Transcript - Toronto Tackles Pothole Crisis - City Council

simply putting orange paint around the edge. And I don't know if that's going to help on a cold, dark, rainy night, uh, like when I hit a big pothole and jarred the whole car. And, you know, it would have been great if it could have just been dealt with in some manner, even if it was filled with gravel. Is there anything that we could do or look into with respect to that uh through the speaker? Um, so I think there's certainly some things we can look into. I believe there's going to be a motion coming to ask us to look at some of the new technology around Ashefelt. It's going to be moved by one of one of the counselors. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Council, uh, through you chair to staff. Um, I like to understand. So, um, when a complaint for a pothole goes in through 311, um, often it's accompanied with a picture. Staff go out, try to find a pothole, and if they can't find it within the system, it's marked as complete, and there's no outreach to the person that made the complaint or the or feedback through 311 to the counselor's office. Is there some way that that can be dealt with through the speaker? Um, councelor Aninsley, we are working through the closing the loop and it's going to come back to committee in May. Um, there's lots of opportunities for us to be transparent and give better feedback to our residents. Okay. But sorry, and to transportation staff, why is that being done now? Why why are why is work being done marked as complete by your staff when they they can't find it and there's no outreach back to the counselor's office or the resident through through the for example I have an email I have an email from staff uh a pothole was reported your staff couldn't find it they took a picture of the the roadway where they thought the pothole was and then the item was marked as complete. So there's no outreach back to the to my office or the resident that filed it. I'm trying to understand from transportation services why that's done to the speaker. Uh in that case, it's probably a one-off where there was a mistake made by the person updating the the case where it should be cancelled if the pothole wasn't there. Sorry. Once again, a transportation staff, the email resonated from your staff, not 311, that the item was completed. Yeah. Through through the chair, uh the staff would re report to the area, do an inspection to see if they could find the pothole. If they can't, um you know, they would mark it complete because in but in their but their minds there isn't a pothole there. So maybe the information is not accurate with regards to the actual location. Um but we can we can look at you know the closing of the loop reporting back that we didn't find a location so we can get more additional information on where the pothole actually is. Okay. But it comes with a picture. So that's my rhetorical question. Um, the next one I wanted to ask was around, so if a a pothole's filed through 311 to be completed and you send a staff crew out, um, what can we do to get them, I guess, more motivated or more inclined to repair adjacent potholes and not do the one they have to do? I know they're very busy, but if they have potholes in the immediate area, why they aren't dealt with and how what can we do to put a system in place so they can say, "Hey, we filled this one. There was one next door." They fill out a form or they do something on their electronic device, hey, we're here and we did another one as well. So, so through the speaker, yes, thank you for raising that, councelor, and thank you for um flagging that to us yesterday evening. Uh staff, as we explained to you, staff are supposed to do adjacent potholes when they go out. If they see adjacent ones, they are supposed to do them. A reminder was sent to the supervisors this morning, so as part of their tailgate sessions with the crews to remind them that that is that is the practice and that is what they are supposed to do. Okay, I'll take it offline after. I did bring pictures as I promised last night when we were talking after council. Um, and the other thing I wanted to ask about, um, I'm trying to understand the the process. So, like I'll report a pothole. I had one in my ward that was reported. Um, it wasn't filled online. It said completed. When I heard back from uh, transportation services staff, they said that it had been delegated. Somebody from transportation services, I guess, went out, looked at it, and delegated it to another team to come back and fill. But once again, it's marked as completed. I understood at service excellence committee the other day, there's different priorities that you give to potholes, but that's not also reflected when I look up an SRO on 311. So through the speaker, um clearly in that case, it shouldn't have been marked as completed. But I believe that what would have happened in that case was the situation that I just explained to councelor Holiday. Um that inspector would have gone out. they would have deemed the pothole too large or too deep to fill with the cold mix which they carry. So they then would have marked it up and and logged it for a crew to go back subsequently with hot mix to complete the pothole fill. Okay. And just to ask quickly, so that pothole in for example, I sent it in through the 311 app with an with an associated picture. Yeah, that was the last question. staff not look at that picture to determine the pothole, the scope of the problem before they go out through the speaker. They do um but it still helps to go out and look at it physically. Photos can be deceiving in terms of the depth or scale and size of size of the pothole. So, so we do do a physical inspection of them and as I say the inspector if they are able to fill it will fill it with cold mix. Thank you. Councelor Burnside questions. Yeah, thank you through you, Madam Speaker. There been a lot of questions about potholes. Yeah, the speaker. Yes, that's correct. Um would you if I characterize fixing a pothole like putting a band-aid on an injury? Would that be uh fairly accurate with the speaker? Uh yes, that that's correct. Yeah. So, is really the problem not more about the state of good repair of our roads? And and before you answer that, I I'll try to articulate a bit better. Where you have a road that's in a state of good repair, are potholes normally an issue uh through the speaker? No, they're not. Okay. So, the problem here, to be clear, isn't filling 75,000 potholes or a thousand potholes. It's the fact we have to do we that we have all of these potholes. Yeah. Uh through the speaker. Yes. It's it's a function of the fact we have a few billion dollars in backlog of state of good repair. Right. So I I I uh did get some state of good repair numbers from your office. And if we use inflation adjusted dollars, the last year of Mayor Tor's um his last budget, it would be the state of good repair and inflation adjusted dollars was $311 million. I averaged out the next four years because we're going into next year and I understand with FIFA the the budget's a bit lower, next year it's higher. Um it's only $284 million on average. So that would to me would be what's that? A $27,000 million deficit per year on the state of good repair. Yeah. Okay, that's fine. Um, if we actually increased the state of good repair to get back on track like we were uh promised, if we increase the state of good repair keeping in line with our tax increases, my math says $350 million as opposed to the $284 million. So the question is, should we be spending more on the state of good repair? And if you don't want to answer that given the political sensit sensitivity, you can just say I prefer not to answer. Uh to the speaker council, I'll I'll um so short answer is uh it is absolutely imperative that we continue to invest in state repair. I would need to look through the individual numbers associated with the program. I think we've taken significant actions to increase the level of spending on state repair. Uh the last two budgets in a row we've added in in the billions in terms of the total funding. But even with the actions that we've taken in terms of adding funding for our state of good repair, what we're seeing is the backlog continues to grow and that's a product of a lot of our assets were built in the 60s and 70s and are coming to the end of their useful life. Um it's an area of concern that we continue to address through the budget process. It's an area where we continue to focus. Even in the last 10 years alone, we've nearly doubled the size of our capital program with the majority of those funds going towards state good repair. But you do see the the challenges that we see on our road network and our city infrastructure. Sorry, state of good repair of roads or just state of good repair. State of good repair general. Sorry, respectfully through the speaker. I'm talking about roads. I don't want to get the hey look over there about state of good repair and something else respectfully. I'm talking about the state of good repair of roads. Are you telling me that the budget now is more or less in inflationadjusted dollars than it was in the last year of meritori? Uh, so I'll have to review the actual dollars, but we have added far more than inflation to our state of good repair budget citywide. I'll have to look at the particular dollars specifically within transportation services. The largest state of good repair funded project we had was the gardener. That was nearly $2 billion. We took those $2 billion and redirected it to key initiatives where our major challenges are in state of repair. That includes roads. Uh I know there was significant investments made in bridges which were high priority within the transportation network. It includes city facilities, TTC, housing. So those were the major areas where we reinvested those funds. that was coupled with additional capital funding that was directed again to those program areas based on the information uh identified through the asset management plan. Okay. So then then through the speaker because we're kind of all over the map respectfully are you saying that the numbers I got from regarding roads state of good repair related budgets from the transportation department are not accurate or are you not able to answer that? So road specifically, I'd have to get into the actual details. The entire road network capital program has received increased funding when you adjust for the changes associated with the gardener. Well, I recognize it's increased, but um thank you. Thank you, Councelor Thompson. Uh thank you very much, uh speaker, and good morning everyone. uh through you to staff speaker, can you help me to understand the um the birth of a pothole? Um I understand the impact of um freezing um whether thawing and um expansion and so on, but can you help me to understand how are they created through the chair? Um councelor, our roads as they are aging, they they tend to crack. Yep. And throughout the winter season when we have snow or rain, the uh the liquid will make its way through those cracks into the various layers of ashfelt. And depending how much water gets through that layer, it will pond and then overnight typically those temperatures will drop to below freezing, which causes the liquid to change its state to a solid, which pushes up the ashalt. Right. as vehicles uh drive over that uh and in Toronto with a large number of vehicles and a heavy class of vehicles like big trucks, right? That heave in the ashalt will break. Um and then as you have subsequent vehicles driving over that break, it eventually gets larger and larger and that's the essence of a pocket. So I imagine that drainage also has an impact on that in terms of water flow. Would that be correct? Yes, drainage and the slope of the road. Right. That's why we do tend to see a significant number of potholes along the curb line where the concrete curb and gutter meet the ashalt at that scene. Then can you then help me to understand the added aspect with respect to salt its impact on all the things that you already described? Uh yeah. Well, salt will help uh convert the snow to a liquid, right? Um and in that case, it's getting into the cracks uh sooner, right? What I'm trying to get at and and thank you very much for answering the question is that no matter what we do, we will have potholes. Would that be safe to say? That's safe to say. Yes. And so the thought that our roads are so bad they they have potholes everywhere in the wintertime and there is an attribution to a lack of uh care and or lack of investment. um that's not really the true issue. Is that correct? Well, there's a combination of factors. That is definitely a factor. The age of our infrastructure, but not exclusively. That's the point I'm getting at. Uh I I think it's a a function of uh the number of vehicles using our road network, the types of vehicles, right? In addition to the age of the infrastructure, right? So weights of vehicles would create um a is a factor as well that and uh the utility cuts that we're seeing across the road network. They're a large contributor to a deterioration of our road condition. Right. So uh what about the chemical mix with respect to um the asphalt? Is there anything that could be done to create a less sort of permeable um surface to reduce the ability for water to flow in the manner that it does now? Is there something that could be done there? Uh through the chair, uh we're we're constantly working with our peers at the province of Ontario. They develop what's called the Ontario provincial specifications around material. Um, but in addition to that, our asset management group is constantly uh reviewing the industry for improvements in ashalt. I'm asking my question because I really wanted the public to have a better sense of understanding and appreciation as to the formation of potholes and it isn't just by derelict dereliction of our duties why they're coming about. It is something that will happen in a winter country. Would that be correct? It happens in Finland, Sweden, Russia, and everywhere else. Would would I be correct in making that assessment? That's correct. In right across the GTA for that matter, right? We don't have to go that far. So, our objective then is to respond as quickly as we can to address them during the period when uh the thawing occurs because you can't really uh fix potholes in the debt of winter. Would that be correct? uh through the chair. There are occasions where we do get a a bit of a mild winter, but more often than not, the peak is from, you know, end of February, March until June, the end of June. So, the mayor's objective with respect to having a blitz, that's part and parcel of what we have to do in order to ensure we have good maintenance with respect to our roadway considering all the factors which you have indicated as to sort of the sort of birth of potholes through the chair. Yes, blitz are are a great way to uh identify and repair as many potholes as we can in a short period of time. And finally, the objective is that all Torononians have a responsibility to ensure they're reported and we have a responsibility as a city to set up the mechanism where they could be reported so we could respond by fixing them. Would that be correct? That's correct, counselor. And in addition to that we um we do our regular patrols which identify um internally about this year about 95% of the potholes and about 5% are coming through the public through 311. Thank you councelor Bravo through you speaker. Um yeah pothole anxiety is real. So that's why we have so much uh interest here. I think I want to probe further into the causes um not only and a little bit more into the solutions. Um my colleague has already asked about some of the questions I had in relation to salting and also um utility cuts which are in damaging the integrity of of the road surface. But I wanted to probe a little bit about where Toronto sits uh with relation to other cities and and would it surprise you to hear that um for example that and perhaps you know this already that based on reports of this year Ontario and Nova Scotia are the provinces with the greatest number of pothole increases. Is that a surprise to you? Uh through the speaker no that's not a surprise. And is it a surprise to you that um Toronto is in a list of GTA cities, not alone, that other surrounding uh 905 uh municipalities and Hamilton have seen a massive surge as well? Uh through the speaker, yes, I understand that's the case. Yeah. So, we're talking about increases um in terms of the actual appearance of potholes in the 40% range. So, so this is a this is a real problem for particularly Ontario. Ontario ranks number one and the GTA within Ontario um ranks number one. Um and then with all of the activity in Toronto, we we kind of move up the the list as well. Um in addition to the thaw um uh the the freeze and thaw cycle which we've already discussed um compounding the uh the cuts to the roadway by utilities uh and the heavy use of salt in a year we've had record uh amounts of snow. What a winter we've had. We've had single greatest snowfall recorded in one day since we started counting and we've had the warmest March day in history. So I that is a real thing. Uh but I wanted to uh get a little bit further into uh the vehicles themselves. Um I was looking into the the you know the the the weight of vehicles. Um is it accurate that as vehicle weights and sizes increase there's a pressure on the road on the uh road surface and and leads to more potholes through the speaker that would be correct and I understand further that um this increasing size whether it it's not just the F-150s but it's also commercial trucks massive trucks um and that the increase is actually exponential it's not like you add um you make it a little bit bigger and it's just a little bit more impactful. It's actually much heavier. Is that accurate? Yeah. Through the speaker. Yes. Um and and so this is actually and and it's the same for electric buses. They're heavier than hybrid buses. So So one of the things that I think we need to understand collectively is that while potholes are incredibly frustrating, there's a lot of different factors operating here. his like uh climate change uh freeze and thaw cycles, increased use of salt, increased use of uh cuts to the roadway. Councilor Bravo, question please. Um so all of these things together um if we were to say for example look at the solutions like better quality ashalt um there's a significant price to that. Is that is that right? with the speaker. Obviously, we need to look into it in a bit more detail, but yes, I would I would expect there to be a bit of a So, I looked a little bit into this in a very cursory way and I'm no expert. Um, but I I was noticing that typically better quality ashalt cost between 20 to 30% more than the kind of ashalt that we use. That is a significant investment in terms of a capital uh a capital choice that we'd have to make. Correct. through the speaker that that would be correct. Okay. And so over time uh we have not made these proactive upfront investments and now we're catching up in a situation where conditions are far worse. So it's a perfect storm to the speaker. Yes. Thank you. Councelor Mantis. Good morning, Madam Speaker, and through you. First, I would like to um commend the hardworking men and women that uh build our infrastructure and uh do this job on an everyday basis. My question is I'll ask you two questions. Number one, have we changed over the years the composition of the mix of the ashalt that we use or that the suppliers the contractors use uh for the roads? Uh through the speaker. Yes, we have. We've moved further. Councelor Mantis, please can you face me, not behind Madam Speaker? Yeah. Yes. Talk to the mic. You don't have to look at someone when you're asking a question. True enough. True enough. Okay. Okay. Go ahead. Uh through the speaker. Yes. Yes, that's correct. Councelor, we moved to we moved to a uh ashefelt called Super Pave a few years ago. And have we over the years have um I guess the studies that have been done or the monitoring have we indicated if this new uh mix is working or do we need to maybe go back to the old um to the old mix? Uh through the speaker, my understanding is yes, there are benefits that we've seen from the from the changing mix. Um and we continue to explore whether there are other and better mixes available for us to use on our roads. Now, as a suggestion, more than a question, um, are we looking at other technologies or equipment around the world that other countries and other municipalities are using or methods that they are um that they're using for their road operations that we could mimic uh in our city. So, through the speaker, so we do keep a watching brief on what what is going on elsewhere. Um I do understand though there will be a motion coming forward which asks us to conduct a a more formal jurisdictional scan to do just that counselor. Okay. Thank you so much. Okay. Councelor Pruda. Yeah. I apologize if u you've given some of these answers but uh I'm just tuned in kind of thing. How many potholes do we have out there? Lot. Uh through the speaker. That That's an excellent question, council, and one that I I don't have the answer to. Do you know how many we filled, but I don't know how many. Hold on. Last. Let the staff answer the question. Well, he said he doesn't have the answer. I heard the answer. Well, he wasn't finished. He doesn't have the number. I heard the answer. Do you have something else to say? So, so the sort of conventional number and I've been here a few years now that's always sort of been bantied about a year over year is about a million potholes a year corre give or take would that be like a fair ballpark a fair range I know some winters worse than others uh I heard uh uh Mr. Curry's explanation. Freezing and thawing and leakage and water and popping and heavy trucks and lighter trucks and cars eventually they dig a hole. Okay. Would that be like a fair u number about a million? Well, what I can tell you is how many we repair each year and we repair about 257,000 last year. Okay. About 280,000 the year before. Okay. So 280,000 let's say of a million. Okay. So we we repair about a quarter. Okay. And and that that that feels kind of right cuz for every pothole you see filled, there's three or four that are broken, right? As you drive around, right? So what I would say is that we would actively encourage members of the public and and drivers. Can I do have another question? So Okay. Um how many hot boxes have we got? We used to have 2021. Have we bought any more? Um, I don't have that number to hand, counselor. I can get that for you. Um, so, so we, you don't know if we've added to the 202122 that we had at any given time, depending on what was on the road, what was off the road. Um, I don't know off the top of my head, counselor. Besides the hot boxes, the 20 or so hot boxes that we have, besides the hot boxes, um I guess you you can also run uh these blitzes and these these fills uh from flatbed trucks. How many vehicles in total do we have out there uh to do this work? Uh through the speaker, so today we have 70 70 crews out doing potholes. Okay. 70 um 70 crews. So that would mean that 70 vehicles between the hot boxes and the flatbed trucks that you add to the compliment that there's uh uh that there's 70 uh vehicles. So how big is a crew? Uh through the speaker it would be two to three people. Okay. Two to three people. Um okay. Um and and how many potholes uh do these folks do on any given day? Uh through the speaker, I would say we average approximately 2500 a day. A crew does 2500 potholes a day. All crews across those 70 crews. Sorry. Across those 70 crews. Across the 70 crews, we do 2500 a day. Correct. More or less. Okay. Uh All right. Um so up until uh I it was six, seven, eight years ago, we used a mix that contained a large quantity of recycled motor oil in ashalt. Like you're aware of that, right? Through the speaker. Yes, I am. Okay. So, and that recycled motor oil in those in that ashalt mix was making the ashalt uh very brittle and uh and it'll it it made it pop very easily like poop like it could just brittle and it cracks crack water freezing thawing pop right. uh through the speaker. My understanding is there were a number of issues with it, of which that was one. Um if you So, so is there mo is motor oil still going into the ashalt mix that we use currently? Um so maybe I'd ask recycled recycled motor. That was your last question. So through the speaker, as far as I'm aware, no. But I'll just That was your last question. No, I know. And he answered, Am I not correct? We're just talking about a blitz, are we not? Okay. Like, are we talking ashalt? Okay. Do you want to answer that last question because I think we're getting a little bit off topic here. Okay. No, we're not talking about the materials. We're talking about a blitz. So, okay. So, staff can answer your question. Go. So, so through the speaker. So in regards to the use of engine oil in ashvalt cement, we now perform testing of the ashvalt cement to guard against the inclusion of engine oil in that. So there are there's material testing that takes place to make sure that we avoid that occurring. Thank you. Okay, we're talking about the blitz that's that executive committee and what what the recommendation is. Councelor Moyes, you're not going to talk about Ashva. You're gonna talk about the Blitz. I'll try. Okay. Well, that's what's before us. Yes. Yes. Okay, Madam Speaker, um and I'm sorry if this this question has been asked already, but uh how do you determine priority areas as to uh when it comes to um potholes repairs, especially this past winter, we've had potholes across the city, and I know that for many people who are impacted, uh it's important to them, but how do you determine where you um set your your attention through the chair? There's a number of uh factors we use. First, there's a priority ranking system based on the road classification and the severity of the pothole, whether it's going to be uh cause significant damage or not. We use historical data um because we know there's certain areas of the city that have older ashalt that are more susceptible. Um, we apply an equity lens to our program. Um, where we look at those locations where we are providing service in those areas that aren't requesting service for whatever reason. They may not be putting requests in. Um, and we look at those areas as well. We actually go into those targeted areas um where we're not seeing service requests come in because the road is the same age and it's fair to assume that there are potholes in those areas. So, we are uh looking at those areas as well. So the question we're getting at here is that you know for example in downtown core uh many people come into the city right the financial district all these things and and so my sense is that there's a greater need to repair the roads downtown is priority given to the downtown core when it comes to repairing the roads based on the usage uh through the chair priority is uh given to the areas of most need based on service requests. So if an area is seeing more than others, then that area would receive service. Um but we also look at uh given the fact that there's more pedestrians in the downtown core. So you know using crosswalks. So we are definitely looking at those uh with a higher uh frequency than perhaps other parts of the city. So historically then where are most of the service requests coming from? because again people walk through their neighborhoods and streets and that that's we call 311. So uh right now as as far as districts we're seeing a a pretty even spread of between 20 and 25% between Toronto, East York, Atoba Code, North York and the Scar Bro districts. Um but within those areas we do heat map those locations. Um, specifically, I haven't got that map in front of me to to determine right in the downtown core where we have uh more occurring than other locations. Oh, sorry. I'm shared with Ward 12 does see more requests at this present time. Okay. Where's W 12 located? That's Toronto St. Paul's. Okay. Um, so we also have a program that compensate drivers whose vehicles are damaged. Um, and again, we had a pretty bad uh weather event this past year. Have you seen uh that number increase in regards to comp compensating people whose vehicles have been damaged? Um, sorry, councelor. I'd have to defer that to our friends in claims. I I don't know if we're seeing more claims come in right now. I I don't have that information uh through the speaker. So I don't have the exact number but my understanding is yes we have seen an increase in the number of claims that have come in. And does that also include uh pedestrians who's been also been injured I guess falling on our streets or is that just uh vehicles? Um so the claims would cover personal injury as well. I don't know if we've specifically seen an increase in those ones as Miles said. We'd have to ask the claims uh division that. Okay those are my questions. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, we have a lot of items still on the agenda. Members, keep that in mind. Let's go to the speaker's list. Councelor, and please be on topic with your motions, councelor Shen. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a motion if uh the clerks uh can put that up. So, thanks for all the answers uh through you uh madam speaker to the staff for uh all the work that has happened in this unprecedented increase of potholes. Uh there are two areas of concern. Uh there are number of proactive things that could be done as many of the other speakers talked about uh in terms of design materials and uh proactive planning. But there are a couple of areas that I would like to um have a bit more look at. One is uh where the reporting comes from. I understand 5% of the port holes is what we do based on uh initial calls uh from residents, but I'm assuming when those streets are being attended to the percentage increases. So a significant number of pothole repairs still happen through uh complaints and there are certain areas that uh do not engage uh in uh for various reasons including barriers that they do not engage in uh uh contacting 311 for particular uh purposes. And so uh looking at that map and looking at the disparity having a targeted uh way in which people can be informed uh about how they can report uh what are the things that they need to have reporting but also looking at maybe uh much faster way. I know 311 is a faster way but people are now looking for even faster ways of of you know GPS related things or something where you can uh you know report just like how we are drive driving you know it's not an example that I want to give but if you see a object on the on the highway people report it if police is on the so there is other ways of reporting it's much easier for people to kind of uh uh indicate that there is something instead of having to make a a formal u so making reporting ECR is one part of the motion. The second part of the motion and this this has to do with the reporting part is also got to do with access to uh services as well. Uh because we do not want the quality of service or quality of care to be determined by number of complaints that come but that's the reality sometimes and so making sure that more people are able to uh access the complaint mechanisms and reporting mechanisms is important. The second part is about trust. uh a lot of the community members, we might be doing the work and filling thousands and thousands of holes. Uh but it might be helpful for people to have a more transparent process to know what's being done and maybe when they know more they might appreciate some of the work but also might be able to look at any kind of disparity. So uh you know 200,000 300,000 potholes filled and simultaneously tracked would be harder. So I'm asking if it's possible to have the larger size which is categorized by by the people who are experts as shoe box size I I hear so if there are larger ones that are being done and they're being tracked uh from the complaint to the resolution of the issue uh on a on a on an interactive way which the technology that that has improved over time would help communities to understand where things are at and whether something was reported or not reported because sometimes people might think that something was reported and not uh not take into um take steps. So these two two things are kind of a structural improvement to access increasing access uh for people to know how to report but also for people to get some confidence around uh how their uh roads are being taken care of. Thank you. Okay, members, if we can try to rush this. Councelor Myers. Uh, thank you, speaker. I just sent my motion. Does center table have it? Just sent the approval. Okay, we can put the motion on the screen. Okay, there it is. Okay. Trying to read it. Did you want to say something about it? Yes. Uh so city council requests the city manager and the general manager transportation services to create a task force composed of industry leaders, academics and nonprofits associations and other relevant stakeholders to examine the root causes of the deterioration of Toronto's road network including weather patterns, technology, traffic, paving schedules, department organizational and ashvalt mixtures and report back by the first quarter of 2027 to the IEC with a plan to systematically rehabilitate the roads into a state of good repair, including reducing the number potholes after the winter season. Um we've had a very rough winter uh and the roads are in a rough shape as a result of that and residents have been clear that they expect actions from city council. Uh the fixing roads faster program was a great start as 24 local roads accelerated ahead of schedule and the 11 million investment in this year's budget builds on that momentum. But after an especially punishing freeze thaw cycle this winter, we need to be even more proactive. Uh that's why I put forward this motion as I think we really need to get to the root causes of what's causing the road deterioration in our in our city. As someone who grew up in this city, uh we've always had freeze thaw cycles, but we've never had roads in this state of this state of good repair or bad repair if you want to say that. Uh that's not an indication of the staff or their hard work. That's more just a reality of there's a lot of factors happening at once. climate change, end of life cycle. Uh maybe we're not using the right materials, but this is what this motion hopes to do is to really look at this from an from a different level and bring in some different perspectives uh and how we uh solve this issue of the deteriorating roads. I'm pleased to hear from staff already that in the first three months of this year, 601 potholes have been fixed in Scarbor North, which is nearly half of the total potholes that reported in 2027. this in addition to the potholes that have already been addressed through pothole blitzes in my ward and will be addressed on April 9th. And thank you to the staff for coming out to Scarbor North uh when we'll be going back to repairing some roads. Also, thank you to the residents of Scarbor North for not only your patience as we work to repair the roads, but being proactive in reporting more and more potholes to 311. I encourage residents to continue reporting potholes when you see them, especially as we ramp up the to future pothole blitzes throughout the spring. I'm also pleased to see that this motion calls for the use of 311 data and A1 AI tools to drive a smarter ongoing pothole blitz, which is the right approach. It means that we're responding to where the problems actually are, not just where they're uh always been, not just responding to a schedule uh for all that re for all these reasons. I'm happy to support this motion and thank you to my colleagues for the great questions and to the staff for answering them. I think I've learned a lot and this has been a good discussion. Thank you. Councelor Ancy, three minutes clarification of the motion. Uh, thank you, Madam Speaker. Um, councelor Myers, how big do you envision this group to be? I will leave that to the staff's discretion. Um, I it could be five people, it could be 10 people. I know you're a member of the Good Roads Association, so that would be someone on that from that organization, nonprofit would be good. I was also thinking maybe someone from the Toronto Board of Trade. uh we've worked with a lot of academics at TTC as you know to better use AI in how we deal with bus bunching and bus ga uh bus gapping. So there might be a role for academics. So I left it pretty broad but I'll leave it to the staff to decide how big they'd like it to be. Okay. And so you know I'm I sit on the board of directors of the Ontario Good Roads Association. of a staff member. Um, you know, I think it really boils down to two issues, right? Climate change and money. And and I think staff gave an excellent explanation of how potholes are created. And I know they're trying to deal with them. I'm not sure what creating a task force is going to achieve. Well, we haven't really seen a sort of plan how we get us back to where we want to be. I think that's where the conversation was going with a lot of the questions. um how do we get the roads to a state where they're not sort of we're not only filling up 25% of the potholes, but we actually can get a good handle on that. What would be the cost? What would be and then I guess that would be for council to decide what would be the trade-offs in terms of do we want to cut costs? Do we want to um raise property taxes in order to get there? But I think just sort of like putting it on the staff and saying, you know, why are there so many potholes uh isn't fair. And I think it's an opportunity to really look at this from a more systemic approach in terms of how do we get to where we all want to be. Okay. But shouldn't we be doing that during the budget process? No. Uh the budget process I think is often uh we're dealing with a lot of other factors. I think having a number a solid number uh for the budget process in terms of this is how much it would cost and then working that into the budget process would be a better approach rather than trying to figure it out as we go. Okay. And then in terms of using um artificial intelligence and the data that we get provided um there is a new dashboard that our customer service division has just launched. Um have you been using that? Uh have I been personally been using it? No. But I I imagine my residents have been using it. Um so it's only open to counselors at this point. Okay. So I have not been using it. I'm sure it you don't know if your staff are you're not aware if your staff are using it. I'm sure my staff have used it, but I have not personally. Okay. All right. Thank you. That Thank you, Madam Speaker. Councelor Burnside. Clarification of the motion. Yeah. I just want to be clear. So, this mo from reading this motion, I would infer that you don't think staff knows what causes potholes. Is that correct? No. Uh I think there has not been sort of a plan presented as to how we sort of deal with the issues in terms of how do we actually get to the point where we don't have potholes. Not that we don't where we don't have as many potholes and we have sort of a plan to be more proactive. Uh do we do better maintenance? Do we change the ashalt? Uh do we look at AI to change the scheduling? I don't think anyone's sort of done that sort of take a step back and let's look at this from fresh eyes. staff are more reacting to potholes being called in and trying to fix it and trying to catch up, but so nobody's really taken a step back and looked at like what's the plan to get us to say to good repair roads. So, did you ask staff if they've been doing that? Yes, I asked in my questions. That was yesterday. Oh, they must have a short memory. Okay, thanks. Thank you, Councelor Moyes. Clarification of the motion, please. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Um, so you mentioned AI technology on here, and we know that um I didn't mention AI tech. I just said technology. Okay. Technology. And so there are we have TTC transit buses and street cars and will trans right across the city. Do you see this an opportunity where perhaps uh we could use um the TTC um in some way to help us identify where potholes are? Yes. And I believe councelor Chang has a motion to that effect. But he I read his motion. It doesn't mention TTC. Councelor Chang has a motion mentioning TTC spec and buses specifically. Okay, just the buses. Okay. Okay, that's fine. Thank you. Thank you. Council Holiday. Uh, thank you, speaker. Uh, I did have a motion. If I could ask the clerks to put it up. It is a report back request. Uh so it really it builds on the good work of IE17.3 which was considered in 2020 which is a a deep look at our state of good repair backlog on the roads. So the motion does two things. It asks the staff basically for a refresh of that report to come in the first quarter of 2027. Um that's what Mr. Curtis said was doable in my questions and the second part was to give us some options to accelerate the reduction of the backlog. Um, I do believe uh just generally that this has been a particularly bad year for potholes. Uh, many people have experienced it. I'm sure all the counselors have. I know I have. Uh, in many ways, not as a counselor, but just as somebody who's out on the roads. Um, and that is partly due to a number of factors. But what I do worry about is that idea of a runaway train that as time passes, the city's road just seems to be getting worse and worse. And that is not a slight on the good people that work really hard to update our roads to ensure they get patched and ensure that they get paved. It's a discussion about money. It's about how much we're willing to put into this asset. And I've often equated it to an elastic band that um you know the government stretches from time to time to free up money for other places because you can get away with fudging it for a little bit but eventually it catches up to you. And I think that's what we see. And to go back to the other analogy I often like to use, it's like going to the dentist. If you get a cavity and you fill it early, it's a little job and it gets you through the time and your tooth is okay and you can continue to eat and not have pain. But if you allow that cavity to grow and grow and if you allow the potholes to evolve and evolve and the roads to deteriorate, eventually you can't just fill it anymore. You have to do a root canal or you have to replace the tooth. And that's a big job and that's a painful job. And there's a big difference between filling a pothole, resurfacing a road, and reconstructing a road. So I I believe that this is really an important city council discussion. We should turn our minds to this to this asset, to the looking after of this asset and the integrity of this asset. And I do ask that staff provide some additional advice to us about that a little more in depth. And I know that this gets discussed through the debate, but I think that report was excellent. 17.3. You should take a look at it if you're not familiar and uh and take a more comprehensive view about the importance of this asset. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you for being brief. Councelor Aninsley. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Um I'll try to be as brief as possible as well. I want to thank staff for bringing forward this report. Um, I my monthly town hall meetings, the two biggest things I the biggest complaint I get every year is speeding through my residential neighborhoods. And this time of year, the next biggest thing is potholes. Um, I want to thank councelor Thompson for asking staff exactly how a pothole gets evolves into because, you know, you see them everywhere. And one of the reasons why I don't know I think we're getting more uh pothole complaints than we've ever gotten is a because the condition of the roads that's all revolves around money and budgeting and age. I have residents of mine say why do we have so many potholes on some of the side streets and I have a whole conversation about you know 40 year old roads and 30 year old roads and how long they take to to get done. And I I encourage residents, you know, you have many different avenues to to file a pothole complaint through your local counselor, 311. Um, you know, you know, I think that's one of the reasons we have more potholes. Um, I can't support councelor Meyer's uh motion. I think, you know, staff are well aware of how how and why potholes are created. I think most of us in this room know it really boils down to two things. money and climate change. Climate change, the freeze, thaw cycle that we're seeing more and more every spring. Um the budget that our staff have to work with as there more and more potholes are coming up because of that climate change. Um I already said I'm on the board of directors of the Ontario Good Roads Association with one of our city staff. We give a lot of input into the city around minimum maintenance standards. I've raised that a couple of times. I think we need to look at engage the province about how our minimum maintenance standards are dealt with and how they're applied and how they can be revised. Um and our customer service excellence division. Um I also can't support councelor Chan's one of his motions around a heat map. We our customer service uh excellence division under Danielle Sarapim has been doing amazing work creating a dashboard. It's got a heat map in the dashboard. Right now, it's available to all city councilors and your staff to look at around it. It will break down all 311 complaints by ward, by area. You can see them in your ward. You can look at a heat map citywide on how that works. I'd encourage all the counselors to be looking at it, not just for potholes, but all of the information in 311 calls that flow through our 311 center and on. So you can see really what's happening on your ward. It gives a lot of information. It gives annual trends. You can go back to annually 2022. Thank you. With all of the data, it's it's going to be a great tool and resource to use. I encourage everybody to be looking at it. We have reports going into transportation services and 311 around how they're going to be using artificial intelligence to do road work and reporting of data. So once again, I encourage everybody to be using those dashboards. They're live now. I know Miss Sarapim is going to be sending everybody a reminder on how to link into them. So please use them. Thank you. Thank you. Council Chang, can you be brief as well? Well, try please because we have a lot of items. Of course. Of course. So I have a motion. All right. Go ahead. has been pre-irculated and I've worked on with staff and they have their support. So this is to do a jurisdictional scan and research the use of smart technology cameras installed on municipal vehicles to monitor road condition and detect potholes. Also to research new ashvault material innovations and to uh do a costbenefit analysis and to present piloting feasibility of both of these. And you know, I want the city of Toronto to be the city that innovates. I think that we have big problems to solve and we're at a time where new things are developing every day. Uh I read with interest that the University of Waterlue is developing roads with sensors. Uh so early internal cracking can be detected. The city of Durham already has AI tools on their municipal vehicles to prioritize repairs. Um, some people call those vehicles pothole hunters. Uh, there are machines now uh in Vancouver that can repair potholes in minutes instead of hours. They call them pothole killers. In University of UBC, they use uh they're researching the use of shredded tires to make roads more flexible and resistant to cracking. There are also new technology that's called selfhealing pavement um that can actually build a hole without any human intervention. So there's lots happening in the area of innovation and there are municipalities that are adopting these technologies and I think we should not be waiting for them to be proven by other cities. We should get in the front and start piloting them ourselves. work with academic institutions and be a leader and per potentially create new industries that can compete on on the global market. So, I support this uh blitz that we're doing and nothing speaks uh care for people uh when they're driving through our city as smooth roads. When people drive through smooth roads, they feel supported by their city. So, let's work towards that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ring the bells. Let's vote on these motions. Yeah. Okay, members, we're going to be voting. Take your seats. Okay. Who's first? Councelor, if we can put councelor Shan's motion on the screen. Okay. You want to you want to break one and two? Councelory, what you want to Well, I'd like to divide one and two because staff have already created an interactive map that's going to be on the new dashboard. So, you're directing staff to do something that they're already in the process of Okay. So, you want to vote on one first and then two? Yeah. All right. Okay. We'll vote on one. Okay. On favor carried. Okay. Part two. Part two. Did you do we just want to vote on part two? Okay. All in favor carries. I don't know. I have no idea. Okay. Motion two by councelor Myers. Recorded vote on this one. Councelor Shan, please. Motion two does not carry. The vote is 9 to 13. Okay. Okay. Next motion. Councelor Holidayiday's motion on favor carried. Okay, next motion. Uh, counter changed. Item is amended. Who Who wants a recorded vote? Okay, thank you. Recorded vote. Councelor Fletcher, please. Motion four carries. The vote is 19 to five. Yes, councelor Holiday. Uh, thank you, Speaker. I I want to raise a point of privilege. I can't because it's just so noisy. Can I pardon, speaker? We're headed to that. I want to raise the point of privilege. It's important that this chamber remain dignified and members are a able to participate and we're headed in a bad place again uh at this council meeting. What I just saw was two counselors, councelor Aninsley and councelor Shan and Ernest move motions and discuss motions. Councelor Shan wanted a map. What he didn't know uh that councilor Yanay and I knew is that there was a map coming and yet there's this chiding going on because the vote was divided and there was a point to be made and and both people were working in in in a goodstead trying to do the right thing and we're headed again now of people heckling each other and complaining about votes and so on and I'm really worried about it because we're not productive as a council and it appears very poorly to the public and I just hope you can be mindful of that and really members could Thank you. Item is a item is amended. All in favor recorded vote. Councelor Moyes, please. The item as amended, carries unanimously. 24 in favor. Thank you. Councelor Chang, point of order. Yeah, I just want to echo the sentiments of my colleague uh councelor Holiday and you know during my five minutes that I'm allocated to speak, you actually kept on chiding me and interrupting me and I feel like that was disrespectful. So I would appreciate that I would be given the five minutes when I'm speaking and not be interrupted to go faster. Um because we all know we have that five minute limit and we all know we have a huge agenda before us. So, thank you. Well, councelor Chang, as I mentioned, we have a huge agenda and I know that members of council want to finish today. So, I'm I'm trying to get the agenda through and sometimes counselors don't need to speak for five minutes if they make their point. So, we're trying to manage this agenda and so be respectful to other members of council. Thank you. Our next item, councelor Chang. So I also want to welcome in our chamber we have a group of pastors who have been praying for city council uh and they are from churches from across the GTA and they are here or some of them oh they left. Okay. They were here and they saw our great behavior and hopefully we we thank them for their prayers for our city. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Councelor Cheng, I didn't know they were here. We could have made that announcement earlier. That wasn't that information wasn't given to me. So maybe in the future you can give me that information. Correct. Okay. Our next item is uh EX 29.7 Metroink subway program update. Oh, okay. So we'll wait for staff. The staff are here and councelor Fletcher held it down. Councelor Myers. So, good morning, Madam Speaker, and members of council. I rise this morning to Sorry, could I get everyone to please be quiet? Thank you. I rise this morning to honor Leslie Newton Forbes who passed away on January 27th at age 89. Leslie was a de devoted educator, community advocate, and youth mentor. After years of establishing himself as an educator in Trinidad and Tobago, he immigrated to Canada in 1970 and immediately began shaping the multicultural fabric of our city. He spent more than 20 years working for the Toronto District School Board as a teacher, administrator, vice principal, and principal with a focus on special education. He was also a dedicated community leader, serving 15 years as a coach for the Malvin Soccer Club and over five years as a director of the East Scar Bro and Girls Club. Beyond his professional and mentorship accomplishments, Leslie touched countless lives through his unwavering dedication and involvement with Toronto's Caribbean community. For more than 25 years, he played an active role in Caribana and Carnival, serving as chairman twice and CEO and on several occasions help helping to guide the continued growth of the festival. And he was the first chairman to actually raise over a million dollars for the Caribbean Festival. He further contributed to the king and queen of carnival competitions serving as an event coordinator in the mid 2000s helping lead panalive in 2008 and 2009 and supported fashion initiatives beginning in 1994. On behalf of council, we offer our sincere s sympathy to his wife Jean Forbes, his children Doname, Don and Leslie Anne, his stepchildren Paul and Sharon, his grandchildren Manique, Kaden, Garrison, and Marley, and his cherished grandchildren Kai and Ree, as well as many friends, colleagues, and mentees. I'm confident that his legacy will continue to inspire multiculturalism and inclusive inclusivity in Toronto and beyond. Thank you very much. So, do we have any questions on ex 20 uh 20 29.7? Councelor Fletcher, this is your item. Thank you. I believe that councelor Chang has a motion for this. I don't have one. I was hoping I don't know. Councelor Chang hasn't put her name on the motion. Yes, she does. Yeah. This is for questions for staff. Yeah. So, I'm fine. I just am going to uh That's fine. Okay. Councelor Churnis Lane, you have a question? You don't have a motion? I have two quick questions for staff. Okay. Um you will uh folks may remember that um GPS tracking on Metroink's trucks uh was something that this council had asked for um and it is um behind schedule for expansion across Ward 15. It was meant to be completed in January. Currently the pilot is underway for trucks at PA station. Um given we're waiting for this ward um pilot to inform broader recommendations for other Ontario line sites um which will be critical given the scale of construction in my ward and others throughout the city. Uh can you give us a sense of when this pilot will be complete and what's holding things up? Uh just so that the public has clarity on that. Thank you. Uh speaker, we have um consulted with uh Metroinks or we've talked with Metroinks about this and have expressed the concern that was raised by council that uh they are taking much longer to accomplish this the implementation. To answer the question specifically what what they're facing right now. So, so question number one, they the response number one is that they have asked all the contractors across the Ontario line and on the other subway programs to include uh GPS tracking and signage on their trucks. The issue that they're facing right now is that these are all different contracts. They're all different little contracts and what they're trying to do is work their way through it. So in terms of when the timing to actually uh implement this is going to be completed, it's indetermined at this point in time. Okay. I I I would ask um staff to keep pressing on this because this is a really important issue for Torononians and uh for safety sake as well. We agree with you counselor. Okay. Thank you. Uh the report also includes overall figures for local hires about 1300 people. Is there any uh breakdown or sense of where these hires are from and what constitutes local? For example, Metroinks is constructing a station and an elevated guideway in Thorncliffe Park as you know. Um are Thorn and there's also the railard. There's extensive amounts there. Are Thorncliffe Park residents gaining employment from this? Uh speaker uh yes uh we have confirmed with Metroins that there are uh quite a few that are actually coming from the uh Thorncliff Park area but to specifically answer your question how many I do not know. We're going to have to get that information for you. Okay. If you could get that for me that would be appreciated. Thank you so much. Thank you. Councelor Fletcher questions. What's it what's going on? What is going on in the middle of issues? Everybody's popping up to do things. Speaker councelor Puit. So once we finish the questions, I'll come to you if you want to introduce. He wants to introduce the class. Go ahead, councelor Fletcher. Go ahead. Thank you. I'll just follow up on the issue that my colleagues raised about the signage which I believe is now in on the trucks that are leaving the PP and Danforth section or that contractor for the Ontario line. Uh speaker, yes, you are correct. And they're also on the um exhibition place that section in councelor deputy mayor Malik Ward. Correct. Correct. But they haven't been put anywhere else. That is correct. But the GPS, where is the GPS? Only at certain places or is it across all trucks? Uh speaker, uh the GPS is currently only at the uh at the sites within Ward 14, specifically uh the PAPE and uh Broadview site. So the GPS hasn't been expanded to any other sites. So not at this moment. possible for councelor Chernos Lynn to ask to have it expanded at this council meeting. Uh and for the GPS, I understand that there have been eight trucks that the drivers have gone off the hall route and the GPS has found that and Metro links has removed those drivers. Uh to the speaker, yes, you are correct. Just the drivers or the company? Which one? Um, the speaker, I believe it's the it's the drivers, not the company. And are those drivers then driving somewhere else for the Ontario line? Excuse me. I'm sorry. Uh speaker, I would not have I would not have that the whether these drivers are being utilized somewhere else, but you could know that if how somebody could leave a a hall route and think that I I have no idea, right? Why eight drivers since and how long has that GPS been in there? Uh the GPS has been in there since July of last year. So that's not even a year. probably eight months for one a month driver has left the hall route and we know that the whole idea is to establish the hall route, drive the hall route, stay on the hall route because that's what everybody knows uh to be the safest way to handle the large volume of trucks. So that's that's correct. I would be interested to know if they're simply moved to a different segment of the Ontario line and perhaps when you make your next report you can let us know if that happens. Uh speaker I will I'll endeavor to get you this information so that you specifically know the eight drivers if they are being used elsewhere or if they have been completely removed from any of the projects within the I think that's the most important thing. Thank you. I'll speak about that. And then also for the issue of um just the fact that there is congestion in a number of places due to the large volume of trucks and some of the road configuration and councelor Chernos, Lynn and myself, we share the overly bridge which is a pinch point at the north end and people all discuss that. Is that something that our new congest maybe I'll ask the deputy city manager about that whether or not the congestion our chief congestion officer should be having a look at some of the pinch points that are being created by the Ontario line particularly the overly bridge one is that something in the purview of that you'd expect to be in the purview of the CCO speaker that is something the chief congestion officer could look at and it's something I've talked to him about already. So, you've already discussed that because it is causing issues for people going to and forth across Yep. a bridge. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thank you, Councilor Chen. Questions? Thank you through the speaker. So, I recently had a meeting with um people from Metro Links and I asked, "Is there going to be a bathroom in the new stations? Will there be platform edge doors?" And they said, "Well, the city of Toronto hasn't asked us to do this." So I'm just wondering what has to be in place in order for us to have some kind of design standard or requirements or specifications s such that because I think what worries me is that the cost of retroactively installing platform doors is far higher or bathrooms and both bathrooms and platform edge doors should be standard. So, how do we communicate that in a meaningful way to Metroinks? Uh, speaker, the uh best uh way to uh communicate the desire for council to have platform screen edge doors and bathrooms within stations is uh perhaps using the TTC. uh since they are the operators uh of this system eventually it would be better as part of the design development that's going to occur on these stations to ensure that they've communicated the requirements uh that have been established to Metroinks in which case there will be a discussion about kind of what appropriate cost sharing and what um needs to be done in order to incorporate them. But to be clear, uh just to add some additional information, there are bathrooms on the current new stations at the interchange stations and at the terminal stations, right? But um but there aren't are there bathrooms in the non- terminal stations? So all the new stations that are not at exchanges or terminal stations. Um I believe that uh speaker I believe that uh what the TT what Metroinks is doing right now is following the TTC policy and the TTC policy dictates where uh bathrooms should or shouldn't be included within the stations. So if we wanted to see more that would be a TTC policy that would have to change. Uh again, speaker through um it would be best to engage the TTC and and as the operators of the system, they're better off u providing you the details that you would need in order to help you understand what the requirements are and why the decision has been made that way and then it' be up to them to to make the appropriate changes as required. Okay, great. Thank you. Those are my questions. Um thank you. Uh we'll go to the speakers list. Uh councelor Fletcher, you held the item down. Do you want to speak first? Okay, go. I'm happy to speak first. And just on that issue, I think that as councelor Chernos Lin pointed out that the uh signage isn't yet on all of the trucks that are Ontario line trucks and we know that that requirement or request that came from city council to Metroinks was directly because of a very tragic accident where a truck left the hall route and injured a woman in a lifealtering fashion. So that is very unfortunate that that hasn't been done and I know how hard you work in asking them for this and pressing them for this that you're very very committed to safety. I think our staff are extraordinarily committed to safety as far as the Ontario line is concerned and understanding that we are all for expanding transit, but really and truly the situation where you find uh unsafe conditions on the road or just uh neighborhood impact that isn't being taken into consideration. I do want to thank everybody at Transit Expansion for always being willing to take that up and say here's how you should be building that because it's a huge project. I'm very happy that uh deputy mayor has those signs now in that section of the Ontario line and we have it in one little segment of the Ontario line pap. But we do need to have those trucks identified more clearly, particularly when the Riverdale uh intersection opens and now vehicular traffic will be going west on Riverdale because they will be all traveling now to the lake shore or the gardener. And that's one thing. The other is the GPS. It would be great if that was expanded to other areas. We can see how effective that is in having eight drivers found that they're going off the hall route. Our whole intention here and Metro Links has responded albeit uh with the GPS pretty quickly that is to keep drivers keep these huge trucks upwards of 400 trucks a day hauling spoils Mr. to out of various locations in my ward only four there 400 in my ward in our ward in my community and making sure that those trucks are on the hall route that everybody knows which trucks they are metro links knows from the GPS and the community knows because there's a sign that anything that's first of all be careful second you're watching everybody's making sure this is being done as safely as possible possible. So, in all of the Metroink's work, I'd say that road safety, truck safety is really at the forefront of the community desires and I thank you for this update and I'm sure we will be having more of them, but those are the two things that I'd just like to focus on today. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Fletcher. Councelor Prussa, now that we have a break, do you just want to introduce the students that are here? Oh, yes, Speaker. Uh, speaker, please help me welcome the Senica at York Municipal Government Relations class to city hall uh this morning as they join us here in the council chambers. They're led by Professor Andrew Pasque uh who conducts this annual field trip to city hall uh with his class and it is my pleasure to welcome him here. Please take a moment folks. Stand and welcome them here. No. There you go. Thank you. Thank you, speaker. Okay, that's it for the speakers on on the item. Okay. On the item on favor carried. Okay. So, our next item is EX 29.10 FIFA. Now, Deputy Mayor Malik held it down. Do you know if um um does anyone know if she's coming in? Does Okay. Bletcher, then the next then. No, no, no, hold on. Um, no, I'm not saying anything. I I'm just saying we're going to go to the next item, which is ex 29.13. Councelor Myers held it down. Councelor Myers. Bea, we're going to hold it down because the deputy mayor is not here. So, councelor Myers, you held down EX 2913 winter surge capacity. Do you do we have questions to staff? Hold on. Let me get staff down here. Do we have staff? Where is he? So, we're going to EX 2913, members of council, and questions to staff. Councelor Myers, you held the item down. Thank you. Um so through you speaker sorry just pulling up pulling up the item. So regarding the paid surge capacity for sidewalk shoveling this would be done by individuals who live on live on certain streets. Correct. Through the chair. Uh the program hasn't been developed yet. Yes. Uh, so we haven't really shaped where that would come from, like who would be doing the work, but just so I understand it, this would be individuals living on a street who would take it upon themselves to shovel sidewalks during certain snow events. It that could be one potential or it could be a more organized uh database of people that register um across the city. Obviously try to do things neighborhood based, right? So, how would you, for example, we can kind of tell if uh if if a street's been missed, you can call the contractor. Uh if an individual is responsible for um shoveling a street and for whatever reason they don't do it, is there any mechanism that we would have to follow up with that individual or to make sure the contractor gets that street because it was missed by the individual. So miss sidewalks would be the responsibility of the city and would it be either a city crew um to go back or a contracted clue. It wouldn't be necessarily the homeowner. They're really only responsible for less than 2 centimeters of snow when we don't send out our equipment. Okay. And I know there are certain standards for uh accessibility requirements in terms of how we shovel sidewalks to make sure that motorized um wheelchairs or seniors can pass safely. So how would that work? Um our our standard is 2 centimeters of snow. We will initiate our sidewalk clearing program. Um so that that level of snow will provide uh removal, provide mobility. And so would these individuals also be held to that standard of making sure that the the work done would be passable for individuals with motorized vehicles, motorized wheelchairs, andor canes or seniors. Um because the program hasn't been totally flushed out, we're not sure at what level of snow we would actually look to deploy surge staff. Yeah. Um typically, you know, what we see like a 10 or 15 centimeter snow snow event isn't generally the issue. It's when we saw the 60 cm event um in the previous week, the 35 where we have massive accumulations where we're delayed to getting to the sidewalks or we may see some sidewalks get plowed in. Um but typical snow events that's not generally uh an issue. We we generally clear them all. So I guess when you're developing the policy or looking to develop the policy, how will people with disabilities be sort of consulted in terms of the lived experience and making sure that if we do if we do go down this route um that perspective will be taken in uh through the chair. I I I think as we work through it, we could look at a register of some sort, looking at our own databases or people could uh sign up for the program. No, I'm talking about when you're looking at developing the policy itself, how are you going to get the impact of people with disabilities in terms of how the program would actually work if implemented? Right. Oh, sorry, councelor. I understand. So, yeah, there' be consultation. when we come through TAC to talk talk to the committee to see if uh what their thoughts on it and any advice they may have. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you, Councelor Croanti. Uh thank you speaker and uh good morning everyone. I um just wondering just reading the recommendation, how many resources uh and I know it's very early on in the in the game and you're likely uh haven't had a whole lot of time to uh do any analyticals at this point, but what would it take to even develop a program? How many people resources, how much investment do would you and your team have to put into the uh research to develop a program to start with? Speaker, we have absolutely no idea. I can tell you we have no one available at this point who is actually, you know, able to be assigned to this. So, we'll also have to find people to even be assigned to to flush this out. So, I don't have any answer for you as terms of what it might look like. It depends on the size and scope of the program that we come back and recommend, but it's uh uh it's it's got some challenges in terms of how we build the team to even manage this. Okay. And thank you for that answer and I'm not surprised at at how you you uh worded that. Um so also then for my next question in terms of the cost of administering this type of program um do we know at this point what it costs uh the city of New York, Montreal or other cities that have a similar program? have any idea at this point what they're um what they're investing to to uh uh to implement a program like we're suggesting here. So at this point we have we have some information for instance about the increased wage that New York was uh providing on a on an hourly basis but no we don't have full programming costs and the reality is it's different cities it's different programs we'd have to come up with our own costing and how do you um um how do you implement proper oversight on a program like this? So you if you have a thousand people across the city uh shoveling snow in various uh priority areas citywide uh do we send out supervisors to make sure they've completed the work before we pay them? Would you know that at this point? So I don't know that at this point. I can say whenever you are employing people to do work on behalf of the city there would have to be some level of oversight. what that level of oversight is, whether it could be combined with the uh with the ongoing inspection and and supervision that happens on the on the roadways for our contractors and city staff. I don't know. But yes, there would have to be some level of oversight. What we'd also have to have is some type of an intake process. Unlike our own staff who are hired on a more permanent or seasonal basis, these folks would be ad hoc uh uh working with the city. And I expect on a year-by-year basis there'd be a fair bit of turnover as people come in and out of the program. Correct. I mean, you could have 500 people uh one season uh doing this and then the next season you have a new set of uh three, four, 500 people. Correct. Correct. So, this is going to require I think what I'm hearing is additional resources uh which means more administration, more people, more process. There's going to be a cost associated to this and it's likely going to be a significant cost to be able to manage and implement uh program uh like we've seen done in other cities. Yes, there is no budget line for this and just the cost of actually employing individuals to do this obviously is is one cost and then there'll be some administration around it. So we'll have to work out what that looks like. Uh this isn't accounted for within our winter uh budget currently. So uh you know it have to be one of the challenges that we have to overcome as we look at how how we might be able to do this. So would it would it might be wise then rather than continuing to grow the size of government and coming up with new ideas that may have worked in other municipalities. We have no confirmation of it today as we speak and as we stand here today to maybe redirect any of these people resources and funding to uh enhance with the current level of service that we have right now. Well, just to be clear, we don't have anything at all. So, there's nothing to redirect because this program would be an addition in on top of what you will hear from our staff as we come forward. We've kept detailed analysis of what what didn't work this this uh past winter as well as what did work. We will also have some recommendations of some targeted investments we expect for next winter just based on our own program. So, you're quite right. There are a number of needs within our winter services that we'll need to invest in uh to in order to to meet the needs. Not the least of which is the the underlying principle of what this motion is all about, which is we do know when we get overwhelmed with snow, the time to get to some of these critical pieces of infrastructure and clear them uh does take some time. So the idea is is is is there at its core, but how exactly we go at it, we'll have to continue to talk about. Thank you, speaker. Thank you. Councelor Holiday. Thank you. It's very noisy in the chamber, but I'm going to begin. So I to staff, can everyone sit down? It's very noisy. Councelor Peruta, please. Councelor Pastasternac. Thanks, Speaker. Um, does this can the staff tell me what problem this motion is attempting to solve? Just plainly, search capacity is what it says. So in in its um in its purest form when we have challenges in meeting our time standards to clear snow uh this is a this is an idea that would be not unlike the way we used our surge staff internally. This would be a way to bring more uh person power to the ability to clear snow in certain uh targeted areas. Does anyone have any sense of what locations, and I don't mean precise, but type of locations these people would be going to shovel? Is it bus stops? Is it intersections? Is it somebody going down the middle of my street with a shovel? What What is this intended to do? It it it draws it from other cities. So, we got to have some idea. Or do we not? So, scoping it, you've hit on a couple. sidewalks uh and and transit stops would be a couple that make uh some sense. It's actually where we've tried to deploy some surge of our own staff in the in the past as well. It could also be some very targeted uh areas within neighborhoods. Are there any places in this city that do not get snow clearing that these people would go clear snow in already? Are there bus stops that we don't clear? Are there sidewalks that we don't clear that these people would do uh through the chair? All the sidewalk infrastructure is cleared, right? And it's all the roads are plowed as well. And we pay how many hundred million dollars a year to contractors to do that? I mean, it's okay. You don't have to answer lots, right? It's it's it's approximately 145 million. Do I understand? $145 million go to contractors. So, do I understand this motion suggests that although we pay contractors to do this and we have an army of people that manage the contractor and help out, I guess, when they need to that we're going to go and hire more people when those people can't do the job. The checkers checking the checkers that check things, right? Like, is that is that what this is? Why would we pay twice? So I I think if I take the the intent of this, it would be to provide a surge capacity at certain times. So this is not a year round do it every time as you've heard from our staff already. Uh not when we hit 2, 3, 4 cm. We're fine on that. This would be something in extraordinary uh snow situations to try and be faster at getting people what they need. But it is additional resources on top of the resources we already have. But are the contractors going to give us a rebate for the stuff that these people do? No. No. So, we're paying twice. You'd be paying twice for the same service, albeit faster. Yeah. You're paying for speed of execution. That's exactly right. It it says in the the body of the motion that the staff might have some concerns over risks. And I'm sorry I can barely hear myself over the the noise, but um could you give me a sense, you know, without going into camera, what some of the risks and liabilities are with us, I don't know, hiring people through the gig economy to go shovel snow with whatever equipment they scrape up or buy Canadian Tire, I guess. So in in basics, you know, the reality is we're going to be paying people to work on our behalf. That means we take on that risk and liability and and whether you're doing that in a very part-time capacity and a very small capacity or not, you become part of our family. So one of the realities is is that we will have safe health and safety risk. We will have to take on some of the Hold on. Hold on. I'm sorry to interrupt. There's way too much noise. Please members of council take your seat when they're doing work on our behalf. If if work was not to be done a to our standard or b that would damage anything just like our contractors, the city becomes liable for those those types of pieces. So those are a couple of big examples. It's really the HR piece of this that becomes the the legal and liability piece of it. What happens if somebody gets injured? What happens do we around training? uh those types of things that we would have to um address. Th this would represent a contracting out of work, does it not? Uh it could be interpreted that way as well. And that's another risk that uh that exists is our relationship with our labor unions. Right. Organized labor usually raised concerns about the city contracting their work out. Uh they do we have examples where it would be an they were there would need to be an understanding and agreement around how this was going to work. For sure. uh it's not impossible and we have seen examples of this in the past but it is a consideration as well. Uh I'll just ask the last question. What could possibly go wrong? Uh so there are you know advantages around speed. We'd have more people doing work. The disadvantages are that we carry a lot of liability around this uh this work anytime that we're entering into a paid uh relationship with people to do work on behalf of the city. Thank you. Councelor Saxs. Uh yes, thank you. Uh my question to the city manager is about the union. Um we have a unionized workplace. Um what discussions have you had with local 416 about the relationship between these citizen shovelers and the and our relationship with the union? Uh so because it's before us uh it's been extremely limited only to say that they have reached out and said we we need to talk but of course this is before us. So like everything else we've not done the work to build this program nor have we done any work on that front yet until uh the the the outcome of today but uh it's absolutely a piece that we would have to work on and I don't know what the position is at the moment. All right. But for clarity you would support a requirement that you consult the union. Oh absolutely. Yes. Sorry for the chuckle there, but yes, absolutely. Chuckle away. Thank you. Okay. Can we go to speakers? Can we change the screen to see if councelor Myers to speak? Oh, I don't need to speak. Sorry. Item Dem, I just wanted to ask questions. Oh, I got you down here to speak. Okay. Apologies. So, you're not speaking. Okay. Councelor Holiday to speak. Uh, no motion, speaker. Uh, but I would urge members of council to think carefully. I did ask the question tongue and cheek to the city manager. What could possibly go wrong? And we could probably spend a few days talking about that. Um, speaker, I understand the politics and, you know, wanting to signal innovation, but I really, in earnest don't think that this is a good use of staff's time to go down this path because it is so fraught with risk. That's bucket one. Bucket number two is a a more pure principle. If we're out there paying people, contractors over a hundred million dollars a year to do all of this stuff, these are really big operators, and we may or may not be satisfied with what we're seeing for lots of reasons. Whether that's what we ask the contractors to do or whether it's their performance, those are all different things. Why on earth would we go out and hire someone else to do it again? It's paying twice. How could we face constituents and say, "I'm sorry your taxes are going up, but we have all these contracts, but we're gonna pay to do it twice." It's just not logical. I'm sorry, speaker. I can't support this. I would urge council not to uh because the people that would be working on this really need to keep their attention on contract management. And that's just not my idea. That is an idea that has come up over and over again. Have a look at the audit reports. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Saxs. Uh, yes. Thank you. I have a motion and my motion is simply to ask uh to direct the deputy city manager to make sure they talk to our union, Local 416. Um the relationship with our union is central to the operation of the city and they have a legitimate voice in how uh the frontline staff are managed. There is a legitimate question about how work is to be assigned. Are we talking about you know task rabbit? Are we talking about a central dispatch hall? I mean how is this to be managed? Certainly from my constituents point of view um they would agree I think with councelor Holidayiday they don't want their taxes higher but they do want access to be able to get in and out of their homes in extreme weather and I think that there is as as climate breakdown accelerates on the city it makes good sense to think about a way of having a a way to call on the citizens to be of special help in times where we really needed and whether it's going to be snow or flooding or power outages, we know there are going to be more and more extremes. So, I think this is at least worth exploring as long as we don't blow up our relationship with the union while we're doing it. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Burnside. Yeah, thanks through you, Madam Speaker. I think this is a terrible idea. Um, look, New York City doesn't even residents and businesses are responsible for shoveling their snow. That's one of the first problems we mistakes we've made is we've taken on all that responsibility. We need to come back together as a city and have people bear some of that responsibility to themselves. News flash, people don't want tax increases, so maybe they're going to have to start picking up a shovel themselves. But New York City doesn't even have sidewalk plows. So to councelor Holiday's point, we're paying for a service. And if it takes a couple extra days, that's terrible. But these things happen to try to organize whatever crew of snow shovelers who put their name down in October try and find them in December. It's just a disaster waiting to happen. And I know it's trendy to follow other people's trends, but the situations aren't the same. And we just need to move on, get our snow contracts under control, and then I don't think we need to waste everyone's time because there is a cost. And that's the problem, I think, with our council in general. We want reports and we want staff to go down all these holes. Here's the problem. When they go down those holes, they're not doing the other jobs we need them to do. And it's it's just this terrible cycle. So, let's dispel with these crazy thoughts, get back to what we're supposed to do, and we won't need to worry about hiring people on and off throughout the winter. Thank you, Councelor Croanti. Uh speaker, I'm just going to echo the sentiments and comments that we've just been hearing uh from a couple of speakers already. Uh this is a uh this this is a very complex initiative to think that we're going to create uh and maybe continue to grow the size of government, create more costs, put tons of resources behind an idea that may or may not work. I think we're best the intent is right. I think we need to do better in certain areas, especially when we have significant snow events in in our city and we've had them. I think we need need certainly to do better to uh to deliver better core services across the board, but particularly when it comes to snow clearing for accessible for accessibility uh to get to transit to assist seniors. We must improve. We should we're better off to divert our our focus on ensuring that we learn from uh this past season and figure out what can we do differently and better come the next season. if uh god forbid we continue to have these uh you know these type of snow events that need additional attention and resources but uh I think we're just going down uh a rabbit hole. We're going down a very complex uh area here. It's not and we're taking a lot of time from this council I think to do the right thing but this is the wrong way to approach it. Let's get on with the uh important business of the day and get this agenda moving. But this uh motion should be uh uh initiative should be something that should not be supported by uh my colleagues here. Let's move on and um and thank you. That's it. Thank you, Councelor Croanti. And I appreciate that you're looking at getting the agenda done today. Thank you for being brief, councelor Cole. Yes. Uh this is nuts. Uh you know, we tried this before. I remember we tried it. Uh, and uh, I remember getting the calls, you know, the guy that from the city who came to shovel the snow, he just stole all my jewelry. The guy stabbed my dog. Who did you who did you bring to do the shoveling? And, you know, this all started, as I think counselor Burnside said, when we made this magic announcement that we were going to shovel everybody's sidewalk in the city, and that was going to be easy. was another feel-good motion this council passed. Oh, do all the sidewalks. So, what we did is we basically told everybody, you don't have to clean the sidewalk in front of your store, in front of your house. I remember going to the Toronto Dominion Bank in St. Clair there and saying, "For God's sake, can you get somebody pay somebody or one of your staff 25 bucks and shovel the snow?" Oh, no. The city supposed to shovel in front of my bank. That's what we've done. Now all of a sudden we're going to say, "Oh, the old thing, they do it better in Saigon. They do it better in Copenhagen. They do it better in New York. Let's copy what they're doing." And as the general manager said, they're going to go shovel snow and say, "Oh, I wrecked my back shoveling snow for the city. I want to go on compensation. Oh, my shovel broke. The city's got to give me another shovel. This is a bloody mess. Don't go down the stupid road. Let's just make sure that the money and the millions we pay in clearing snow, we get good value for money from the contractors. And no matter what we do, you're going to have these extraordinary weather events. You can't control the incredible weather we had this winter. You can't control by passing silly motions. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Mole. Uh thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to rise to support this motion today and despite some of the comments from my colleagues, um which I appreciate, uh I do understand that it's important for us to innovate and it's important for us to take good ideas forward. Um, we saw more snow this past winter than we've seen in many winters. And we've heard in all experience within our offices. What a challenge it has been um for us to get ahead of the mountains and mountains of ice blocks uh in our in our communities for many many weeks. One of the points of interest and concern on this chamber in this chamber was how long it took to get ahead of the level of snow that we saw. And councelor Deputy Mayor Cole is absolutely right. We can't control the extreme weather events, but we can expect them to continue. And we can continue to look to have good ideas to empower Torononians, especially young people, who have been calling out to this chamber and others for more opportunities um to be involved in their city and to get paid to roll up their sleeves and be part of solutions. So, we don't need to, you know, have a magic bullet here. We can look to other jurisdictions to find out what's working well. How do we do this? We heard about supervision. How do we know things are getting done? It's 2026. We all have a cell phone in our pocket, right? You do a piece of work, you take a picture, you you put it in. Um there's a lot of I think opportunities before us for us to do um some uh due diligence to understand what exists here only in extreme weather temperatures. I think that's the other important thing that the city manager appropriately pointed out. We're not looking to completely upend how we do snow removal in this city. Uh, but I do think it's incumbent on us to look at innovative ideas to empower Torononians, to increase our capacity when it's needed, and to ensure that people have safe and accessible access to our city, um, especially those that are disabled or have other mobility challenges during extreme weather temperatures, which continues to be a challenge for us. Um, so I will be supporting the motion here today, Madam Speaker, and I will leave it there. Thank you so much. Thank you and thank you for being brief. Councelor Posteneck. Uh yes. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise uh to join the uh chorus uh voices against this initiative because the core problem is sharing the workload with stores, with schools, with commercial properties, with apartment buildings, with condo buildings, with factories, galleries, museums, federal institutions, and provincial institutions because most of those are mooches. and they're getting us to to clear the snow in front of their facilities and they're not doing it themselves even though they're legally obligated to do so. So unless there's a better enforcement regime and a better public education system, we will not solve it and we will not solve it with this motion. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, let's put the motions on the screen. Ready to vote. Okay. All in favor here of recorded vote. H. Yeah. Councelor Enley, Councelor Pritza, and Councelor Fletcher, please. Councelor Thompson, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Thank you. And councelor Kandaval, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. Motion one carries. The vote is 21 to five. Okay. Now it's item is amended recorded. Pardon? Sorry members, the voting panel is open again. Thank you. So this is on an item as amended. Councelor Kendville, your vote verbally, please. Uh the negative. Negative. Thank you. The item as amended carries. The vote is 17 to9. We'll go back to EX 29.10 FIFA World Cup. Deputy Mayor Malik, you held the item down. Do you have questions? Um, no questions, just uh an amendment. Does anybody have any questions on the item? EX 29.10 FIFA World Cup. No. Okay. So, Deputy Mayor, can you put your name on the screen, please? Okay. Go ahead. Thank you very much. Um, I just have a very brief amendment. Um this is actually an advisement from staff to um to provide even more specificity and clarity on the direction. Pardon? It's it it's just an amendment to provide more specific. So the amendments on the screen. Yeah. Okay. Then like I said, um we have been working very hard to ensure uh that um the FIFA World Cup is uh an event that has benefits for the city that we feel before, during and after the games. Um and this uh these amendments work to strengthen the information that we are getting from FIFA and our work together to see how those benefits are landing in our communities. That's it. Thank you. So on the amendment, oh, councelor Carol, you have a question. Councelor Carol, ju just a very quick because I noticed we're changing the local procurement to this procurement. Does that unnecessarily impede major procurements or those those are more or less done? I think so. This um this motion is requesting that FIFA share with us the outcomes and and the information about their procurements. So, we do want to be able to get the specificity of local uh procurement um and and workforce development from them. Right. Right. Okay. Thank you. It's just making it very clear what uh what we're looking for in the data that that we hope that they share. Got it. Got it. Thanks, Madam Chair. Thank you. Do you have a question or to speak? Oh, because your name Okay. Yeah. Councelor Thompson. Uh, thank you, Deputy Mayor. I wanted just to ask you a quick question, please. Um, through you, Madam Speaker. Deputy Mayor, um how does um members of the broader community, how do they actually uh participate as part of the local community benefits and procurement process? Are you able to tell folks how they can get involved at this point? Yeah, one of the really important things that um the city staff have been working on is to make sure that all the different aspects of the game, we are connecting with advocates and local communities. I know that the Toronto Community Benefits Network has been at the table around what some of those opportunities are. And I think even um just tomorrow we have uh a youth employment forum related to opportunities that are emerging and um are you know already in play related to the FIFA World Cup and that continues to be our driving effort and we also know uh that FIFA has its own requirements uh to fulfill you know contracts and we want to make sure that in the choices that they're making that they are aligning with our our goals. around that, right? But in the interimm, if there are people out there watching this, for example, and say, "Aha, I'd like to see how I could participate." Um, would it be possible for us to state now, so for example, they could send to any member of council in a specific ward information. They could actually then direct that information to the executive director, Shelon Sharon Balenbach. For example, I'm holding on to something now that was just sent to me. I'm going to direct it to her. I just wanted to make sure that we inform the public that that ability is there if they are not connected for example with the community benefit network and other entities so they could send it to us and we can direct it to the executive director and they can then forward it as part of those and I really appreciate that confirmation and in in the question. Absolutely. That is our shared commitment, not just the city, but as individual counselors as well, that we are connecting members of our community to the opportunities uh that are emerging through our hosting of the FIFA World Cup. And in response to your question, yes, to please uh send us what those um what those opportunities are and for us to stay very close with the with the FIFA Secretariat on how we can action that. Super. Thank you. Thank you, speaker. Thank you. Thank you. On the amendment on favors if any carried item is amended on favor carried. Councelor Fletcher the next item is yours. Councelor Fletcher. So, Councelor Fletcher, we're at AU 11.3, which is the update and a auditor general's office uh 2026 work plan. Do we have any questions? Anybody? Pardon? Auditor's report. You said their work plan. Yeah, you got your name. You held the item down. It's not Yeah, the a smart track work plan. Not their overall work plan, which Well, I have your name on here, so I guess you didn't hold it down. Yes, there's another one about their not just smart track work plan, but a larger work plan, I happen to believe. So, I'm just being clear as to what that is. Thank you. Is it? Yes, I held that down. So, do we have any questions on it? I have a question. Okay. If anybody else has a question, please put their name on the screen. Councelor, what's your question? Do you have your question or not? I I have a because we had quite a rigorous discussion at uh audit committee and I think that council should understand a number of things and one of the there is the confidential report which lists all of the financial obligations correct who's answering this sorry speaker you got to hold my time speaker uh yes the confidential The confidential report includes all the information uh that is uh of a monetary nature. And has any of that ever been public? Uh no. The information that's contained within uh the confidential attachment is intended to be confidential and has not been shared publicly. And that is because because uh there are uh we there is an agreement between the city uh and and the province uh and its agencies with regards to sharing of confidential information that may uh create an issue with regards to uh open bids uh as well as uh potentially prejudice some of the the contracts that are out there. However, there's been so many changes in the original amount to I don't want to go in camera, but I think we have to understand that there's been so much money shuffled around with changes of station. Would you agree on that? Um through the speaker, yes, there has. And we have come back to council uh seeking direct private in confidential. It's always come back confidential. Uh through the through the speaker, yes, you are correct. And was the global number ever public? The global number has been communicated uh on at every time that we've come back to council publicly. I said yes. Yes, it has. So 1.688. That's the public number. Have there been any increases to that number uh through the speaker? No, there has not been any increases to that number and we have been very clear to the province and to metro links that that is the maximum. That was for how many stations? at the at the December uh um sitting of council. That was for three stations originally. How many stations? One, two, three, four, five. Yes. The originally five stations. That's correct. For that amount, 1.688. And now it's three stations for the same amount of money. I'm just without saying where the money's moved. Speaker, correct? Through the speaker, you are correct. So it's the same amount but the delta we are on we do have the deltas here but publicly have is that just remind me if that's in the report that the original amount of 1.688 was the global number for five stations but that amount is now being attributed only to three. Uh speaker yes the report contains this information um in the public report. the public report. Okay. Thank you. And then apparently we signed a NDA of some kind with Metroinks that we wouldn't talk about any of these plans. Do we have the same thing with the TTC? So something isn't going to work. One of the stations isn't going to work. The reasons why it's not going to work, nobody can know. Is that the same approach, the same confidential requirements we have with with the TTC or is it only with Metro Links? Uh, speaker, I'm not sure of what the requirements are with somebody has to know that. Sorry, but chair, do you know there's an awful lot of noise in here? So, does anybody have Somebody on our staff has to know if we sign a confidentiality agreement about whether or not you can or can't build this cover. Does anybody have the answer? Nobody's listening to your question. Well, the city manager, generally speaking, we don't sign NDAs with the TTC. Uh confidentiality is a city agency. There's other things that would cover confidential conversations which wouldn't apply to Metroinks, but generally speaking, NDAs, I've spoken to the city solicitor. it wouldn't be a usual approach. So, if there was a station that the TTC said, "We're putting this in," and then said, "We can't put it in because of X or Y." Do we have a would that be a confidential document or would that be a public explanation of why that can't proceed? So, so speaker, it could be confidential for a variety of reasons, but in terms of signing an NDA, we wouldn't be doing that. It would follow the agency and city council confidentiality approach. I guess I want just to be clear, Madam Speaker, because the TTC is an agent of the city, there are provisions in the city of Toronto Act that permit the city to require information sharing. I'm sorry, I can't hear. There are provisions in the city of Toronto Act that permit the city to require that its agents like the TTC to follow certain policies, procedures that could include some information sharing requirements. So, it's a very different I still know they're all new microphones, but they don't work very well. So, hold my time so I can hear the proper answer. Please chair. It it's a different sort of relationship because the TTC as a city board is an agent of the city. There are provisions in the city of Toronto act that permit the city to require its agents like the TTC to follow policies and procedures that and and that could include such things as information sharing. But we signed off our Thank you. our contribution to Smart Track is our contribution 1.688 688 uh it's not just million I think there's a B there um and within that there was a signing that everything about our contribution and the stations that we are paying for is confidential that we cannot talk about the reasons for anything proceeding or not proceeding that that is confidential that was signed by the city when we turned over our money or said here's our money. Do we normally do that? Um speaker the the provisions the discussion that we've or the agreements that we've entered into uh with the province and with Metroinks with regards to delivery of the smart track station. So, we have a smart track mean agreement that defines what we are allowed to share or not share. And we signed that agreement. Even though it's our money, we signed an agreement that says it's secret. Let's be clear. Yes. Thank you. Secret agreement on our Metroink stations. Thank you, Councelor Myers. Thank you, Speaker. Um, so one thing that I'm just not clear about is when did we get to 100% design on King Liberty and Finch Kennedy? Uh, through the speaker, uh, King Liberty and Finch Kennedy have not reached uh, the issue for construction set a level of design. So what design stage are they at? uh it was in the in the early stages of design when the uh these two stations were removed from the uh smart track program because okay I because I'm looking at the in the confidential materials it says that these stations were quite well ahead in terms of the design uh respectfully speaker I am not going to respond to any question that's considered to be confidential as part of a confidential attachment in public sure I don't want to go on camera um So when did staff know that they wouldn't have the money to build these two stations? Uh through the speaker. We were advised by Metroinks that there was a cost pressure that they were experiencing on the smart track program. Uh as a result of this uh we had some very thorough discussions with uh Metroinks to understand what was what the what the issues were. And when was that? That was in November of 2024. November 2024. Okay. I want to remind member of council if there's any items in the confidential, please don't ask the question in public. I'm not asking anything confidential. You did previously. You did. I didn't ask about the dollar amount. I just asked the the design stage. Um, so okay, November 2024 is when staff learned that they wouldn't that the we didn't have the money to build the two stations. We can't go into at what stage the design at what point uh we got to complete design or we can't discuss that. That's fine. Was there any discussion at any point of including uh at was there any discussion prior to November 2024 that there wouldn't be sufficient funds to complete the stations? Uh speaker can you um please uh rephrase the question? I'm trying to understand where you uh what the question. Prior to uh November 2024, was there any concern from staff that the allocated money would not be enough to complete the all all five stations or were you going on the basis that all five stations would be completed on the money that was allocated through the speaker? Uh prior to uh November 2024, we were under the impression uh we were told, not under the impression, we were told by Metroinks that they would be able to deliver the five stations that had previously been approved by council. And when were you told that? When was the last time you were told that? And was that in writing anywhere or was that a verbal conversation? Um through the speaker. We have we have regular meetings with Metroinks that um speak to kind of the status of the projects that allow us to understand uh their stage uh and to understand what the expenditures are. So these are these are regular standing meetings that we have with them. When was the last meeting that you were told that the money was sufficient to build all five stations? It would have been it would the specific date I wouldn't be able to tell you but the it would have been in the summer of 2024. So, summer 2024 and then months later they come back and say that there's not enough money to build the state. That's correct. And what was staff's response to that? The response through the speaker, the response that came back from Metroinks was that they What was your your staff's response to? We've been told five stations. Now you're telling us four. What was your response to Metroinks? So the the first to provide you a bit of clarity speaker to provide the the clarity to you when we were informed by Metroinks that there was a cost pressure our immediate uh response to them was you need to come back to us and explain to us what do you exactly mean by a cost pressure where is it what stations uh what what has caused this pressure and provide us the details. It took until November for them to kind of come back to us with meaningful information that we could then come back to council and share with council. And did you at any point asked to review their numbers, their assumptions, their cost assumptions? Did you at any point say, "Can we look at these and make sure your numbers are correct or did you just accept what they gave you on face value?" Speaker Speaker, we do not accept at face value what Metroinks uh provides to us. We review the information to the extent that we can review it. Uh and we provide we provide that feedback to Metroinks. We're pushing back on them on kind of areas where we see inconsistencies and that's kind of the back and forth that's occurred and that's the reason why it's taking That was your last question to to have them come back and respond. Deputy Mayor Malik. uh questions. Thank you very much. And just building on my colleague's question, um I want to hear very specifically, are there any other factors outside of cost or cost pressures that have affected this decision? Uh speaker, can you please confirm what decision to to have the change from the amount of um stations that we have in front of us and the way that they are proceeding? Uh speaker, outside of finances, were there other factors um that impacted this decision? Uh speaker, no. the the the significant issue uh and we bra we raised this at the uh council in December was that there was a significant cost pressure that couldn't be uh handled within the budget that has been established within the the costing that's been established. So that's that's the reason why the two stations have been removed. So just to be clear, the costing is it out of line or different from other transit projects of a similar kind of scope? Um speaker um we are we are the most of the transit projects that are occurring are experiencing significant cost pressures. In this case here, the the issue with regards in specifically to King Liberty was that not only was it uh significant cost pressure that the as the the resulting what resulted from that was sorry what caused it uh in part was the fact that excuse me that the uh rail corridor is a super busy rail corridor and all the sequencing and the steps that they needed to do in order to allow for the station to be constructed did added additional costing to the King Liberty station in particular. So there was a a significant technical um sequencing of of activities that needed to occur and that plus the ongoing increases in cost drove up the cost of King Liberty. Okay. So I guess to to rephrase my question, in addition to cost, I also hear you saying that there is a degree of complexity or willingness around certain stations over others that drove this decision. The decision the decision as as I stated previously what I was trying to do is give you some context that the cost pressure in particular on the stations that were removed uh created was caused in part by not only just simply the increase in the in the in the construction costs in industry but also due to the tech technical complexity of these stations. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Councelor Fletcher, you held the item down. Do you want to speak? Can we go to the speakers? Councelor Fletcher to speak. Uh, thank you, speaker. I just um we had a very good discussion at audit and I think we'll continue to have a look at this and I was happy that the deputy mayor asked some of those questions because at audit committee what concerned councilors and I believe you as well Mr. share is where that line why is that confidential? Why is this deep secret? Why is the trans why are these transit decisions being made in um a secret? So I think when we look at the RT in Scar Bro, we know everything. It didn't work. This happened, that happened, etc., etc. We're not going to rebuild it. We can do this. We can do that. That's the level of detail that we're used to hearing. And then if you want to do it again, here's how much it's going to cost. Here's your decisions. Too hard to build, too cost too much money. Once we get to this agreement that was signed many years ago to keep things secret, we actually have no idea. And we could go in camera, but we do have the information in front of us. And it just kind of looks normal. Oh, here's your information. Here's what it's costing from five stations to three. Here's how we're spending our $1.6 billion, but the public and those who follow this kind of information, this transit building, and many do, really don't understand all of the other details. I am concerned. I'm not sure when that was signed and reported to council, and I'm sorry I didn't ask that, but I will be asking the auditor for that later. When that was signed and reported, was it reported that this is a secret agreement or that it is all confidential and nothing can be made public uh except here's the station design once we get to that? I'm not sure. I do want to thank the auditor for her chronology starting in 2015 and forward up that's 11 years on the number of decisions, the number of 22 stations to however many to five to three. It's a bit of a transit scandal in that way. It's a bit of a transit embarrassment. And I do want to thank our chair for the TTC and the TTC. I don't think we don't work like that. We don't work like that. And now I'm quite concerned in seeing that story today. If we all remember smart track was based on the provincial go expansion. It was going to be every five minutes every this many the whole thing the whole system was going to be running and then in an election year it became 22 stations that were actually Ontario go stations and some of them were going to be ours that we're paying for. That's the story. But the transit expansion of GO has now hit a snag. Apparently, according to FOI records and according to media today, they will not be able to move anytime soon to a fiveinut travel time. Nor will it be electrified. I want you to remember transit plans electrification. All the go lines would be electrified. We would have service every five minutes. It would be in and out from the suburbs very quickly. I'm just looking over there. Councelor Thompson, I think you probably remember a number of these things because it's been in front of us for so long. Starting with Chin Councelor Chin Lee, if we can remember that far back and this great idea that hasn't materialized, looks like it's gone off the rails at this point. not going to happen. Our whole smart track was built on that premise, the premise of five minute service. That's why we decided we would build stations on behalf of GO Transit. Those are our stations, our tax dollars, building stations for the province. 1.6 6 billion dollar for a transit plan that actually they're now saying can't be realized. Can't be realized. I'm very concerned about that and I'm sure we'll continue to have these conversations because that was the promise. That's the reason we signed those. That's the reason we said we would take on stations and build them. And yet what we're finding out now is the entire premise for our contribution to the GO expansion and electrification cannot be met. Okay. Thank you. Councelor Holiday. Uh thank you speaker. I have a very brief motion. If I could ask the clerk to present it, display it. So, I'll read it. The city council requests the integrity commissioner to investigate the apparent release of confidential information to the media from item 2026 AU 11.3 update on auditor general's office 2026 work plan related to city council request for smart track investigation. Uh members, councelor Fletcher has talked to us about the discussion that occurred at the audit committee meeting and there were a lot of questions including those around the confidential materials that were attached to this document, this audit item. Um I must let you know that the Toronto Star published a story on February 23rd. It was titled Metro Links and the city spent nearly 100 million on smart track stations that may never be built documents reveal. And in the story um the star uh says that they have viewed a copy of the document and I find that concerning uh because that material was confidential and was available to the committee members if not members of council and I think that it is uh the duty of council to turn its mind to a situation such as that and ask that it be investigated. Uh, and therefore I ask that you support this motion. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Myers. Thank you, Speaker. I have a few motions. If you could just put them on the screen, please. So the first motion, city council requests Metroinks to provide to the auditor general all relevant data and documentation so that the audit of the smart track investigation can proceed. Uh the second motion, city council requests that the auditor general of Ontario to conduct an audit of the smart track program. And third, city council direct the city manager and the chief financial officer and treasurer to report back on a framework to for future capital agreements with third parties to ensure that appropriate audit rights be included in all future capital agreements with third parties in which the city is providing a significant amount of uh capital funding. I think these are pretty self-explanatory. I also want to thank my colleague councelor Holidayiday uh for putting that motion forward. I think this does need to be investigated by the in the integrity commissioner in terms of we can't keep having these situations occur where we're getting confidential information and then we're seeing it on the front page of the newspaper. Uh Madam Speaker, I've also submitted a written statement on this item, so I'll be brief. Uh the residents of Scarbor North and taxpayers across Toronto want to know how their tax dollars are being spent and when h when hundreds of millions of dollars are involved, simply saying trust us is not good enough. I understand that the auditor general's hands here are tied without an audit clause in their agreement with Metroinks and that is part of the problem the larger issue of this whole agreement. No serious financial agreement in the public or private sector would permit this level of expenditure without audit rights or some sort of uh ability for the overseers to get into more granular deal details and to find out what exactly was happening. We've uh we've heard an explanation, but again, it's it's not satisfying to a lot of us on this side of the the chamber. Uh we need to fix this going forward, and I'm glad this council is moving in that direction. I also say one, you know, final thing. You know, it's really sad that we spent so much money on this program while we allow the TTC to deteriorate to the state that it is. You know, we talk about platform edge doors, police officers, security cameras. Think what we could have done with $1.5 billion dollars had we just focused that on the TTC, fixed what we already own, maintained it, paid our employees properly, and really invested in creating the great system and instead we spent it on this uh with very little to show for it. Three station at the end of the day, uh which really should be paid by the province because this is their asset. So, I'd just like to leave it on that commentary, of course, and I'll be supporting uh the recommendations and I'll continue to push for transparency that our residents deserve. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Bravo. I think we have time. If uh after you speak, we can uh deal with this item before lunch. Councelor Bravo, this is a real scandal. I think we've heard from every speaker today. um property tax dollars that should have been invested in the city of Toronto went into a fictional plan called Smart Track, which was essentially to subsidize a provincial transit plan that cannot materialize. In the meantime, TTC was left to crumble, neglected, the RT derailed because of lack of capital investments, hurting people, harming people. That's a real safety risk. Signals uh aren't working. Tracks need to be upgraded and there's so many more things that have to be fixed here. Um residents want answers and they rightfully want answers from us and we are in Davenport impacted all the time by this project. Uh Metro links smart track smart track and it's very difficult to provide the answers because the agreements were designed to be secretive. The agreements were designed to be unaccountable, not transparent. And so we have public servants here before us today, but they're the wrong people to provide the answers because they are bound to not provide those answers in public. It's a very challenging thing for them to constantly be hearing our questions and to and have to say no and explain away uh decisions that were made politically to tie this up in a way that there is no sunshine on these agreements. Um, I I really want to thank uh all of the efforts that have been made by my colleagues and the chair of TTC for moving forward on requesting much more information so that the public can understand what we got into here, why, and h and how much of a failure it is in terms of public investment, fiscal prudence, and responsibility. And and I just want to conclude by saying that it's a good reminder that election campaigns are absolutely the worst time to make plans to deliver really good public transit. Yeah. So let's do it in an organized way, in a public way, in a studied way, and stop making promises to people that that can't be delivered. Uh because uh the public can't wait. And uh creating fictions like this are just so incredibly damaging and scandalous. Okay, ready to vote. Okay, on motion. Okay, on councelor Holidayiday's motion on favor. Opposed if any carried. Thank you. Councelor Meyers motion. Well, you're not even at your seat. Councelor Peruta, how can you ask for a recorded vote when you're not even sitting? What is it? Which one do you want a recorded vote on? Councelor Myers motion. Okay. Recorded vote on councelor Meyer's motion. Councelor Aninsley, please. Councelor Pastern. Thank you. Councelor Thompson, please. Motion two carries. The vote is 24 to one. It item as amended on favor. Okay. Recorded vote. Councelor Pra. Councelor Matlo and Councelor Fletcher, please. Councelor Fletcher, please. And councelor Matlo, your vote verbally, please. in favor. Thank you. The item is amended. Carries unanimously. 25 in favor. Before we break, councelor Aninsley, you just wish to make an announcement. I do, Madam Speaker. I'd just like to say before we break, I'd like to invite members of council to visit upstairs over the lunch period the AI project showcase uh which features the mayor's AI awards recipients located in the members lounge while you have the opportunity to see how the city learns that we're using artificial intelligence and data to improve city services. Thank you. We'll recess. Okay, just a sec. Just asking for a little help. I left my phone somewhere in this chamber. So, if anybody sees a phone with my You see a phone with my handsome grandson on the screen? Yes. Thank you. Okay, we're recessed to 2:00. This meeting is now resumed. Members, we do have a presentation this afternoon to recognize the recipients of the mayor's AI awards. I would like to call upon Mayor Chell to speak. Good afternoon, members of council. I hope some of you been able to visit the AI project showcase just at around lunchtime. Might not be too late to check it out and councelor Aninsley and I want to encourage you to do so. What you saw there was not just technology but civil servants. They used modern tools to make everyday experience simpler, faster, and more effective for city residents. The projects being recognized are priority initiatives because they deliver real public value and reflect council approved priorities. These projects teams are with us today and we are very proud of their accomplishment. Their work reflects what's possible when technology supports not replace the people who serve our city. I want to acknowledge the leadership, the collaboration and the dedication that brought these projects to life and their imagination because uh you imagine what's possible and you're brave and daring to try it out and this is the result you see. The first one, the data enabled recreation planning project use real time data and predictive insights to help city of Toronto understand how residents use recreational services by grounding planning decisions in lift patterns and local needs. This initiative allows the city to plan for programming that is more responsive and aligned with local communities, their priorities, making sure that recreation programs deliver meaningful impact where it matters the most. Second project, 311. It handles more than 1.3 million interactions with residents each year. The 311 virtual assistant will make sure that residents can get clear accurate answer at every hour connecting them to city services without unnecessarily a lot of friction. Okay. Technological services receive over 150,000 service requests and this is number three projects. 150,000 service requests annually. They come from city staff. Okay. Tech Assist will improve how city staff access technical support like when your computer locks you out and it deliver. Okay, some of you already said yes. Yes. Uh delivering faster answers to common questions and freeing up service desk capacity to resolve the more complex issues ultimately strengthening service delivery for the public. The fourth one, Toronto building processes approximately 40,000 permit applications each year and each require many technical documents to be reviewed for permits to be issued. The building permit application pre-check helps applicants get it right the first time by identifying key or any missing information and possible issues. It can even look at your drawing and say, "Wait a second, this doesn't make sense. Can you give it another try?" Or you might have missed your last name in the application or the license number. all of it would be there and so that when you submit it you don't have to go back and forth then there's less delay and helping housing move faster uh from plans to reality which is phenomenal. I've been told that when we launch this uh later this year it will be 50% faster. We are already faster than ever before. Right? We are now getting it done so quickly is incredible. It's going to be faster and I think it's going to be fastest in Canada and maybe even more. We shall see once we launch this one. I want to thank um a very special co a former colleague of mine. I don't know whether he he went back to class. Yes. Um this is former colleague counselor David Saki who has been working hard on my behalf on the many issues one of which is the AI uh technology how we could use technology and it was his suggestion that we should do an mayor's AI award to encourage uh different uh different departments competing and really reaching for the best and that is uh what we have today. I just want to give a shout out to uh former counselor David Saki. I also want to give a shout out to councelor Lily Chang because after she came back from a trip overseas, she has been relentless saying, "Hey, why aren't we doing that technologically? Why can't we do this? Why can we we saw all this happening? Why can't we do more?" for and she's been relentlessly pushing us to do so. And look, we are doing it. I'm glad councelor Chang, you had some a bit of time and uh looking through all of those very impressive uh models out there. So, we will now play a short video that highlights each of the four selected projects. And after the video, uh, Deputy Mayor Paul Aninsley will come up to say a few words about the projects who received the mayor's AI award. Okay, here is here are the Yep. Yep. Here's the video. Across the city of Toronto, divisions are exploring new ways to use data and artificial intelligence to improve services for residents and support the teams who deliver them every day. This year, four projects were selected as the city's priority AI initiatives chosen for their potential to deliver clear, responsible, and meaningful enhancements to public service. These teams are now being recognized by the mayor for their leadership, creativity, and dedication. Their work shows that AI is not about replacing people. It's about empowering them. It's about giving staff better tools to help build a modern city that delivers for all residents. Each of these four initiatives began with a clear service challenge and a commitment to design practical, responsible solutions that support both residents and staff. Data enabled recreation planning. This year, Parks and Recreation will be the first division to utilize this platform with a new integrated data foundation delivered to support its programs and services. This dashboard will provide a clear, consolidated view of how residents will be using recreation programs and services by bringing real-time information into one place. It will give city teams a practical, easy-touse view of activity on the ground. It will also be the first data set onboarded to the Toronto data platform, establishing a foundational use case for a centralized hub for city data. Staff will be able to respond more efficiently to resident questions, identify trends, and align resources based on demand. Most importantly, the dashboard will help the city respond more effectively to local needs. Looking ahead, this data foundation will enable future enhancements, including the integration of demographic, public opinion, and facility condition data. enhanced planning and forecasting capabilities and the responsible use of AI. Together, these advancements will further support improved recreation experiences for residents. 311 virtual assistant to help residents get faster, clearer answers. 311 is introducing two new AI enabled tools. A research assistant that helps staff quickly search thousands of articles and a public chatbot available 24/7 on toronto.ca/311. These tools make information easier to find, reduce repetitive searching, and help residents reach the right service request quickly. The AI research assistant now does the research for them. So, anything that they're looking for, they're going to find a lot quicker, and the information that they're going to be providing to the caller is going to be a lot more accurate and consistent. Pilot CSRs are um have been very positive in regards to the experience they've had with it. uh as well have identified that it is uh a lot more consistent and they're spending a lot less time trying to find the information. Tech Assist IT virtual assistant. Tech Assist gives IT staff one simple place to ask technical questions and get accurate support using Microsoft Copilot and Service Now. It reduces wait times for common issues and free service desk agents to focus on more complex work, improving service quality for thousands of city employees. So we're trying to uplift the entire user experience of how the users reach out to service desk. Right now there's no single unified uh gateway. Uh either they can reach out via email or via phone. Uh so this interface will provide them a single entry and then it will have an AI layer at the top. Uh it will look for those questions in the internal knowledge bases first before routing it to the service desk. Building permit application pre-check. Toronto Building is piloting an AI tool that helps applicants identify missing information and basic zoning or code issues before submitting a permit by improving application quality from the start. Staff can begin their review sooner, supporting faster and more predictable housing approvals across the city. I think the biggest challenge with an AI project like this is uh how to address uh concerns that this is replacing humans in the decision-m process. Our goal with this project is to look for those common issues that slow down the process and to be able to help examiners to do their work more effectively, help them find information within the submission package to help them uh identify common issues so that they can provide their response more quickly. So keeping uh uh keeping humans in the loop of the process and working as an assist of technology rather than the appearance that AI is making the decision. It's more of a assisted tool. It's not a replacement tool in this regard. It assists the applicants as well as staff uh to move applications through the pipeline and allow staff to do uh value added work and take them away from the the mundane or the small aspects. that the oversight is always there by the the individual uh the human uh in the loop to ensure that things have been done correctly and clearly. While these projects are unique, they share a common goal. Improving the day-to-day experiences of the people who rely on city services and the employees who deliver them. As this work continues, the city remains committed to responsible, transparent, and people centered use of technology. and Mayor Chow, thank you very much for all your leadership and vision for the the Mayor's AI Awards and getting us today where we are. Thank you so much. And thank you to my colleagues who took the time today to visit the mayor's AI awards project showcase upstairs in the members lounge. those that were able to speak with staff and see firsthand the amazing work being done across all all of our city departments. As a as a resident, a city councelor, and the chair of the general government committee, I've always believed this digital transformation isn't about technology for technologies sake. It's about people. It's about making sure government works better, works faster, but more importantly, that works for everyone, no matter who they are or where they live in the city of Toronto. What we saw today in the members lounge is exactly why city council supported the mayor's AI awards. These projects show us what happens when we pair good ideas with public service values and a clear sense of purpose. They demonstrate that when we adopt technology thoughtfully, we deliver better services, remove barriers, and make everyday interactions with the city of Toronto and its residents more human. To the teams being recognized today, thank you. And we have a full gallery here that need a round of applause. I can't thank each and every one of you enough for all of the work that you've done in moving the city of Toronto forward with technology. You're helping us modernize how we serve and you're doing it responsibly and with public interest front and center. You're helping us to modernize who we serve. you're doing it responsibly with the sorry and to my colleagues we support this kind of innovation. When we give people the space to imagine what's possible, we're better prepared to meet the expectations of residents who count on us. Congratulations once again to everybody for the first annual mayor's awards recipients. I look forward to seeing how this work continues to grow and strengthen our city each and every year. Thank you so much. Thank you and congratulations. Uh Deputy Mayor Malik, you have an announcement to make, an introduction. Um, thank you very much. Well, first of all, congratulations again to the AI awards recipients. That is uh pretty spectacular. And I am really actually glad that our guests got to experience and see that. Uh today, I'd like us to warmly welcome students from no northeastern university Toronto um who are here visiting city hall. And I want to thank Tamara Estwick, the global learner support specialist at the university for coordinating this visit. And I want to share with you a little bit of what Tamara shared with me about what the experience is and um has been for students here. The purpose is to understand the importance of civic engagement and the functions of city government to learn about the city programs and services and to witness democracy and action. And I'm so glad they've gotten to do that all even just from this short time visiting the council chambers. Can we give them give them a round of applause and a warm welcome? Thank you and welcome. Before we start the Bever motion run through, I would take the release of holds. The clerk will open the speakers list and CMP and you can place your name on the list. Any releases. Okay. Oh, councelor, hold on. Councelor Bravo. Yes, I have a point of personal privilege. Uh, speaker. Um, and thank you for the opportunity. Uh, March 24th was the 50th anniversary of the military coup in Argentina. It uh was a taking up of arms against democratically elected representatives, which is an assault on democracy itself. Mayor Child proclaimed this day uh because it is a day to uphold human rights and to remember uh all of the horrors that followed. 30,000 people disappeared. Thousands of people were exiled. Thousands more imprisoned. But there's one particularly horrifying practice that I want to talk about today. 400 infants were stolen from their mothers in captivity. And this was in part justified as extinguishing the beliefs of their opponents. by taking the children. Marcela Solson was among them and she is here with us today. Marcela was born sometime in late May and early June of 1977. She was taken from her mother and placed with a family. Her mother remains among the detained and disappeared. For decades, mothers and grandmothers of Pla de Mayo searched for Marcela and she has now been reunited with her family of birth. While 1,200 people were convicted and many sentenced to long imprisonment, we must never forget these chapters in global history. And I want to say today that it's particularly important for Canadians and the crisis we face globally to call that this uh situation is something that stands as a reminder and as a lesson. It comes to it brings to mind to me the abductions of indigenous children placed in residential schools also to extinguish something essential in them. And I was happy to have lunch with Marcela and community leaders and to learn that she has been meeting with indigenous uh leaders here in Ontario. Marcela and Argentinians were subjected to was a result of interference by the United States and these threats have been made against Canada too by President Trump. We must be weary of words like regime change and like in Chile where I was born where there was also a military coup or today in Cuba and so many others incidents that have happened in Latin American on the continent. National sovereignty upholding democracy and respect for human rights have to be universal values. So gracias Marcela for your courage for the tour that you're on all of the events that have uh happened this week and have been so valued in the Latin American community. Thank you to the community leaders who have brought this forward. Uh you can visit the rotunda downstairs and learn more. Thank you for making this happen. And thank you to all the human rights campaigners all over the world today. Thank you. Thank you. Quick releases. Councelor Perks. Uh I'm going to try a couple. Uh first, PH28.8, Eight, a shared vision to create more affordable and supportive homes and sustain community networks in South Parkdale. Okay, just a sec. PH28.8. Yep. Okay. You would like to release? Yes, please. Okay. On favor carried. And also, I'd like to try PH28.7, Advancing Partnerships. Oh, okay. Not quick. Okay. Nobody has any other quick releases. Okay. Councelor Croanti. Uh yes, Speaker. Thank you. So 27.16 um programmatic approach to delivering state of good repair. I'm releasing that item. Okay. Just a sec. Okay. 20 GD 27.16. Correct. Councelor Canti is releasing. Thank you. Favor carried. Nobody else wants to release anything. Councelor posture. Yes. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'd be prepared to release 27.8. Okay. Just just sec. Let me find it. Okay. IE27.8 uh tree bylaw re review report with a recorded vote on recommendation number two. Okay, I'll continue to hold it. Any other quick releases? Come on, members of council. We need to get this agenda done. All right. Okay, members, we will now do the members uh motion run through. The city clerk is advised that financial impacts summary sheet for member motions MM39.1, MM39.74 from the chief financial officer and treasurer has been posted with agenda item RM33.7. Review of the order paper mm 39.1. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. A communication has been submitted on this item. All in favor carried. That's for the referral on the item on favor carried. Mm 39.2. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. A communication has been submitted on this item. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item. All in favor carried. And ma'am, councelor Saxs. Thank you. Just before we deal with the next item, if I could take one moment, I want to acknowledge the leadership of the two cultural gems that we're going to be dealing with in next item that they've come to the council chamber today. Laurianne Goodwin from Trans, April Hen from the Al Green Theater. really important cultural gems in Ward 11 and in our city. Um, and we're able to give them a revitalization that was not accessible any other way. Thank you. Thank you. MM39.3 Notice of this motion is has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All favor of waving referral. carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 39.4. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM39.5 Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item. On favor carried pardon item, please hold it down till later. Number six. Well, we have to introduce it first. Okay. Introduce it please. Thank you. Okay. Mm 39.6. This motion is subject to um uh referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried. So you would like to hold the item down. Councelor Sachs. Okay. Whose phone is that? MM39.7. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the Toronto and New York Community Council. Twothirds vote required to wave referral. All favor of waving referral. Carried on the item. On favor carried. MM39.8 Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 39.9. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 39.10. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral. Carried. On the item on favor carried. Okay. Yeah, we'll be back tomorrow. Mm 3911. Yeah, she's holding it. Looks like we're back tomorrow. Mm 3911. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3912. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to a referral. The revised member motion was posted on March 24th. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item. On favor carried mm 3913. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the planning and housing committee. A twothird vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried. What does the staff have it? Does the staff have the minor amendment? No. Okay. MM3914. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A two/3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3915. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the exe executive committee. A twothird vote is required to wave referral. A revised member motion was posted on March 24th. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item. On favor carried mm 39.16. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A two-third vote is required to wave referral. A revised motion was posted on March 24th. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3917. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. On favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried mm 3918. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item. On favor carried. MM3919. Notice that this motion is has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM3920 notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to reopening of item 2025 T20 23 22.3 only as it pertains to part six and 8 of the decision. A twothirds vote is required to open that item. If reopened, the previous council decision remains in force unless council decides otherwise. On favor of reopening carried on the item on favor, carry mm 3921. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion subject to the Toronto and East York Community Council. Twoth3 vot is required to wave referral. On favor waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM3922. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral. Carried. On the item on favor carried. MM3923. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothird vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3924. Ditto. Can I just say ditto? No, I have to read it out. I have to read it out. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the general government committee of two/3 voters required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3925 has been withdrawn. Mm 3926. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the Toronto East York Community Council. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3927. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of way being recorded. I think there's an amendment. Is there an amendment coming forward for this one? Yeah. But I understand that there's an amendment made on this one. So, we'll hold it down. We'll hold it. Councelor Aninsley and councelor Canti, please. Council Chrysanti, please and councelor Cole, your vote verbally, please. Uh, affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The motion to wave referral carries. The vote is 22 to 4. Was there was there an amend amendment made on this item? Did you receive an amendment? Yeah, we're going to hold it. Yeah, we're holding it. Yes, councelor Pa. Mm 3928. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to reopening of item 2025T 20 2133. A twothirds vote is required to reopen that item if reopened. The previous council decision remains in force unless council decides otherwise. All favorable of reopening carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3929. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the atobico York committee council. Twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on on the item. On favor carried. Oh, it's this one here that has an amendment. Mm 3930. Yes, I have a minor amendment. Yeah, just a sec. Let us uh let us uh I don't have this. You don't have it yet? I don't have it. It's not ready. Okay, we'll hold it. Well, let's let's wave referral first. All in favor of waving referral carried. Councelor Cole will hold the item down in your name. Thank you. Mm 3931. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the North York Committee Council. Twothirds vote is required to wave referral. This motion relates to a Toronto local appeal body hearing and has been deemed urgent. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM3932. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the Toronto and East York Committee Council. Twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. This motion relates to Toronto local appeal body. Hearing has been deemed urgent. All in favor of waving referral. Carried on the item on favor carried MM3933. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion subject to referral to the executive committee. A two/3 vote is required to wave referral. All favor of waving referral. Carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 39.34. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothird vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral. carried on the item. On favor carried mm 3935 notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to a referral. All in favor of waving referral. Pardon? Recorded vote. I know he Councelor Cole, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The motion to wave referral carries. The vote is 22 to four. You're going to hold a Does the staff have it? Does the staff have the quick amendment? Okay. So, councelor Thompson, do you want to Okay, I'll hold it. I'll hold it. I'll hold it. Councelor Pastnike, do you want to hold? We No, I know. Councelor Thompson. So, you want to You're agreeing to hold it. You don't want to move the amendment mm third mm 3936 notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the planning housing committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item. On favor, councelor perks would like to hold it. MM3937. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion subject to referral to the economic and community development committee at two/3 votus required to wave referral. All favor of waving referral. Carried. On the item on favor carried mm 3938. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the economic and development committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral. Carried. On the item on favor carried. MM3939. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the economic and community development committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM3940. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to the planning and housing committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item. On favor carried mm 3941 notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the atobico council. Twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. This motion relates to Toronto local appeal body hearing has been deemed urgent. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3942. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the infrastructure environment committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on who said that? Councelor Perks on the item. No, he wants to hold the item down. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said hold it down. Okay. U recorded vote. Sorry, I didn't hear that. item on the item. Yes. Council Tennis, please. Councelor Cole, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The item carries. The vote is 20 to four. Mm 3943. Um, on this motion, um, I've reviewed this motion, MM3943 from councelor, uh, Chang based on two grounds, overriding delegated authority and seeking to establish policy beyond the jurisdiction of city of Toronto. In 1999, city council delegated authority for all flag raisings to the chief of protocol. City Council would need to first amend the delegated authorities for a motion on a specific flag would be in order. Additionally, under the procedure bylaw motion is out of order for relates to a matter that is beyond council's authority. The federal government does not use or recognize the historic lion and sun flag in reference to Iran. Council cannot make a determination that is within the jurisdiction of Global Affairs Canada. For these reasons, I ru I rule MM3943 out of order. No, I brewed it out of border. Councelor Cheng, I I I brew I ruled it out of order. Oh, councelor Chang on this. Yes. I just want to say that uh I understand that um we're moving this out of order and I uh I don't think this reflects the heart of many council members. This is not out of I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Council Chang. I've ruled it out of order. It's not on the floor. Mm 3944. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the North York Committee Council. Twoth3 votes are required to wave referral. This motion relates to a Toronto local appeal body and has been deemed urgent. On favor of waving referral carried on the on the item on favor carried. MM3945. We're at 45. Correct. Yeah. Mm 3945. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion subject to referral to the infrastructure environ environment committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of way recorded vote on we bean referral. Okay. Recorded vote. Councelor Chang and Councelor Sachs, please. Councelor Pastorneck, councelor Matlo, councelor Cole, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The motion to wave referral carries. The vote is 22 to 4. recorded vote on the item. Pardon? Okay, but we're just voting on the item. Did you want It's on the vote. Uh point of order, Madam Speaker. I would like a record to record one and two separately from three. I can't support one and two. You want to vote on one, two separately? Correct. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Councelor Pa and Councelor Fletcher, please. Councelor Cannaval, Councelor Chosin, please. Councelor Cole, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. Parts one and two carry. The vote is 22 to four. Okay. Did you want to record a vote on three? Councelor Holidayiday. No. Okay. Item is amend. Balance of the item. On favor carry. MM3946. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to reopen of item uh 2025 CC3519. A twothirds vote is required to reopen that item if reopened. The previous council decision remains in force unless council debates otherwise. All in favor of reopening carried on the item. On favor carried MM3947 notice of this motion has been given. This motion subject to referral to the planning and housing committee at two/3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried mm 3948 notice of this motion has been given. This motion is is subject to referral to the planning and housing committee at two/3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral. Carried. On the item on favor carried. Mm 3949. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the infrastructure environment committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All favor of waving referral. Carried. on the item on favor carried. Pardon? Okay, one minute. Okay, thanks. Uh last month the stretch of Dupon in my ward was fully shut down for nearly a whole week with no notice provided to businesses, residents or even the TTC. This wasn't an emergency closure. It was planned. There was a permit secured in advance by Toronto Water. Um and these kinds of closures even for important water main repairs have a big impact. Uh local businesses lose money, commuters can't get to work or school on time. Um, and of course roads needs to be closed some of the time, but people are supposed to be notified so they can make alternate plans. That's a condition of the permits, but in this case, it just didn't happen at all. It can't continue, and it's not the only time it's happened in the city. Um, uh, that's why my motion today calls for all the divisions that work on road closures like this one to come together, create a clear accountability system, uh, and, um, and that includes making sure all permit requirements uh, get met by contractors. Uh, people deserve notice. is a small thing but it's a big thing in people's lives and I want to thank staff for helping me to draft it. Amen. Thank you. On the item on favor carried mm 3950 notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referrals carried. Who said hold? Oh, councelor Councelor Bradford is holding MM 3951. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried. Recorded on referral. Okay. Recorded vote. This is voting on waving referral. Councelor Cole, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The motion to wave referral carries. The vote is 20 to five. Okay. On the item recorded vote. Yeah, just a sec. Council Chang, Council Turnis, Councelor Carol, please. Councilor Chang, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Thank you. Councelor Cole, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. Councelor Carol, your vote verbally, please. Affirmative. Thank you. Okay. The item carries. The vote is 21 to 5. Mm 3952. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion subject to reopen up item 2025 mm 28 28.1 only as it pertains in parts one and two and three of the decision a twoth3 vote is required to reopen that item if reopen the previous uh council decision remains in in force unless council decides otherwise. On favor of reopening carried on the item on favor carried mm 3953. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the economic and community development committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral. A recorded to wave referral. Recorded vote. Councelor Cole, your vote. Verbally please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The motion to wave referral carries. The vote is 23-2 on the item babe. Recorded. Point of order. Councelor Holiday. Uh speaker, may I vote for one, two, and three separately recorded as one bunch? As one b as one bunch is fine. One through three recorded separate. Yeah. One, two, three. Recorded vote. Yeah. Okay. Michael I voted. Councelor Bradford. Thank you, Councelor Turnis. Councelor Canti, please. Council pull your vote please. Affirmative. Thank you. Parts one, two, three of the item carry. The vote is 23 to two on the balance of the item. All in favor carry. Mm 3954. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item. Pardon? Recorded on the on the item. Okay. Recorded vote. referral. Oh, okay. Cuz I thought we already voted on the referral. So, you want a recorded vote on the referral? Okay. Recorded vote. Councelor Cole, please. Affirmative. Thank you. The motion to wave referral carries. The vote is 23-3 on the item recorded vote. Councelor Prudza and councelor Crosanti please. Councelor Cole your vote please. Affirmative. Affirmative. And councelor Bravo, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The item carries. The vote is 23-3. MM3935, not 355. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A two/3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3956. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the economic and community development committee at two/3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral. carried on the item on favor carried mm 3957 notice of this motion has been given this motion is subject to referral to the executive committee at twothirds vote is required to wave referral favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor Pardon? Recorded vote. Deputy Mayor Malik, Councelor Mantis, and Council Canti, please. Councelor Cole. Affirmative. Thank you. The item carries unanimously. 26 in favor. MM3958. Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referrals of Toronto East Community Council. Twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the pardon. I can't hear you. Do you want to hold the item? 59 has been withdrawn. 3960 Notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. Recorded vote on the referral. Okay. Relax. All right. Councelor Cole, please. Negative. Negative. Thank you. The motion to wave referral carries. The vote is 21 to 4. Yeah, councelor Perks is holding the item down. And councelor Holidayiday, you have a point of order. do um I read the submission uh which is originally from the console general of the United States of America and there is some um information in there about the status of deployment of ICE agents or not deployment of ICE agents and in light of that would you rule this motion uh in or out of order please r will I didn't hear what you said will you uh check this motion to see if it's in order based on the information provided by the letter. Nothing to do with whether it's in order or not. Hold it down. I'll get back to you. 3961. Notice that this motion has been given. This motion subject to referral to the economic and community development committee at two/3 vote is required to wave referral. On favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried 62 has been withdrawn by councelor pasture. 63 Notice of this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the economic and committee development committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM3964 notice that this motion has been given. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Speaker, can I just councelor Mley? Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate you accommodating me. I just want to rise very quickly to thank um members of the Black Maternal Health Coalition for joining myself uh councilors Thompson and Councelor Moyes this afternoon um to acknowledge this motion and the upcoming um Black Maternal Health Week from April 11th to the 17th. Uh unfortunately, we continue to see disproportionate outcomes on an ongoing basis uh for black um women when it comes to maternal health. And these are important um bits of work and awareness to accountability that is being focused on for this year's theme. Uh again, just really want to appreciate colleagues for their support um to reaffirm this proclamation. It'll be the second year um that we're uh recognizing this important work uh and again with our thanks to the leaders and volunteers from the Black Maternal Health Collective. Thanks, Madam Speaker. Okay. On the item on favor carried. MM3965. Notice of this motion has not been given. A twoth3 vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral to the Toronto and East York Community Council. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. This motion has been named urgent by the chair. All in favor of waving notice carried. Pardon. Hold nice and simple. I shall hold it. Yeah. So, we Yeah, we waved notice. Now we have to wave referral. On favor carried and you're holding the item down. Yes, please. MM3966 notice of this motion has not been given. A twothirds vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral. The Toronto Nish York Committee Council 2/3 vote is required to wave referral. On favor of waving notice carried on favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM3967 Notice of this motion has not been given. A twothirds vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral to the civic appointments committee. A two/3 vote is required to wave referral. On favor of waving no notice carried. On favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3968. Notice of this motion has not been given. The twothirds vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral to the atobico committee council. A twothird vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving notice carried. All in favor of waving referral carried. Did you want to record a vote council holiday? It's your motion. No. All in favor on the item carried. Mm 3969. Notice that this motion has not been given. A twothirds vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. All in favor of waving notice carried. On favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3970. Notice of this motion has not been given. A twothirds vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee. A twothirds vote is required to wave referral. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. All in favor of waving notice carried. On favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM3971 notice of this motion has not been given. A twothirds vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral to the executive committee at two/3 vote is required to wave referral. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. All favor of waving notice carried. On favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. Mm 3972. Notice of this motion has not been given. A twothirds vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to reopen of item 2025 mm 30.8 only as it pertains to part one. A twothird vote is required to reopen that item. If reopen the previous council decision remains enforced unless council decides otherwise. All in favor of waving notice carried. On favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM3973 notice of this motion has not been given. A twoth3 vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral to the infrastructure environment committee. A twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. All in favor of waving notice carried. On favor of waving referral carried on the item on favor carried. MM 3974 Notice of this motion has not been given. A twoth3 vote is required to wave notice. This motion is subject to referral to the Toronto and East York Community Council. Twoth3 vote is required to wave referral. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. All favor waving notice carried. Waving referral carried on the item. All favor carried. MM3975 notice this motion has been deemed urgent by the chairs. This vote this sub this motion is not subject to vote to wave referral. This motion been added to the agendas before council for debate on the item on favor carried. Mm 3976. This motion has been deemed urgent by urgent by the chair. This motion is not subject to vote to wave referral. This motion is is subject to reopen of item 2025 i.e. 25.6. A twoth3 vote is required to reopen that item if reopened. The previous count decision remains in force unless council decides otherwise. All in favor of the item reopening first. Yeah. All favor reopening carried. on the item on favor carried. MM3977. This been this motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. This motion is not subject to vote to wave referral. This motion been added to the agenda is before council for debate on the item on favor carry. Mm 3978. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. This motion is not subject to vote to wave referral. This motion is subject to reopen of item 2025T 2412. A two-th3 vote is required to reopen that item if reopened. The previous council decision remains enforced unless council decides otherwise on the item on fa on the reopening on favor carried. On the item on favor carried mm 3979. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. This motion is not subject to vote to wer this motion been added to the agendas before council for debate on the item. On favor carried mm 3980. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. This motion is not subject to vote to re referral. This motion has been added to the agendas before council for debate on the item. All in favor carried. Mm 3981. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. This motion is not subject to a vote to wave referral. This motion been added to the agendas before council for debate. Hold. MM3982. This motion has been deemed urgent by this chair. This motion is not subject to vote to re referral. This motion's been added to the agendas before council for debate on the item. on the item carried MM3983. This motion has been deemed urgent by the chair. This motion is not subject to vote to waver for all. This motion been added to the agendas before council for debate on the item on favor carried. Pardon? You want to hold? Councelor Chang wants to hold it. Okay, members, that was 83 members motion. So, no more motions for the rest of the uh meeting. Okay, hold on. Councelor Perks. Thank you, Speaker. on a point of privilege. I just uh want to acknowledge and thank you for reading aloud to us for 94 minutes. It was beautiful. I I I know I I don't know if I can speak after this. So, please keep your speeches short, please. Councelor Mley. Uh thanks, Madam Speaker. I did submit in the last short while been working uh with staff on an urgent motion and it has been sent over to clerk. So I just wanted to make sure that that is we can deal with that at this um I I sorry I didn't hear what you said. I've been working with staff throughout the day. I have an urgent motion without notice that's been sent to the clerks and I'm hoping we can deal with that today. It's um it needs Okay. I haven't sensitive. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. After after councelor Mort's motion, we're cutting off the members motion. There's more. How many more? What's going on? When When were they submitted? Okay, but at one point we have to cut it off. Um, yeah. I mean, I think mo I think the rest most of the agenda will be deferred to the next council meeting because everything's being held down. Yeah. No more after what's been submitted. So, don't receive anymore. I I I believe our next item is GG 2714, which is a timed item, renewal of various bulk club leases. Councelor Mley held the item down. So, do we have questions to staff? Please put your name on the list. Count. Okay. If I can have members of council to take their seats. We're we're moving to the next item. Councelor Moyes, Councelor Bradford, Councelor Chang, Councelor Matlo, please. Okay. Do we have staff here? Okay. Councelor Mley, questions to staff. Uh, thanks, Madam Speaker. I do have a number of questions of staff. Um, both TRCA creme as well as parks. Um, for the TRCA, um, I'm going to be focused on the one, uh, Toronto Humber Yacht Club in my ward uh, where there was some changes at general government. Uh, with respect to the Toronto Humber Yacht Club, would the TRCA approve a new land use proposal that looked like this club in this location along a river if it were received today? M speaker, no. Would the TRCA support the city's decision to not renew the Toronto Humber Yacht Club or does the TRCA support this original decision of staff? Uh speaker uh TRCA supports the staff on non-renewal recommendation. Thank you. Thank you. How uh I'll go to Creme. Thank you very much. Um is the Toronto Humber Yacht Club the only club not recommended for renewal in the report before us through the speaker. That's correct. What issues were there with this particular yacht club that weren't present for the other yacht clubs? Uh, I'll pass to parks to speak to the overall decision around the non-renewal and we can speak to lease uh compliance after that. Thank you, speaker. Um, parks determined not to include the yacht club among the leases recommended for renewal after a comprehensive review of all 25 leases up for renewal in consultation with TRCA and Creme and fundamentally on the basis of land use um did not bring this one forward for recommendation um in consideration of other issues as well which I will ask first of um creme and then TRCA. Thank you. Thanks uh through the speaker. Uh longstanding behavioral and compliance issues on the site and with the tenant heightened the environmental sensitivity concerns on the site and supported the uh determination not to put this forward for renewal. Thank you. Can you summarize briefly some of the lease compliance issues and public concerns that have been raised uh at this location and for this club? Thanks. through the speaker between two 2018 and 2024. Uh we the city has been uh communicating multiple times with the tenant uh around both violations, lease violations and formal default notices. The conduct included uh concern I'm sorry I'm going to interrupt because we need to have a quorum call. Nobody is sitting at their seats, I guess. Yeah, quarum call. No, nobody's sitting at their seats. They're all around chatting. Please sit in your seats. Councelor Pastron, please. Councelor Chang. Quorum call. Madam Speaker, there are 19 members present in the meeting. Can can if I can ask members of council to please remain in your seats because we have a huge agenda here. No, I I I know it's okay. Go go go ahead. Um, thanks, Madam Speaker. Through you, um, staff were just summarizing some of the lease compliance issues as well as public concerns that have been raised. If I could pass it back over to staff to complete their answer on that. Thanks. Just to finish off, the notices included concerns on encroachments, unauthorized structures, nuisance, environmental damage, and unapproved commercial activity. How many notices have been sent to the club about these issues since 2018? Uh over the years, there's been multiple sort of quite a bit of communication back and forth. Uh we think there's more than 10 uh formal communications on lease performance concerns. So would it be fair to say that the Toronto Humber Yacht Club has been given the opportunity to come into compliance over the years? Uh through the speaker that is an accurate statement. And what kind of response to these notices have this has the city seen over the years? And have any of these infractions been resolved through the speaker? As summarized in the supplemental report, the majority of the noted violations and defaults remain um unresolved. Thank you. My final questions are for parks. What would a less intensive use look like in a pra look like in practice and is there a plan to move forward in that direction? a less intensive use um would not look like a motorized boat club. It would and a plan to move forward really would look like um wind down in 2026. TRCA technical studies in early 2027 and considering a range of future possibilities and then consultation um in fall of 2027 and then a proposal um back to committee. Thank you. Uh I'll leave it there for my questions. Madame um speaker, I will speak to this and I have a motion. Councelor Holidayiday. Thank you. Uh we heard at the committee that a decision was made in spring of 2025 not to renew the lease and that was done by the city's Toronto public service. Uh has anyone figured out who made that decision and what the basis was? Speaker, the decision was made by the uh general manager of parks and wreck in consultation with TRCA and Creme and the basis of the decision was fundamentally related to land use um with other considerations as described recently by my counterparts. Oh, so so um other considerations would as in the supplemental report that just popped up on this were all now part of that decision. I just want to be clear on that speaker. The primary driver for the decision was land use. Those other considerations were also taken into account. All right. So, uh leading into that decision, what consultation was done with the club or with the public or with anyone or did the public service just make a decision? Consultation included work with the TRCA, Creme Legal, Indigenous Affairs Office, Toronto Animal Services, Toronto Police Services, Marine Unit, various elected officials, and Toronto Canada Office of Boating Safety. Any members of the public? the club, the members of the club, the communication um was pursuant to the lease, the lease concerns, not related specifically to future use. Right? So, no one talked to the club about renewing or not renewing. I just want to be clear on it like yes or no. Through the speaker, we have been in ongoing conversations with the club around performance uh in lease compliance. Uh there was no communication directly with the club about non-renewing and whether this site was going to continue in the boat club portfolio prior to that decision being made. So staff made uh staff made this decision. Is staff aware that there's quite a bit out there on social media and one of the things I read there was that there is a there's a push or a drive to establish a non-motorized paddle club in this location. Did anyone give pause to the process understanding that there's advocacy for a change on that land and here we are with a decision made by the public service and fast forward a year later we're talking about it at council. Did anyone weave that into the process or was it not known? Speaker, the answer is no. The decision was relative to land use. Not this boat club, but any boat club in this particular location. Now, just about the land use, I'm going to really summarize it to say this is a boat club on a flood plane. It's been there for 70 years, by the way. Uh and and usees potentially longer. And essentially, it boils down to there isn't a desire to locate uses on a flood plane. Is that correct? through the speaker. Um, and as was mentioned earlier, u, if there was a new proposal of this day and age, oh, but but we do not, uh, want to have risk in the hydraulic floodway where this is located. So, while it's in the flood plane, it's also in the hydraulic floodway, which is the most highest risk part of a flood plane. And so, having those types of uses and property, uh, hazard mitigation is a priority for us at TRCA. So that's why we have supported the city's Are there other things in that same category up the Humber River or along other rivers? I mean, we just approved the Evergreen Brick Works. I'm not saying it's on the hydraulic flood. Maybe it is, but but are there other places in Toronto where there's things close to the river? They've been there for a while. So through the speaker, uh there is no other uh boat club uh on a riverine system. What about other things? Arenas, parking lots, playgrounds, sports fields, uh, you know, permeable, impermeable paving. Is there not any other examples along any of Toronto's rivers? Do we tear those out too through the speaker? There are historic uses uh throughout the city and in the in the valleys. Uh, but there is um no boat club as I mentioned in the hydraulic floodway in a river system. And with it renewing, that's why we supported or with with it coming to uh the term coming to an end, that's why we supported the uh city's decision. Uh and finally, you know, there's been a focus on the word motorized because I understand there's people eyeing this idea of non-motorized uh paddling clubs or that was your this is your last question. Can you tell me whose jurisdiction the waterway is with respect to boat use? Is it anybody here? It's not the city's jurisdiction. The staff answered. She said it's not in her. Didn't you say it's not in your jurisdiction? No, it's not the cities. Who is it? So, marine safety matters are if there are marine safety matters, those are matters that perhaps could be uh directed towards council in terms of how TPS and how other um other ops have jurisdiction on water that we do not have water jurisdiction. Madam Speaker, perhaps I can ask. Councelor Fletcher, you're next. No, I'm the city's lister answering clock problem. Sorry. Go ahead. The um the management agreement provides that the city is responsible for maintaining the lands for parks, recreation and conservation purposes and any other uses TRCA approval. Any other uses require TRCA approval? Okay, councelor Fletcher, you're next with Okay. Uh, can you just read the three things again? That's in the 1972 management letter. It's uh recreation. Sir, parks, recreation, and conservation purposes. Parks, recreation, and conservation purposes. and everything else is under the the TRCA can say yes or no. So that's correct. Um I guess I've got the 2018 violation letter and it's very clear at that point that there is a violation around says jet skis rental of jet skis float homes and uh Iron River. Am I correct in that? Who's going to tell me about that lease? I guess that that's what's in there saying you violated these things in 2018 through the speaker. That is correct. Were any of those violations brought into compliance or they're still questionable? Uh through the speaker, many of the ongoing violation notices are still under dispute or have not been rectified. Under dispute, meaning the jet skis and that's what the lease was said. You can't do that in 2018 um and continue to today. I know there was a question about uh who you talked to, councelor Hollidays, who who did you talk to? I think your correspondence was with the leadership of the club or the executive or whoever was running that club, not the members. Am I correct in that? That's correct. all of our formal. So, does it surprise you that some of the members might not be aware of all of the violations that were in all of the letters that have been sent for many years to whoever it is that is the leadership of this club to the speaker? No, that does not surp does not surprise you. So perhaps the and perhaps those that information wasn't passed on to the membership and that was not the city's requirement to pass that on. It's the club's require requirement to pass that to the members. Am I correct? Yes. Through the speaker. That's correct. Thank you very much. I just want to ask now about the land because uh this is a question for the TRCA. This is a question. Councelor Aninsley for the CEO. Stop my time please because the CEO is being sir Anley. The staff are there to answer questions and I am owed some time. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you claiming your time. Well, you've let it go. So the question is who owns this land through the speaker. TRCA is the owner of the land and it manages. No, I just didn't ask who manages it. I asked who owns this land. The Toronto Region Conservation Authority. The Toronto Region Conservation Authority. And who is your agent in leasing? The city of Toronto. The city of Toronto. But the underlying ownership is the TRCA ownership. And as we heard from the city solicitor, recreation, uh, parks and conservation are what the city or Metro Toronto mandated the city to do. But everything else is under TRCA. Do I have that right through the chair? Uh, the ownership is TRCA. You have that right. Absolutely. But the ownership, the the activities on there outside of those three things, Madam Solister, would fall to the TRCA to say yes, no, don't lease. And in addition, any lease requires written consent from the TRCA. So the lease, you'd have written consent, but jet skis, dragon boat, float homes, those are things that you are aware of because you're the land owner. I mean, if I own a house and I've given it to a leasing agent, I certainly want to know what somebody's doing with my home. Have you been aware of these violations for a number of years through the chair? I have at almost every event. Has TRCA been aware? I have been made aware by people that there are violations. Have you people or the Who's made you aware? Have you been copied on anything? citizens that show up at events and also on correspondence that I'm copied on. Correspondence that your formal correspondence you've been copied on that was sent to the leadership of the club that was not circulated to the members of the club and I feel badly for them. But as the legal owner of that land, do you think all of the violations that have now surfaced are ones that would require the lease to be not renewed? Yes or no? Yes, I support the decision of staff not to renew this. But it's more than a staff. You're the land owner. Are those things that should happen on those lands, TRCA lands? In my opinion, through my opinion, no. And I would advise the board uh of TRCA accordingly. Thank you. They should not have happened there. And it's not just Anyway, I'll speak. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Burnside. Through you. Hello there. Um, very simple questions. Um, sort of help me understand who would actually, and I know they've been going back and forth, but I'm still unclear. Who makes the decision to renew or not? Would it be the TRCA that then advises parks or does parks makes the dec parks or creme or whoever the heck it is? parks makes the decision but requires the written support of TRCA. Okay, that's very helpful. Okay, so then I only have one more question. Um, nor speak louder. I was just trying to calm it down a little bit, but um if normally if you do not I guess I think this is not to TRCA for sure. If you're normally going to or decide not to renew a lease, is the normal procedure to let the lei know through the speaker? By definition, a tenant knows the lease is coming to an end at the end of the term. If there was interest in renewal, that conversation would occur naturally either on the request of a tenant or on the request of a landlord. I would also reiterate it is very important to acknowledge lease terms and lease as leases as a tool are fundamental to how the city manages its real estate. It means that we have an ongoing opportunity to reassess current uses on our land to reflect new environmental considerations, changes in policies. The 20-year boat club term has been a core characteristic of the boat club portfolio since its inception. Okay, so the lease coming up normally the le would reach out to renew. Yeah. through the speaker that can happen. Through the speaker that may happen. Okay. Well, how would it normally happen? I'm not trying to like these are not trick questions. I'm really just trying to understand. Um on all the other cases, how did that happen? Because unfortunately, I'm very confused on this file. Um so, in other renewals, did we reach out? Did they reach out? Are they just automatic? I'm just trying to understand the process. So the the through the speaker the process in this instance started with a portfoliowwide site review to ensure that the existing uses still aligned with so I'm sorry not to interrupt only because I have five minutes is just what is the process if you're going to renew with another let's just say any club X if what would the process be do you reach out um if they don't reach out does a renewal not happen that's what I'm just trying to understand if if all the proper pro processes were followed processes through the speaker. There is no perceived right to renewal. If there is an interest to renewing, that conversation typically happens. You would initiate it type thing. It can be initiated by either tenant or land. Oh, hold on a sec. Excuse me. Uh, mayor's office, I'm just asking questions over here. It'd be helpful if I could hear the answers. Thank you. Um, so, okay. So, normally you would we would reach out to whoever it is, dialogue, whatever. If we don't reach out, it's kind of like the girlfriend didn't the the date you want to go on, they don't call back or whatever. No one's called. So, you pretty much know you're breaking up through the speaker. That may sound correct. Just experience, right? I'm just trying to bring my own life into it. Um, so that's not the way that's not the way Dian works these days. Well, okay. Well, yeah, it's been a while, but okay. So, did did they reach out to us? That's all and and I think we can sort of wrap it up there. Did they reach out to us or like how does this all sort of come to a head through the speaker? I am not aware of any formal requests from the tenant in this instance to renew the uh the lease. Awesome. Thank you very much for that. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, that's it for the questions. We'll go to the speakers. Councelor Holidayiday, if I could have a mic. Um members, this is not the best face or f best example of government. Um I spoke passion about passionately about this at the committee. Uh because I've been very upset with what I've seen. Um there's a boat club that's existed for about 70 years. And if you look longer on the history, that site goes back a very very long time with uses. And uh lo and behold, these members were suddenly told you can't come back. And uh that has put them into uh some of them into a terrible place and without any real opportunity to mitigate the issue. And I understand that they weren't spoken to about what was coming up. In fact, when there was a process to go and prepare for the lease renewals, they thought everything was going fine based on their interactions with the city. And all of the sudden, here they are. They're out. and we finally get a report that talks a little bit about some of the issues that have been put out there, frankly, on social media. And I regret that as a member of council, I can't even look at those even closer or test them or to figure out, you know, if if there was something going on the the confines of the site, you know, how bad was that? Were they given a chance to mitigate it? And instead, here they are tossed out. And speaker, if I could just ask that you could keep uh comments down in the chamber so that I can talk. But this is really serious. You know, the other part of all of this is how difficult it has been. Okay, just just one sec. Can I have quiet please in the council chambers? Councelor Mantis, councelor Chang, please. Part of this speaker is how difficult it has been to obtain information as a member of council. I went with you question after question of committee. I had a few chances for questions today. I couldn't even get the answer back whose jurisdiction the water is. I think it's federal. Like I think the federal government controls boats on the water. And it kept leading me back is that there's this push to take boats off of the river, but nobody could explain to me what the problem was with boats. Is it boats or is it jet skis? Is it the private boat launch or is it the public boat launch that's right adjacent to this place? And is there are there any plans for the public boat launch that's adjacent to this place? I don't know. All I know is that this club is being pushed out. And the other thing that I see that's most concerning is there's a whole bunch of stuff on social media uh written by different people and they talk about interactions with the city and with city staff and reports that are coming and they talk about the idea of a different club going there and a paddle club and so on. and it looks very poor from the outside in. I really regret the way that this process has unfolded. It does not instill people's confidence in government. It doesn't instill people's confidence in government decisionmaking. And what I did at committee was just try to give this a little bit of a pause. And it actually was councelor Aninsley's motion, the chair of the committee to give this club a chance uh you know for this voting season to see if they can come to terms that is agreeable to everybody to make any changes that are needed to deal with things like jet skis that we know are contentious because one would think after 70 years the least that the city could do is see if they could fix the problems, the alleged problems. But we don't even have the information to properly understand what those are. And the the the the icing on all of this is that council's decision has been prejudiced today. Why? Because a public servant a year ago, last spring, made the determination that the lease wasn't going to be renewed. And we find ourselves a year later playing catch-up with a decision now before council to affirm that. and all I get is uh paper thin reasons or excuses as to why that lease hasn't been renewed a whole year later. And that's not right. This should have been gone through the front door. There should have been some public consultation before the decision was made. There should have been some rationale. There should have been some opportunity to for the club to respond to at least rebut or defend themselves. And they've been given nothing. And so if this is the way that we're going to behave as a city, you know, to rule with a fist, to throw people out at a whim, then that is that's pathetic. And I think that they've been done wrong on this. And I the committee's laid out an opportunity to try to write this to give a path for everybody. And if it doesn't go well over a year, then everyone can in good conscience go a different direction. But I think a motion is coming to pull the rug out from underneath that. And I think that's highly disappointing. And I think that we can do better. And the last thing I would say is despite whatever council's decision is right now, I don't think that this should be left alone. We have a city's on budsman and we have a city manager that a complaint can go to and I think people h should have the right and should exercise their right to ask that this whole process be looked at far closer because I think that the citizens of this city councelor Holiday or time please no applause in the council chambers councelor Fletcher to speak. Thank you very much. Uh I I really have a lot of sympathy for where members of this club find themselves right now because um I'm not sure that all the members are aware of all the violation letters that were sent. Um, that would surprise me that you know about that because I've looked at them and they're all on the record and they're very detailed about things that would have to stop in order to run the club on this particular piece of land and if whoever starting in 2018 and it just seems that that's happened uh without fully I don't know in the membership meetings have been I don't know how that gets conveyed to you but that's in my math that's uh eight years of this nature of these violations that were laid out very clearly in the letter from the city who holds the lease to the club in 2018. So, I'm really sorry that we're sitting here today with this because I think that could have been fixed long ago. But, however, and for whatever reason that wasn't done, we're finding ourselves in a very unfortunate situation. There are all of the leases were looked at. I have all kinds of leases. In fact, TRCA has a sailboat lease on the Lesley Spit. It's your own lease and there's controversy there. They come into compliance all the time. They have to come into compliance. No, you can't drive down that road. No, you can't. You can only go 18 kilometers an hour. They have to do it. And the club understands that. I'm really concerned that for some reason this club didn't understand that the nature of those violations. We're putting the very existence of this club into jeopardy. That is very unfortunate because I know how much people love to be on the water. That's why we have so many clubs across the city all the way from Scar Bro all the way to Atobbico and they're all in compliance except this one. So um it really is it's really truly a tragedy and saying well we'll try one more time. It's been eight years of trying. I do believe though that this is it's a complicated matter because it is the land is the TRCA's land but the city holds the lease on behalf of the TRCA which is charged with all of the matter of maintaining all the flood plane lands all the ravines the integrity of all of that and from what I've heard is that we're not this club is not meeting that standard and I don't think you're not meeting it because the people here said we don't want to meet that. Forget it. We're going to do I just don't think you understood or were given the information to the point where that became material in your ability to have a yacht club or a Humber Bay boat club of some kind. I know you're not the RCYC. I know that the RCYC has a dock in my area and they run people over in their tender. You're not Queen City Yacht Club. You're more like Aquatic Park Sailing Club. But all the compliance issues of all of that, including my Aquatic Park Sailing Club for that lease, I think it took a long time to go over and renew that lease because they had to come into compliance and that was many meetings with that club. So unfortunately we've ended up in this place. I understand who you are. Many of you would be sailing out of the clubs in my ward. But this has gone on for a long time. And I do think that there's people that are in charge that have let you down because they're the ones who've brought us to this brink today. If you didn't know that there was an arms length of violations that had to be fixed on the lease, that's not Park's fault. That's not TRCA's fault. That's not leasing fault. That's not Councelor Morley's fault. That's not my fault. That is a club communications issue. They are very simple to fix. Stop this on the water. No, you can't rent that. No, you can't have commercial. No, you can't have another dock. You can't do what you want. 5 seconds. And unfortunately, we're at this brink today. Thank you, Councelor Moley. Sorry, Madam Speaker. I'm going to go last. I did. I'm just waiting for the system to catch up. Yeah. Hi, My system froze. Apologies, Madam Speaker. Councilor Posture Knack then. Okay. Thank you very much. I I will be brief. I I was approached by by the club and I did meet with them and I heard their story. And it's very important to remember that most of these clubs are run by volunteers. They're not paid professionals. They're people who love boating. They're people who love the water. The people who enjoy our summers. And that's crucial in our city, in a big city, to make sure that people can enjoy the water, people can go to the water and have an organized an organized programming and organized structure. They have made a number of promises, at least uh as they've told me, to make sure the public has more access, make sure ski uh skid duos are are are banned, and to make sure that they uh work on compliance. Now, You could argue that they've had chance after chance, but remember when it comes to volunteer organizations, it's very hard to get uh volunteers to have the legal and financial muscle to meet all of the requirements of orders from the city. I think it's time to uh give this club another chance. They do own the clubhouse, which will make litigation completely complex. TRC lands will go vacant and people who have enjoyed uh the water for so many years and they're voting for for for many years will not have a place to go. So I I will not support the recommendations before us, the committee recommendations. I believe that this lease should be negotiated under the strictest of terms uh with compliance of the orders uh that have been given and of course they must adhere to the promises they're making with the community access agreement banning of skidos and of course making sure that their environmental uh environmental regulations are adhered to. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Through you, to my colleagues and folks listening in today, I want to thank everyone who's come with great interest on this item um that have been following along online and have been reaching out not just to me um but my council colleagues on this item. Um I have a motion to move and I will move that at the top before I provide my remarks. if clerks could help me put it on top. The motion essentially is to delete the recommendation that came forward at general government and to reinstate the original recommendations of staff. Um, happy to read it here. Okay. So, it's there. I'll consider it red. Um, we have made uh we've had to spend a lot of time on this one. Uh, I did join my colleagues at general government committee on this item so I could ask questions and as well listen in. I also have been down to this site. Last year, June, I did a tour of the site with the then Commodore along with city staff, along with TRCA. Before I took the opportunity to go down to this club and put eyes on it myself and connect directly with them, I did my due diligence and connected in with staff to understand what the history of this club looked like. I had heard also from residents in my ward via a petition with over 2600 um signi signitories and and individuals who up to this afternoon are continuing to call for the city's recommendations to be supported and for this lease to not be renewed. At that time when we did a walkabout with um the then commodore city staff and colleagues from TRCA the conversation was exactly what's been asked for. There's a long list of compliance issues here. If you show good faith and demonstrate an ability and a willingness to address these compliance issues, we will open up a a further conversation despite the environmental challenges, despite the flood risk and the and those location issues, the difficulty with enforcement on the river and the unique nature of this location. That opportunity was granted. So for anybody to sit in front of this council committee or otherwise and say that it wasn't is false information. I have here a f file that's quite thick of the history of non-compliance and the nature of the responses from this club to the city which did not demonstrate a collaborative attitude did not it may take any effort to address the concerns that as we heard from staff today continue and are ongoing on the site. This is a really important location in Atobbico lakeshore. It is the only club of its of its kind on a river within a flood zone and a heritage protected ri a heritage protected river at that. This is not an appropriate location. We've heard about the environmental considerations and our responsibilities of steward as stewards of this land. But we also understand through the supplementary report that staff prepared and I thank the colleagues around the table who took the time to review it in great detail as I know councelor Fletcher did uh and got to really have a clear sense about what the relationship unfortunately has been in the last eight years with this club and the lack of collaborative energy that they've brought forward to the city to demonstrate the ability to create a sustainability plan to address the conflicts on in the water with recreational users and motorized users. Many opportunities were given and additionally members started to reach out to my office to understand what was going on because there was not clear confir uh communication or information coming from leadership that staff had done their due diligence provided the information that was not appropriately communicated out to other members of the club which is the responsibility of those governing and operating this club which did not take place. So for all of the um claims that this has been an unfair process, I dispute that and have been myself engaged and was part of the consultation with staff who made the decision around renewal. We have 24 clubs in good standing in our city. Four of which four others are in my ward along the waterfront. They are great stewards of the land that they occupy. They work closely with their members on behavior, on compliance, and on being good neighbors and we're grateful for them. I've been engaged and at the sale paths for many of them and I look forward to joining them this season as well. When this came up in June and this was advised to this club, I took it upon myself to connect with the Commodores from those other clubs to advise them that this was coming down the pipeline and to make space for the members of the Toronto Humber Yacht Club that want to continue to recreate in Atobico Lake. And we absolutely want that for them. We want that to happen in a suitable location. We want that to happen in a good way with clubs that are being responsible leasees and partners with the city of Toronto. I see my time is up and I don't always take all my time, but I do look to my colleagues as good stewards and responsible leaders in this city. We have a clear case before us that is supported by the council of commodors as well. They support the staff recommendations as written and I hope you will support them as well. Okay. So, pardoned. Yeah. Okay. We'll put the motion on the screen. Recorded vote. Motion by councelor Morley. Recorded vote. Councelor Croanti, please. motion one carries. The vote is 19 to five. Is that it? Item is amended. All in favor? Carried. Next item. AU 11.4. Councelor Chang, you held the item down. Do you have questions to staff? Do you have questions for staff? I do. I actually Okay. Well, let's just hold on till we get st to come. If you have portions of staff, can people please put their names on the list? Council Chen question. Thank you. Thank you for this report. Um we always hear from taxpayers how uh they want to know if their tax dollars are being effectively used and a report like this highlights that there's something that is not changing. And so the last five years I see here uh you know demonstrating accountability is it still a gap strengthening contractor oversight and modernizing processes which as you know is always important to me. I'm just wondering out of this report is there a plan to have a plan we have we don't want to be here in five years to say oh well the needle didn't move again. So, is there a plan to have some clear KPIs connected to the issues that are highlighted in this report? Speaker, the short answer is yes. And it actually begins at the end of April. Uh I have an opportunity, as I do twice a year, to be in front of 350 of our most senior leaders in the organization. This is going to be one of the topics that we're going to talk about. And from there, we're going to start to do two things. One is some very specific training and support to help people be able to identify ways that the auditor general has commented on repeatedly about how we can do better. There's some very good management responses that we need to make sure everybody is complying to, not just those who had the audit done. And then the second piece is that it becomes part of performance and we measure it. So to your point um this is something we've talked about our senior leadership team and as I say starts next month with our entire leadership group. So moving forward there will be some kind of evaluation uh with metrics tied to what has been highlighted here and will that kind of will it be a self evaluation or a third party evaluation in trying to determine whether or not divisions are demonstrating accountability or strengthening contractor oversight. So it will be a bit of both. I there most of it will be you know through the rigor and the oversight that happens within the divisions themselves. We have though and and it's a credit to our chief financial officer. He's been working with uh internal audit. We're using internal audit in new ways these days and we also believe there's an opportunity for internal audit to also provide some um a little external work within this as well. And then as always, I expect these are areas and not, you know, because I think we're going to fail, but I expect these will be areas where the auditor general will continue to look at and and uh I mean nothing other than I expect it will be. So I think we'll also get those external reviews as well. So it'll be a combination of it. The best thing we can do though is train well, uh manage well, have this as somebody's individual performance as well as their group's performance and continue to report out and get better. Is there a way that this kind of new program that we're kind of launching in April that there would be a report back in a future year to see how it's going so that we're not just surprised or not surprised in a 5-year check-in. Uh so I'd be happy to do that. It might be worth uh you know considering that um you know on the new term of council at the audit committee for instance to have a bit of a chance for us to present how this program is coming together and am happy to do that. Great. And my other question is you know in the budget process we often we we get a very high level in terms of how budgets are allocated and it doesn't get down to the program level. And that always made me wonder why do we not have program evaluations in this in the budget process so that when we're allocating big amounts of money that we can see what is the effectiveness of that program. Is that something that we could consider in the next budget cycle that there would be program evaluations and allocations so that we have a better idea in terms of how we're doing and achieving program objectives. uh to the speaker. So I'm happy to follow up um with you on this further. We do have budget notes for each city program and agency. Uh within those budget notes, we get into details on the operating uh operating budget. Uh we include some of the performance standards. We'll we'll speak about every capital project that's in the budget. So I'm happy to have some further conversations with you around how we can expand that um uh to be able to ensure we're providing the information you're looking to see. I think the challenge is, you know, some of this is not necessarily um a simple metric because we're talking about meeting program objectives. So, councelor Chang, last question. Yes, it would be much more than a number. So, is there a way to have a more wholesome way to capture program evaluation? Okay, thank thank you. I would suggest you come to one of the audit committee um meetings. Do you want to answer that question? Uh happy to happy to take that under adisement as we prepare materials for next year. Thank you. Okay. Any further questions on this item? Councelor Chang, you're just going to release it on the item carried. I apologize to staff that you had to sit here all day. Um it's unfortunate. Uh councelor Pletcher, your item is next. audit pay duty officers. Okay. C, do you have a question? Uh, no. No. Oh, there's somebody on there now. No, that was the the last one. Okay. I was just working out with clerks the ones that I've sent in for quick release and that was one of them. But I just have a motion to move and that's it, which I believe they have. Give us a second counselor if I can. Yeah, because we paid we we already pres the other item we already moved. Okay, so we're on this one. Okay, so uh Okay, go ahead, councelor Fletcher. So you sent something to the clerk. The clerks do have just a very simple motion that I can Okay, so the the clerk can put it on the screen. Councelor Fletcher's motion on this AU 11.7. I'll just start speaking about it quickly as they're getting ready to put that up. And it really is paid duty officers. There it is. And there's always a sheet that goes along that gives instruction to the paid duty officers as to what they're supposed to be doing on that site. Uh I know that from some TTC construction where I did ask to see them. So, I think it's helpful we get here's the signage, here's the this, here's the that, here's the fate duty officers, but what are their instructions? Are they looking after pedestrians? Are they doing all these different things? And I think it's easy to just attach that to the information that we get for all major construction that requires road closures, paid duty officers. We all know what that's like in our wards. So, that's it, speaker. That's the one motion that I have. Thank you. Okay. on councelor Fletcher's amendment on AU 11.7 on favor carried item is amended on favor carried the next item is yours as well general government councelor Fletcher GG27.7 pardon councelor Thompson and I were kind of jointly holding that and I was CFO explained that The contract that we were interested in has already been approved. It's councelor Thompson, but I'm not sure that. Let's just hold that till we make sure that that's all. Okay, good. Councelor Perks, you're the next next one. GG 20 GG 27.7. Okay, just one sec. Yeah, we're you're we're standing down seven and we're sorry. Yeah, GG 2713. Councelor Perks. Yes, I have a motion on this item. Okay. So, we can put the motion on the screen. Okay. So, this is an amendment a small uh a small amendment to the uh motion moved at committee. Uh in section one of that it what I'm doing is replacing the words prior to any renewals and instead putting in part of the next report on the high park movement strategy. Very simply put, uh, Councelor Holidayiday and others on on the committee uh, had some questions and concerns about the future operation of the, uh, amusement train in the park. Uh, and I haven't approved that one yet. Put a motion in saying that, you know, let's not just keep endlessly renewing this contract. Let's get some resolution to it. Uh but what what I've recommended in city staff support is in 2027 next year uh there's a report due on the next phase of the high park movement strategy anyway and that the proposals staff make at that time are related to how the train should operate. So bringing an integrated report that has both pieces of information is preferred. Oh. Uh, councelor Holidayiday, you have a question to the mover. I do. Uh, and the button doesn't work right now and I I think it's a friendly question. Um, to councelor Perks. The u the original intent of the motion that was moved at committee was to ensure that these matters were discussed prior to any contract renewal. In other words, extending the amusement longer. Do you believe that your motion uh remains aligned with that and that these matters would be discussed before uh the contract expires in two years and gets re-renewed if it gets re-renewed? Yes. Thank you. That's all I wanted to know. Okay. On councelor Perks's amendment on favor if any carried item is amended. on favor carried. And I understand GG27.7, uh, councelor Thompson is okay with it. And councelor Fletcher, did you want to Yes. Just release it. That's okay. Thank you. So on GG 27.7, Councelor Fletcher is releasing. All right. All in favor? Carried. Our next item is infrastructure and environment committee. I 27.7. Councelor Fletcher, you held the item down. The ravine strategy. Oh my god. I do have a motion that can't seem to find. Yeah, hold on. It's okay. Can you wait for a second? Councelor Fletcher, hold on. I I understand. I know you have a question, but you have good question. Yeah. So what I've just been Yes, I have a motion that I need to find and we need to get it to the center table because they couldn't find that motion that I had sent earlier. That's all. Did you find it? Oh, they have found it. So that's fine. We can proceed with this item and uh going to the questions by Okay. Does anybody have any questions on the ravine strategy? If you can please put your name on the list, please. I don't see anybody's name except for councelor Holiday. Oh, just a sec. Hold on. Go ahead, speaker. So, you know, the system is glitchy right now. Uh, so it's moving slow. My question, uh, I think they're fairly straightforward. Um, one of the there's a significant number of ravines in Ward 2 Atobico Center and many of them are parks at the same time. One of the things that is continuously happening in those ravines is replanting or planting for the first time. Um, to the point that some of the open areas are constantly getting encroached on and I mean, you know, mowed grass areas. What asurances does council have that there's still going to be program space maintained uh for recreational things or permitted uses, that sort of stuff, because I realize the ravine strategy looks to naturalize a lot of the ravines for lots of important reasons. Uh but there has to be some balance with the mix of of uh uses in there, including simply just having space for kids to run around in and kick a ball. So through the chair um we in environment, climate and forestry work with uh closely with our colleagues in parks and recreation to ensure that the work that we're doing um related to the naturalization of of lands uh the programming either through the city or through our partners uh is well balanced and not uh uh in a unintended way taking over space uh for the other recreational opportunities. uh for Torononians which are equally as important. So, one of the other things that um I've heard from people and experienced at times is that um the ravines have changed and they've sort of grown in a lot and those are the areas where there's trails and I mean there's informal trails but there's formal trails and some people have told me that they feel very enclosed uh or they feel they're in the woods or very isolated and that actually can lead to feelings uh of of being not safe and whether whether that's to do with animals or the two-legged kind of animals lurking about. Um, is there a way that we can balance uh programming such as trails and areas where people go and enjoy the ravines because we're in an urban setting versus growing them incompletely uh and setting back and opening sight lines and light and so on so that uh there is some some design I don't know septed design principles would you be amanable to including those in areas where there's programmed uh human uses in these ravines? So through the speaker um councelor Holidayiday I think you've uh uh noted um and reflected well the variety of trails that we have throughout our parks and ravine system. Um some of those are paved and actively used for transportation and other purposes. Um others are what we might consider natural environment trails or informal trails uh as well. Uh likewise we work with our colleagues in parks and recreation to uh understand the the use patterns uh so that we can manage those appropriately. Thank you. Does Does anybody else have any questions? Okay. To speak. Who wants to speak? Put their name on the list. No. Councelor Fletcher, go ahead. Speak. Yeah. Speak. There's two things here. One is about the meadow way um which is a fantastic project that councelor Anginsley could talk to us about for at least an hour and a half and that is an invitation and that is to figure out how to join the ravine loop and all of the different trails uh with the meadowway. So it would be one continuous trail and the one of the most exciting places to be in the city and the other is just part of the loop that we've agreed to work on with Evergreen because the loop might be worked on by Evergreen but actually it's all city lands or TRCA lands but mostly city lands and all the hub areas are ones that are supposed to be very exciting and there's going to be activities developed there and I would not want to see all of those develop without all the hardworking counselors that spend so much time looking after our parks and our ravines. So that is to move counselors into this plan on the loop because I think that we were have been looped out in that way up till now and we'd like to give it as much support as possible be able to promote it and not feel that somebody else has a project on our great ravine lands and at our hubs. So that's I'll just go back to the meadow way and which is if anybody knows where that is it is the hydro corridor running throughout scar bro it's fantastic and we should have a way where we can introduce a connection so you could basically go around the city without ever having to go on a street or a road. you can go on fantastic trails through our ravines, through our parks, and up to the Meadowway and all the way to to the um Scarbor border. So, those are the two motions I'd like to make today with this and heartily heartily endorse the ravine strategy. Thank our staff for that and say it was so remarkable to see so many people come out and talk about their experiences in working in the ravines and cleaning the ravines, discovering the ravines. A woman said, "I used to drive all the way out, you know, two hours to the east, and then I discovered I didn't have to do that. I could do that right in the city because we have such fantastic green spaces, which were noted for." Uh, so that's it. Thank you very much. And those two motions to complete this item. Right. Thank you. Uh, seeing no questions, I have next speaker, Councelor Saxs. Yes, thank you. I have a motion amending the wording as suggested by staff. It's advance circulated. You start talking saxs. There's motion is right in front. Yeah, I'm moving this I'm just moving this motion. Staff have requested clarification, adjusting the schedule and uh um taking the city solicitor off, putting environment, climate, forestry back in and so on. Thank you. That's brief and precise. Uh, next speaker, Council Bradford, turn my mic. Good. Go ahead, Council Breford. Thanks, Madam Mayor. Uh, through you. Um, like everyone here in the chamber, I love our ravines. It's a it's a place my daughters and I often go to hang out, go for walks, play hideand- go seek in the forest. Uh, and we have one of the largest urban ravine systems of anywhere in the world. 11,000 hectares and 300 km. And I've always thought of them as these green ribbons that sort of traverse across the city. Lots of wildlife in our ravines. And so I think it's really important that we do everything we as can as a council to protect these spaces, to maintain them, and to invest them and make it easier for Torononians to enjoy them. And by and large, the Toronto Ravine strategy has been a major success. And I just want to acknowledge a a friend and former colleague of ours, uh, Deputy Mayor Jennifer McKelby, uh, who was the chair of infrastructure environment and really drove the implementation of this in partnership with staff and community advocates out in Beaches East York. We've got lots of passionate residents about the ravines who have stepped in and cared for these natural areas. Taylor's Creek, Smalls Creek, Williamson Ravine, Glenn Stewart Ravine. Um, all these groups come together and it's really the best of Toronto when people pitch in and lend a helping hand. And on the city side, we have to live up to our end of the bargain by supporting these partnerships with community groups like the Toronto Nature Stewards and making sure that we are providing adequate funding to work in partnership on the need for change and restoration, cleaning and maintenance. And so I really just wanted to rise and um offer some support to Councelor Sachs motion um the work that she did at committee and the amendment that she has in front of us here. Um, and of course the folks at Friends of Glenn Stewart's Ravine in my community who have been advocating for this motion to come forward uh and do everything we can to prevent encroachment and damage on these really important natural spaces. So, uh, I will leave it there at just under two minutes and turn it back to you, Madame Mayor. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Holiday. Where are you? Here we go. Go ahead. Thank you, mayor. I I've just put in a very short uh motion. Hopefully, it's made it through. It's one sentence. It's the city council requests that crime prevention through environmental design principles be incorporated. Wait, hang on. Uh sorry, the city the clerk had have not received your motion. Have you sent it in? I have. I did. I It has not arrived yet. Oh, here it is. Just one minute. It's one sentence. Thank you. Um, it is a it's a broad statement, but I just want to leave a point with this. Um the city's ravines continue to evolve and and will be changed through this strategy. One of the things that we have to always think about and this is to parks uh and others that take care of the ravines. Uh crime prevention through environmental design should always be a consideration and I think that it is. There's a couple of dimensions. that is ensuring there's the right balance in how the ravines take shape especially around places where human beings are around trails uh around uh social gathering places to make sure that people still feel safe and whether that has to do with encountering other people or encountering animals we just want to make sure that the ravines maintain the utility there's a second dimension to it if you speak to the Toronto police uh and you speak to anyone that's experienced this those people People that live uh with their properties abuing ravines sometimes see the ravines as a place used by criminals uh to do breakins. And I don't know that there's a magic solution to this, but I think that the city should think about it and be conscious that that is happening. And to the extent that we can help shape the environment there to help lower crime as it relates to people breaking into homes and using the ravines as an escape route, I think that we should think about that. So, the motion is very high level. Uh but it just it just puts another checkbox on the to-do list for people to think about it as they they plan uh work and activities in the ravine system. Thank you. Thank you, Council Holiday. Next speaker, councelor Anginsley. Thank you, Mayor. Um, mayor and chair. Um, I'm very happy to support the ravine strategy. As uh councelor Fletcher alluded to a moment ago, I'm the past chair of the Toronto Region and Conservation Authority, the current vice chair. I'm happily live on the south bank of the Highland Creek Ravine System. uh where every day I've seen coyotes, deer, foxes, you name it, in that re in that ravine from the the back deck of my house, walking through our ravine system. You know, often I get comments from people that go through the ravine system. Um they don't even know they're in the middle of the largest city in Canada. It's so beautiful, so natural. Uh, as councelor Fletcher also alluded to a couple of minutes ago, uh, I'm very supportive of her motion around the loop and connecting it to to the Meadowway. It's a project the Toronto Region and Conservation Authority has been working on for a number of years, naturalizing the Gatnau hydro corridor, and we've done that with the support of the Weston Family Foundation. Uh this is a 16 kilometer trail that's currently from the east end of Scar Bro that's going to go all the way to down to the Dawn Valley Parkway. Um so connecting it into the to the loop as councelor Fletcher mentioned is very appropriate. It'd be great to have a loop right around the city um so that more people can appreciate use our ravine system in uh in Toronto. So I'm very happy to support this. Um, I hope everybody will support it as well and uh looking forward to uh the continued work on our remain system. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Carol. Sorry, Madam Speaker. This is the first time I've spoken today. Uh, but I did not realize that I was the last person to speak. So, I have a quick amendment to councelor Holidayiday's motion, but uh it's not written yet, and it is simply councelor Holiday is moving that crime prevention uh uh through uh design principles be incorporated into the ravine strategy implementation. I'd like to amend that uh be considered for ravine strategy implementation because we don't really know what the literal impacts of proceeding to incorporate them would be. So I I if it's to be considered, I'm in. If it's not to be considered, but go ahead and implement. Can't do it. If it's a friendly amendment, then it is friendly. So if that can uh help with the clerks, you're be considered for incorporation in the ravine strategy. Yeah. because I I simply don't know what the impacts of that are. I really don't. To be instead of incorporate a incorporated strategy be considered for incorporation into the ravine strategy. Is that okay? I'm fine. Hey, the mover is fine. Okay. Yes. Okay. Thank you. That's fine. All right. So, let's put the motions on the screen and we can vote. Okay. Can Okay. Can we ring the bells? We're ready to vote. If I can have members of council come to their seats. Okay. The first motion Okay. The first motion is by councelor Sachs. All favor opposed. If any carry. Thank you. Next motion mo mo motion by councelor Fletcher on favor opposed if any carried counselor Holiday's motion revised. Okay, there it is. It's been re revised. All in favor carried. That's it. Item is amended. Recorded vote. Hi. Hi. Wait. Councelor Chang, please. Councelor Croanti And council call your vote please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The item as amended carries unanimously. 23 in favor. Next item is um councelor Pastronac IE 27.9 sorry IE 27.8 tree bylaw review. Are there questions to staff? Okay, questions to staff. If you have questions, if you can please put your name on the list. So, I want to focus. Hold on. Put your name on the list first. Okay. Go ahead. I'd just like to focus on the aspects of the report that refu refer to reducing uh the diameter range of trees for removal from 30 cm to 20 cm. Now uh what does this mean for those those trees that are under 20 cm uh or under 30 cm currently? Can they cut them down as they see fit as long as it complies with the diameter? Do they still need a permit? What What are the current rules for that? So through the speaker, the current rules of the private tree bylaw is that uh any tree 30 cm and above uh are protected by the bylaw and are hence regulated for uh tree removal, tree injury and uh compensation is required. Anything uh lower than 30 currently uh is not protected by the private tree bylaw. So homeowners can remove uh can cut down trees under 30 cmters currently through the speaker. That's correct. So your plan is to uh regulate it to the to such that anything over 20 cm could not be cut down by a homeowner. It would have to be brought to appeal. So through the speaker just to clarify that uh changes and uh recommendations in the report uh are related to in uh lowering the private tree size threshold to 20 cm meaning trees of that size and above would be regulated and would be subject to permit applications. Right now one of the first steps is for a homeowner to call the city and a Toronto forestry employee or arborist comes out to visit the site. So currently if someone is interested in removing or injuring a tree on their property, uh the first step is interacting with urban forestry to submit a permit application uh which has uh uh various uh information that our team would require uh to review and consider that request. Now correct me if I'm wrong. I I get calls from constituents that the uh the wait time currently at 30 cm is 6 to 8 weeks. Does that does that sound about right? So our service standard through the speaker uh for a private uh tree application is roughly 10 to 15 days. You you visit a site 10 to 15 days after the request has come in for a Toronto forestry representative to come to the site. So through the speaker uh the service standard is related to the first initial review of a permit application which may or may not require a site visit. uh but that is the that is our service standard for uh permit review. So when I'm getting calls of people complaining that they have to wait six to eight weeks, what what are they are they misunderstanding what you've told them or so uh through the speaker um in general if there is a longer wait um there may be uh it might be a result of incomplete applications more uh information that's required by the urban forestry team. Uh there could be some u an iterative process which uh which may take take longer. Okay. So, the the final word on tree removals that are not supported by staff come to community council. Has staff done any uh calculation on what the what the volume would increase if we go from 30 cm to 20 cm? In other words, if we put the onus on thousands, tens of thousands of more homeowners to work through the appeal process to come to community council. So through the speaker um we're estimating should council uh uh be interested in lowering this tree uh threshold uh we would uh experience about a 50% increase in applications. Um looking at trend analysis um in terms of denials of applications it's roughly 10% and about 1 to 2% of those are appealed uh by the applicant and then those go to community council for final decision. Are there any recommendations in this report for the changing of fees to homeowners or through the speaker? There's one recommendation in this report which is looking at introducing uh fees for ravine and natural feature protection applications which we currently do not have. Uh but we are not looking at changing fees at this time for the private tree bylaw. And finally, what would be your estimate of change in wait time if we go from 30 cm to 20? Thank you for that question through the speaker. That is why the report asks uh council to direct staff to go back to do that analysis so we can come back with more information and council can make a a decision with more wholesome context. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next questioner is councelor Holiday. Thank you madam deputy speaker. Um my question first question is about the change in diameter of tree. Do we have a sense of how many trees will now be captured by the change in diameter? So very high through the speaker very high level uh analysis has showed it's a potential for about 300,000 more trees uh to be protected should the private trees uh size threshold be lowered to 20. Those are private trees. How many trees are there that are captured by the bylaw generally in the city? I know these are very rough numbers that Nick through the speaker. I don't have that handy right now, counselor, but we'll we'll see if we can get that for you. Okay. So, that would be anything that's above 30 cm. That's correct. Okay. Uh do you know offhand how many private trees there are in total in Toronto? Yes. uh through the speaker. Uh city of Toronto has an estimated 11.5 uh million trees in total and 55% of those are on uh private property. Okay. Uh the another part of this report talks about uh I'm going to use the word grant but there's a financial incent. Yeah, it is a grant. Uh it's a grant program. Can you just elaborate on who's getting grants and for what? Sure. So the through the speaker the proposal in the report is looking at introducing uh a distinctive tree maintenance program on private property. Uh this will be in addition to the uh very robust uh tree planting and stewardship grant and incentives program that we currently run. Um in uh in summary uh the program is looking to support homeowners with up to a 50% uh subsidy uh for the costs of tree maintenance on private property for distinctive trees uh which we are looking to define as healthy and 61 cm in diameter uh and above. Uh we do uh the recommendation asks us to uh go away and and uh uh finalize the program and to pilot it uh beginning 2026 and to come back in 2027 with initial findings. How how many distinctive trees do you think there will be in the city? Um according to the 2018 tree canopy study, uh 2% of Toronto's urban forest um is in the size class uh of 61 cmters at diameter and above. So what does that mean? 2% of 11 2% of 11.5 million. So that's a couple hundred thousand at least. Yes. That's across the city on both private and public. Do we know how many would fall into then the program? We must for for this uh I'm sorry through the speaker through the for the subsidy program for the subsidy program if it's rolled out. Do we we don't know that? Uh thank you for clarifying. uh through the speaker um we are interested in what the interest and uptake would be for the program. So we don't have estimates at the moment on on who would be interested in uh applying. Okay. Well, let's assume everybody does. What do we have any idea of what our exposure is on this? So through through the speaker um again I think we uh the stats we could work with is are 2% um of the total tree population. Um and uh narrowed down to those on private property. Uh and and again I I'm not sure I can answer any more specifically until we get a sense of the uptake. 222,000. Okay. So, what what can a homeowner obtain? You said it was 50% of of cost, but what is there a limit on that? What what is the what's the dollars? What does it mean to me? Uh through the speaker, I think this is the work we would do through the pilot. Like other programs, we might define a cap in terms of the amount of funding that would be available, how we would accept applications. So it's not necessarily as of right program like many city programs where you apply and you get uh you know a support for distinctive tree protection. We'd be doing that work to find out what is that right size, what type of trees, what instances that we could be doing that that support for homeowners. Well, okay. So let's let's put this in practical terms. Uh I get someone out if I had a big tree to do some uh pruning that might do that every 10 years. That cost me a couple thousand bucks. How much of that couple thousand dollars would I expect to get? Do I get like a check for $50 or is are we are we talking half of that couple thousand dollars? Like what's the there must be some sense of what we're trying to do here. So I think as it relates to the the kind of the work that we're doing potential for development of a pilot, we're looking at something up to $1,500. But again, would that be available uh for everyone as of right? Is it an application process? Do we have some limitations around that? That's the program design we will be developing coming out of uh direction today. Okay. Thank you. I might try another question. Oh, look at I was trying to be nice to you and you got I got caught. Councelor Holidayiday. Um, councelor Chernos Lynn, can I have my mic? Thank you. Uh, so just to staff, it's understood that larger trees provide more significant ecological benefits than younger trees. They're larger, they provide more shade, have greater capacity for carbon sequestration, etc. But in a city with limited space, we know there will always be turn turnover in our tree canopy. And in fact, we see um some of our older trees starting to disappear. I think of the Norway maples and some of the older neighborhoods, for example. Um is there an associated risk for ability to replace older trees generationally as they die if we don't protect these sort of younger growing trees? So through the speaker um yes an urban forest is a dynamic system and through our canopy studies uh we do uh monitor different size class to understand that those dynamics and where younger trees should be uh growing to replace older trees as they mature uh and uh uh die either through natural or human causes. Okay, thank you. And according to the city's last tree canopy study from 2018, the majority of highquality planting sites across Toronto were found on private lands. That same report found that the proportion of public trees increased while private trees decreased. Has that tren trend changed since our last review. And would it be fair to say that this trend suggests that preservation of trees on private property has become a key element in our overall tree canopy and climate targets? So through the speaker uh you're correct. The 2018 uh tree canopy study uh showed an increase um in um planting need for uh public space. At the same time, it it uh noticed a decrease in permeable planting space. Um we don't have uh uh trend analysis um now but uh we are gearing up for a 2028 tree canopy study. Uh we undertake these uh very large complex uh and robust studies every 10 years. Um but what we do know uh now is that I think we could say informally that that trend is continuing. Uh and and another reason why we put uh funding and resources into our grants and incentives program um where uh we help uh homeowners and community groups uh with planting and stewardship on private land. Okay. Thank you. And uh one more question. Um it seems that there is precedent from other jurisdictions in the region for bylaw protection of trees lower than 30 cm in some cases even under 20 cm. What rationale have we seen from other municipalities for this shift to lower diameter thresholds for bylaw protection? And can you speak a little bit about um how you came to this decision? Sure. So through the speaker uh you're absolutely right. Uh each municipality should uh prepare and uh implement their own uh strategic forest management plan which is relative to the natural resources that they have uh within their jurisdictions. Uh when we set out to uh do this work and of course as were council directed to consider uh lowering the private tree size threshold um we looked to some of our uh GTA neighbors. Um some examples uh Richmond Hill is 15 cm, Burlington is 20 cm um New Market Vaughn uh are 20 centimeters as well. uh what we considered uh for uh unique to Toronto and unique to our own forest management plan uh our own uh council directed canopy targets uh and the natural resource uh uh assets that we have. Uh we came to 20 centimeters as an example of what would be beneficial to reach our targets uh and certainly representative of the data that we have through our tree canopy studies. Okay, thank you. So we are in line with what our neighbors are doing in other region regional m municipalities and in fact in some cases some of them are lower. Uh at the current time we have a higher threshold than uh many of our GTA neighbors. Um and uh the uh report before council for consideration uh is to endorse a lowering in principle uh and direct us for more information. Seems we're in good company. Thank you. Speakers. Let's go to the speakers list. Councelor Pastnack. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will be brief. I will not be supporting the recommendations one and two. I would ask that we do separate recorded votes on them. If this goes through, we will completely be overwhelmed. Uh at community council, we spend a great proportion of our current agenda on on tree applications. uh based on the staff uh numbers that they just given us, there's about 75,000 private trees per per community council. Uh even if we have a small percentage of those appealing to us, we will be completely overwhelmed. At the same time, this takes away the rights of private property, people to uh do renovations, do expansions, do multiplexes, to garden suites, expand their driveway. it'll be extremely difficult for about 300,000 more homes to to do those that work and those renovations if the if we go down from 30 cm to 20 cm. So um for those reasons uh and and more I think I don't I don't know about 10 to 15 days to visit to visit a site. I mean, we get calls about weeks uh before a City of Toronto arborist or forestry uh representative can come to a private home and inspect a tree and and write a report uh or make a decision on whether uh whether the tree deserves to be taken down through some kind of uh danger or illness uh or or whether uh and and write that report for community council. uh clearly uh a review of the fees is necessary but I assume that'll be incorporated uh into their work and on that basis I urge council not to support uh going down from 30 cm to 20 uh it'll hurt uh our work at community council. It'll hurt the rights of private uh homeowners. It'll hurt our economy uh because uh many of the people working in the forestry industry and the private sector will lose lose their jobs. And of course, it'll hurt the ability of homeowners uh to to renovate to uh build multiplexes, garden suites, expanded driveways, and other improvements to their home. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Council Sax Yes. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Uh yes, I'm rising to support the staff report. Um this report is a result of an enormous amount of work that's been done over many years. Uh we know that the summers in this city are hot and getting much much hotter. They're getting dangerously hot. We already had a recognition by our environment, climate and forestry branch working with Toronto public health that the biggest most lethal risk to the population of the Toronto of climate breakdown is heat. And the most effective response to heat is trees. We've got a council approved um policy to try to get to 40% forest cover again by 2050. And trees don't grow overnight. They need time to grow and we cannot achieve that canopy unless we protect the smaller trees and that includes that particularly includes the trees on private property which is where almost all of the trees are. So if we care about uh public physical and mental health, which I do, we know trees are important for that. Lots of research shows that being able to see trees, to walk around trees is a major factor improving people's physical and mental health. We know that it's important for the beauty and livability of the city. We know it's important for property values. We know it's important for equity. There's large areas of the of the city, including significant parts of my ward, that are tree deficient and need to have this tree cover that we take for granted in some of the other areas like Rosedale. We need it for comfort during extreme heat. We need it just for the pleasure of having birds. And in order to have that we've got to protect both the grand trees we have now which don't get sufficient protection and the little trees which are tomorrow's big trees. So um top three features here we have to get council's strong endorsement that we are in favor of protecting the younger smaller trees which are tomorrow's canopy and asking staff to come back to us next year with a detailed implementation report so that there's no point putting through a whole year's worth of work unless they have our support that we're going to go ahead and do this. Secondly, we need to add more protection to the largest, oldest, healthiest trees. the a unique role that the old growth trees play. We heard so much about this when we're talking about Queens Park North, how much people love the old trees, how much we need the old trees and they don't get protection. I spent many months a few years ago trying to protect one of the grand old trees that was on private property and we couldn't protect it and it was ruined. We need more protection for these trees and we have to do everything we can for it. And finally, the largest single complaint we got in this extensive public consultation is that there isn't enough enforcement. And one of the big reasons there isn't enough enforcement is the bylaw as we have it now is badly drafted for enforcement. So these amendments will give our staff the opportunity, the tools they need to actually enforce the rules that we have told them to enforce. Please everybody support this report. Thank you. Councelor Holiday to speak. Come on, run, run. Apologies, speaker. The uh speakers list moved as I was away. Um, speaker, I uh I don't support this and I there's a couple of reasons why. The first comment I would make and I am actually quite concerned is this notion of a tree grant program? I mean, what citizen doesn't want uh money from the city to help pay for costs? But there's some a few things I heard today that I had not heard before, which was 300,000 trees potentially are eligible. We don't have a sense of what the program is, but you know, it could be it could be thousands of dollars per tree. This is an enormous amount of commitment at this at this stage and I I'm not comfortable with that at all. But the second piece on this, and this comes from experience doing the work that we do as counselors in dealing with constituents that have very strong feelings about trees that are on their property. And for one reason or another, they might might want one to be taken away. And I can tell you, I'm very comfortable saying that we don't live in a city where there's people running around with chainsaws cutting down trees left and right. Generally speaking, citizens in the city value the the forest cover of the city. They value trees in their neighborhood. They value trees in their property. And they think real hard before they remove one. But there are times when it becomes a big problem. And it's very challenging and it's very heartbreaking to see the instances where somebody can't do what it is they dream of on their own land. This motion lowers the bar even further and moves more trees into that. And I'll put it into a different perspective. There are 300,000 trees that are out there today that are under the exclusive control of their owners. Uh as this system uh that's proposed here progresses, those owners will lose control of those 300,000 trees and they will become part of the social enterprise. They lose the right of that of of removing those trees or dealing with them as they see fit as their own as owners and members. I would say that this particular item is perhaps the largest and most profound thing that we're dealing with today. We we talk about important stuff at council all the time, including developments, including changes to our city, but on this particular council meeting, this is absolutely enormous. This touches 300,000 trees, and a subset of those are going to be multiple tens, if not hundreds of thousands of homes. I don't know how many how many people know about that. They're sure going to hear about this. But there's one last piece on this and this is the caution I've got. When you move aggressively like this, some of the reaction ultimately is going to be, you know what, now's the time to cut that tree down because I fear the government is going to grab control of it and that is it. And there's, you know, there's a little bit of a lesson already out there that with Toronto's what people feel are harsh tree laws, people don't plant trees on private property or they think twice when they buy a home because of the liability that trees bring because they've lost control over them. And so, be very careful about what you wish for. Be very careful what we do as a government. Be very careful about how far we reach into people's private lives. I understand all the lotable goals about protecting tree canopy, about wanting coverage, about wanting the value that plants bring us in so many different ways. But if you get into the business of regulating them more and more, there can be unintended consequences and we will lose some because of it. And I'm not convinced that we had a problem to start with. So speaker, this is a no for me. Thank you. Thank you. Councelor Mortley. Thanks, Madam Speaker. I'll try to be brief. I am standing today and rising in support of the recommendations before us and acknowledging the great work that has happened at infrastructure and environment committee uh along with the staff from the forestry department. I agree with my colleague councelor Holidayiday that this is probably one of the largest things that we're dealing with today because when we talk about the trees, this is an existential issue. Nothing happens. You can't own a home. you can't do any of the things if we don't have an environment, a natural environment that supports uh us being part of it. Um we know that our city is continuing to grow. We are under incredible growth pressures and communities like ours in Atobbico, which have historically been known and characterized um by the trees and the really healthy lush tree canopies that we all love about our neighborhood are continuing to be more and more compromised as we receive and absorb growth pressures in our ward. We are also on a flight path which we've talked extensively about in this council chamber in this current session. Um and we have ongoing issues around major weather events um for uh forest fires and other things that are compromising the quality of the air that ultimately supports our health, vitality and ability to live on this planet. Um, so when we talk about measures as a local government that we are able to take to strengthen uh our ability to survive uh in this city and in our communities and live in a good way while heat events are on the rise, while we need shade, we need cooling. We need clean air. We don't have any tools to clean the air. The trees are the tools. So we need to protect our trees. We need to follow good advice from staff. And frankly, this is actually overdue. Uh this work was meant to come back an opportunity for council a number of years ago. I believe 21 or 22 and here we are in 26 still having a conversation about how we can uh do better uh along with other jurisdictions in our area. So my residents and specifically shout out to the Long Branch Neighborhood Association who are incredible stewards of the trees. They do an annual event called Treefest. Uh they give out free trees. They survey the trees. They monitor the trees and they're really really important allies and advocates when it comes to the work that's happening at city hall, including the diameter um changes here before us. So, I look forward to supporting this. I hope my council colleagues will also support. Uh we are a city within a park. We do a land acknowledgement before every meeting and we need to continue to steward this land and the natural environment in a good way. This report allows us to do that. Thank you very much. for being brief. Councelor Churnis Lynn, thank you. I uh I first want to thank staff for their incredible work on this most important issue. Toronto's tree canopy is truly one of our greatest assets, beautifying our neighborhoods and making them more livable and contributing to healthy ecosystems. The value of our tree canopy is not just aesthetic or sentimental. There's also an affordability aspect to this. The ecosystem services provided by our trees, things like carbon storage, energy savings, pollution, pollution removal, avoided runoff, this is valued at roughly $55 million a year. Every day across the city, we see pressure put on our tree canopy. With competing demands on the limited space available in our city, trees are too often discounted as having lower value than other potential uses for space. If this is the calculation we make on every site throughout the city, we run a very real risk of compromising the integrity of our tree canopy. In addition to the expanded protections provided to trees, this report also provides grounds for enhanced enforcement for bylaw violations. This is a critical piece and I am so grateful to staff on this. Our protections are only as strong as the enforcement that backs them up. I won't go into detail about all of the updates because there are many in this report, but given our recent challenges in Dawn Valley West and across the city with a certain developer blatantly disregarding our bylaws with trees being removed in the middle of the night or behind fences on neighboring properties, enhanced enforcement is a welcome change. I also want to thank all of the residents of Dawn Valley West, including the Hogs Hollow Tree Watch, who have reached out to my office and engaged with staff on the issues addressed in this report. It is encouraging to see so many of the issues experienced in my ward alone addressed through the recommendations of this report. The efforts of residents to bring these concerns to light have made this possible and I am grateful for that partnership between staff, our community, and the ideas they bring forward. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, let's put the motions on the screen. Pass your neck. You've asked for a separate vote on one and two. Correct. Correct. Councelor Past. Yes. Okay. So, we're voting on one and two first. Councelor Pashnack, you want a recorded vote? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. One and two. We're both vote on one and two in one vote. There's something Mayor Chow and Council Cresanti, please. Council Chrysanti, your vote, please. Councelor Ganti, your vote verbally, please in the negative. Thank you. And councelor Cole, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. Parts one and two of the item carried. The vote is 18 to six. Okay. The balance of the item recorded. Councelor Fletcher and Councelor Chrysanti, please. Councelor Cole, your vote, please. Affirmative. Thank you. The balance of the item carries. The vote is 21 to three. Okay. Point of order. C. Yeah, it's uh 5:30. I'm going to move uh a break. Dinner break at Pardon me. Okay. Are we done? Yeah. There's a motion in front of you that I'm going to uh we'll take a break at 6, come back at 6:30, and finish the balance of the uh uh off the uh 28 items. I have three, but haven't we haven't we received them all yet? 25 items. On favor carried. Quick releases. Okay. So, we do have some members motion that we want to add that I agreed to, but you said no more. No, I said the ones that have been uh uh sent in. We'll do those now. I'm cutting it off. No more. No more after this. All right. Pardon? Councelor Moyes. Oh, Mo. Councelor Mley. Thanks, Madam Speaker. I do have an urgent motion related to an ongoing revetment piece of work. There's time sensitivities due to construction and permissions from other um groups and so just looking to provide to introduce that in favor carried. Deputy Mayor Malik. And the only reason that we said these ones because they were already submitted in. Okay. Deputy Mayor Malik. Thank you very much. Um I have a motion um to allow and enable the agreements around our hosting of the FIFA World Cup to continue to move forward and the urgency is that we uh are hosting the FIFA World Cup. Okay. All in favor? Okay. Next one. Councelor Matlo. Uh, Madam Speaker, uh, I'm moving the review of, uh, the applicability of type G loading to address specialized housing types. The motion is urgent as staff work on the item is currently underway and this additional direction is necessary to ensure specialized housing types are addressed in this work. on favor carried. Councelor Chang. Thank you. Uh this is just a a motion to stand in solidarity with Iranian Canadians in light of what happened today. Uh this would I think just be a balm to declare Persian Heritage Month as Ontario has already done and and Okay. Thank you. Do all in favor? Carry. Recorded vote. Okay. Recorded vote to introduce it. There he is. Councelor Cole, your vote, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The motion to introduce the motion without notice carries. The vote is 21 to4. Okay, we'll do quick releases now. Put your name on the screen. Okay, quick releases. Okay, hold on. Councelor Sachs, name up. Put your name up. Councelor Fletcher. Councelor Sachs, quick release. Uh, yes, please. Um, mm 39.6. Uh, section 37 funds for the TGC. Okay, hold on. 39.6 Council Sax is releasing on favor. 37 money for the TTC benches. Councelor Fletcher. Okay, thank you. TE 29.14, whatever that is. Oh. Oh, yes it is. T29 402440 Unwin Avenue official plan amendment appeal report. I have one motion to go with that please. Okay, hold on. Can we put the motion on the screen? Speak quick releases. T 2914. Quick. Okay, it's 2914. Thank you. I have a little motion there. Thank you. Okay. The amendments on the screen T2914 402440 Unwin Avenue. The amendments on the screen on favor. Post if any carried. And that move the recommendation and count item as amended. On favor carried. Thank you. Item 29.44 Jones Avenue. It is uh Jones Avenue parking amendments. Word 14. Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much to Mr. Curtis for assisting. And you're releasing that? Pardon me. I have a motion. No, I have a motion. Oh, can we put the motion on the screen? There it is. There it is. Councelor Fletcher's amendment on 2944. All in favor of the amendment carried. Item is amended. On favor carried. And then uh just for item 29.11, I was holding that. I didn't believe that it was dispensed with so and I don't see it on the holds. So I'm just flagging that um for clerks just it's here without 2911 is without a recommendation. It's on the list of remaining items. What I'm trying it is on mine. Okay. Is it wasn't on mine? It's on mine. It's here without a recommendation. Right. Is it on your digital list or your handwritten list? It's my paper list. Okay. It's my digital didn't have it. That's why I'm raising that. Thank you. So, you're What are you moving? I'm just making sure it's there on the digital list. But do you want to release it? Not yet. Oh, okay. It wasn't there. No, there it is. Okay. It's there. Come back. Something's come back. That's all items remaining. Okay. Fine. Thank you. and uh DM39.1 which was on all of the I forget what it's called the compensation package I deferred that earlier but what I'd asked council to do is reopen that so I can refer it to the city manager to do the proper work and then it would come back uh in a more refined manner okay that was the one that we dealt with yesterday yes yeah motion to reopen on favor okay and the new motion The new motion is to refer it to the city manager. To refer it to the city manager. I believe you have a motion there. I don't know what's wrong. I've sent a lot of motions today. I think you're getting them. Councelor BS. Do you have them? Okay. If you can just hold that down for just for one minute, they can get it. Is there anything else? Not just yet. No. Okay. Thank you, Deputy Mayor Malik. Very much. I would like to release PH28.1 150 Queens Warf Road, Toronto Build amendment. Let me find it. Let me find it. PH28 uh 150 Queens Queens Warf Road. Okay, you're releasing that. Yep. Thank you. Okay. All favor carried. That was uh PH28.1. Thank you. 150 Queenssworth Road. Is that it? Okay. Councelor Pastanac. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'd like to um release uh with some minor amendments cleared with staff and the chair of um planning and housing uh MM3913 improvements. Okay, just a sec. Let me find it. 39 improving design quality and neighborhood. Mmi 39.13. Uh, yes, there are some u minor amendments to the original motion if they go on the screen and I can release it. Okay. Well, let me just put the minor amendments on the screen. Okay. The minor amendments are on the screen by councelor Pastnac. Okay. On favor carried. Item is amended. On favor carried. Any more? Councelor Pastneck. No. Yeah. Councelor Cole, I have a release. Oh, okay. Hold on. Uh, councelor Cole, I'm going to councelor Perks first. Councelor Perks. That's true. Uh, speaker, after consulting with my colleagues, I believe I can now release PH28.7, advancing partnerships with the comm community community housing sector to build more affordable and supportive homes. Okay, councelor Perks is releasing PH 28.7 on favor. Carried with thanks to councelor Holiday. Okay. Anything else? No, I'm trying, but that's all I can do for now. Thank you, Councelor Thompson. Yes. Uh, thank you, Speaker. Uh, Speaker, I'd like to deal with uh MM39.35. One country, one flag. Okay, hold on. Let me find it first. Mm. Mm 39.35. Okay. One country, one flag celebration. Just let me find it on my sheet. Oh, okay. I was just reading it out until we found it. Mm 3935. Yes. Yeah. It's a motion by councelor Burnside, seconded by myself. Okay, I have a quick motion and I know that councelor Passnack also has a motion and I'd like to maybe just move my motion. We can vote on that and uh if Well, I haven't moved the motion. What What What question do you have? Is it quick then? Okay. So, then I'll continue holding it. I mean, you've had all day to ask me questions. You've spoken to me a million times. Please ask a question. I don't know what else you need, Councelor Mantis. Unless you want to come back tomorrow. Councelor Burns. Councelor Cole, I have a question. Yeah. CC39. Hold on. Councelor Brutza, we're going down a list here. If you want to release something, I'll get I think it's councelor Cole. But is that councelor Cole? It's easy to council. Something all afternoon. Okay. One at a time. He didn't let him ask his questions. He's still upset about that. What question? Never mind. Don't don't don't. Councelor Burnside. Uh CC 3910. Uh, it's already been circulated. It's a I want to move a motion with a confidential attachment. Okay, just a sec. Let me find it. Okay, there CC 3910895 Lawrence Avenue East, right? Yeah. So, I have the motion with confidential attachment. Okay, we'll put it on the screen. There it is on the screen here. CC 3910. Councelor Burnside is moving the confidential item. All in favor carried. And then item is amended. Recorded vote. Item is amended. Recorded vote. Recorded vote. Councelor Matlo, Councelor Croanti, please. And councelor Sax, when you're seated, please. Councelor Cole, your vote, please. Affirmative. Affirmative. Thank you. The item as amended carries. The vote is 23 to one. Okay. Thank you. Councelor Cole. I they finally I have U MM39.30 tax credit for vulnerable community institutions. Uh so uh have a micro amendment that we put up screen and we can vote on it. So, you're releasing MM3930? Yes. Okay. But I need a minor amendment. Yes. Okay. We'll put the um amendment on the screen. There it is. By councelor Cole. The amendment. Favor of the amendment. Carried. Item is amended. All favor carried. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Moley. Um, Madam Speaker, can I release my MM item on 53 Lakes Shore, which it was just added. I'm not sure if it's No, we don't have it yet. Wait. Okay. Sorry. Never mind. Councelor Matlo. Yeah. Okay. Just a sec. Councelor Matlo. Yeah, Madam Speaker. I've got a twofer for you. Um, I'm going to start with TE 29.4 uh 2004 to 2008 Bather Street. And I have an amendment on the item. Okay, we'll put the amendment on the screen. This is T29.4. Yes, there's the amendment by councelor Matlo. On favor carried and and that would be the item because it was here without a recommendation. That's correct. Yeah. Okay. And then, excuse me, the the next one is 2026 mm 39.65. But did you want to do the the other one? T29.5, which is the same address. You you held that one down, too. It's here without a recommendation. Oh, it's the rent a rental housing demolition. It's on the same item that you just released. Yeah, you can release that, too. Do you have an amendment for that one? You know what? Let's hold that. Okay, let's hold that for the moment because I just want some clarity on that. Okay. Uh and then um 39 mm 39.65. Okay, just a sec. Let me find it with a uh with an amendment. Okay, just just let me find it. 39 uh mm 39.65. Okay. Uh 55 to 75 Brownlow Avenue. Yes. Okay. And I have an amendment. You have an amendment. So we'll put the amendment on the screen. Okay, there it is. By councelor Matllo, mm 3965. The amendment on favor carried. Item is amend. That's the item. Oh, okay. Okay, that's it. Oh, councelor Thompson. Uh, yes, Speaker. I'd like to try this again. Okay. Which MM39.35? my colleague um councelor Mantis has indicated that he's satisfied. I have a uh motion that I'd like to move and then councelor Passmack also has a motion and uh Okay. So, what we'll put councelor Thompson's mo I'm sorry, councelor Chang, you'd like to what? Okay. So, is it short, long, or is it brief? I'm happy to hear entertain your comments now if you'd like. Let's get it done because Yeah, sure. Why not? a small speech. She wants to make some comments if we could. It's a Let's just do that so we can get councelor Thompson. Thank you. I'd like to move your move your motion. Your motion. Okay. Councelor Thompson. I'm just waiting for the motion to come forward. Um the motion is here uh speaker. Um I'm deleting um recommendations two and three and adding the following one which is here uh which is essentially um creating an effective day um with respect to December 1st, 2026. Okay. Yeah. And then councelor Pastionac, you have an amendment. Uh yes, I have an amendment uh that we honor uh only those current flag uh flag raisings currently booked and then uh the flag raising program ends. Okay. Okay. Councelor Chang, you you want to say a few words? Yeah. I just wanted to say that I really struggle with this decision because we live in the most diverse city in the world and they're going to look at all the cities around us that raise flags and when I go to flag raisings I see what it means to people because some of those people can't even go back to the countries that they came from and so raising that flag has a meaning for them and you know just like families relationships are hard diversity is hard and just because something is hard doesn't mean we should shy away from it. In fact, we should embrace the difficulties because that's how we build trust and relationships. So, I understand this is much easier to just cancel it all. And I understand why we want to do this because there's safety implications and costs with policing, but I do feel we are taking away one of the pillars of how we make this city beautiful in terms of the diversity and the tapestries that we weave together. So, I I'm grateful for the amendments that will allow for some more voices to be represented, but I do not support taking away all flags from the city of Toronto. People will really struggle when they look at Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Bmpton, and all of those counselors being able to raise flags and support of their local communities. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so let's vote. We vote on councelor Trump. Councelor Mantis brief. Thank you, Madam Speaker. So, I also I'm echoing the uh notion of uh Councelor Chang, and I'm also going to add that it's not the way that this um these amendments are coming uh forward. We're basically penalizing um 160 countries that we recognize uh in our city for a few or a few groups. So, uh I'm against the way that we're going about this. I think there should be consultation and uh we should be keeping status quo until the report is brought uh to council from uh protocol. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Let's vote. Count. Oh, come on. Councelor Meyer. So, this is not This is supposed to be a quick item. Councelor Meyers, it's a No, it's not quick. Let's Let's put C We're voting on councelor Thompson's motion. Please. This was a a quick item. No, Councelor Myers. Jesus. God. Go ahead. Thank you. I just want to say I echo my colleagues, Councelor Mantis and Councelor Chang. I think what we're doing is um something that a lot of Torononians take very personally as you saw from what happened today. I think we should be consulting the community and our our citizens on what they would like their flag policy to be. I've been to many flag pol flag raisins at city hall in Scarbo in Scarbo Civic Center and these are all sources of pride in the uniqueness and beauty of our city and I think that you know we're going to be the outlier. every other city in the GTA raises multiple flags to honor ethnic communities to honor celebrations and we're going to say no, we don't want that. And I I wonder why, particularly when we're the most diverse city in the world. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, let's just vote, please. This was supposed to be a quick item. Recorded vote. Councelor Thompson's motion first. Councelor Croanti, please. Councelor Cryanti, please. Councelor Cole, your vote, please. in the negative. Negative. Thank you. Motion one carries. The vote is 20-6. Um and uh so councelor Pastronac's motion is redundant. Um item is amended. All in favor? Recorded vote. Oh wow, you guys are very nasty. My god. Jeez, I know. Councelor, pull your vote, please. And the negative. The negative. Thank you. The item as amended carries. The vote is 19 to7. Okay. Our next item is IE27.9 updates on vision zero and uh councelor pastor held the item down. Do we but we only have five minutes. So do we want to do we want to wait? Okay. Why don't we just take our break now because it's 5 to 6 and sorry staff you can take your break and everybody everybody take a deep breath.

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