Transcript - Property Strategy Review Approved - School Board Properties Sub-Committee

Property Strategy Review Approved - School Board Properties Sub-Committee - March 9, 2026

Sound check 1 2 3. Sound check. 1 2 Good morning. This is the meeting of the school board property subcommittee. I am the chair. My name is Mark Tatison. As we have quorum present for today's meeting, I'd like to call this meeting of the schoolboard property subcommittee to order. In the chambers, we have myself, councelor Bey, councelor M. Wilson and online we have councelor Cretch. Welcome to all. A reminder that all electronic devices are to be switched to a non-audible function during committee meetings. The approval of the agenda. May I have a mover and seconder to approve the agenda as presented? Mover bey. Thank you. Are there any amendments from the committee members to the agenda? Not seeing any. Is there. Is there anyone opposed? Not seeing any. That's carried unanimously. Declarations of interest. Are there any declarations of interest? Not seeing any. Thank you. On to approval of the minutes from a previous meeting. That meeting took place June 22nd, 2020. May may I have a mover and a seconder to adopt the minutes as presented? Councelor M. Wilson. Thank you. Councelor Bey seconder. Any discussion on those minutes? Not seeing any. Anyone opposed? Not seeing any. That's carried. Items for consideration. 8.1 PEED26081 Hamilton Wentworth District School Board property at 1346 concession for West Flamro W13. May I have a mover and seconder to put the report on the floor? Councelor Bey, thank you. And councelor Cretch, thank you. Is there any discussion? Councelor M. Oh, did I get Thank you. Thank you, Chair Tatter. If I could just ask staff for a quick overview of the the um the principles that are referenced in the report of 2004, the portfolio management um policy. I'm I'm just not familiar with it and a slight overview would would be helpful to for me. Thank you. Thank you. Through the chair, Leah McNamera, manager, strategy and portfolio planning in the corporate real estate office. So, the uh the policy that's referenced um has a series of principles related to property acquisition, disposition, and leaseold interests that uh guides staff decision around the ability to meet uh public service delivery and uh those municipal requirements. Thank you. Are you able to um identify those through the chair? I don't have it in front of me, but there is quite a lengthy series of guidelines that are available in the uh in the strategy document. Um as part of that, it does outline the requirement for circulation of property to gather all relevant interest and information from city groups. Um so through that it does require that city groups flag any sort of interest in a property for potential acquisition or disposition. Um and with that there is requirement for um identification of what uh municipal service programs will be supported by the acquisition or disposition as well as approved budget um and approved council direction that aligns with that program. Okay. Thank you. So through the chair then could you just um walk me through uh the the process that's used? So if I understood what you've just said this this matrix um you you circulate an identified property to all um city divisions. It's assessed accordance in accordance with their um sorry is it assessed in accord according to their priorities and directives that they're presently under and then how does the portfolio management policy work against that and then what happens after that through the chair. Thank you through the chair. So, it is circulated to all city divisions over a 30-day period, which allows them the opportunity to assess the potential acquisition in this case as it aligns or potentially aligns with their program delivery. So, if they do identify an interest in the property, uh they would then be required to submit a business case to the portfolio management committee and that requires them to identify what the program is that would be supported by the property acquisition as well as the associated council direction. So, for example, is it identified in their master plan as well as do they have approved budget that aligns with the delivery of this program? Thank you. I think one last question for me. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sure you've said this. I just am learning. Uh who is the portfolio management committee through the chair? Thank you. Through the chair. The portfolio management committee is an internal committee of staff made up of director level membership across all departments. Okay. And through the chair, when is the last time that committee does it meet frequently? Is it got a um a formal schedule? Through the chair. Through the chair, it meets monthly. Monthly. Okay, great. um at the appropriate time. I I think I would appreciate um chair a review of of that uh policy um and it's um how we might assess it according to the existing council priorities and the housing sustainability and investment road map. Thank you. So, councelor Wilson, are you suggesting that the appropriate time is today? or at a later date. Um, I would appre appreciate today, but I'm also mindful that um some of my colleagues may have additional questions uh that may I don't know um call this potential motion um to be um irrelevant. I'm not sure. Thank you, Councelor Bey. Thank you, Chairu. Um, I think I'm probably going down the same path as councelor M. Wilson in terms of uh I think I'm more interested in some kind of a review of the portfolio management strategy just from the fact that it's now a 22-year-old strategy and perhaps the city's thought process when it comes to some of this has evolved changed and I think that it would be appropriate for uh some kind of a review in a in a modern context as it pertains to the recommendation that's before us. Um, I'm inclined to agree with the staff recommendation. Uh, this is a property that that is well outside of the urban boundary. It is aged. Um, it wouldn't have any practical function from my purview for any of the city's current priorities given its uh inability uh to be properly serviced or any of those uh things that would make this viable for some of our our strategic goals. Um, so I I'll be voting in favor of the support of the the um recommendation as presented, but also uh very curious to see how we may maybe get a refresh on the strategy as a whole. And we'll we'll look to to yourself, chair, or the guidance of clerks to see how we might uh bring that forward for um some kind of a a review process. Thank you, councelor Bey, Councelor Kretch. Any questions? Okay, thanks. Um, I have a question, so I'll pass it to my appointed uh vice chair, M. Wilson. Um, question is, when there's this monthly review uh of directors, would anyone from the housing secretariat sit on this and take part through the chair? Yes, the director of the housing secretariat is a member. Okay. So for me that kind of helps me understand that that is being reviewed with the with that lens. Um which is our concern I think. Is that correct counselor chair? I think that's one of them. I I sorry I don't have the floors. Okay. So um yeah I I I guess um in the interest of No, I'll just uh I'll leave it there. That that for me answered the question that I needed. But I'm I'm uh sensing that there's some other avenues that I'm not uh aware of. So I'll just uh take the chair back now and we'll um seek to move I guess things in the direction that uh and Wilson and Councelor Bey want to do. Okay. So thank you. Anything? Um I guess if if we're going to adopt the Sorry. So, if we're going to adopt this report on the floor and we've had our discussion, at what point, clerk, would we make a new motion? So, through the chair, you could um either make an amendment to the report that's on the floor to include that recommendation or you could wait until motions and u move a motion at that time because it is relevant um to the agenda. Okay. So, I think what we'll do then is um I think what we'll do is we'll move this um the report on the floor and then we'll move to the motions and then we'll discuss at that time where it can be ascertained what it is we'd like to do exactly. Okay. So, I guess I'll have councelor Bey and Councelor M. Wilson as movers and seconders. Um and I guess we're going to have to have an electronic vote now. As always, the first one takes a bit of time. I see it loading. Vote is up different. I am in favor. It is showing a weird thing. Okay, that passes four to nothing. We're moving on to motions. Councelor M. Wilson had some suggestions of a I guess a refresh of the strategy. How do we word that? You have the floor, councelor M. Wilson. Thank you, Chair. Um I I appreciated your question. Not surprised by it that the housing secretary would be at the table. Um but I think the motion might be and I'll look to the person on my my colleague on my my left. um that staff be requested to report back with the portfolio management strategy of 200 four or six. Thank you. Um with uh any assessment of how that strategy may be further informed uh by uh council priorities. Yeah, I think that would be general enough, but and possibly um the current structure of our of our departments and the I guess in adding to I guess we'll we'll wait to see what it says. Go ahead. Okay, go ahead. Sorry through the chair. If I can just add a little bit more information with regards to that plan. Um certainly if if if that's the will of of committee and council to um to report back on on on that plan, we certainly will do that. Um just to set a little bit of framework and and maybe it would be valuable if we sent you a copy of the plan. It's public. It was adopted by council way back at at at the time. Um it's fairly high level. So it it's not as prescriptive as you might believe in terms of call it criteria. It uh sets more of a framework with regards to how the city goes about assessing it. So it establishes that notion of the portfolio management committee which is director level from across all the departments and and uh which I I think there's about 10 of us um and it really prescribes the notion of uh a circulation of all the properties um to the entirety of the city as well as some of its agencies. some cases we actually circulate to the conservation authority and some of the utilities etc. Um and and then it it says hey these need to be assessed against the city's priorities the city's um capital budgets and plans and strategic plans etc. It doesn't say here's what it is today. It says whatever it is at the time, use those as the guide for determining whether or not an acquisition in this particular case um is u is needed or not. And so you bring a bunch of directors together to to actually then debate and discuss that sort of thing before it moves on to the next stage which would be to bring forward reports to uh to committee and council in in the case of affordable housing. um any reports that come out of there or recommendations that have an afford an affordable housing or sorry a housing related component to it um would then go off to the HSIR steering committee and and before it comes back as a report to council. So it's not um like I said it's not quite as prescriptive as you might think in terms of saying hey here's priorities. It's more so to say whatever the priorities are, they need to be part of the assessment process. And so if you look at say our business cases or business cases um that are required um by departments who um would recommend the acquisition of a property in this particular case are are pretty comprehensive and they reflect on council priorities, the long-term plan. Um again the same sort of factors the capital budgets the strategic plans for the various divisions and departments etc. Um so if that helps at all understanding um what you might get back because what you'll likely get back in terms of report back is to say here's what the framework looks like and it still works. Um because we probably would have been back in front of council a long time ago if we thought that um that framework which is which is called the the real estate strategy plan um was not serving us well but it I believe it serves us well but more than happy to report back on on what is contained therein and and whether we think there should be an update or not. um doing an update would probably be a fairly lengthy um kind of exercise if if that is what the desire is um because it becomes a a very much a policy kind of exercise. If that's helpful, I'm just trying to add a little bit of um context to something that you haven't seen obviously and therefore have no um no history of. Yeah, thank you through the chair. I think the last part is um uh relevant at least as my what I think is my responsibility as governor. I haven't seen it so I can't um comment on um its relevancy or whether it needs to be reviewed. So if I could ask just um pick an example, would that policy would that practice have been used a in the assessment of a Delta high school through the chair? So through the chair um that framework I I'd prefer to use framework as opposed to policy necessarily although it is a policy um is used in everything that we do. So, if we're acquiring property or if we're disposing of property or if we're going out to do a lease longer than 5 years, um whether we're a tenant or a landlord, um we use that same framework of circulating, having a dialogue, reflecting on the policies and priorities of the city in terms of making a determination as to how to move forward with any particular property. So I'm I'm sorry chair was this practice used in the assessment of the Delta High School. So remind me was the um this framework or um it it would have if it was in front of us. So it was Delta Delta was surplused? Yes. So when Delta came forward, yes, we would use the same process because it was a schoolboard property. It actually would have been dealt with at this committee. Okay. And so would staff have brought a re I wasn't here at the time. So thank you through the chair. Would staff have brought a recommendation to this committee on that property through the chair? Yes. Every every property that is a schoolboard property comes forward with a recommendation. Okay. So, I'm I'm certainly not wanting to create um uh an enormous amount of work for staff, but I do think I have a responsibility to see um the framework slash policy slash whatever it is. and the fact that I'm continuously it's pro probably speaks to my limitations but having to try for my benefit daylight what the process is I think um speaks to the fact that I don't um I I would request that information. So if staff could report back on um the 2000 and whatever uh portfolio management framework uh that would be helpful. Okay. So, basically what you're looking for Oh, sorry. C, go ahead. Do the summary. I was basically what you're looking for is um well, now that you've distracted my train of thought, it's gone. Um, councelor Wilson, you'd like them to send us information sharing what the framework/policy from, I believe it's 2004. um and and then maybe we can review it and then have a secondary meeting to discuss our concerns with this um board. Thank you uh chair for that summary. Yes, I I would like a report back on this thing. Mhm. and um any recommendations that staff may have on um whether they feel changes may be warranted based on it's a completely new era when it comes to both um I think our priorities and our capacity and our um appreciation of um what is the role of municipal government in trying to leverage um land with partners through the chair and that's understood as I know that there's been some concerns about some properties that have um changed hands of ownership and uh some current counselors view that as missed opportunity. So I understand that uh council crutch. Oh sorry very briefly just to say that I think there are even just two things from today that for me would be worthwhile in terms of reviewing this policy. One about having a program that we already have in place. So sometimes that can be a limiting factor. And also for instance just listening to what um chief real estate officer Kesler was saying about a 5-year lease. sometimes that can be prohibitive or or problematic if it's going to bind the next council. So, you know, maybe there's some some wording to look at that saying, you know, within this term of council, that kind of things. I think there's some things that are worth looking at because there have been some issues that have come up where it would have been helpful to review these things and have them come to a committee. My only concern is that the schoolboard properties committee and the school board this what we do here is only a subsection of this policy. So, it might be that that we report this back to another body. So that's fine if that's what we do and that's the recommendation is to report back to GIC or somewhere else because there's a number of committees that will be impacted by this work. So just wanted to say that out loud that it's not just the work of this committee. Okay. Thank you councelor Bey. Thank you chair throughu and I was going down the same direction as councelor crretch in terms of um understanding that this is a framework for all committees everywhere the entire city that's used as the decision-making matrix. um for all property related decision points. Um our purview would be how does that framework interplay with our decision- making for schoolboard based acquisitions. Um we may discover through our our conversations in that interface that we we do want to have a broader conversation about the strategy as a whole. that wouldn't be our purview to do at this subcommittee. And and I guess my question would be perhaps as part of the of the information we're requesting here. If a broader review of the strategy was uh to be requested, where would that land? Because um it it wouldn't be within our wheelhouse to do it here. So through the chair, I think you're saying the same thing as as what councelor Crunch had had mentioned. I was going to make the same suggestion. And I I think the report back should be to GIC. Okay. But I do think just very specifically I'm I'm primarily interested first and foremost how the strategy interplays with the decision points that we do here in terms of schoolboard acquisition. I think that there's an additional conversation that could take place beyond this subcommittee uh for broader city context. So there's almost a phase one phase two to how that may play out that I'm trying to map out when we get there. But initially I'm interested in how the current strategy works for schoolboard acquisition specifically for the mandate of this subcommittee and then I think we all most of us anyways and councelor crretch is with us on this would would appreciate having a broader conversation on the strategy in total at some later date outside of the realm of this committee. So through the chair um we also have a policy with regards to how we deal with schoolboard properties which is a subset of the it it wasn't part of it but it was certainly a policy that we developed a number of years ago. um maybe there's value in bringing to this subcommittee um that framework, right? Because they they both connect, right? Um and and schoolboard properties are a unique set in the sense that there's a set of rules that we need to follow that are dictated by the province. So there's a new regulation um used to be regulation 444. I can't remember what the regulation number is now. Uh, you know, they've changed the uh they've changed the framework a little bit. Um, in fact, there's there's not a lot of experience. Um, school boards don't have a lot of experience actually going through the new framework which is a little more provinially dominated. Um, but maybe there's some value in uh I'll say part one to the request and I'm just making this as a suggestion of course, but maybe part one to the request is uh the next time you know this subcommittee meets or whenever you want to prescribe it, we bring back a report that gives an overview of how we deal with schoolboard properties both in light of the new regulation as well as as the um the 2004 strategy plan. Um and then part two um so that would be for this subcommittee and then part two would be uh for for GIC and that would be the broader broader um information and and any other recommendations we might want to bring back with regards to that broader strategy plan. Does that make sense? I think so. And and I mean just to make sure that we're we're all singing from the same sheet. Um this isn't a critique of the decision-m process. What this is is a recognized uh recognizing that the current framework was I think 2004 would have been developed maybe the first term of the first amalgamated council. Um, we've had significant evolution, I would suggest, uh, since then in terms of the possible direction of the city, the the intent, the thought process, the people that were around the table when that strategy was created are no longer around the table. Um, just, you know, a lot has changed in the world and understanding if that needs to have some modifications, some tweaks along the way to represent a modern current reality for the city of Hamilton. I think that's that's the driver of this. Um, and I'm I'm thankful that I think we'll be able to possibly lead to some better outcomes, particularly because we are in a bit of a a lull right now. We're in a slump in terms of property acquisition. There haven't been any. It's been proincially mandated that there are no school closures, therefore there are no dispositions, but eventually that will change. and ensuring that we have the right strategy and framework for the future. Setting ourselves up, whatever the composition of this committee looks like, ensuring that they're prepared for those decision points when they do come, I think is um incumbent upon this this subcommittee to to further that work to ensure that we're set up for success. That's all, chair. Thank you, Councelor Bey. So, being the simple and linear thinker that I am, I want to just focus on part one for today. Sure. And um I guess to the clerk something along the lines that this committee will or this sub there will be a report back to this subcommittee with recommendations on the 2004 framework/policy as it relates to the new regulations called the portfolio management strategy. The technical ter Just want to make sure that we're talking about the same using the same lexicon. But leaves us. So through the chair, we just need the mover and seconder. Okay. That's what they would like their motion to be. Um the move Wilson. Thank you. I I think it's fine. Thank you. Um to the chair. I guess what I'm I'm not clear on uh through the chair to Elsie Goceier. Does this subcommittee report to GIC through the chair? Yes, it does. So, some procedural assistance uh what the chief real estate officer was referencing uh a separate ask. that ask could be made at this committee and it would land on the minutes of GIC and could be that if those minutes are approved then we would take that as action through the chair through the chair. Yes. The other thing you could do is you could also make an amendment at GIC as well to request further a further ask to come back to GIC. Okay. U perhaps um I might do that. I don't want to take up the time of my colleagues and I would like to converse with them to make sure that we land on something that we all um agree with in terms of language and ask and direction. Um so there's that. I just can't forget to do it. Um but on the first part that the chair summarized um my only request uh it doesn't sound like this u forgive me if I'm wrong is a lot of work for staff. So if I could have a quicker timelineed in the motion, I would appreciate it through the chair. So So would quarter two be accessible or acceptable and then possibly after we have that next meeting in quarter two, then we move the broader part after we understand it better to GIC or would you like the GIC ask to be concurrent? I'm not sure and that's why I'd like to to collaborate with my colleagues through the chair. Okay. So through the chair just clarity on the deadline is that the end of quarter two because we would be no quarter two would be we're in quarter two we're in quarter two June June I forgot that January February and March we're in the kitchen I don't understand that. Can I just get a a quick understanding of when quarter 2 began? It's April. April. April. So, what's today's date? March. So, we forgoting Q2. Thank you. No problem. I know. Okay. So I think yeah I think that was a fair ask June if possible the staff as possible. Okay July sorry through the chair we'll bring it back as quickly as we can. I I I recognize the desire to have that as as soon as possible. I just from a workload perspective and um I don't want to uh promise something that we might end up being a little bit later on. Fair. Thank you. Okay. I would like to push for the June, but we'll do the best we can. Um clerk, do you have something to put up on the screen for us and then we can all have a go at it? Go ahead. So through the chair just a question on that. Are you talking about this report back to this subcommittee? Yes. By June. Yes. Okay. That I can commit to. Yes. Right. I'm just thinking about the broader report back to GIC might take a little bit longer. I think the vetting process there might uh extend the time frame a little bit. I understand that. And I think what we're looking for as the other counselors mentioned is like there is going to be we need the understanding at this smaller subcommittee level in order to make guided questions and and direction for the broader picture. Councelor M. Wilson, do you want that second broader part put in the motion now or Okay. So, we'll just focus on question or on section part one as defined by councelor Bey and yourself. Sorry, Cameron. Uh, councelor Crutch can't hear me through the chair. I think um I will work with you and my colleagues and bring that next to the GIC for an amendment. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So, the motion that staff be directed to report back by June 2026 to the schoolboard properties subcommittee with an overview of the new provincial regulations as it relates to the 2004 portfolio manage management strategy. Thank you. In terms of Okay. In terms of is that for schoolboard acquisitions or is that too repetitive because we've got it in there? It doesn't m you get it. You understand that Ray that direction. Okay. We don't have to do that last four line four sentence. Okay. than just well we want them I want it to be tight because it does say that at the top okay and that's kind of yeah you can just delete that thanks okay councelor bey thank you chair through you um this is a an excellent beginning and I'm just wondering in terms of language I think this was the additional ask, but the original ask still stands in terms of any staff thinking on possible updates that they would suggest to the portfolio strategy as it relates to school property acquisitions as a broad I mean the nuts and bolts of it. We have a 22-year-old strategy. Do you as the professionals, do you see any incumbrances, sticking points, roadblocks in a modern context to what we're trying to achieve here as it relates to the current composition of um strategic priorities of the city, the current composition? We didn't have a housing secretariat in 2004, for example. So, any additional updates that you may think would be of benefit to this uh to the strategy. So if I can interrupt before you ask that question, are you asking that they run it through their monthly meeting of directors that that because they they meet monthly and could this could we give them direction to I I don't take that question to to to the directors. So uh I don't know that it's required to put it in there. I'm going to trust that staff are able to have these conversations and come back with some recommendation. If they choose to do it through the director meetings, fine. If they choose not to, fine. Um, these are the real estate professionals. How does this strategy in a modern context correlate with our current framework, priorities, and structure? That that's really the fundamental question. And are there updates that you think could be or should be made that would help us to do a better job of what we're trying to achieve? Councelor M. Wilson. Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate that. I I just um I think what I'm hearing is staff are necessarily doing it. However, um if everybody was hit by a bus, uh then I think we have to uh be accountable um and transparent in how they're doing it. So, what what how is this strategy presently being informed by uh 22 years on? Um I I think that it I'm sure by reflex and by their professional orientation and practice they're doing it. I would just like to know how they're doing it and whether there's an opportunity for it to that strategy to be further informed by where we are now. That chair, how would you modify that statement then in order to capture that? Um, including any recommended changes as per council priorities. Okay. And um and um and policies like I I appreciate learning and hearing the assurance that the housing secretariat is at the table. Um, I what I'm still not understanding is how do we discern whether something could be identifiable as a partnership opportunity or a recreational opportunity? I I don't I don't know. for example, uh we we we have a lot of need for recreational assets in um some of the newer parts of our city. I I just am not sure how that calibration is is done. I mean, maybe I'm not just understanding it. And probably that's why I'm hoping to receive some daylight on the strategy and um I'm hopeful and I'm and I'm thinking that if we have this ask that more daylight will be shone on it. Um director, do you understand what you're leaving here with? Yeah. through the chair. We'll take this back very broadly as opposed to narrowly interpreting or trying to interpret uh the words. And so we'll we'll we'll look at our policies, our procedures, and and uh certainly council priorities um as part of that exercise. And so we'll be fairly wholesome in terms of um what we're looking at and and what we might bring back as as recommendations or not. Okay. Thank you, Councelor Bey. Thank you. Thank you, chair. Thank you for your indulgence and your patience on this as we we're just on the fly, which is not always easy. Uh, a last and I almost promise this will be the last modification to this. Um, in conferring with the mover and myself as seconder of this motion, uh, a small change to as per council priorities, policies, take out the and, and then after policies and, master plans, there's a series of master plans that govern direction when it comes to recreation when it comes to housing, etc. the road map, etc. I think it that that wording is important and relevant to um the information that we're seeking back. Great. I think that's what I was trying to go for. So, thanks for pulling that together. I um can support that. I think everybody else, Councelor Cret, are you um good with the wording? Okay. The nod is affirmative. I think it's time to vote. I think we'll take a electronic vote. That passes four to nothing. There are no notices of motion. I therefore at this time of 10:12 call the school board property subcommittee adjourned. Thank you.

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