Transcript - Opposition to Tactile Indicator Changes - Accessibility Committee for Persons with Disabilities

Opposition to Tactile Indicator Changes - Accessibility Committee for Persons with Disabilities - April 7, 2026

April 7th, sound check to the April 7th, 2026 meeting, the accessibility committee for person with disabilities. Uh I will now uh call a roll call. Uh we'll commence a roll call. Please indicate your presence when I call your name. Oh, okay. Uh Cara Hernold. I don't see Cara. Uh Leaf Johansson here. Thank you. Uh, Levi Janosce here. Thank you. Hargan Carr, I don't see. Paula Kilburn here. Thank you. Jake Maurice maybe soon. Uh, Mark McNeel here. Thank you. Kim Nolan. Don't hear Tim Nolan. here. I heard Tim a second ago. Okay, we'll move on. Can you hear me? Oh, yes, we can hear you, Tim. Kim with you by chance. Uh, yeah, she's unavailable. She has to offload again. So, okay. I'm sorry to hear, but thank you very much. Uh, Robert Westbrook. Not seeing uh councelor Mark Tatterson present. Thank you. And James Kemp, I am here. Okay. Uh would the staff who are present please please introduce themselves with their name and position. Carrie Mintosh, legislative coordinator. Tamar Bates, legislative coordinator. Thank you. Sunil Sunil Angish, staff leison. Thank you. Michelle Michelle Martin, manager of accessible transportation services. Thank you. Is Owen here? Owen Quinn, project manager, accessible transportation services. Thank you, Marco. Marco Mustache, uh, senior project manager, accessible transportation services. Thank you, Brian. Brian Haulingworth, director of engineering services. Thank you, Abdul. Hi, this is Abdul Sher, director LRT project office. Thank you. Uh, Anna Hannah, senior project manager for planning and urban design with the LRT project office. Thank you very much. Uh, Elena Lenny, sorry. Eleni Jalboot, senior communications advisor, LRT project office. Thank you. Uh, Susan Susan Jacob, manager of design engineering services. Thank you. Are there any other staff present that I haven't called on? I'm seeing none, we can move on. I now call to order. As we have quorum present for today's meeting, I would like to call this meeting of the accessibility committee for person with disabilities to order. as well a reminder that all electronic devices are to be switched to a non-audible function during committee meetings. Uh Elsie Macintosh will now read the Hamilton land acknowledgement. The city of Hamilton is situated upon the traditional territories of the eerie neutral here on Wendat Hadoni and Missagas. This land is covered by the dish with one spoon wampam belt covenant which was an agreement between the haroni and the national navet to share and care of the resources around the great lakes. We further acknowledge that this land is covered by the between the lakes purchase 1792 between the crown and the missagas of the credit first nation. Today, the city of Hamilton is home to many indigenous people from across Turtle Island, North America, and we recognize that we must do more to learn about the rich history of this land so that we can better understand our roles as residents, neighbors, partners, and caretakers. Thank you, Elsie Macintosh. Approval of agenda. May I please have a mover and a second to approve the agenda as presented? Levi. Seconded by Mark, thank you. Uh, are there any amendments to the agenda? I'm hearing none. Sorry, James. There is a withdrawal of the delegation item 6.1. Oh, thank you very much. Um, okay. So, there uh is there anybody opposed to approving the agenda as presented? As as amended. Sorry, my apologies. I'm seeing none, then that is carried. Thank you. Declarations of interest. Are there any declarations of interest? Seeing none, we will move on. Adoption of minutes of the previous meeting, March 10th, 2026. May ple in a mover and a seconder to adopt the March 10, 2026 minutes. Moved by Paula, seconded by Seconded by Levi. Thank you. Is there any discussion on the minutes? I'm not seeing any. Uh so there's anybody opposed to adopting the March 10th, 2026 minutes. Thank you. That is carried. Okay. Delegations. Delegation has been uh withdrawn. So we will move on from that. Uh seven items for information. In the interest of time, we're going to hear all the items for information 7.1 to 7.9 and then receive them together at the end. 7.1 Accessible Transportation Services 2025 cumulative performance report revised. Michelle Martin, manager of accessible transportation services will present. Thank you through the chair. I'm actually uh designating the presentation to project manager Owen Quinn. Thanks, Michelle. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I'm going to share my uh my screen um to let me know and otherwise I will dictate um the findings um verbatim or or you know I'll give an overview um so let me share sorry bear with me um share the screen now okay it should be up okay so um yes thanks Michelle this is the accessible transportation services 2025 cumulative performance report. So uh you'll see we compare to past years um in terms of the data. I'm going to go to the figure one first slide. Um the first slide looks at system demand by mode where we look at shared ride which is darts versus taxis script. Um so what what the data has shown from 2019 to 2025 um the most of the the demand is for darts. The shared ride it back in 2019 it was about 92% for darts. Um compared to 2025 it's about 97% for darts. Taxi script on the other hand has um decreased. In 2019, it was worth eight% of the share um for demand and 2025, 3%. So, it has decreased by over half during the period. Um and um by the way, ATSF will be glad to answer questions after. I'm just going to move on uh to the next figure if that's okay. Um the second slide we looked at, we looked at the rate of trips delivered, cancelled, and denied. So, this is for darts. So um in 2019 um trips delivered accounted for about 79%. This has actually dropped in 2025 it's dropped to 68%. Um now it you know there's been uh in terms of the trips delivered. So we also look at the rate of trips denied. Now the Ontario human rights commission uh there was a settlement um target that was um basically approved which was 5%. 5% is the rate of deni denied trips maximum. So if we look at the period 2019 this was 1.2%. It has doubled um by 2025 it was 2.7%. It's still below the 5% rate of um denials um which was the target. Uh passenger cancellation rate has also increased from 2019. It was 22% at that point. It's increased to 29% 2025. So the next slide looks at demand. What the data has shown is um there's a trend between trips taken and applications received for the period. So if we look at the monthly averages um when applications received are great higher trips taken are higher as well. There's definitely a correlation. um back in um if I could look at the if we just look at the 2025 data on average about 200 applications are received per month um while about 50,000 trips 50,000 darts trips were um delivered. So the next slide, we looked at the darts um call center stats like calls answered. Um what the data has shown, we only had data going back to 2023. So the three years of data we looked at they show the overall service level which is the rate of calls answered within five minutes. It has significantly improved. Um in 2023 it was about 54%. Uh and in 2025 last year it was 73%. So there's been improvement um in the call center during that period 2023 to 2025. The next uh figure is on time performance. So for darts we look again there's different standards. There's um sort of the Canadian Urban Transit Association has an industry best standard of 99%. Um Darts during the 2019 to 2025 period. It's been hovering around there, it's anywhere between just below 98% to above 99%. So what we've seen um in 2023 the uh on-time performance did dip below 98%. It has since improved uh then it's 2025 it was about 98.4%. So you know we'd like to see it around the 99% which is the industry standard. Um, and also there is a minimum standard again that was set by the Ontario Human Rights Commission settlement ruling back in 2004. That ruling stated that um on time performance should be 95% or greater. So DARTS is well above that um that minimum standard. Okay, the next slide, this is actually the last one. Um the next slide looks at complaints accommodations. So if we look at the 2019 to 2025 period, the complaints um in 2019 there were almost two complaints per thousand trips. So this did increase to um in 2023 it sort of hit the uh highest level. It was 7 about 7.5 complaints per thousand trips. Now since then it has improved greatly. um 2025 there was three complaints per thousand trips for darts. Um so there's definitely been an improvement since it peaked in 2023. Um again the Canadian Urban Transit Association has a best practice of um one excuse me one um complaint per thousand trips and also one accommodation per thousand trips. So if we look at accommodations, um 2019 combinations were fairly low. I think about 0.4 per thousand trips. They did in 2021 to 2023 accommodations did hit the industry best practice of one one accommodation per thousand trips. Um however, it's since tapered off 2025. the data shows um about 66 accommodations per thousand trips. So again below the industry standard um you know we'd like to hopefully see that improve. Um but uh that's sort of the data overall. Um uh ATS staff would be uh happy to answer any questions and um thank you for listening. Thank you Owen. I do believe we have a speakers list. Uh Mark Yeah, going back to slide one, you had demand in the title. However, um uh if you're looking and comparing 2025 to 20 or 2019 to 2025, I think you can recall Owen that in 2019 we had 40 plus wheelchair cabs on the road and right now we have what under 10. Um uh so that's not really demand, that's just availability. If you're not going to have that level of cab calves on the road, then we're talking about apples to oranges. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. Right. Well, it would make sense that the you know obviously the supply is not there, the supply of taxes not there to meet the demand. So hence the you know the demand has red been you know it's decreased up to last year. Yeah. I'm just saying there should be an asterisk there somewhere on that figure to make people aware that the supply is what's feeding making the demand available. Yeah, we can make a note. We just will make a note. Um, for sure I can uh thank you. Yep. Thanks, Mark. Any other questions? Seeing none, Paula, can you take the um chair for a moment, please? Yes, sir. I have the chat. Thank you. Um these these numbers are great and and we keep getting them. Um there's always something that's missing to my mind uh especially when it comes to accessible um writers or writership. Um and that's that's the HSR I have to say. Um there there's a whole um section of this information we're not getting. We're not getting HSR complaints. We're not getting HSR commendations. we're not getting um uh actual writership. How many people are with mobility devices are boarding the bus from which we understood was to be start being recorded during the ferris program. Um now I know that's not part of the settlement. It's not required. Um but on occasion it wouldn't uh wouldn't hurt to actually have information on the accessible writership of HSR. Um whatever information can be provided. uh through the chair. I can answer that. I will take that back to my uh transit leadership team colleagues. Um I think it will be um of value for us to uh start including information like that especially if we move towards considering an integrated transit pilot um and um as part of the research work that we are going to be engaging with uh McMaster about. Thank you very much Michelle. Um and that was it. I I'll take the chair back. The chair is yours, sir. Thank you very much. Uh so so now before we move on, is there any other questions or comments for Owen? Stop sharing your screen. Owen, can you please stop sharing your screen? Oh, yes. Sorry, James. Yeah, I'll do it right now. Okay. Is it done? Okay. Thanks. Okay. I'm seeing no other comments or questions for Owen. Okay, then. Uh thank you very much Owen. Um so we'll just move straight on into 7.2 then. Uh thank you Michelle. Uh tactile walking surface indicators at curb ramps and depressed sidewalks. Brian Haulingworth, director engineering services will present. Uh thank you chair. Um we're very excited to be here to present this report on tactile walking surface indicators. Um, I think it's been a discussion that's um been around for a long time and uh we look forward to receiving uh comments on the proposed direction that that uh we're thinking about heading and Susan Jacob, manager of design, will take you through the presentation. Is the presentation being shared? If you if you share it, I think it's better. I don't see. Okay. I think it should be coming up. Thanks for your patience. Thank you, Brian. And thank you um committee for giving us the opportunity to present the uh tactile walking surface indicator. We are doing the presentation. You can go to the next slide. We would like to do the presentation today so that we can um share the information and get some guidance on the requested change in the sidewalk and curb ramp um tactile warning walking strip indicators. Um we'll go to the next slide. The background of this is that we are using the tactile warning walking strips. The way it is currently designed is based on the urban braille guidelines which was started in 1996. Following that in uh at the time of Hamilton it it was one of the um best solutions that we had created within Hamilton itself and uh in 2016 the AODA guidelines came into being and uh based on that we recreated the tactile warning strip which is a black uh surface this black concrete surface with the guidelines uh etched on it. We'll go to the next slide please. So you can see that in the picture that is shown here. The tactile warning strip was created. It is supposed to be uh a tactile as well as a tonal indicator by which a a person a pedestrian is able to identify um the difference in the surface and have a warning before they are stepping into the uh ashalt surface or into the roadway. And uh this was created using a concrete surface that was black in color which provides a tonal difference. And the tactile was based on the um the grooves that was created on the concrete itself. It is 25 mm in depth and that's how the tactile was created. The uh design standard is shown in the RD124. It is a published document in the city's website. Can go to the next slide. So some of the rational for updating this design guideline is that Hamilton guidelines um differ from the uh provincial standards. All the other municipalities have been utilizing the tactile war walking uh surface indicators. It is called twissy. You can see that it's a domes that is uh indicated on the surface which provides you that tactile as well as the tonal uh indication. So the design is uh um includes it's included in the OPSD so it's a provincial standard that we are requesting to go to. This uh provincial standard is uh is based on the Canadian uh CSA standard as well as the international ISO standards and it's very prevalent throughout in many other uh municipalities as well as various provinces. It is widely accepted. So um we'll go to the next slide. Some of the other rational is that the city of Hamilton utilizes the OPSD tactile warning strip for many other facilities. So we'll be varying within the right to will have difference in the uh application of the tactile warning. So this is one of the reasons that we are requesting to switch over to the Tissy as everyone else is doing. The stamp colored concrete is also difficult to maintain as well as it has got uh the implementation has been not very consistent throughout the city. the cast in place concrete um versions can be difficult um to to uh implement as well and uh members of the public are observing that it's different in city of Hamilton than in all the other municipalities. So the traveling public has been requesting for the the reason and uh has been requesting for the change to twisty. Go to the next one. So the proposed change is indicated on this picture here where it will be um the truncated domes as we have been seeing in many other municipalities and there are different colors and different uh materials that can be used for this toy. Um we wanted to have this discussion here before we explored further into which color or what type we want wanted to um adopt to Next one. So we have uh provided some references here which you can probably look into so that you understand how the other um where we are coming from regarding the background of this uh tactile warning walking surface indicators. That's all for today. Um any questions I'll be happy to take. Thank you, Susan. And I see we have a speakers list already. Paula, um, this came to us, oh, I don't know how many years ago, many years ago, and this committee said no to the domes. The domes are dangerous. The domes are slippy. People can fall on them. They're not good for wheelchairs. Um and again when you put the domes on there is no directional uh indication on which way a person with vision loss should should travel. Um urban braille was made available because it was the best way to to indicate um travel on the sidewalks and how to get across the road. Right? because it gave you indications on how to which direction you were going in. The domes, as I've said, they get slippy, they icy in the winter. Um, a person with a cane, like I use, has no idea which way I'm supposed to go when I'm standing at that that corner. So, if you put the domes on, I will be very very angry. So, Can you tell me why we have to be the same as everybody else? Why can we not just be different like we are now? And if you tell me it's money, then I will have another through the through the chair. It's uh Brian Hollingworth here. Um uh I'll start out and um then let Susan uh elaborate. Um the good news is is not this is not about money. money didn't didn't factor into it really at all. Um we're really trying to gravitate uh we feel it's important to gravitate towards what the province is saying as the best practice. Um if you do uh research and that's why we provided some of the the links in the in the presentation um you know it it appears that uh this is this design has been endorsed by by CNIB um and and is well utilized. So, you know, while it's good to be unique in Hamilton, uh we also have to consider that not everyone lives and stays in Hamilton and we do accommodate visitors and there will be a contrast um there's there's facilities being built um as we speak, provincial facilities um that include the provincial design. And last but not least, it this may not be a decision that is is left for the city. Uh the province has come out with some new legislation. um I believe it's bill 60 uh which looks like it's going to require um municipalities to conform to the provincial design. So I I think there's a number of reasons um why we're gravitating towards where we think we should be heading but but we're here to have that discussion. Okay. Stop making me happy. If I may, um I'll add on to what Brian has just mentioned and Paula your question was regarding the indication or the um the directional lines that is required and that will not go away. We will continue to provide the directional lines as we have it currently. Um you can see that in all the intersections that we already uh provided the black um twissy or the tactile warning uh strip as we have here in Hamilton. So we'll continue to provide that directional lines regardless of whether we are going to the trunated domes or not. Is there anything else we could do besides the domes? I know you're saying that Ontario is now going to say we have to do it, but they don't have to travel on them. And CNIB, I don't know where they think sometimes, but um we have 30% of the population of Hamilton has a disability and if we say that they're not safe or they're not, you know, what we need, I don't know, as the province should be telling us what to do. So anyway, um that's my uh uh comments for now anyway. Okay, Paula, I'll just have to stop you there. We'll have to get you for a second time round. Okay, uh Mark. Yeah. uh page six at the very bottom he said that there's this big ground swelling of support for domes as opposed to the uh process that we went through similar to this in which we decided against the domes for safety. Maybe this province isn't just aware of these concerns that we had um in the previous term that resulted in uh the alternative to the domes. Um, I just think that here we are again rehashing something that we went through a lot of effort and consultation with council and it's being thrown back at us as if it's more consultation to the right answer and I just Yeah, that's just really frustrating. Um uh great presentation, it's just wrong and we already did this once before and we would like council to support us and recommend to the province that they re-examine this issue and uh do the type of analysis that uh Paula did what uh eight years ago. Anyway, those are my comments. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Is there any other questions or comments? Oh, Jake. Hang on a second, Jake. We're getting a little feedback. We all good? Yeah. Okay, go ahead, Jake. Yeah. Um, just a comment like, uh, as it's been mentioned by other folks, like this design is fundamentally unsafe. Uh, as a manual wheelchair user, this design is quite unsafe. Um, I've traveled to Toronto where, uh, they utilize the domes a lot more. Um, and there's been like numerous times where I can't actually safely get up the curb cut because of the domes and it just like stopping all of my momentum. And I've been stuck in the middle of an intersection because I can't safely get up the curb cut. And then when they're wet, it's even worse cuz then they're slippery and it's just it's just a bad design. Um, and causes more problems than whatever like potential good. Like I think it's just deeply problematic. And that's my comments. Okay. Thank you, Jake. Um, I didn't see a question there. Um, Tim Nolan, did you to say something? Yes, please. Can you hear me? We can hear you. Okay, great. Um, okay. So, I have a couple of questions. First, um, Susan, I believe, um, you mentioned that there was, uh, input from visitors to Hamilton about the desire. Where where is that data collected? who collects it and um how often is it shared, where is it shared etc. Can you provide some detail on that? Thank you for that question. We have had uh emails reach design section because the design guide it's called the design guidelines. So we have had uh emails from um people from other jurisdictions who has traveled through city of Hamilton having that question raised. So um previously as well in 2016 when city was adopting the uh the urban braille or the uh the Hamilton made solution of concrete RD124 standard. We were reached out by several manufacturers as well. So, one is manufacturers, but these are visitors that I've been getting emails from recently as well. So, um I do have a few emails that was received. So, um in fairness, I don't I don't think we can count manufacturers emails or correspondence. they have interest and I think we have to absolutely um disregard any any correspondence from manufacturers on this subject. Um that said, can you give me some detail on how many emails have you had from people with disabilities who are visitors to Hamilton saying they want the domes? Like let's get some numbers. Can you can you share that? I did not have a whole lot of emails just a few so to for the clarification uh but the idea of looking into this further did not stem from that it is because we have large-s size projects that is happening within city of Hamilton and the practicality of maintaining the uh the urban braille or the tactile warning strip is one of the reasons why we are here today. It did not stem just from the uh inquiries that I received. Okay. So, what I'm what I'm sorry, go ahead. Add add to some context. Um, you know, I do as a director of engineering get emails uh from the general public. I I don't know whether they're what disability they have, but they're basically calling out the city of Hamilton for for not adopting the provincial standard. And I I think the point that it is a made in Hamilton um solution and in involved a lot of input from individuals on this committee and beyond is is important and and we recognize that you know this it's kind of a a sense of of attachment but I also would like to acknowledge that you know in other municipalities which have adopted this standard there was a lot of consultation. So, you know, if you look at what the city of Toronto did, um they held uh meetings with various groups, advisory groups, um you know, the the this standard is a international ISO standard created in 1999. So, yes, it's good to be different, but it's also there are some some challenges that come with being different. Thanks. Okay. So, I appreciate that. Um, I I have to tell you that uh the design standards for Hamilton were designed as as you said back in 1996 when they were first introduced. Um, I was the person who actually introduced the idea to the regional advisory committee back in 1990. um that uh initiated uh a very uh in uh lengthy and and and uh I'm not sure what the right word is. Uh it was a lengthy it was a very wholesome uh consultation with the community over a very long period of time to uh come up with the standards. Um, as Paula said, one of the primary features is is uh uh directional information. The second thing is um and and this is where this is where the standard falls down. One of the things that's associated with urban braille is uh the tactile markings along the entirety of the pathway. And if I'm to understand what what Susan you're saying, uh it sounds like the city just can't be bothered trying to use the tactile markings along the entirety of the pathway as opposed to just at the corners. This conversation is about intersections and corners. But uh people with vision loss rely heavily upon the tactile markings along the entirety of the pathway in order to give them a directional queuing as well as safety from other barriers within the within the pathway. Tim, I have to I have to cut you off. I'm told uh you're you're out of time. Uh can I put you on the speakers list for a second time? Uh I apologize. Yes. Yeah, sure. Please. Thank you very much, Tim. Uh, okay. Next up on the speakers list was Mark. Yeah. Um, uh, first of all, the standards that you want to move to are what, 26 years old, and the standards that Hamilton has adhered to recently is uh, what uh, seven years old. A lot of analysis went into this and it might be helpful if you get emails saying why are we doing it this way to have a pre-anned um uh response email that tells them what we went through as a committee with council to come up with the current uh um implementation and um uh you're saying that some of those emails that you received were about cost but the statement was that it's not about cause. So, um uh you know, I'm confused that we're doing this time and again to rehash an old issue and um uh yeah. Okay. So, that I think that I did mention that uh that uh that vague comment about feedback, lots of feedback from other people uh is on the end of page six. That's the single bullet at the end of page six. So anyway, thank you. Thank you, Mark. Uh, I just want to check in with Leaf before I hand over to Tim. You have your microphone off. Did you want to speak, Leaf? No. Okay. Thank you. Uh, Tim, go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. So coming back to the point that that urban braille uh provides more than just directional lines across an intersection. Um, so I I wonder if if before any further action is taken on this, maybe what we should be doing is um uh with all uh you know with maybe Susan and and perhaps Brian, any other staff within your department that you feel is is necessary. um uh maybe we can convene a a discussion with a smaller group of ACPD around this matter. So, people like Paula and and myself and Mark and Jake and and perhaps others um uh where we can we can revisit this because um you know um Susan, you talked about um uh pictures and you know looking at uh those pictures. Well, I'm I'm pretty sure Paula can't see the pictures and I know I certainly can't see the pictures. So um uh you know that information is kind of uh difficult. Um, so maybe we can convene a a more comprehensive and and wholesome discussion in in another uh uh venue um where we can look at what the provincial standard is, what the CSA standards are, um look at what the province is saying around implementation of those standards. uh you know consider what other municipalities are doing and see if we can't find a way to perhaps marry what uh uh is coming out of the province and CSA and uh with uh what we've done in Hamilton uh for the past 35 years uh in trying to meet the needs of people with disabilities including the the implementation of the urban braille Um and I just might add one additional piece. This committee on a number of occasions has recommended to council um without any action on the part of council that the urban braille design be applied in in areas outside of BAS. the current unless unless the city has changed its its implementation guidelines uh the urban braille only is applied in the um in BIA areas. So it it it makes me wonder whether or not or how valuable that uh uh you know correspondence is from people who don't uh know what the policy's policy is with regard to implementation. So I think these this issue is a much bigger issue than what we can just simply say yes or no here. I think it should go to a small working group um where we can hash this stuff out more comprehensively. Anyway, thank you. Tim has Brian has a response for you uh through the chair. Thank you. Um we would we would be more than delighted to have a smaller working group. Um I wanted to clarify that we're not proposing to to change the basis of the urban braille system that exists today. We're basically honing in on the one component which is the um tactile walking surface indicators or warning strip indicators at at the depressed curbs and curb ramps. So it's it's just changing the the one component of the urban rail system uh the uh the lines along along the edges of the of the sidewalk um for directional um for directionality will will remain. So that that's all we're not um discussing that today. Hopefully that's well understood. Okay, that's great and I appreciate that. I still think we need a working group on this where we can where we can all come together uh with with a a plan and an appro and an approach um that we can collectively go back to council and say we've worked this through. We've talked it through. we've dealt with it and and now we're ready to uh move on um in agreement. So, okay, thanks Tim. Uh yeah, we will definitely uh my my only concern was that you were going to go directly to council after this. So, yes, we will definitely uh work to arrange that and um anybody that's interested, please let me know and we will try and arrange a special time um of the bill group and I will invite you Tim as well. Um, thank you. Okay. Uh, moving on. Uh, Paula second time. Okay. So, do we have any idea say Toronto, how many people from Hamilton go to Toronto and complain about the the domes? Do we have any idea on that? Oh, how many people even in Toronto complain about the domes and why? We could probably we could probably find that out. Um, we don't have that, but we could probably find it out because we just uh hired a new director of of transportation who is from the city of Toronto. Okay. Okay. And um I'm thinking you know the directional lines. Yes. When I run my cane down the directional lines, right, I know it's going say that way on an angle and then I run it and it goes over the smooth edge on the well the tactile edge on the on the um cut there, right? But if there's domes there, my cane's going to bump over it. Now, I'm not sure whether that's going to help me to find my direction because it may throw my cane off and I may go off in the wrong direction. So, there's all these things. I know they have them in England. They have them everywhere in England. Um I fell twice on them because of the the the ice. I've fallen twice here with the cuz they have them in certain places here, right? Um, but I don't know. I don't think people that have wheelchairs, like Jake said, people who have problems with jarring um in wheelchairs that would affect their health. I I don't know. I I don't think they're a good idea. And I, as Tim said, I would love to have a more in-depth um discussion on this. And I don't know, maybe you guys need to get in a wheelchair or use a cane and go to the city where they have domes and see how they uh how ineffective they are. So, thank you. Thank you, Paula. Um, okay. I have a first- time speaker, uh, Levi. Uh, hi. I just wanted to, uh, chime in a little bit. Um, because it's I find this conversation very very interesting. And the reason I find it interesting is because I'm hard of hearing. That's my disability. Um but what I do hear is people who are interested and affected by the discussion point are absolutely against it. So I recommend to Susan and David I think it is um who are representing the changes potentially being made that they take this seriously. We are the the foremost experts when it comes to our disability and just the fact that the province is different from us from Hamilton that doesn't make them better. Never did and it never will. Hamilton um Cha the the Canadian Heart of Hearing Association has a national uh branch and has a Hamilton branch. We do some things differently because we do it better. And that's my point. I'm going to support our members in in making sure that this discussion continues and no changes are made that they are not happy with it. Thank you very much, Levi. Okay. Uh Mark for a third time. Um uh so much work was done on this and the standard Hamilton implemented is at least 15 years younger than the old tactile version. I find those plates uh extremely slippy at corners and uh what I can recognize is the amount of work that was done where we fell down is we didn't realize that there would be this resurging ghost of these old rail dimple things. And what we should have done is created a document for staff to respond that says why Hamilton went this direction. And maybe we could draft a document like that at this uh special working group just to explain, why it was changed, why we think it's successful, and why it would be um wrong to retrench back to a standard that we found effective in the first place. And uh since it's not about cost, I think we can maybe try to draft that type of document as to why we made those changes. Anyway, that's what I was thinking. Thank you for the suggestion and we'll mark it down and discuss it when we meet with the working group. There any other comments or questions from any of the members before I have my turn? Okay, I'm seeing none. Apollo, would you mind taking the chair for a few minutes? I have the chair, sir. Thank you very much. Um, okay. First off, um, we have tried the the the dome tactile plates. We tried them on York Street. It was a disaster. Um, and that's really when we started coming up with this particular um, version of it. Um, all road services are difficult to maintain. you're, you know, having to maintain the road and the intersections and whatnot, which are in rough shape now. So, saying it's difficult to maintain, you mean all, all road surfaces are difficult to maintain. It's just part of the parcel of the of the task at hand. Um, in last year, about the same time it built, uh, we we suggested that we work with you because we've noticed that some of the pads are are are wearing differently because we're different using different patterns. Some patterns are square hatch patterns, some are diagonal hatch patterns, some of their little squares, some of them are lines. And we're seeing different surface wear on the different patterns. And we've also seen I think you were experimenting with a couple of different surfaces cuz one's darker than one's lighter than the other. Uh, one seems to be suffering more than the other. One seems to be more brittle, for example. So, we'd like to work with you and try and improve these things to help you maintain it. Um, but it's always going to be difficult to maintain. Just just because we remove these plates doesn't mean you're not going to have the same issues with urban braille which uses the same coating system and whatnot also gets scraped up by plows and whatnot. It's still still difficult to maintain. Um the research you mentioned doing um our city is different. Uh we we went a different way and I think that we did it better. Um our job is to uh advocate for improvements over the AODA. is way over the AODA because not only does it take into account people with vision loss, the tactile strips work for them, but the uh tactile strips that we have or the the textured paving that we have right now also works for other disabilities. It works for people with mobility devices, as I mentioned. We can traverse it pretty easily. Uh people in strollers, walking their babies trying to get to sleep. It's not going to bother them crossing it because it's an easy way of getting uh down onto the road surface. Um it's uh grippy. It's not slippery like the plastic or the metal plating which we've seen other cities use. Uh I've also heard complaints from people say plastices that are actually having they're they're getting hooked on the buttons as they're trying to traverse. Um just because the province says that it's the um standard doesn't doesn't make it correct. I find a lot of people are misusing them um misinstalling them putting them on top of the surface instead of inlaying them. Um, all of these reasons uh make us a little wary of accepting uh button plates. Um, you mentioned people coming and uh raising issue with it being different. Uh, I've actually had compliments from people with disabilities coming to our city saying, "These things are amazing. I wish we had them." We just had the um synth fusion um uh symposium, the viro fusion symposium down on James Street, and I just had a person from Montreal and a person from Ottawa, both in wheelchairs, come to me separately and say, "These things are amazing." We had a whole conversation on urban braille and they wish they had it in their city. So, one has to wonder, did the accessibility advisory committee in their city not know that this was an option? Was this not discussed with them? Uh, just because other cities have advisory committees doesn't necessarily mean we're all on the same page. Um, so, uh, furthermore, uh, we're supposed to advocate, uh, improvements. So, I mean, if we need to go for variance, then uh, let's advocate for variance. Um, so I don't want to get into too much more because like I said, we're going to have a more of a working group meeting, but I wanted to just specify that that what we have today is is better for many different types of disabilities. It's not just seeing to the one need. Um, so let's work with you and try and and see if we can come up with something better that's better for you to easier to maintain, but at the same time still provides us with the same surface. I know that if button plates go on these sidewalks, I'm going to be on the road. You won't see me on the sidewalks anymore, which means cars are going to have to drive around me on the road now because I don't feel safe on the sidewalks. Uh I have kyoscoliosis. I cannot handle the button plates, especially not in the long term. We accept LRT is going to have them beside them. That's a safety feature. We get that. But even in the LRT and Abdul, we we have these conversation. We don't want button plates on the rest of the platform. So, we are pushing for tactile paving wherever we can. Um so, that's I think that's it. I don't have any questions for you. I think that was just a statement all around. I apologize for ranting a little bit. James, I have an additional comment. Okay, I will take the chair back from Paula and then we'll get back to you. You have the chair, sir. Thank you very much, Paula. Tim. Yeah, thank you. Um, just uh so you know, the the CNIB's clearing the pathway, those guidelines were initiated here in Hamilton. um somebody who worked for the city by the name of Tony Bordonero who lost his eyesight while employed with the city. um uh was a member of the the working group uh along with uh Hoda Kyle who was an architect and engineer um and was uh a staff person with the city of Hamilton at the time. um along with uh Karen Wood who is a mobility instructor from the CNIB um myself as Nibnal a former member of this committee and a handful of other uh staff and um uh uh members of the advisory committee put together the urban braille concept including all of the markings that that exist at intersections for directional um uh support for people with vision loss. Um, and Tony who became a member of the Ontario board for the CNIB at the time, he was the one who introduced the CNIB to the concept of the urban braille design and that was what was uh used by the CNIB to initiate what is now their clearing the pathway document. Uh the downside of that is the CNIB has not uh maintained communication with um members of the city's disability advisory committee um uh and fundamentally me as a vision impaired person who introduced the city to this whole concept in the first place. So Hamilton was unique. Hamilton was the very first community to have any kind of tactile markings on any sidewalk anywhere, not only in this province, but across the entire country. So, if anybody is a leader in this, it's the city of Hamilton. And I think it it is it is important that we remain the leader in this stuff and that um uh uh people follow our direction. um uh because we're the ones who uh not only initiated it but we're the ones who uh I think are are best able to um maintain the whole concept of urban braille uh with intersections being a part of that entire process. So anyway, that's what I just wanted to add. Okay, thank you, Tim. Um, okay. I see nobody else on the speakers list. Any closing comments before we wrap this up? Any closing comments? No. Uh, appreciate the input and thank you for having us here. Thank you very much. Uh, we will definitely arrange to have a meeting as soon as we can um and in more detail. Thank you very much for coming. Okay. Um uh moving on uh to 7.3 proposed updates to the street design and furniture standards for the Hamilton LRT corridor. Anna Cruseru, senior project manager, Heritage and Urban Design LRT will present. Anna, good afternoon. Um I will be presenting as James mentioned uh on the behalf of the LRT project office uh the proposed updates to our street design and furniture standards for the LRT corridor. So in terms of an agenda, sorry before I go forward, I just want to make sure that the presentation is showing. It is okay. And I'm struggling to control the move forward part. So in terms of an agenda uh we will provide some background to our discussions with ACPD. We will also clarify what the existing street furniture standards document includes currently. We will go through the feedback we received from ACPD and uh finally we'll identify the solutions we're proposing in response to this feedback. So for background uh staff presented the LRT3 design and furniture standards to the LRT subcommittee in February 2025. At that time they were accepted by Metroinkings to be delivered as part of the Hamilton LRT project. At that time the ACPD delegation noted concerns with the proposed furniture models uh and their installation. Um, as a followup, uh, staff met, uh, virtually, uh, with the ACPD representatives on October 1st, 2025. And then, uh, following that um, they looked for, um, uh, additional clarification in a video call in November of the same year. Oops. So the existing standards document for context uh was established in consultation with city staff. It provides reference to existing city standards and guidelines related to streetscape design. Uh it also includes a street furniture catalog with preferred types and models. And our intention for preparing that catalog was to ensure that we'll have consistent streetscape design and um uh furnishing uh throughout the corridor. The standards also provide direction for the preferred placement and frequency of street furniture and that was based on typical walkability metrics. So going back to what we heard from ACPD, uh many concerns were related to the bench models in the standards catalog. We heard that the bench models need higher armrest and an interim armrest for enhanced support leaning into or out of a seat. uh that there is a need for a more robust leg design or a connecting side tap bar to help with detection and that it is important to have a clear zone beside the bench for wheelchairs. We also heard that the backless model from the catalog does not provide sufficient support. Uh but it is considered acceptable if in a mix with accessible options to provide for other users and um also for constraint conditions. The Gallet concrete bench model was found to be too low, lacking support and visual contrast with the context. Um and uh overall throughout these discussions we were also offered um by the ACPD uh representative an example of a supportive bench and a leanto bar as they are installed in the HSR stop at the Queenston Road and Parkdale Road intersection. Uh there were other concerns raised as well. Some were related to bench placement, indicating that more frequent bench installations are needed uh to allow for easy breaks and that they should be minimum 200 and 250 m apart. Uh we also heard that the silver finish of the current bicycle stand uh does not provide enough visual contrast for detection and can be a trip hazard. There were also concerns about planting beds flush with the walking surface, whereas curved edges would help with detection and minimize trip hazards. And there was a concern raised about some types of tree canopies which may generate negative visual impact due to the leaf texture and shadows. Uh it was also noted at that time that the Hamilton urban rail is preferred to other municipalities approach and that the street design should avoid placing vaults or mechanical equipment into the path of travel. Uh we also heard recommendation for the design of transit stops such as avoiding encroachments into the pedestrian clear zone and providing visual guidelines on platforms, avoiding stainless steel finish and instead using high contrast colors for some features. And uh um it was uh recommended to avoid ramps with glass railing which are difficult to see and to provide more wind protection for comfort. Since uh many of the concerns were focused on the bench model, um staff prepared for a bench type assessment by reviewing um some relevant municipal and national standards for street benches uh which are not many. Um so we relied on these standards and the concerns we heard to narrow down a few key criteria. Um accessibility um was one of them based on seat armrest and back rest height as well as the design at the ground level. So the way the bench meets the ground level configuration flexibility which is important in what we expect will be a constrained corridor. design, theme and style. Uh knowing that we look for a simple and contemporary style to match the uh future streetscape along the corridor and um uh very importantly also ease of maintenance. Um so using these criteria uh staff looked at the eight typical bench models available from regional vendors. The selection included a mo a modified model of the magine bench we previously listed in our standards catalog. Um we reached the manufacturer and they were able to provide a model that has one end armrest uh an interim armrest set about 2 ft apart and no armrest at the other end of the bench. Uh so based on this assign assessment uh we found that three models met the highest score. It was uh the modified magine bench with the interim arm and no uh armrest at the other end. Uh the riverside bench model that's typically installed here in the city in parks. uh and the NCOM bench uh that's used with some HSR stop um such as the example that was provided to us by uh ACPD. Uh we found that um the Riverside bench is um uh quite um um heavy. It has that um older historic look that did not meet our criteria for um appearance. So the modified maglin bench and the NCCOM uh bench uh seem to offer the most benefits. Um accessibility uh flexible configuration uh they can be provided in shorter uh configurations with or without uh back rests or armrests and they also have a simple and contemporary design. We find that the modified megalin bench uh is a better fit for streetscapes. Um it has a more robust back support for comfort. Um and the NCCOM bench um due to the short back uh that's probably offering um shorter stay support, more uh less comfort in that sense. Uh would be a better fit for transit stops. Um and it's worth mentioning um at this stage that we expect competitive procurement at the implementation stage of the LRT project which uh will very likely consider different models with similar characteristics. So um some of these um um expectations may be um translated in a different model. Um so in terms of uh solutions and revisions we are proposing replacing the currently selected maglin model the one with regular armrests with a reconfigured model. Uh there will also be a recommendation to ensure the accessible model will be prioritized or alternated with other types. So wherever um there is a place for uh installing more benches, every other model will be the accessible one. The NCCOM bench which proves to be a good and supportive fit uh for transit stops uh was provided to Metroinks for information and consideration in relation to LRT stop design. The short backless bench and the galllet concrete seat will be used in constrained areas or in a mix with accessible models um only in a color contrast context. The standards will also recommend more frequent installations on the corridor or where there is um less space on the corridor on side streets and that will be pending availability of space and funding. Regarding the bicycle stands, we understand the active transportation group are pursuing these items separately and our standards will refer to the most current model in use should the group decide to change the design they use based on those discussions. For landscape bed design, the city has updated standards. Um, they require a curb edge. So, we're hoping that's addressing the concern about tripping hazards. Um, regarding the preferred tree species, uh, if needed, uh, the concerns can be addressed, uh, through the forestry group. And again, similar to the bicycle stand, the standards will refer to the most current standards in use. So the most current um street tree species um selection as um defined by the forestry group regarding the urban rail application and avoidance of utilities in the clear path of travel. Uh we're prepared to consider them at the detailed design stage. And finally, um, we shared the ACPD concerns and recommendations for LRT stop design with Metroinks for their consideration. So, this concludes my presentation and we can take your questions now. Thank you very much, Anna. And I do believe we have a speakers list already. Mark is up first. You're muted, Mark. I was going to ask if you could go back to page nine or 10 when it says better fit for a certain environment. How did you arrive at that? You have data to back that up or I think it appears on page nine and 10. Uh yes that is in regard to the NCON bench uh through the chair he was should I share the presentation and the slide perhaps or sure thank So I think uh uh it's at the conclusion here and I can walk back one slide where the model is illustrated. Okay. Um, we had Sorry, I'm just referring to where it says in both of those that uh better fit for streetscape, better fit for transit stops and uh just wondering how you arrive at that. Uh, we had technical sheets that um uh gave us the dimensions for some of the components of the benches. Um, the Maglin bench had the taller back rest. it it was a more substantial back rest uh compared to the NCOM one. Um so theoretically that's supposed to offer more comfort. Um the Maglin bench is also a little bit um more um uh detailed. It's it's uh more um um elegant in a way. Uh whereas the NCO one uh is quite functional in design. Um so overall it felt that um they correspond better to different um um streetscape environments. So depending on how long somebody's going to be using the bench with respect to transit or that that's right and it was really subjective assessments at our end just based on the technical sheets that we assessed. Okay. Thank you. Thanks very much, Mark. Thank you, Anna. Uh, next up we have Leaf. I have a question about the materials that the benches would be made from because from what I've been noticing is that I know with like the concrete and gay galet benches, concrete branches can actually heat up really quickly during like really hot summers or cold winters like we have here in Hamilton. And also another consideration would be like the material of like the the like HSR softbench by Instacom regarding like concerns like if it's be if it's like a metallic it would be more of an issue especially during summers that it would get really hot and uncomfortable to sit on. So I was just wondering like what material consideration would be looked into for regarding the implementation of these uh benches to the chair. Thank you for the question. Um so for the gallet uh stone bench um we expect that um it's it's going to collect and radiate the amount of heat that you would typically get from um similar materials. It's light in color so hopefully there's less uh heat radiation back. Um and uh for um uh benches where you see the metallic uh finishing um we did not have uh the custom the customized u model photo um to illustrate our preferred finish where we would want to see black powder coat for um armrests and uh uh dark uh vinyl recycle. called sorry dark uh polyine recycled slats. The color um was a choice of dictated by um what we hope would make m maintenance easier. Um we expect there will be quite a bit of um um maybe vandalism to some of these benches and we're hoping with a darker color they can withstand that better. Does that answer your question, Leaf? Uh, yes, that answers my question. Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? Anna, if you could please stop sharing. Thank you. Paula, you're muted. Paula, you're muted. Oh, there we go. Sorry. Um, dark colors hold the heat. And I know you're trying to, you know, because the vandalism and that, but somebody's going to sit down and they're going to put their arm on a metal armrest and they're going to get burnt. Um, same if somebody's wearing shorts and you you're going to sit on plastic. I know what it's like when you sit on dark things. God, it hurts, right? So, I don't know what you can do to change that. Um, it's just a comment. Uh the other thing is if you use are you going to use open braille so we can locate the benches if you could answer that question through the chair. Thanks for the question. Um so um uh going back to the color uh we I think part of the the choice in color as I mentioned was ease of maintenance. Um, and we also heard that uh visual contrast is important. So, we were hoping that we're kind of targeting uh both of these concerns with the color. Um, I think we can definitely um uh consider optimizing the finish for for that concerns in in heat. We're hoping the plastic doesn't really heat as as much as uh metal would uh um say black painted metal for some of those um uh bench models that have the metallic slats. So, it was a matter of balancing out all these needs. Um and then going to your second question uh about the visibility or detectability of the benches. The idea is that they would be placed behind the urban braille line in the street furniture zone. Um and that will be um hopefully um uh well defined from our complete street design manual that indicates where the clear path of travel should be marked with urban rail and differentiated by the other from the other zones along the streetscape. Thank you. And I just want to make one comment. Please don't use domes on the platforms because they're terrible. I couldn't find my way anywhere when we went to was it London we went to James the kitchen or I couldn't find Yeah, I couldn't find my way anywhere on that platform. The domes were there on the edge of the platform. Didn't even tell me where the door was or anything. It was terrible. Absolutely terrible. So, please don't do that. That's all I'm going to say. Oh, sorry. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Okay. Uh Paula, if you can take the chair for a minute. Yes, sir. I take the chair. Uh I just want to confirm something that the Gallet benches the basically the gray pebbles, they are going to be on a darker surface if they are used. Correct. Correct. Uh we are preparing to edit the text to indicate that condition for their placement. Okay. Thank you. Uh and now further to Paula's question, you mentioned that the uh benches with the very small spindly legs are going to be behind the urban braille markings. How would a person with vision loss find the bench if they wanted to so use the bench? Um is there going to be uh any sort of marking or indicator in front of the bench saying this is a bench sort of thing or Uh we were hoping that the urban rail application would be uh indicating there's a special zone outside of that clear path of travel where some of these pieces of furniture would be pre present and um hopefully the color contrast may help as well in that direction. Okay. Um my concern is it's uh you're saying that it's going to be indicating this is going to be a seating area sort of thing. So there' be an indicator along the urban bath, the urban braille pathway saying this is, you know, a special area. How would somebody find um say example the the first bench, I can't remember the name of it, the spindly legged one. How would they find that if they went into the seating area? um if they were using their white cane to detect it. I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that other than expecting that um there's there's just the the maybe reduced presence that's offered by the u the leg dimension and scale. Uh may I make a recommendation then? Um, I've noticed in some benches that they actually do put a textured uh strip just in front of the bench so that somebody with a white cane can detect it and say, "Oh, this is the bench here." And and can feel it and then seat themselves. I think that's a that's a good um recommendation and uh perhaps I can reach out to you after this meeting or to your group to hear more about those options. Okay. Thank you. I do believe we discussed it, but I I just wanted to get get back. Okay. Thank you very much. And that is for me. I am done. I will take it back. Paula, you have the chair. So, thank you very much. Is there anybody else for question or comment um for Anna on the LRT street design or street design in general? I'm seeing none. Okay. Thank you very much, Anna and uh Elenni and Abdul. Thank you very much for coming. Appreciate it. Thank you for giving us the spot. Thank you. Okay. Uh, next up is 7.4. I will have to relinquish the chair Paula. Yes, sir. Uh, 7.4 was built environment working group. Okay. Uh, there was no built environment working group uh meeting because that would have been today. So, unfortunately uh built environment will have to be rescheduled for May. Will Oh, I can't ask a question. Sorry. Uh, you can ask a question. Okay. I just want to know if these topics will be at built environment. Uh, I believe this would be a great place for this topic and the previous topic uh to be that's what I'm thinking. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Next. Oh, anybody have any question? Oh, there's no questions because you didn't have a meeting. Next thing I don't have a an agenda, James. I got home late. Anyway, what's next? Uh, next up is housing working group. Yes. And there was no housing working group uh meeting this month. Unfortunately, I had a pretty bad injury so I had to cancel that one. Okay, sir. Next. Thank you. Uh, outreach working group. Um, we did have a couple of meetings. uh first meeting we had the uh volunteer recruitment drive discussion and giving an update. Uh currently as of today we have 126 people registered uh to be volunteers. Uh our advertising campaign was quite effective. Um I've also sent out a secondary survey um asking of you know dates and times people would like to have an information session meeting and I believe Sunil and I are looking at scheduling that for the third week of April. uh currently already have 26 people that have signed up to do the information sessions. If any member would like to participate in the information sessions, maybe provide information or context uh as we explain what we do to these uh people before they they commit uh please let me know and we will arrange to have you attend as well either virtually or in person. Uh next up uh for outreach um we discussed uh the onboarding process about uh anybody that's uh new uh to volunteer also has to be aware of the code of conduct aware of the volunteer handbook. They don't have to sign off on it but as we operate under that they they also have to be aware that they will need to operate under that as well. So we discussed that as well. Uh the next meeting at outreach we uh thoroughly went through I imagin's engaging with care report um uh which we found um excellent as a school report. We found she did a great job. Um as a as a city report though it's going to take a bit of work. It's a great uh starting point and building block. Um but there needs to be more perspective wider perspective and not all people's needs are being met currently in the list. So, it just it's more work in progress. So, that's what we came up with. That was outreach. Uh, can I ask a question, James? Mhm. Um, the volunteers, do they have to have police checks? No, they do not. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Next is um strategic planning and there was no strategic planning meeting. Uh we are going to have to set up a meeting later this month so that we can start going through the terms of reference. Okay. Okay. And I will take back the chair. You have the chair. So thank you very much Paula. Uh 7.8 transportation working group update a accessible transportation services performance review Q4 2025. That would be you Paula. Yes. Do you have anything to add to that? No, I I I No, I don't I don't have anything actually. No, I don't have anything. It was all in that big report too that Michelle did. It was all combined, right? All the all the porters. Um the last meeting I believe Tim chaired it. So I don't have I don't know what went on at that meeting. So Okay. Thank you. I haven't seen the notes. So Okay. Thank you, Paul. Uh, okay. And next is 7.9 open spaces and parklands working group update. I don't imagine there's an update, Tim. No, there has not been a meeting and my last communication with um uh uh Megan Stewart uh was that uh the staff are still reviewing the report that they've now had in their possession for about a year and a half. So, I don't know where that's at. I'm going to let it go for another month or two, maybe, and then I'll be reach back out to Megan. So, that's the status. Okay. Thank you very much, Tim. So, may I please have a mover and a second receives item 7.1 to 7.9 together? Mark seconded by Levi. Thank you, Levi. Um, is there any discussion on any of these items beyond what we've already discussed? Seeing none. Okay. Is there anybody opposed to approving all of these items? I'm seeing none. That is carried. Thank you very much. Uh, and I'm told I have to relinquish the chair again um for 9.1. Okay. 9.1 is sorry is uh attendance at the senior's kickoff information and wellness fair. Yes. Okay James all yours. So I've moved it. It will need a seconder. You'll need to call for a second. Paul Oh sorry. Yes. Can I have a seconder for the uh for the motion that uh James has put forward about uh having a table at the uh CVS kickoff, please? Somebody's going to put their hand up. Councelor Tatter. Seconded by Councelor Tatter. Thank you, Council Tatter. Um do we have any discussion on this, James? Uh, no. I'm just going to read the therefore be it resolved. I don't think we This is the standard motion we do every year. So, therefore, be it resolved that the accessibility committee for person with disabilities approves two members of the outreach working group to attend the seniors kickoff information and wellness fair on June 11, 2026 and that the registration fee of $75 be funded from account 3000303. Okay. Thank you. Um, does it have to be the outreach? Anybody anybody on the committee wants to volunteer that that's absolutely fine. Uh I just just need to let me know ahead of time so we can uh make arrangements. Okay. So uh do we vote first and then ask for people or We don't need to ask for people right now. Okay. Okay then. So, uh, all anybody opposed to this motion? Not seeing any. Seeing none. Okay, then the motion is passed. And get in touch with James if you want to help. I can't. I'm I'm doing dogs again. So, absolutely. All right. Would have helped you, James. Thank you, Paula. I will take back the chair. You have the chair, sir. All right. Thank you very much. Um, all right. General information, other business. Is there any general information or other business people would like to bring up or discuss at this time? I am seeing none. Uh, James, yes. Go ahead, Paul. Can I give you just a little um good news item kind of on accessibility? By all means. By all means. So, I have a friend who took her husband out for dinner uh the other day to a a um place in Lancaster called the Checkered Flag. She called, she's in a wheelchair. Um and she said she wanted to go there and have dinner and it was her husband's birthday. So, when she got there, the tables are all hightop tables, right? They had been out and bought a table that they put together with the chairs, two chairs, but she didn't need the chair and uh made it accessible for her. They also bought Mark and her husband a cake. But I thought that was amazing that they went over and above. It's a little tiny place. I don't know. I've never been to it, but it's a little tiny place. I guess it's family run place, but they went out and bought this table and chair so she could go there for her husband's birthday. I thought that was over and above accessibility. Well, that's fantastic here. Thank you very much, Paula. I like that. So, the checkered flag, anybody? They go above and beyond. Mount Hope. Yes. Mount Hope. Excellent. Thank you very much, Paula. Is there any other general information, other business? Paul, if you just take it for a moment. Yes, sir. Um, I am uh speaking to the seniors advisory committee on Friday regarding snow removal. They have a motion up on um improving enforcement of snow removal of private properties. I'll also be going there to discuss um the city's responsibilities regarding snow clearing and um their lack thereof. And uh we're also speaking about collaboration. So, I just want to put that on people's radar that hopefully we can work with uh seniors advisory committee and maybe we can get their uh opinion on the tactile plates as well while we're at it. Not I don't mean at the meeting itself. I um and that's it for me. I'll take back the chair. You have the chair. Thank you, Mark. Can I just confirm that the uh the expo visit is next Tuesday? Sorry, my apologies, Mark. Yes, I should have reminded uh people that the transit expo will be next Tuesday. It's why we moved the meeting. Uh so currently I have Mark, Paula, myself, and Jake uh who had to step out so I can't confirm with him yet. Um we'll be going. Uh so it should be a good time. uh we should be able to speak with the suppliers for the city and some of the equipment and maybe and try and work with them on why it uh is not doing it for us. And uh if you need to call for a ride from darts, make sure you call today or tonight. Good idea. Thank you very much, Mark. Okay. And if that's it, uh then I am going to call it. There being no further business, this meeting is now adjourned at 5:37. Thank you very much everybody. I really do appreciate you coming out and all your assistants. And I want to thank staff who are still left for coming out as well. Thank you very much everybody. Have a great have a great night. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everybody. Good night to everybody. Thanks everybody. Good night. Wait.

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