Transcript - Council Tackles Homelessness, Economy, Housing - Strategic Priorities and Policy Committee

Council Tackles Homelessness, Economy, Housing - Strategic Priorities and Policy Committee - March 24, 2026

to this meeting, please contact spc atlondon.ca or phone 51966124 uh 2489 and extension 2425. Colleagues, I'm going to be begin by looking for any disclosures of canary interest. Seeing none, then we will move on to the consent agenda. Uh looking to see if colleagues want anything dealt with separately. Councelor Stevenson. 2.3, please. Okay. So 2.3 is the governance working group uh report. So we'll pull that for deferred matters. Anything else colleagues want dealt with separately in consent? Seeing none, uh, then I'll look for a mover and a seconder for the consent items. Councelor Cuddy, Councelor Hopkins, looking for any discussion. Councelor Hopkins. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair, for recognizing me. I do want to make um a quick comment on 2.2, which is the strate strategic advocacy framework. I um want to just express my uh thanks to the government relations team. I see Tyler Sutton is here and uh really uh without the support of government relations, my uh role as an AMO board member uh I definitely rely on uh the expertise and the support that staff give me. So many many thanks uh for that. And I also appreciate the many updates that we get from uh updates from the provincial and federal governments. I know we've got a provincial uh budget coming our way too and really appreciate the uh extra information that you give me as a counselor. So, thank you. Thank you, Councelor Hopkins. Any other speakers? Councelor Stevenson. Thank you. Uh a couple of questions on 2.1. Um, on page three, it talks about uh that the ash fault will be put in later. And I just wondered with the project potentially winding down in April of 2027, was there some thought to uh not putting down the ashalt, are there other options other than that uh expense? Uh, Mrs. Ramolu, thank you through the chair. The amount of ashalt we're going to put down is limited to the front entrance way. So that's where the heaviest traffic is. That's where um our garbage trucks come in for garbage collection. So it gets torn up quite a bit more than the rest of the site. So we're really keeping it limited to that uh small area. So I would still recommend doing it. Councelor Stevenson. No, thank you. That's great to know. Uh that sounds good to me. The other question I had is around um well I have a couple of questions I guess but on page five it talks about two participants required to leave the program following breaches of program and policies. Um I just wondered if you could just share more around that because when we're hearing about problem tenants within our housing programs it's difficult to address those. And so you know when we talk about from a human rights perspective people have a right to shelter in housing. I'm just wondering tell us more about that and what happens to those people. Mr. Green. Thank you. And through the chair. So both of those incidents uh did involve altercations between the participants and staff. They were minor in nature. Uh but we have a zero tolerance policy for physical altercations with staff. So they were removed from the program. Counselor. Thank you. So they just go back to being unhoused again. Mr. Green. Uh thank you. And through the chair. So we do our best to find other accommodations for them with the other shelter options. Uh so it's not like we put them just out the gate and say best of luck to you. Uh we coordinate with the other partners across the spectrum uh to see if there's other space that they can attend outside of the micro shelter. Councelor Stevenson. Thank you. And not to belabor this one, but we think of the um micro shelters as being the most optimal for potentially some problematic ones in that they don't have to deal with other people in shared accommodation spaces. They've got their own space to be. So when uh somebody is ejected like that, are they banned permanently? Is it just a temporary thing? And are other agencies did you find that they were willing to accept ones that had, you know, physical altercations with staff at the micro shelter? Mr. Dickens. Uh thank you um Mr. Chair and through you. When we talk about problematic ones, we're talking about individuals. Uh and these are complex humans. And in some cases, um individuals in this instance where there's been a physical altercation often are in the state where they're refusing to stay anyway. They want to leave. at that point um whatever coping mechanisms they have may be limited and uh trauma you know in their previous life has has taught them that this is their uh coping mechanism. Uh so in these instances uh people have had an altercation blow up try to work with the individuals but uh in many cases they're just refusing to stay and they want to leave. Despite that as Mr. Green has indicated we try to work with other programs. Sometimes they can accommodate, sometimes they can't based on uh perhaps uh previous interactions with this particular individual or um with capacity issues. So um we don't like to see folks walk out those gates without a place to go. We try to connect them to other services, but some are uh I mean we've got close to 70 individuals there. We've been operating for 3 months. Um we have a couple individuals who have not been successful in their first try at this. Whether they remain banned forever uh remains to be determined. We do have a long list of people who would like access to that space. So we continue if there is a vacancy for whatever reason uh try to work through that uh uh waiting list to get more people in. So in the event that we uh are able to circle back to an individual and they're in a different spot or ready to participate, we can always try that again. Councelor Stevenson, thank you very much. And then um there was reports of the fire. I heard it was a small fire, just a candle with a bed sheet. Um, and yet it says that the participants out of that unit and will be able to return to the unit once the work is finalized. So, I just wondered how much damage was done to the unit and, uh, the estimated time for getting the person back. Mr. Green, thank you through the chair. So, uh, the the damage was minor, so it was primarily to the bedding. Uh, the bedding needed to be replaced as well as some of the floor tiles under the bedding. Uh so working with Pharaoh, the cabin company who built and designed the cabins, uh it was just some lead time to get them down to London to make that repair and those individuals are back into that unit now. Counselor. Okay. Thank you. Good to hear that. Uh my last question on this is um you know there's referencing through this report quite a bit is uh participants transitioning from the micro shelter into permanent housing. And so I just wondered if you could tell me a bit about that because we I have so many people who are on the wait list for housing. People who have been sleeping on a mattress in their son's place for 3 years now waiting for uh a housing unit and we made the change to it mostly being chronological. So I'm just wondering how we're getting people right from the micro shelter into housing when we've got so many people uh on our housing list. Mr. Dickens. Uh thank you and through you chair. Uh the outset of this program was intended to try to help people uh along their journey in housing. Uh that was the goal from the beginning. So some of these folks and well no one has been in this situation yet. Um so I'm speculating on what type of housing they'll get into. Um but in the event that someone is able to transition out of here into housing and we hope they're able to. Um that is why it's referenced in here as an ambition. Um they may uh move into uh supportive housing. Uh they may move into um uh other um u housing types that might offer uh support through healthcare bodies through ACT teams or others. Um we don't foresee this as being some sort of queue jumping. I don't want to generate a bunch of fear online or in in the public that, you know, people are in the micro shelter and they're going to jump the cues for community housing. We have a matching process that we follow through the housing services act, um, which we don't have a lot of flexibility over when it comes to housing and community housing. So, you're right, it is chronologically based. I will add though the folks that are in the micro shelter have have been experiencing chronic homeless for a number of years. Uh they are chronologically, excuse me, showing up on that weight list and they've been on those housing weight lists themselves uh for several years and this is just a mere stop along the way. So uh yes, they're indoors right now and yes, they're in a temporary accommodation. Um, but they themselves have been on that weight list for a number of years in some cases. I would think I don't have that data at my fingertips to be able to pull that up and and uh demystify it for you on the spot. Counselor, thank you. Just a followup there cuz I was listening to the radio this morning and they were talking about how people were likely to go from the micro shelter to the hubs through to um transitional housing or highly supportive housing. But I just wondered with the change that we made around um um chronological versus emergency, can you just remind me about that emergency piece? How how are those people being housed? And I'm assuming the people in the micro shelters are the same as anyone in any of the other shelters and that's where the emergency people are coming. I'm just wondering what our prioritization is for that small amount of emergency placements. Mr. Dickens, through you, Mr. Chair. I I don't have that topic handy here today and and I don't have the uh ability to lean on some of my other team members from that uh department. However, the um uh urgent piece is typically through our priority populations um in the emergency uh component. So, women fleeing domestic violence typically falls within that emergency uh group um in which case they will always take priority. That is legislated under the act. Um and so what council approved was a shifting uh as you noted uh to chronological. So that is where we have our influence. The rest of the directives we follow under the housing services act. So the emergency piece is really around folks that fall under the special priorities. Councilor, thank you. Uh yeah, just trying to put this all together. So there's the urgent small piece that goes through our community housing and then I guess they would have access as well to the housing stability programs through the other agencies as well as the people do staying in the shelters. Am I correct on that, Mr. Dickens? Thank you, Chair. Yes. If folks are experiencing homelessness, they're able to access the emergency shelters and those uh that are on the uh weight list. Um some of them may be um uh experiencing homelessness themselves. They may be couch surfing. Uh they may be overhoused, things like that. Um and again, if if I had this ready at my fingertips or prepared for the uh housing placement components, I'd uh be able to help you out more. My apologies. Councelor, anything further? Okay, I have Mayor Morgan and then I have councelor McAllister and then I have councelor Pribble. Okay, thank you. So, um let me start off by um thanking our staff for the report and the uh the update. Uh and I want to say just a couple of things and I appreciate that Mr. Green's here. Um because I think the the the team that is overseeing the site has done a tremendous job. Um having uh been out to the site uh a couple of times, having had the opportunity to give Minister Flack a tour. Um I I want to say um even with the small fire, like the teams performed exactly as they should, right? Smoke detector goes off. uh staff get there quickly, use the fire extinguisher, extinguish the small fire, unit is repaired, back in operation, people back in the place. This is exactly how you know these things are supposed to work. So you've got policies, procedures in place. They seem to be working very well and I just want to commend you for the excellent work, not only for providing the service, but providing for the emergent um issues that may come up from time to time in operating any sort of site that houses individuals. So um first off, I wanted to say that. Second, you know, I want to recognize um that uh there was some hesitancy and I I know a number of members of council had some concerns about a number of aspects of the micro modular site. Uh the operator, the location, you know, would people want to go there? And what I appreciate uh through this reporting is the transparency to show very clearly that it is working as we had hoped and it is working as envisioned. And I want to also very much thank London Cares for the letter that they added to the added agenda and the types of things they said in it as well as the other partners who provide services who are partnering with us on the site partnering with Expera and the site operators to make sure it's going as as best as it possibly can. And I I want to highlight a couple of things because it was on the added agenda from the London Cares letter. They wanted to commend Xpera for their professionalism and the trauma-informed environment that they fostered. Their openness to collaborate with community agencies has made it a seamless has made it seamless for our teams to work alongside them on a shared mission. Their staff are warm, attentive, and grounded in rational practice uh relational practice. Sorry. Uh this project has created a community where people feel safe enough to begin to exit survival mode and focus on connecting and healing. Our frontline staff speak highly of this partnership and the participants regularly share how supported they feel. People are transitioning from circumstances that are very difficult into circumstances that are safer, more supported and exactly the type of thing that we envisioned. The the other thing and I you know I can't emphasize enough their articulation of the individual experiences that some have had in going to that site including a participant who historically avoided traditional shelter spaces but slept more than 12 hours after moving in and has remained there full-time. Right. others who are finding a pathway through this site, a different option, not the only shelter option we offer, but a different option that provides a a a an experience that is right for some members of our community. Also, I I want to recognize what they said about their outreach teams seeing a renewed sense of hope, supporting people in navigating the site, transport transporting belongings, identifying individuals who've been waiting for exactly this kind of opportunity after long periods of limited options. A sense of relief, pride, and possibility has been profound. You know, this is from an agency who has worked in this space for many years on the front lines doing outreach, providing services, recognizing that although even they were hesitant at the first and provided a lot of feedback that I think our staff took as guidance in the way to design the space, I really appreciate them taking the time to write the letter to say here's what we think about how it's going now so that we can alleviate some of the concerns that were out in the community about the initial selection criteria of the site. And I and again, we had to move very quickly and we did. This was one of the fastest moving municipal projects I think I've seen. Moving from a field to places where people can live in, you know, 8 to 10 weeks. Like that's a pretty fastmoving project. And now, you know, fully uh subscribed, everybody's there and and and living there. Um I want to appreciate what uh the deputy city manager said about the pathways to housing. I'm very hopeful that there will be pathways to housing through the site like there is pathways to housing in all sorts of types of services we provide. Those pathways are differences. They're different. They're unique. They're based on the individual. And that's why I appreciate our CI teams working, you know, with agencies to identify not only the people who are living at the site, but what the right pathway is for them to get them moving through the site. And I'm hopeful that this site will not be a site for 60 or 70 people, but a site where we get some flow through and people into housing over the course of uh of its operations. So again, I I appreciate the good news story that is in the report. I appreciate the letter from London Cares, but greatly I appreciate the staff who pulled this together in a very quick way and are operating it with extreme professionalism and providing a great result for both the community as well as those individuals who are taking advantage of this opportunity in their lives. Thank you. And right on five minutes, Mayor, thank you. Uh I have councelor McAllister next. Uh thank you to the chair probably won't take five minutes. I did just want to start uh by thanking uh Miss Ramlu and u Mr. Green. Um really appreciate them getting the micro shelters up and running. I know it was probably a lot of work especially through this uh tough winter. Um really do appreciate it and all the people who are supporting the site as well. U want to give a shout out to them. Um I just wanted to give kind of um in terms of um my perspective and what I've heard from from my ward and what staff have been able to share with me and the real impact it has had on our city. Um, Watson Park is u an encampment that uh has been a struggle for many years and I know um through discussions with staff that they have been able to assist people uh to be able to move to the micro shelter and that has made a real tangible difference in terms of of that space that we've had to manage for a number of years. So we've been able to help people on their uh their journey for housing that have really struggled in the past. Uh and so with that with uh being able to vacate that space uh we can rehabilitate the park and return it to a public space as well. So, I think there's a lot of wins all around. Um, so far so good. Um, I really appreciate everything that's gone into this. I know it was quick turnaround. Um, but it is making a difference in in terms of rebuilding people's lives. So, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone involved. Um, it has made a difference in my award and I'm sure it'll make a difference in a number of other words as well. So, thank you. Thank you, Councelor McCallister. Uh, I'm going to go to councelor Pribble next. Uh, councelor Pribble, I just want to note you've used 497 hours of your time. Apparently, I forgot to turn off the timer for you at council from the last meeting. Uh, so you've been talking for 20 days straight according to my timer. Uh, but you've got 5 minutes now. Go ahead. I'll try to be very brief. I do want to as well similar to the mayor and council meister. I want to thank the staff and thank the uh Expera and local uh community organizations, social agencies because I do think that the secret of the success of this project is working together and so far it has been uh I think that uh again moving it forward even more deeper cooperation even more communication with the staff and progressing the individuals and I do totally understand that some individuals even if you have the space they might not be already depending on the acuity level etc. But I really want to thanks I think this is so far positive. We had over 50 people that were less during this harsh winter on the street in the encampments in the warming center. So I really think we are on a really good track. It's a positive initiative. We just have to keep moving forward but thank you all involved. Thank you councelor Pribble. I have councelor Ferrer next. Uh thank you chair. Um, I guess I'll start with I appreciate the report and the and the consistent updates that uh you guys are providing. I really appreciate uh Miss Maralu and Miss Mr. Green's engagement with us and bringing us uh to check out the site and just answering all the questions that we have. Um I do have some questions. I I just I know we're talking about pathways uh into housing after the fact after the uh micro modular shelter, but I wanted to talk about pathways into the microo shelter as well. I I specifically uh want to know because I do see that we're at at time of the report anyways the micro shelters are at capacity. I wanted to know if we had any numbers on uh potential weight lists of potential participants who said that they would like to be uh moving into the micro modular sites and what that number would be. Mr. Green. Uh thank you and through the chair. So yeah, the selection process is taken care of through the coordinated access group uh and having the privilege to sit in on several of those meetings. It is uh quite a community um process to make good choices to send to people they believe will be successful at the shelter. So given at this time we are at 68 tenants today. We do plan that number will bounce kind of between 70 and 65 as as people transition in and out of the micro shelter. uh and my understanding is that weight list is well over a hundred other individuals that have met uh the criteria that the coordinated access group has put together uh to fit and and be successful at the micro shelter. Uh so as uh Mr. Dickens and others have said, we are hoping that we'll start to see some transition. Of course, uh our longest tenants there have only been there about eight or nine weeks, so we'll give it a little bit more time. Uh but throughout the summer, we're hoping to start to work through that weight list uh in in coordination with the coordinate access group. Councelor, thank you for that. And I do see that there's been significant improvements at Watson Park. Um and I hear the counselor's remarks uh for the improvements there. Um I did want to ask uh with respect to I guess other encampments and just the numbers of people with respect to the spaces that they're in. Um, when it comes to Watson Park, would you be able to tell me uh how many individuals are uh in that park right now? Mr. Dickens, Mr. Parody. Yeah. through the chair. I'll I'll take a look and uh bring up the latest uh stats. Councilor, thank you. Um, so like I guess my question is is because I do have some encampments in very confined spaces um and there's uh many numbers of people in a very small space and then when I consider that with uh other spaces that have greater space and the numbers are lower. I just wanted to know if there's any consideration into placement into the micro modular sites from encampments that have a larger number of people and a smaller space. Sorry, Mr. Green. Uh, thank you and through the chair and, uh, as mentioned that the selection goes through the coordinated access group. There's quite a few variables involved in those determinations. Um, I can share that the determination for the first cohort was those living rough and living in encampments uh, as we were in the in the middle of the winter when that was happening. But there is quite a few variables in including acuity levels, paper readiness, uh their um um individuals who are connected to services. Uh so I I would probably have to consult with the coordinated access group on all of those variables um and determine kind of how they rank certain things like where they are located, what encampments, if they are indoors, outdoors at the time and and other variables as well. Counselor, uh thank you for that. Is there any consideration um as we I guess relieve uh the amounts of people in some parks and and place them into the micro modular sites and then we have some other parks that have a higher number of people if we can make um any sort of like redistribution so we don't have too many people in one specific space before uh placement into the micromodular site. Mr. Dickens. Uh thank you and through you chair as Mr. Parody is uh looking up some data. That would be a conversation I think for CIR to look at in terms of what they're managing out there and that uh would fall through Mr. Parody and Mr. Latasur. Uh I don't have the CIR stats in terms of how many people are in which park uh handy uh or what their plan is for any relocation if there's uh issues going on in certain parks. But um yeah, as when we look to do the matching, I think as Mr. Green had said we we try to find uh fit and uh I'm not sure that they're looking at uh which parks uh people are coming from specifically. It may be part of that conversation, but I'll leave the rest to Mr. Parody and Mr. Laver. Mr. Parody. Our last in time count or through the chair. Our last in time count for Watson Park uh two weeks ago was 14, but that may have changed with a uh better weather coming and uh our team can get us an update this week if it's required. Thank you for that, Councelor Ferrer. Thank you. Uh if Yeah, I guess I'll wait for those numbers to come out from the parks if you can distribute those out to council. Um and I I guess I'll have a conversation with you. um I guess on the back end about how we can um just have a better distribution of individuals um considering the space of the park itself. Um because I I do see that we're making some good progress here with the micro modular sites themselves. But there is also uh an amount of people who are looking to get into the micromodular site and um and I would like to make sure that just the work that's done beforehand has a um a distribution that doesn't really have too many a higher concentration of individuals and smaller amounts of space. And I have councelor Pelosa and then councelor Ramen on the list next. Councelor Pelosa, go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, just on a high level, um, for next steps, I know a report's going to come back in Q2. Um, just looking to see exactly what as council we can maybe prepare ourselves for, what kind of decision-making you would like at that time. Um, realizing this project was already approved to go through until around spring of 2027. Mr. Chair, did you hear my question? Yes. Staff are just conferring. Okay. Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Dickens. Through you, Chair, and thank you for the question. Just needed to confer uh with some folks. Uh so first off in the April report you'll see more of a financial update. So the uh construction contracts and invoices uh should all be in uh Miss Ramloo's inbox by that date. Uh so we can update the uh report at that time. As far as uh recommendations and suggestions um as Mr. Green indicated, we are very much in the infancy stage here of uh just getting through one season and into the next. uh our longest tenur uh participants have been there roughly nine weeks. Um so we want to make sure we're monitoring this situation every single day and uh getting a better sense of how to make an informed recommendation, but it is a topic of discussion uh at the senior leadership team level and uh you can rest assured that uh civic administration will be reporting back to council with uh any future recommendations. Councelor Pelosa, thank you. Um, personally, I think just looking to see um if it's the right mix of double occupancy versus single occupancy on site and if the amount of people we're housing is adequate um or if there's a capacity for a little bit more. I also realize it's a temporary site but um really appreciative of the work and the impact it's meaning on the community and also um through next steps uh some people residents have reached out uh looking to see how they can support people as they transition out of this housing and into other housing. So if there's any focus on um ways that the public can become involved and help our neighbors become housed and and support them in that journey. um happy to have that as part of the report too. So just a a comment. Thank you. Thank you councelor Pelosa. Councelor Ramen. Thank you and through you. Um so on item 2.1 I just wanted to say thanks to staff for the report. Um I'm a little concerned that we're getting a bit more operational in this discussion around who should go where and how and what criteria are being used etc. and just uh wanted to return the conversation back to a governance place. Um so just with that uh you know I am looking forward to the next report understanding what those costs were and and how we move forward in any other future recommendation but overall just wanted to say thanks for the tremendous work on that uh with 2.2 to the strategic advocacy framework. Um, I really uh appreciate the report that's in front of us because I have a chance to see all of the efforts that have been put forward so far uh this year. But I do note there are things there that um potentially uh don't fit a category. So sometimes they don't show up for that reason. But I do know that um that your team is on it and those are things that you're working on. So, I do appreciate um seeing all that's in front of us. Um, one of the things that I quite like about the report that's in front of us is not only does it help to uh frame what we've done in the past, but where we move to in the future and what continues to be the priorities. And I think that in general, um, I'm starting to think a little bit differently about how we align those priorities, uh, and ensure that we're all, uh, having strategic conversations that are in the same direction. And again, this report just reminds us of where those conversations take place and where they're best placed. So again, thanks again for that. And, uh, I'll leave my comments there. Thanks. Thank you, Council Ramen. that uh exhaust. Oh, councelor Trussau. Uh, thank you very much and to through to the chair. Given the amount of information that we've received, I think it might be difficult to to to draw a hard line between the policy especially looking forward and the operational. Um, I see in the report that I see in the report, just to use the right word, that we're working with the coordinated access working group to coordinate participant referrals. Does that group make the decisions about who gets admitted? Mr. Green, thank you. And through the chair, yes, that group is comprised of both city staff as well as staff from the other supporting partners. uh in our social service kind of uh agencies uh and they do make the decisions um through different criteria that they select um as as discussed earlier. So that could be uh as as we did prioritize the first cohort for those who were unsheltered. Uh but it also had criteria of their their willingness to move to that site. um if they had any partners to come with them uh pets to come with them as as the micro shelter is one of the only facil or only shelters that does allow pets. Uh so there was a whole list of criteria and that group does take that criteria into account and make the best decisions on who goes where. So they not only decide who goes to the micro shelter but they also uh place people in the other shelters as well. Councelor Trussau, thank you um through the chair. I take I take it that that list of criteria is something that's been published and available to council if it's not already in one of our reports. Mr. Dickens uh through you chair. No, I believe that's not published for council. It's what the uh coordinated access staff use. It's very much like the assessment tools we may use or um but it's it's um No, we've not published that for council. Is there a reason why that's Sorry. Thank you. Is there a reason why that's not published for council? Well, we're not asking for names of individuals. We're looking for the criteria. Mr. Dickens through you chair just for clarity is council asking for the criteria for selection into the micro modular shelter or the various criteria that cornated access uses when we're determining placements everywhere. Well, I'm following excuse me thank thank you through the chair. I'm following up the conversation that we're having based on the representation that was made by staff about how there is a list of criteria that is utilized to determine who gets into this particular facility. And I'm trying to probe a little bit what is on that list and how we might be able to see that. And so just before I go to Mr. Dickens. Um cuz I think it's a legitimate question, counselor. Um I've allowed a little bit of leeway. Folks have asked some questions around encampment management, uh some of the CIR work. Um but we are on an update to the micro modular. So there's an opportunity to ask about the micro modular criteria, but if we start veering off into questions about criteria for placement with our some of our third party providers like Homes Unlimited or partnership with Indwell or whatever, I'll rule that out of order. It's not relevant to what's on the agenda today. But councelor, I hear you're asking just for this particular site right now. So I will go to Mr. Dickens. Through you, uh, Mr. chair. Uh Mr. Green has has touched on a lot of this criteria um in his answers already. Um this is uh the coordinated access working with outreach organizations. A lot of it is um assessment based. It's information based. It's hey, we've got a group of people here. Are these folks likely to be successful? Are they interested? Some of the some of the things are hard and fast. do they have a dog or not? Um, but a lot of it is more of an art than a science. And so, while we might have some general criteria that we're using in the conversation with the individual that they're trying to place, uh, it it's not like we just have a static form. And so, I think giving you a list of criteria, we'd be happy if that's what council directs us to do in the April update. Uh but just know that it is not a just a paperbased sit down assessment. A lot of this is subjective. A lot of it is uh nuanced. Uh the situation changes. Um but it uh we'd be happy to if that's what council wants is to give you some of the rough guidelines that the professionals use. Uh thank thank you. I'll uh I'll continue this discussion when we get the next report. Um, Watson Park has been mentioned. Could you give me an estimate of how many people are in the current facility, the micro facility, who came from Watson Park? I I'd be a little concerned, counselor, that we're starting to veer into personally identifiable information to start giving numbers of specific locations where residents have come from. Um, I I will ask Mr. Mr. Dickens if he or Mr. Green have have information that they can share. But I I think we are starting to get into some questionable territory for public session questions. Mr. Dickens. Uh thank you and through you chair. I I wouldn't have that information handy anyway, but I will just say at the highest level we have 68 individuals that were currently un that were previously unsheltered that are now at the micro shelter. Um, and people don't always stay to one fixed park and one fixed ward. They do move around quite a bit. Counselor. Well, that that in in in all due respect, I'm not asking for personally identifiable information and I think the uh the group the group here is uh large enough that I would not be able to infer anybody's identity. If you told me there were 20 of the 60 were from Watson Park or 15 of the 60 were from Watson Park, I would not be able to um deduce the the identities. I'll save this for now. Maybe I'll get back to it at council if you could get us a little bit more information and I'll certainly be compiling my questions for the um April report because I would like to um I mean I support this program and I want it to work but I also feel as a counselor that uh I have some responsibility to understand this better than I do and a a lot has been on faith because it's been rushed and we wanted to get this started but as we go through a second or third iteration of this program I think that uh it would be very reasonable for counselors to be asking these types of uh these types of questions. I would not want to see a situation where, for example, we're trying to clear a certain encampment. And I'm not saying that that happened, but um I think it's reasonable to ask for aggregate statistics. So, we might also want to brush up on what the privacy rules in terms of where you draw the line between personally identifiable information and aggregate statistics um are before we have this conversation again. So, um thank you very much. I'll I'll leave it there for now. Thank you, councelor. So, that does councelor Mallister. Uh thank you through the chair. I just wanted to clarify something. I was just speaking in terms of one experience. I'm in no way inferring that that is the only one. I'm just speaking from my ward experience. I've had people move in and out of Watson. I have people who've been chronically homeless for years uh predate my time on council. Um as staff have said, there's a lot of criteria. Um but I do think as has already been said, we're kind of going into the weeds. I just wanted to point out a success story um that had been conveyed to me um because I know people have benefited um who are unhoused in my ward. So, I'm sure there are other success stories and I hope uh counselors will take that opportunity to speak with staff because that was just something in terms of my conversation. So, I'm not trying to um just highlight that. I just wanted to point to that as a as a success story that we can all um look to. Thanks. Okay, councelor Ferrer. Thank you, Chair. Uh well the questions that councelor Trussa was asking were similar to my questions and I believe that some of those aggregate data I don't want any personally identifiable information at all. I just want to know uh how many individuals from certain parks maybe even the service depot the previous service depot parks have been successfully moved into the micro modular shelter. So I was under the understanding that we would get an email back with that aggregate data. So again, I I think we're straying into encampment management rather than the microo shelter piece. Um Miss Ders Bear, thank you through you to the members of of committee. I am um ecstatic and pleased that uh committee is very excited about this initiative and that you've given us the support to ensure that up to 70 people are housed in this community. We have great support from Expera and others in this community and I appreciate your desire to get information. We are being uh respectful to the fact that a number of vulnerable people in this community have been housed here and we will try to give you as much information as possible. We are not trying to keep you from getting that information but people who are living unhoused do tend to move from different locations. You've heard that already. We'll try to get you as much information as we can. Uh but I also want to be assured uh that we are that this is very fluid. I'll put it that way. And individuals come and go. Uh but I can tell you that some that we would have seen would have been supported through all the initiatives that we as a city have been involved in. Not only the warming centers this year, but also shelter services and other services in the community. So um we will provide you as much information as we can in the next report. Councelor Councelor Stevenson, you have about a minute and 15. Yeah, I just have a quick question to follow up on this. I think it would be really helpful to get that encampment data though that is available, you know, if we know that 2 weeks ago there were 14 people in Watson Park. We haven't had that kind of detail and to have it would really be helpful with the overall picture because when we just did the warming center the last time we just did it. I was surprised there were 73 people there. Um given that we just created this new space of 70. I was hoping to see the number go down more and maybe it's gone down in the encampments. But it would be really helpful to know that we are making a difference and be able to relay that to the public. Um, so I would support getting some more detailed information in April. Again, we we have gone through everybody who's want to be on the list at least once, but I'm going to start I've cautioned colleagues. I'm going to start ruling out of order operational questions about encampment management. The report that's in front of us today is the micro modular update. So with all due respect to colleagues, stick to the item on the agenda, please. Councelor Pribble and then councelor Ferrer, you want to go again? Councelor Prible. Sorry, Chair. I'll be really brief, but I'm going to You might say that this is what you just said. I'm a little bit away but I want to say a couple of things which our staff already reiterated but I want to say it again. These individuals they move from one another. If you'll get the statistics and our staff is going to tell us they came from this part. They could be there only 2 days and 3 weeks before they were in the other one point one point two the warming centers they're not going to help the decrease the number of the encampments. We let them out in the morning. Where are they going to go back on the street and back to the encampments? So it's not going to make any difference. Thank you. Thank you because I was about to cut you off. Any other speakers on the micro modular update? Seeing none, then both items have been moved in consent, I'm going to ask the clerk to open the vote. Councelor Prible. Yes. Closing the vote. Motion carries 14 to zero. Thank you, colleagues. Moving on. We have no scheduled items. We have a number of items for direction. We're going to start with 4.1, the draft economic development strategy. We have requests for delegation status from uh two individuals as well as a presentation uh from Deote uh who's our consultant on this. So I'm going to ask for a motion to approve the delegations. We will then hear from our consultant. We will then hear from the delegates. Then we will go into our discussions. Councelor Hopkins is willing to move. Councelor Ferrera is willing to second the delegations. And we'll ask the clerk to open the vote to approve. Councelor Prible. Yes. Closing the vote. Motion carries. 14 to zero. Okay. Thank you colleagues. So I'm going to invite Mr. Fowler to give us a an introduction from staff. Then we'll go to our presentation from Mr. Blae from Deote. And whenever you are ready, Mr. Fowler, go ahead. Thank you, chair, and through you. Uh, thank you for having us here today. Uh, so Deote is here today to present the full economic development strategy and implementation plan for your review. Um at the January SPC meeting, committee members expressed interest in an opportunity to review the full plan uh before staff came forward with the request for endorsement. And so that's what today is focused on. Uh the the vision, the strategies and actions in this plan are built on London's strengths and are designed to reflect what business leaders and community leaders said they wanted for this city economically and also what they're looking for from their city government as one actor in the ecosystem to help make that happen. And so as you look at the actions, you'll see that many focus on systems and processes and governance. And that's deliberate. uh it it uh reflects an understanding of the city's role in creating the conditions for economic development uh and really leveraging our functions in funding uh and policy and advocacy. And as I've come to really appreciate the uh role we can play in convening uh so for me one of the most consistent messages we saw in the ecosystem review and in the engagement uh is that London has the right ingredients. We have good bones in economic development and we need to work on the connective tissue. So, it's about how we come together and and how we organize and what I heard and saw when I looked at the literature and the conversations that I was part of. We are well positioned as an organization to to help bring folks together to encourage the alignment of efforts uh and to build a stronger culture of working collectively for London's economic future. Uh so, I'm pleased to introduce Paul Ble from Deote LLP Canada who will walk committee through the strategy. Uh Mr. BL is a leader in economic development with deep experience in this work working with cities across Canada. Uh you can read more about him and the project team in appendix C of the cover report. And those are my opening remarks on that. Thank you Mr. Fowler and Mr. Bla. Go ahead. Good afternoon chair and members of the uh the committee. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. Trevor, thanks for the kind introduction. Um as Trevor mentioned, my name is Paul Bl. I'm managing director of economic strategy and impact at uh at Deote. Uh on January 13th, my colleague Rebecca Taylor uh was in this very spot uh presenting a draft uh economic development strategy to you. Since then, we've continued with engagement uh with members of the city's economic development ecosystem, and today I'm sharing a refined version. It's designed to live with the city, adapt as conditions change, and guide coordinated action over the next five years. I'll start with the vision, mission, and guiding principles, then walk through the five pillars at a high level. The vision reflects London's strengths, a creative identity, strong post-secondary and research institutions, a diversifying industrial base, and a strategic location with access to major markets. The mission is clear about the city's role. Align the system, close coordination gaps, and focus municipal investment where it generates the greatest return for residents and businesses. Before the pillars, these principles describe how the city will make choices while delivering on its commitments. They reflect the values expressed during engagement and establish shared expectations for how the city approaches economic development decisions. The strategy is organized into five strategic pillars. These five pillars define where the city of London working together with economic development partners can have the greatest impact on London's economic future. Each pillar is grounded in quantitative research and engagement results with over 200 individuals and identifies where London currently stands, what success looks like, and what the city will do within the economic development ecosystem. Actions were selected under these pillars because the city and partners have a distinct role and the efforts that are taken are feasible and they will have a positive impact. These will move the needle on jobs and investment in the city. The report has more evidence from engagement in quantitative research and also includes detailed implementation plans for each of the pillars. Pillar one is about people because talent and innovation underpin everything else. London faces a significant excuse me London faces significant workforce pressure. A projected 40,000 new workers are needed by 2031 due to growth, retirements, and sector skill sh sector shifts. The first strategic initiative is where the city will convene a talent working group to set a small number of shared annual workforce priorities and create workforce navigation map so employers and job seekers can find the right supports quickly. Second, taking action with the second initiative will improve the retention and economic involvement of students, newcomers, and underrepresented groups by strengthening pathways from education to employment and supporting inclusive retention practices. Thirdly, the pillar seeks to strengthen the innovation ecosystem by piloting a co-investment fund, establishing an inventory of innovation spaces, and continuing to modernize approvals. so innovative firms can scale. The second pillar is about being investment ready, which means to establish the conditions that ensure London is an attractive place to invest. London's priority sectors align nicely with the glo with global growth growth trends, but action is required to ensure the city gets its share of future investment. The pillar focuses on London's competitive advantages by aligning site readiness and infrastructure into an investor ready roadmap and advancing work like in the life sciences like with the life sciences innovation hub while also integrating creative and cultural industries into sector planning. Second, a focus will be on activating the downtown by identifying underutilized buildings, preparing invest an investment portfolio, streamlining approvals for tenant improvements and adaptive reuse, and piloting small business resilience supports. The third initiative in this pillar is to strengthen commercial and community hubs citywide by focusing on zoning, infrastructure, incentives, and branding, treating them as one integrated investment portfolio. The third pillar recognizes that many major investment decision decisions are regional. So this pillar positions London as a coordinating hub. The recommendation includes an initiative for the city to deepen collaboration across southwestern Ontario by coordinating infrastructure and investment uh plans, advocating for trade enabling infrastructure and telling a shared regional investment story that highlights complimentary strengths. Also, the aim is to build build mutually beneficial economic partnerships with indigenous nations starting with a dedicated indigenousled engagement process to identify shared priorities. Pillar four, mobility enables opportunity. Stronger air and rail connectivity will improve London's economic position through a focused advocacy. Through a focused advocacy strategy, there will be enhanced alignment between regional partners to make evidence-based cases to decision makers. Secondly, the city will drive local and regional mobility improvements by working across municipalities and agencies to better link communities, jobs, campuses, and employment areas. and by coordinating advocacy for investment. And thirdly, the strategy positions London as an aerospace innovation center through an aerospace innovation zone around the airport and partnerships that support testing, manufacturing, and talent development. Strategic pillar number five addresses the backbone of implementation. First, the pillar aims to enhance coordination and accountability by establishing the economic development partnership round t and updating funding agreements so priorities, outcomes and coordination expectations are clear. The second initiative is about aligning internal city processes by strengthening cross department coordination and refining service standards with performance tracking and continuous improvement when it comes to economic development. And the third initiative is to improve measurement and transparency through an annual economic development outcomes report that shows what's been delivered, what's working, and what needs adjustment. Before I close, I want to sincerely thank the city's team and the people who form London's economic development ecosystem for sharing their perspectives, experience, and contributions. This strategy is ultimately a weaving together of the capabilities, opportunities, and hopes that they have for their city. What we hear today along with what we've heard through the engagement process will directly inform the next phase of work. The city will lead additional consultation through April before the final strategy is brought forward. Importantly, this strategy is intended to be a living framework. It is one that depends on continued collaboration, shared accountability, and real world feedback. back as it moves into implementation. Thank you again for your time, your cander, and your commitment to London's future. It has been an absolute pleasure working on this with you and your team. Thank you, sir. We will keep you around for questions if you're able to stay uh for a little while with us. Uh but we move now to our delegates. uh we have uh not made uh a decision by alphabetical order or by rock paper scissors. So Mr. Henderson and Mr. Zafman, we're going to uh just invite you in the order that your delegation status requests were received. So Mr. Zafman, you are first and I know you've presented to us before. Uh if you can just give us your name, the organization you're representing, and then you have your five minutes. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Jared Zafman, CEO with the London Homebuilders Association. Uh, and you know, it's it's nice uh with the last name starting with the zed to not be last for the first time. So, I I do appreciate that. Um, thanks for the opportunity to speak today. Uh, I keep it brief. Uh, certainly appreciate uh how the construction industry uh is discussed in this report. Um, to be honest, just speaking today just about how critical that industry is for our community. I think on an ongoing basis every year council often is presented with assessment growth uh and where that comes from quite often is from the construction industry. Uh obviously there's I think a bit of positivity in this report. Uh not here to sort of share pessimism but at the same time just to present some realities for this council and that over the next number of years we certainly see some concern ahead for our industry uh that without certain supports that this could be challenged for the years to come. Uh so you know certainly ideas and ways that you could support uh modular construction which I know is part of this report uh certainly could be part of the future that looks at uh especially in part because of the challenges that we foresee uh over the next 8 years particularly uh with a number of retirements on the horizon. Uh we also are quite concerned that if there are not sort of substantial changes or supports for this industry in the next couple years uh those numbers of retirements and shifts from this industry to other employment areas could grow. Uh so just wanted that to be mindful for council as you explore the broader economic strategy uh for the near-term future. Um certainly feel that obviously council with the housing accelerator funds very much geared towards uh housing there are certainly opportunities I think to support this from an economic development perspective. Uh and we'll leave it there for now. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Zafman and Mr. Henderson. Welcome again. I know you've done this before but if you can just give us your name, the organization you're representing and then you'll have your five minutes. Thanks, chair. Uh, let me get this right. Uh, thanks, chair. I'm Graeme Henderson, CEO of the, uh, London Chamber of Commerce. And, uh, I'll just get my timer set up here. Uh, we ready? Uh so on behalf of the chamber of commerce uh I want to begin by saying uh that we support the direction of this draft economic development strategy uh and it's subject to several comments that we believe would strengthen it before final adoption. Um I also want to acknowledge Trevor Fowler, Kathy Parsons and the good folks at Deote uh for the considerable work that has gone into this document. It reflects thoughtful effort and offers the first full expression of how earlier direction setting work uh is now being translated into a comprehensive strategy for London's economic future and there is much in the draft that is encouraging. The stronger treatment of culture and downtown is welcome. Downtown is now described as an economic and cultural driver. The strategy rightly treats London's econ uh UNESCO city of music designation as part of the city's economic proposition. Culture appears more clearly in the vision, in the ecosystem description, in sector planning, and in downtown activation. These are meaningful advances, and they reflect an understanding that culture and downtown are central to London's long-term economic future. We are also encouraged, whoops, sorry. We are also encouraged to see indigenous reconciliation addressed more directly in this draft. The document makes clear that reconciliation requires action and it points towards indigenousled partnerships, a more intentional engagement process uh and uh possible future equity partnerships in infrastructure. This is meaningful progress. The chamber has been urging this kind of movement for almost a year and we're pleased to see it in the work. At the same time, the city now has an important guide, the recently approved reconciliation reconciliation plan, and that plan should shape the next phase of the work. To this point, however, the reconciliation plan does not appear to have played a meaningful role in guiding the development of the strategy. Council will want to ensure that this changes as implementation moves forward. The key task is now execution. Economic reconciliation needs to be visible not only in partnership language but also in procurement, workforce development, placemaking, public realm planning, cultural programming, housing and accountability. In other words, the reconciliation plan as a lens should function as a lens across the strategy as a whole. Oops. Sorry. Um, oops, this is going to eat into my time. At the same time, there are several areas where further refinement would strengthen the final product. First, the relationship between the economic development strategy and the downtown plan still needs to be a much tighter much tighter. The chamber has consistently argued that these two exercises must work together in a far more deliberate way. If downtown revitalization is central to London's economic future, uh, council needs a clearer mechanism to ensure alignment in implementation, governance, and measurement. Related to that, council should seriously consider the creation of an armslength municipal development corporation uh, focused on downtown regeneration. Properly structured, such an entity could focus on the acquisition and assembly of strategic downtown sites, interim activation of underutilized properties, partnership packaging, and the advancement of catalytic projects that are too complex or too slowm moving to be driven through the ordinary process. Regional collaboration, if it is to succeed, needs a practical definition and regional partners. The themes are sound, but what is needed is a clearer set of priority outcomes, uh, named lead partners, timelines, and measurable results. Third, the stronger recognition of culture in the draft now needs to be matched by execution. Culture should be treated as a practical driver of economic development, talent attraction, citybuilding, and investment. That means clearer ownership, clearer measures and stronger connection between cultural development and economic implementation. Finally, I wanted to speak briefly about the role of the chamber itself. Our submission to you encourages clearer recognition in the final strategy of the role that the chamber can play in implementation. Economic development is a central pillar of the chamber's own strategic plan and the chamber is well positioned to support delivery as a business centered connector as a convenor within the implementation structure as a source of marketfacing accountability and business feedback and as an advocacy partner on infrastructure mobility competitiveness and regional priorities. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Henderson. We appreciate that presentation uh from the chamber. Before we move into questions and comments from colleagues, uh I'm going to go back to Mr. Fowler and if you can just outline for us the timeline of next steps because I I think that there might be beneficial for colleagues to understand. We're not actually amending the draft plan today. We may be providing some commentary for your further consideration and when you would be coming back to us. Absolutely. Thank uh thank you chair and through you. So that's quite right. Uh today is intentionally uh presented to committee as a report for information. Uh this is designed as an opportunity for for you to have a look at what is in the recommendation from from Lake Deote uh and to have an opportunity to to to make comment uh without committing today to an endorsement request which is uh scheduled for Q2 of this year. uh in the intervening time it's our plan to incorporate the feedback from from uh from today's session and also to conduct further engagement with leaders in this community uh with the intention of we hope to uh to like secure buyin for the directions outlined in this strategy. Uh I I wish we'd said this in the in the covering report, but we also intend to use the equity lens and the climate and the like climate lens tools that we have corporately on each of the actions that will come forward to uh council for endorsement at the end of Q2. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Fowler. So I hope that that just frames the conversation for colleagues today. Um, so just for a little further clarification, we have two communications from Mayor Morgan. Those would be something that we would receive today. Staff will take those away and incorporate them in the work that they're doing on the draft revision. Uh, similarly, uh, I know councelor Frank circulated uh, to the clerks earlier something that she wanted to be included. So, while you can speak to that today, councelor Frank, um the ideal scenario stepping forward would be to add that communication to the council agenda so that it's formally on the record so staff can take that away as well. Uh again, certainly something we can talk to today, but we're not making additions, deletions. We're providing feedback to staff today to incorporate into the next iteration that they bring forward. So, that's how we're going to proceed, colleagues. Um, and Mayor Morgan, I know you had your two letters. Did you want to speak to them first or did you want to wait? Okay. So, I'm going to look. So, are you willing to move the receive and then speak to your So, we'll move the motion to receive the staff report and the communications and delegation uh submissions. We get a seconder for that, Councelor Ferrer. And then we'll get you want to be on the speakers list next. question. Sure. Go ahead. Okay. Happy to second that for you. A technical question. I don't have any communications, but I do have feedback. Am I able to verbally say that feedback and have staff still come back and incorporate that into the final document? Mr. Fowler. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Oh, through the chair. Yes, absolutely. Pardon me. Uh, yes. So, so all of our verbal feedback today uh is something the staff will be capturing uh as as well as the feedback that we had from our submissions. So, uh yes, thank you for asking that so that Mr. Fowler could confirm. So, that's been moved and seconded. I'm going to go to Mayor Morgan to speak to his communications first. Right. And I and I just on the heels of what you said, um the counselor before asked will be incorporated. I think what we're doing is suggesting things to consider. Um, we may not necessarily agree on some of the things that we share, but I think you're looking for our individual feedback as counselors on the document. You know, there'll come a point you may include some, you may not. We'll have the recourse if we feel like you didn't listen to our comments, which you may not cuz we're asking you to consider them that we might want to try to include them later as an amendment. Uh, we also may not like some things you put in and we may try to remove that later as an amendment. So, you'll see the way I've drafted my letters is staff consider thinking about these things, right? And I I understand that you may put some in, you may not. It may be structured under a pillar in some way. It may be part of a strategic framework, but I'm not going to prescribe or say put these things in for sure. I just wanted to outline two things um for the consideration of the process as you go out and engage with uh with other partners and as you uh as you think about the incorporation of the overall document and how everything fits together. the two pieces that I and I won't touch too much cuz I put them in writing to cuz I trying to get around my 5 minutes of time. Um the uh I I put two pieces in writing for consideration. One, you know, I I really do believe when we talk about economic development um and I'll first say I appreciate everything that's in the document. I'm not lessening that. But I there's two pieces that for me are important. I think you know the economies of the future are going to be driven by you know access and proper management of resources. And the two key resources are you know power and water right? We have a utility. Uh I think London Hydro is an enormous asset for uh public good in this community. Uh and their capacity to provide power in a secure and stable way. Their ability to engage as the province shakes up the electric electric industry means I think we need to be forward thinking about that strategic asset um uh as you know an economic development driver. And so I I put some consideration to that in the document. I think water too. Um we're one of the few areas uh in the world that can draw water from two significant freshwater sources with dual redundancy and adequate uh and significant reserves. Um our ability to provide a continuous and stable flow of water in the short term is is tremendous. You know in the long term you know we need to think about the management of that asset and resource as you know high volume water users and and and AI you know starts to consume a lot of that resource. So I think, you know, from an economic de development standpoint, you know, us turning our mindset to those kind of two pieces in in the medium and and long run is is really critical to us being at the forefront of discussions rather than being dictated to or trying to play catch-up. You know, the other piece I put in there is is kind of a thought to return London to what I feel was an area of previous prestige and that is we are a center for testing new products. We can be continue to be a center where innovation comes to try new things. And when I think about that, we have a tremendous uh amount of city assets both within the corporation as well as within our boards and commissions and partner organizations. You know, we have the ability to think differently about those assets and partner with private industry in the ways that we have say through wastewater uh previously at the greenway plant in saying, you know, we've got fire trucks driving around the city. you know, if you've got a new technology, you want to test a new type of GPS, like why couldn't we use our assets or our fleets to maybe be at the forefront of business development and innovation rather than, you know, hoping there's new technologies out there. So, the idea that we would incorporate into the economic development strategy this more openness to saying, you know, come and and potentially utilize our municipal assets to create new products and innovate right here in the city. uh and and if we set a framework that that manages risk adequately, I think this might have a place in the economic development strategy. So I forward that for your consideration too. The other piece and probably more controversial u maybe around the table for some of my colleagues is you know the federal government's interest in the defense industry um you know we have significant defense presence in the city. We have an international airport. Um I we could talk about aerospace and aerospace innovation. Um but there is a lot of federal investment um uh moving into the defense space. There's probably a lot of uh Canadian jobs at stake in that. And so, you know, we might want to think about how we approach that from an economic development standpoint. Um and I'll just finish by saying I appreciate all of the conversation from uh the delegates. I don't won't comment on that now. I appreciate what's in the draft report. won't comment on that now as much. I just wanted to have some time to forward a couple of ideas for consideration in future iterations of the draft that you can go out and consult on. So, I appreciate your time and work. Thank you, Mayor Morgan. Just so folks know, my speakers list right now, uh, and I did put you down, councelor Farah, I don't know if you want to go right now or if you wanted to wait, but I've got Council Farah, Councelor Pribble, and then Councelor Hopkins. So, you'll you'll wait. Okay. Uh, I just wanted to make sure cuz when you were seconding, I know you had your question, but I thought you were also wanting to get on the list. So, uh, I will go to councelor Pribble next. Thank you, chair. I do have, uh, two questions for Mr. BL and one question for Mr. Fowler. I know I cannot see if Mr. BL is he still there or is he at the podium? Yes, he's still here. Okay. Thank you, Mr. BL. So as I mentioned I have two questions and uh I was comparing the the strategic plan you made for us together with the Markhamm and Oakwell and when I looked at it and I'm happy with it thank you for that work but uh when I look at it for example I think it was Mark or Oakwell that you have in the implementation plan lead and when you put there the lead there was someone who was already accountable specific person who is going to drive it forward. I did not see that in our plan. Can you please tell me why it wasn't included or why you thought it wasn't important? Mr. Blake. Thank you uh through chair chairman uh to councelor the uh the the the ecosystem in in London is a little more complex than the ecosystem the economic development ecosystem in Markham. uh you have external you have you have an external economic development corporation and you have many other agencies that uh that Markham doesn't have. Uh it's not to exclude that the thought that we wouldn't want to think about it but there's a there's a need for more uh more championing more engagement as as uh Mr. Fowler has mentioned uh going out and looking at this next level of of engagement to include buyin uh from the organizations we have. Um thanks to the the the chambers uh remarks today, you can see that there's there's there's buyin there and there is buyin from a large uh component of the uh of the community, but there's still u more work that needs to be done to ensure that leadership is clearly defined. Councelor Pribble. Okay, thank you for that answer. But I'll be honest with you, I was really hoping that you together with our staff would kind of uh already show us the path forward. Path forward that we might not agree with, but path forward that we might uh uh we might get some suggestions, recommendation based on your experiences from other municipalities because exactly what you said, I totally agree with you, but I was hoping that you would be narrowing it down for us. Uh uh question for Mr. Fowler sir chair uh the downtown plan is going to be coming up as he said Q2 and I'm quite sure it's not going to be as aligned as it could be of course and I totally understand that and that's no one's fault because it's of the timing who will be doing the better deeper alignment with the downtown plan because I'm quite sure that it will be beneficial of our municipality to be more coordinated did these two plans together. Who will be doing it once the downtown plan is finished? Mr. Matherthers through the chair just uh uh this is an update to everybody as far as that timing. So we had oh Avengers originally suggested that uh the downtown master plan is going to come forward in the Q2 of 2026. So that is still the plan. We're actually um working incredibly um uh integrated with the work that Trevor's team is doing and we're going to bring those two plans to the same SPPC meeting. So you can see them both at the same time. We've integrated all those aspects and then you're going to be able to approve it or provide commentary at the same time. So we're working really hard together to be able to provide that to you. And I I think um I think there'll be some really great uh options coming forward. Councelor Prible. Thank you, sir. chair to Mr. Mayers just to follow up if I understood correctly. So when the two plans come together if we feel that the strategic economic plan is not deep enough in the downtown certain downtown initiatives we will be able to propose to have it included and it will be considered. Is that correct Mr. Mathers? Y through the chair whichever one of you want to Yeah, absolutely through the chair. Um absolutely that's the purpose for bringing these plans back to committee and council. So you have the opportunity to provide that input. So there will be absolutely an opportunity to provide that at that at that meeting. Thank you for that. And the second question was Mr. the blade which I forgot but I remember now when I look at the other ones and it said you know like let's say their pillars or they were more targeted more I consider uh aggressive improve invest in investment readiness attract new investment and jobs ours does cover these bases but I feel let's say in the other one it was more aggressive more targeted more driven uh do you feel or have you at communication with our staff that our implementation plan is going to be driven just as the pillars in the other cities. Mr. BL, thank you through the chair um to councelor the uh the initiatives that are identified the strategic initiatives that are identified are identified because we think that they will have impact. uh we think that uh there is u a locus of control that the city and its economic development partners have to ensure that that impact has. So these are all um identified because they uh will uh will result in jobs and investment to the point about uh the framing of the the strategic pillar itself. Um I think what uh the main difference is is that there's a verb at the beginning of the uh of the of the strategic pillars that uh the counselor has identified. The verb is not here uh in these strategic pillars. Uh it's a it's a consideration that can be uh given going forward. Um, but it it shouldn't without the verb, it still shouldn't take away from the directness or the the focus that the uh that the strategic pillar is meant to have through its initiatives. Councelor, thank you chair. No more questions currently. Okay, then I will go to councelor Hopkins. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to Deote and to staff. uh for allowing us to have this uh draft economic plan in front of us today and to have another conversation. I do appreciate the chair reminding us where we are in um in the process. And I I I think it's such an important plan in our city that I think sometimes we maybe jump the gun a little bit. Um I also want to thank uh the stakeholders here in uh uh the delegations because it's important that we hear those voices as well as council voices and and Mr. Fowler, I think you said it very well. Um, when it comes to, uh, having the bones, the good bones in our city, uh, but the challenge and the importance of how we all come together. I hope this is a start and I think this plan has kind of created that conversation in the community. I do want to just share some of my comments with you. Uh for me um the um um the pillar when it comes to transit or transportation and access is so vital in our city as a growing city. Uh I do think we are behind in how we uh support and uh our uh transportation, our transit and how we invest. Uh we do need to catch up with the growth in our city. I think it's a very important pillar. I do want to speak to pillar number three as well, which is the regional collaboration. And I'd like to just um underline and uh just speak to that with indigenous communities to me. Uh and I'll give you an example what happened this morning uh when I read uh the um uh the uh considerations coming from the mayor's office. And I want to thank the mayor for for bringing them forward. But when I read them, I automatically thought where is the indigenous component in in these asks. And I was not confident in the e economic plan that would give me that confidence that we look at everything through that indigenous lens. And in in a way it was a test for me this morning on how I look at things and how we can avoid adding other things to um projects. They should already be in the plan. They should give us that guiding principle that we don't have to uh double check everything. And I'd like to see a better job being done with that indigenous component, how we can strengthen that. Uh the other comments I sort of want to make uh just from my own perspective. Uh we hear a lot about AI. I'm not sure how that is taken into this plan. Regardless, it should be somehow a consideration both the positives and the negatives. I think um I I I just found that was an important part. We don't know what that future looks like but I think we from an economic lens really need to um consider that under aspirations uh when it comes to the environment leadership and sustainability. I think we should be doing it now. We shouldn't be aspiring to it. I think as governments we do a good job at reacting to to things but I would like to see uh that area strengthened. I was surprised to um read that our um our wages here in London tend to be a little bit below some of the other municipalities and that is concerning. Um I know um there's other cities um that tend to um have a um a more of a I guess a diversified Kitchener. I think in Kitchener, Ottawa, those cities tend to have a um a greater wage. we seem to be sort of a little bit stuck there. I'm not sure how we do a better job at that, but I think that's a consideration uh that we need to take. So, um those are my comments, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Councelor Hopkins. And I will go to Councelor Trussau. Thank you. Um, thank you very much. I have quite a few comments uh through the chair. I'd just like to um I'll try to frame these in a series of questions. Um, just to be clear, we're not being asked to approve anything today. This is just receiving this report. Thank you. That's very important to me because as this report is presented to to us today, I do not think it's ready for um approval yet and I will be making some suggestions although I made suggestions last time and I don't see them in here but I'll I'll try I'll try again. Um so first of all uh reconciliation I think we need to go beyond just sort of reciting the words reconciliation. We do that. We do that all the time. Um, I guess a technical question I have though is is this exercise that we're going through right now something to which the duty to consult would attach Miss Plet. Thank you. And through the chair, this would not be something typically that would engage a a duty to consultant. Councelor, the word typically intrigues me because I think there's a lot in here that could be subject to the duty to consult. So could could you refine that without using the word typically with respect to this particular exercise? Miss Plet, thank you and through the chair. So individual projects may in uh result in a duty to consult that's typically owed by the federal and provincial crown. Um there's certain requirements under the planning act uh for a duty to engage, but uh it's um it's something you'd have to look at specific projects within the economic development strategy to understand whether there'd be a specific duty. Uh councelor, may I ask what what activities have been undertaken so far uh that that would be uh in the nature of consulting with uh indigenous peoples in the area. Mr. Fowler or Mr. BL uh thank uh so thank you chair and and through you. So as part of the engagement process here, there were there was um a reach out uh so we we we work with a project uh advisory panel who gave us some guidance on different organizations and and individuals that we would bring out to the consultation or we would invite to the consultation and so there were invitations extended there. there was some some uptake, probably not as much as we would have liked, um but but there there was some there. And then following that, there was some individual one on-one conversations uh with an urban indigenous organization and an investment corporation from one of the neighboring nations. Um and really that's that's that's probably the extent that's really where we saw okay that's that's not enough, right? And we know that and um knowing that we we had a delivery timeline for this for this initiative. The idea behind the action was to lock in the the uh process the a good process that was properly resourced and um that that the key metric wasn't the timeline but the quality of what we were building. And so that's why it's in there as an action that's that sort of looks beyond the uh planning period for the strategy. Okay, I'll leave I'll leave it there for now. I will come back to that when we approve this because as things stand right now, I don't think it's been adequate and I'm just letting you know that's the direction I'm going in. Um, how can the um clearer connection between this report and arts and culture as suggested by one of our speakers be incorporated into the final report? Because while I think there is more mention of arts and cultures in this report, so it's a marginal improvement over the last one, I don't I don't think we're uh anywhere close to where we need to be in terms of uh this this area. How can that be improved, Mr. Fowler or Mr. BL? Uh thank you uh through to through the chair uh to councelor Truso. How can it be improved? Well, there there has been I mean there has been an effort made since the last uh meeting with council in January to improve it and that's thank you for recognizing that there's the the main focus for us with this economic development strategy was to uh change the impression that is in the community perhaps in certain circles that culture is not isn't we want to ensure that People come around to see seeing culture as an industry, as a creative economy, as a set of occupations and business types that lead to employment growth. It's not it's not uh it's not just quote unquote events. Uh it is it is an industry and you have such strength uh within the community. Not only your institutional supports that that uh that drive creative uh the creative economy uh but you have designations like the UNESCO city of music uh which is uh which can and has been creating momentum behind uh a uh more more creative industry. And you have investment uh you have investment in many areas of the city that are uh are all to do with the creative economy. So we we've made an effort uh the uh the idea of future future direction I suppose is to see how that could potentially be improved. But again we've uh we've taken this um to an end where we've heard from more than 200 people. It's been nearly 10 months of conversations. At some point, council is uh will will need to make a decision to move forward or not with a plan that's on paper. Uh and uh this is to the point where we've we've taken it. Thank you, councelor. Okay. Um I'll just I'll just briefly comment on that. I think much more um a much closer nexus is going to be needed and more emphasis is going to be um uh needed as well. I I know I'm probably running out of time so my next question deals with the um more detail I believe is needed on how to activate underutilized properties. You talk about the the problem of underutilized properties. Um, I don't I don't see enough in this report to um satisfy me in terms of where this is going. Could you speak? Could you speak? I mean, is is is what we're doing now okay? We just have to follow that through or do we need new programs or approaches in terms of dealing with underutilized uh vacant is another word uh properties? Thank you through the chair to councelor Truso. Uh there is there's more that can be done for certain. Uh there's uh uh inferred in the um in the in the initiatives are um enablement funds to uh uh to stimulate uh investment. There's uh uh references uh to one-stop London or a one-stop source of uh of approvals uh streamlining approvals processes. There are a number of things that are holding back investment uh in uh and underutilized prop and creating underutilized properties or ensuring they stay vacant longer. Uh and there are a couple of examples of ways of moving it forward. Yeah. Councelor. Well, I think one of the barriers to the chair is that some owners are just sitting on their vacant properties and they're not utilizing them. And I certainly hope that that is um something that's given some consideration and treatment. Um I see that there is a implementation cost progre projection and I'm wondering if that could be broken down further and how you arrived at those figures. Thank you chair. Um the uh the cost uh the the the cost estimates whether in staff time or and in staff time and in in pure costs are based on our experiences uh on our team of of of uh working in economic development at a municipal level but also working as a consulting team with municipal economic developers. Um and they're based on guidance of existing budget and uh and uh opportunities for potential budget counselor. Okay. Um I'll I'll let I'll let that go. I I consider that to be pretty vague and I hope that that will be concretized a little bit in our next um report. And finally, with respect to transit, we just went through a very very long multi-year um pro project dealing dealing with our mobility master plan. So I don't think we have to reinvent the wheel here in terms of wheel that's funny. We we don't have to reinvent the wheel in terms of um the the transit piece of this and I certainly hope that you are taking into account what we've already done and we're building on that because I just feel that this is sort of an empty shell in terms of how you um deal deal with it in terms of what we're doing internally in the city. So I'll just I'll just leave it at that. I'll say I am not satisfied with this report. I don't think adequate progress is being made. Uh I I think that a lot more work is going to have to be done and I wish I wish you well in doing that. But uh there'll be no surprises in terms of uh the position I'm taking on this. I I I really need to see a lot of improvements made in those areas that I just um spoke to. Thank you very much. Thank you, Councelor Trussau. I now have councelor Ferrer. Thank you, chair. Uh I'm just crossing out some of my questions because they were asked um just now. So I'm not going to be able to ask all of them, but I still have some. Um so the first thing I guess I'll start with Mr. Fowler. I really appreciate the work that you did. You have been very engaging. Um our monthly meetings, all the work me calling you um you know off meeting time saying you know what about this, what about this? I appreciate how responsive you've been. I also say to Miss Parsons, I think you've done a great job as well. I've only spoke to Deote once. I don't believe I spoke to you, Mr. Blaze, but I do understand just how the framework works and how you do the development and then we kind of go through city staff um and how that process works. But I think um so far the report uh does give us some details. It does leave some room for more details. I understand we're still at like a theme level. So, you know, some of the um concrete actions um hopefully will come as staff picks up uh the work from here on out and then we see those concrete actions. I won't ask the questions that were asked. I do appreciate the last questions that were asked by the last three or four counselors. Um but I I do want to ask I guess uh the ones that haven't been asked. And uh I guess I'll start with pillar one. And I see that you know this the strategy correctly identifies uh the workforce mismatch as a problem. Um and I see um that a delivery mechanism is kind of being contemplated a little bit but not necessarily pointed to. So I wanted to know um what is specifically meant by or what um is the intent or what can we expect uh when it when we are talking about improved workforce navigation and what will um I guess physically exist as a result um of that work for employers for workers and for students and and newcomers if we could get like an idea of what we might see with the final report. Mr. Bl. Thank you. uh chairman. Um the uh the the outcome of of of improving the workforce uh ecosystem is ultimately to ensure that employers who are looking for job uh employees of the future have those employees when when they're needed in the marketplace. So that um the ultimate outcome is that employers are able to move to market faster with their more quickly with their innovations uh and they're able to scale their businesses uh or m in some cases just maintain their businesses uh as ongoing entities and not face downsizing or closure um because of uh um um in ineffective uh ineffective workforce capabilities in the in the area. So, uh, that that essentially that's that's the main outcome. Is that the the direction that you're looking at for your question, counselor? Uh, just any like concrete um initiatives like um like a development panel or or I guess like how will that actually uh function when it comes down to let's say uh a potential employee looking to connect with an employer or vice versa. if you have any information on that. Mr. BL, thank you to through the chair. One of the uh one of the strengths of uh of London's workforce ecosystem is that there there is a channel for anyone who's desiring to find a pathway to employment to access. Um so there's not necessarily improvement there. It's the it's the interconnection of them so that the um everyone is working. I think one of the main things to do is to ensure that all all agencies have a clear picture of what the workforce of tomorrow looks like to councelor Hopkins point about AI uh that's where that come that would certainly come in uh the skills and requirements that are needed in the future so that all agencies are working towards supporting a London uh focused strategy on these are the types of people that are required in the future. move the training supports towards in those directions so that people are more quickly employable when they um when they when they complete training or um or skills improvements counselor. Thanks for that. Um okay uh I guess my next question I do want to just expand a little bit on in the indigenous partnership part. Um I do see the report does speak to the indigenousled partnership um development and that does suggest more consultation. Um but I wanted to know um what uh with the indigenousled engagement, what does that uh how does that translate into practice? Like what structures are being used uh to make sure that this is shaped with indigenous partners um and what structure are we considering to make sure that there is an equal uh partnership between uh the two? Mr. BL or Mr. Fowler. Um, thank you, Chair. The uh the recommendation, Mr. Fowler did a really nice job of describing the the engagement that has gone on that has occurred to date. Um and as we're preparing uh the strategy draft, we felt that as as he has said that engagement has been good, but it hasn't perhaps gone as far as needed in order to be more specific within the strategy. So thus the uh the more general nature of this uh this initiative and recommendation. It's not appropriate uh for us to um identify initiatives at this time without without concurrence from uh our indigenous nation neighbors. So the engagement needs to get the next steps need to get to that point where there is consensus or agreement on the types of initiatives that uh that would be um uh would be impactful and that the municipality and the nation have some control over. So how do you get there? Well, it is um it it's it starts with conversations and it ends with conversations. uh the um the the nations have development corporations, they also have councils. So navigating uh where at what level conversations need to take place from staff and the nation as well as from council and the nation are are important considerations to make because there are conversations at different levels and um I I I don't I don't want to make it sound it's certainly not a simple process but it is it is about building trust over time and um and finding pathways ways that are mutually beneficial and clearly seen as mutually beneficial. Councelor, thank you, Chair. How much time do I have? Uh, you have 2 minutes and 30 seconds left. Okay. I appreciate that answer. I would hope uh we get some concrete um frameworks for the for the final report. Okay. I'm going to move on to downtown because this is obviously a big thing for me. Um and I do see that downtown was named as a priority. Um, and I I see the practical tools are a little more open-ended at this point. Um, and I I feel like they um may ultimately depend on what comes through with the downtown plan, and I do understand the downtown plan is going to come to the committee at the same time. Those are two very large documents that we're going to be expecting, so it's going to be very heavy. Um, but I wanted to just know, um, as this strategy is supposed to be aligning with the downtown plan, what specific levers are being contemplated for downtown, like under pillar 2, I should say. um like uh with business retention supports or with investment marketing or um approvals or like modernization of things or or corridor activation. I I wanted to know if we had any idea of what specific tools uh we may expect. Mr. BL or Mr. Fowler, either one of you. Thank you, Chair, Councelor Ferrer. Um the the specific mechanisms are not defined within the strategy. The strategy is meant to uh provide guidance on where the most impact can take place. So I'm I'm a I'm I'm sorry but I won't be able to answer a very specific you know this is the the tactic that should be should be utilized to improve uh the the situation that or the uh the initiative that's that's been identified. Um there is there's I will say there's eagerness across the ecosystem the economic development ecosystem the different agencies that are involved to um to support downtown. there is it's it's clear. We've um spent more time uh discussing the pros and cons of positioning the downtown in the economic development strategy draft than any one single single um issue. Um it's it's a complicated one. Ultimately, we wanted to ensure that the strategic pillars were identified as we could be seen as citywide priorities. And that's why the downtown maintains its place as as a strategic initiative within within pillar 2. Um it does not take away from the the importance that is uh seen by the ecosystem on it. Um and on the importance that we place on it continuing to be and enhanced as the heart and soul of of this community. Councelor Ferrer. Thank you. That's a fair answer. I have a suggestion then for alignment when I think it would be would work with the economic development strategy and that would be kind of the governance structure and I know uh Mr. Fowler and Mr. McCauley if he's here we've had this conversation at at depth um with when it comes to the governance team and really who is the who has the responsibility on the administrative side is it you know does and where does that initially lie? Can that be within senior leadership? Can that be under the city manager? Can that be one of our arms length um uh corporations? I wanted to know I want to make a suggestion that we have whatever wherever the governance structure falls that we have a specific team that is focused on downtown plans initiatives and has that team align with the economic development strategy uh for this for citywide. So um I wanted to know if I could just maybe ask staff you or or Mr. Fowler or anybody who can answer um what are some of the discussions or what are some of the possibilities that we could have when it comes to that governance approach and what specific areas or just how how would it look like is that a possibility is that something we can do and how would I give that direction can I just say it here and you look into it and bring it back and we'll go to Mr. Fowler to start uh and I'll just let you know councelor you've got 30 seconds Mr. Feller, thank you chair and and through you. Uh so so certainly we we've had the governance conversations in the system optimization pillar. there is a pillar uh there is a strategy that's focused on the on the the internal like alignment uh within the city of of how we're going to like to uh manage this like the economic development as a subject area is very diffuse and it manifests across our city in various in various uh service areas. So as we look toward coordination and optimization, we're very much looking at how we do that within the city, too. And so that is a concrete strategy for us and we don't have the specifics nailed down because it's a this is for for us this is a like strategy and it's about direction more than the precision of each step at this point. Um all that to like say those conversations and those possibilities have very much been contemplated. What we're looking to do with this with this strategy is to cement the intent and the direction to to pursue those. Um, yeah, counselor. All right, I'll try to use my 30 seconds wisely. Uh, I do think that a good way to align an economic development strategy would to have maybe have a governance structure that has a c a portion in that, a team, a person or whoever that has a focus and the ability and the responsibility to see the implementations through the downtown plan coming through. Um, so I would just say that and I would like to see that in the final uh report. I'm running out of time. I wanted to speak about the airport. I got jet fuel running through my veins. So I got a lot of information there, but I don't think I have the time. So yeah, you actually are out of time. You wrapped it up right there on the spot. Um, looking to see if there's other speakers. I've got Councelor Stevenson. Thank you and thank you for the presentation. Uh just to be honest, I haven't supported this from the beginning. So um happy to be proven wrong at some point, but it was to to for the city to spend a quarter of a million dollars on a strategy as you're saying, not a plan. Is it's like again after all the plans we've got, it feels like this is a starting point instead of something that we can walk out. and it feels very general, very vague, and very widely spread. So, I'm open to hearing like what is the value? What would you say is the value that's been provided by this report? What am I missing? What what what have we been given that we didn't have before? Mr. Thank you, Council Stevens, and through the chair. um what you have now that you didn't have before are priorities. Um as you can even see through this discussion, there is uh a unique idea of what economic development is to each and every person and multiply that by the number of delivery delivery agencies that you have in the community. Multiply that by the number of people who sit on boards and commissions or run businesses in the community. There are countless uh numbers of ways that uh that people see economic development should occur and the uh the highest priorities that things should be given. So we have narrowed that down. We're down to five strategic pillars with two or three initiatives within each one. And that will provide support for the city staff uh to uh come with b to create business plans uh and to come to you for uh for direction and for funding uh to implement initiatives that will when implemented have a positive economic impact on the city of London. Councelor. Okay. Thank you. Um, and when I I noticed on uh page 19 that it's got the $4 million, $835,000 for one-time strategic studies and feasibility work, 600,000 a year for 5 years for annual program investments. Um, so will each of these be coming to council for approval? like when we get this and we say we approve it in April, is it just going to go and we're going to be report back or the details of this going to be approved by council? Mr. Fowler, thank you chair and and through you. Uh so depending on the cost center, some of these can be accommodated within existing budget and and so and so we we would be looking to execute those. anything where there is a a new incremental cost to the city, uh we would be following the the um established budget process and certainly for some of the bigger cost items we're it's it's our thinking at this point that it would be part of the next budget process. So, it would come back to council then. Councelor, thank you. Maybe I missed it, but I thought this 4 million was already approved in the um in our multi-year budget that we had. Mr. Fowler or Miss Barbone. Uh, thank you through the chair. So, um, through the last multi-year budget process, there were some placeholders that were put established to fund the plan, but there were no formal approvals for anything coming out of the plan because that was not yet known. So, um, certainly, as Mr. Fowler described anything that is a new investment would need to go through um likely through the strategic plan then through the multi-year budget as a business case and everything would ultimately be subject to council approval as part of the multi-year budget. Councelor, thank you. So then this estimated cost and the 4 million, we're not looking at anything actually happening until the next multi-year budget. Mr. Fowler, thank you chair and and through you I would say anything significant in terms of new costs. There are a number of items uh in in the plan that are about coordination, governance and infrastructure uh pieces that we can do within existing budget uh and with existing resources. And those would be the pieces that we would prioritize for for action now. And some of those are really context setting pieces uh that that we hope then create the conditions for some of the uh costed initiatives to to be more successful and those will come later. Councelor. Okay. Thank you. Um I noticed in the report it talked about London added 18,000 net new jobs with more than 70% of that growth concentrated in health and social assistance. And that comes up quite a bit through the reports health and social assistance. Can you let me know what social assistance is? Mr. Blake. Thank you. Uh, chairman uh to councelor Stevenson. Uh, the health and social assistance is a uh is an industrial code that Statistics Canada uses to track. Um, it's it's one of one of about a dozen highlevel um uh industrial codes that uh that Statistics use to track, excuse me. and social um social services is I think what uh we may uh imagine it to be agencies that are uh established to support uh the health and welfare of uh of members of the community. So there are organizations, agencies, there are likely some private sector businesses in that space as well. Counselor we get used to it. Um so then just to follow up on that in the conclusion um in the appendices it talks about healthcare and social assistance and one of the key challenges and trends it says fragmented funding for integrated municipal responses. So I was just trying to can you just maybe explain more about that key challenge Mr. Blake. Thank you. Uh, chairman, uh, councelor Stevenson, the the the challenge is around the the challenge is probably in the context without having without reading it right now in front of me, the context is likely in sorry, the the point is being made likely in the context of how do we identify uh, priority sectors that hold potential for the growth of London's economy. That's that's a priority for us in terms of uh being able to identify strategic directions that will have the most uh impact on a on a community. In in the case of situations where funding or let's say economic growth or economic maintenance of a sector is highly reliant on external factors like a provincial agency or a federal agency. uh then the ability for a community a municipality to have impact on that sector and create growth within it is limited. So we would move that we would move that sector down the rung in terms of priorities. We would concentrate more on sectors where a municipality or a community through its investment in time and money can have a positive impact. site readiness, uh, investment readiness, uh, incubation, uh, innovation and technology, business supports. Yeah, counselor. Uh, yeah, thank you. This was specifically around social assistance though, right? Health and social assistance because we're not doing health funding. So, um, oh, maybe is if I h I have some more specific questions. Is it be who should I be emailing on the more specific ones here? Mr. Fowler, I'm going to uh guess that that would be to you. Okay. Thanks. Um there was also a mention here that um 43,000 untapped labor potential not in the workforce with barriers disproportionately affecting indigenous racialized women, people with disabilities, newcomers. I did go to the reference point, but I didn't see anything. Is it possible to get the actual statistics on that, Mr. Blake? uh through through the chair uh to councelor Stevenson. Yes, absolutely. We can get you data to support that counselor. Okay. Thank you. So then um on my page 104, it talks about results. And when I look at this, I worry that we are doing this again where we've got such a broad scope that we're all over the place looking at everything and then we're not really focused. So given that this is an economic development strategy, we've got results. We've got economic growth and workplace development, downtown revitalization and urban vibrancy, but then we've got housing and community stability, sustainable and environmental leadership, tourism and culture, regional integration, transportation. I mean, if it were me, I would go through I would cross out like I would only keep economic growth and downtown revitalization. Housing is a separate thing, sustainability, tourism, regional, transportation, public perception, inclusivity. I mean, I think we should just focus like because we've got so many plans as you've seen. This one to me should just be economic development and strategy so that we can keep it tight, hold the attention. Otherwise, we're all over the place and we don't even know what uh what happened. So, that's my feedback there would be to uh cut it right back and keep it tight. Um and then on page 120, it talks about um streamline processes and clear points of contact. Respondents expressed frustration with bureaucratic barriers and a lack of clarity in city processes. They would like a more welcoming, efficient, and accessible system for navigating city services, obtaining permits, and accessing economic development support. I can't tell you how often I hear that. And that that would be a gamecher for many of our uh businesses. The other thing is we talk about bold ideas. I didn't really see any. I might have missed them. Maybe those are coming once we get the strategy going. The openness, accountability. Just to let you know, you got about 30 seconds. Okay. I'm all for. I'd like to know the KPIs. So, if we're going to have an annual report, I'd love to know before like as we approve it and we we all agree on what it is we're measuring and getting back next year. And I'll leave it there because I've lost my spot here. But the one point of contact, one point of accountability, an overview, I think as concise as we can keep it that these are the very important things. We're going to measure them and we're going to report them and we're going to celebrate. Thank you, councelor. And that is your time. Looking for other speakers. Councelor Frank. Thank you. Yes. And I'll mostly just be making some comments and I appreciate um staff's uh willingness to respond to some of my questions in advance. Um I also echo councelor Stevenson's comments just now in regards to having some KPIs for the final approval. I'd really love to see that as well when that comes to us for uh final review. I did circulate some of my comments to my colleagues and I'll submit them as well to the uh council agenda. But specifically in regards to strengthening uh the strategic pillar number two, uh I would also like to explicitly add completing and implementing a circular economy framework that's in our strategic plan and it's in our climate emergency action plan. And so I think it's important that we continue to see some movement on that uh especially given the um uh resource recovery innovation hub we have at the south end of the city. I also would like to see some uh pursuit of opportunities to attract green economy industries. I think as we look to the future, it's important for us to try and futureproof some of our economic choices and the green economy including clean technology, renewable energy, retrofits is one of the fastest expanding sectors and I think it's important that we recognize that and reflect it in our plan. Additionally, under strengthening strategic pillar number three for regional collaboration, I would suggest we build on the existing efforts of the inclusive economy London and region group. They existed for about 3 years um but due to lack of funding no longer exist. But they did a lot of incredible work in regarding uh regards to building an inclusive economy and finding anchor um institutions like the city and uh the hospitals and the university and trying to build local economic chains which is why I suggested under uh item number three. Um, I think building that work really supports local labor force participation as well as um addressing the regional uh supply chain. I also want to say I like in general item 4.2. So I want to keep that uh in regards to improving regional and local transportation uh sitting on the transit commission. We hear regularly about the uh need for more industrial transit servicing. So um I think a 4.2 is great. I also like the mayor's suggestion for energy and water. So I would support some additions for that to be included. Uh I will also say I heard mention of AI a lot. I don't want to see any mention of data centers in any of these plans uh unequivocally personally because I know that they are a huge draw in energy and water and provide very little economic benefit. So just wanted to throw that out there. Um I'm also personally not interested in prioritizing any investments into defense or military. Uh I did hear some comments on that. Just wanted to share that. Um, in regards to item 4.3, the aerospace innovation zone item and actions, um, I'm worried that some of it might actually work against some of our already council endorsed, uh, strategies, including the climate emergency action plan, depending on how it's actually implemented. Um, in regards to the aerospace innovation center, uh, some of my concerns might be addressed if I understand what kinds of manufacturing, testing, and services would be provided. Um, and I'm not saying that's not an important industry. I just don't know to earlier comments if we should be prioritizing that when we have many other competing priorities. Um because I'm worried about a lack of public benefit in in regards to seeing um that strategy. Uh so predominantly some concerns being that uh if it is more about increasing you know how many flights are coming to that location I see some issues with public health concerns as well as environmental concerns. Um, but if it is more about, you know, developing new technology or ways to, uh, improve the aerospace sector from a green perspective, I'd actually be interested in it. So, um, I'll probably spend some time between now and council learning a little bit more because I might either be supportive of it or against it. Um, so those are just a couple of my thoughts, but I will submit them to council and again appreciate the work that's been done so far. Thank you, Councelor Frank. I have councelor Ramen next. Uh thank you and through you chair. Um first thanks to Deote and those that participated in the consultation and the team from our city staff as well for all their leadership on bringing uh this work forward. But um I'm a bit lost as to what our next steps are in terms of the process. I understand another uh the Q2 2026 we will get the the final version of this report but right now what I'm hearing is a lot of members of council inserting their own opinion on where we're heading but I'm not sure how we take that to council to actual council direction for staff to bring back. So I need a little bit of clarity because I could go for five minutes on all the things I'd like to see in the plan and where I'd like to spend my energy but I don't understand how that process works right now. So I'm just looking for some clarity. Mr. Fowler, thank you, Chair, and and through you. So, th this is about dialogue. Um, this is about stress testing, and I would say every conversation that we've had since we first started forming drafts has resulted in new insights, new new and great critiques on ways we can push it forward. And so, uh, as as complex as the as the conversation can be, it is helpful for us. And we're we're soaking this all in. We are writing this all down. And we are we are I believe we are tasked with taking all of this like away and and um synthesizing it and putting forward what what we would advise is the best approach based on the work that that's that's been done so far what we heard today and also some conversations that we plan to have throughout April and May with others in the in the community. Um, and so, uh, if you have pieces that you want to share, things things that you think we need to like push harder on or step back from, we we we want to hear it. This is a forum to have a conversation here, uh, we're we're we're also happy to hear afterward if if that's your, uh, preference, but like really, um, we're interested in hearing what's working and what's not. And, uh, we're going to take that that that back and do our best work to deliver the best final strategy for you in Q2. councelor. Uh, thank you. Okay. Um, I appreciate that the the exercise that we're undertaking at this time. My challenge is I don't know how we discern what's important if we all have our individual perspectives on what's important right now and how they align with the report. So for instance, when I look at this report and I read the portion of the report that ties into health care and social services, I see opportunities that we're missing when it comes to our research uh and innovation uh sector where I see healthcare research going in this city. How we seem to have be missing the integration of healthcare research within um and and understanding how we interact with that because we are at the municipal level. So I'm not sure maybe if you can expand on how those conversations have went around healthcare innovation and what maybe the participants see as the role of the city in helping to foster an environment for healthcare research. Mr. BL or Mr. Fowler? Yeah, go for it. So, so thank you chair and through you. Um, yeah. So, in terms of the of the of the healthcare piece, of course, we have data that shows the healthcare is a a uh priority sector, healthcare and life sciences. We've engaged with with uh members from the healthcare field as well as folks from from uh Western who work in innovation. uh and and u I I I guess I would characterize the conversations as uh as a conceptual uh a like agreement that there's partnership and collaboration opportunities and a desire for the city to engage more in in being part of the of the uh planning and of the mobilizing resources. They haven't got gotten down to what exactly we're going to do. Um, but the intent is there and that's where the conversations have have have been uh with with the folks that uh we've talked to through the engagement process. I don't know if Paul you have anything to add to that, Mr. BL. Thank you uh Mr. Fowler um through the chair. You set it up well. uh the um we had uh even in the in the a presentation a couple of weeks ago to members of the ecosystem we had representatives from uh the post-secondary um community and uh they liked what they saw uh in the draft gave us some some recommendations to to bring forward which we've been we've incorporated um but I think to uh to Mr. Fer's point about the next steps. If there are specific ideas that you'd like to have come forward, then there's still opportunity for that. Councelor, thank you. Um, I'm just wondering in terms of orders of magnitude, where do you see the greatest opportunity within the pillars? Mr. BL. Thank you. Uh through the chair uh to councelor Ramen. Um we don't want to prioritize the pillars I suppose uh because the five are equal are equally important. The last one is not there last but not least. It's there because it is a a coordinating function and um while the ecosystem is working well, there are ways to improve the city's participation in that as well as the um as well as the the outcomes from other other agencies. So that is a critical one. If if one uh thing needs to be done as an outcome of this work, it's the uh it's the uh the ongoing we call it a table, a round table for uh for in my words today. Uh but that kind of ongoing conversation where the ecosystem is actively rowing in the same direction and those directions are the four other pillars. Um there's uh tremendous potential in um in technology oriented industries, green industry. Um the evolution, the the broader macroeconomic evolution of our economy is towards that. So London is quite well positioned and I know through conversations there's frustrations that it just isn't more even at this point in time. But the opportunity, the potential still exists to elevate that. So, I can't help but think that is an an incredible way to not only bring uh to one counselor's point about increased wages uh in the community, um increased business prosperity, uh less environmental impact, all of those all of those um synergies with London's current corporate strategy or municipal strategy align when it comes to technology oriented um uh investment. Council Ramen. Uh, thank you. Um, okay. I understand what how that answer went in the direction that it went in. Um, I'm just wondering perhaps more in line with in the scope of the different sectors of which we've looked at if we have more uh if we can have more clarity on orders of magnitude from the sector perspective. I can see it in b bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro broken down in employment data in the appendices but I'm wondering from a future trend perspective where do we see the opportunities for growth and whether or not that can be given to us in some form of an order of magnitude thank you uh through the chair the the the opportunities are in uh in in technology development within within each of the sectors I suppose uh if it's manufactur ing if it's food processing, it's in advanced manufacturing. It's in um um increased automation uh increased skill sets required to um to operate facilities that have more automation within the pure more pure technology research and development sectors. It is increasingly about making connections with post-secondary institutions and ensuring that the talent base exists in the city of London to uh not only attract that kind of investment but ensure existing investors have the workforce the the the skills that are required to scale their businesses. um when it comes to uh so that's speaking to most of the largest sectors within the the employment base as you mentioned counselor um technology oriented businesses and manufacturing in in London are the two strongest and then services delivery when uh government and uh and social uh assistance services and health sector uh is uh really again still more about technology ology oriented uh improvements uh and that is where the macroeconomy is going. That's where uh countries like Canada will continue to succeed to capitalize on the talent uh and the um and the uh the business base that we have. Councelor, thank you. Um so my interest is in the advanced manufacturing the technology the automation the healthc care uh defense um but also entrepreneurial and when I read read some of the uh data that's in the appendices around entrepreneurs I see that we have an interesting statistic around immigrant entrepreneurs here in London and I'm wondering if you can speak to kind of the recommendations we may see come forward from your team on what should or I guess that's more implementation but where we should take that information. Mr. BL through the chair to council ramen the uh the ecosystem exists to support entrepreneurs. Um and uh there is a recognition within the ecosystem that new Canadians, immigrant entrepreneurs require um um different types of services than um than uh someone who's uh been here longer. uh there's uh adjustments to uh working within current banking within the banking systems with it with getting uh technology uh support funding um for businesses which is different uh for immigrant entrepreneurs. um the the the broader perspective of ensuring that London is um is positioning itself as a city of of of the future of equality uh of um having its eyes on um the future of technology is attractive to those looking at Canada as a place to invest their uh their their time and their money. and the more London can be on that stage and ensuring that not only that perspective is out but also the economic development players whether it's at the city or lec or the chamber of commerce or any other agency are are um connected to the uh the the um the uh the brokers I guess for those uh for those connections with immigrant entrepreneurs the better position the city will be. Councelor, thank you. Yes, I'm interested in the point around reducing borrowing costs, lower interest rates, supporting innovation and entrepreneurship at the local level through some incentivizing as well. And I'm just wondering how much information we can anticipate to receive further than that. Right now, it's just kind of a sentence. Mr. BL, thank you. Uh, Mr. chair uh to councelor Ramen. Um I can I can I I don't have uh an answer specific to that now, but I can I can go back to the team and see what uh what information may be available for that. Is that sufficient and provide it through Mr. Fowler? Counselor. Oh, thank you. That's excellent. My last point will be around youth and looking at the information for youth in our community here. looking at, you know, unemployment rates as well as educational pathways. Just wondering, again, I know we've engaged institutions. Just wondering how much more we're going to do to to get a sense of how we can help spur growth there. Mr. BL, thank you. Uh, Chair Councelor Ramen, um, can I provide the same answer as the last, uh, the last one? Yes, we will. Okay. Councelor, anything? Thank you. That's it. Thank you. Okay, I have no one else on the speaker list. Uh I am going to ask councelor Ramen to take the chair. Uh just I'm going to offer some brief comments myself. Thank you. I have the chair. Go ahead. Thank you. So uh I want to say to Mr. Bl and Mr. Fowler and and all of the team that have been involved in this, uh thank you for the work that you've done so far. Um perhaps I uh have a different view of this than some of my colleagues. Um I don't expect uh at this point al although certainly in the final draft some general KPIs might be a good thing. Um the reason it's a strategy and not a plan is because economic development requires partnerships. Economic development is not going to happen because this council says do x y and zed. It is going to require investment from the private sector. It's going to require businesses stepping up and saying that they want to play an active uh role in our community as employers uh and as investors. And uh we can identify any number of things that we want to work on. If no partners step forward to fill that role, then it's simply not going to happen. So we can have all the strategies in the world and I've I said this to folks during the strategic plan uh development as well. When you have 150 priorities, you have no priorities because when everything becomes a priority, nothing is a priority. So, I don't want to get into the weeds. I don't want to get into the the details of of how is this going to happen? How's this going to be implemented? Because I think first we have to have the strategy and then we have to go out and we have to talk to partners at the chamber, at tech alliance, at the small business center, with the homebuilders, with the development institute and find partners who are willing to move some of these items forward. Now, I will say a couple of the things that I really find positive coming out of what we have in front of us today. Um, and I know this is one of those items where councelor Trussau and myself and Mr. Henderson all agree that the UNESCO City of Music is a key component of what we can do on the cultural scene in driving economic development in our city. So, I I'm happy to see that component continue to be referenced in here. Uh, picking up where councelor Ferrer ran out of time. I think the emphasis on the London International Airport and the opportunities there are fantastic. I think, and I'll say this is a great example of where we don't all agree. I don't agree at all with councelor Frank's concerns. I think this this actually is a very valuable part of the plan. I think we've underestimated and and undervalued what our airport can do for us for honestly for decades in this community. So, I think that there's tremendous opportunity there um for both freight and passenger travel and the attraction of businesses who are able to bring in things by air or send out things by air, but also who have access through Veterans Memorial Parkway to the 401 corridors in the entire region. So I I think those are a couple of very positive things in here that I'm very very supportive of. Uh let's develop that uh that transportation piece particularly around aerospace. You know I've had the opportunity to visit the international test pilot center. Um we have some heritage to our city involved in the aerospace industry uh with the training of World War II pilots with the the Secrets of Radar and the Jet Aircraft Museum are out by the airport. There's a cultural piece to that as well. Um and so I am very very supportive of those things. Uh I also support the the comments that the mayor made and in his submission around energy and and water um and to councelor Hopkins point around uh in collaboration and and working with the indigenous communities especially on things like shared water infrastructure I think is a really critical step forward and I don't think that that is paying lip service to reconciliation. And I think that's a real action towards reconciliation if we're developing partnerships that develop better water and wastewater infrastructure for all of our communities. So I see us going in the right direction here. I will say that I do share some of councelor Stevenson's concerns about perhaps being a little too much that maybe a few of these things are are being prioritized where perhaps the return on investment is not going to be as valuable as some of the other ones. And again, I come back to that if everything's a priority, nothing is a priority sort of mantra where I think we may need to look at some things that maybe are are elevated higher than perhaps um we're going to see the ability to actually execute as well because when we hear about things like activating underutilized or vacant properties, well, you know, colleagues, we all know the budget numbers. We're not sitting on tens of millions of dollars that we can go out and buy properties. 30 seconds. So, um there are are realistically going to be budget limitations on this as well. That's why we have to see those in the next multi-year budget of business plan business cases as well. But I think we're off to a good start. Thank you. I'll return the chair to no one on the speakers list. Okay. If we have no one else on the speakers list uh then councelor Prible is your hand up for a second time? Yes it is. I do have a quick question to you chair. In the report it states next steps. This report marks the completion of deoid's engagement in the city of London on the economic development strategy etc etc. But uh uh Mr. BL he was writing few points down and my question is to either him or to staff if this is correct or if they are going to take those points further Mr. Fowler. Thank you chair and and and through you uh in terms of final deliverables uh the the appendices that are in front of council represent the final deliverables for the project. there are project closeout activities. Um, and I like to think that we have a good relationship uh uh through this project and so u I can anticipate that the work the notes that Mr. BL is is currently writing down will be will be part of that final project closeout phase. the substantive work to occur between April, May, June into the Q2 that that is going to be led by staff. Um, uh, because this is the conclusion of the formal contract piece with Deote. Councelor, thank you very much through you, Chair. Mr. Blake, can I receive your confirmation as well? uh through the chair uh council privile. Yes, we will uh work with uh with Trevor and get the information to council that uh that's been requested. Thank you very much. No more questions. Thank you, Councelor Pribble. Councelor Vanir Berken. Thank you, Chair. Um, I wanted to u um perhaps echo a little bit about the um blessings that we enjoy geographically uh here in London in this part of Canada, this part of Ontario. Visav our access to uh international markets. I mean, we only have to look at the CPKC rail line that seamlessly travels right through into Mexico and from there, uh, truck traffic can get into Central America and South America. Um, and through the US, of course, and we have to remind ourselves that that market, the US market is an hour away by transport truck from London, Ontario. Uh you look at these transportation linkages uh and yes with the uh London International Airport, a very robust airport uh long uh runways can handle uh very large uh freight freight aircraft. So there there are we have an infrastructure blessing in addition to the geographic blessing which begs for not much improvement to be very very effective to get to very significant markets and that's really what attracts investment is they they see that they can access these significant markets um and and have willing and wanting customers. I everything you can see it all kind of linking up and that is indeed a challenge is to get through that. Uh but for example the water I mean again that was stated earlier the water is an amazing asset. It's high quality water uh huge volumes available. You look at the food processing industry. It hasn't been talked much about, but we're surrounded by some of the best farmland in the country in North America and food processing is increasing in this area and that that requires vast amounts of water. So all these ingredients are around us. They just need to be connected and maybe improved upon a little bit. um more streamlining on the transportation infrastructure, but again excellent rail linkages, the airport, the 400 series highways connecting up with uh uh the interstate system in the US. And we just remind ourselves again that if we can get through these next three years, we will almost certainly have a less trogdite president. And I think we can all look forward to that. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Van Mirburgen. Uh, I have no one else on the speaker list, so I am going to ask the clerk to open the vote. Uh, having grown up watching Terminators, hopefully the data centers don't, uh, need too much power to process the vote for us. Councelor Frank, I just saw a puff of smoke go up. What's councelor Purple? Yes. I'll vote yes. according councelor Trasau as no closing the vote. Motion carries 12-2. Thank you colleagues. So that completes our first item for direction and thank you Mr. Bl uh for your time. Uh you're certainly welcome to stay and watch the rest of our scintillating agenda or proceed with other work you might have this afternoon, but we do appreciate you spending so much time with us. Uh moving on, item 4.2 is the mayoral direction 20260001 creation of affordable home ownership incentive program report back on program options. Uh we do have two requests for delegation status. So I'm going to first look for a mover and a seconder uh to receive the delegations. Councelor Mallister and Cuddy. Thank you. And we'll ask the clerk to open the vote on that. Council of Turbo votes yes. Trusso votes yes. Closing the vote. Motion carries. 14 to zero. Thank you, colleagues. So, for the second time today, Mr. Zafman, despite having a last name that starts with zed, uh you get to go first, uh as you were first on the agenda. So, uh when you're ready, uh just as before, please. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh Jared Zman, CEO at the London Homebuilders Association. And again, nice to nice to go first. Uh thank you once again uh for opportunity to speak to this program. Um you know we've uh we've had a chance obviously to delegate uh in front of uh committee uh pri previously and and shared a bit around our thoughts on this program. Um you know as I mentioned in previous remarks certainly we're finding there are challenges uh locally in our economy especially in the construction and the home building industry. uh you know so we are right now advocating with all levels of government to see where support can be found uh really in part to help get more people into home ownership and to get more homes built in our community which have a significant economic impact uh this program and and what's been uh brought forward certainly we appreciate all the work that staff has done on this I think it's helped uh bring a lot more information and uh and ideas out to council which is helpful um I think one thing we have found is certainly we still very much as an organization uh found that the from the report itself feel that we still speak very strongly to the idea that this program we felt would have been most beneficial um as a rebate that could have gone directly to builders to help offset um the bu the excuse me the list price of a home. uh when we speak about this program and the way that it could potentially most help with affordability um that if someone could potentially reduce their list price by that total amount versus potentially getting a check after the fact uh could have likely the largest impact to helping with home affordability. Uh at the same time I think recognizing with a number of conversations with counselors um I don't know if we've really found a lot of support with that and and certainly understandably in part uh based around challenges relating to um residency at the address so that there is concerns around home flipping or rentals. Uh so certainly heard those challenges and concerns. Um so I I really don't know at this point certainly if there is a a directive here or a specific option that might have the most support. Um, what I will say is certainly appreciate I think the mayor's creative support in this and trying to use the housing accelerator fund dollars to be able to support development charges essentially. Um, you know, the idea of using the housing accelerator fund to help create new housing units, which certainly is the intent of the fund, I think is an excellent way of doing it, and it also prevents the potential of development charge reductions going on the tax base, which I don't think anyone on council really wants to do. Uh at the same time, we are certainly challenged and finding trying to find ways to help reduce uh prices for homes for all home buyers. Uh and so finding that any additional criteria could certainly make this program more challenging uh and could limit the potential pool of eligible candidates to it. Um so again, we are certainly in your hands at this point uh and hope that uh however comes out of this that there could be obviously hope and support uh for our industry and getting more homes built and more people into home ownership. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Zafman. And we'll invite Mr. Wallace now for his delegation. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair, and uh me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me members of council uh here today. Uh I do want to repeat what uh uh Jared had to say. I agree 100% with his uh presentation. I I do want to thank you um his staff to be frank with you on having they were proactive after the last meeting with uh where you sent it back with a bunch of changes and we we need to be frank that the changes that were added to the potential of the program. Uh we expressed to staff that we thought the uptake on it would be limited at best and so we needed to strip back to where the mayor had uh taken the leadership role on how to get this half a money out the door and support home ownership. And if that wasn't going to happen, that we would look for um another way for that half of money to get spent so that it it supports the development of new housing and housing in this community and using that half of money before it expires. And so I'm not going to comment on what the discussion will be on option one and option two and so on, but the mayor did send them a letter and I have it here that in the piece and I appreciate the leadership on this. What at the end of the day, we're have the the industry is looking for council to help the industry using half a money and in this in the previous case was using half a money and builder's money to to move the yard stick further on developing housing that in ownership that uh we spent a lot of time and effort on the rental side. We thought this was a great program for the ownership side of of the equation of the housing market. And so, uh, we look forward to what the discussion is today. Uh, in principle, we, uh, uh, believe in the direction that the mayor has put out in his letter here. Uh, but we'd be happy to hear what the discussion is, if there's any of the options that are put on the floor. But the more handcuffs you put on this program, whether you're a first-time buyer, whether you've lived in London all your life, the more handcuffs you put on it, the less chance the program will have success. And that is not what you want and that is not what we want. So, uh, appreciate hearing what the discussion is today. And and uh we as an industry are more than ind interested in working with you and staff and making sure that we um put this half of money that you have uh left in this fund to good use to make sure that we are able to put shovels in the ground in this community over the next two years. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Wallace. Excuse me. colleagues. Okay. Uh, Mayor Morgan, uh, you'd actually circulated an alternate motion. Uh, so I'm going to go to you to see if you want to introduce an alternate to what was in the report. Uh, thank you. So, yes, I would. Um, I I do have an alternate motion that I've circulated uh in the correspondence. I would be happy to move that. If there's a seconder, I'd provide rationale for why I'm moving that. And I see councelor Ramen as a seconder. Um, and the clerks have loaded that as vote three in escribe. If folks want to refresh, and I'll ask the clerk to put it up on the screen as well so that the public can see it. Uh, and then when you're ready, Mayor Morgan, if you'd like to speak to it, go ahead. Uh, sure. So, um, I want to first thank our staff, thank council, and thank uh, the representatives from the industry who consulted with staff on the report. uh the motion before you essentially receives the report and the other pieces of communication and then provides uh a direction that I'm hoping will satisfy what I heard from my colleagues, what I've heard from the industry and what other colleagues have written in some of their correspondents on this. Um, essentially what it does is is recognize that I'm not sure we can cobble together um a majority of votes of council today that would that would represent the original program as contemplated and and and be effective uh without uh the the desire of colleagues to layer some conditions onto that which probably as you can see in the report starts to shrink the possibility and effectiveness of the program in driving the number of units we want and and supporting you know the goals of home home ownership. But the housing accelerator fund dollars are really important because we have a working time frame that we have to try to get the the dollars out the door to create the units to get the next trunch of I think 12 million or so dollars I think it is. Um I I will say I made one error in my letter. I said uh permits for new units by September 7th 2027. It's 2026 that we actually have to get the permits pulled but you can actually build them uh by 2027 I believe. So uh just a small uh small error there in the corresponds to my letter. it's not in the motion. But essentially what I wanted to do with this alternative motion is is recognize that our progress towards targets are are like are really important. And so um getting an updated report from staff about what our progress is, the remaining unit gap, time considerations, the risks of uh to program outcomes of of not achieving that uh and the proposed incentive options that would support housing activity within the the remaining program window. So let's try to maximize the use of the housing accelerator funds. to do that. I'm suggesting a couple of options, but I mean staff could bring back more. One is recognizing what was said here and and in and in part what councelor Stevenson wrote in her letter. You know, the idea of develop of of you know, subsidizing development charges in some way uh for new residential development. Uh but including options that could be targeted under the half money's time frames and probably the half money's priorities. It's like we could talk about targeting just the missing middle and those sorts of uh uh developments that we know that the half money was really designed to try to hit and that we know is is a bit of a lag in some of the the progress we're seeing on the housing development side. So that's what B does. C recognizes the success of the the ARU incentive program for existing homeowners um that exists for exterior units. There's there's two programs, right? We had the the build the exterior unit and then there was an an additional program that was if you want to house individuals from the list that we would give you extra money. I'm not talking about replicating that program. But what we saw was on the loan side of the program just for creating additional units. There was a significant uptake for people who wanted to build those units not exterior to their house but as part of the existing house and adding you know a basement unit. Uh, I'm suggesting staff investigate perhaps moving to a grant portion of that loan program to try to accelerate the interest in that and drive a bunch of units in the time frame to hit our our housing fund target. Again, staff would report back on whether that's possible and what that looks like. But that piece of the recommendation gives that flexibility um to see if we could actually achieve some goals there. And then of course D and and listening to my colleagues desire for uh having a lot of the details you know what are the implementations considered for each of these options estimated costs expected housing unit impact whether or not it could be impact implemented under a community improvement plan existing one um or whether we would have to have bylaws council because if we have to create a whole new community improvement plan we're talking about months and months of lead time we probably missed the September window and we're doing uh different public consultation for a new community improve improvement plan than an addendum to an existing one. And so that's the direction I put forward is, you know, let's take kind of all of the discussion that happened so far. You know, the intent to try to drive numbers, the intent to use the housing accelerator funds effectively and then give staff the the empowerment to say come back as quick as you possibly can with some options in these spaces based on both the comments from the industry, the comments from colleagues, the letters submitted, and I think the discussion we've had and see where we can go from there. That's what I'm uh put on the table and I appreciate the the secondary for supporting that. Thank you, Mayor Morgan. I'm going to look for other speakers. Councelor Stevenson. Thank you. I'm happy to have a new motion to look at and to be able to support because we do see the need that is out there uh within the industry and within uh people that are trying to uh purchase a new home right now. the init in initial plan that came uh I I couldn't get behind it as I already said right the administrative burden the fact that it was a cash rebate after the purchase had already gone through for so many reasons I didn't like it and I understand that some of the changes we made made it worse but you know for me that was intentionally to try to support the referral back for something better so it's good to have this um I just wondered through you to staff and and I understand that This information is coming, but can is there any just sort of broad information we can get around the remaining gap and the approximate amount of the final payment for the half Mr. Mathers? Uh through the through the chair absolutely that's uh can provide you like a very high level update before that more comprehensive report. So the final payment um there's four payments each payment is approximately $20 million each. So the final payment is that uh is going to be 20 million and that payment is a conditional on us meeting our targets or showing progress towards the targets. It's it's fairly uh open-ended comment from CHC. So we're actually having a meeting with them tomorrow to be able to be able to give you more robust information at the at uh um the update report. Um I can tell you as well that as of um last week we are at 84% of our target and with approximately a little bit less than 20% of the time remaining of the three-year period. So we feel like we are on track but we can't take our foot off the the housing accelerator. We need to keep uh moving ensuring that we can move these permits uh forward. So, we've we've reached out to the development community and uh of course as part of all of our our normal um uh meetings and to be able to let them know that we're here to be able to get these uh permits across the finish line and to ensure that we will get that final payment. But uh we I will be able to provide you even more information in that report. But that's a high level update. Yeah. No, thank you. I really appreciate that high level. It sounds like we're close and that's great news. Um, the other thing is I just wanted clarity on it says uh directed to bring this back together with the midyear update report. Just wondering I'm assuming we're talking about moving faster than that. So, if I could just get an idea of when we might have some of these back. Mr. Mathers, uh, through the chair, we're uh, I want to bring a report forward to the April 14th pack meeting. it would go to pack because that's where housing accelerate goes to but we actually want to get it done very quickly and bring that back to you counselor. Okay, that's great. One last question. These are all great answers. So, thank you. This is getting better every time. Um in D when it talks about estimated cost, will that have an approximate administrative burden cost too in terms of staffing? Mr. Mathers, uh through the chair, absolutely we can provide that. the good thing about the housing accelerator program and that it allows us to to capture some of those costs for staffing unlike some other programs. So, we will be able to capture that and include it in the report for you. Okay. Thank you. I think I'm happy to support this. So, thank you. Okay. Thank you. Uh Councelor Frank, I have you next. Thank you. A couple comments and questions uh through you to staff. I'm just wondering is there a way we can guarantee that builders or developers will pass along the development charge savings and the final price to homeowners? Mr. Mathers, uh through the chair. So that is a a a bit more difficult thing to do in a program that's a rebate program. We could um ask for itemized list for that transaction, the sales transaction to show something like that. But um again, it's not that's not as robust uh as what we suggested in our initial program of having that ability to have the lean and and uh the agreement with the actual homeowner. But um there is there's ways to do it, but just not as robustly. Councelor Frank, thank you. Yes. Yeah. I'm not interested then in item uh what is it? item I and I I uh because we are unable to guarantee that the savings will be passed along to the buyer. Uh and then additionally, if we don't move along with these items, would the funding I think is about 5 million that was set aside uh still go towards the two infrastructure projects and can we spend it in enough time that we don't have to return it? Mr. Mathers, uh through the chair, absolutely. Yes. you'll be able to reallocate that funding to to the projects that are initially indicated. Councelor Frank, thank you. Yes. Uh I am open to exploring the II, the ARU incentive program. Um I do think that that is interesting and I would look forward to some feedback on that. Um but at this time I will not support the development charge rebate because there's no way to guarantee that it would be passed along to new homeowners or buyers. So, councelor Frank, are you asking for I and I I to be called separately in clause A? I think just I I looks like, sorry, I looks like it's in regards to just general reporting back. So, I I I'd like or yeah, I I I'd like to report on or vote on separately. Okay. We'll make sure that the clerk set it up that way so we can deal with that one and then we'll deal with the balance of clause A after we've pulled that one. Uh I have uh actually councelor Frank was my last speaker on the list. So councelor Truss it's your turn. Yes, I I agree in large large part with what just was what was just said. I am not going to support two. I think one is problematic because it talks about the proposed incentives. Actually, this is directed to Skyler, so maybe I'll wait for her to Okay. Um, I think one I if if I'm not going to support two, and I think one would also be a problem because it talks about the proposed incentive options. So, I'm thinking one should be voted together with two, but this is more of a procedural thing. Um, so if I could have Yeah. So I I can tell you counselor in my read of this one. So AI is not tied to II. AI actually refers to all of the incentive programs. Okay. So it's it's actually it is a standalone. So, I would I would only be um asking for a separate vote on I I um I think I'm just going to not even go through the reasons why I won't be supporting I I because I think I've done that in some detail at previous meetings unless anybody thinks it would be helpful for me to go through that again. No, no, please don't. Okay, I'll leave it at that then. I'll be voting no on I I and yes on everything else. Thank you. Thank you councelor Trussau. We have other speakers, councelor Ramen and then councelor Ferrer. Oh, sorry. Thank you and through the chair. Um, just wanted to start by uh saying uh thanks to the mayor for bringing this communication forward. Um, I was interested in seconding it to put it on the floor. Um I I am just wondering from city staff if uh how they will address those options um with respect to the rebate and if there's a way for them to address some of those potential concerns around uh that rebate being credited back on the home price uh instead of taking out the option or voting no. I'm just looking for a path to find some way that I can support it where I can see and evaluate where that money and how that money flows to the homeowner. Mr. Mathers uh through the chair. Absolutely. That would be part of the content of the report. We would outline anything that we could uh incorporate into the program that would allow for that information and uh also just uh provide you with uh any kind of alternatives that might be available as well. Counselor, thank you. So, this would go to the April 14th PE meeting and then on to council. Um, how much time would staff need to then implement something like this and what's the timeline after implementation that people would have to access the program? Mr. Mr. Matherthers uh through the chair um very uh based on what's included here above if it's uh what we want to do is actually bring bylaw with the report so that it gives you opportunity to be able to make those decisions at the peek meeting so that we could roll it out after the next council meeting because we really want to be able to hit some of those time frames to be able to get uh the funding uh rolled out and these programs rolled out. So that it will be up to council to be able to go move forward with it, but you'll have all the information you need to be able to proceed. Counselor, thank you. And through you. So, um, on I I just wondering if you can clarify for me, why do ARUs only apply to existing homes versus new builds? Like, why can't a builder that's building an ARU with a or sorry, building a home includes an ARU, why doesn't that count the same way as this does? Mr. Mathers, uh, through the chair. Sorry for the confusion there. So, it's existing homeowners. So, um if you have a home, if whether it's brand new or not, you it would apply. It was just flagging that it's not only open to people with brand new homes. It's open to everyone that has a home. So, um the in the uh the intent was to also have this applied to like a brand new home as long as it's owned by the homeowner at the time versus making that payment directly to the builder to to to create the unit. So, um, that could be something you want to consider, but it's, uh, at this point it would be open to a brand new home or to an existing home. Counselor, thank you. Uh, through you, so I'm sorry, I'm still confused. Um, so if a builder is building a new home and they have a purchase agreement from a homeowner and the purchase agreement includes that they include an ARU in the build, that's counted as two separate units. Mr. Mathers through the chair. Yes, it is. And they would be able to um in that would be able to make a claim to this program for that. The homeowner will be able to make the the claim to the program. We weren't it's really up to council wants to go with it, but the intention um wasn't necessarily to include like a builder to be able to build a spec home within unit and then sell it. The idea was that the funding would go directly to the person that's purchased the home. um whether that's a brand new home or whether that's something that's in an existing home. Thank you. Uh thank you. That's very helpful. Um so I'm interested in getting more information at this point. appreciate what we have in front of us. But I will say uh after reading the report, I was prepared to support uh an amendment today and bring an amendment forward um to allow for that 5-year window and to create um just some language around um the fact that it's the primary residency of the individual, not making it London uh that you had to own property first in London, but that you will and this will be your primary residency. I think that could take us to to the same place. So, um just wanted to put that out there. That's what I was willing to support today, but uh I will move with what's in front of us, but I think it could be complimentary to doing something else. Uh and I'll think about that in time for council. Thank you, Councelor Ramen. I have councelor Ferrer next. Thank you, Chair. Um I guess looking at C or I I uh as it is for the motion. Um I just like a technical question I guess for this one. I see that this is supposed to be implementation for interior or basement and attached ARUS. Does that not capture an ARU that may not be attached to the primary residence but on the property? Mr. Matherther? Uh through the chair. So the program the existing program already covers detached. This would add um other forms of eros to be able to be uh um allow for that grant. So we already have attached ARU grant programs. This is just to add and allow more more flexibility. Councelor, so if the ARU was not attached but it's on the property, it still applies to the program. Mr. Mathers, thank you and through the chair. So we currently offer a detached ARU grant program. Uh what is being asked of us through this direction would be to expand eligibility to that grant program to not only include the existing detached units but also interior units, expansions to existing houses, house footprints and uh basement units which we are seeing a lot of uptake on. Thank you Mr. McCauley. Councelor Ferrer, thank you for that. Um I hear what uh colleagues are saying about I and I. My question I guess for the new residential development was with the uh the financial incentive framework um from what I understand the program eligibility criteria meant that after the loan agreement and all the other agreements were set then we would be providing um the rebate to the new home purchaser after the fact after being approved by a lender after closing after all of that. Um, so I guess kind of focusing in on B, is that framework still applicable to B? Council, I just want to make sure so everybody's using the same language you're referring to. I I I looking at the mayor's I'm looking at the the added report, but it's it's I on the on the motion, Mr. Mayers. uh through the chair. Uh so the way that this would flow um from the perspective of if you did have a rebate program is that the uh the developer would not be required um or pay a reduced DC at the time that occupancy is granted for the the home. Therefore, that adjustment in price would be is part of that purchase and sale agreement. So the homeowner would buy a house that was um reduced in price by the amount of the DC amount. So there isn't any opportunity for something to happen after the fact. Um, however, that price that's that is set at the time that it's sold, that would be the what the lender would be looking at as far as uh um providing um opportunities for the person to to take out a mortgage on in the property. So it would be based on that amount and that's uh all happens before the sale occurs. Counselor, thank you. Sorry to clarify. So the the developer pays the 40% DC or reduces I guess reduces the price of the home by that 40% of the DC. But then our 60% of DC rebate that we're offering is that included in the purchase price of the home or is that still not included and then we rebate it back after the close? Mr. Mathers uh through the chair. So if if we maintain that same uh 6040 split and that's something that the builders want to to maintain as well um all that entire uh DC um payment portion would happen before the home is sold both sides of it. Counselor. Okay. So to clarify just just to make sure um the entire amount would be considered for a lending for the lending approval part. Um, so because I'm focusing on obviously the affordability part, uh, for someone who is kind of right there, but they just need maybe a little bit more leg room to get to an approval from a lender, but that will be that is seen before the agreements for the Okay. Um, so that's my only questions. I I I still I hear the concerns from the other counselors about I and I I, so I appreciate splitting it out like that. I do like I I I um and I would be interested in seeing um I guess the implementation considerations for I I or IV. Um so just a I guess a technical question here. We're not directing anything. We're just looking for a report back on more options. Correct. That's correct, counselor. Okay. Thanks. Uh, I'm going to go to councelor Mallister first. He hasn't spoken on this one. Councelor Trusso. Councelor McAllister, go ahead. Uh, thank you. Sorry, I was trying to flag somebody down over there. So, appreciate the clerk's uh, um, with that. Um, so, and through the chair, um, I like options. Um, I think we have had a number of debates like this where, um, we're not all on the same page. We are looking for, you know, a few different options. And so, I'm supportive of this just to see what things look like. I think uh there is an appetite for a program. I think we might have different opinions in terms of where that lands, but I'd like a full suite of options uh before I make any sort of decision. Um I'd also say with the rebate portion, I I guess I have a few questions with this as well, but I I question through to staff in terms of a rebate for a program like that, would we put in uh in terms of like participants to the program? like is there anything that would come from the city in terms of who is interested who is participating in it would there be any way from our side in terms of communicating to the public uh who is part of this program Mr. Mathers uh through the chair absolutely part of any of our our housing accelerator or any of our CIP programs especially if they're ones that are actually directed to the public that would we undertake a communication communication strategy we developed for each of these programs and get that word out. So um we're happy to be able to to um to do that for this effort. Um we don't necessarily provide a list of of preferred um p contractors or anything like that. So we don't get into that kind of detail but uh we're happy to like provide information for like the uh organizational sites and things like that to be able to connect people but uh absolutely we'd have a full communication plan and strategy on this councelor. Uh thank you through the chair. Appreciate that cuz I mean I hear the hesitancy from some of my colleagues in terms of having a rebate program. Um, but where I would struggle with it is, um, I have a hard time believing if developers were just taking this cash, I mean, you probably wouldn't be in business for very long, if you participate in a program like this and take those dollars. So, I think there is some reputational accountability that would go into this. Um, there is clearly an appetite for developers in the city to have something like this. So, I think there is already buy in. Um I think there obviously we we need to look at those checks and balances but I do think uh even on the surface that it would be difficult and you know reprehensible for someone to uh to take those funds and not use them as intended. Um I did have another question in terms of the community improvement plan. Uh obviously this is a report back to look at options but I'm just wondering in terms of what we currently have um on the books and whether we think that's robust enough or would we be looking to make further enhancements to the CIPs Mr. Mayers or Mr. McCauley on that one? Yeah. Uh through the chair. So at this point to be able to to have a short-term like opportunities where you wouldn't be necessarily recommending changes to our CIP program. Maybe additional financial incentives under those programs. Um, I think that is that uh there is a review process that we do on a 5-year basis and that was part of the discussion in in the recent audit related to CIPs that we will be undertaking further review moving forward. But um there isn't anything that's that's necessarily on the books, but if that is something that uh council wants to provide some directions on, that's we could do that over the coming year. Councelor, uh thank you through the chair and appreciate that in terms of the timeline and wanting to get things off the ground as quickly as possible. Um, I would just say on that point though then if we did approve something specifically with the CIPs, I would still have some sort of a bit of an ad blitz in terms of reminding people which areas have the CIPs, what's available. Uh, just to remind people and try to get that buy in as quickly as possible because I think some people are aware of it. Um, depends kind of what circles you're in, but some more than others know which areas there there are and what's available. But uh again, I think just um as anything we adopt um we really do need to to promote it as best we can to get that further buy in. So um I'm happy to support the options, see what comes back and uh we'll go from there. Thanks. Thank you, Councelor McAllister. I do have councelor Trussau for a second time. I'm going to look to see if there's any firsttime speakers before I go back to councelor Trussau for seconds. Councelor Trussau. Yes. I would like to uh through the chair just get more clarity on where this report is coming back. It says civic administration be directed to report back to council. Is is that is that right? It comes directly to council without going through a committee. Wouldn't it go through SPC first or do you really want it to go straight to council without coming to a committee? In which case, we're really not going to be able to do the kind of committee work on the report that we would need. So I would say it should say SPC and not council. Uh so actually councelor as Mr. Mathers responded earlier uh because it's housing accelerator it would go to PE on April 14th and then come to council after that meeting. Okay. Um, one other thing I would like to see in the report, um, would you be able to tell us how many through the chair, h how how many um, properties property owners would have to take up the ARU program in order to exhaust the funds that are left in the account with without anything else because I I would want to know whether that's a reasonably uh, foreseeable goal to have. Mr. Mathers, uh, through the chair, absolutely. We um you we always want to provide an estimate of how much funding is available for each of the programs and how much how many units you're going to get out of it. So we will provide that related to each of these programs. Okay. I'm going to go uh and ask councelor Ramen to take the chair uh quickly. I'm just going to offer some hopefully very brief comments. Thank you. I have the chair. Go ahead. Thank you. So, uh, I'm just going to share, uh, right off the top that I'm going to support all of this today because it's a report back with some options for us to consider, um, on I I the DC rebate piece. Um, I still in something that comes back. I still want to see a primary residence requirement. I'm not interested in DC rebates for somebody to buy a rental property. As was referenced by Mr. Zafman, we put a lot of effort into rentals through the half. Um, if you want to exercise uh an opportunity to use this program for a home purchase, I expect you to live there. That's as simple as it is for me. Uh, so when this comes back, uh, if I I passes, um, I won't be supportive of it unless the primary residency requirement is in there. Um, I do share some of Councelor Frank's concerns about how we make sure the money gets to where it's going, but I also agree with Councelor McAllister. Um, we've got some pretty reputable builders who are putting their reputation on the line here. Um, and as Mr. Mayather said, there are some tools that they can um, indicate to us in their report back as to how that accountability might be tracked. Um, however, I I do appreciate while the half money allows for some administrative costs. I hope that we can find a way to do that that's not overly administratively burdensome either. Um on the ARUS, uh I think the interior basement component is important. Um I I really do I think that basement conversions in particular have been very uh have been a lot of interest to folks and the fact that they haven't necessarily been able to access some financial supports to to undertake those costs um has impacted how much the uptake has been. Um so that's where I am. I just wanted to share for today I'm going to be supportive uh across the board but when it comes back to us uh AI I really need to see a primary residency requirement um and I need to understand where the accountability piece is cuz I don't believe our local builders are going to take the money and run. Um, but we do have people who sometimes build who are not from the community, who we don't have as much experience with and and I do think that there needs to be from an accountability side an ability for us to say to the public, yes, these homes were in fact sold for less because we put money in the pot. Uh, I do hope that if the DC charges rebate comes back in a workable form, um, that the industry would still be interested in being a partner and putting some of their own funds in to make that money go as far as it possibly can cuz I know they had I think it was 3 million that they were offering to put in uh on the table to to help make that program more robust. Uh, and when the sector's willing to put in some of their own cash, I I hope we can still utilize that. Uh, you know, I hear some of the comments that they've offered us today. Uh, I hope we can find a way forward to work together. Thank you. Returning the chair to councelor Ferrer on the list. Thank you. So, I go to councelor Ferrer and I've got you at 2 uh 20. So, you've got about 240 left. Uh, thanks. It's just a technical question. I did hear that this is going to be going to PEC um because of the housing accelerator fund um money. I I just I want some clarification on why this is here at SPPC and the next one is going to PC. And I would suggest that this should come to SPC rather than pack. So I can tell you that it's here today because it originated from a mayoral direction and the committee assignments were all mayoral directions come to SPC to start. Um but this no longer if we pass this it's no longer the mayoral direction that was provided. uh it's different now and so it would go to the normal half committee which is PEC if that's helpful in terms of why it's here today but would go to someplace else different uh I guess it is um it still did originate from Mariel direction and we seem to all have some stake in this and we may be putting it to peek and then have this full conversation again at council um and you know I'd like to do committee work at committee and to just you know as council has some interest in some areas like I obviously have interest in the or the ARU component because I see that it gives affordability for uh an existing homeowner that may want to make an ARU and it also provides new units and it is using the existing housing stock. So, I like that. Um, but I I would suggest if we can to send it to SPC to have that wholesome conversation with all of council before it goes to council. Okay. Sorry, I had to converse with the clerk there for a moment. Um, and I am before I go any further, I'm going to go to Mr. Mayers um just so that he can clarify why his recommendation on this is that it's coming to pack and then I'll come back to you councelor Ferrer. Um Mr. Mathers um can you just expand on why you were planning for the April 14th PE uh through the chair. So, historically, we've had an a number of conversations back and forth with uh with our the the city clerk and uh the the assessment has been that because it's uh even though there's a funding component of it that and it's it's primarily housing related. So, we've been directing all of our uh update reports um related to housing accelerator fund to pack. Um so, that's the rationale of why we've been going to PEC. Okay. So, now I'm going to go back to councelor Ferrer. Because this is your second time speaking, you actually can't move an amendment. Now, there are a couple of counselors who haven't spoken. If they wanted to move an amendment, they could do so. Um, you can move an amendment to bring it to PEC. Oh, sorry. And I've got councelor Ploza on the speakers list next. Councelor Pelosi, I want to let you know that we got your hand up there. So, um, sorry. Yes, you. So, you could amend it to SPC and then it would be up to this committee to decide whether it wants it to come here or whether it wants it to go to PEC. Um the next PE meeting as Mr. Mayers has indicated is April 14th. Um the next SPPC is April 21st. Thanks chair. Uh the next SPPC I believe we have the downtown. No, that's the one after two after. Okay. Well, I can't move an amendment as it is my second time speaking. Um but yeah, those are my comments. if uh another counselor would like to move the amendment and I guess I could do it at at council. Councelor Pelosa. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As it's my first time speaking procedurally, if the clerk does not deem it out of order, I would make a motion that the report come to the April 21st SPC meeting. Realizing we have, from what I've heard, very divided ideas about what portions we'd like and not know what the staff report is going to contain, trying to do committee at business at committee. Uh so I don't if there's a seconder but I'm moving a amendment. Okay. So uh hear your amendment. Councelor Cloa. Councelor Hopkins has indicated she'll second that for you. So now it's on the floor and we'll just give the clerk a moment to get it written up. Um to move it from uh planning committee to SPC. Uh once that's ready, well, is there any discussion on this or are we okay to just vote? Councelor Ferrer, councelor Councelor Hopkins, you seconded it. So, I'm going to go to you first. Yeah, I'm happy to second this. I think we're all very interested in this. Uh SBPC committee of the whole will all be there. If not, um the PE committee will uh we'll all have to attend there and then rehash the whole conversation at council. So hoping we could do uh better committee work at at the right committee. Councelor Ferrer. I support that. Thank you. Any other speakers are on the amendment or can we open the vote? Seeing none, I will ask the clerk to open the vote. Council approval. Yes. Closing the vote. Motion carries 10 to 4. Okay. So, now we're back to the main motion. Uh, and it's uh all we've done is change where it's going to report back to. Um, I'm not going to deem that substantively different. So you don't get an additional five minutes on the as amended. We've made a very minor change in terms of which committee it's reporting to. So with that, I'm looking for any other speakers on the main motion. Okay, seeing none, we're going to vote on a I I first cuz councelor Frank wanted that called separately. Then we will do the balance. Council Prible votes yes for entire 4.2. Thank you. Well, councelor, we're calling two separate votes. So, you have you can only vote on a II, but the clerk's recorded the yes on that. Closing the vote. Motion carries 10 to 4. Okay. And I will now ask the clerk to open the vote on the balance. Council apply. Yes. Closing the vote. Motion carries 13 to 1. Thank you colleagues. That dispenses with item 4.2. This will bring us to item 4.3. This is a re request for special intergovernmental meeting uh put on the agenda by councelor McAllister. So I will go to councelor Mallister now. Uh if you'd like to introduce this. Uh yeah. Um I'd like to introduce my motion. Uh I provided the wording. Um I won't speak to it. I'll look for my seconder and then I'll speak to it uh if it gets seconded. So you do have a seconder and councelor Van Mirburgen. He already indicated to me that he's happy to second your motion. So it is moved and seconded. Perfect. Uh thank you. And through the chair. Um yeah, I I feel like um it's appropriate at this time to to bring something like this forward. Um I spent the last few years um attending uh you know the different uh AMO FCM good roads um um participating in those delegations. I still think there's a lot of value in those in terms of direct lobbying. Uh I think those organizations do good work. Um but I really do think um we need to have a public forum where we can bring um provincial and federal uh local representatives uh here. Uh I understand this used to be a thing a few years ago. Um I think I wasn't around but I think uh everyone may have their opinions in terms of the value of something like this. I just want to personally speak in terms of why I'm bringing it forward and where I see there being value. Uh and I'm curious u what everyone has to to say about it. Open to amendments if people want to do things differently with it. Um but really where I see the value um is in terms of having that greater coordination and that communication directly with them in a public setting. Um what I've uh heard and seen over the last few years is um we do have these conversations um I think they're unfortunately sometimes a bit disjointed in terms of um setting those priorities early with our provincial and federal partners and saying this is something that we've seen at the city level uh and we're looking for your support and for them to be able to take those back to whether it's uh Toronto or Ottawa uh and move those conversations forward. Um, as we've said many times here before, we can't do everything on our own and we need those partners to support us. Uh, I think it's important. I I suggested a bianual because my uh thinking behind this was um to have these conversations uh earlier in a year before the budget session. So those pre-budget conversations could happen. Uh and then at the end of the year um to have some followup in terms of how those conversations went um where the provincial and federal governments are in terms of conversations or any sort of programs that might be rolled out um just to have this um discussion amongst um the the representatives. This is the political side. I think we have a lot of conversations um more uh in terms of you know other things. uh I would I don't want to say behind the scenes, but that I I think that this is an appropriate forum that's public where politicians can discuss these things um more openly. Um and so I see a lot of value in something like this. Curious what others have to to say on it. Um you know, I I've heard already suggestions in terms of maybe just have it once a year, which I think is what it was previously. Um do you want um all um representatives? Do you just want city government? Um there's a lot of different directions you could take this in. Um but I still think um we need to have these come back. I think there's a lot of value uh in terms of that coordination. There are a lot of issues facing the city, the province, the country and I do think we need to have alignment in terms of where we're going with things and I think it would be uh providing clarity not only for ourselves but for staff as well in terms of where the priorities of uh the governments lie. So happy to see where this goes. Um but uh I think this is um you know something we should really contemplate. So I'll leave it there and see what my colleagues have to say. Thanks. Thank you councelor Mallister. I have councelor Van Mirburgen. Councelor Ramen and then councelor Trussile. Councelor Van Mirburgen. Oh and councelor Hopkins. Thank you uh chair. Uh happy to second this. Um this was practiced on a very regular basis in previous councils. In fact um thank you for this uh for this motion because it reminds us that uh yes we used to do this all the time uh and they were very productive and I think it was co that got us off track. Uh but I think it's time to uh bring this back again. Uh it it's very useful. Opens up the lines of communication. Um streamlines the flow of information and new ideas. Uh it's win-win. So uh th this to me is a no-brainer. Let's let's um endorse this if we feel that um two times a year is too much. It can always be changed at a later date. I recall it was two times a year when we did it previously. uh Mayor Diko uh practiced that along with Mayor Fontana. Um and I I think it went up right through to Mayor Holder, but then stop with uh with CO. So um I'm 100% behind this and u thank you again for bringing this forward. Well, thank you uh councelor Van Miran. Although I can assure you um it did not end with Mayor Holder or CO. It has been more than a decade since one of those intergovernmental meetings has been held. Um, we checked with the clerk's office. So, well, I guess it's it's been a while. It's been a while. Um, however, uh, we've got councelor Hopkins next and then councelor Ramen and then councelor Trussau. Councelor Hopkins. Uh, yeah, thank you for that and thank you um, councelor Van Mirburg and for your comments since you were around longer than I've been around. I do recall we did this with the Brown Council uh which was the um council before um Holders Council but I am supportive and if I recall back then uh you know I I I think doing a twice a year may be a little bit more challenging with scheduling. I think it's important that all MPs and MPPPS be attend. If we don't have a full house, it may not um be as effective. I do did find sometimes it was more performative than really seeing the outcomes, but I think it's a great opportunity uh to communicate and and share uh concerns uh with our MPs and MPPPS. So, um yeah, I'll support it. and councelor Ramen. Uh, thank you and through you. So, I want to start first by thanking councelor Mallister for the communication. Um, however, I'd like to move a referral of this item. Um, so the communication that's dated March 9th from councelor Mallister with respect to this special intergovernmental meeting to refer it to a future meeting of GWG for further discussion. and then if I have a second or I'd like to speak to it. Okay. Um Okay, Council Truss, I was willing to second that. Councelor Ramen, go ahead. Thank you. Um so I fully respect and understand the premise of the communication that's in front of us. Um however I would want to ensure that a meeting with other members of government um is more than performative and for that to happen I need the opportunity to have a discussion in GWG to structure the conversation more um to set those parameters around how that uh that relationship and and what that communication looks like. um sharing my own experience. Um we did this at Temp's Valley District School Board and uh I don't want to be too harsh and say exercise of futility. Um I just found it very challenging in terms of uh st having that kind of a conversation without some more guard rails in place around how we're going to uh put those priorities forward and make sure that we're talking about things where there's an opportunity for those in government, maybe those in opposition and and everyone to partake in a discussion that's helpful for the community to understand where our position aligns and maybe where, you know, partisan positions may separate but how we're rowing in the same direction for team London as well. So I think that having a bit more structure would be helpful. Um so I would like to refer that to GWG a future meeting for a future discussion. Uh I've got councelor Trussau and then councelor Ferrer. Councelor Trussau. Well I was going to speak to the main motion but I'll speak to both of them if I if I can. Yeah I think a discussion at GWC is fine. It shouldn't it shouldn't take well no cancel that a discussion at GWC would be fine. Um the the reason why I was going to vote against this was I I was going to ask the question is there anything to stop us from if if say for example the provincial budget is coming up is there anything to stop us from asking provincial members of of parliament to come to a SPC meeting as it is now. Uh, so I think that, uh, I'm going to go to see if Miss Needers Bear wants to comment. Um, I will say I think that that's part of the reason for the referral counselor is to sort some of these things out at GWG before we get a motion. But, Miss Sters Bear, with respect to timing of provincial budgets, federal budgets, and inviting someone to attend, is there from a from an intergovernmental relations perspective. Um perhaps if you can comment on that. Absolutely. Thank you. Um I think it's been mentioned already through you that um some of these sort of these meetings require a lot of time to set up because of schedules and so um I I think if the question is could we have them come before budgets? Yes. Um I'm not sure that's exactly the question you asked though counselor. My apologies if I've missed exactly what you're asking. Council, the question specifically to the chair is without this motion, is there anything to stop us from inviting MPs or MPPPS to particular meetings? Mers bear through the chair. No, there isn't. I I think um it would take the direction of council to staff to ensure that we have council's direction to ask MPPPS and MPs to come to a meeting of full counsel. But if you were having meetings on your own, there's nothing that prohibits you from having that discussion as well directly with with elected officials. I hope I got that right. I think any further comments would go to the main motion which I'll which I'll defer from taking your time with pending the resolution of the amendment. Okay. So we're on the amendment. Councelor Ferrer or sorry on the referral not the amendment but councelor Ferrer and then Cuddy and Mallister. Thank you chair. Uh this because it's a referral. This is the main motion or are we speaking to a main? No, we're just speaking to the referral. Okay. Uh so I appreciate the motion. I appreciate the referral as well. I will be supporting the referral. Um I I do want to get more information on I guess why uh these meetings were stopped in the past. I'm not going to ask staff now. Um but if we could if we could have that discussion at GWG. I'd also like to see uh what our government relations team would have to say about it. Um because I do understand that this is an area of government relations as well. Obviously I I want to be avoiding any anything that could be performative or anything that may not um lead us to a productive conversation. Uh but it is something that interests me. Um but I will be supporting the referral. Um and I guess I'll leave the comments there. And councelor Miss Ders bear. I I'm happy to respond for you chair. Um in the past it's my understanding and I was here when it happened before that there was a decision uh to engage in a discussion of having them come to uh having them come to a meeting. Uh, and I'm not sure if that was sparked by the sitting mayor at the time or if there was just general agreement that they would come and and they partnered with our GR staff to have them come, but it was done as part of a regular I think corporate services committee meeting or SPC committee. I can't remember the clerk can clarify that, but it was it was about we wanted to have this. It was part of a process. I think the reason they if they stopped um formally in the council chambers was because of CO um or because there wasn't a desire to do that at that point in time um but not for any other reason other than they just haven't happened again. Councelor, thank you. Um, okay. I'm just uh I heard it's being stopped before CO from two from the city manager and from uh councelor Van Mirburgen and then I heard it was stopped 10 years ago. So, I'm not going to ask the the question further. Maybe we can, you know, get it clarif okay. Well, I'm going to support the referral. I think it's uh it should go to GWG. Um I'd like to see government relations there to speak on it, too. And um and I'll leave it there. Uh thank you councelor and and again just cuz I didn't provide the year but according to the clerks the last one was in 2016. Uh councelor Cuddy. Thank you chair and through and I do appreciate um council Mallister bring this forward and and uh councelor Van Mirber in seconding and I I uh I would look forward to this although I am going to resp uh I'm going to respectfully support the referral. um by council ramen and and I want to reference council ramen's remarks that at TVSB we did this and also to your comments um it it needs it was challenging and and the guard rails are important so I do believe we should bring this to u governor's or to the governor's working group and uh I'll support the um the referral thank you councelor McAllister uh thank you to the chair and I'm honestly happy to support the referral I totally understand where people are coming from Um I just want to kind of provide in terms of where I was thinking. I mean governance made uh governance working group makes total sense to me. Um where my um mind was at with this was what we would try to do in terms of having those guard rails in place is have a a governance meeting prior to calling one of these meetings to set the agenda in terms of the items that we wanted to discuss to keep it tight because my intention is also not to throw everything at higher levels of government in terms of every issue under the sun. It was to keep it tight in terms of say we have a you know a priority in terms of housing and we were like we would like to specifically talk about this program. This is something we want to have um to keep it tight to ensure that not only we're prepared our staff are able to provide briefings as we would with any other sort of say delegation. Um but then also to give them the chance to know prior to what they would be discussing at the meeting to ensure that they know as well that this is not an open forum for um you know just having another um House of Commons or Queens Park like this is not the way it's going to go. It's also there will be controls in terms of we have our procedures. I'm sure they they would be aware of that too. But um to ensure that everyone coming into the meeting uh understands what's uh involved I think is very important. So, I'm perfectly willing to support the referral um flesh out some of this um but also recognizing that I did not intend for this to be uh open season on every issue uh under the sun. So, uh appreciate the discussion. Uh I still think there's a lot of value in this and I look forward to discussion at uh governance. So, thank you. Thank you, Councelor McCallister. Mayor Morgan. Uh thank you. So, uh I'll support the referral. Um and I'll explain why. Um I I think some thoughtful some thoughtful dialogue on this is probably pretty important and council Mallister mentioned a number of points and so first off I I appreciate and I think the desire to do this is uh makes a lot of sense. You want to engage uh as governmentto representatives uh in a forum that is open and and with the public. Now I'll say that will create some restrictions and some risks to it. Right? When you when you put members of government, members of opposition in the same spot at the same time. Um there's a system of parliamentary government where um the opposition opposes the government. It provides different perspectives and they engage in a different type of you know debate than we engage with at municipal council. And so there's there's inherent you know some inherent risk to um setting up a constructive discussion that is more than performative. And as having been a part of some of these in the past, I would say there's been points where there has been some productive discussion, there's been points where um I think it's been less productive and and pretty performative and pretty high level and and and we really achieved the real GR work in you know the onetoone dialogues that that we had. I want to say too um for any of our MPs or MPPPS who may be catching wind of this discussion you know uh irrespective of where this goes and what we set up I think we do have a really great productive relationship with all of them I I think you know we've had minister flax sitting on our side of the table at delegations at AMO we've had opposition members raising issues of importance to members of the community we've engaged with uh government members from all different levels and we've had at times a team of people representing different parties saying I represent London in part when I go in and in in into the cabinet room or with my party caucus uh and I'm fighting for this area of the province. So, you know, I certainly think we have great representatives and I think we have uh we have uh you know, a partnership that's working very well. Uh but I do appreciate the the desire to evolve that and and use a different forum to engage with them. And so I'll support the referral to government's working group. Um, but I wanted to be clear that I support that for the discussion. I I also think we have a very constructive relationship with all of our uh existing um uh representatives uh and I think they work with us well uh from a variety of different perspectives. Thank you, Mayor Morgan. Um since Councelor Ramen has a motion on the floor, I'm going to ask you to take the chair so that I can offer a comment. All right, I have the chair. You can go ahead. Uh thank you. So I too am going to support the referral because I think this needs some more conversation before we pri provide some direction to our administration. Um councelor McAllister mentioned it uh the bianual basis. Um that's a that's something I want to discuss at GWG. That's why I'm going to support the referral cuz I've been part of these as an MP staffer. Uh, I can tell you that there were times when it took us 3 weeks to find a date that worked 3 months from now to get all four MPs together in the same room. Scheduling these is not going to be easy and I don't think that you know personally the reason I want to support the referral is I want to discuss just doing it annually but perhaps we do one with MPs and one with MPPPS something like that but that's part of the reason I want to do a referral so we can have that discussion at governance working group um I also have some concerns cuz I was lucky to be part of what all of us as staff kind of joked of as the golden age for London because we had uh some MPs that really were able to leave Ottawa and Ottawa and be Londoners when they were here in front of council in and we had representatives from each party cuz we had the former minister of science and technology as he likes to remind us uh in MP Holder and we had MP Irene Mat and we had MP Glenn Pearson. Um and they brought and we had MP Joe Preston and they brought a collegial London area approach when they came here. they left the Ottabba stuff in Ottawa, but that's a personality mix from four MPs who are able to do that. Um, so I also wanted to have it at GWG for us to have some discussions. Um, because you're suggesting that we add this as an SPPC, which means I'm going to have to chair this. Um, and I want you all to help create some guide rails so that I can rule tough with the MPs and MPPPS and cut off their mics and tell them they're out of order. uh if they behave the way that they behave in question period. So I think that's why this needs to go to GWG so we can figure out exactly what this looks like before we we move forward um with trying to set up a meeting. Um and for those who might be listening or their staff who might be listening uh I I know we'll be asking extra work and time commitments of you as well, but you are representatives of the city, not just your parties, but the city of London. And so I I hope you'll welcome the chance to have a dialogue with us um if we are are able to figure out a way to make this a reality moving forward. So going to support the referral. Thank you for the the motion coming forward, Councelor McCallister, and uh looking forward I think sounds like there's some consensus. So I think looking forward to some discussion at GWG about how this gets structured. Uh thank you. I'll return the chair to you. I don't have anyone else on the speaker's list at this time. Anyone else on the referral? Seeing none in chambers or online, I will ask clerk to open the vote. Council approval of votes yes. Closing the vote. Motion carries 14 to zero. Okay colleagues that completes items for direction and brings us to deferred matters additional business. Uh we have item 5.1 the added from mayor Morgan myself and budget chair Pelosa and then we have the item that was pulled from consent to deal with. Uh so we will deal first with the item 5.1 as it's on the agenda. Then we will move to 2.3 from the consent agenda and then I will remind colleagues we still have closed session. Uh so um as I'm chairing uh I'm going to see if Mayor Morgan wants to introduce uh the uh motion on the communication. Sure. I'm willing to put it um put it on the floor and uh look for the seconder, which I assume you'll do. I see councelor Pelosa uh willing to second. So that's been moved and seconded and is on the floor now for discussion. Sure. I I'll kick it off and I appreciate councelor Ploza um uh both being on the correspondence and seconding it and I'll I'll u save some room for her for discussion. Um the uh you know the the the concept here is um having done this a few times as an elected official um getting elected uh especially if you're new counselor and then having to go through a very substantive assessment of the applications in some cases the desire for interviews and the assessment of how many people should be appointed to what boards and commissions across the city. some of them locked into a 4-year period is a fairly daunting um task uh at a single point in time where you don't might not have all the information you'd like. and h being able to um put some distance between the election and uh and doing that uh would provide council some more thoughtful time to get settled into the position uh to get to know each other as a group uh and then make a collective decision on who should lead the boards and commissions. And so extending the terms for a period of time for the the public appointed members uh would allow us the time to do that and not have to deal with that as the first thing. I I remember my first time I got elected to council, there was 11 new members of council and we were up to 2:00 in the morning making these appointments on like our second meeting or our first meeting and it just didn't feel like a great way to make decisions. Now, we've gotten the process a little better over time, but it still is a fairly significant and intense process at a time where we're trying to establish our own collective um perspective as a council where we're trying to get a know to know each other and what we've all just campaigned on and promised and try to sort through that and appoint members of boards and commissions. So, um this is a a thoughtful approach to say we've got great people serving on these. Let's see if they're willing to have their terms extended through this motion. Um, you know, if people want to resign, we can always do the um, you know, the the interimm process. But for the most part, I think many of them would be happy to continue to serve. Um, I I think we should probably deal with the council appointments when the new council's here cuz there may not be the same people around the table given some people aren't aren't running and there's a whole election process. But uh but for the citizen appointments, I think we can put some distance between that and that that's essentially, you know, the concept uh that we would be looking at. And so this direction says let's do that, but we've got to bring forward the amendments, the applicable policies and bylaws. We be making the actual decision on that when the amendments come forward and you can see what it actually looks like. So appreciate uh uh my other colleagues desire to put this on the floor for your consideration and looking forward to your thoughts. And I'll go next. Councelor PLA. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, with this one, too, it was I know the mayor said he's going to leave some space for comments for me, but I don't not much he left. Um, so just being brief on this that we start our new roles on council and right away we get our appointments to standing committees. I know I was um guilty of being a chronic hand raiser when there was opportunity to be filled, happy to fill it. Um and sometimes it was just the overcommitment when we're still trying to as new colleagues learn a job and what's required. Um this would also give some opportunities for that ability to go and see the boards in process and what is happening there. Um understand their needs a bit better, maybe attend some of their meetings and really look at the relationship with the ABCs and how they integrate with the city and the business and our various plans. So looking for support on this just came forward as a counselor myself at who was new a couple terms back and just a way to make the transition of a higher quality and a little bit easier. Thank you councelor Pelosa. Looking for other speakers. Okay, I see no other speakers, so I'm going to ask the clerk to open the vote. Yes. For council approval. Closing the vote. Motion carries 14 to zero. Okay, colleagues, that brings us to the other deferred item, which is 2.3 uh from our consent agenda. That's the first report of the governance working group. And councelor Stevenson, you asked for this one to be pulled, so I will go to you first. I did. Thank you. I moved and a motion passed at the end of governance working group and I had the wrong date of the council meeting so it was ruled out of order at the last minute. I just wanted to bring it forward again now. Okay. Oh, so it just says uh if I can just do you want me to read it out or just say the gist of it? Yeah, if you can read it out for me. uh that with respect to the MNP London Housing Development Project lessons learned review report, civic administration be directed to provide council with the uh with last year's tenant placement policies via email by April 15th, 2026. Okay. And second by councelor Trussau. Hold on. The clerk's just checking to make sure we got the right dates. Okay. And so that's that's in order. That's fine. Uh I just want to make sure uh that you and Council Truss out are are moving the rest of the GWG like the piece from consent with this. I'm good with that. Seeing nods from both of you. So um the clerk will just draft it up that way. Okay, looking to see if there's speakers. Councelor Stevens, I'll just explain quickly for those who weren't at Governance Working Group. This item has already been approved and um it's on the deferred items list to have a full complete list go to governance working group for discussion. I'm just needing some of that information for something I'm working on. So, I'm just asking uh for it to be emailed to council. I took out the full list so that it doesn't have to be exhaustive. Hopefully um you know it's an easy thing for staff to just forward to me so that I can get going on that knowing that governance working group might not happen till June. There should be no work involved or anything. I'm just asking for last year's policies. Yeah. And it would be to all of council, not just to you. That's what I thought. That's it. Okay, looking for any other speakers. Councelor Ramen, thank you. And through you, I just wanted to uh through you to staff confirm that this is something that could be done in that time timeline. Mr. Dickens. Uh thank you. And through you, chair. Um if it's not a staff report, yes, we can send the email by April 15th. I'll confirm with my team that that's not an issue. Councelor, thank you. Seeing no one else on the speakers list, I will ask the clerk to open the vote. Traso votes yes. So appler votes yes. So marking counselors Ferrer and Hillier as absent. Just marking counselor Hillier as absent. Closing the vote. Motion carries 13 to zero. Thank you colleagues. That concludes our deferred matters additional business uh portion of the meeting. That moves us on to confidential session. So I'm going to need a motion to move in camera. Councelor Mallister and councelor Cuy and we'll ask the clerk to open the vote on that. Traso votes yes. Herb votes yes. for me. Go into close session. Closing the vote. Motion carries 13 to zero. Thank you, colleagues. So, please counselors, please don't leave. We're going to get right into close session. Okay, colleagues, we are back in public session and I will look to the vice chair to report out on the items for which we went in camera. Thank you. I'm happy to report that progress was made for the items of which we went on in camera. I'm also happy to report that it was the mayor's birthday yesterday. Happy birthday, Mayor Morgan. And there are donuts and cookies to celebrate in the lounge. And uh with the announcement of donuts and cookies for the mayor's birthday uh awaiting. Do we have a motion to adjurnn? Moved by councilors Mallister and Stevenson. And by hand, all those in favor? Motion carries.

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