Transcript - Indigenous Center Screen Debate - Heritage Permit Review Sub-Committee

Indigenous Center Screen Debate - Heritage Permit Review Sub-Committee - March 24, 2026

check. One, two. Check. get you to start. Okay. Just let me know when Okay, go ahead, Karen. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Um, members of the public are advised that individuals and the media may be audibly and/or visually recording this meeting. I would like to call this meeting of the heritage permit review subcommittee March 24th, 2026 to order. Please note that quorum is present. Committee, you have before you the agenda for this meeting. May have a motion to approve the agenda as presented. I see Sandra and I see Andy. Is there anyone opposed? Seeing none, that motion is carried. Are there any declarations of interest today? See no declarations of interest. Yep. Okay. Okay. Approval of meetings of previous meeting minutes from uh Heritage Permit Review Committee meeting 26002 which is February 17, 2026. Um may I have a motion to approve the minutes as presented? Actually, before we do that, I did notice one typo. Was that and that was uh in the spelling of Matthew's name as an attendee. His last name was spelled incorrectly. and probably just want to tidy that up. And um other than that, is there um may I have a motion to approve the minutes as presented? Otherwise, see Matthew and Graham. Okay, thank you. And is there anyone opposed? Seeing none, that motion is carried. onto the heritage permit applications for this evening. So, they're found under section six of your agenda and um the first application for this evening is HP 2026004 which pertains to 27 Sidham Street in Dundas which is the William B. Martlin residence. It's a part four property and the application is for repairs to the front facade including replacement of one wood window sill installation of four new wood storm windows and installation of four new 1 ft deep steel window wells with crushed gravel. Is the applicant or representative the applicant here to speak to the application? Yes, I'm here. Oh, welcome Shelley. And um so normally what we do is we give um the applicant a few moments to speak if there's anything further they want to add to the story before we discuss it as a committee. Is there anything you'd like to add? Yeah. Um I I think there may u just just wanted to clarify. So um we have four uh sash windows on the basement level. Um, one of them currently has a storm window over it, but we wanted to put three uh storm windows to cover the the three that currently don't. Um, and all four of them do currently have window wells. Um, we're not redoing the window wells, but we had some water actually come through one of the windows um a little while ago, which caused caused some damage. Um, and so we're hoping to dig a foot deep down into the existing window wells and just add some um, stone just to increase the absorption. Okay. Okay. So, they're not actually new window wells. They already exist, right? Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um, are there any questions from the committee? Uh, Graeme, please go ahead. I'm unsure at the age of your house whether you have weeping tiles down around your footings or not, but if you do, wouldn't you be a little better for waterwise to put a pipe down so the water drains down to that area? Like in a modern construction, they would have a little drain in the bottom, take it down to the the weepers. Oh, okay. Um, I'm actually not sure. Um, but they're they're currently we have our our window and our window sill and there's only kind of a few inches between that and real problematic with snow and water. Yes. Yeah. I looked at those and I go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to do something. We understand that." But I mean, they give you a little better protection if you use like a PVC pipe 6 in roughly. They put a sock over the top of it, take it down to the area of the weeping tile. You don't have to go a big hole, just a little bit, and then you back fill it with the gravel like you want to do, and it allows the water to get out of there better. Yeah, I I suppose that that could be an option. Um, I guess we were uh advised that a potentially uh easier option or um could be simply just to dig down in the dirt which probably has built up over time and then also add the gravel so that it will absorb. Yeah, it's just going to store it for a short time to give it a chance to go out, but it's going to fill up pretty quickly with it still. It's not a a great It's a better situation than you're in now, but it's not a great solution. Okay. And with the height of your your grade, you don't have far to dig down to get down to those, I bet. Yeah. I haven't tried yet, so I don't know. That's a hole you're going to be in. So, you're going to be digging anyway. So, just try to go an extra couple of feet and see if you do come across your clay weepers. And if you do, you just got to put a little tiny bit of pipe in there. PVC sock over the top, then it will give you a lot better drainage in the long haul. Okay. But I I support your idea because you got to do something down in there. It's terrible. Yeah. Okay. Are there any more questions from the committee? Andy, please go ahead. Yeah, just to the chair, uh just uh some clarity really. It looks like there's quite a bit of uh stone um around. Is that a patio or is that just sort of a makeshift? Is that sort of a um window well per se um that it's trying to or is that part of a patio that goes farther out? Uh there's a there's a landing on the front and then stairs that go down and then the windows that we're trying to address are kind of at the um street street level. So sorry, I'm not sure what you mean in terms of the patio. Okay. I I'm just seeing a bunch of stone. So I guess the stone is what the makeshift um window well is. Is that just basically Oh yes. So the so the window wells currently there's um a few stacked stones like flat large stones. We didn't we didn't uh that was there when we uh bought the home. Okay. Uh so yeah. Uh, so through the chair, is your idea just to remove all those and then put in a uh like an aluminum type of um window well around it, but after you do the digging? No, we weren't planning on replacing or removing those. We were going to leave those intact and literally just dig a foot down into the dirt um if we can and add some crushed stone. Uh okay, that's all I have for now. Thank you. Um, are there any other questions from the committee? I had a question just just from what you said. Um, Michelle, it says uh the application seems to say uh deep steel window wells. So, are you adding like an a liner of steel around the No. So, what we did indicate that um there on the side of the house um we are hoping to add in a couple of window wells because currently we have windows which are inches from the ground. Um and and so we were hoping to dig window wells there. Uh though we were told that uh this uh permit would be about the the front only. But if if we want to talk about the side, we can talk about the slide. Okay. So maybe that was a leftover from that discussion then the steel part of it. M okay. Okay. Uh any other Oh, uh Alyssa, did you have a question? Yeah, through the chair, uh Alyssa Golden, cultural heritage program lead, just noting that, um yes, the the larger application submitted did include the side facads, which aren't a part of the designation bylaw for this property. So, our apologies for the confusion there about description. when we do process this permit after the subcommittee's advice, we'll clarify that in the final um final permit conditions. Thank you. Uh are there any further questions? Okay. Um Lisa, could you please put up the proposed conditions, please? And so these are the two standard conditions. Nothing surprising here. and just with a 2-year expiry date. So, may I have a mover and a secondary to recommend approval of heritage permit 2026004 subject to these staff recommended conditions? And I see Andy and I see Graham. Okay, thank you. And is there anyone opposed? Okay, I I see none. And Sandra, Sandra, with your um camera being off, I don't actually see you anymore. So, um I wouldn't know if your hand was up or not. Okay, great. Thank you. That makes it easier. Okay, so no one opposed. Um all right, then with that, that motion is carried. Thank you. All right, Michelle, thank you for coming in. Appreciate it. And uh it's a lovely little house. So, um yeah, thank you for joining us and staff will follow up with you then on next steps. Great. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you. Bye. Okay, our next uh application is 6.2 HP 20260005. So it's for 220 Slair Boulevard in Hamilton, which is part of the St. Clair Boulevard Heritage Conservation District. So, it's a part five property and it the application is for repair and reconstruction of masonry columns on the front porch, including repointing of existing columns, reuse of existing materials, the bricks, where possible, and removal and reinstallation of existing wood columns fa following masonry repairs. Is the applicant here or applicants here to speak to the application? Yep. I'm Patrick. come here. Okay. Welcome, Patrick. Thank you for joining us. Um, okay. So, is there anything you'd like to uh explain more about your project before we maybe have some questions for you and Alyssa? I I don't think so. My wife's downstairs uh if we do need her, but you know, we've been through a couple of these applications and this one um is just unfortunately some brick damage on the column and we're just trying to repair um as is. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, it's a a lot of pictures, so it's easy to understand what you're asking for here. So, thank you for that. Uh, are there any questions from the committee? Okay, I see. Um, we'll start with Matthew and then go to Graham, please. Go ahead, Matthew. Yeah. Hi, Patrick. Thanks for uh for joining us. Uh, quick question. I wonder if you could just make a distinction between the state of the columns. Uh are we uh are we looking primarily at one column or both columns? Um yeah, it is just the one column. Um it is the middle one as you go up the stairs. Um it would be on the left side, but yeah, it's just the center column uh that has I guess two wood columns above it. And if you want, I could pop up the pictures again. um I could probably point to with my mouse, but basically my wife and I, Alisa, were outside um with my son in the winter playing and um there's basically a shear line. Um so maybe three or four bricks look like the the mortar's cracked and there's basically like a shear where the column almost looks intact, but it's shifted a little. And then from the one side, you can see some buckling um of a few bricks. So, we went and temporarily jacked up the the porch above um you know to try to take the load off of it temporarily. Great. That was all the clarification I have. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Um Graeme, please go ahead. Yeah, just curiosity that missing half brick or two half bricks, you still have it. Um in that hole, it never was with the house. Uh there's a um as you go up on the stairs, the right column, there's a similar idea. I I don't know if there was a gate temporarily put in at some point, but there there's bricks that have been um that are loose but have been put in there. And then on the center column, they were missing. We do have more yellow bricks. Um they were under a deck and they're out in the shed now. So Oh, great. Yeah. I was just worried that when you put new bricks in it be visible from the street. Just wanted to make sure you didn't. No. And um even we talked with Fix My Brick, but also more um we we felt better with Murphy's Masonry and they said they have um a stockpile of yellow that will be very similar. So excess uh or that's like more back facing to the front if we need to like patch anything. I was going to suggest that, but you seem to be pretty hip on that, so I wasn't all that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they had a lot of solutions. So, yeah. Okay. Um, thank you, Graeme. Matthew, your hand is still up. I wasn't sure if that was from the previous question. Okay. Yeah. Or do you have a new question? No. New questions. Okay. Andy, please uh go ahead. Yeah, through the chair. Um, just curious if you're going to do any kind of color matching on the mortar. Right. Right now it seems to have a kind of a pinkish toned or whatever. Wondering if you're going to try to color match it or you're actually going to repoint the entire column. Um, we will do our best to match. Yeah, they said they could dye it and they they've done that before. Yeah, there's a red pinkish uh tint or hue to it. Um yeah, so they they were quite confident that they've, you know, done this before and um and and could match that pretty pretty closely. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And uh one last thing, I'm just curious on it looks like a vine that's um that's in the front garden. Yeah. I'm just curious if that vine is going to remain there. A lot of times b vines um have little suckers and they actually attach themselves into the mortar and uh if you try taking them out it's going to probably pull the mortar out with it. I'm just curious if you're keeping that or if that'll be removed. Yeah. So it's not in the mortar. There's like um I'm going to call it like a trellis that's sort of um aix to the brick and the mason said that unfortunately we likely would have to dig it up so that they can have access to the space. I'm going to try to take it down and move it the best I can. Um, but it is in fact not um growing into the mortar at all. Um, we've done a pretty decent job of keeping it tidy over the years. So, um, it does actually sit off of the brick, but we'll we'll try to take off that metal bracket and Yeah. And support as best we can. I didn't want that dying. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, thank you. That's all I have right now. Thanks. Thanks. Okay. Um, are there any more questions from the committee? Oh, nothing. All right. I have nothing myself. Um, uh, may we see the proposed conditions, please, staff? Thank you. Okay. So, um, what you can see is the two standard conditions and then an additional one about that the proposed masonry restoration work conform to the city's masonry restoration guidelines and the final details and specs be submitted. So, um, that pretty much might address all the questions about what bricks going to be used and that sort of thing. So, and the color of grout, which is great. Um, so may I have a mover in a seconder? Um with these um thank you Kira. Um mover in a secondary to recommend approval of heritage permit 20260005 subject to these staff recommended conditions. And I see Carol and I see Sandra. Thank you. And is there anyone opposed? Okay, I see none. So that motion is carried. Okay. So um Patrick Alisa, thank you for coming in. appreciate continued care of these heritage home you have. So and um staff will be speaking to you then on next steps. Okay. Thanks everybody. Thank you us. Okay. Bye bye. Bye. Okay. Uh now for our third uh permit of the evening. HP2026007 for 3027 Homestead Drive which is the former well it is the Mount Hope Library actually which is a part five part four property. So it is designated and the application is um for renovation and restoration of the building including masonry and stone foundation repairs including repointing, cleaning and waterproofing, reintroduction of the front window and arch transom opening, installation of new triple glazed windows in the existing masonry openings, removal of existing canopy over the front entrance and installation of new aluminum doors. installation of solar panels on the rear roof slope of the building and reintegration of the original tongue and groove ceiling into the interior space with combination new period style pendant lights and surface mounted lighting. So, um is the owner and or applicant here to speak to the application? We've got uh Emma, are you here to speak on behalf of this? and Megan. Actually, Megan's going to Okay, great. Well, welcome to both of you. And um Megan, is there anything you would like? Excuse me, Karen. Oh, yes. I didn't I didn't realize Megan was going to be here, so I'll have to put a non uh for the word now. Non-disqualifying uh conflict. Mayor and I both serve on the local organization committee for the future heritage committee or the her Ontario heritage conference coming up. I just wanted on the record that so nondisquisqualifi is that um staff is that how you would um assess it uh through the chair. Yes, I believe it's a non-disqualifying interest similar to declarations at the main heritage committee and staff can note that and give you that language Karen for the minutes. Okay, great. Thank you and thank you Graeme for bringing that to our attention. Okay, which which you are all invited to. Exactly. Okay. All right. So, um All right, Megan, is there anything you would like to add to um the introduction? Sure. Uh good evening, everybody. Thank you for having us. Um I did send a presentation through to staff just a few minutes ago. I don't know. Yeah. So, and I'm happy to just kind of walk you through. Yeah. maybe, you know, five 10 minutes maximum. Would that be okay? Yeah, I'll go through quickly for sure. So, um it's a part for designated property. Uh and these are the alterations, interior alterations, deep energy retrofits, accessibility upgrade, masonry cleaning and repairs. Part of the deep energy retrofits will be insulation, new windows. Um uh and so we'll go through I'll go through that with you a little bit. Project teams listed there. Um so the next slide please. So um yeah there we go. So this is the condition above. So the building was built in 1904 as the first purposebuilt uh council hall for Mount Hope. So for the township. So it's a significant building. uh but it was has gone undergone quite a few kind of unsympathetic alterations over the years. So in 1959 they built a one-story addition at the back which is attached directly to the back fits nicely but um it's uh is in need of repairs and the the town hall itself has had some alterations that are less than ideal. So on the left, uh, that little photo they show, it shows you how they lowered the front entrance so it was that grade and then put a canopy over the door and then put a new aluminum door in. When they did that, they filled in the transom up above with brick. And the window on the left side of the door has been bricked in also because there's a safe inside behind that area. So they just filled it in. So, part of the renovations will be to restore those features. Uh, and then there's I'm just showing a little detail of the windows. So, the windows that are in there now are not original windows, replacement windows, and they're kind of a vinyl window with a kind of um a threepart division with a sort of semic-ircular fixed panel at the top and then a sash below it. And then the basement window is kind of a one over one. If you look at the historic photo, you can see that it was more of a a rounded top, just a one over one sash. And in the basement, I had those nice sort of three um vertical panes uh with the vertical mullions. So, uh, what we're hoping to do as part of this project is not only are we going to improve the library space by renovating, um, inside, uh, and making the library area larger by extending it into part of the community center that's attached to the back. So, the library space will be bigger. It'll all be refreshed. Uh, and some of the, uh, heritage elements in the interior will be restored as well. And so as part of that, we'll also some make some improvements on the exterior. The other thing you'll notice about the um unfortunate changes that have been done over the years is that the brick has been painted. So there's actually a paint coating on the brick um which uh we're suggesting that uh be removed as part of this uh enhancement. Uh next slide, please. So this is kind of what it looks like inside. On the top is the library space. Right now you can see there's a sort of lowered ceiling with a fluorescent lighting. The idea is to remove all of that. And up above there is a original tongue and groove ceiling that will then be visible. So that's going to be a major sort of improvement. The wall on the right hand side of that image will be the area where they'll be extending back into the community center. And the photo down below is the community center, which is this kind of 1950s hall space. So, they're going to um enlarge the library space into the first two bays of the hall. So, the hall and the library will still be separate spaces, but they'll uh the library space will be a little bit bigger. Uh, next slide, please. So a part as part of the retrofits. So the the heritage portion will be insulated on the interior side of the wall but at the rear addition the insulation can be added on the exterior side because it doesn't it doesn't not a heritage attribute. The addition at the back is not included as a heritage um within the designation. So the the approach is to use this um sort of graphic pattern on the rear edition uh with new cladding with insulation underneath it. So that'll be over top of the brick. And I'm just showing you the sort of connection point where that uh sort of takes off to the addition. So there'll be the modern cladding up to the historic masonry and then the historic masonry will be cleaned and restored. Uh next slide please. Um and and one of the other ways in order to um make it more um sustainable is to have um solar panels installed on the roof. And the way that they're doing that is to put the most most of them on the flat roof of the rear edition to get the uh energy savings that they're looking for. Um and then um limiting the ones on the heritage roof to the back slope of the roof. So from the street you won't see them, but there'll be some on the back slope just to get added performance from the uh solar panels. So this is um a drawing of what it'll look like from the front. And this was um I think this I had an option B uh but I'm not sure that you've got the right version in here. So we were Yeah. So this is the final We'll just look at the rendering. So this is the final kind of look with the um graphic pattern at the back in a kind of a pallet that references the heritage building. The clean stone uh the replaced windows um and then from the interior you can see that tongue and groove ceiling now is visible and then new pendant light fixtures that kind of are fit in with the style of the building 1904. and then this kind of expanded space that goes into the first part of the uh community center. Um yeah, so that's that's where we are and we're looking for any um input that the committee has in terms of some of the heritage details. Thank you, Megan. It's a great project. Um may I um thank you for stopping sharing. Okay. So now I can see the committee. Um do we have any questions from the committee to uh the applicants? Seriously, none. A lot a lot to see. No, I think that's No, I mean they did reading so they did you know they had lots of time to think about it. Graham, please go ahead. I was gonna make a comment while you're so quiet. You've actually done a good job. I think the only kind of question you might have is on the windows, you're going to have dividers in it to kind of make it look like it's panes. Yeah. And that's about it. You're restoring everything back to original except for the entry is not going to be as high as it was when the building was built. I can't I can't say there's anything wrong with your ideas, Megan. I think it works really well. Yeah. These are Emma's ideas. This is Invisigious design. Yeah. And it's I think it's really going to really enhance the heritage building. Um it's a wonderful opportunity to restore heritage elements as part of the larger project. Yeah, it looks stupid with just that one window bricked in. It really looks offbalanced and just bringing that back's going to help and getting the round windows back in the front going to help. It just balance it all back out. I don't see anything wrong with the idea. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Emma. Please go ahead. Um through the chair. Um I I just want to also highlight that this is the first project in Hamilton that is um trying to um convert to net zero as a way to meet the city's climate targets. And it's interesting um that we the first project would also be a more complex building that's a heritage building. So hopefully by being able to do that on this building, it'll be easier for future buildings that that are part of the city's inventory. We're actually working on Ancaster Senior Center now, too, to do the same thing, which isn't a which is not a heritage building, but same idea of making it net zero carbon. Nice. Hopefully you see more of these. Okay. If they're all if they're all executed as successfully, I'm looking forward to more heritage buildings being brought back up to a modern standard. Yeah. Yeah. Not not modern standard way above. Yeah. This is net net zero carbon future standard. Yeah. Okay. Uh are there any other questions from the committee? No, I don't see any. Okay. Um, yeah, I don't have any questions myself. I thought it looked wonderful when I was reading about it. So, I think it's really exciting and it's going to be so much more beautiful. So, it's lovely. Um, okay. Well, with that um being said, then may we see the uh proposed conditions for this application? So, the two standard conditions which are the this the last and the second to last and then the different ones are that the final specifications for the proposed replacement windows be submitted and that the masonry restoration work confirmed to conform to the masonry restoration guidelines. So, you know, both make perfect sense here. Nothing too out of the ordinary. So, with that being said, um do I have a mover under seconder to um recommend approval of heritage permit 20260007 uh subject these staff recommended conditions. And I see Andy and I see Graham. Okay, great. Um Graham and uh is there anyone opposed? Okay, seeing none, that motion is carried. Lovely. Thank you for the input everybody and thank you for the presentation. Um, thanks everyone and um yeah, so staff will follow up with you on next steps. Appreciate seeing taking the time. Thank you. Good night. Yeah, good night. Okay, so that is the last um application for this evening and then we have a pre-conultation. So, um this is a big project and um so the it's um item 6.4 pre-conultation for 77 gauge Avenue North in Hamilton, the former King George School, which is a part four property and um it is this consultation is for discussion of the uh adaptive reuse and continued conservation of the property. So, uh, I assume we have some people here to speak to this application or this pre-conultation through the chair. You've got several. So, my name is Jennifer Roth. I'm a senior business development consultant with the city of Hamilton, working on this project alongside my colleague here, manager of indigenous relations, Beth Dockator. And we're joined online by several representatives um from the Hamilton Regional Indian Center as well as um Ontario Aboriginal Housing Services and then a consultant from Aoke uh Dimma. There she is. Thanks Audrey for being here. So, I just wanted to set the stage really quickly and also ask the chair for a little flexibility on time because it is such a dense project and I'm sure you're all very interested in the details and the work underway. Um, so this is a piece of land that the city owns. We acquired it a handful of years ago um from the school board. The building has sat vacant for a number of years and in 2021, councelor Nan put forward a motion for the city to work with um the Hamilton Regional Indian Center as well as Ontario Aboriginal Housing to explore the feasibility and viability of adaptively reusing this building for the relocation. ation of the friendship center as well as housing to create a social service establishment a hub concept. Um so we've been working with Evoke Architecture on looking at um ensuring the programmatic needs of the communities can fit on site as well as ensuring that the cultural needs of the community is reflected here. So, I'm gonna turn it over to Dimma because she is the real expert and can talk about the proposed changes to the building. She's done a ton of work here. It's a very beautiful um vision that we're working towards here representing some reconciliation efforts. If I unmute myself, thank you very much. Um um I'll just present a voke just very very quickly. Um, we are a firm that specializes in heritage conservation as well as working with First Nations and Init. So, this project sort of fell very nicely within our specialties of our team and we're very excited to present it here today. Um, and of course my screen is not there. We go. Um, just to go over our presentation very quickly. We'll go over what the existing property is, what our proposed development for the property um is as is and discuss as well some of the impacts and conditions um for conservation. Um the existing property as uh mentioned it is a part for designated property. It's located right near the stadium um and as well right near a very large uh parking lot that belongs to the school. It's at the end as well as you can see here to two residential streets and along Gage Avenue. From the exterior, the building is designated for its Edwardan classical style. It is in fact a very classical early 19th century school uh in its architecture form and organization. Um the exterior of the building is generally intact. The original windows are however gone and replaced and cut off. But on the whole, the building from the exterior retains a lot of its original character and condition. The interior of this school as well is fairly um been fairly well preserved. Uh we note in the designation as well as you just walking through the building its original finishes. It's um a lot of woodwork and baseboards and you know cast iron stairs and as well as the general interior arrangements of the rooms. The proposed development really seeks to reinvision and reimagine what this building can be for the future and as well to have it suit the community that it's going to house. We are faced um with a school building with a very particular and unique challenge of how does one adapt a building that is associatively challenged in its history of that typology. So not necessarily that site, but that building typology generates a lot of strong sentiments and strong feelings relating to the residential schools and colonial legacies. So we are faced with sort of an architecture that in a way fights and contradicts what we want to house and put in the building and have it be a home and feel like a home for the indigenous friendship center that's going to house it. So we're dealing with this kind of very strong um contradictions between the solid architecture of the building that is designated and the new uses of how this building can be completely re-imagined and retransformed to actually have a new life where the first interaction and the first vision of the of this building will be for the indigenous communities that will take it and make it of their use for um decades to come. So the vision really based is on this idea of how does one create a dialogue between those two histories and how does use how does this building can be used really to fit into this larger spirit of reconciliation. The site in itself the school sighting is um uh just a long gauge and there is a great opportunity on the site to add housing for the um uh indigenous um or aboriginal housing association. So it's a um a joint use between the R sorry HR and the OS but to have both the friendship center and housing as well um in relation to it. So in addition to the adaptive reuse of the project, we're also proposing a um a housing addition. We look at the existing friendship center. The most change we're proposing on the interior of the building is to the ground floor. We are opening up a number of the classrooms to create a space that can really be used um fluidly and flexibly by the community. The basement floor and the second floor are staying virtually intact with their rooms being reprogrammed. But I'm presenting here the I the spaces that are having the most radical change. Most one of the major ideas is to actually have we need accessibility in the building. So the main entrance is being rethought of to um the entrance here so that we can come in and have an elevator come and bring people up to the ground floor. It's a split level building in its organization. Coming opening up into a very large reception area, some flexible programming space, a library, and then one of the key parts of the programming is food and making food and having a kitchen and having the space to gather a very large numbers of the community. So we have this very very large kitchen and um dining area that will be flexibly used for multiple things but really serves as a part of the building and the community. On the second floor it's mostly office spaces with some meeting spaces so that um multiple groups come and use um the building to um for their own community meetings and for their own sort of organizations. And on the basement floor, which is a large semib, there's an elder center and there's also a sort of high school for indigenous schools. So there's classrooms and there's a educational location to the building, a community vocation to the building as well as a sort of just a welcome center and um dining and location. And the main idea is to have this whole reinterpretation of the historic architecture into a way that can really um have present a new identity. One of the main and principal ways to do it from the exterior of the building is really an approach of revers that is reversible. So while it looks as a significant change to what the identity will be building should be from a conservation perspective, it is a reversible intervention. So looking at putting art within the windows themselves. So these are all non-original windows that are currently partly obscured. We're looking at putting film. So it would be semi-transparent film that would represent local artists um within all the windows and adding onto a build the building a screen that allows for this new identity. So the screen does not affect the masonry because it'll be proud of it. It'll be um very lightly attached either from the parapit with some attachments to the ground and it provides an opportunity. We've provided this idea of the moccasins is not the final result. This is all a work in progress as to what the final expression will be. The screen also provides um adds an an opportunity to create an outdoor space as a balcony. So at the ground floor where the reception and main welcome center is, we'd be lowering the sills of the windows and creating sort of this exterior projecting balcony space to have this interior outside space within the building itself. Other interventions to the grade are the addition of um you know artwork on the grounds creating meetings places and um circles of uh gathering and fire space on the exterior. There's another view of the building. So looking at here, these uh the windows that are at the front at grade would be lowered creating this balcony space that would allow some interior outside space as a protected um uh a protected exterior space. reimagining the front of the building, keeping all the trees but integrating within them. Um, public gathering spaces which also help re give the building a new identity and also serve as sort of a buffer gathering space with the community itself because it will be open to other u members of the community. And this is the sort of reinvisioned interior space. So when we come in the footprints of where the walls used to be that these are walls we would be removing to actually create this large welcome space. The le the legibility of the corridors at the ground floor and the old classrooms would still be like understood but we are in fact creating a fairly significant change in how we are opening it up. And these are the windows that are being lowered to create the sort of exterior space that's protected by the screen. The housing addition is really conceived to form a counterpoint to the heritage building. Um so there's sort of this broken up facade which would be in wood. So the rigidity of the heritage building is countered by a more fluid um facade to have that sort of dialogue between them. There's also a bridge being proposed between the two buildings because the amenity spaces for the um uh people in the housing residents will be actually their ability to use the community center. Um the housing provides accessible units as well as one and twobedroom um apartment units. Um there's 34 units being provided within it with some parking also below grade or below the below the units themselves. This is sort of a vision of what the housing can look like. And then looking at the landscape development, which is really about having spaces for gathering, having sort of a weaving interaction, creating buffers and um screens that help mitigate the transition between an indigenous landscape and a more traditional colonial building. And there's another view sort of proposed of the landscape. So at this level, this is sort of a highlevel feasibility study of the design. Every bit of this design still require refinement certainly for their final artistic expression because this would be done very much as directed and with the help of the community. So this is not about us telling anybody what it should look like. It's going to be about the community themselves determining how the art should look like. uh what the final expressions of the building would be and how in fact all the uses of the land and um will uh how this mitigation between community building and landscape um will occur in the front. In terms of impact assessments and conservation approach for the actual building itself on the pure conservation side there is uh a lot of restoration is being proposed. The building is sort of has been left empty for a number of years. There's repairs to the exterior masonry that are needed. There's the replacement of all the windows that have been blocked off. So to actually recreate fully um glazed windows, albeit with a film of art on them. There's the replacement of all the existing mechanical electrical systems, the replacement of the roofs, um a lot of interior repairs, the finishes that need to be done. So all that is being integrated as part of the project. And then in terms of the intervention, it's really about the programming of the spaces. There's a lot of effort being made to find compatible uses for the individual rooms and classrooms in a way that we could limit the amount of demolition. And I think the the in the and to actually focus most of the change to one floor so that the other floors could remain um more intact. um all anything that is art or integration onto the building such as the screens are done in a way that is fundamentally reversible in the way it's going to be anchored to the building and can be removed. um more you know drastic or um stronger measures of demolition of walls. The where the walls used to be will be marked and sort of indicated and um art and other uh integration into the building is also um all generally reversible and fairly minimal in the intervention by ideas like such as painting the floors or adding art onto the floors. The addition itself is conceived also to be sympathetic to the original building. Its scale and its height are lower than the existing um building. The floor levels were also calibrated so that they actually have some direct relationship with the pasel as they connect between the two. The materials are chosen to be sympathetic and compatible and the ex the the addition of the building does not in any way detract from the understanding and the vision and the sighting of the original building on the site. And this is sort of a final image of the residential edition with the school. And that brings us to the end of the presentation. Okay. Thank you, Dimma. I'm gonna stop sharing so I can see everyone. Hold on. Sorry, I have to find the stop share button. There we go. Excellent. Okay, thank you. Um, all right. Uh, jeez. Is there any comments from the committee? Anybody like to make some Okay, so we'll start with Carol and then we'll move on to Graham. Please go ahead and then Matthew after that. So, please go ahead, Carol. Okay. Um, yeah, I reviewed this before the meeting. So um I had a couple of questions which have been answered by um the presentation but I I still um have a have difficulty uh with the fact that this is um an Edwwardian classical school um which is a very fine example of its type and that um I mean I I really like everything about the proposal you know I even the residential part that you know is the right scale but it isn't it isn't sort of similar, but it doesn't matter. Um, the what what you're doing with the inside, I think, is is great to accommodate those programs and and uses. Adaptive reuse is of course just so so important uh to keep our heritage buildings. But the one thing that I I just I can't get my head around uh is that you're covering up uh a lot of the um the uh original school building with a screen. um in order and I think I understand it's so that when you look at it the indigenous people won't be reminded um I can't see using a building um to do that. In other words, the building is actually in because we're a heritage permit review committee. The building is what we're here about. Uh we're here for uh the heritage building and um um keeping its integrity. Um, and there are a lot of things you can do and we've seen those things and you're doing them and they're terrific, but the screen I uh myself um I can't see that it's going to serve the purpose that you think it's going to uh it's just going to look like half of the building's covered over with and I don't think people are going to understand it at all. Even if the users may understand it, I just I really question that motivation and that that rationale behind covering up a big a big portion of the architecture. So that's my major comment. The rest I think is terrific. Okay. Did did you want to comment? Um I can respond. We have screens. um similar on buildings before um to allow like art integration within the building and onto the building. Um they they have worked and obviously this is these are very like what we've shown here are highlevel sketches. Um there is a we are like we are sort of and I and I understand I understand the keeping the integrity of the building and I understand that um intent and the need to do so and we're sort of we're we're taking it twofolds like in a different interpretation. One is we're trying to keep the physical integrity of the building in which whatever is being proposed is completely reversible and we're coming at it in the sense that we're going to restore the masonry and restore the windows and restore the physical condition. the building it retains a physical integrity and then as for the visual integrity of the building that you are correct. We're taking a bit of a radical approach um so that the building can have a new perception and a new identity layered onto it. And we're hoping that between the sections of the building that remain visible, like the half of the building that is un that will not have a screen and the part of the building that will have a screen, that there will be kind of that dialogue and understanding that through the screen we'd still be able to see um the original building, but you it's like a very literal interpretation of layering on um a new history and a new identity onto the building. Um, yeah, you said that it's been done before and I have seen it done before, but I haven't myself seen it done to a designated building. Um, are you talking about designated buildings or a building that you know that you've um changed or whatever? Uh it was no the building I'm I'm that we've done recently was not a designated building but it is a building in which we added a screen onto it with art on it in order to sort of provide the building a new interpretation for the community. Yeah. One of the things with designated buildings is I'm sure I'm quite sure that in uh the uh Ontario Heritage Act that um I don't I don't really uh I know the the act very well and um I I don't I don't see that um covering a half of a building over with a screen is um is really a part of preserving the building. Um, like I have no trouble with art on the building and no trouble with the windows having art. I think that's a great idea because you still see the shape of the building. But in terms of the Ontario Heritage Act, it is um uh that that's something that, you know, covering it covering half of the building in order to get rid of half of the association of what it was is it's it's not recommended. It's I don't even know that. Um I mean I'd have to look into the ramifications of doing that the with with uh the act, but um I I would really hesitate um to just to do it without looking into that. And as far as it being an art screen, um I couldn't tell. But it doesn't mean no one can tell. It just I couldn't tell those were moccasins. I thought they were running shoes or something. and I couldn't understand why there were footprints all over the building. So, um I think the concept, you know, and why you're doing it is is quite it's very interesting, but I don't think it's I don't think it's actually working in terms of the art and I don't think that that it's something that is really allowed uh on designated buildings according to the Ontario Heritage Act. I would say look into that more. Look into it more. And if if you're going to do a screen, which which I wouldn't do, but anyway. Um I think the art should stand out more, but I wouldn't do a screen there. I would do a screen somewhere else. Like maybe, you know, if you want to show art, there's there's other places to show the art. You know, there's the housing building. And I I don't know. I I just think it's such a fabulous project, and what you're doing, I think, is so imaginative. um that I just I'm just sensing that this particular uh introduction of of this is really going to throw the whole thing in terms of uh people looking at it and saying what the heck is that? Um and you're not going to have, you know, uh people explaining what that's that means. I mean, I would be myself very um sad to see half of that building covered up. So that's that's my comments, but I I do you do have the Ontario Heritage Act to refer to because that's what we go by. We we that's what we go by in this in this committee. So it's it's just a kind of thing where um you know, you want to follow the guidelines and follow the the you know what the act is recommending and not recommending and saying you can't do a designated building. So anyway, thanks for listening. Thank you, Alissa. Do you have something to add to that? Fabulous. Yeah, thanks Karen to the chair. I just was going to note um uh and this is something obviously this is a pre-conultation so it's great to get all this feedback from the subcommittee and I know there's more comments to come. Um in terms of the Ontario Heritage Act, it allows us to designate properties and then manage change to designated properties through the heritage permit process. There are no specific requirements or limitations on what those changes can be under the Ontario Heritage Act. There are then subsequent standards and guidelines like Parks Canada. Um there's there's great guidelines from the province as well in terms of best practices for the conservation of heritage buildings more broadly. Um so certainly we would be looking for as staff as a part of a future application ensuring that any assessment of impacts is looking at those best practices discussing what those impacts are what has been sort of looked at in terms of mitigation measures to balance that change and then it would be the subcommittee heritage committee um potentially to council depending on the scopes of work that would then um provide comment on the appropriateness of those proposed changes. Okay. Thank you, Alyssa. Um, Dimma, did you have anything further you wanted to just say to Carol before we move on to the next comment or No, I mean, this screen that's being proposed currently, as I mentioned, is not the final design because the moccasins were put on there as an idea, but that's on up to me to decide what the um visual identity of this building will look like. it'll be up to um the users and the indigenous communities who use this building to actually define their own visual identity for this building. So, we're providing it as a placeholder to sort of give the idea of what it could be. Um and then you know everything from the how they're attached to the opacity and expression of the screen is all you know the work in progress. But yes, we are very cognizant of the standards and guidelines and yes um okay measured application thank you DMA. Um okay our next comment was from Graham. Please go ahead Graham. Well thank you for coming to us with this uh wonderful project. It's definitely uh good to get a use back into that building. On my first term on the municipal heritage committee now my third we lost a beautiful man to St. Thomas Anglican Church because we tried telling the indigenous community what they could or couldn't do with their building. And I don't want to lose this building for the same stupidity as what happened before. I have no concerns over that screen because you're not changing the fabric of the building. You're changing how it looks. We should not be telling people how the harms should be handled from colonial times. The inter intergenerational harms were actually there. We know that. And if the the people who are using that building don't want to be reminded of the colonial past, we should allow them to use the building that serves their community best while not changing the building. And they're not. They're merely screening it off so that when they walk up to the building, the harms that were put upon that community aren't as obvious to them. I am not going to tell the indigenous community and the urban indigenous community what should and shouldn't harm them. We've already done it. So let's get in the reconciliation mode. Let's understand what they want to do to their building and that's my comment. Thank you Graham. Appreciate that. Um Matthew Yeah, thank you uh for that wonderful presentation. Um and uh the detail and thoughtfulness of the proposal uh is is very noticeable. So uh really looks really exciting. Um I'm wondering if uh is part of the planning uh if there'll be um discussions uh with uh the um developers and and minds behind other adaptive uh reuse projects uh in Hamilton um that were in partnership with uh indigenous communities. Uh I think of the um Naid Na affordable uh housing project uh that's was done by the Sak Jawia um nonprofit housing corporation on Steven Street in the Lansdale neighborhood. Uh are there any plans to um either have sort of informal discussions, conversations uh with these uh different uh uh these different uh builders to uh get a sense of of uh uh to get insight and knowledge of their um their activities that they've completed. I think there's better people than me to answer this question on the line. Chair, may I respond to this one? Please, please do carry on. Okay, so I'm representing the city on this one. Um, since it's still in city ownership, this is part of a bigger project and we're at the very front end of it. Um, so what I would suggest with whether we'd consult with other groups, what we're focusing in right now is working with the Hamilton Regional Indian Center and Ontario Aboriginal Housing Services as directed by council. We will be definitely open and this was actually that 16 Steven Street project is one I pointed out to Dimma. um as president, the whole idea of the visuals um in the windows was already something contemplated. It mimics that. Um that building actually had a lot more change and wasn't a designated building. Um so it's information we already know. Um the actual contractor who worked on that project, information like that could be shared. Um is also already internally known at the city, which is helpful. Um, but just to put this in more of a broader picture of where we're at, we have to report back to general issues committee about advancing this project and seeking direction to transact this property back to um or into the community's hands. And then with that comes the the path forward from a planning perspective. The property is not zoned appropriately for the contemplated uses. So, there's a few milestones coming before we get to that detailed stage, Matthew, of the the construction, who's going to um be building it, but the visual contemplation, those conversations can certainly happen with uh Saka Jera. And I can also think of um the Bnikim property that was a former um municipal property as well that's been in partnership with the indigenous communities locally. Um, so I'm not sure if that fully addresses the question or if it gives too much information, but just setting the stage a little bit with where we're at. We're at the very front end still, much to the frustration of the community. They wanted to be in here about three years ago. Thank you. Thank you, Jennifer. Um, okay. Uh, uh, looks like Sandra has her hand up. Uh, thank you, Dimma. Thank you so much for this presentation. Hi, I I think you have a very challenging project uh to take on. There's really two opposing kind of forces that are, you know, that are at hand right now. And I and I think this is kind of the beginning of opening the conversation. That's how I saw that rendering. It's really about having the conversation, starting with that. And uh I wanted to find out you know at this point how is it that the voices of the stakeholders was represented in your design? We have had multiple meetings um with the stakeholders on the project and have shown them iterations and feedback from them. Um this idea of identity and seeing oneself in the building and having the building not um uh trigger for lack of a better word like the associations of that building and mitigating the associations of the architecture of that building. I'll say because that building itself was not a residential school. But that architecture has a lot of connotations that are heavy and that are real and um that do that did cause and are causing I think the community to really think about deeply whether this is the right site for them, whether this is the right opportunity. And we're find trying to find ways to mitigate that and work with them to see how this building could be made theirs and how they could really truly um uh to appropriate the building where it can be someplace that people will feel welcome and comfortable and at ease and um uh and that is you know and that's a work in progress I'm going to say to be honest and and that's part of the next steps going forward in this project is actually, you know, how do we keep working on that? And everybody has to um be on the same page, but like we take our we've taken our direction from what we've heard from the communities in our meetings with them and tried to be responsive and give them them ideas of okay, this is how we can change the building to respond to this concern. this is how we can change the building so it meets the program that they need and they have a very wide ranging and very rich program of social services and educational services and community services. Um building is very much like currently the friendship center is very much like a hub and a welcome that people go to and feel welcome but they're too tight in their current space. So it I would say it's part of an ongoing um conversation as to how this happens and it will continue to be an ongoing conversation while the project develops. Thank you. Um I wasn't sure Audrey, did you have something you were going to add? I wasn't sure if your microphone got turned on or sorry it's Beth Doxer, chair. Oh, sorry. Okay. Hi there. Uh through the chair. Uh thank you so much uh committee members and chair for um allowing us to come today to present to the group. Um I just wanted to make a little bit of a comment on the last um uh question that was posed. Um part of the work that I do as the manager of indigenous relation is that relationship building between the city of Hamilton and the urban indigenous community and our treaty nations. And so part of my job and my team's role and scope is to do just that to ensure that the community voices are being heard and they are being considered. Um this project has been a long time coming. um we've had to do some relationship building with our indigenous partners and I think we're in a really great place at this point um again to make sure that all voices are being included and that we are um working through the urban indigenous strategy well this project very much aligns to the city's urban indigenous strategy um and there's very much a lot of excitement on it as well so yeah thank you um I had one comment I think I mean one thing that's always a concern with the heritage committee is you Are we changing the building? And it looks to me like I mean there's a lot I mean there are some internal changes understandably why you know reformatting the rooms and such. the outdoors, the outside, um, as you said, it's all removable if we ever need to go there, you know, to the the outside of the building is being retained in that, um, except for it sounds like the balcony, right? And some of those windows are going to be expanded. And probably, you know, the kind of heritage advice you would get from this committee would be, well, hopefully if you're taking away any bricks, you set those aside, right? Retain all the materials in case future times you want to restore it. So, but other than that, um I think it would be an amazing project to actually take this building from uh what is currently shuttered to, you know, adaptively reusing it in a great project. So, yeah. Uh Graham, you had one more comment. Yeah, you triggered something with the uh the balcony comment. the uh at one time there was a addition on the south side where the new buildings are going up that was removed in 2015 even though your document says uh 2018 was taken down in 2015. If the balcony was put over to that side that's already had compromised brick work and all that kind of stuff in there. Would it fit be enough room to go between the new housing and the school existing building? Um, we're actually putting the connection housing on that side of the building. Um, the balcony was an idea to um because it's off the main uh like open welcome space at the reception. So, it's to create a like a an exterior space off that main reception space that's really acts as the hub and the heart of the um of the building. People just go there and hang out. It's like a really like, you know, open space that people can just go and be in and it provides um an exterior space off that area. So that's why we had the idea of putting the balcony there. And I was wondering if it can't could be moved around to that south side though. You already got compromised brick work in there like that horrible new steel door that's on that side on this the ground floor. So it would provide a spot where you're doing less potential damage to the original fabric of the building. And that way just I don't know I just you're damaging less original features on that site because they already had an ugly building taken down from that side. Anyway, just something to think about because this is a brief. Yes. Thank you. All right. Um, so if there's no more comments from the committee, it doesn't I don't see any hands. Um, I guess you were here as a pre-conultation. These are the kind of things that you may hear if you were to come back to us, but um I you know I know there's a lot of steps and um eventually you would need a heritage permit um approval as well but you know for the most part I think the committee is quite on site so and I appreciate the opportunity to give you this input at this early stage. Really do. Um we appreciate the input as well. Thank you very much. Okay. Okay. So, good luck and uh yeah, we'll be seeing you in the future. Fingers crossed. Oh, Audrey. Yes. No, I just wanted to I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for hearing us and supporting us and yeah, we're looking forward to uh finding a new space to service the community. Yeah. Yeah. More. Okay. Yes. So, thank you to all of you for coming in. I appreciate all your u all your attention to this. So thank you. Thank you. Oh yeah. So to the committee then um I guess we would draw this meeting to a close as there is no other business. Sorry Karen. Oh yeah go ahead. We just need a formal motion to just receive that pre-conultation. Okay. Sorry about that. I didn't know. Um may I have a mover in a secondary to receive the consultation? So I see Graham and Sandra. Thank you. And uh is there anyone opposed to receiving that? Seeing none. Okay. Uh that is received. Is that good, Alyssa? Yes. Thank you, Karen. Thank you. Okay. As there is no further business for this evening. Um I adjourn the meeting at 6:14. Thank you all for your attention, your questions, and uh your continued dedication month. Okay.

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