions, councelor Deno. Thank you, uh, Chair Dave, and thank you, councelor, for coming in tonight. So, you're right, we do have legislation at the provincial level. Um, but then why do bad renovictions, unfaithful renovations still occur if we have the legislation already there? Because there's bad people everywhere, bad people on the street, bad people in churches, bad people everywhere. You can't you can't regulate bad people. Um and and right now if if something happens and you have a bad landlord, go and call the landlord and tenant board. Just like if somebody breaks in your house, call the police. There is a body there to oversee that. Right. Okay. Um just a quick note, there's 53,000 in cases in a backlog. So it's not as easy as as you make it sound. Um, and obviously the people who we've heard from and that are in the gallery would disagree with your assessment as to what the legislation actually does and what it doesn't do. So, thanks for coming in tonight. I I agree with that. Um, but you know what? It's it's just as bad for landlords. We have to wait, too. I've had really bad tenants. I'm great tenants now, but we're all in the same process. So, what do we do? We dele we we talk to the province. That's their job. Thanks. There are no further questions. Thank you for your presentation. Councelor, just a reminder, read this questions. Okay, we save our comments at the end. Thank you. Uh the next delegation is Linda Voss. Mayor, good evening. Nice to see you all. Thank you for having us. Um, I just wanted to make com kind of a comment on a couple things that we heard. Um, I just looked up that $100,000 fine and it was for a guy in Hamilton and it was for four units and none of those people were able to go back to their houses. So, um, that one was a little bit off-putting. Um, now saying and and for instance, our N13s, you were asking about renovations earlier, uh, Mr. Schneider about our N13s. I'm from the 250 Frederick um street location. Uh we have 108 units and 62 of those units were issued and 13. So that by one one goes well beyond that 33 number that uh one of the last delegates stated. So of those 108 we had 62 issued. They were all for lower renter lower paying rent. we who have been tenants for 10 to 40 years at this building. Uh they didn't do anything wrong. They just lived there and all of a sudden we were being kicked out of our houses. So that started in 2023. It took over a year and a half to be seen by by um the LTB. And during that time we had to deal with um pressure from the company that was trying to kick us out. of those 62 units, uh, 31 people left. 31 were kicked out of their houses um, just for fear alone. And of those 31 that remained, this was a mixture of lowincome individuals. So this was these were senior citizens on geared income, disabled individuals, newcomers to Canada, and young families. So, those 31 uh those 31 um defendants all teamed together and we had to go to legal aid to get uh help because those people couldn't afford it. We couldn't afford the legal fees that were necessary to fight for our rights. Okay. So, this guy that took took over our building, sorry, I'm so emotional right now. The guy that purchased our building, Michael Klein, he has unlimited coffers to to draw from. So because we don't we had to go to legal aid to advocate to to get help. So we we got after some some time we were approved and we had a wonderful lawyer and a legal team that uh were super thorough and they competently fought for our rights and they won. And a month and a half later Michael Klein issued an appeal. So now we also didn't have the money for the appeal. So we had to go back to legal aid. And because it was a new case, it had to be approved again. And so now that 31 times two for um all this legal aid help that could have gone to other people, you know, and now how long is this appeal going to last? Uh first of all, the lawyers on the other team are drawing it out and they refuse to uh to have contact with our legal team. They don't answer phones. They don't answer emails. They're just drying it out as long as possible. My building goes into dis disrepair. I have I have submitted so many times related to my stove and my my um the toilet over the last uh for plumbing needs and for electrical needs over the last year. But that's not going to be answered because they're waiting to kick me out because I've lived there for 13 years and my rent has only gone up $170 in that time. So $170 per month. So sorry, I'm upset that we have to get that help from legal aid. I'm upset that that money is going to us and not to other people that could use it. It really frustrates me. And when the legal when the LTB like you said 53,000 or 53,000 cases are in waiting and we're 31 of those and that's just going to keep on happening. And how many of those 53 cases are just these super corporations that are coming back for appeal after appeal after appeal regarding the costs? Okay, I think that uh first of all, super landlords, these corporations, these costs that are going to be related to them are going to be tax write-offs for them. We know this. If you have a corporation, that's my business. I do taxes. I see I see um I see uh sorry, property taxes all the time. I know they go up every year. Everybody whines about property taxes going up every year. But I honestly don't think that if you ask every single person that lives in this city, the over 300,000 people, if they had to pay an extra couple bucks per month just for the security of their neighbors, for their kids, for them to have a place to live, I think that they would. And I think that these corporations are not who we elected. We elected you. And we they don't have the morals that we know that you have. So I really hope that you add to this bylaw. Encourage um disc to discourage these bad faith renovations because they are continuing. It's not just the N13. It's also these appeals. It's also the the burden and the the damage to our Yeah, thank you for your presentation. Actually, there are a couple questions, so hang out for a sec. Uh beginning with councelor Johnson. Thank you, Chair Davey and Linda. Thank you so much for coming in tonight. Uh great presentation. I appreciated your stats and I also appreciate your experience and how much I know that you and a number of you have worked so hard on behalf of the department uh there and have been working on this for a very long time. That's where my question comes from. Um, you know, we've heard from some delegates tonight making it sound like it's very easy to go to the um uh to you know the uh um the landlord tenant board, right? Can you can you talk about that experience? Is it easy for people who you know are already experiencing tough times to go and delegate to well have to take time off work etc. Oh, I appreciate that. Every time I've had to see the landlord tener board, I've had to take off. Everybody that's a participant has to take off so that they can be seen and heard. So, yes, that is an issue. Also, I have a lot of newcomers that live in my building and although the LA tenant board offers language uh translators, it's legal jargon and it's not always something that somebody can understand, especially if you're coming from another country. You know, we promote multiculturalism in this city, but a big portion of the people that are being affected by these N13s and these bad faith uh landlords are newcomers that are not familiar with the laws and might not even feel comfortable going to the LTB or asking their counselors about that because perhaps in where they're from is not something that's not something that they would do, right? So I what um I I even know that my my my fellow neighbors have uh gone and got counseling services where they've come to our building where cityrun counselor like um city provided counseling services have been provided to my fellow tenants because of what is effectively just just been such a burden on our lives for over two years and it's still continuing. I'm still in the middle of it. I still don't know if I can still stay in my place. That's that's a problem for me. And I I don't like the idea that people can so easily be thrown out of their homes. And I understand that a landlord um takes the takes the burden of uh any possible business risks when you have like you are going into a business. There are risks associated with business. So if you possibly get a bad land, a bad tenant, that is one of the risks. if you possibly have renovations. That is one of the risks, but those are all things that corporations can use as write offs on their taxes. They don't have to they and yeah, any I'm sorry. I I I it's just a a real burden on us all. I appreciate your honesty and for sharing your experience and the experience of others and for what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you, councelor. Yeah. Thank you, Chair Davey. There's no doubt your situation is one of definitely hardship and you know something that you've gone and many of your ten of the other tenants have gone through. Um it's rather scrupulous. So there's no doubt that there is those types of individuals out there. So I I guess my my question would be with regards to the last time you were here um you were concerned that the N13 would be you would be evicted because the N13 was valid on the landlord's part. So I guess my question is if you went through that process with uh through that that tri tribunal. Mhm. It would have been obvious at that time that that m Mr. whoever, I don't want to mention his name, had no evidence or no proof to back him back his case. I can tell you everything that happened. I was there for every minute of it. Um they argued quite a bit. They said that it was required um that our stacks basically the renovation has to do with our kitchens and that the stacks in our building have to be replaced da da it's about plumbing. Now uh what they they came at us with different engineers um uh you know stories about oh that this has to be done this has to be done yes people have to leave but they're asking us to leave for 7 to 10 months for some pipes in our kitchen and so what our lawyer came back and said well you know what these pipes were actually replaced uh and they and these pipes last for 14 years and she came back with every single date that they were replaced for every part of our building because the last owner of our building kept up with the cost of our building. Our our building was in great repair until it was taken over and then all of a sudden we have to replace all the plumbing in 62 out of 108 units which are not connected. Why wouldn't it be the all 108 units? Why only the tenants that were paying under a certain amount? I I don't disagree with No, I agree. I don't I don't agree with the tactics that this this individual did, but I guess my the concern that I have is it went through the process and now it's now going through an appeal. And the chances of winning an appeal are are are still relatively minimal because they don't have the they don't have the evidence. That's why they lost in the first place. So I guess and the I guess my other question too is those other tenants that left, they didn't need to leave. They left they left on they left on their own. I know, but they left on their own, right? Like they Okay, so of those 31 tenants, sorry, I don't mean to stop you, but those those 31 tenants, several of them moved to other units in our building at twice the cost because of fear that they would lose their homes. Some of them were put into their their kids' houses. Now they're in a an a granny suite in their kids' houses. That's putting pressure on a family that didn't have to have that person living there that was already paying for their home, the home that they were living for. I I get I get what they did what they did, but they didn't have to do that. If someone told you to do something, just don't go and just do it. Yeah, I know. But if you're scared and you're in a pressure-filled situation and it's something that is so important to you, this is your home. This is where you sleep every night. This is where you should feel safe and secure. If somebody is coming at that and you have this one possible chance to get out of it, okay, I will find that extra $1,000 a month out of my limited income and go into my savings and I'll pay for this every month. That's what those people had to do, you know, and and and it wasn't fair. It it it's just it it sounds like it's only guy that's doing this. It's not only one guy that's doing this. And it's not that he didn't have evidence. He came at our land our our lawyer with so much so many uh bits of evidence, but then she had to argue each and every one of those over No doubt. No doubt. And I'm not trying to make light of your situation at all. I'm just trying to look at it the perspective that how I have to balance it all out on the on the city level. And from what I learned from some of the delegates here, they got fined and they didn't even pay. So if what's going to stop a landlord today if we go through this bylaw and says I'm not going to pay either. It doesn't change. Well, they have to pay they would have to pay in the only one that has the power to to change it. They would have to pay the initial licensing cost, right? And then there wouldn't be any argument as to what kind of engineer is deciding whether or not if if this is a qualified renovation or not because it would be an engineer that you approve the paperwork of. So that that's already eliminating a big chunk of a big issue right there. And then if they do get fined and they don't pay it, then that's a you guys have to make it happen, right? Like that's that's what we're asking you to make happen. And I just I just I feel like if you move forward with this, if you make it difficult for these landlords to reenict people, it's going to it's going to reduce these amount of cases that are being fought by the LTB. It's going to reduce these appeals. It's going to make it easier for smaller landlords that are doing valid renovations or valid renovations to their household to their their their business um investment that it makes it easier for them. Yes, the LTB and the res and the tenency act um have these rules in place and yes, the N13 says all these things that you're supposed to follow, but all the a lot of those rules were not followed by the owner of my building. And that's where Now, again, I I'm not going to I don't want to debate you off, but this has been going on for quite a while. I'm sorry. We got a lot of folks we So, anyways, from what my understanding, this individual is not going to honor any rules no matter what we put in place. So, it's basically putting in something in place that's not going to be enforceable. Yeah. Is there in fairness, do you have to again remind committee like again we're asking questions. We had to save our comments for the end. Okay. There's a lot of folks to go through. Uh and speaking of timing, actually our next two delegations are virtual. We'll get to them and then we'll take like a two-minut stretch break. All right. Uh so the next delegation, sorry, thank you Miss Boss so much for taking the time today. I appreciate it. Um the next uh the next delegation is Sandy Azabido who is appearing virtually. Good evening. Um I don't know if you can hear me. Can you hear me? I can. Miss Azabito. Go ahead. We can't see you, but we can hear you. Oh, I know. Oh, well, I guess not. Sorry. Camera is not is not working. You're reminding me of TV when I was young after midnight, but that's okay. All right. So, I'll reduce that. Um, good evening everyone. I am not a landlord. I am not a tenant but I do deal with a number of issues that the public tenants and landlords go through with this situation. And now the new bylaws or the new legislation that came was reinforced in 20124 has reduced the numbers that one of the council um councilman there referred to the councilman with a blue shirt. I'm sorry I cannot see him because at this moment for some reason I cannot see the screen. So anyway, um the the information that I have is in relation to the legislation. So what I've requested when I put my my request to speak was for numbers in terms of um of um in terms of statistics in relation to this new bylaw initiative. It sounds to me that uh the numbers have not been provided or at least maybe not as research as it could have been in terms of the costs of this issuing. Um a new creating a new division of employees and resources to be paid out by the city when there are very likely already in use within the city. Uh from enforcement members, employees from the planning inspections that can be put to towards as well this situation instead of creating a new division, a new department for for just this renovation renovation um bylaws. Oh, I know that I've heard uh comments. I thought we had five minutes. There's no way that I've already gone to my five minutes, but anyway, no, you you have about two minutes left. Uh I know there has been comments in comparison with the Hamilton. There's quite a difference in the structure uh or infrastructure of Hamilton buildings and most of Kitchener. um not as well looked after, not as well um rounded out by the municipality of Kitchener. Uh and therefore the Hamilton is has suffered much harder results for their constituents and for their for their public. But anyway, as far as this as this bylaw, um it seems that it is going to the input or way more on the taxpayer whichever that will be in order to support this new division when the resources are already in place uh with the departments already existing in in uh in Kitchener. Uh as far as the landlord and tenants board uh there has been an additional um million dollar added to additional additional adjudicators at the landlord and tenant board in 2024 and new legislation has been um updated from the province regarding the same issues renovations and landlords that have not been meeting their obligations. Now the public and the tenants do have do have supports that are uh more available than can I still talk? Your time has expired. If you want if you want to wrap up your thoughts, Miss Aid, I appreciate it. Okay. There are available to way more tenants than to landlords. And remember, I'm not either. Um so that's exactly why the legal aid is there. Tenants should not feel afraid or upset for having to lose it. exactly why we pay the taxes that we pay everybody. So those that who cannot afford it can use it. Um in terms of the contacting the the board, I have been uh pleasantly surprised from the reduction of 45 minutes waiting on the phone to uh seven minutes in uh there's also uh oh I remember miss plumbing issues. I do understand those points from the from the aspect of the tenant and I also know that uh the city has their housing um if I'm not if I'm not mistaken has the housing um department that can send inspectors and speed up those issues so that when they go to the board they can be updated. There are urgent requests that can be made by the tenants to the board and they have been uh setting up meetings in five weeks. So there's nothing the delays is they're not there anymore and I think that is rules are followed by the landlord. Yes. When the landlord Okay. Midito, I've g I've given you a fair bit of extra time. So I would thank you much. Yeah. Thank you much for your presentation and there aren't any questions. Okay. Oh, I Uh the next delegation we have before we take a quick break is uh Megan Walker from the Social Development Center. She's also virtual. Miss Walker, if you're there, we we can't see you or hear you. Oh, I apologize. Oh, there you go. Can you hear me now? We we can hear you now. Go ahead. Yeah. Great. So, good afternoon, council members. I'm Walker. organizing the organizing last years including 250 Frederick Street and 1419 Street. We've had some really big wins and that is due almost solely to the intensive organizing on the ground tenants. This is work that's emotionally draining and has taken up a great deal of the lives of tenants. I support both myself and my team at eviction prevention see on a daily basis the harm bad community and the ways in which the RT fails to intervene at the point the first point of harm which is when the N3 issued. We also have numbers of the attempted evictions, ones that we prevent, ones that go through and our regular reporting to the region because the region does fund our program and we're happy to send those to you to any elected official if requests. I can personally attest that the tenants at Frederick Street were tricked into signing new leases. These are often elderly people or just adding or pressure of the situation itself. I would like for us to acknledge the power here for a moment. They can afford to pay dues to lobbyists and they can afford to pay less to represent the land tenant board. Most tenants have community legal aid and my team and we are mighty but we're small. I would also like to acknowledge and echo the sentiment here from my fellow tenants and organizers this evening especially those who've gone through renovations uh convictions in general but also the evictions and I know this doesn't happen often but I would actually really like to commend council's decision last summer and council tonight to direct staff to work on this report and I am generally in support of this bylaw these measures include less dedicated to helping tenants eviction and landlords and nature landlord unfortunately service gap as we do this at eviction prevention this is a great service to uh ensuring it's also ensuring landlords have the appropriate assessment for renovations by qualified professional which is not always true um making sure that tenants are given materials that clearly explain to them what the process of moving for renovations like what their options are moving attorney and dedicated staff to oversee and ensure tenants right to protect it. Again, the LT does not monitor a vacated unit and the only recourse has to get back into the unit after renovation if the landlord is acting process. It takes at best about 18 months right now and it's rare. It is rare that the LTB hands a penalty to landlords. This is true, but we could actually enforce and deter landlords on the ground here by having this bylaw and it wouldn't necessarily have to on the landlords right now the it's tenant initiated where kitchen sorry my child um so it would tie the process to the peritting process which makes landlord accountable to go through the work permit at street permit did not have the right done um a per unit application fee that will evictions by landlords especially very landlords right now. Um these are not the ones that evictions. Uh corporate landlords evictions as mass and again have data that supported about 60 evictions over the last year. Landlords or housing providers working in should have no problems. formalizing a process and procedures that landlords should already be following with additional oversight rather than putting on the tenant with landlords from exploiting tenants affordable housing. This makes inroads to ensure that process it's not everything but it is part of it bylaw process which I think is first and while I understand that this is admitted by I would be remiss if I didn't mention my disappointment this bylaw didn't account for the financial hardship when moving even temporarily and didn't include any additional compensation as other delegations have stated compensation is the gold standard for renovation by no reason we shouldn't have as it also stands under the right landlords are only obligated to pay three months to a tenant current rate of rent as I've explained before many of these tenants and without adequate compensation a tenant being out of affordable housing would not be able to find temporary and will end up on the street they Compensation is a measure against homelessness which is a crisis in the region spurred on by evictions. Thank you. Thank you Miss Walker for your presentation. Uh there do not appear to be any questions. Thank you so much. Okay everyone, it is uh 8:30. We'll take a five minute recess. We'll start in five minutes short 8:35. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you everyone. Uh we do have I believe nine delegations left. Our next delegation is uh Magdal sorry Magdalena Milos. Good evening. Good evening. Um my name is Magdalina Milos and I live at the York a heritage building just a few blocks from here that houses about 40 families. I was very happy to learn that the staff recommendation before you tonight is to approve a rental renovation licensing bylaw for the city of Kitner. This is an important step towards putting into place Kitchener's commitment to housing affordability. As drafted, the bylaw requires landlords and operators of rental units who have served an N13 notice to apply for a rental renovation license within 7 days. I'd like to address the issue of renovations without an N13, which the Optimus SB consultant report documents as a problem by sharing our experience over the last year. The York is known locally as Kitchener's first skyscraper, and many people recognize it immediately when I say where I live. Beyond its iconic status, it's home to a diverse community of residents of all ages and backgrounds. Last summer, 12 households, including my partner and me, were told by the property owner that we would need to leave our homes for six weeks due to a plumbing project to replace bathroom stacks. We understood the repairs were necessary. The building is nearly a century old, and residents have been dealing with sewage leaks, ceiling leaks, and backed up sinks for many years. But being told to vacate with less than two weeks notice raised serious concerns. The property owner described the work as urgent. Yet Kitner's own bylaw enforcement unit had ordered these repairs seven months earlier. So why were we suddenly being told to move on such short notice? There had been plenty of time to give the four months notice required by an N13, which as we've heard repeatedly also gives tenants the rights of first refusal to return following renovations. We were given none of those protections nor any guarantee that we could return after six weeks. York residents connected with Meg Walker who we heard from a short while ago. Um and effect she's an eviction eviction prevention worker um at the social development center waterl region. With her help we challenge the attempt to displace us. In doing so we learned that although the work had been ordered by the city, no building permit had been issued nor had a build building permit application even been submitted days before the work was due to start. We also learned that these plumbing repairs could in fact be completed without forcing anyone out. Most of us were able to stay, and I cannot overstate how much this mattered in the context of a housing affordability crisis. In the end, this six-week project dragged on for more than four months. Had we moved out voluntarily, I believe many of us would not be living at the York today. It's important to note that the city of Kitchener had both mandated these repairs and eventually issued the building permit for the work. Any so-called renovation, in fact, requires a building permit. As we've heard, the N13 form itself states that a landlord may end a teny only if the work requires a permit and the unit must be vacant to do the work. Since the city issues these permits, this is the logical stage to check whether tenants are being asked to leave in the absence of an N13. Given the city's oversight of property standards and building permits, it is simply responsible governance to consider the human impacts of these orders and minimize harm. A basic check at the permitting stage could prevent people from losing their homes unnecessarily, or as we've also heard from many others tonight, from fighting months or years long battles that cause stress, instability, and loss productivity. I want to emphasize again that York residents were facing an informal renovation as no N13 had been filed. A strong rental renovation licensing bylaw must account for this reality. That means verifying whether tenants have been asked to move, not just whether an N13 exists, and following up directly with tenants when needed. In a postconsequence world, it means having meaningful safeguards and enforcement to address the actions of those who would choose to disregard the rules. and it means considering whether the bylaw, as well intended as it is, could have unintended consequences such as increasing the number of informal renovations. To conclude, I urge you to adopt a strong framework that ensures Kitchener residents are not needlessly displaced through renovations, formal or informal. As housing becomes increasingly financialized, we must prioritize people over profits and make sure that essential maintenance is not used as a pretext to remove long-term tenants. Renting is how more and more Canadians secure housing. That is a reality of what is happening and those families deserve stability and dignity. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Miller. There's a couple questions beginning with councelor Chapman. Go ahead. Yeah, thank you. Um, hi Ma. I just wondered if you could tell us if you're if the residents of the building currently are are good to stay or or you're still feeling threatened by the the landlord and property standards issues that you've been facing. Yeah. So, we've been um we've been in in contact uh much much more with property standards than we would like simply simply to get um to avoid getting to the point where the building becomes so uh unmaintenance shall we say that we're somehow forced to leave. So despite the fact that we learned our rights, we refused to leave. Um this this took a lot of coordinating um you know many more families were involved than just the 12 units who were directly being displaced because we know that if you know this is happening with a quarter of the units then it could happen with the rest of them. Um, so we I would say I I'm I will speak on on my own behalf. I don't feel settled or safe since this started happening. Um, despite the fact that we did not get an N13 and very few people actually left, there's this sense that there's something going on in the background to try to displace us and, you know, to to Yeah. that the that the building will become uninhabitable and that we'll we'll have to leave. We have to keep on top of um maintenance in terms of rep like reporting maintenance. Um a lot of which goes unressed by the property owner and um I mean if you know if you look at how much time city of Kitchener bylaw property standards bylaw officers spend at this building I'm sure you would all be shocked. Um, so we, you know, all of this like it's it's all interrelated. It's not, it's not to say that to, okay, tomorrow we're going to get an N13, but it's just this sense that it's not um, you know, the the stable home that it was five five years ago. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Johnson. Thanks, Chair Davey and Melina. Thanks so much for coming in. And um you also talk about the lived experience, the the stress of it sounds like almost waiting for the other shoe to drop that you said, you know, something's going on in the background and you're just kind of uh waiting for it. So, um thanks for thanks for talking about that. And you you said uh that that's the same way that everybody in the building feels as well. I mean I can't speak for on you know on behalf of everyone else but there's a strong tenant community and there you know there is a lot of stress and uncertainty around what's what's happening there's also a lot of community building and information sharing and we've had a lot of support from um from from Meg Walker and her team and so that that's been that's been positive But I think, you know, the I think a lot of people feel similarly or on some spectrum as what I'm describing to you tonight. Yeah, I I appreciate you sharing that. Um it's uh it's not always easy to do and I really I really do appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I just again I just wanted to clarify. So you were not you actually not issued an N13 then, right? We were not issued an N13. We were given a letter from the landlord that said we would that within two weeks plumbing work would start and we would have to move out. And once we started questioning this some residents got the response ultimately that well you don't have to leave but you will have no functioning washroom for six weeks so do what you like. Understood. Yeah. So that's my concern is I don't think this current bylaw would capture that or know that but as you noted there city was involved. So I'm going to ask the question of staff. It's a notable point if there is significant renovations like notification of your rights is the big part of this right. So if you did receive something from the city or that would set you on that path. But anyway I just wanted to let you know I noted of that. Um and thank you so much for taking time today. Appreciate it. Thank you. Uh our next delegation is Joyce Domingo. I'm Joyce Tamingo and uh I live in the same building as Magda and I live at the York. The York is a old heritage building that we all love because it's a beautiful building and our landlord is systematically neglecting it. And it's a heritage building just on the Um, I've been there 15 years and I can't tell you how many scare tactics this landlord has used on us. It's it gets to wear you down. You get tired. You feel fearful. You don't you don't know when the next what when the other shoe is going to drop. And you know, Bill on the third floor, he's been there 30 years. Coral who lives right next door to me, she's a community builder. She's being nom if she's been nominate nominated into the Waterl region for community builder. We're being a renter these days is hell. And I appeal to you, mayor. Use your mayor powers that that the premier gave you. We need a stronger standard for this. We need the Toronto gold standard where there is a bridge where if we do have to leave, it's an old building. Inevitably, we might have to leave, but some of us not be able to come back and and then also you know um the cost differential that's a big big deal for some people in the building. We have immigrant families. We have a person with disability. We have people of different economics and it's just the stress the constant stress of this landlord who actually is right in front of the LTB right now appealing twice in insia, his case, which the LTB ruled against him for lawfully unlawfully locking out his tenants and some of them still two years later have not been able to get back into their units. This landlord was fined over $450,000. He's appealed it twice. He's dragging it through the courts. He is a bad faith player. And how do we prevent these type of evictions from happening? While these people in Sarnia had a a fire in one of the units, they were they were told to leave for a few days. While they were out of their units that this landlord, our landlord, locked out all the tenants, changed the locks on their doors. People were living at their relatives, watching their apartment going up on rental.ca, all renovated. They weren't allowed. Some of them still have not been able to get their keys back and allowed into their units. I fear for the same thing for the York. He's the same guy. He has the same tactics. He has no respect for the law. How do we control people like that? I know there's good landlords and I know that there's also good tenants and we most of the people in our building are very good tenants. We're educated and we love where we live. I've been there 15 years. I'm 70 years old. I love my apartment. I don't want to move, but I'm I'm tired of living with this stress. Also, I can speak for another 12 tenants that there's Bill, Coral, Magda. We have a pretty strong tenant board. I'm lucky for that. And I feel blessed that too that we have Meg Walker. And I feel blessed that we have Miss Chapman here as well. Councelor Chapman, excuse me. And thank you, mayor, for listening to me. Thank you for taking the time to come in. Appreciate. We need more teeth in this bylaw. Oh, actually, just hang on one second. Mayor Ben, I did have a question for you. Not so much a question as just Mr. Domingo, I I I respect your comments around uh strong mayor powers. Um I made it a practice not to use those. Um, and so I just wanted you to to understand that because fundamentally we try to respect the the principles of of local democracy. I do I do appreciate that, mayor. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Our uh next delegation is virtual. Kevin Brittner. Hello Kevin. We can see you but we can't hear you. and still can't hear you. Might have to unmute. Oh, here we go. One second. Try now. Can't hear you yet. No. Hi, Kevin. There is a button to the right of the little head in the middle of the screen. You just need to unmute yourself and you should be able to speak to the room. Sorry, Kevin, we can't hear you. Did you want perhaps we could bump them later into the list and then give one more try. Kevin, try again. No, we can't hear you. Madam clerk, move along and then Okay. Okay. So, we will move to our next uh in person here. Uh Ryan Murdoch. Hello. Um evening. So, I'm here to uh substantially support the passing of the bylaw as recommended, but with a few important amendments that I think have generally been brought up, but I would like to stress and reiterate the importance of them. Uh so, first would be to uh require the landlord to provide temporary accommodations or make rent gap payments. um you're the one being displaced from your home. So you're already right, you're already paying. Uh so then the landlord is the one who's going to fundamentally benefit financially from this. So they should be the ones who are making that investment. They should be the ones shouldering the financial cost. Um you already rented the place. Um right, you didn't rent two places. you rented that place and now they're doing things. So then that's fine. They're allowed to do things too, but you're you're already uh experiencing upheaval, right? Like moving isn't nothing. Um especially I think in the current housing environment, it's definitely more than something. Um and that also speaks to moving cost should also be covered because uh moving again that's upheaval. That's already like personal mental burden. The landlord's the one who gets financial benefits so they can shoulder the financial burden if it's so important they need to evict you or or make you move to renovate, right? Like they can do that. That's their investment in their property. And also, as we've seen, there's usually ways to not have people move out, right? People figure that out all the time. Uh, so they they can do that and this will help motivate them to maybe be just a little bit more creative, put a little more time and effort because maybe they weren't maybe they weren't bad people, but maybe it was just easier. So, we don't need to make everything easy for people, right? We don't need to make everything easy for every landlord like you invested in a business. There's, as people mentioned, risk, rewards, um, and and everything that goes into that. And then also sort of to speak to a little bit about the the funding and stuff like I'm sure you guys will find money because when things are important you guys do find money. Uh so I think you can um and this isn't that much right when it comes to the amount of money that gets spent on other uh line items in that budget where the immediate impact this will make on like just human beings being able to feel safer, more secure in their homes because I would argue that even when you're living in a place where like somebody adds let's say 1% chance you'll get evicted Because like right there's always stuff stuff can happen to our homes. We all know that. So there's always some chance. But would you just voluntarily add even like a 1% chance like every day that somebody could just screw you and your your life has changed forever and you might not even get a new home, right? Like I don't think any of us would accept that deal, right? like a little chance when it's your house can mean everything. Um, and with sort of speaking to that, like where uh I believe uh councelor Chapman mentioned like that $500,000 like maybe that's not what it's for. You guys can figure that out. But also I would argue like this is pretty close to an emergency like is housing not a like talking about priorities? Like I don't know about you, but uh at my work and when I hang out with people like we talk about rent a lot more than we freaking used to. And it's not just because we're like a bit older, right? Like guys I work with have issues and like that's the thing is so many things go undocumented because maybe you have a decent landlord and you don't pay that bad a rent and your landlord's a decent person so they ask you to pay a bit more and you do. Okay, so that was never documented but you paid an above guideline increase and that's going to get added up for the rest of the time you're there. Right? Like rent is stressing us out. It's only going to become probably worse. So, do what you can now. Take some bold steps. Take some bold action and and be like a leader of other municipalities, right? We're always talking about why aren't more Well, because their their councils suck. That's why they're not doing it because they don't care about their tenants as much as you do. Um, so I really appreciate that we've got this far. I really appreciate um those of you who have made things happen. Like we see that and we also see who doesn't do anything, who doesn't care about tenants, who doesn't seem to think it's a priority, who maybe doesn't know how bylaws work. So, right, we see all that. Um, and it's noted and there is an election coming up. Oh, sorry, one last point. It's insane to me that we would stop passing things because an election that everyone knows is going to happen and is scheduled regularly. Like that to me is like we knew this election was coming forever ago and now you're saying we can't add things or or do anything during that period. So I I think that can also get figured out like this needs to happen sooner because it's it's important. So, please do those other things and make it happen like by this summer or September at the latest because the longer we put it off, like it's just going to get worse. And also for the people it's happened to, that's terrible. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Murdo. I do not see any questions. Thank you for uh coming in presenting. And the Oh, I'm gonna look to the clerk. We found Kevin yet? No, another minute. Okay, we'll go before the next one. Uh, the next delegation is Lynn and I'm pronouncing that right? I've been revising as they go today. Sorry. Just make sure you speak into that microphone to your side there. There we go. Thank you. Today, if council does this honor, we'll have one small framework for requiring investors to conduct themselves with minimally enforcable ethics as business owners. To small landlords, I ask you, have you ever had a deep desire to replace the currently safe and fully functional kitchen cabinets in the unit of an existing tenant? Or a deep desire to replace a kitchen floor or rip out a wall between the kitchen and living room? Yeah, I didn't think so. You know, this doesn't make sense. These policies help ethical landlords. If you need to replace plumbing that has exceeded its safe operational lifespan, which the city of Kitchener will know because of the building permits that would have been pulled last time it was done, it will not be a problem because city staff will be on your side to help the tenant understand what's going on and why it's important to their safety and well-being. They can encourage a resident tenant to move expediently by providing reassurance and accountability that you as ethical investors will uphold your obligations under the law. And staff will be beside the unethical investors who are hurting your business prospects by telling them they do not need vacant possession for six to 10 months to replace a plumbing stack. What this bylaw means to you as investors or the management companies acting on behalf of investors is that you can be held accountable for decisions like listing a property for rent when the tenant has filed first right of refusal. It's much harder for anyone to claim lack of awareness of right of first refusal when the city staff has checked that they have the correct paperwork on file and made sure it was done correctly. And this would potentially mean that you can be subject to fines for every day that you have that property listed. And while I have no doubt that these fines will not be maximized even for repeat offenders, I urge Kitchener to make good use of your jurisdiction as a municipality to use financial penalties and enforce repeated and continued non-compliance. And I look forward to situations like where a local property management corporation This is the only one that I know of, but it's not going to be the only one where the unit was listed for rent for five weeks before I personally toured the unit and was offered the ability to rent it. The tenant reports it being up for rent for much longer. So, imagine finding them and then finding them for 35 days plus however much longer. Even if it's a small fine, it starts to eat into their profit margin. Now, the fines don't get tenants their unit back, but it tips the scales if you would enforce the fines, which the province doesn't does. Um, and this will start to occur before the unit is rented out, which will disincentivize the gamble that no fine will come and potentially disincentivize investors from harming our community by even making purchases of buildings in our areas. Because when profit motivated investors aren't buying in our community, property prices come down a little bit and become slightly more attainable for non-market actors. We need non-market housing, not profit driven. Ideally, one of the core things here is that the city will track non-compliance by property owners and management companies and start to correlate this data to hold them accountable accountable and allow for us to access records that we can see this kind of behavior. When consulting on this bylaw, I heard a lot from staff and council about being afraid to give tenants false hope. I always wondered what was really meant by that. Does it mean we shouldn't try? This is important to the social, economic, environmental, and well-being of the city. And I urge people to re to check out a report by the shift called Banks and Canada's housing crisis because they are a part of it. And I know I'm asking you to help resolve that. But we have been fighting this. It was first identified as a need in December 2023. Rental replacement which didn't turn out to be a rent eviction bylaw was June 2024. And I encourage every tenant who has learned to step into the role of an organizer while fearing their own displacement. Don't treat this as over. It's not over. Our government's not coming to save us. You're going to have to stick together. We've been at this for years. We're going to keep going through this. We're going to have to keep changing. We need your help, but we're also going to have to stick together. Thank you, Lynn, for your presentation. There do not appear to be any questions. Thank you. Next, we're going to try and go back to Kevin Rittner. Hello, Kevin. Yeah, we can hear you now. It still says request to speak and my microphone was clicked off. Anyways, I apologize for the confusion. No, no problem at all. I'm gonna chalk up the bad luck to the leaf shirt. That's probably what it is. So, you know what? Sadly, I am going to agree with you. I should be wearing something right now. But anyway, so I wrote down a few things that I just wanted to cover based on all the conversations that have gone on today. First of all, uh I am a broker with Remax. I have been for 14 years. I've been specializing in reconstruction and investment real estate for about decade now and I have a property management company as well that uh works on behalf of landlords obviously but we are the middleman for tenants and Kayla said this earlier it is about being equal and best sides where it's not at all fair but anyways so I feel bad for stories like Barbs can fight what the landlord has done and you should do. So if you have any questions, please reach out. Common misunderstanding that goes on all the time is that landlords are all millionaires. That is incorrect. Landlords, most of them, small ones are like you and I, regular people that have invested their life savings into something that's going to provide them better future instead of a stock market. It is a different investment. Yes, it is a business, but why should anybody be able to uh live in something for free? Different conversation. Bill 60 is the first thing that has been passed in the landlord's favor in the last 15 years. Okay, a little bit more than that probably. And uh it doesn't really change much. It doesn't change all the major issues. Seems like all we're talking about is the major issues here with the LTB and maybe they should hire a few more people instead of all the municipalities and trying to double down and go over things that the LTB is there for already. Um somebody mentioned a tenant leazison. Um there is already a ton of tenant uh free advice, guides, groups, online supports, everything. Uh if a tenant can get free help when they go to fight a landlord for nonpayment of rent, that landlord could be out already $20,000 but still has to hire representation where the tenant is getting it for free. Everything is written on the N3 notice. It states all their rights. They should be doing it properly. Again, another lady said there bad people for everything. Having more police doesn't stop all criminals, but we have to do what we can do. Tenants insurance is a big solver here. If we can force tenants to carry tenants insurance, that insurance would cover their displacement for something like we had a storm and it took off part of our client's roof. We had to fix it. The tenants had to be displaced. We have part of our um procedures is that it's mandatory for tenants insurance to be in place before we turn over the keys. But after we've turned over the keys, they can turn around and cancel their tenants insurance at any time with no recourse or anything like that. So then after this gentleman canled his tenants insurance, he's still living in the property all he has to get. But now it's our fault because he doesn't have tenants insurance. Where else are we here? Uh, vulnerable tenants. It's the landlords who have a disadvantage and are choosing to not invest at this moment anymore in Ontario. A lot of investors are going down to the United States, going to Alberta. You want to talk about housing issues? It's only going to get worse if investors are leaving this province because the Ontario government is relying on small investors now to provide the housing. Because you ask yourself, when the last time any affordable housing, rental buildings were built? Okay, Kathleen said something back in 2017. Well, their first building from her program took tenants in last year. So that's also uh anyways another conversation. All this is doing in my opinion and some people that I see is just a money grab sal. It's unfortunate. Maybe charging a little more property taxes a couple dollars here. I like that the lady said that they always going up and taxes Most leases are paid for by the landlord, not by the tenant. Someone else said that they're paying taxes through their rent, but it's not said that way in the lease agreement. For most of them, it says property taxes are paid for by the tenants or by the landlord. Um, and officials making decisions about the housing industry that aren't involved in the housing industry is like somebody from a back of the house making decisions for the front house or something that's not involved. Uh, I worked at a steel factory when I was 15 and the people in the office, they said all the time that we could do things faster in the factory to make more money and that's how we changed things. But none of them ever did what we did in the factory. So, how could they speed up something we didn't know how to do? Uh, the LTV is back by 53,000 cases. That's been changed. But how many of those were rentals? Okay, that's the biggest problem here. And that's delayed the LTV, but they have cleared it up and it's back down to something like two to three months, which is still too long. And I know I'm over my time, but Thank you so much for listening. Thank you Kevin for your presentation. There do not do not appear to be any questions. Thank you. Uh there are four folks left. Uh the next is Emanuel Melo. Emmanuel Melo. Thank you everyone. Uh every time I come here I get more gray hairs by the second. But I appreciate uh most of the council members here. We're going through with this. You guys know how important this is to uh to the city of Kitchener and I appreciate all the work that's going into it. Um I also appreciate that most of you understand how the bylaw works. That's good, too. Um my name is Emanuel. I'm going through a current N13. Uh it's in uh I'm waiting. Uh it was adjourned for almost a year. We I haven't heard I have no idea when it's happening. My building is a building of 15. Um seven have left and I understand they didn't have to leave as I heard earlier. Um, some of them were fed up with all the other scare tactics that also go with the N13. It's not just the N13. It's the, you know, our our laundry was tripled in cost. Um, our our snow plow came like twice last year. Uh, they did a little better this year. You know, things like that. Maintenance. Um, cleaning in the halls. It's disgusting. Um they've converted the units of those people that did leave that were nice two bed two-bedroom uh apartment units for families like myself uh into dorm style, you know, three rooms because now they can triple the rent by doing that. And hey, if someone leaves and they want to do that, I mean, I'm sure there's other, you know, uh bylaws and whatnot for that to enforce. I don't care about that. But to force people out of their homes, I fought very diff very much uh in court to have 50/50 custody of my kids when I got divorced. I fight fought hard for that. And I got a place and I'm underhoused. I have three kids and they're 14 and 12 uh year old twins and we're in a two-bedroom uh apartment because that's what I can afford. um this doesn't get passed uh with the additional you know topups and uh listen the tenant should not be having any burden in this um and I'm going to be all over the place because I've been writing notes so and I know I only got five minutes but there's a lot of things I want to address you know let's talk about the word renoviction we've all used it pro and against we're all using this word it's not a word by the way it's not in the dictionary it's not a real word it's a slang word because N13s were strictly being used to evict people that shouldn't have been evicted. That's why we're using that word and we're actually using it in the bylaw name. Renoviction, it's not a word. Look it up. Get a dictionary. It's not a word. But yet, we're using it because that's how much the system is being abused currently. Yeah, I have rights. When I got my N13, first thing I did, all right, what are my rights? Okay, I have the right to refusal. Phew, I'm protected by Great. First thing I did, emailed the property manager, "Hey, yeah, I plan to stay." Thinking I was good. Little did I know that this renovation was even a thing. I didn't even know that word until uh until luckily some of my colleagues uh came to our building and said, "Hey, don't be so sure that you're going to get that place back." And sure enough, we're hearing it all the time. Seven out of 15 units. One is a man with mental health issues that we tried to reach out. he wouldn't, you know, he had mental health issues. And they forced this poor man out. I don't know where he is. I don't know where he's living. I know that I went to the dumpster and there were hockey memorabilia and personal photo albums in the dump and that he just had to leave behind because he didn't know what to do. Where is he now? Is he on the street? Is he dead? Is he alive? I don't know. But this is why we need these rules. Okay. Bylaws are there to prevent, you know, yeah, you're always going to have shady people. It's another argument I'm hearing as well. That doesn't mean you get rid of the laws. That means you still put in laws in place. You're still going to have people speeding. We're not going to take away laws against speeding, are we? Or parking or anything like that. So, some of the comments I'm hearing is just making me angry. So, I apologize if I'm getting emotional. Um, you tell my kids when I have to go and I can't afford a two-bedroom apartment or even a one-bedroom apartment to keep four of us in there and I can no longer afford that. You tell my kids that they can only see dad once in a while. You tell them if you don't pass this law. So, thank you. Thank you for going forward with this. It's uh it's life-changing. And it's not just the cost for movings that need to be included. I don't know how you put a you don't put a price on the stress to pack your stuff up, find another place. Where can you afford without a top up? I'd now have to pay $2,500 in rent for the same two-bedroom apartment. I'm paying a thousand and that burden's on me. Why? I'm glad that we actually saw and I I'll wrap up soon and I'm glad we actually finally saw some some some people talking, you know, some tenants here or sorry, sorry, some landlords here. Uh because the past council meeting, we saw none. And uh and you know what, to the the the landlords that we saw here today, we're not targeting you. This is not for you. This is not going to affect you because luckily thousands of landlords are good landlords. I have friends that live in great buildings with great landlords. They take care of their property. They take care of their tenant tenants and they follow the rule. This rent eviction bylaw is for those shady people to deter them. We've seen Hamilton drop 75%. Wouldn't you love to drop something that's criminal and immoral by 75% with a bylaw? That's a win. That's a huge win. And I don't think you're going to see a ton of costs either uh going with this. Um, and I'm going to wrap it up. But yeah, thank you again. Um, please please make sure that we have uh we have topups. We have the less burden that we have on the poor tenant because these are low to mid income. I'm a single dad. I'm on ODSP. Thank you. No problem. Thank you for your presentation. There there are no questions. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, next is Caleb Degroup Mceddetti. Caleb, welcome when you're ready. Thanks. Okay. Yeah. So, my name is Caleb. Is the mic working? Can you hear me? All right. Okay. Thank you. Um, so I want to talk a bit about about my experience and a bit about the significance that I see in this bylaw. I'm here to talk in support of uh a strong renovation bylaw. I'm very pleased to be here and and here to talk about a renovation bylaw. And I'm grateful to the council and to staff and the consultants uh for for their work in in getting this going. Um, In 2022, I had a landlord that um contacted me and my roommates and told us that she was going to sell the place and it was going to be demolished. And she said that we had to sign N11 forms, which uh is obviously not the topic of this, but I understand an N13 is what should have been or or I'm not really sure. But that that kind of comes to my first points. um which is that tenants don't know what to expect with this stuff. And I think having a strong run eviction bylaw and giving this information to the tenants, I think that'll help a lot. And I think in talking with our landlord, it seems like she also didn't know. She said once that um because I was asking about the N11 form and again she was saying that we had to sign it and she was saying that her lawyer told her that that this is what she needed signed. So I'm hopeful that uh a renovation bylaw and the support from the city would clarify things for both landlords and tenants. Um, it was very scary to uh be contacted like this and to be told, we were told that we had to get all of our things out and leave the keys on the window sill. Uh, and we were hearing, you know, when we contacted some of these local organizations to help prevent uh evictions, uh, we were told different things that, you know, just don't sign the form. don't have to sign the form. Some of my roommates had already signed the form because they didn't they didn't want any trouble. I think this is another thing that it's hard to understand how much pressure you feel when the person that controls your housing is telling you you need to get out of here or even just having to tell them I think you sent me the wrong form or something like that. Um, I think it's a very big responsibility to control someone else's housing and I think it makes sense to regulate that. Um, I think having this kind of clarity from city hall would also help improve relationships between landlords and tenants. I think there's a lot of people there's a lot of people that talk about having very bad landlords. Uh, in my case, we were very fortunate. Um, we it felt a bit like we just waited out the clock. You know, we had been advised not to sign the N11 and we waited and and when the landlord showed up or when the landlord said she was going to show up, instead the buyer showed up and we found that he was much more trustworthy. He was a good landlord. Uh, and when he told us things, it was the same as what we were finding online and what we were finding experts telling us. and he came in and he offered to fix things. He was he was a great landlord. Um, and I don't like that the idea of a landlord in most tenants minds is if somebody who's going to let things, you know, get get broken down and and and just stop working and get neglected. And I think it it encourages tenants to feel like they should be neglecting the property. People don't want to contact their landlords because they're hearing about this so much and I think if we can uh emphasize that uh being a landlord is a responsibility and not just an investment. I think that would be very good for everyone involved. You know, even for landlords just having fewer legal fees and not having to deal with these things if it's very clear again from city hall. Um I think that would help. Um, and then another thought that crossed my mind, um, just as I was sitting here and hearing about all of this is that I I worry that if this was implemented or if this was pushed a year and a half down the road, I wonder if a lot of landlords, a lot of the not so good landlords might find a lot to uh to renovate uh in the year and a half that we have. Um, and and see that way of raising rents and again squeezing tenants for a lot more money. Thanks again for your time and uh yeah, thank you. Thank you for your presentation. There there are no questions. Okay, thank you. Um the next delegation is Karen Kurt. Good evening. Hi. Sorry I don't have a speech. I just found out about this and um so I'm going off the cuff. I just um wanted to read one quick thing to you. Note, you you have the right to move back into the rental unit once I have completed the repairs or renovations. If you want to move back and once work is done, you must give me written notice telling me you want to move back in. Also, you must keep me informed and writing anytime your address changes. N3 March 30th, 2023. The notice was given December 2022. We went to court a year later. Not myself, myself lived in the building for over 22 years and the building was run down. They all all it says is they wanted to um update plumbing and it was a boiler system. They wanted to go into um H um heat pumps. And going forward, it was a year before we hit court, hired a parallegal um because I was on TikTok one day and I saw my son's building on Tik Tok with a man standing in front saying and the address is right on it so I know it was my son's building. The city of Kitchener so slow getting permits we're waiting to turn this seven unit building into 13. That didn't say that. So going forward um we had to come here to get some he was actually issuing permits. He was right from day. Sorry Karen, can you just move over a little towards the microphone there? That's better. Thank you. He did get permits uh right from the day of eviction. So um I drive by that place every day. I take photos every day. The only time work was being done on and my son moved out and uh wrote the first writer refusal along with every other tenant but one. Everybody else got tricked into cash for keys because they're elderly. They're um and I can we went to court one day with one of the other tenants and they said, "You don't have a case." Why not? Well, because he signed the the land the landlord showed the paper he signed that it was cash for kids. Basically cash for keys. This poor guy didn't even know. We wasted our time taking time off work when it was a no-go. But anyways, back to my son. We waited a year, waited two years. It kept being postponed. As of Tuesday of last week, we were informed um we went to court Tuesday of last Monday of last week. Tuesday of last week and we were in a room, them and their mortgage broker were in another room and going back and forth going back and forth saying they're not um would he be he come from a two twobedroom? Would he accept a one onebedroom? Yes. With the $10,000 cash, he threw all his furniture because they thought, "Oh, we're getting new flooring and new kitchens. Would be nice to have new furniture when I moved back." Moved into a trailer. He also lost his elderly dog because his dog couldn't handle the stress of the move because he went to a small confined place and it broke my son. Broke him. He started living in a trailer just to go back. Did every single thing this uh N13 said once a month he told his landlord, "I'm coming back. I'm coming back. I'm coming back." He took pictures of the building every if not every day, every other day we took pictures. The only time they worked on the building was when it was closed to court. Uh so last Tuesday, the lawyer, our parillegal came to us and said um asked first asked if text me back and forth, will he take a twobedroom or a onebedroom with 10,000 cash? My son says I'll take the onebedroom with $15,000 cash because we already owe you I don't owe about eight grand. and I have to buy new furniture plus all the expenses of him going back and forth. Um, he moved to kitchen way out to Rubsville and he works out near uh Homer Watson and um I don't even know the other name Wabanaki. Anyway, so we were told you have to take this money or because the they don't have uh two bedrooms, they only have one bedrooms. his two-bedroom apartment was turned into two onebedrooms and the court would not force them to give him a onebedroom. So without risk, if we went to the tribunal, we or or went through with the case, it would have been 10 grand versus the offer they made with $17,000. That's what my son ended up with and can't go back to his apartment. So those So everybody that's calling out the law, it doesn't work for us. It doesn't work for the tenants. But that's off the cuff. But thank you if I sound a little over. Thank you for your presentation, Miss Curry. Are there any questions? Uh our final delegation uh joining virtually is Paul Margani. Paul Margani and it looks like he's Mr. Mani is not here. Might have been wearing a leaf shirt. Not sure. Um, so that concludes all the delegations we have then for this evening. Thank you everyone. Uh, now we I would go to members of committee to ask questions of staff. Uh, councelor Chapman. Yeah, I think I've asked all my questions, but I do want to move this when the time is appropriate and I would also like to um introduce an amendment. Uh, would you mind I think I know what the amendment is. Would you mind restraining the amendment just so folks can consider it while other questions are going on? Sorry. Sorry. Would you mind telling us what the amendment is so folks can consider it for Oh, I see it's actually here in front of us. That's fine. Um, there it is. Yes. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I can't Okay, just give us a second to look at this. Hang on. Sorry, my screen I can't see both at the same time, so I have to read it here. So, yeah. Okay, I could ask the clerk clerk to switch my screen back. Then we can continue. I think it'll stay on everyone else's screen and we're good. Okay. Uh so again, questions of staff councelor Deno. Thank you, Chair Davey. Um so we we've heard quite a few instances where uh landlords allow the units units building to become essentially uh a war zone. So what let's say a landlord does allow it to get to the point of like just shambles and I've seen it with my own two eyes. um a mini fridge left in a in an apartment, holes above the cabinets, and they apply for an N13 saying, "Well, we need to do these renovations." Uh yeah, renovations, but the renovations are now a result of of their own um negligence. How would we proceed with that? Like, are we going to allow So, obviously, the work needs to be to get done, but it's because they allowed that to get so bad. So, how do we how do we balance that out? Miss Vander, Miss Vanderill, go ahead. Through the chair, I would say we still have to encourage tenants to report uh units in disrepair so that the property standards by would kick in and we can mandate that those cosmetic repairs or minor repairs are amended um and fixed before it gets to a state that vacant possession would be needed. So, so just to interrupt, sorry, I did hear that too, but if you can just point the mic to your mouth. It's a little harder. Yeah. Thank you. Go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead, Council. Uh, and we've heard um that um that that happened potentially happened with our own bylaw. And so um if if again if it gets to that point, are we issuing N13s? um be even though tenants, you know, have complained for a year or six months saying, "Hey, you know, there's there's lots of deficiencies, are we going to allow an N13 due to their negligence um of the of their apartment, not the tenants, but the the landlord? If a qualified person can verify that the the renovations need to take place or significant enough that they would require vacant possession, some cosmetic um repairs or patches walls and holes and walls would would not require vacant possession and that's something that can be dealt with under the property standards by Okay. So, legally they could allow I don't even know. Yeah. Okay. I I I got the answer. Okay. Thank you, Mayor Benovich. Thank you very much. Um, and I'm not sure if this question is um for councelor Chapman or or for staff, but just to understand the proposed amendments that are that are in front of us um and the impact on u on potential renovations. Sorry, I'm talking pretty loud. Um, can you hear me now? One thing I'm rarely accused of is being too quiet. Um the um so so my question is is this. Um, so right now a when a tenant when a N13 is issued and a tenant is is moved out, when they come back to their unit, they come back at their old rental cost or some adjusted one that reflects the the the renovations that took place through the chair under the residential tenencies. act. If they uh trigger the right to return back to the to the unit, it has to be at the same rent that they were paying uh previously um with the whatever the designated rent increases going forward would be um going forward. But they can't increase the rent because of the renovation. But a landlord I believe does have an ability to if the cost of the renovations are um you know more substantive than would sort of be reasonable. They also have the ability to apply for a larger than than permitted percentage increase. Is that correct? They could and that would have to be approved through the landlord tenant board. Okay. Um, and so my my question I guess for councelor Chapman and and in in considering your potential um amendment is, you know, my my concern becomes that if it starts becoming too cost prohibitive to do a renovation that we can in fact find people living in in, you know, substandard conditions because folks don't want to, you know, a landlord may not want to pay the cost of the renovation plus the the cost now that you're outlining and so on. I mean, I think it's it's one thing to protect the um the tenant, but you're also now adding some substantive costs to to the renovation. Wondering if you can speak to that, councelor Chave. Yeah. Um, I think first of all, we have to differentiate between bad faith landlords and and good faith landlords. Um, a good faith landlord probably wouldn't allow their their apartment or their unit to get um to deteriorate in the way that we've been some of these units have been described, right? They'd maintain them and they they'd make sure that they're looked after. It's the bad faith landlords that that become a problem. Um, so is it unfair to say, well, they have to pay more um to accommodate the the tenants. So that this is their home. And we have to also acknowledge the fact that the um renov renovictions are mostly and I would say probably always targeting um units that are affordable. They're not targeting, you know, new units or or units that are being looked after carefully. So people that live in these units are paying um affordable rent, certainly affordable to them and to um expect them to be removed from their their living arrangement and um waiting for a landlord to to do a renovation. Um there there has to be compensation for that. No, I understand that, but I I'm just trying to to consider it in in, you know, the balance of all sorts of things that potentially impact on on housing supply and quality of housing supply and and just trying to make sure that we're we're giving everything full um full consideration in that regard. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Schneider. Thank you, Chair Davyy. Uh, one of the concerns we heard a few times tonight were landlords that drag things on and appeal. Um, could you explain what our appeal process would be under this bylaw and do we have any tools that the LTB doesn't to prevent things dragging on? Miss Vander through the chair. If you're speaking to dragging on the renovation work in itself, the license that would be issued under this bylaw would have to be renewed annually until the renovation work is completed and they would have to submit appropriate documentation or evidence to support what is taking the renovation so long to complete. In terms of appealing the eviction, that's done through the landlord tenant board. Um, and we would not be able to override their decision to evict or not. Okay. No. So, just help me understand this. So, if if we had made a decision that was in favor of the tenants and a landlord appealed it, we would not hear that appeal, that appeal would then go to the LTB. So, if you're asking if we if we denied a landlord a license, uh they would have the ability to appeal that to the licensing appeal committee with the city. similar to our business licensing bylaw, lodging house bylaw program. Um they would be able to speak to um why the that license was denied. Okay. And if they were still denied then what is that ended or what if they didn't comply or like what? So then at that point we would we could proceed with charges if they were denied a license and decided to carry on with renovations. Uh anyways, then we would be able to issue charges for doing the renovation without the license. Okay. All right. Yeah, mind looking back. I don't think I'm getting the maybe I'm not phrasing my question properly. Thanks. Thank you. There's Oh, there's councelor. No, go ahead. Thank you, Chair David. Just a question for councelor Chapman. I'm just trying to understand uh A and B on your amendments. And so we're doing the the difference between their current event current event current and an apartment that they will possibly rent or is it different? Sorry, Councelor Chapman. Go ahead. Yeah. So, if if a tenant is asked to leave or if they're evicted for um renovations to take place, the landlord would be required to um pay them the top up basically the rent from what because what a tenant is currently paying is probably let's say around $1,000. But that same size unit elsewhere is probably going to cost double if not, you know,500 or $600 more. So they would have to pay the top up fee to ensure that that person while the renovations are taking place, the tenant would have a a home to go to um before they come back. No, no. And I and I get that. I guess the and the second one has to do with the actual moving. Yeah. The part that I was confused about was the average like we talk about the average market rent um of a compar. Yeah. So I'll just add this. What you see before you is the same amendment that the city of Waterlue made to their bylaw. Well, that doesn't make me understand anymore. No, no, but I mean it I'm just and it's very similar to to Hamilton's. And so in B Yeah. Um, in B of this amendment, they they have to find a unit for the renter, the tenant. Sorry. They have to find a unit for the tenant. Like, it could be a building they don't own. Well, I mean, it's it's asking to help that they would help with with that um that process and compensate the tenant accordingly. Okay. And do you know you put $1,000 in there as a moving expenses? Do you know what an average move is? No, I like I said, this is what um Waterlue did. I figured this is a we're in the same region. I assumed you know that that would make sense. Um we can up it if you think we need more. Nope. Um but um part of the the purpose of this is to ensure that there is continuity throughout the region um so that it's clear to landlords and tenants um what the their responsibilities are. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to clarifying question to you Miss Ms. Vanderel. Can you remind me what the the current um like provincial rules are again for compensation? Um I know it's different for different number of units but um just for one could you remind me of the time frame through the chair it depends on the number of units in the building. Uh so if it's five or more it would be three months rent compensation and if it's less than it would be one month sorry if it's less than it would be one month. one month. Okay. And I guess part of the thing that we're trying to solve here question whether it's our jurisdiction, but um what happens then if the developer because like this is predicated on the fact or the understanding I would think that they would be done the renovations in that time frame. So is there any legislative rules at the province that like if they just say oh we're still not done and it goes on for months and months and months. Not that I am aware of and I think that's what some of the delegates are speaking to that some of the renovations get carried on for months or years at a time. Okay. I'm just trying to identify all of the all the issues at once here. Uh the other question that was raised by one of the delegates was um I see this like a huge part of this no matter what we do is information understanding your rights. Um and one of the issues that was raised was the city of Kitchener issuing um required work on on buildings. Is it maybe you're not prepared to answer this today and that's fine. Um but do we or can we um inform the address whatever that address needs. Can we not like can we not send them a letter saying you know we've noticed that through our building department there's been a permit that's been issued. Certain amount of work needs to be done. We want it's really important that you know your rights that you know this may or may not require any eviction but please go to this see these resources blah blah blah. Yes. And I think that's part of the tenant leaison position and some of the investigation work that we would have to work with building services and reviewing some of these building permit applications and trying to be proactive as best we can and uh inform tenants of their their rights and the landlord obligation. Okay. Um, if someone is issued an N13, whether it's, you know, now whether it's valid or not, um, they have a set amount of time to to leave. Uh, but if they appeal it to the LTB, they're allowed to stay in their dwelling until the LTB hear is has the hearing. Correct. That's correct. Okay. So, when there's a backlog of cases, while it may be very stressful for the tenants, they do still have a place to live up until the time that they hear the that Yes. Okay. Um, thank you. Those are my questions for now. Next is Councelor Schneider. Thank you again, Chair Davia. I'll I'll try this again. What I'm trying to get to the bottom of is who has the ultimate decisionmaking authority. So, if we uh implement this bylaw and uh a landlord was denied their request to renovate and uh the need to vacate the units, can they just say, "I'm going to the LT I'm going to take appeal our decision at the LTB." So, they can't appeal the decision of the municipality. Those are two different separate issues. So to issue the N13, they would have to get an eviction order from the LTB in order to carry on with the renovation. So if the LTB is supportive of the eviction, regardless of whether we issue a license or not, the LTB's decision would trump ours. Okay. And uh in in the first presentation uh we heard that uh our bylaw was uh meant to reflect uh LTB rules. So if we go beyond their regulations um can can that be upheld? Like we're talking about adding more than what they have in their regulations for compensation. So, can we do that if the LTB has the ultimate authority? If we're adding these regulations as part of our municipal bylaw, uh the LTB would have no no bearing in whether or not those regulations can be in place. It's whether someone wants to appeal or challenge the bylaw altogether for it being out of our jurisdiction. That's the concern with from staff about adding these extra provisions that are outside of what the RTA already provides for. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Venovich. Thank you. So, I I think you might have just answered my question. So, staff have had an opportunity to review the the addition that uh Councelor Chapman is proposing and and you have concerns around it. Is that what I'm hearing? These are the additional provisions outside of what the residential tenencies act provides for. So the bylaw that the staff are recommending is that we just align with the existing provisions of the RTA and not go above and beyond that. So even with the u legislative changes that have been uh approved by the legislature but but not proclaimed yet um these additional components are not are not part of uh what what was approved by the province. Correct. Okay. And so as a result of that they may be challenged is what you're saying. They may be we we don't know and these bylaws are new a new development in a number of municipalities so it hasn't been challenged yet but we don't know if it c it could be okay and it and at this point um waterlue has done this we have done sorry water has done this um Toronto has done this component what about the others waterlue Hamilton and Toronto all have these provisions included, these additional provisions. And to the best to the best of our knowledge, they have or haven't been like has anybody appealed them yet in either of those jurisdictions? To our knowledge, it hasn't been challenged. Okay. Thank you. I just have two more questions and then there's no one else in the queue. Um my first question was in uh I guess late last year there was bill 60 was introduced and my understanding is part of that too was mandatory use of all the LTB approved forms for termination notices. Um I didn't quite understand what that meant. So did that mean like it wasn't actually illegal to not provide the form in the past? I think because there was a lot of concern about landlords issuing um things just in an email or on a letter and it was not a formal official form by the landlord that requires uh to explain the rights and reasoning for the um the evictions in this case. Okay. I'm fortunate enough that I've never actually seen an N13, but do you know if the the form itself has changed to be more clear as a result of Bill 60? The form is a pretty standard form and it does clearly outline what the rights and obligations are. Okay. Just two more quick questions. Uh it did also in bill 60 and again I'm not sure if you know the answer to all these questions but I got to ask you. Um part of it was to shorten the timelines for reviews and appeals. Have we seen that yet? I don't have the answer for certain, but it's my understanding that they have added some additional resources and uh appeals are moving faster than they have been, but still lengthy. Okay. And again, my last question again trying to look at every angle to try and provide assistance here is with um number one, are there any is there any fee to actually appeal to the LTB? Um, and a side question that too, uh, legal aid, is that something that is routinely granted or are there folks that just they just don't they don't apply or they don't get, uh, that funding because that's a concern. I am unclear of the filing fee for the landlord tenant board, so I don't want to misspeak about that. Uh in terms of legal aid, usually it's uh would be available if you meet a certain financial threshold to warrant the use of the legal aid services, but what we've heard from engagement is that they're there are limited resources and they can only help as many people as they can help. Okay, that's okay. I was going to say that's helpful. It's just that the information is helpful. The answer is not. Um okay, uh Councelor Chapman. Yeah, thank you. Um, I just wanted to um point out but also and I this this was pointed out by one of the delegates that um and I'll read it. I read this is out of the Hamilton report, the the one-year report. It says during the landlord and tenant board hearing, both the landlord operator's legal representative and the tenants legal representative rent reference the landlord operator's failure to comply with the renovation license and relocation bylaw, namely the renovation bylaw. So this suggests to me that um that even the landlord tenant board is recognizing the value and the the the virtue of the the renovation bylaw in Hamilton like they they deferred to it and and pointed out the failure to comply. So I don't know if you want to speak to that a bit if you've heard of other situations where that happened. Go ahead. I'm not privy to that situation or that case. So I I should not speak about it. Okay. Thanks. Okay. That that concludes all the questions. So we'd be now into comments. We do have a motion and amendment on the floor uh by councelor Chapman. So looking for comments. Councelor Chapman. Can I speak to it before? Yes, please. Thank you. Um so first I want to thank um all the delegates that came to speak to us and those of you who told us your stories um and to those who submitted written support written messages and just you know for for people in the community that um are are concerned about the way forward here. I'd also like to thank staff for coming up with um this bylaw and um I also should thank Nicole Papkkey from Waterlue who um shared the bylaw with me, their bylaw with me with the amendments. The renovation bylaw that we have before us is designed to protect tenants against bad faith landlords. I'd like to believe that most landlords do not act in bad faith and in fact I do believe that the majority do not. This bylaw is for those landlords that are more interested in their profit margins than providing pe housing for people in this community. Kitchener's concerns about rent evictions date back to October 2021. So it didn't start last year. Um in 20 in October 2021, council called on the province to take additional and meaningful steps to address the everinccreasing problem of renovictions. Then in August 2024, Kitchener Council supported the the city of Toronto's call. I've already mentioned this this um section that where they were calling among other things requiring landlords to be responsible for finding temporary accommodation or providing sufficient location assistance, relocation assistance for their tenants for the duration of their rent evictions and to increase the required compensation to tenants in no fault evictions. Then in June 2025, Kitchener Council directed staff to develop a rental renovation licensing bylaw, commonly known as a renovation bylaw. So here we are five years later with what staff referred to as a modest licensing model. There's some great stuff in the report that's undeniable and it is um but it is in indeed modest and we need to take it a step further. The report comes at a time when the affordable housing waiting list is growing. Rents are out of reach for full-time minimum wage earners and the unhoused population is growing as well. These are not times for modest approaches. staff has chosen to follow London's modest approach rather than that of Toronto, Hamilton or Waterloo which provide compensation for relocation and for alter alternate accommodations. In order to to set clear consistent regulations and expectations for landlords and tenants in the region, we should be amending staff's proposed bylaw to include the compensation provisions as detailed in the Waterl bylaw. Hamilton's March 2024 2026 bylaw and I won't go through the details that that I've written here because this was already mentioned by the um some of the delegates but I encourage you to have a look at um the study because when we met in June of 2025 we we postponed the passing of the bylaw because we wanted data and now we have the data. Hamilton has had this renovation bylaw for a year now and they've pried provided some um very useful data that that shows the value of of of what what their renovation bylaw has done and they've amended it given the the um data that they collected. Housing is a human right and as elected officials we have an obligation to do our part to keep people housed. Um we're talking about people's lives here. I like Ken's comment when he was one of the delegates that we will not be able to build our way out of the affordable housing crisis. So I just want to add to that comment and said that we need to preserve the affordable housing stock we already have and that's what this bylaw will do will help to do. So it's in this vein that I propose the um the amendment that that you've seen and I hope you can support it. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Jano. Thanks, Cher Davyy. And uh again, thank you to the delegates that have come and spoken tonight, some who are still here and some who have left. You know, and I I say this quite often, elections have consequences. And I I'm probably preaching to the choir here because I I guarantee all of you folks voted or vote. Um but there is a huge segment of the population who don't vote. I work with with healthcare uh workers who don't vote or vote for parties that uh that affect them negatively. I I'll never understand why, but they do. So, um and so, you know, uh this part of the the additional um schedule 7 of bill 97. Um and I spoke to this a couple years ago with AMO and was given an answer of we're still working on it. um you know, this is the provincial um body of work, but if they're not going to do it, who's going to do it? Somebody's got to do it. Some like realistically, somebody's got to do it. And and we see our homeless numbers um and people living on the streets, whether they're seniors or young people, um continue to amass in our community. And so I will support councelor Chapman's amendments because I think adding that financial sense of security um will in most instances almost guarantees those tenants to go back um into that existing unit because there is f there is a financial cost associated with them um for however long they're out of their original unit. Um and and councelor Chapman was was correct that uh you know the good landlords won't have to worry about this. It's it's it's the bad actors and we know who they are. Um and I'm sure there will be more to pop up in our community though those are the individuals that have to uh will have to worry about this. Um my fear is you know if they let the building get buildings get to conditions that are are really poor um once they you know apply for an N13 that we will grant them um that right because they've allowed that. Now, that's a separate discussion that uh can be maybe held um outside of here, but uh you know, I I've said this before. I have co-workers who who are on the low scale wages of of our community and and they live paycheck to paycheck working a full-time job. um and having housing insecurity adds another layer of of a burden to them. Um I can't even imagine what it would be like to have to wake up every day and worry about this. I I I'm thankfully I've never experienced that. I can't imagine that it's that it's any fun. Um and so I I definitely um I feel for you individuals who are dealing with this because it's not right. Housing is a human right. And so, yeah, I I support the amendment and I support um I support the amendment. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Schneider. Thank you, Chair Davyy. Um and again, I want to thank everyone who's come in tonight and all the nice before. Uh it is it's very challenging and I think as city councilors um hearing these issues it's it's difficult but also as a city councelor I have to be mindful of my jurisdiction and what as city council we're responsible for for the city of Kitchener. So there things that are in our jurisdiction like our parks and trails, our streets, our road repair, our arena, sports fields, community centers, our sanitary storm water, natural gas systems, our fire department and library system. These are the things that we are supposed to look after and that the tax dollars that we collect go towards getting outside our jurisdiction could be very costly. I mean, I'm hearing complaints and calls about the reason we want to lose new waste collection system. So, we only get our recycling collected every two weeks now, our garbage every two weeks. Do we want to fill that gap and say, "Well, we'll we'll fill in the other two weeks, the other weeks." Uh and and this is where uh it it's it's very tough doing what we're supposed to be doing. And if we are going to do this, I I would like to move the decision to be deferred to the budget time because we have got a lot of competing needs to look after in our city that are within our jurisdiction and we are facing financial challenges with changes to development charges. We are uncertain of of what's going to happen with that. If we uh need to build new development and put roads, pipes, things in that could well be on us and have to come out of our tax base. So having a clearer idea of all the needs that we have within our jurisdiction, I think is important to have before we make a decision on something that is outside our jurisdiction. This is this is a service that is provided and funded by the province and I understand that there may be some dissatisfaction with the way it's been going but resources I understand have been added to it and we have have had some favorable decisions for tenants recently. So I would like to move a deferral of this decision to the budget process time. Thank you councelor Schneider. referral does take uh precedent and typically how the rules of procedure work is um folks aren't supposed to comment but I think in fairness I am going to let anyone that wants to make a comment before I take the vote in the furl uh do so. Uh Mayor Roanovich thank you thank you Mr. chair and u I uh I actually would ask that we split the deferral into two components. One being the the main motion and recommendation and the second one being the uh additional um information that that councelor Chapman um moved this evening. Um, and on the on the second one, well, let me let me let me put it this way. Um, I I plan to not support the the deferral for the main motion. Um, and I will move an amendment for the second part uh to to council. I mean, regardless, both of these would come to uh council anyway. Um, and I'll just make these comments in in in general. And I want to begin by thanking everyone who came in again um this evening or participated virtually or those who have been part of the process over the last couple years as we've we've looked at this issue. And there's no question in my mind that this has been a very complex and difficult issue uh for us to to deal with because um it is one that is charting some new territory in terms of the role of of municipalities. Number one. Um number two, it is uh getting into an area that has historically uh not been part of the responsibility of municipalities. But I will say that there are there are various areas that over time municipalities have engaged in um when they were of the public interest for the community that uh that we serve and as a result of that different bylaws have have come into place. Um, you know, those bylaws could have included things like, you know, licensing of certain types of businesses. We didn't always license all all businesses. Uh, it could have included, you know, making changes to, as this council did on things like fireworks. Very different issue, but we we made those decisions because as a council, uh, they were debated. There were different uh viewpoints, but at the end of the day, council made a decision that they felt was in the best interest of the community. And for for me, I think what the compelling issue here is there are a lot of very passionate, difficult stories that have been shared tonight and that have been shared at different points in time. um but by what I will call inscrup unscrupulous um landlords that exist in our community and that we know not only exist in this community but in some instances also operate in uh in in other communities and if everybody was doing what they were supposed to do there wouldn't be the need for us or the province to be doing this work. Now, as we've advocated in the past, I mean, my preference would be that there would be a provincewide approach to this, but we're not there yet. We know that there's been legislation passed. We know that there has been, um, some, you know, work done. Um, it has not been given royal ascent yet. Um, we also know that uh there has been some success at at uh the the tenant review board on on uh on some of the appeals that have been filed, but there's not enough consistency there. And at a time when many people are struggling from a housing point of view, uh I do think it is important that um that we actually move forward on this, that we give some direction and that's why I'm I'm hoping that we can move forward tonight on the core recommendation. Um, and on the amendment, I would uh ask that that be deferred to to to council because ultimately um this is a the the proposal that councelor Chapman has brought forward is fairly substantive. Um, I know I and I'm guessing others probably would have appreciated having it sooner than um, you know, in the midst of today's meeting so we could have given it appropriate consideration. And so I would uh, you know, I I I think waiting for that to be dealt with at council is uh, is is not inappropriate. Thank you. Councelor Chapman, you already spoke, but on the but I'm spoking spoking I'm spoking I'm speaking to the deferral to the deferral. Go ahead. Can I? Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. Um so I don't support the deferral um of any part of this. Um, as I said, we've been working on this um for five years in different ways and um I think that, you know, we we're we're witnessing more and more renovations happening in this city and the I I just want to point out that not only Kitchener, well, not Kitchener yet, Waterlue, Hamilton, Toronto, and London have passed renovation bylaws, but St. Katherine Sudbury and G are in the process of of drafting their own as well. So this we're not alone in this. It's not like we're taking the lead and we should be afraid of what might happen. This is happening and municipalities across the province appreciate the value of of bringing forward rent eviction bylaws. So I don't think we need to be timid about this. I I do have concerns about the the funding. Um, and I don't know if I can add another amendment, and that would be that staff come back with um a a a places that we could be able to draw the money for from in order to to see this move forward. But I really I really do not think we need to be afraid of this. Nothing has happened in Hamilton. They've had this in place for a year. There have been no legal challenges. We've got an example of how they the LTB recognized the work that the renovation bylaw had done in in the city. So, um I won't accept a deferral of any part of this report. Madam clerk, I can't see who's in the queue here. Recorded votes been called for everything. Yes, that I Oh, councelor Michelle, go ahead. Yeah, thank you. First of all, I want to thank everyone for coming out tonight and and in the past when you come out for all your perseverance on this. It's a really important issue. Um it's all about the health of our community and the health of our community involves everyone including you. Um I I uh I support this. I I won't support the amendment. I would defer that for another time. I think it's a lot to digest um here tonight. I haven't seen it yet. So I would defer that. But I would certainly uh um I like the way that that we're moving the needle towards um uh renoviction bylaw. Thank you. That looks like everyone. Uh councelor Chapman. It was it was deferred to budget. Uh it was uh councelor Schneider that moved the deferral so it would be up to him as to when to defer it. And he I believe he deferred everything to budget. Councelor Schneider, did you want to change that? Um you're not obligated to. It's up to So I'm just I just I haven't made my comments. I don't want it to get messy, but I um Why don't you think about it for a second? I'll make my comments. The information that you know could come forward, but I I it then would have to be if if it came to council and we deferred the main motion to the budget. Yeah, it doesn't. And I don't think it makes logical sense. It's kind of all or nothing, I think, at that point. Yeah, I think I'll just leave it as as is. Keep it clean. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. On Okay, I haven't made my comments yet. Mayor Banick, do you just just everyone's clarity, whatever we passed tonight ultimately needs to be ratified at council. My point of splitting the deferral, which right now is for the whole motion um with the amendment that councelor Chapman has has proposed um is to if council were to uh to support that and and not support the deferral, then we could take a vote on the main part of the motion this evening. and people who have been here and participated and so on would know at the very least that that is either passed or not passed. There is a second component around the financial pieces that I think in fairness it's fairly substantive and I think it would be reasonable to defer that to council so people can not have to choose between voting or not voting on that today um without having to without having been able to give that appropriate consideration. Um, but the motion that's on the floor right now is that both of those components would would be deferred to budget. And so council needs to decide if they support that or or if they don't, then we can deal Well, I mean, I guess you can split it up. Yeah. So, I think in this instance, it actually makes logical sense then to vote on the main motion deferral first and then if that passes or I guess then we'll deal with the the deferral, the second one afterwards. Okay. Yep. Yeah, that's that's Dave's motion. So, we're not boarding that. Yeah. I just wanted to make my comments real quick if I could. I just Yeah. I don't envy days like today because what I heard was a whole bunch of uh delegates and an issue that, you know, we've all spent a lot of time thinking about. And the terrible thing is every single person that came down here and spoke um was correct. like they this is a problem that definitely needs to be solved. Where I struggle as longtime finance chair is this again is not the jurisdiction of the city of Kitchener or municipalities. Yes, other municipalities have passed it. But if you paid attention those that bothered to ask their staff, their staff were opposed to it. The councils were all the councils who who employed their professionals to give them advice on things like jurisdiction. they overrode it and I have on rare occasion done that like for example we've sold lands you've donated lands sorry uh for affordable housing um I've supported that proudly supported that um but this jurisdictional creep is not is not good we are literally self downloading um the way unless you want to break democracy you have to make sure that there's clear jurisdictional boundaries if there's a problem with education you contact the province there's a problem with immigration, you contact the feds. If there's a problem with your potholes or your parks, you contact the lower tier municipality guys. I also know we heard just earlier today the massive challenge we're going to have dealing with our development charge shortfall. And I can guarantee you if we pass this now, I promise you some of you will regret it come budget time when there is a very real possibility we're going to have to face cuts in the things that actually are in our jurisdiction to carry the water the province of the w the water of the province, pardon me. And it's just again it's not right. Um I did ask some questions in terms of what we can do on on an education side. Can our building department make sure that folks are more aware? But I'm telling you there's been a few times when I've been as concerned about a way that the lower tier municipality is going because we are ones that care enough to sit here and listen to you because you can't go talk to the province directly. You can't go talk to the feds uh directly or as easily. And because of that we feel a collective responsibility to solve every single problem. And we can't. And eventually eventually we're going to run out of money to do these things and then we're end up letting staff go. That's that's where we're headed. So if I'm passionate about this because um like you know Mr. Murdoch, I got your voicemail. You still here? No. Oh, there up there. I got your voicemail. I know you guys care. Miss Wells, uh Mr. Bogle, like you guys been on this forever. And I just want you to know that when I vote against this, it's not because I don't care. I don't think you're right. It's because it's not the job that I signed up for. and I will be with you advocating to the province, but it's not the job that I signed up for. So, um, so on that, we're going to take the deferral of the main Oh, sorry, Councelor Johnston. That's what I was going to ask. Yes. Yeah, I'm going to explain. Yeah. Yeah. So right now the motion on the floor is the deferral of the main motion which is to implement the rental or the rent eviction bylaw uh to defer that the entire thing basically to the budget budget and conceivably the next council as well 2027 budget. Okay, everyone clear on that? Sorry, not the amendments. We're dealing with the main motion first and then we're going to deal with the amendment afterwards. Okay, so a recorded vote has been called and it is on deferring. If you agree that we should defer it to budget, you would click the green button. If you think we should deal with it now, you click the red button. I did not see the results of still can't quite see that. four. So that fails on a fails on a tie. Okay, this should be interesting. Um, so now we would Yes. So yeah. So now we're dealing with the motion to approve the M. No, we have to do the amendment first, right? So now that that failed, we have to deal with the amendment. Um, so if you want to move a different deferral on the amendment, you can because now it doesn't really apply to budget because it can't go to budget. So, Mayor B, do you want to move amend the amendment? I'm moving that the amendment be deferred to council. Only the amendment that the amendment be deferred to council. Okay. So, is everyone clear on that? Sorry. Yeah. So, Mayor Benovic's the additional amendment that councelor Chapman brought forward. Mayor Ben is suggesting we defer that to council. If you want to deal with it now, like as an example, like not this way, but like I I'm comfortable dealing with it now. So, I will be voting against the deferral. If you want to have some time to think about it, then you would vote in favor of the deferral. Okay. So, everyone clear? So, it this is deferral of the amendment only to council. Yes. of the amendment amendment council and then we'll deal with the main motion afterwards of next. Yeah. Clear as mud. Okay. So, if you vote if you want to if you want just again so we're crystal clear. If you want to deal with councelor Chapman's amendment now regardless of what happens to the main motion then you would vote no. If you want to deal with it at next at council which will get complicated if the main motion fails. Don't worry about that later. Um then you would vote yes. Okay. Okay. Recordment call. Voting for it at at council. You vote yes. If you want it to go to council, you vote. Yes. And that carries. Now we vote on um the main motion. Not a deferral, just approving or disapproving uh the main motion. So if you want Okay. This is a recorded vote as well, which hasn't come up yet. And that carries by a vote of five to three. Okay. So, thank you everyone for participating. I know that was a long time and a lot of folks waited waited a very long time to participate, but I we all appreciate it. Okay. Oh, sure. So, what happened? Yeah, I understand. I was I'm still a little confused. No, it's uh the main motion passed. So the renov So the um the main part of the the original renovation bylaw uh has passed. It was going to go to council now for ratification. So something could still change at that point. And the amendment by councelor Chapman was deferred to council. So we'll be discussing that at council. Okay, everyone got it? Okay, thank you. Actually, we'll just take two seconds if folks want to filter out here before we get on with the the balance of finance and corporate services. You good to go, Madam Chair? Oh, okay. All right. Let's uh move along here. Uh Miss Jang, you're going to walk us through um some of the um commercial business approval highlights when you're ready. Oh, sorry. Mr. Bloom, you're starting us off. Go ahead. Uh through the chair and council, I wanted to introduce council to uh Miss Jen. She's been a planner with the city for 5 years, but this is her first presentation to council. So, for those who haven't met her, she is a a familiar face around city hall. uh as as part of your strat plan for this term of council, one of the areas you wanted to focus on was approvals uh permit approvals for small businesses such as restaurants, service, uh retail, etc. And so, uh Miss Jang, Miss Miss Zang has been uh was Sakonda to do to lead this work for over the past two years and she's here to tell you about the work that we've done. All right, then with that introduction, welcome whenever you're ready. Tara Zang and I'm here to provide an update on the accelerating commercial business approvals project and highlight the progress achieved since its launch. There's a power. Thank you. Uh just a little background, commercial businesses often need to navigate multiple permits, licenses, and approvals across several city departments. These processes were often experienced as complex, time consuming, and difficult to navigate, resulting in delays and uncertainties for business owners. In response, this strategic plan was introduced to streamline permitting approvals and licensing processes, helping businesses open their doors faster, improve customer service, and ensure customer remains the kitchener remains attractive to businesses and entrepreneurs. As a part of this work, a lean review was identified uh 50 action items to improve seven processes across five city departments. Today we have completed uh 42 out of 50 items with the remaining items currently underway and continuing to be implemented. I'd like to highlight three key improvements that have been launched as a part of this initiative. The first is digitalizing online portals. Many processes have been transitioned from paper and email based submissions to an accessible online portal, including applications for signed permits and zoning certificates. This shift eliminates unnecessary waiting periods and paper handling, reducing back and forth communication and allows applicants to complete and track submissions more efficiently from anywhere with internet access. So in the screenshot photo uh on the slide, it shows an example of how the portal looks like in the customer's perspective with seven steps to submit a zoning certificate through the new portal. The second highlight is the implementation of permit and licensing consultations. Staff from multiple departments like building, planning, licensing, and economic development attend on-site visits at commercial units to walk through the space with the business owner and discuss all permits and approvals required to support a smoother business opening process. The pilot program was completed with just under 10 applications and received positive feedback through postconultation surveys with the business owners. For applications that participated in the per licensing consultations, the average building permit processing times were reduced by 27% from application submission to the permit issuance. In addition, business licenses processing times were reduced by 33%. Demonstrating that these um this program was meaningful for improvements in service delivery and coordination. The third highlight is the development of a 20page guide book and nine individual uh process specific brochures. The comprehensive guide book provides an overview of the city's processes, key contact information, available resources, and practical tips to help navigate the business and permit journeys. The nine individual brochures are tailored to specific processes such as building permits, facade grants, and many more. As you can see on your tables there, uh each brochure outlines the application process, expected timelines, key considerations, and includes clear checklists to support transparency and consistency for all the parties involved. The use of these highly visual and easy to understand documents is expected to improve clarity, coordination, and a shared understanding between businesses and the city staff. Okay. So, in closing, we recommend continuing this initiative to build on the efficiencies and positive outcomes achieved so far. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry, I can't see. Oh, there are a couple questions. Beginning with council, thank you for the presentation. Um, I really like these uh pamphlets. I'm just wondering one of them is missing a barcode or uh whatever it is, the QR code. Are are these how are these going to be distributed. Are they going to be in our business center or are they going to be Sorry, one second here. Oh, there you go. They're the chair. Uh, thank you for your question. Yes, so one of them didn't have an encroach for the encroachment agreement um barcode. We don't have a specific website for that. So, we have the contact information listed instead. If there is one in the future, we would like to add it on, but just right now, we don't have that specifically. Um, sorry, your second question. Yes. So, we do have two sets of these pamphlets and brochures uh ready to be displayed in the service center. One of them, yeah, for the service center at the front where people can access them really easily. And the second set is in the small business uh center so that when business owners are interested in um getting service there, they can also pick these up. Okay. Um is there going to be quick easy link for the for this information on the website. Yes, this will be posted on the website with downloadable PDF forms. Okay. Anyways, I'm prepared to move this when the times appropriate. So, thank you. Certainly, there are one, two, three, four people in the queue. Council or sorry, Mayor Benovich. Yeah, just very quickly, um I I was just going to comment these are excellent resource materials and uh really uh really impressed with the main booklet and and all the little subbooklets. So well done team and uh happy to I know we don't need a seconder but happy to second it anyway. Thank you. Thank you. Have to wait for council for that one. Uh councelor Singh. Yes, thank you. You know, this is a this is a positive direction and making things more concise and helpful for new business owners who we are desperate for new businesses opening in a downtown. Uh we want to limit the uh the level of occupancy that exists right now as much as possible. I'm assuming this is just for our reference the PDF easy to read, easy to disseminate will be online as well through a easy to find link. Okay. uh just as a recommendation more than anything. I think this is uh uh again this is I think one way of doing this but uh we could you know we talked about digital Kitchener AI making things easier an AI agent that answers all these things on top of whatever layers on officer or person that would be at city hall that can help guide a uh applicant but someone that can just you know go in and various different questions through our website uh train agent on all the uh requirements of opening up a business. So, I think that would be a good good thing. It'll help along. Um, other than that, um, like are we going to have someone from economic development that can help guide someone that may not be as informed or like a leazison officer? Mr. Blue. Uh, so through the chair, uh, so this process has allowed has enabled a number of improvements. So, number one, if it's a downtown business, yes, our our downtown team uh either Ara or one of our staff will facilitate uh bringing members of business uh building licensing, etc. down. If it's in the if it's in a suburban ward, it will most likely be one of our business development team members. Uh but either way, I think that the the strongest benefit is now we have a a staff team across multiple departments and divisions familiar with this kind of service and willing to offer it at at irregardless of where the location of the business is. Yeah. just uh this is more of a recommendation. I think we have to have efforts where we're promoting a downtown kitchen or open for business kind of uh kind of forum where anyone that's looking to open up some sort of in-person presence be an office, be it retail, be it a restaurant, uh that they can be promoted towards our downtown. So, whatever at a venue or whatever we're whichever way we're trying to present and bring people here and showcase. What I'm trying to say is we need to showcase our downtown. It's not enough and saying, "Hey, we'll make it easy for you when you've already decided on our downtown." What I'm saying is we want to encourage them to choose our downtown. So, I'll leave it at that and I know it's in good hands with staff through the chair, if I may. So, Andrew, under Andrew's leadership, the downtown team is working on a retail attraction strategy. And so, I think the good part is we'll have somebody out there doing exactly as you said, and once they're interested, we've got the the staff team here ready to support them through the permit process. Uh, Council Johnson, thank you. Uh, thanks, Chair Davyy, and thanks for this presentation. I think it's great. I totally agree that these pamphlets are wonderful, and uh, we do need to get them out to people. So, I'm wondering I this um, Belmont Village BIA um, the downtown BIA, this is this is where these need to go to. It would be wonderful if we could um set up some meetings um like attend one of their meetings and and bring these I'm looking at patio approval for one thing that that's a really important one etc. So if we can go to the uh the BAS I think would be really great. uh was also thinking of you know can we reach out to the KW chamber and you know see if they can put these onto their onto their website do a link or something to them or even see about getting in in front of them and our own EDAC committee I think would be great you're probably already planning something with EDOC but I think this is this is really great and I think that goes to what councelor Singh was trying to say is to uh make sure that we're getting them in front of people. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you, councelor Chapman. Yeah, I just want to agree with what's already been said. I was thinking of the BIA and I hope, you know, not just that we share them with them, but that we work collaborative collaboratively with them. And I know we already do. So, I think this is a great resource that that they'll embrace if they haven't already seen. Thank you, Councelor Michelle. I'm just going to add to this. I I think this might be a good the community centers might be a great place to have some of these because you get a lot a lot of foot traffic in there that you wouldn't necessarily get in the downtown and there's plenty of opportunities for retail and business growth in uh in the suburbs. So like community center thanks great job and council. Yeah, thank you. Can you can you remind me why we're doing this through the chair? Uh this is a guide because um we want to have a better customer experience with the city especially there's been multiple permits that are quite confusing because um business owners are focusing on you know opening their business. They're not familiar with how uh building permits are, how to get a facade grant, how to put up a sign. Um and oftent times it's really difficult to know not know what you don't know what you don't know. So having this um visually is kind of like in their face and they kind of see what's needed um before they find out at a later date like 3 weeks later and uh it'll be a surprise to them. Okay. Did we have to hire any additional staff to do this? Uh we did have a budget and the budget was uh to hire a consultant and they did consulting uh with staff. We also uh invited external agencies. We've consulted with um AGCO. They are part of licensing and we also consulted with uh business owners in the downtown area. Uh they have also participated in our workshop to see um what they wanted and what they needed in these uh brochures and we took in their con comments into consideration into making these. Mr. agreement to add uh through the chair. And so this was originally identified in the strategic plan as a post um COVID recovery um component of our economic development strategy in the in the um strategic plan and there's a 18 months of comment that was created to project manage the um overall 50 initiatives that we were implementing. So we kind of did it to cut red tape, right? Correct. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. No one else in the queue. just quickly add that you had me at the uh sped up permits and approvals and good work. Uh on motion by councelor Ionitis. Those in favor and that carries unanimously. Good work. Okay, the next item, there's no presentation. It's the uh use of corporate resources for campaign purposes during an election year. I could I get a mover moved by Mayor Venovich. Any questions, comments? Okay, there are some uh councelor Ius. Yeah. Um I guess uh the questions that I have is regards to if for for for folks here that would want to use uh well want to use corporate stuff. one, how how do we how do we distinguish that like between like because there's a lot of like I mean there's a lot of thing instances where it's still us doing our job but so like what's what's the parameter where's the line is red there you go thank you through the chair The distinction is around campaigning and as defined currently in this policy, campaigning is the promotion or opposition of a candidate or a ballot initiative. And so if the objective of the use of those resources is to campaign, then it would be limited by this policy. Okay, that's very good. Okay, thank you, Councelor Chapman. Yeah. Um, are these computers city property through the chair? I believe so. So, we could not use our city computers to draft a um fundraising letter. That is correct. You would not be allowed to use a city device of any kind to campaign. Okay. Councelor Singh. So, It's good that we're getting that clarity. I think many of us have cell phone devices where we have two SIMs instead of carrying two phones and we may have our personal number and our city number or in teams which most of us use now. So technically when the election comes around this device may be used which may not would not be the city number but would be a personal number but the device itself that's receiving the call may be city funded. So, in which case then I need to put this phone away during that time and get a new phone for that period. Correct. Through the chair. That is correct. If it's a phone that is paid for by the city, regardless of the SIM card that's in the phone at the time, that's a city property. It's good clarification. Thank you. It's good that we're getting this now. Um, sorry, Carry. Um the report also outlined there the assistance or support that's offered to counselors that that would be limited after May the first. Um what if it's continuation of something that uh what counselors do in our uh engagement strategy with our with the constituents? uh where where's the I guess room for us to carry on conducting our duties as counselors through the chair the support that c members of council currently receive to conduct your business as members of council may continue uh the policy does speak specifically to that in section 4.2 only the first two the last two months of the the last two months where the restriction is for events that occur during that period which are part of the um finance policy on uh uh council expenses. Thank you. Um, but if the other support that you receive are for regular day-to-day operations as a count member of council, that may continue. So, I understand it, but sometimes the day-to-day support may be related to constituency outreach. Um, can that proceed past the May 1st date, but up until the two-month period that that's laid out by the report? That is correct. It's only the blackout period of the 60 days before and including voting day which that is restriction takes place. Okay. Thank you. One last question. Are we required to return the devices to the city or we just uh required to regulate ourselves through the chair. You are not required to return your device. Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. There are no other questions. Can I get a mover for this? Oh, sorry. Yeah. Mayor management was uh sorry long. Uh those in favor And that carries unanimously. Thank you. Uh the next item, oh actually, yeah, Miss Fusco is going to do a presentation. That's the governance review and terms of reference for advisory committees. Good evening. Today I'm presenting the findings of the advisory committee governance review, why this work is needed, what we heard, and how we can strengthen the model. Advisory committees of council have served the city for decades as trusted forums where residents, council, and staff collaborate on complex and community sensitive issues. The review acknowledges this legacy and builds upon it by ensuring the structure continues to serve today's needs effectively. The goal of the review was to respond to practical challenges that have emerged over time as the city has grown, diversified, and adopted new engagement tools. This is the right moment before the 2026 recruitment cycle to update the terms as a starting place to address clarity and expectations. Through the listening survey and listening tour and survey members highlighted the advocacy occurring, the ability to get involved in community issues, positive relationships with staff, and desire to improve decision-making by including providing their feedback on diverse topics directly informed by their lived experiences. consistent themes developed that help to explain why modernization is both necessary and timely. There's confusion about roles, whether advice is meant for council or for staff. This lack of clarity can lead to mis misalignment or committee members invested time in discussions without understanding how or when their input would be used. Processes like agenda setting, consultation, and follow-up can be inconsistent. How items are brought forward, how recommendations advance, and how advice is ultimately considered in decision-m can be unclear. Participation barriers, whether it be recruitment, attendance, or quorum, can make it hard to attract and sustain diverse voices and lived experience. This feedback is not unique to the city of Kitchener. Similar findings emerged in recent reviews conducted by Hamilton, Ashawa, and Ottawa, reinforcing that these structural challenges are indicative of the changing ways that feedback is provided. Hamilton uses targeted time limited liaison groups, while Ottawa uses working groups for non-satutory matters. These models help to provide clear scope, stronger alignment with council priorities and shorter volunteer commitments without reducing transparency. Exploring emergency emerging models does not imply abandoning advisory committees. Instead, it provides a menu of tools that can be used thoughtfully, ensuring the right engagement method matches the right issue. For Kitner, these examples are not prescriptive but informative. They demonstrate that modernization can coexist with strong democratic values and that flexibility can enhance rather than weaken public trust. The city already uses working groups, resident panels, advisory councils, and action councils successfully. The opportunity lies in ensuring that advisory committees fit coherently within this broader engagement ecosystem, avoiding duplication while preserving transparency and accountability. The review identified several practical opportunities to strengthen the advisory committee system. So three opportunities include clarifying governance and mandates. So again, updating the terms of reference to address mandates, roles, and responsibilities to ensure committees are purpose- driven and aligned with council priorities. Engaging committees earlier in project cycles equips members to provide effective advice and understand how influence occurs within a municipal context. And lastly, improving accountability and inclusion through stronger onboarding and mo more consistent processes with clear agenda setting, standardized onboarding and training and consistent attendance expectations will help to address quorum and challenges related to attrition. So to summarize the recommendation in the report, phase one of the approach of the approach this basis of this report focuses on immediate practical improvements through updated terms of reference for all advisory committees and policy amendments. changes address long-standing inconsistencies related to composition, attendance, quorum, and role clarity, creating a more stable and predictable foundation for the next council term. Committee specific improvements like the proposed accessibility advisory committee illustrate how modernization strengthens and reflects current needs and processes. Internal recruitment and onboarding practices are being improved with enhanced applications, structured onboarding conversations, and offboarding surveys, contributing to a healthier volunteer life cycle and clearer expectations from day one. While the municipal election is a priority in the fall, further reporting back on changes to structures is not possible and staff recommend a phased approach that allows council to guide modernization over time. Phase two identified in the report for 2027 will be led by staff in the service coordination and improvement as well as the engagement areas. It will examine how advisory committees interact with other engagement models and how community input is incorporated into decision-making. And phase three, anticipated to occur in 2029, would address reporting relationships between advisory committees and council, examining how advice is transmitted, tracked, and reflected in staff reports and council decisions. With that, I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you. I'm waiting to see if there are any. Yes, there are. Mayor Venovich. Uh, thanks. No, uh, no questions. I'll I'll move it. Um, partially no no major questions because the report's coming back in in 2027 and certainly open to looking at um looking at new ideas. But I I will say that if I am so fortunate to uh to continue to be around this horseshoe um post uh post November um sorry I didn't announce anything um but if I am so fortunate to continue to uh still be around this horseshoe um I would have some knowing in in in my work with municipalities in in all different parts of uh of the country and elsewhere. I would have some serious reservations about moving away from a strong um model of advisory committees and and engagement. Um I do think that there's some things that need to be tweaked. I I think one of the things that we changed a few years ago that has actually I think not been helpful is we used to have um citizen and council co-chairs of advisory committees. Um I think moving away from that has not been helpful and and I'd like to see that looked at as as part of this because when that existed there was uh it was an opportunity to to to mentor new counselors to mentor citizens who were co-chairs. It provided a stronger liazison then between those folks and staff uh in between meetings. Um and I think we've lost some of that quite frankly. Um and uh you know there there are times when a working group may make some sense. We we've seen that with uh our strategic plan and so on, but there's something to be said about the regularity. But that'll be a debate for 2027 once the information comes back. In the meantime, staff can go and do the work. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Chapman. Yeah. No, I look forward to seeing what's what is proposed, but I have a question about the current model and I bring this up today because it it's come up at different times in different advisory committees that I've been on. And that is, are um members of the committee and not council members, but residents able to bring motions forward to council? How does how does that work? So through the chair. So that is one of the major points of confusion. Um so generally speaking the committee members are able to bring forward motions to the advisory committee. Um ultimately outside of compass Kitchener and heritage Kitchener their recommendations don't go directly to council. So staff would work with the staff leazison would work with the individual committee me committee um to prepare a staff report to council um expressing the committee's discussion and ultimately what the recommendation would be um and so it's not a direct reporting relationship for the majority of our advisory committees. They have to work through staff to bring items forward. So the staff then would bring the motion forward or it would go to a council member of the team of the committee could bring it forward of course. So through the chair, we've seen it happen both ways where a member of council can bring forward a notice of motion on behalf of the committee. We've also seen it where staff bring forward a recommendation report, but the residents themselves can't through the chair. That is correct. Okay. Thank you. Okay, that concludes all the questions. I don't think I have a mover for this. Do you ever manage to move that? Okay. Uh sorry, comment. Councelor Stretch, you Thank Thank you. I just wanted to say that I saw lots of the feedback that I've also heard um as a member of se several advisory committees. Um so I'm really just happy to see that you've collected that and and listened and been able to um see a way forward where how we can increase um yeah I want to I want to say user experience but just participation. Thank you. Thank you. Greet moved by mayor Benovich. Those in favor and that carries unanimously. And that also concludes finance and corporate services committee. Thank you everyone. And we got in just under 11 o'clock so we didn't have to have that extra motion to go

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